S01.E08: RICO

[duVerre]

 

He was the mail boy and on his rounds, basically everyone he tried to interact with was on the phone and too busy to talk to him, they gave him little wave-offs and no one actually talked to him, no one actually had any meaningful interaction with him. It seemed like he was the somewhat annoying lackey whom no one really liked

 

To me, the bottom line is: if a company has to hire a mail boy (mail person?--I'll use mail boy for Jimmy), it's because there's so much mail that it's always being sorted and delivered. By definition, there isn't a lot of time for him to chew the fat.

 

I worked for ten years at a place where the mail boy trundled by my office twice a day. He knew my name and would always say something cheerful as he tossed the envelopes into my in-tray. And yes, I was always on the phone or up to my neck in something important but I'd give him a nod and a big smile. Gerry usually told me my "teeth looked well"--his aunt was my dentist. The receptionist, who was always taking calls (but nodded) while we passed her on the way out for lunch had the same sort of popularity. So did the cleaner who always told me I worked too hard if I was still at the office when she brought the vacuum. All these people were related to the office but not OF the office--they carried none of the intrigue. Because of that, moments with them were kind of like moments when the sun came out. However crazy things got for me on the office phone or on its computer, I could count on Gerry to smile, wave, say something toothy, and be gone again. And, from his point of view, he had to keep moving--those mail jobs are like serving fast food.

 

So I didn't see any dislike for Jimmy--just a typical and comfortable situation for all.

 

[ToastnBacon]

My fanwank for this at the moment is that between now and then he's been forced (somehow) to represent so many criminals that he's given up on making more reasonable recommendations and just goes straight to the ones he believes his clients are going to want, based on past experience. You know, for efficiency.

I'd say that everyone in the BB and BCS universe is flawed to some degree. No one is completely clean, nor have we seen a character who is definately a villian that didn't display a moment of tenderness or an element of fairness.

Even the jerk Nazi uncle let Walter have a barrel of cash.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that these characters tend to be a bit more complex than the good and bad guys from 1950s TV westerns. You can't judge them by the color of their cowboy hat.

While I like Jimmy, I am not ripping my clothes off and wanting to go to bed with him like some of the females are in this thread.

He is certainly an endearing character and one that I'll continue to watch, but damn! Let's parachute down from cloud cuckoo land.

Just because he used the old lady's reading glasses to see the micro print on the back of the nursing home bill, isn't a reason to toss your bra and panties at the TV.

Admittedly, I don't normally wear a bra and panties because I'm a dude, but if I did, it would take a little more than that to get me out of them.

I would probably just slip him an extra Hydrox cookie or let him have my green jello.

[Umbelina]

I think the comments are more about how shocking it is that Jimmy is actually somewhat appealing, which is a credit to both the actor, and to the writing.  If you saw a photo of him you'd hardly throw your panties, and if you knew a guy like that in real life?  Ditto.

 

What makes him appealing is his intelligence, his wit, his persistence, resilience, his basic decency, and also a bit of the kicked-puppy syndrome.  Who doesn't want to pick up that puppy and cuddle him?  I get it.

 

More and more we've seen Jimmy try to be accepted into the "lawful" world of the "Haves."  Yes, he has a past, but he's also worked his butt off to try to rise above that.  Every single time he does someone kicks him in the face to push him back down where he belongs.  "Not our class, dear."  Do we really believe the people at HMM have a higher moral code than Jimmy?  Nope, but they have the trappings.

 

My guess is that we'll finally see Jimmy accept that they will never admit him into their world, so he will make one of his own.  Frankly, though Jimmy's criminals are certainly of a lower class, do I really think they are "worse" than the people HMM represents?  Nope.  They just have less money, and worse clothes.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Umbelina

[Ailianna]

I worked for ten years at a place where the mail boy trundled by my office twice a day. He knew my name and would always say something cheerful as he tossed the envelopes into my in-tray. And yes, I was always on the phone or up to my neck in something important but I'd give him a nod and a big smile. Gerry usually told me my "teeth looked well"--his aunt was my dentist. The receptionist, who was always taking calls (but nodded) while we passed her on the way out for lunch had the same sort of popularity. So did the cleaner who always told me I worked too hard if I was still at the office when she brought the vacuum. All these people were related to the office but not OF the office--they carried none of the intrigue. Because of that, moments with them were kind of like moments when the sun came out. However crazy things got for me on the office phone or on its computer, I could count on Gerry to smile, wave, say something toothy, and be gone again. And, from his point of view, he had to keep moving--those mail jobs are like serving fast food.

And there are people like that where I work too. And I do try to make a point to speak to them if they have time, say hi, ask how the kids/husband/weekend is, and so on. But there's a difference to a lot of people between the various levels of "support" (from janitors to mailclerks to secretaries) and the people who have actual offices.

Just saying, not everyone wants the mail boy to move into the office next door and start making the same money and doing your job. Classism is still alive and well in this country.

[duVerre]

 

Just saying, not everyone wants the mail boy to move into the office next door and start making the same money and doing your job

 

Oh, that's definitely true. Where I worked, I had actually moved up to management from typing. I had the support of everybody, absolutely everybody .... except one person. He didn't treat me like a lackey when I was in a lesser position, but after I moved up, he couldn't stop reminding me of what a lackey I had been just a year before.  

 

I guess we just disagree about how the HHM staff was treating Jimmy as he came with the mail cart. 

[ToastnBacon]

What makes him appealing is his intelligence, his wit, his persistence, resilience, his basic decency, and also a bit of the kicked-puppy syndrome. Who doesn't want to pick up that puppy and cuddle him? I get it.

Yes, I get it too.

It is just that a couple of those comments upthread are so syrupy and saccharin that they made me feel uncomfortable.

I had to post something to cut the overly sweet images before I went into hyperglycemic shock.

Lampooning those posts with images of women ripping their clothes off and tossing their underwear at the TV was all I could come up with.

Your cuddling-the-kicked-puppy image is just about right.

Thanks, I feel better now.

Edited March 29, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[DrSpaceman]

Overall I would still say while I have enjoyed this season of Better Call Saul and I will keep watching, it still was not what I expected and I would still prefer a faster progression from Jimmy to Saul and not an entire series spent around that transformation alone. I still think overall its been kind of a bait and switch by VG, I tuned in expecting Saul and have been given instead mostly Jimmy.

[ToastnBacon]

Overall I would still say while I have enjoyed this season of Better Call Saul and I will keep watching, it still was not what I expected and I would still prefer a faster progression from Jimmy to Saul and not an entire series spent around that transformation alone. I still think overall its been kind of a bait and switch by VG, I tuned in expecting Saul and have been given instead mostly Jimmy.

I'm betting we see the emergence of Saul within the first few episodes of season two.

I didn't mind it because I think they needed to show where he came from, and it was an interesting season.

[Ronin Jackson]

Overall I would still say while I have enjoyed this season of Better Call Saul and I will keep watching, it still was not what I expected and I would still prefer a faster progression from Jimmy to Saul and not an entire series spent around that transformation alone. I still think overall its been kind of a bait and switch by VG, I tuned in expecting Saul and have been given instead mostly Jimmy.

It's not what I was expecting either, but I disagree it's a bait and switch. It's VG and PG knowing what they are doing. I am so much more fascinated by Saul by learning about Jimmy... and it's going to make the transformation that much more rewarding. I think there will be plenty of Saul by the time it's over and we'll have a much better understanding of who he is. It's a little like a parent making a kid eat vegetables when the kid wants to skip straight to ice cream. The parent knows best, and so do VG and PG. And you'll still like the ice cream when you get it.

[ToastnBacon]

It's not what I was expecting either, but I disagree it's a bait and switch. It's VG and PG knowing what they are doing. I am so much more fascinated by Saul by learning about Jimmy... and it's going to make the transformation that much more rewarding. I think there will be plenty of Saul by the time it's over and we'll have a much better understanding of who he is. It's a little like a parent making a kid eat vegetables when the kid wants to skip straight to ice cream. The parent knows best, and so do VG and PG. And you'll still like the ice cream when you get it.

LOL!

I agree with you, but weren't you a little hard on the Beaver?

He simply hates asparagus and I'm hoping you deliver with some kind of good ice cream and not any of that weird grownup ice cream like rum raisin or daiquiri ice.

The Beaver thinks those raisins look like flies trapped in the ice cream.

[Umbelina]

I have a feeling Saul emerges by the end of this season.  I've always felt that way, so we shall see!

[cbob]

Glad to have found these forums!

 

My 2 cents:

The opening really reinforced the idea that Chuck will probably never see Jimmy as anything more than a screw-up little brother. I'm not saying that he doesn't love Jimmy, but that relationship dynamic in real life is really hard to change. And Chuck has to be what, 10 years older than Jimmy? So they've never interacted as peers even growing up. I find it hard to believe he couldn't have found Jimmy work there as a glorified paralegal. 

 

As mentioned on the podcast, it is worth noting that we have nothing, except Jimmy's belief, to demonstrate that Hamiln is really a bad guy (though he definitely seems douche-y).

And we also have nothing, except Jimmy's belief, to show that Chuck is actually is of high character.

 

I'm not saying he's malingering, but I wouldn't be surprised if Chuck's illness developed at the same time he was getting much too deep into something he shouldn't have been doing.

 

Also, I think it is a little curious that Chuck didn't realize what he was doing when he opened the mailbox to get the key fob. You'd think it would dawn on him then WHY it was in the mailbox.

 

Count me in the boat of people saying that Chuck is going to betray Jimmy over this case. And that is a major turning point (then, watch Nacho show up at the end of episode 10).

[Starchild]

I'm hoping we get 3-5 seasons covering Jimmy, then some of Saul's missing scenes during his time with Walter and Jesse, and finally Gene starting over with a newly-rebranded degree from the University of American Samoa.

[SoSueMe]

I never viewed Saul as a bad guy on BB. To quote the great movie Galaxy quest, he was the spunky comic relief.

Certainly he was much different then than what we have seen on this show. He wasn't above crossing the line to help launder money, though my guess is he would try and justify that by just saying all he did was help Walter and Skylar buy the business to launder the money, actually doing it was all up to them.

Thank you, seriously. I never really saw him in BB (I saw only a few episodes) and I have been really worried that when he becomes Saul he will lose all of Jimmy. Maybe not completely from the sound of your post :)

[ToastnBacon]

I have a feeling Saul emerges by the end of this season.  I've always felt that way, so we shall see!

Only two episodes left, right?

I guess they could wrap up this story line and we see Saul emerge at the end of the finale.

I'm really looking forward to watching him write and produce his crazy Better Call Saul commercials.

Have you watched that Junior Brown video on YouTube yet? http://youtu.be/mGsC_LO3oFY

[ghoulina]

I never really saw Saul as a bad guy on BB either, but one thing I keep in mind is - we really just saw him dealing with bad guys. I would judge shady behavior with criminals much differently than I would shady behavior with "good" people. Who knows? Maybe there is still a Jimmy in there, helping people who really need it, funded by his dealings with criminals?

[DrSpaceman]

I'm hoping we get 3-5 seasons covering Jimmy, then some of Saul's missing scenes during his time with Walter and Jesse, and finally Gene starting over with a newly-rebranded degree from the University of American Samoa.

 

 

I hope it doesn't take that long.  Again I like the show, but the show is named "Better Call Saul".  A whole season in and the only glimpse we have seen of Saul is a few scenes here and there.  The idea of a spinoff was created I think based around the Saul character, his interactions, his potential with other clients, not Jimmy.   

 

If the whole show was going to be about Jimmy rather than Saul, should have named it something else, that is all.That is why I made my "bait and switch" comment.  

[Dobian]

Glad to have found these forums!

 

My 2 cents:

The opening really reinforced the idea that Chuck will probably never see Jimmy as anything more than a screw-up little brother. I'm not saying that he doesn't love Jimmy, but that relationship dynamic in real life is really hard to change. And Chuck has to be what, 10 years older than Jimmy? So they've never interacted as peers even growing up. I find it hard to believe he couldn't have found Jimmy work there as a glorified paralegal.

I think Chuck might be closer to 20 years older than Jimmy.  He was probably the product of a first marriage, Jimmy the second.  Unless they said they have the same two parents, I forget.  I think in that meeting with the retirement home lawyers, Chuck might have gone mute on purpose to test Jimmy, see what he was made of.  And Jimmy passed the test.  Up until that case I agree that he still thought of Jimmy as his screw-up little brother, but now he's starting to respect him more.

 

BCS is also branching off into a different kind of show than BB.  After the first couple of episodes I thought it was going down the same path, bringing in Tuco and his friends right away.  I thought Jimmy was going to be getting more and more caught up in the world of drug gangs.  But it seems like they are just bit players in this story.  Which is okay, I like the direction the show is taking.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Dobian

[RustbeltWriter]

I don't understand how Jimmy can have a practice and not have access to Westlaw. Shepardizing is essential for preparing arguments.

[VegetasMom]

I don't understand how Jimmy can have a practice and not have access to Westlaw. Shepardizing is essential for preparing arguments.

He's working out of his brother's house - no electricity/computer to access it.  He could have probably gone to his broom closet office at the nail place but it was probably easier to make a phone call.   He'll probably end up wishing he had done that. 

[Nashville]

Have you watched that Junior Brown video on YouTube yet? http://youtu.be/mGsC_LO3oFY

That.

Was.

GREAT.

[SlackerInc]

I think Jimmy did have a reasonable expectation that he could be hired there, simply because Kim had been.  She may not have graduated from the same (accredited) institution, but she started off in the mailroom. 

 

What is the basis for saying Kim started in the mailroom?  I see this being said over and over, but unless I missed a line of dialogue, I think this is just an unverified assumption.  I know HHM paid for her to go to law school, but that in itself does not mean she was a mailroom worker.  And I'm 99% certain she was not working in the mailroom at the time of the flashback when they were eating cake.  She was just in there celebrating with him; she had been shown just earlier with her own office (albeit a crappy one, probably in the "cornfield"), telling Jimmy she was busy.

 

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Jimmy was popular at HHM. He was the mail boy and on his rounds, basically everyone he tried to interact with was on the phone and too busy to talk to him, they gave him little wave-offs and no one actually talked to him, no one actually had any meaningful interaction with him. It seemed like he was the somewhat annoying lackey whom no one really liked, but everyone just put up with as long as he was delivering mail and not getting too pushy about trying to be "friends."

 

Huh, I'm not saying they want to nominate him for man of the year, but what I saw was a greater degree of friendliness than would be expected from people who are just "putting up" with him and being polite.

[ShadowFacts]

I am fairly certain there was a line of dialogue, maybe spoken by Kim herself, that refers to her having been in the mailroom, but I can't point to it.  I do know it was mentioned in a video on the AMC website, by one of the writers or producers.  And yes, she was already an associate when Jimmy passed the bar exam. 

[SeanC]

Maybe they do things differently in New Mexico, but generally speaking in common law jurisdictions a will needs to be witnessed.  Where were the two witnesses who would have been necessary to sign the will as well in the scene where Jimmy visits the old lady?

[RedHairedGirl]

Hi, everyone!
I'm watching episode 8 and I'm not really sure whether I understood Jimmy when he says "I'm all Hydrox'd out" to mrs Landry?
Could anyone explain it to me?
Does it mean he has had enough of Hydrox or is it a kind of joke?
Thank you!
 :)

[Quilt Fairy]

Does it mean he has had enough of Hydrox or is it a kind of joke?

 

Yes, and yes. Hydrox are a brand of cookies, and "I'm all Hydroxed out" is a snarky (i.e., typical Jimmy McGill) way of saying he doesn't want another cookie.

[LilJen]

On 3/23/2015 at 11:29 PM, Umbelina said:

Intelligence and humor are always sexy.

Definitely. I am also liking the gravelly voice for some reason. Count me also in the pick-up-the-wounded-puppy-and-cuddle-it team.

On 3/24/2015 at 4:03 PM, Blakeston said:

I think that's somewhat different than this. We're supposed to believe that it was standard practice (possibly at 12 different nursing homes) to charge outrageous prices for common items, and put the outrageous prices right on the allowance paperwork the residents received. And that a whole lot more than $100,000 was involved...but the scam wasn't noticed until Jimmy came along.

If it was just one employee stealing $100,000 by using fake receipts, I could believe that. And I could believe a huge scam like this more easily if it was a hospital that used confusing billing codes. A whole lot of people don't pay for hospital bills out of pocket, so they're a lot less inclined to follow up.

I'm not saying this is some absurd plot hole that ruins the show for me. But the scope of it seems a bit extreme.

Sounds like hospital bills. Only q-tips were listed as 118-6 (or something like that) and the codes detailed in fine print that nobody could read. And who is gonna take the time to figure all that stuff out? Very few would.

On 3/25/2015 at 5:28 PM, ALenore said:

The explanation of how Jimmy got his law degree made me respect him even more than before.   I assumed the "University of American Samoa" law school was something like the medical school on Granada.  I figured that Jimmy paid his way to a "party school" where he spent all his free time on the beach drinking rum.  But it turns out he put himself through law school, didn't get to spend any time on the beach, and kept it a secret from everyone but Kim. 

I dunno. It hardly matters what law school you go to. If you pass your state's bar, you are licensed to practice law. And it's not uncommon to fail once or twice before passing.

On 3/25/2015 at 9:05 PM, peggy06 said:

I know what you mean. I generally avoid previews. But don't despair. Sometimes the previews can be misleading, being out of context so to speak. And the post is one person's interpretation of something they saw or think they saw. Who knows?

I am one who never watched Breaking Bad, so I know zippo about any of all that, so it's kind of annoying to hear about Saul and what he does and what Mike does on BB. But, hey, widely watched show that aired in previous years, so, oh well.

[Anela]

I felt bad for Jimmy, because he really does want to help, and do the right thing, but the. main thing from this episode, for me, was that Mike went dirty again, because of his daughter-in-law. He told the vet he that he didn’t need any contacts for jobs, and then she says the money in the bag, was just a drop in the bucket.  She knew what she was asking.  

[Lalo Lives]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:09 PM, LilJen said:

Definitely. I am also liking the gravelly voice for some reason. Count me also in the pick-up-the-wounded-puppy-and-cuddle-it team.

Sounds like hospital bills. Only q-tips were listed as 118-6 (or something like that) and the codes detailed in fine print that nobody could read. And who is gonna take the time to figure all that stuff out? Very few would.

I dunno. It hardly matters what law school you go to. If you pass your state's bar, you are licensed to practice law. And it's not uncommon to fail once or twice before passing.

I am one who never watched Breaking Bad, so I know zippo about any of all that, so it's kind of annoying to hear about Saul and what he does and what Mike does on BB. But, hey, widely watched show that aired in previous years, so, oh well.

Give BB a shot. It’s pretty good.