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S01.E08: RICO


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I know there will be trouble with Jimmy getting the 20 million but maybe there will be some type of twist because technically Chuck is doing this pro bono. Not sure of the particulars on that but something for me to think about. It would be great for that dick Hamlin to think he's getting the best of Jimmy only to lose it on an overlooked law or provision.

Love this show! Only 2 left!

We don't know that Chuck is doing this pro bono, do we?

 

I don't think he'd handle a case this huge for free, the way he did with the cases in the box Jimmy left at his house. And Kim didn't say that Chuck is only allowed to do pro bono cases outside the firm - just that the part of his contract that deals with him working elsewhere was meant for things like pro bono cases.

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This show really is barreling headlong toward being included in the "best show on tee vee" conversation. It's not quite there yet, but it sure does look headed in that direction.

 

I thought the dumpster scene was Classic Gilligan. Fortunately, I've never been in that kind of situation myself, but I couldn't help but to cringe through the whole thing because it was just so visceral. I found myself holding my breath at times because whatever Jimmy must have been smelling at the time... and then just looking at the state of his clothes... then he gets another couple bags dumped right on his head, and he's got schmutz on his freakin' mouth! UGH! So nasty. And on a different/lesser show, it wouldn't have fazed me at all. Just something that happened. But, as was so often the case with BB, Gilligan is able to just NAIL a nerve with something that otherwise might be largely insignificant, or played off for comedy, or... I don't know, something. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that he can (and I'd wager deliberately does... it's kinda his thing) turn something that shouldn't be compelling in any way, and somehow manages to hit you with it powerfully, even if it's just a visceral gut reaction. A cringe.

 

I'm having a tough time reading Chuck's behavior at the meeting with the opposing counsel. (Again, Classic Gilligan.) On one hand, Chuck seemed kinda comatose, like he was frozen with fear and/or doubt and whatever neuroses he's got going on. That's what I thought was happening at the time. And then, for whatever reason, he kinda snapped out of it right before the $20MM counteroffer. But then, on further reflection, I was wondering if that was Chuck at his absolute best. Like, that's just what he does, it's his typical style. The wheels were turning the whole time. He just lurks there while others do the talking, and he listens, and thinks, and waits, and thinks, and then BOOM. He hits you. That's clearly what happened in this instance, but the question I can't answer yet is whether he "snapped out of" something at the last minute, or if he was "on" right from the minute he walked into that room and was just waiting for the perfect time to strike. I hope it's the latter.

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Wordy McWord and Hallelujah Chorus!!

 

(Assuming the host did indeed mean "avoiding fanservice".  And if the host didn't, I might co-opt that interpretation on their behalf.)  More shows have had their integrity ruined by "writing to the fans", rather than "telling the story we need to tell", than I want to count up on my fingers right now.

 

Agreed.  I would be interested in learning which podcast this is and listening to that segment myself as I'm at somewhat of a loss to understand the complaint (assuming it's a complaint).

 

A little point I thought was interesting, from the AV Club writeup: "Fans of Breaking Bad minutiae will remember that Saul had a diploma from this (non-existent) university in his office, but with the name 'Saul Goodman' on it."  So is there a way to explain this other than broken continuity?  Could Jimmy have actually legally changed his name, and then asked the university to give him a new diploma under his new name?  Or if Saul was just a nom de lawyer, could he have dummied up a version of the diploma with Saul Goodman on it--and if so, would that be legal?

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i had a hard time buying that no one ever noticed all that money missing from all 12 of those old folks home until Jimmy came along.

 

I mean all their families never asked them about money?

The people at the facility would be in a position to know which residents have very involved family members and which are more isolated. They could then only overbill the patients who are least likely to have someone looking out for them.

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Wow Howard, you were kind of a dick from day one. . . Way to take away from Jimmy's only best day in, like, forever. We don't even know what you said but yet we know you took the definition of "dick" to a whole new level.

Because the scene was shot from outside the room, I kept expecting it to end with the cake going SPLAT! against the glass after Jimmy hurled it there.  It would have been a classic Gilligan shot and would have mirrored Walt's pizza on the roof.

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i had a hard time buying that no one ever noticed all that money missing from all 12 of those old folks home until Jimmy came along.

I mean all their families never asked them about money?

 

I watched my mother's money very closely when she was in a senior's residence and then a nursing home. Her friends at those facilities shook their heads in amazement. My hunch is that many children just like to know that their parent is somewhere relatively respectable for their final years, and are so relieved when the place offers different packages (like allowances) that they check that box and feel like a huge weight's been taken off. There's a lot of guilt and anxiety around putting your parent in a residence, and most people don't want to look a gift horse (the senior's home taking care of everything) in the mouth. 

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I can't help but feel a little sad whenever I see Jimmy and Chuck interact.  Forgive me for stating what may be obvious, but in that interaction, I see in Jimmy a guy who's desperate to earn the respect of his brother.  And sadly, in Chuck I see someone who in unwilling to completely give that respect -- he is always looking down on Jimmy, subtly or sometimes unsubtly.  He can't get past seeing his brother as the little criminal screw-up.  And that lack of respect manifests itself in a hundred little ways.

 

So true, and it is cracking my heart a little.  When he had to ask Chuck if he was proud, and then when he wanted to be hired and Chuck said, "As what?"  Chuck gets his digs in, including this episode when he talks about being Tom Sawyer'ed (I knew there was a mixed motive there), and says he should hire a paralegal and stand on his own two feet.  Jimmy just brushes it off, self-sufficiency is a virtue, blah blah blah, he's so used to it.

 

I'm not good at puzzles, I cannot even imagine reconstructing shredded documents.  So I'll forgive Chuck his snappy comments this time.  I was glad to see him out in the sunshine, and to the question above, no he did not keel over after dropping the box, just continued standing there.

 

Was Mike making a flower out of the yellow Play-Doh? A little Georgia O'Keefe nod?  I think that Stacey should have gotten more than a meager death benefit as the widow of a cop killed in the line of duty.  I kind of didn't like the way she was working Mike there. 

 

 

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I watched my mother's money very closely when she was in a senior's residence and then a nursing home. Her friends at those facilities shook their heads in amazement. My hunch is that many children just like to know that their parent is somewhere relatively respectable for their final years, and are so relieved when the place offers different packages (like allowances) that they check that box and feel like a huge weight's been taken off. There's a lot of guilt and anxiety around putting your parent in a residence, and most people don't want to look a gift horse (the senior's home taking care of everything) in the mouth. 

definitely, most children/family probably wouldn't notice... but we're talking about 12 homes over several states which must house thousands of seniors... SOMEONE would have noticed...

 

She didn't even have enough money to pay Jimmy, yet she had pension & SSI... she had no problem telling Jimmy her struggles, i'm sure she would have just as easily told her family.

 

Besides, not all old people are just completely oblivious to everything around them...

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What happened in the very last shot? I wasn't sure where to focus, then I heard a thud. Did Chuck drop the box? 

Yes, he dropped the box. It was a very long and dimly lit shot, and I was terrified that we were hearing Chuck fall down, so I rewound and watched it again.

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We don't know that Chuck is doing this pro bono, do we?

Not sure but I thought Jimmy told that to Kim on the phone while trying to get her to copy the files. I erased it so I can't check but maybe someone has a better memory. Even if it's not pro bono, I think there will be a battle over the money so that it screws around with Hamlin, at least. It looks like Chuck is going to fight more in person, according to the previews.

I like the Chuck/Jimmy dynamic and storyline so I hope I get to see a good payout against Hamlin that really pisses Hamlin off.

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Yes, he dropped the box. It was a very long and dimly lit shot, and I was terrified that we were hearing Chuck fall down, so I rewound and watched it again.

It was shot to invite the viewer to fear the worst about the box dropping, but I suspect we'll be seeing Chuck and Jimmy hugging rather than Chuck having collapsed.

 

 

I was thinking "No Jimmy, don't go in there, there's gotta be another bin just for paper right around the corner", but he wasn't listening...

I think it would have made more sense if the bins had been the dark green recycling color that was more typical in 2002; how did he missing seeing bright blue ones?

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I watched my mother's money very closely when she was in a senior's residence and then a nursing home. Her friends at those facilities shook their heads in amazement. My hunch is that many children just like to know that their parent is somewhere relatively respectable for their final years, and are so relieved when the place offers different packages (like allowances) that they check that box and feel like a huge weight's been taken off. There's a lot of guilt and anxiety around putting your parent in a residence, and most people don't want to look a gift horse (the senior's home taking care of everything) in the mouth. 

 

I'm sure a lot of senior citizens are like the woman in the episode - relieved that someone else is handling their finances. But there are also a lot of old people who will gut you like a fish if you try to mess with their Social Security or their pensions. With the outrageous costs being on their monthly statements (even if they're in tiny writing), I think someone would have caught onto them a long time ago.

 

Plus, unlike some rest homes, a lot of the residents at Sandpiper appear to be quite lucid. And even if they weren't, there's still their families.

 

There may be a real life case like this one (and I'm sure there are real life cases involving rest homes stealing patient's money), but I doubt they played out on this scale, so blatantly.

 

Not sure but I thought Jimmy told that to Kim on the phone while trying to get her to copy the files. I erased it so I can't check but maybe someone has a better memory. Even if it's not pro bono, I think there will be a battle over the money so that it screws around with Hamlin, at least. It looks like Chuck is going to fight more in person, according to the previews.

 

Jimmy said that Chuck's contract allows him to take outside cases. Kim pointed out that the provision was meant to be for pro bono cases, and things like that. Jimmy never told her it was a pro bono case, though.

Edited by Blakeston
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With the outrageous costs being on their monthly statements (even if they're in tiny writing), I think someone would have caught onto them a long time ago.

Nobody noticed that it was common practice for hospitals to do the same thing until one of the TV newsmagazines made a big deal about it. People make assumptions about what a charge is for, rather than try to translate the billing code numbers.

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Is Jimmy working at his brothers firm after he had the law troubles in Chicago or where ever he was before?

 

Slippin' Jimmy got busted for a "simple Chicago sunroof" in 1992—before he started working in the mailroom at HHM. Chuck was wearing a wedding ring in 1992. I forgot to check his hands in this episode.

 

I couldn't quite see what happened in that last shot.  I heard a thump--I'm presuming Chuck dropped the box.  Did anything else happen?  He didn't collapse or anything, did he?

 

Chuck dropped the box, then the episode ended. It would've been quite suspenseful—except that we saw Chuck in the previews for the next episode.

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I never expected it, but I'm finding there's an undercurrent of sadness when watching this show. It's because I know nothing can go right, because of where Jimmy ends up by the time of Breaking Bad. And, like someone said above, I don't want Jimmy to become Saul. It's like I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know?

Totally agree with you. In fact I see Jimmy as the Rodney Dangerfield of his world (in case there are a few of you young 'uns around, it means he gets no respect). My heart hurt when he just wanted his older brother to be proud of him when he passed the bar (the whole thing a secret because he didn't want to fail and disappoint his brother), then when his balloon was popped during his own celebration. It's almost like Jimmy gets so disrespected at every turn (even the parking lot attendant/ Mike won't let him squiggle by without the right amount of tickets) and gets so beat down that in the back of his mind he's like "F**K it, I might as well do what I want". And Odenkirk plays him so he doesn't come across smarmy or dislikeable. 

 

And if anybody sees a "Go Land Crabs" T-shirt, post the link - I wanna buy one! (my SIL had the Pollos Hermanos one when BB was big)

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Yeah, I thought it was sad as well that Jimmy had to prompt Chuck into saying he was proud of him.

******

Also think what contributed to Chuck's freezing at the meeting, was the Sandpiper's lawyer obviously trying to psych him out. 'Thought you'd be arguing before the Supreme Court....'

In other words, you used to be such a legal wizard, and now look at you!

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Thoughts inspired by the comments:

100% Chuck was in agreement with Hamlin about Jimmy being hired. He just let Hamlin do the dirty work. This is a prestige firm; where you went to law school matters. Appearances matter. The fact is, Jimmy is quite smart and a good lawyer, and they aren't giving him enough credit. But I have to give Chuck a pass, because he knows Jimmy, knows about his past history. Having said that, he could definitely have been a little more enthused and less patronizing when Jimmy told him the big news.

 

I didn't think Stacy was trying to guilt Mike, at least when I watched. I thought it was just a comment. But now I;m wondering. Letting him babysit + asking about money, maybe it is a little too coincidental like some posters have said.

 

I'm not familiar with arrangements like The Sandpiper. Where I live, a home taking your income in lieu of charging a daily room rate means you're on state assistance. Any allowance would be state-mandated. And they would pay the home a flat daily inclusive rate, so itemizing charges at a huge markup would be irrelevant. But, this worked well dramatically. And for all I know, New Mexico is different from my state.

 

At the meeting with the other lawyers, I thought Chuck was terrified at first, and that made him stiff and monosyllabic. (Recall that he said to Jimmy, "I can't do this.") The Chuck we have seen would have been able to cite the relevant case law as soon as the other guy mentioned that they had worked on a case together. But this Chuck didn't even seem to remember the meeting. Also, he was sitting there looking like a stuffed frog till the very end. It was like stage fright. I thought the other lawyers would take advantage to walk all over our guys, but I reckoned without Jimmy - he had his wits about him for sure. As for Chuck, it was so great when he suddenly said "20 million" at the penultimate moment. It took him awhile, but he got his mojo back before it was too late.

 

When Chuck realized he was outside, he appeared to be scared. I was expecting this to bring on a relapse, not that he would suddenly realize everything was in his head. Guess we'll have to wait and see - in the previews, Jimmy was urging him on with "This is our case," so I'm not quite sure he doesn't backslide.

Edited by peggy06
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I'm sure a lot of senior citizens are like the woman in the episode - relieved that someone else is handling their finances. But there are also a lot of old people who will gut you like a fish if you try to mess with their Social Security or their pensions. With the outrageous costs being on their monthly statements (even if they're in tiny writing), I think someone would have caught onto them a long time ago.

 

Plus, unlike some rest homes, a lot of the residents at Sandpiper appear to be quite lucid. And even if they weren't, there's still their families.

 

There may be a real life case like this one (and I'm sure there are real life cases involving rest homes stealing patient's money), but I doubt they played out on this scale, so blatantly.

 

 

Jimmy said that Chuck's contract allows him to take outside cases. Kim pointed out that the provision was meant to be for pro bono cases, and things like that. Jimmy never told her it was a pro bono case, though.

Well....

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/16/nursing-home-trust-fund-thefts/2967925/

 

....this brief story identifies several people who stole in excess of 100K from patients in nursing homes. If a single bookeeper can steal 350k, then the idea of a criminal conspiracy which steals millions is not terribly far-fteched.

 

An excerpt...

 

"Lee Martin knew exactly how to cover her tracks.

Like many nursing homes, Vicksburg Convalescent keeps trust funds in a single account. A resident's money is deposited there — everything from Social Security and pension checks to money sent by guardians and relatives — and the resident can tap the account to pay for care and incidentals.

And like many nursing homes, a single person — Martin — managed all aspects of the trust account. When residents or their guardians needed to pay for something, Martin issued checks and recorded the receipts. When residents had bills from the nursing home, Martin transferred the funds. When the books needed to be reconciled, Martin took care of that, too.

"Her main job was just to handle the resident trust accounts; she knew how everything worked," says Brown, administrator of the home, which has consistently gotten high ratings for resident care. "She'd been here a long time, the ideal employee. I trusted her totally."

 

Martin began billing personal purchases to the trust funds in 2010, disguising her receipts as resident expenses and taking reimbursement checks, court records show. She also skimmed money that was to be drawn from residents' funds to pay for their care at the nursing home.

Efforts to reach Martin for comment were unsuccessful, including a request made with her lawyer.

Investigators found that Martin's thefts went on for nearly a year, victimizing residents at both Vicksburg Convalescent and its sister facility, Shady Lawn Health and Rehabilitation, where she also managed trust funds. She issued herself dozens of checks, ranging from just over $100 to upward of $3,000.

Martin targeted residents who paid for their own care or used Medicare. (Residents on Medicaid, the public insurance program for the poor and disabled, carry smaller trust funds.) And she chose residents who "didn't have family (monitoring their finances) or who maybe had a little dementia," Brown says. "She did a really good job of hiding what she was doing.""

Edited by Bannon
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I think Chuck, whether frozen with fear or not, actually outpsyched the opposition. After his recounting the brilliant ploy Chuck accomplished when they were co-counsel, Chuck just icily said "good to see you". Then the only other thing he said was the $20 million demand and "see you in court" while they tried not to pee their pants.

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I was listening to a podcast, and the host said of last week, "BCS is fantastic, but Vince doesn't seem care about his audience or if we're watching."

 

It's not the viewers Vince doesn't care about, he adores the fans. He just won't cowtow to networks who want stories neatly wrapped up in 44 minutes.  He knows how smart the fans are, and knows that to build an audience you get them engaged and wanting to know what's going to happen next.  He doesn't make us wait for several episodes, but he structures his television like a good book. You don't give away the end of the story in the first 3 chapters. 

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I think Chuck, whether frozen with fear or not, actually outpsyched the opposition. After his recounting the brilliant ploy Chuck accomplished when they were co-counsel, Chuck just icily said "good to see you". Then the only other thing he said was the $20 million demand and "see you in court" while they tried not to pee their pants.

And if Sandpiper's law firm has any competence whatsoever, they know what deep feces the client is in, and the client, of course, are the owners of the firm, which may not be knowingly involved in this conspiracy. I think Gilligan and Co. are good enough writers to know that it really can't be credibly written at this point that Sandpiper escapes liability; the drama lies in how HHM screws Jimmy out of the 25-35% of a gigantic settlement that inevitably would be paid, even if only after a period of time.

Edited by Bannon
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This whole nursing home plot reminds of when a much younger version of Frasier Crane's dad ripped off the folks living in his nursing home on Say Anything. And much like those Kettlemans, he justified it because "I take care of them! I wipe their mouths!" ha ha. 

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And amazingly, I am finding Jimmy McGill a pretty sexy guy. I did not expect that 

I was thinking the same thing in this episode too.  I can see how Kim would have had a relationship with him now, in the first episode it didn't seem believable to me.

 

I just realized why he seems so sexy, he'll do what ever it takes to get the job done !!  ;)

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While Hamlin's a dick, I thought it was pretty clear that Chuck didn't want to hire Jimmy either.

I'm giving Chuck a break because there's no way the white petticoat law firm is going to hire a land crab.  Firms like MMH are infamous for refusing to even interview a graduate who falls below the upper 10%--even from top-notch schools.  It's a little bit of a plot hiccup, though, that Jimmy's connections didn't find him a decent job somewhere.

 

Nobody noticed that it was common practice for hospitals to do the same thing until one of the TV newsmagazines made a big deal about it. People make assumptions about what a charge is for, rather than try to translate the billing code numbers.

And now that we know those aspirin are $30 each, we just grit our teeth and bear it.  Except I have one friend, an attorney, who scrutinized her hospital bill and found she'd been charged $400 for use of the elevator her stretcher had been wheeled into.  She responded by battling each and every excessive charge on her multi-page statement.  It was inspiring just to hear her talk about it.  Go land crabs.

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I just thought of how writing Chuck out of the story, which seem fairly inevitable, has to be done carefully. Chuck is correct that 20 million to settle may be pretty generous of Jimmy and Chuck. A very brief investigation has already uncovered a criminal conspiracy involving at least two managers, and the destruction of evidence, involving interstate commerce, and 46 k in fraudulently obtained money. If the plaintiffs expand to dozens of individuals, the damages could easily get past 10 million in economic losses alone, before any enhancements or punitive damages. 20 million, while cutting your legal fees to a minimum, may be a very, very, good deal. 

 

Assuming that HHM eventually (and inevitably, it seems to me) screws Jimmy out what would be fair to pay him, even factoring how HHM's input was also critical, a huge legal fee paid to HHM would also enrich Chuck. If Chuck dies at some point, then Chuck might leave a lot of money to the eventual Saul, which doesn't make sense for the show, or he has to have a will which mosty leaves Jimmy in the cold, which doesn't work dramatically, at least for me. Saul eventually has to have some large regret for whatever befalls Chuck.

 

I think this needs to go in the direction of HHM getting the better of Chuck as well, leading to Chuck's demise or institutionalization. This is gonna be very, very, sad, I'm sad to say, and I can't wait to see it. Sigh.

Edited by Bannon
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Forgot to say:

 

Assigning the copies to Chuck's number was TOTALLY fubar, as Blondie was well aware.  So, getting her clients, her office and her status back, thanks to Jimmy, wasn't worth taking the heat for x hundred dollars of xeroxing?  This bitch is dead to me.

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The shame of it is that if Howard had enough brains to outweigh his snobbishness, he'd reaize that Jimmy in a goldmine. The guy started to specialize in elder law a few weeks ago, and has already proven adept at ingratiating himself with prospective clients, and it is a client base that is widely victimized by billing scams where the potential legal awards are huge. Hell, send Jimmy on a traveling bingo tour across the country, to nursing homes owned by large corporations, and he'd be sure to find some Medicare fraud scam that could pay a law firm a hundred million!

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100% Chuck was in agreement with Hamlin about Jimmy being hired. He just let Hamlin do the dirty work. This is a prestige firm; where you went to law school matters. Appearances matter. The fact is, Jimmy is quite smart and a good lawyer, and they aren't giving him enough credit. But I have to give Chuck a pass, because he knows Jimmy, knows about his past history. Having said that, he could definitely have been a little more enthused and less patronizing when Jimmy told him the big news.

 

Honestly, I just think Chuck was hesitant to even believe him at first. Jimmy had been such a scammer for a long time, it seems like even current day Chuck is still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I guess it is kind of sad that he seems to automatically assume the worst about his brother, but we don't yet know the extent of the messes Chuck has had to clean up for Jimmy. 

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Forgot to say:

 

Assigning the copies to Chuck's number was TOTALLY fubar, as Blondie was well aware.  So, getting her clients, her office and her status back, thanks to Jimmy, wasn't worth taking the heat for x hundred dollars of xeroxing?  This bitch is dead to me.

Yeah, my guess is Howard finds out by morning that Chuck suddenly used a couple hundred bucks worth of copying, out of the blue, without ever being in the office, looks into what has been copied, and finds out that Jimmy has ucovered a slam dunk case, thanks to Jimmy's dumpster diving, and Chucks acumen at putting together shredded (thankfully, not cross-cut!) documents, worth several million in contingency fees. From there, Howard uses the pretext of HHM's and Chuck's involvement to leave Jimmy out in the cold.

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I highly recommend reading the reviews this week, I'm posting some links and excerpts in the media thread, but I'm only part way through.

 

I'm noticing an interesting trend right now.  The usual "raves" about this show are still there, but now, some criticisms are showing up, and they are quite valid really.  Not about quality, but about things like the bland female characters, and, most importantly, the Jimmy getting kicked in the gut every time he tries to rise up.  The one I'm reading now is also going into the FUBAR relationship between Chuck and Jimmy, and suggesting (validly) that Chuck likes Jimmy in his role as "lesser."

 

Anyway, definitely worth a read, and this last one is really making me think. 

Edited by Umbelina
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The firm hired Kim, who presumably worked while attending because why else would they have paid her tuition?  Is the U. of New Mexico law school all that prestigious?  I don't know, I'm asking.  I do think they just don't like Jimmy's style, and he would be better off somewhere else where he'd be appreciated.

 

I am not understanding where the big payday is coming from with the Sandpiper case.  This is not medical malpractice or product liability or personal injury, so no contingency fee, right?  The criminal aspects would be prosecuted by the government, not a private law firm.  The contractual fraud aspect would yield, what?  Hourly fees plus was there some mention of treble damages or something?  Would that apply to fees as well?  Not that it matters very much, we know this case looks like gold, and Jimmy doesn't ever get any gold.

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Well....

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/16/nursing-home-trust-fund-thefts/2967925/

 

....this brief story identifies several people who stole in excess of 100K from patients in nursing homes. If a single bookeeper can steal 350k, then the idea of a criminal conspiracy which steals millions is not terribly far-fteched.

 

An excerpt...

 

"Lee Martin knew exactly how to cover her tracks.

Like many nursing homes, Vicksburg Convalescent keeps trust funds in a single account. A resident's money is deposited there — everything from Social Security and pension checks to money sent by guardians and relatives — and the resident can tap the account to pay for care and incidentals.

And like many nursing homes, a single person — Martin — managed all aspects of the trust account. When residents or their guardians needed to pay for something, Martin issued checks and recorded the receipts. When residents had bills from the nursing home, Martin transferred the funds. When the books needed to be reconciled, Martin took care of that, too.

"Her main job was just to handle the resident trust accounts; she knew how everything worked," says Brown, administrator of the home, which has consistently gotten high ratings for resident care. "She'd been here a long time, the ideal employee. I trusted her totally."

 

Martin began billing personal purchases to the trust funds in 2010, disguising her receipts as resident expenses and taking reimbursement checks, court records show. She also skimmed money that was to be drawn from residents' funds to pay for their care at the nursing home.

Efforts to reach Martin for comment were unsuccessful, including a request made with her lawyer.

Investigators found that Martin's thefts went on for nearly a year, victimizing residents at both Vicksburg Convalescent and its sister facility, Shady Lawn Health and Rehabilitation, where she also managed trust funds. She issued herself dozens of checks, ranging from just over $100 to upward of $3,000.

Martin targeted residents who paid for their own care or used Medicare. (Residents on Medicaid, the public insurance program for the poor and disabled, carry smaller trust funds.) And she chose residents who "didn't have family (monitoring their finances) or who maybe had a little dementia," Brown says. "She did a really good job of hiding what she was doing.""

 

I think that's somewhat different than this. We're supposed to believe that it was standard practice (possibly at 12 different nursing homes) to charge outrageous prices for common items, and put the outrageous prices right on the allowance paperwork the residents received. And that a whole lot more than $100,000 was involved...but the scam wasn't noticed until Jimmy came along.

 

If it was just one employee stealing $100,000 by using fake receipts, I could believe that. And I could believe a huge scam like this more easily if it was a hospital that used confusing billing codes. A whole lot of people don't pay for hospital bills out of pocket, so they're a lot less inclined to follow up.

 

I'm not saying this is some absurd plot hole that ruins the show for me. But the scope of it seems a bit extreme.

Edited by Blakeston
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The firm hired Kim, who presumably worked while attending because why else would they have paid her tuition?  Is the U. of New Mexico law school all that prestigious?  I don't know, I'm asking.  I do think they just don't like Jimmy's style, and he would be better off somewhere else where he'd be appreciated.

 

I am not understanding where the big payday is coming from with the Sandpiper case.  This is not medical malpractice or product liability or personal injury, so no contingency fee, right?  The criminal aspects would be prosecuted by the government, not a private law firm.  The contractual fraud aspect would yield, what?  Hourly fees plus was there some mention of treble damages or something?  Would that apply to fees as well?  Not that it matters very much, we know this case looks like gold, and Jimmy doesn't ever get any gold.

RICO can be used in a private civil suit as well, and when it is, damages are automatically trebled. Legal counsel can take such a  case on a contingeny basis. 

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Now I'm questioning whether Chuck is also screwing Jimmy here.  This is a brilliant legal mind, who has near photographic recall.  Am I really supposed to buy that Chuck doesn't realize that by using HMM's equipment, with his code, that this could easily become an HMM case, which would cut Jimmy out?  Hell, we've seen Chuck's loyalty to HMM before, it's even possible that he would agree with them, that since he is still a partner, of course HMM should profit.  Taking that a step further, it was Chuck that figured out the big payday possibilities, RICO. 

 

Damn, if Chuck is the one that screws Jimmy?  Damn.

 

I'm not going to get fussed about the legal shit, because I'm damn sure Vince has excellent lawyers to review his storylines on staff, he isn't going to put something on the show that wouldn't be legally feasible. 

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i had a hard time buying that no one ever noticed all that money missing from all 12 of those old folks home until Jimmy came along.

 

I mean all their families never asked them about money? 

Sandpiper's pitch is that they take care of all the details. Their model of "we take your income, subtract what you owe, and give you the rest" is going to appeal to exactly the kind of folks who don't want to deal with details and costs and scrutinizing everything. 

 

Of these, the February 24, 1868, impeachment of President Andrew Johnson is a possibility (or his May 16 acquittal). But I'd have to pick the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution (July 28, 1868).

My guesses: Thomas Edison applied for his first patent, the electric vote recorder, on October 28, 1868.

Also, the judge from the Scopes Monkey Trial, John T. Raulston, was born September 22, 1868.

As a good guy lawyer, it's got to be the 14th Amendment. There's no evidence that Chuck was always obsessed with electronics. If he picked the code, it would have been when he was a successful lawyer at the top of his game.

 

Tonight made it look more and more that Chuck's problem is mental.  When he wasn't thinking of it, he got near a car, near the cell phone, under the wires, everything, and nothing bothered him at all.

They were pretty clear about that (thankfully) when Chuck was hospitalized. And as Jimmy put it, yes, Chuck is delusional, but how to you talk someone way smarter than you out of a delusion? 

 

I have this fear that HHM is going to say Chuck broke the partnership rules, or something, and use it as a reason to get rid of him without any payout. It was clear from Kim's reaction that it wasn't a good idea to use Chuck's code to do this volume of printing. 

Well, Jimmy and Chuck both seemed to feel that this was a legitimate use of Chuck's code, and I think we have to trust them on that. If there's a pitfall here, it's that Chuck is acting like he has the resources of a big firm to carry out a lengthy and expensive case. So, ultimately HHM will find away to cut off those resources and screw up the case. If the printer code thing turns out to be a crucial error, instead of just a way that it gets on HHM's radar, I'll be disappointed.

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Crucial error or subconsciously deliberate on Chuck's part?

 

Perhaps this is what kicks Jimmy into being Saul.  Chuck's betrayal may be Jimmy's final straw.

Edited by Umbelina
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I think that's somewhat different than this. We're supposed to believe that, for years, it was standard practice to charge the residents (possibly at 12 different nursing homes) outrageous prices for common items, and put the outrageous prices right on the allowance paperwork the residents received. And that a whole lot more than $100,000 was involved..but no one did anything until Jimmy came along.

 

If it was just one employee stealing $100,000 by using fake receipts, I could believe that. And I could believe it more easily if it was a hospital that used confusing billing codes. So few people understand billing codes, and a whole lot of people don't pay for hospital bills out of pocket, so they'd be a lot less inclined to check it out.

 

I'm not saying this is some absurd plot hole that ruins the show for me. But the scope of it seems a bit extreme.

So far, Jimmy and Chuck have found two people involved in stealing 46K from a dozen or so individuals, who likely were selected for their vulnerability. The reason why Sandpiper's lawyers are very nervous is that these kind of scams, especially once they involve two or more people, tend to expand until they, inevitably, are discovered. Inevitable can take a while, however. Bernie Madoff was putting forth patently ridiculous statements, to be examined by experts in the field, for decades, before the jig was up. Hell, even after an expert notified the SEC that Madoff's statements were mathematically impossible to not be fraudulent, the scam continued for years. Picking out a couple hundred isolated and vulnerable old people to overcharge? That's nothing.

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Sandpiper's pitch is that they take care of all the details. Their model of "we take your income, subtract what you owe, and give you the rest" is going to appeal to exactly the kind of folks who don't want to deal with details and costs and scrutinizing everything. 

 

As a good guy lawyer, it's got to be the 14th Amendment. There's no evidence that Chuck was always obsessed with electronics. If he picked the code, it would have been when he was a successful lawyer at the top of his game.

 

They were pretty clear about that (thankfully) when Chuck was hospitalized. And as Jimmy put it, yes, Chuck is delusional, but how to you talk someone way smarter than you out of a delusion? 

 

Well, Jimmy and Chuck both seemed to feel that this was a legitimate use of Chuck's code, and I think we have to trust them on that. If there's a pitfall here, it's that Chuck is acting like he has the resources of a big firm to carry out a lengthy and expensive case. So, ultimately HHM will find away to cut off those resources and screw up the case. If the printer code thing turns out to be a crucial error, instead of just a way that it gets on HHM's radar, I'll be disappointed.

Yeah,it'll take some careful writing to get the characters where they need to be. It won't be credible for Jimmy to be left with nothing, it seems to me. He has to be forced to let HHM have it without a fight, and that'll mean he'll get something (maybe enough for a long term lease for office space in a strip mall, and a local t.v. ad campaign!), but no where near what is rightly his. Hopefully, the writers are smart enough to contrast Jimmy's reaction to such an event, as opposed to making it similar to, a certain brilliant chemist's reaction  to losing a fortune.

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So far, Jimmy and Chuck have found two people involved in stealing 46K from a dozen or so individuals, who likely were selected for their vulnerability. The reason why Sandpiper's lawyers are very nervous is that these kind of scams, especially once they involve two or more people, tend to expand until they, inevitably, are discovered. Inevitable can take a while, however. Bernie Madoff was putting forth patently ridiculous statements, to be examined by experts in the field, for decades, before the jig was up. Hell, even after an expert notified the SEC that Madoff's statements were mathematically impossible to not be fraudulent, the scam continued for years. Picking out a couple hundred isolated and vulnerable old people to overcharge? That's nothing.

 

We'll have to wait and see how imany people turn out to have been involved, but it seemed to me they wanted the audience to think that the corruption went well beyond two people.

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Crucial error or subconsciously deliberate on Chuck's part?

 

Perhaps this is what kicks Jimmy into being Saul.  Chuck's betrayal may be Jimmy's final straw.

It's an interesting choice the writers have to make here, or to leave ambiguous. I know lot of people have been impatient with the Chuck character, but I've always found him interesting.

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Many have suspected that Chuck's death is what would cause Jimmy to abandon his name, but after last night (and some review reading to sharpen my sleepy brain) I'm becoming convinced that Chuck screws Jimmy here, and that will cause Jimmy to become Saul Goodman. 

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"It's a little bit of a plot hiccup, though, that Jimmy's connections didn't find him a decent job somewhere."

I can believe it. Jimmy would have had to rely on Chuck to provide references. Clearly, Chuck was hesitant to even hire him on at his own law firm (presumably because of "Slippin'" Jimmy's past and all of the situations Chuck had to bail him out of). It would be a pretty big risk on Chuck's part to put his own reputation on the line for someone he may or may not trust himself, family or not.

Also, did anyone else look up "spoliation"? I swear, I thought each and every time he was saying "exfoliation" really fast, which clearly made no sense.

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We'll have to wait and see how imany people turn out to have been involved, but it seemed to me they wanted the audience to think that the corruption went well beyond two people.

Certainly Jimmy and Chuck think it might, and Sandpiper's lawyers greatly fear that it might. It really dosn't stretch credulity for a dozen or so people to be involved in defrauding a couple hundred elderly people selected for their isolation and vulnerability. If Bernie Madoff and few people could engage in the blatant defrauding of a few hundred  extremely smart people, for decades, what is so incredible about this? Yes, it is extremely likely that it wil inevitably be uncovered, but that rarely stops those bent on white collar crime. Jimmy was just the lucky guy who thought to go back and ask one more question.

Many have suspected that Chuck's death is what would cause Jimmy to abandon his name, but after last night (and some review reading to sharpen my sleepy brain) I'm becoming convinced that Chuck screws Jimmy here, and that will cause Jimmy to become Saul Goodman. 

It woud be an interesting choice. Betrayal would become Saul's motivation, while Mike's would be regret.

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Now I'm questioning whether Chuck is also screwing Jimmy here.  This is a brilliant legal mind, who has near photographic recall.  Am I really supposed to buy that Chuck doesn't realize that by using HMM's equipment, with his code, that this could easily become an HMM case, which would cut Jimmy out?  Hell, we've seen Chuck's loyalty to HMM before, it's even possible that he would agree with them, that since he is still a partner, of course HMM should profit.  Taking that a step further, it was Chuck that figured out the big payday possibilities, RICO. 

I don't want to get into speculating -- and hope that people will take it to the Speculation thread -- but it seems like Chuck was in the zone when he gave Jimmy the code number, as if he were back at his old job. It didn't look to me that Chuck was trying to scam Jimmy.

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 It would be a pretty big risk on Chuck's part to put his own reputation on the line for someone he may or may not trust himself, family or not.

 

I think Chuck would have been willing to write a letter. But what good is it? Jimmy has a criminal record and terrible academic credentials. Chuck is his brother, so his recommendation is easy to discount. Jimmy has no professors or internships to use as additional references. 

 

I think Chuck would have been OK with Jimmy practicing law, (while looking over his shoulder, perhaps, to be sure he was doing so honestly) but he knows that nobody is going to hire this guy. Had Jimmy asked, he probably would have advised putting that time and money into pursuing some other career.

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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I don't want to get into speculating -- and hope that people will take it to the Speculation thread -- but it seems like Chuck was in the zone when he gave Jimmy the code number, as if he were back at his old job. It didn't look to me that Chuck was trying to scam Jimmy.

That's the way I saw it. We'll see.

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