Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[merylinkid]

 

2) she was in the process of ditching Nick anyway, so why does she care anymore?

 

Actually this makes sense to me.   "I may not want you anymore, but how dare you move on until I say you can move on"  drives a huge part of my law practice.   Now I am not saying I agree that the writers did a great job of showing this is WHY Juliette is going for revenge.   But if it were, it would make sense.

 

Yes an irrational response.   But again as I say in my law practice "stop looking for rational, we are dealing with emotions."   

 

The problem is that Juliette has been shown as understanding once she heard the whole story about how Nick slept with Adalind about Nick's role in the mess.   She could still be mad at Adalind all she wanted for raping her boyfriend, but she didn't blame Nick.    Now we have raging HexieJuliette, and instead of taking it out on the one person who forced all of this -- Adalind, she is going for EVERYONE who stood by her when Nick was raped.   Everyone who tried to help both her and Nick through the consequences of that.    That's beyond irrational.   That's just bieng a bitch for the sake of being a bitch.

[spaulding]

Actually this makes sense to me.   "I may not want you anymore, but how dare you move on until I say you can move on"  drives a huge part of my law practice.   Now I am not saying I agree that the writers did a great job of showing this is WHY Juliette is going for revenge.   But if it were, it would make sense.

 

If the writers want Juliette's motivation to be "I hate Nick, but he can't see anybody else," it's stupid.  Agreed.  But it also doesn't make Juliette a bad guy who the audience loves to hate.  She just becomes an insufferable tween girl. 

 

The problem is that Juliette has been shown as understanding once she heard the whole story about how Nick slept with Adalind about Nick's role in the mess.   She could still be mad at Adalind all she wanted for raping her boyfriend, but she didn't blame Nick.

 

I go the impression that Juliette was passive-aggressive about the Nick/Adalind switch.  When she and Nick found out what Adalind had done, she did seem cold to Nick and seemed to make swipes at him for his supposed role in what happened.

[Free]

The problem is that Juliette has been shown as understanding once she heard the whole story about how Nick slept with Adalind about Nick's role in the mess.   She could still be mad at Adalind all she wanted for raping her boyfriend, but she didn't blame Nick.    Now we have raging HexieJuliette, and instead of taking it out on the one person who forced all of this -- Adalind, she is going for EVERYONE who stood by her when Nick was raped.   Everyone who tried to help both her and Nick through the consequences of that.    That's beyond irrational.   That's just bieng a bitch for the sake of being a bitch.

 

 

And it is beyond irrational to attack the people trying to help and support her especially with the poorly thought out motivation necessary for trying to do a storyline like this.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Free

[jhlipton]

If the writers want Juliette's motivation to be "I hate Nick, but he can't see anybody else," it's stupid.  Agreed.  But it also doesn't make Juliette a bad guy who the audience loves to hate.  She just becomes an insufferable tween girl.

It would be stupid, but it would be an understandable motivation (because we've seen it happen in the Real World, and not just with tween girls.  But they haven't conveyed that.

 

I was as staunch a supporter of Julliette as one can be, but I am so done with Tusch's "acting" and the ridiculous plot.  Julliette can go be evil with Katarina Crane.

[icewolf]

The first season continues to be the best.

It actually FOCUSED on the Grimm of the series. No stupidly focusing on the weaker characters like Juliette or Adalind. No amnesia, no adventures in Europe, no baby drama, and definitely no HexenJuliette. Adding Adalind to the main cast was one of the worst decisions this show ever made, no offense to that actress. She was just perfectly used in season one as a guest star, only appearing when it was necessary for the plot. They have no idea what to do with the character now after stupidly making her part of the main cast, so she has been wandering from one place to another for years, constantly causing mayhem when Nick should have beheaded her years ago.

Nick and Monroe, one of the best best bromances of television, was front and center with many team ups. Monore is completely sidelined nowadays. The show shouldn't be doing that with Silas Weir Mitchell, its best actor!

The arc was in the background and focused on developing Nick's Grimm role in Portland. The show still made an attempt to be about fairy tales, when now it is just about the next murderous Wesen. The best part was that the endless Royal nonsense wasn't the entire show yet, they were only mentioned in that one episode in the first season when Rosalie's resistance friend showed up in town. It ALWAYS feels like the Royals never do anything, and their storylines never go any where.

Edited May 14, 2015 by icewolf

[icewolf]

If the writers want Juliette's motivation to be "I hate Nick, but he can't see anybody else," it's stupid. Agreed. But it also doesn't make Juliette a bad guy who the audience loves to hate. She just becomes an insufferable tween girl.

A big problem is that Nick generates way more sexy/romantic chemistry with all OTHER woman on the show besides Juliette. Adalind, dragon girl in season one, and Muse girl who made Nick obsessed in season two ALL have pretty hot scenes with Nick.

Meanwhile, Juliette has always had way hotter chemistry with Renard.

Nick/Juliette have always bored me to tears.

[Prevailing Wind]

Are y'all ready for the cries of anguish to be heard shortly before 9 PM, EDT?  In the speculation about who may or may not die this episode, I'm betting on the entire show.  These writers have killed what used to be a really interesting program.

[Free]

Are y'all ready for the cries of anguish to be heard shortly before 9 PM, EDT?  In the speculation about who may or may not die this episode, I'm betting on the entire show.  These writers have killed what used to be a really interesting program.

 

Exactly, this has been the worst storyline so far and that;s saying a lot considering the show, if they drag this any further into next season, I'll definitely drop it because it's been so insufferable especially if they try to do a redemption/try to have her as the Big Bad when it's already this poorly executed.

[Dobian]

I thought the whole plan was to get Juliette fully on board with being a Grimm's significant other, that was the direction when she backed Nick getting his Grimm powers back to save Monroe.  Then they go and do ...this.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Dobian

[Free]

I thought the whole plan was to get Juliette fully on board with being a Grimm's significant other, that was the direction when she backed Nick getting his Grimm powers back to save Montor.  Then they go and do ...this.

 

I really don't know what they're trying to do with her character, it's so poorly written and executed and her dark storyline is the worst.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Free

[BruceAE]

Just saw the finale of the season and it occurred to me that;

 

a) The writing and acting on Grimm really works when it focuses on small character moments.  Rosalee and Monroe on the couch, Wu and the shotgun, every scene with Bud.

b) It fails completely when the writers try and create an ongoing story.  The Royals, the Keys, the Wesen Council, the Coins, the Royal Baby, hell even the powers possessed by Hexenbiests and the entire character of Juliette - None of it has been consistent, made much sense, or been followed up on adequately.

 

I have the hope that whatever is going on with Trubel has been mapped out, and maybe the writers room is learning from it's mistakes.  There was an email from her a few months ago which indicated she thought something 'funny was going on', which was dropped and never mentioned again but I hope ties into the re-appearance of the FBI.

[Free]

Just saw the finale of the season and it occurred to me that;

 

a) The writing and acting on Grimm really works when it focuses on small character moments.  Rosalee and Monroe on the couch, Wu and the shotgun, every scene with Bud.

b) It fails completely when the writers try and create an ongoing story.  The Royals, the Keys, the Wesen Council, the Coins, the Royal Baby, hell even the powers possessed by Hexenbiests and the entire character of Juliette - None of it has been consistent, made much sense, or been followed up on adequately.

 

I have the hope that whatever is going on with Trubel has been mapped out, and maybe the writers room is learning from it's mistakes.  There was an email from her a few months ago which indicated she thought something 'funny was going on', which was dropped and never mentioned again but I hope ties into the re-appearance of the FBI.

 

It really is and that's what made S1 good for the most part, it was mostly character interactions and Nick learning to be a Grimm, Nick/Monroe moments, etc.

 

The writers can not handled ongoing storylines properly.  The Royals being 1 of many blunders, meandered for 4 seasons and ended up being just generic interchangeable baddies.

[Actionmage]

It fails completely when the writers try and create an ongoing story.

 

I think you mean a world-building story. What we are watching, and the things you liked in a) are ongoing stories. On the world-building, ITA. The writing has let us down in most instances. They introduce interesting concepts/groups/ hints at the bigger masquerade, but then never do anything with them ( the Keys, Reapers, the 7 Houses), pawn it off to another medium ( the coins were supposed to be wrapped up in the comics?), or just seem to go all hack with how they go forward with Royals and Kelly. 

 

Yet?

*Monroe has become an beloved figure in the Grimmverse, as has Bud.

*Fans were yelling at their visual devices to "Just. Tell. Wu!" for the better part of this season after getting a start on it last season.

*Nick has gone from Superman to almost-Punisher.  Season 1 Nick would not have warm fuzzies about end-of-S4 Nick.

*Rosalee embracing the life her father and brother chose ( the medicinal side with her dad and the Resistance side with Freddie) after being away for so long. Positively re-connecting with her mom and sister.

*Hank's journey from unknowing to being read in and saving his goddaughter to advocating for Wu being read in and reminding Nick about how things are seeming to normal folks.

*Teresa has gone from lone wolf to feeling a part of something bigger and older than she ever imagined. She found good friends and felt strong enough to leave, but with something to return to if she wanted.

 

In writing that out, it feels so weird to say that the supernatural stuff feels more mishandled than the interpersonal stuff, as the supernatural stuff was a big draw, along with the friendships. You might think that why the supernatural creatures do things would be something tackled before shooting started. Don't get me wrong- I love the relationships too.

[ShadowFacts]

I really think it's mostly the characters and their actors (minus a made hexenbiest) who have kept me in during the last half of the season.  And they are why I would have been out if any had been killed in the finale, so I do hope the writing takes a better turn as to plot in the final season(s).  I would enjoy it so much more.  I guess that would be filed under stating the obvious.

[Free]

I really think it's mostly the characters and their actors (minus a made hexenbiest) who have kept me in during the last half of the season.  And they are why I would have been out if any had been killed in the finale, so I do hope the writing takes a better turn as to plot in the final season(s).  I would enjoy it so much more.  I guess that would be filed under stating the obvious.

 

I honestly hope next season is the last, ITA about it being the characters (for the most part) being the draw.

[PepperMonkey]

Free, I think unless they completely turn this bus around, next season will most definitely be the last.

 

As I said in the Juliette thread, I expect them to possibly even cut it short to 13 or so episodes, or if they don't, they'll hiatus it and burn off the rest in the summer.

 

It makes me very sad as I will sorely miss Monroe, Rosalee, Hank, Wu, Bud (whose appearances in small doses are mostly perfect) and Trubel. I guess I'll miss Nick, but not to the degree that I will miss the others. I will not miss Juliette, Adalind (UGH, just ugh) and I won't even miss Renard. He's actually never really fit in, but I forgive him cause, shirtless scenes.

 

Worse for me than Juliette, though, is Adalind and yet another damn baby. I just don't get it. I don't see how it can work out and I do not know why these writers are so invested in the actress that they added her to the cast as a regular. And for sure, if they try to make Nick and her a couple, I will not even watch to the bitter end. I won't even hate watch. Oh, and I do not want ANY of what these writers are smoking.

[Actionmage]

I did see in one of the recent interviews with the Show Runners that they basically say that they "ran out" of fairy tales.  I call a big old BS to that one.  There are some well known fairy tales that the haven't done--The Snow Queen, The Twelve Dancing Princesses, and there is that new collection of non-Grimm fairy tales out (which I own and have thumbed through).  Plus, the Grimm Brothers themselves did multiple versions of several tales.  In the collection I read (Philip Pullman's collection) there were at least 3 different versions of Cinderella--one of which had, and I kid you not, a cyclops.  There is no reason that they can't go back and do a different take on some of the fairy tales they've already used.

 

(Brought over from  the Wishlist thread; italics mine)

 

I just can't with whoever is supposed to be looking  for script ideas.  Portland surely has a diverse population. Just because it's called GRIMM, you can use other folktales. I don't think the audience cares where the base story came from, just that the resulting up-date is told with relative logic and that it is entertaining.

 

I agree that because of the base tales having more than one version, usually, that you can use one version to look at how the story can be retold in one manner and take a totally different angle for another take on the same story.  Law & Order was on the air for twenty years. They had multiple cast changes and did "ripped from the headlines", but still did different takes on various crimes.  I just can't understand how someone can say they "ran out of " fairy tales.   This may add to my decision to leave before I'm completely disillusioned with the folks putting the show out.

 

edited for clarity.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Actionmage

[Free]

Free, I think unless they completely turn this bus around, next season will most definitely be the last.

 

As I said in the Juliette thread, I expect them to possibly even cut it short to 13 or so episodes, or if they don't, they'll hiatus it and burn off the rest in the summer.

 

It makes me very sad as I will sorely miss Monroe, Rosalee, Hank, Wu, Bud (whose appearances in small doses are mostly perfect) and Trubel. I guess I'll miss Nick, but not to the degree that I will miss the others. I will not miss Juliette, Adalind (UGH, just ugh) and I won't even miss Renard. He's actually never really fit in, but I forgive him cause, shirtless scenes.

 

Worse for me than Juliette, though, is Adalind and yet another damn baby. I just don't get it. I don't see how it can work out and I do not know why these writers are so invested in the actress that they added her to the cast as a regular. And for sure, if they try to make Nick and her a couple, I will not even watch to the bitter end. I won't even hate watch. Oh, and I do not want ANY of what these writers are smoking.

 

I honestly hope so.

 

 

I did see in one of the recent interviews with the Show Runners that they basically say that they "ran out" of fairy tales.  I call a big old BS to that one.

 

Exactly, that's complete bs, there are plenty of fairy tales and different interpretations of them.  It's the writers incompetence and lack of any creativity whatsoever that's the problem. They chose to make it about Juliette/Adalind/baby drama and they chose to destroy the trailer that had plenty of Grimm mythology in there all for the sake of their awful soap opera melodrama.

[merylinkid]

I call BS on they ran out of fairy tales too.   Bitsie Tulloch said something about how much she loved the show because there were over 500 fairy tales to cover.   They haven't even touched on a fraction of those.   There are LOTS of stories to still tell.   THey just prefer to try their attempt at BIG ARCS where they suck, instead of looking at the world from a different angle.    They prefer DARK and EDGY to just exploring this world that is our world, just with some people in it we didn't know existed.

 

Remember the retirement community for aged wesen?    How did that come about?    Remember the conflict with the bears wanting to be traditional in a modern world?    Heavens even Nick trying to be a new kind of Grimm who understood Wesen weren't automatically deserving of getting their heads cut off?   Goodness so much more to explore there but instead we get Royals doing something vague, Adalind getting pregnant again, and Juliette turning evil.    

 

I want this show to last for a long time.   My network tv pickings are getting slimmer and slimmer.    Please writers, go back to what you do best -- the fairy stories in the modern world.    You got years of material there.

[OtterMommy]

I just can't with whoever is supposed to be looking  for script ideas.  Portland surely has a diverse population. Just because it's called GRIMM, you can use other folktales. I don't think the audience cares where the base story came from, just that the resulting up-date is told with relative logic and that it is entertaining.

 

 

Yes, yes, yes!  I mean, one of their most creative episodes was based on a Filipino legend!  This year's Christmas show was, well, stupid--but they did have a, um unique wesen from the Greek tradition going on.  Portland is fairly diverse and there are a number of immigrant communities here--there is plenty of material.

 

And, if that is not enough, what about other literature?  I still maintain Renard's most recent story line would have been better if they had done Jekyll and Hyde instead of Jack the Ripper.  There was one episode in the second season that was reminiscent of "The Scarlet Letter." I wouldn't be too horribly upset if they jumped on the Vampire bandwagon if they used Bram Stoker's novel as their source material.

 

Bottom line: TPTB have no basis to complain about lack of source material....

[anamika]

The problem with this show is that we have shitty writers now. Season one had different writers ( Naren Shankar who left to do Almost Human) and those who remained (Akela Cooper) left at the end of season two. Do you guys remember the fun pied piper story? Even the Adalind episodes were fun with Nick, Monroe and Rosalee racing against time to save Hank after she puts him in a coma or something.

 

 Buffy alumni, for the most part,  seem to be decent writers (Steven Deknight, Drew Goddard), but the ones we got on Grimm, seem to be the worst of the lot. Are there even any women writers on the staff? I listened to a podcast recently with a staff writer who was the only woman in the writing room and she mentioned how she had to speak up several times about how a woman would never do this or that or act in a specific way and I think it's important to have a female perspective on things. Maybe we would not get Juliette behaving like an unlikeable idiot if Grimm had a female staff writer.

 

I think these writers are rather patronizing towards the female characters on the show.  Rosalee punches out someone and Monroe stands nearby going 'Atta Girl!'. Or when the kidnapped damsel in distress gets the chance to hit the bad guy on the head with a pole before Hank and Nick arrest him just to say "Hey, I am not a damsel in distress!", or " Look at me, I am so bad-ass with my powers and cool fight scenes". Everything feels so artificial. It's like when Juliette and Truble walk into the spice shop to protect Rosalee and all the men are standing around going " Wow, they are so bad-ass".

 

This article on the Mad-Max character Furiosa explains it better:

 

 

But what’s interesting about Fury Road is that its feminism isn’t pulling focus. It’s not saying, “Hey! Look at this Strong Female Character!” The film’s feminism is a utilitarian result of the plot’s mechanics.

 

http://www.themarysue.com/george-miller-feminist-answer-franchise/

 

And I think that's the difference  between Truble and Juliette. As a Grimm, Truble's abiity to kick ass is a result of who the character is. While Juliette's entire character is written in such a way as to beat us over the head with how much of a ' Strong Female Character' she is. And these writers would not know subtlety if it hit them on the head. Their ham-handed way of trying to making Juliette relevant by making other characters mention how great she is breaks the first rule of show don't tell.

 

If a character is not required or relevant to the plot leave them out of it. I am not a fan of the huge Scooby gang getting together to solve crime where every actor/character has to get a line of dialogue and something to do. I enjoyed season one's Law and Order format where Nick and Hank investigate the crime on the police side and Nick and Monroe investigate the wesen side of things. The tighter focus on characters made me enjoy them more. There was one episode in season three, I think, where Nick and Hank take on wesen in the sewer drains and it was mostly just the two of them and very enjoyable. Or the episode where Nick and Juliette go on vacation and run into an abusive alley cat. Juliette was actually a fun character way back in season one.

 

Not a big fan of Wu. The actor has just one facial expression and one way of speaking and his one liners gets boring pretty fast. I would rather have more Rosalee, Hank and Monroe than Wu. Characters like Wu and Bud work well in small doses.

 

Finally, coming to the mythology and world building: This is some of the worst writing I have seen in any show till date. Keep in mind that Nick only found out how wesen recognize him as Grimm at the end of season three!!  This, despite how he is close friends with Monroe and Rosalee. And remember how Nick and Renard start to talk about the keys at the end of season two and then Wu interrupts regarding some case and they never go back to talking about that. Or all those episodes of Renard building up some alliance with the Resistance. That went no where either.

 

Other than Adalind’s numerous babies (The least likeable plot in all this) have they followed up on any of the plot points and numerous mythologies? The Dragon Tongue? Japanese Royals trying to kill Monroe? Renard’s shady minions (“ I need your wrath!”)? What exactly are the royals? Etc. Etc.

 

This show is a mess. Unless they go back to season one writing quality I am not wasting my time on this show even if Juliette is dead. She was just one part (Albeit a big part) of some incredibly shoddy writing. And if she is really dead, I hope they start like one year later so that Nick is over mourning her and back to Grimm business. Grimm works best with lots of humor and fun twists on fairy tales. More comedy please! Russel Hornsby's facial expressions and reactions make Hank such a fun character and I think even Bitsie was good at the comedy. She just totally sucked at playing bad-ass. I just wish they would make Grimm more light hearted and fun than grimm and dark.

Edited May 19, 2015 by anamika

[Prevailing Wind]

 

My network tv pickings are getting slimmer and slimmer.

Amen.  I'm down to regularly watching "Grimm" and "Jeopardy!" - after Wednesday, I won't even have Letterman to watch anymore.  I find most new shows just impossible to get invested in.  It's probably a function of my age, but I'm going to be spending my retirement watching Netflix DVDs of movies I've missed through the decades.  And if Juliette is resurrected, I won't have "Grimm," either.  I'll probably be abandoning the best show with the worst writing.

[Free]

 

Bottom line: TPTB have no basis to complain about lack of source material....

 

It's their lack of creativity and incompetence at writing storylines.

 

 

And I think that's the difference  between Truble and Juliette. As a Grimm, Truble's abiity to kick ass is a result of who the character is. While Juliette's entire character is written in such a way as to beat us over the head with how much of a ' Strong Female Character' she is. And these writers would not know subtlety if it hit them on the head. Their ham-handed way of trying to making Juliette relevant by making other characters mention how great she is breaks the first rule of show don't tell.

 

It sure is and you can compare her to the other characters on this show as well.  They violted the show don't tell rule so many times, especially with her latest storyline which was just completely awful.

 

 

And if Juliette is resurrected, I won't have "Grimm," either.  I'll probably be abandoning the best show with the worst writing.

 

Same here, I'm not waiting around 5 months for another possible cop out.

 

 

The problem with this show is that we have shitty writers now.

 

Classic case of losing talented writers and getting stuck with awful ones.

[tennisgurl]

Totally agree about the world building. What a mess. 

 

Whats worse is, they had a lot of really interesting stuff going on at first, with the different Wessen and the Wessen cultures, old world vs new, old grudges, that was interesting. They had lots of different kinds of Wessen, who all had their own identities and cultures, all of which was rip for story telling. But they basically decided to ignore all of that to focus on the awful royals, and multiple pregnancies, and pointless Juliette drama. 

[Bruinsfan]

So they are writing their lead/hero as a dumbass. That is an unusual direction to take, for sure.

It's worked for Teen Wolf for four seasons.

 

Ugh...this show should be banned from doing any more baby plots.  Well, I guess if Monroe and Rosalee had a completely undramatic pregnancy, I'd be okay with that, but no more...  

 

The thing that gets me is that the first baby plot was not well received so....they did another one, because fans just LOVE to see more of things they hate (and, frankly, they had good reasons for not liking baby plot #1 and even better reasons for not liking baby plot #2).  Sadly, you're right...it really looks like they are trying to keep their options open for more babies....

Greenwalt has been positively OBSESSED with having miracle pregnancies/babies on his shows since the first season of Angel 15 years ago. I wish he would work whatever issues he has with the subject out in therapy instead of vomiting them up on our TV screens year after year.

[jhlipton]

I read a great short story that had 5 versions of the Cinderella story.  "Run out of fairy-tales" is complete BS.

[Free]

I read a great short story that had 5 versions of the Cinderella story.  "Run out of fairy-tales" is complete BS.

 

Complete bs, it's just an excuse to try and justify their lack of talent and creativity.

[Free]

 

At no point in that whole time she was trying to kill him did she state WHY. That's all I want to know. Where did the rage come from?

 

It's because the writers themselves didn't know wtf they were doing, her arc was all over the place which is why people here have to make up theories just to try and make sense of all this mess.

 

It started off with revenge against Adalind and then that got dropped, by the end, Adalind didn't even matter while her child was being passed around like a hot potato between the characters.

 

Then she for some reason turned on Nick and also blamed the others for the unforseen side effects, they weren't even aware of until she finally told them.

 

Then she teamed up with the Royals for no reason at all, she personally got nothing out of it even though it benefited the Royals, she just waited for them at the house and then got shot by Trubel.

[blueray]

 

Not a big fan of Wu. The actor has just one facial expression and one way of speaking and his one liners gets boring pretty fast. I would rather have more Rosalee, Hank and Monroe than Wu. Characters like Wu and Bud work well in small doses.

 

I never got the whole "they have to tell Wu". I honestly could careless if they told him or not. He is a good recurring character who has some great one-liners but shouldn't be a main character. Especially since they didn't even have time of their other characters. Same goes for Bud, as much as I love seeing him, I can't see him as a main character but so far thankfully that hasn't happened.

[Free]

I couldn't have cared less for Kenneth. What a waste of time and space he was.

 

Exactly and the same goes for the other Royals (generic interchangeable villains).

[Shadda2]

Yes, please just give us a better more extensive backstory on the Royals. They could be interesting villains if we knew more about them.  Flesh them out and show us more about the other Royal families out there we haven't met yet.  Then let's defeat them one at a time in several small arcs.  They can be the big bads of the series, but we need to know why they exist.

[Free]

Yes, please just give us a better more extensive backstory on the Royals. They could be interesting villains if we knew more about them.  Flesh them out and show us more about the other Royal families out there we haven't met yet.  Then let's defeat them one at a time in several small arcs.  They can be the big bads of the series, but we need to know why they exist.

 

I feel like it's a little late for that seeing as it's already 4 seasons and I honestly don't see much of this series going on for that long as it is.

[TVSpectator]

Yes, please just give us a better more extensive backstory on the Royals. They could be interesting villains if we knew more about them.  Flesh them out and show us more about the other Royal families out there we haven't met yet.  Then let's defeat them one at a time in several small arcs.  They can be the big bads of the series, but we need to know why they exist.

 

Like, what Free mentioned, it's a bit late to do that, but unlike Free I would like just one episode of exposition dump on everything (just so we can get it out of the way), which of course includes the Royals' backstory (hey does anyone remember when they used to do that on Grimm, like way back in Season 2?).

[Free]

Like, what Free mentioned, it's a bit late to do that, but unlike Free I would like just one episode of exposition dump on everything (just so we can get it out of the way), which of course includes the Royals' backstory (hey does anyone remember when they used to do that on Grimm, like way back in Season 2?).

 

I do, but the writers have forgotten, as for the Royals, I don't see a point anymore at this point, even if we do somehow get one, it would be too little too late especially since they've pretty much already gotten rid of them for the most part.

[OtterMommy]

So, I had an idea that might improve the writing on Grimm.  They need to create a new "writing" position.  I put that in quotes because the person in this position would do no writing.  Instead, they would sit in the corner and be a smart-ass and point out all the inconsistencies and gaping plot holes the writing team creates and bug them until they fix them.

 

TPTB here, especially the writers, do something I HATE.  They operate on the assumption that their viewing audience is made up of idiots who will take everything on face value.  Look on these boards, or other fan boards.  Heck, look on Facebook...the fans are questioning what is happening on this show and bringing up pretty obvious things that the writers try to sweep under the rug.  Honestly, the ideas posted on various threads on this board and hundreds of times better than what ends up in the show....

[Prevailing Wind]

Wouldn't that be a Continuity Editor? Or a Gadfly.  One of us needs to apply for the job. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Prevailing Wind

[Free]

 

There are other shows that realize just how far off track they've become. I know they say they are doing a reboot, so maybe Juliette will be dead. On the other hand, they could suddenly make her fairy tale princess speshul snowflake Juliette who walks into a room and makes it that much brighter with her cheery smile and apple pie and cute little puppy, but they say they're going darker, so they could also have her act even more inexplicably evil with no explanation.

 

Wait, now this description sounds more fun than what we actually got from the character on the show itself.

[Commando Cody]

I think the Hexenbiest story has become a little like the TV show Charmed in how they handled how powerful the witches were.

 

It started out as the three main witches were supposed to be the most powerful witches ever.  Okay.  Cool.  

 

Along comes Piper's first son, Wyatt.  A baby so special that all the magic stops on the day he's born.  

Along comes Adelind's daughter and stuff happens they day she was born.  I can't remember the hijinks associated with Diana's birth.  I think it was storms or power outages or something. Just so we, the viewer, know how special she is. 

 

On Charmed we have the three most powerful witches ever.

Along comes Billy in season eight.  She is now the most powerful witch ever.  

 

Now on Grimm.  Juliette wasn't born a hexenbiest, but she accidentally acquires some powers and turns into the most powerfulest, specialest Hexenbiest ever.   

 

Will the most powerful witch ever, ever stop?

 

I didn't like Adelind to begin with.  After she lost her powers I thought the writers wised up and got rid of her for good.  I pretty much believed her story ended and the writers had everything all tied up there.  It seemed to be the one time they actually tied up a story line.  

 

I have some suspicion that the reason they brought the character back was because they were all sitting around the writer's room listening to Elton John.

 

One says :

 

"What's a good tagline for next year?"  

 

How about "The Witch Is Back".  

[OtterMommy]

This thought started in the Juliette thread, but I thought it should probably be here instead...4

 

Thinking back, the complaints about Juliette were pretty clear (and, ironically, not that different from the complaints about Adalind)...her reason for being in the show never made complete sense.  I really don't think any actress could have really played that role to a point where it satisfied a majority of the viewers.  And it says something about the creators/writers.  They don't understand women....and I'm about to go down a rabbit hole, so I'll move this over the writing thread.....

 

Again, the writers not knowing how to write women.....

 

In this show, we basically 5 women...Juliette, Adalind, Rosalee, Kelly, and Trubel.

 

Rosalee and Kelly are the two that people don't seem to have an issue about, and there is a reason for this.  Both characters are well-defined.  Rosalee is a apothecary with extensive knowledge about the wesen world and ties to a bigger wesen organization (the Wesen Council) and she is invaluable to Nick.  Kelly is a Grimm who had spent 18-20 years working underground for...something.  At first to find the people who killed her husband and then to protect Diana--and both worked well because her character was so focused.

 

Then we have Juliette and Adalind--the complaints about both of them (besides acting) is that they either don't belong or they are too involved--to the point that it doesn't make sense.   Both of these are fair.  Juliette as girlfriend makes sense.  Juliette as super-talented Vet who knows all about Wesen and who is the only English/Spanish bilingual person in Portland (ha!) and can shoot straighter than any cop is just too contrived and I don't know if any actress could pull that off convincingly.

 

Then there is Adalind.  Most of her plot lines have had nothing to do with the rest of the show--heck, her character wasn't even on the same continent for a bulk of her screen time!  Judging from what viewers were saying, they just felt that she was taking screen time away from more interesting stories.

 

Could things have been better?  Juliette could have been more just the supportive girlfriend and not pulled into things like the Wesenrein (I still think it was BS that Nick would let her join them there).  She could have been given little vignettes with her non-Scooby friends to show how she has to balance things between two worlds.  Basically, she could have been a smaller, but better defined, character.  As for Adalind, I'm not sure what they could have done to make her more relevant.  She's too stupid to be a villain, but she can't really be anything else thanks to eveything she's done since season 1.  They are obviously trying to find some purpose for her with this dumbass baby plot, but people (myself included) seem to already be fed up with that.

 

I don't want to dismiss the impact of acting...I think we can see the difference it makes between Adalind and Juliette.  CC has been given a crap role and as much as I want Adalind off my screen, she still makes me laugh.  I can't really say the same thing for BT as Juliette.

 

Oh, and Trubel.  I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I find that Trubel falls into the same trap as Adalind and Juliette.  I still have no clue why she is on this show, other than to shoot Juliette with a crossbow (and I really doubt that was ultimately why she was introduced back in s3).  Maybe they will give her some purpose in s5,

although it looks like she'll only be in the first episode or two

.

 

What I would really like to see is a strong, relevant female character on this show...as a regular.  I don't care if she's Nick's new squeeze or his new nemesis, if she's kehrseite (sp?) or Grimm or Wesen.  Really, there has to be at least one writer on the staff who can write a believable woman (other than Rosalee)?

Edited August 23, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

I liked CC mainly because she was on General Hospital and I enjoy Adalind only when she's being amusing.  Otherwise, Adalind, Juliette and Trubel can all fall into a vat of oil.  Trubel is way too much like Buffy's annoying little sister that should have never been born and I could do without her being on the show.  Juliette was just annoying from day one and I think it is because the actress was just so bad.  

 

We know Kelly and Marie were trained by their family to be Grimms.  Kelly is part of the Resistance and has obviously been involved since she dumped Nik on Marie...yeah, she abandoned her kid which I found annoying, since she basically manipulated the situation to play Mommy to Diana.   It was too dangerous for Grimm Kelly to raise Nik but not Grimm Auntie Marie?!

[ShadowFacts]

 

Could things have been better?  Juliette could have been more just the supportive girlfriend and not pulled into things like the Wesenrein (I still think it was BS that Nick would let her join them there).

 

Agreed, that was total BS.  She had no business there at all and Nick was a very bad boyfriend to endanger her that way, as far as he knew. 

 

 

What I would really like to see is a strong, relevant female character on this show...as a regular.  I don't care if she's Nick's new squeeze or his new nemesis, if she's kehrseite (sp?) or Grimm or Wesen.  Really, there has to be at least one writer on the staff who can write a believable woman (other than Rosalee)?

 

If they can do Rosalee, they can do another but I wouldn't really want to see him get a new squeeze or another nemesis, maybe someone within the police department would be good.  Maybe it's already too cop-centric, and Renard seems to do little other than sit in his office and be on the phone, so on second thought maybe a new medical examiner who just can't accept all the madness of the deaths she has to figure out, something like that.  My point is, I think they can do a strong female, they just have to want to, and then cast appropriately.

[Darklazr]

Agreed, that was total BS.  She had no business there at all and Nick was a very bad boyfriend to endanger her that way, as far as he knew. 

 

 

If they can do Rosalee, they can do another but I wouldn't really want to see him get a new squeeze or another nemesis, maybe someone within the police department would be good.  Maybe it's already too cop-centric, and Renard seems to do little other than sit in his office and be on the phone, so on second thought maybe a new medical examiner who just can't accept all the madness of the deaths she has to figure out, something like that.  My point is, I think they can do a strong female, they just have to want to, and then cast appropriately.

 

Nik did NOT hold a gun to Juliette's head and told her she had to help rescue Monroe, that was her choice, and her choice alone.  Juliette and Rosalie both could have stayed at the house until Monroe was rescued, but both women tagged along and wanted to help.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Nik did NOT hold a gun to Juliette's head and told her she had to help rescue Monroe, that was her choice, and her choice alone.  Juliette and Rosalie both could have stayed at the house until Monroe was rescued, but both women tagged along and wanted to help.

 

Of course Juliette went voluntarily as did Rosalee but Nick did nothing to prevent them.  In the story we had to see Rosalee backing her husband no matter the risk, and Juliette use her hexie powers.  But in real life taking civilians into that situation would be indefensible.  And even within the story, Nick had absolutely no assurance that Juliette would come out alive.  So that's why I agreed that it was BS.  But then, this show is full of it from time to time . . .

[OtterMommy]

Of course Juliette went voluntarily as did Rosalee but Nick did nothing to prevent them.  In the story we had to see Rosalee backing her husband no matter the risk, and Juliette use her hexie powers.  But in real life taking civilians into that situation would be indefensible.  And even within the story, Nick had absolutely no assurance that Juliette would come out alive.  So that's why I agreed that it was BS.  But then, this show is full of it from time to time . . .

 

And, to add another layer to that, Rosalee had skin in the game on this one.  Monroe was her husband, she herself had been threatened and, of course, she is wesen.  Juliette's job was to sit with Rosalee.  As far as anyone knew at that point, Juliette's only skill that would be useful in facing down the wesenrein is that she could shoot a gun. And, yes, she probably could shoot better than most civilians.  However, she there is no way she was a better shot (both in aim and in performance under pressure) than Nick, Renard, Hank, or Wu.  Her coming along was outright ridiculous.

[Darklazr]

Ya'll know Juliette was a badass (insert evil laughter)!  She just had to be in the mix since finding out about Nik's life as a Grimm and the wesen world.  There was no way the show was going to leave Juliette sitting at home, so she had to be in the mix with the rest of the cast now that Wu knew the truth.  

 

My hatred for all things Juliette is still in full force!  I loathe the insipid character and thought she should have died after being scratched and in a coma!  I had to FF the scenes of Juliette's sloppily kissing Renard!...Blech!

[icewolf]

Seasons 2-4 would have been much better if Juliette and Adalind were no longer around. Those two women do nothing but make Nick's life difficult, and have terrible storylines.

 

It is comical how badly writers tried to justify their screentime over the years with soap opera plots like amnesia, pregnancies, turning evil, and weird acid trips. The only explanation I have is that the writers have some kind of weird and unhealthy obsession with the two actresses.

[Bort]

Seasons 2-4 would have been much better if Juliette and Adalind were no longer around. Those two women do nothing but make Nick's life difficult, and have terrible storylines.

 

It is comical how badly writers tried to justify their screentime over the years with soap opera plots like amnesia, pregnancies, turning evil, and weird acid trips. The only explanation I have is that the writers have some kind of weird and unhealthy obsession with the two actresses.

In the case of Claire Coffee, I kind of understand. She's a good actress, has comic timing, chemistry with the other actors of the main cast. I can see why they want to keep her around. Unfortunately, they've written Adalind into a corner there's no getting out of. They'll do it anyway, though.

[OtterMommy]

In the case of Claire Coffee, I kind of understand. She's a good actress, has comic timing, chemistry with the other actors of the main cast. I can see why they want to keep her around. Unfortunately, they've written Adalind into a corner there's no getting out of. They'll do it anyway, though.

 

Agree completely.  Adalind could have been great.  Coffee definitely has the chops to pull it off, but they've given her nothing but crap and, unfortunately, they are so far down crap stream with that character that there is no way to save her.  FREE CLAIRE COFFEE!

 

As for Juliette.  I do think that, with different writing, they could have made it work better with Bitsie Tulloch.  From what I've seen of her in other things, she really does well with one sort of character (she was actually pretty good in what I've seen of Quarterlife).  I think if they would have kept the character in her wheelhouse and kept it, well, smaller, they could have pulled something passable off.  I did really like the idea of Juliette and I'm kind of sorry to see that "spot of a character" gone, but I also don't know how they could have continued.  It seemed, from interviews I'd read, that Tulloch did want a bigger role in the show.  I think they tried to do that by making her into a hexenbiest....which, I thought was a huge mistake, despite starting off with the potential to be intriguing.  I read enough interviews with the show runners that make it sound like the intent was NOT to kill of Juliette but to make her a major villain going forward--and then, bam, she was dead.  It could be they were throwing out red herrings...or it could be that they realized that they had lost complete control of the character.

[TVSpectator]

Seasons 2-4 would have been much better if Juliette and Adalind were no longer around. Those two women do nothing but make Nick's life difficult, and have terrible storylines.

 

It is comical how badly writers tried to justify their screentime over the years with soap opera plots like amnesia, pregnancies, turning evil, and weird acid trips. The only explanation I have is that the writers have some kind of weird and unhealthy obsession with the two actresses.

 

I can understand the first Adalind pregnancy because Clair Coffee was actually pregnant in real life, but with this second one, I don't understand why they wrote that storyline at all. 

[icewolf]

The whole Viktor plot sucked. It was Viktor that started this whole HexenJuliette mess since HE told Adalind do that creepy sex spell. There was no resolution with the character since he just left in the middle of the season. It probably had something to do with Alexis Denisof being bored out of his mind with the role, not that I blame him.

 

In a better written show, Nick would have killed his ass, or given him a beating to send him back to generic European country.

Edited September 20, 2015 by icewolf