Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[Curio]

I think the larger picture here is that no one on the show is ever allowed to have fun anymore. I can't think of any character or relationship that's fun and entertaining to watch. David and Killian making potions together was the closest this show has gotten in a long time to a naturally fun dynamic to watch on screen, so of course they had to ruin it. Nearly every single character on the show is just so damned depressed or sad or guilty all the time that it sucks the joy out of watching. Hook's line "that's when the fun begins" from Season 3 is a total lie. The fun never began and probably never won't because TS;TW don't allow anyone to have fun anymore. And if they are allowed to have fun, it's juxtaposed against other characters being utterly depressed, like Snow getting drunk while Emma is sad or Emma wanting to make popcorn while Hook is sad.

[Rumsy4]

21 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

but Hook was just such a great character and it feels like they are stripping away the things that made him fun & interesting, and adding things that make him un-sympathetic & boring. 

Pretty much. I think he committed the cardinal sin of becoming a much more sympathetic villain than Regina or Rumple. So, A&E decided to cut him down to their level. 

 

11 minutes ago, Curio said:

I can't think of any character or relationship that's fun and entertaining to watch.

That's true enough. One tumblr blogger described it as pretty much every fan faction now being miserable at the storylines their favs are getting. A&E took a good thing and ruined it.

[Shanna Marie]

21 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Why else would Hook, who said he wasn't old-fashioned in S4 (and has had two live-in relationships), ask Charming for his blessing for Emma's hand in marriage?

That doesn't bother me too much. He may not have done it because he believes it's important, but because he knows David believes it's important, and he wants this to work. It's a small concession to make for future family unity. I think he also kind of needed to check on where he stood with David, given how hot and cold David runs on him. So, not so much saying that he needs any kind of permission or blessing from David for his own sake, but because it would make life a lot easier if he cleared the air up front. It could have been ugly and uncomfortable if they announced their engagement and David blew a gasket because he was unpleasantly surprised and then resented Hook for the rest of their lives because Hook didn't go through the formality of asking his blessing. It's even worse when your in-laws are your same physical age, so there's not even the hope of having a few years together after they're gone and no longer interfering.

It would have been interesting to learn what he would have done if David hadn't given his blessing. Hook might have proposed anyway and left it up to Emma, but they would have known not to try to do any kind of engagement announcement in front of the family.

[kitticup]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Pretty much. I think he committed the cardinal sin of becoming a much more sympathetic villain than Regina or Rumple. So, A&E decided to cut him down to their level. 

 

That's true enough. One tumblr blogger described it as pretty much every fan faction now being miserable at the storylines their favs are getting. A&E took a good thing and ruined it.

I think A&E listened to those rape culture trolls and took them seriously so they made Hook serious instead of fun.  

[Shanna Marie]

I haven't minded all the seriousness and brooding too much because one thing I like about Hook is that he does feel bad for what he's done, and he has a lot to feel bad about. If he'd been all devil-may-care after developing a conscience, then we'd be in Regina territory. But they had an opportunity with his death/resurrection to do something of a reset for him. He'd literally died and took his past sins to the Underworld. He might still want to atone, but he might also have developed a new appreciation for life. It might have been interesting for Hook to have become the zen guy who's just happy about each moment and not wanting to waste anything about his second chance at life. That then could have stood as a contrast to other characters struggling. Or if they wanted angst, they could have dealt with all the trauma he went through in season 5 and had him dealing with PTSD. Instead, they just piled on random angst without dealing with the existing angst. He really is the coyote in a roadrunner cartoon, where he has a rock dropped on his head, spends one scene walking around like an accordion, and then is totally fine like nothing ever happened in the next scene, until he gets a piano dropped on his head and has the keyboard for teeth for a scene, then is totally fine in the next scene, when he slams into the side of a mountain. It's one trauma after another, none of them having lasting effects, none related in any way to each other.

And it doesn't help that it seems like Colin has been trying to convey some kind of emotional arc, even when it's not in the script. In the early part of the season, Hook did seem to have a peace about him. The script didn't ever mention him coming back from the dead, but it seemed like Hook was less tortured and angsty, more at ease with himself. He was like someone who's found religion -- not in the bad way that's all holier-than-thou, judgmental and posting all those "I bet most people don't love Jesus enough to like and share this" memes on Facebook, but in the good way of someone who's struggled for a long time and how has gained a sense of peace and hope. He was still trying to make amends, like with Belle, but it was a reflection of how he'd changed rather than a rending his garments guilt thing. Likewise with Little Liam, where he wasn't angry, sat with his brother in the hospital, and slipped away to leave him with Nemo without any self-pity or real angst.

Then they threw this mess in, and there's no way with these scripts to bring that sense of peace to it, so it doesn't fit with the way Hook has come across lately, and Colin is doing his usual job of throwing himself in 100 percent, so we get all the angst and pain.

[Camera One]

I don't mind the brooding either.  The actor is probably grateful to be getting emotional material to play.  He's getting more screentime in 6B than many others.  The writing and POV is stilted to portray him as the injured party while making him an active rootable hero with internal conflict.  People in generally aren't starting to hate him or be bored by him... in fact, they feel injured on his behalf.  In the Writers' warped world, this is actually an example of character favoritism rather than victimization.  Maybe fans aren't getting the "fun" side of Hook, but the other characters aren't getting the fun side, nor the sad side, nor the heroic side, nor the sympathetic side.  On the sliding scale of character destruction and neglect, Hook is faring reasonably well.

[Rumsy4]

42 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Maybe fans aren't getting the "fun" side of Hook, but the other characters aren't getting the fun side, nor the sad side, nor the heroic side, nor the sympathetic side.  On the sliding scale of character destruction and neglect, Hook is faring reasonably well.

We're reduced to being thankful with scraps in this Show, but it's not ever going to satisfy to think it could have been worse. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

No, that isn't satisfying.  But what could be satisfying is enjoying Colin's performance. 

[Curio]

I don't mind brooding, but I don't like it when it's 100% of the character's screen time. Hook has always worked best as a good balance between being emotional/brooding and snarky/funny. It's the balance we're missing right now.

[Camera One]

Now that the angst is over, I'm guessing we will get more of the latter.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Now that the angst is over, I'm guessing we will get more of the latter.

What a fun 15 seconds that will be.

Quote

I don't mind brooding, but I don't like it when it's 100% of the character's screen time. Hook has always worked best as a good balance between being emotional/brooding and snarky/funny. It's the balance we're missing right now.

I didn't use to like Hook, but I've grown a fondness for him because underneath everything I believe he is good-natured. He just has the flaw of covering his true self with revenge, sarcasm, what have you. He puts up a front because he's actually very emotional and critical of himself. With Emma, his own walls would fall down. However, lately that has changed. He feels he needs to keep secrets from her to preserve the peace. Whenever she has any indication he might leave, he's automatically in the doghouse with a fear of losing her altogether. So now his life revolves completely around her, and I feel bad for him.

I think Hook deserves better than Emma, as unpopular of an opinion that might be.

Edited April 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Kktjones]

So I’ve decided to call Hook’s solo adventure “How Hook got his groove back.” I actually think we’re starting to see a little bit more of his personality again. Yes, he spent much of 6x15 brooding, but then during 6x16 & 17 he was sassy, clever & brave. He was planning to dispatch with the whole lot of lost boys more than once and was then ready to die knowing he got the wand shard to Emma. And when he got back he immediately apologized and tried to make things right with both Emma & David. Since returning, he seems more confident and has some of his swagger back (especially noticeable in the famous pancake scene). Almost like a weight has been lifted and he’s lighter somehow. Anyway, I hope it continues.

Now if they could just give him a real storyline beyond getting separated from & reunited with Emma over and over again. I thought they were going there with having him be Robert’s murderer, but it doesn’t seem like that led to any self-reflection or character growth or change in his relationship with David, and now it’s been completely brushed aside. I guess the wedding and helping Emma prepare for the Final Battle ^TM is his storyline.

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking that I miss the old pirate Hook. I don't know why he must always be so toned down. Why can't we see more of the Hook that threatened Will Scarlet in the jail cell and then seconds later sweetly kissed his girlfriend goodbye? Hook seemed to be rather dashing and nice with Milah and also with TimeTraveling!Emma, but he could easily turn on a dime and knock someone on his ass. Why can't more of that Hook exist? He's still in there. It was great to see that Hook with Blackbeard. I'd love to see something like a Hook/Emma/Blackbeard adventure. The dynamics there would be a lot of fun.

Edited May 4, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

I miss DashingRapscallion!Hook too! He's just like a puppy dog around Emma now. Apparently he needed to be reduced to Emma's accessory to signal redemption. 

[PixiePaws1]

Flirty inappropriate fiction-based pirate meets gorgeous  modern badass bounty hunter with fairytale icon parents.....stay away from continual angst and separations and stick to swashbuckling adventures with a touch of brooding. Pancakes and tacos on a regular basis..

It writes itself...!!!

Edited May 4, 2017 by PixiePaws1

[Inquirer]

7 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I was thinking that I miss the old pirate Hook. I don't know why he must always be so toned down. Why can't we see more of the Hook that threatened Will Scarlet in the jail cell and then seconds later sweetly kissed his girlfriend goodbye? Hook seemed to be rather dashing and nice with Milah and also with TimeTraveling!Emma, but he could easily turn on a dime and knock someone on his ass. Why can't more of that Hook exist?

Judging from spoilers, we'll be seeing that Hook again in the present day of the musical episode:

Spoiler

He actually knocks Rumple out with a blow-dart and threatens to come back to "skin him" once he's done helping to kill his mom.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Inquirer

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I was thinking that I miss the old pirate Hook. I don't know why he must always be so toned down.

Because they seem to have this weird idea that being "good" means that you can't stand up for yourself or fight back. Now that Hook is good and a hero, all he can do is feel bad about the bad things he's done and just stand back instead of fighting back. Getting angry is a sign of a darkening heart. They seem to have decided that his 100 percent, all-in behavior as a hero is feeling guilty. They don't seem to have considered that he might do that as a swashbuckling hero who boldly taunts his enemies.

[Souris]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Because they seem to have this weird idea that being "good" means that you can't stand up for yourself or fight back. 

Exactly, that's a widespread problem on this show, not just with Hook. No hero is ever allowed to stand up for themselves anymore. They just have to react to and accept whatever the Villain Du Jour does. Instead of Badass Bandit Snow and Street Tough Emma from S1 who stood up to Regina, now heroes are meek and passive and just sit around waiting for their goodness to save them. It's a huge flaw of the writing. (One of many.)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Souris

[Camera One]

22 hours ago, Souris said:

Exactly, that's a widespread problem on this show, not just with Hook. No hero is ever allowed to stand up for themselves anymore. They just have to react to and accept whatever the Villain Du Jour does. Instead of Badass Bandit Snow and Street Tough Emma from S1 who stood up to Regina, now heroes are meek and passive and just sit around waiting for their goodness to save them. It's a huge flaw of the writing. (One of many.)

Or they go running around like chickens with their heads cut off to find something (like the Sapling of True Love) which can be snapped in half like dry pasta.

[Shanna Marie]

Hook losing his fun may also have something to do with the way his backstory has been developed along the way. When we first met him, he was a dashing pirate sweeping a married woman off her feet and running away with her to have adventures before she was killed and he was maimed. Then they added the story about his father abandoning him, but with few details, so still not quite so awful. Then we learned that he became a pirate after his beloved brother died due to betrayal and lies by their king and Pan leaving out details. Then we learned that his father actually sold him into slavery when abandoning him and that he ended up killing his father. Then we saw what his life as an enslaved deckhand was like, that he was a drunk even as a very young man (maybe even a teen), and he always struggled with darkness. With a backstory like that, it would be hard to write him as dashing and fun.

When you look at it, Hook's entire life seems to be either him being horribly wronged but unable to get any kind of justice, him getting some kind of payback for the horrible wrongs but in a way that's considered evil and that he feels bad about, or him having wronged someone and having to atone for it. We haven't had any stories about him getting justice for all the things he's suffered in a way that's shown as positive or about anyone atoning to him. We haven't had any flashbacks about positive things. He's either wronged and unable to do anything about it or doing the wrong and having to make up for it. That does kind of kill the sense of fun.

[Camera One]

Based on what we know, the only time when Hook was truly happy and "fun" was when he was with Milah.  One fitting happy ending for him would actually have been in 5B.  Killian, Milah and Liam Sr. could have walked into the Light together.   They could have ruled the high seas in the heavenly world together.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

One fitting happy ending for him would actually have been in 5B.  Killian, Milah and Liam Sr. could have walked into the Light together.   They could have ruled the high seas in the heavenly world together.

But that wouldn't be piling on the angst and misery in this show about hope.

There was room for some fun in the flashbacks, something other than Hook doing something to feel guilty about. Say, a flashback of the Milah days in which they take over a ship and take some treasure. In the present, Belle finds mention of some magical gizmo that's exactly what they need to beat the bad guy, but it was owned by some king on the other side of world, so it's in the wrong realm. Hook awkwardly scratches just behind his ear, smiles sheepishly, and says, "It's made of gold, has three gemstones, and is about so long? Yeah, I stole it from him. And that treasure stash was in a place affected by the curse, so it might be in Storybrooke," and then they set out to find the treasure.

[KAOS Agent]

There would still be fun either in the flashbacks or the present to have a more caper type of story for Hook. All you have to do is have the opponent be more on the villain side and put Hook on the good side - even if he's only doing it for a reward or something. That's why having someone like Blackbeard as a foil works because he doesn't need to be nice and no one cares if Hook is trying to cheat or steal from him. 

[KingOfHearts]

There's the whole argument that Hook keeping the hook and pirate get-up helps retain the iconography. But the writers don't do that sort of thing for every other main fairy tale character. Zelena is ginger, doesn't have green skin, and doesn't wear any pointy hats. Snow has a pixie cut. Charming walks around wearing plaid. Rumple doesn't run around sparkly or impish - his persona is completely different. Yes, Hook never had a cursed personality, but neither did Zelena, Cora, or Robin. Hook's hook isn't even all that featured any more. 

I think that's my biggest problem this his character. He's never allowed to evolve outside of Emma and being a pirate. He doesn't get to try new things. All the other characters got much better contrast with their new experiences in Storybrooke.

Edited July 14, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

There's the whole argument that Hook keeping the hook and pirate get-up helps retain the iconography. But the writers don't do that sort of thing for every other main fairy tale character.

He's also the only character who has a "costume" rather than clothes. Even in flashbacks and even with black being her signature color, Regina doesn't have a single iconic "Evil Queen" costume. She sometimes even gets multiple looks per episode in flashback. I guess in the first season she had the trademark pantsuits in Storybrooke, but over time there's been a wide variety in her Storybrooke outfits. Snow and David might come a little closer to a few iconic outfits in flashback, but there's still more variety than we see for Hook in flashbacks, and they have "clothes" in Storybrooke, with a variety of multiple outfits. Hook has the one pirate outfit (other than that doublet that's shown up a couple of times). But everything Hook wears is pretty much a variation on the same theme. I've commented in other threads about how it's like they bought one pattern, and every outfit they make for him is one of the views of that same pattern. So why does this one character get one flashback outfit and one basic present-day outfit with only minor variations (he does sometimes have different shirts, but they're so dark that it's hard to tell when he's wearing a different one, and along the way he switched from black leather pants to black jeans, and then there was the longer "modern" coat for a few episodes)? Even when he's in an entirely different setting and supposedly dressing to fit in, it's still basically the same outfit -- the Camelot outfit was basically his pirate outfit in different fabric. The "Prince Charles" outfit was probably the most radical departure because the coat wasn't black, but it was still essentially one of the views of the same "pirate" costume pattern. Colin is a very striking-looking guy, and he's got a very specific demeanor, body language, and walk for Hook so that he'd be "Hook" no matter what he wore. You could put him in blue jeans and a big fisherman's sweater, in plaid flannel, in a blue hoodie, in a conventional suit, and he'd still be Hook. Heck, he's the one character who carries his iconography as part of his person, no matter what he does or where he is. If he's got the hook at all times, why does the rest of his look have to be so constant? Why aren't they equally worried that we won't realize who Regina is, who Rumple is, who Snow and David are, who Zelena is (even she gets to change clothes, though she's probably the closest to Hook in having a single flashback look) without a single iconic look?

[Rumsy4]

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Why aren't they equally worried that we won't realize who Regina is, who Rumple is, who Snow and David are, who Zelena is (even she gets to change clothes, though she's probably the closest to Hook in having a single flashback look) without a single iconic look?

There are the geniuses who decided that Snow should be called Lady Mary Margaret in Camelot or else the viewers might think it was a flashback (accordng to Jane Espenson on Twitter). There's no universal logic to their decisions beyond wanting to dress-up Lana in multiple clothes, and keep Hook wearing black leather. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

11 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

There are the geniuses who decided that Snow should be called Lady Mary Margaret in Camelot or else the viewers might think it was a flashback (accordng to Jane Espenson on Twitter).

True, and no one was allowed to change their appearance during the Missing Year. Did Regina really want to dress like the Evil Queen, in spite of saying she wasn't that person anymore? Why didn't she switch to something a little less elaborate? Does Snow like her short hair in Storybrooke? If so, why didn't she have the bird's nest chopped off during the Missing Year. So I guess there's some consistency to Hook always looking the same. He's just a more extreme case of it, though it would be nice if they'd learn to trust their actors to be able to convey where in the story they are.

[oncebluethrone]

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

There are the geniuses who decided that Snow should be called Lady Mary Margaret in Camelot or else the viewers might think it was a flashback (accordng to Jane Espenson on Twitter). There's no universal logic to their decisions beyond wanting to dress-up Lana in multiple clothes, and keep Hook wearing black leather. 

But...it was a flashback.

[pezgirl7]

Video of Colin singing 'Revenge is Gonna Be Mine' at D23. He sounds really good singing live!

[Rumsy4]

Pretty awesome!!

[Shanna Marie]

20 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Pretty awesome!!

Yeah, I'm rather impressed. In places, he has a better tone singing live than in the studio recording, so obviously he wasn't engineered to death in the recording on the show. And that's a pretty tough song to sing. I've sung along a few times when it pops up on shuffle on my phone, and there are some big interval jumps, and it covers a big range. But I guess singing live is in his comfort zone.

[Rumsy4]

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

In places, he has a better tone singing live than in the studio recording

Agree. He has such a good voice.

And look at this adorable picture!! 

[KingOfHearts]

I've always thought Hook had so much more to offer outside of being a pirate. As far as pirates go, he's not exactly Jack Sparrow. He consistently does things a pirates were never do. He only became a pirate to avenge his brother, then later he pursued revenge against Rumple. I know Liam mentioned he always struggled with the darkness, however Hook gels too well in outside scenarios for him to eternally tied to the pirate persona. We've seen him as a man of class, integrity, and conviction. IMO, piracy was more of a distraction than a lifestyle he actually desired. If he's someone who wants to make amends and move on from his past, you'd think he'd be trying to get away from the Captain Hook image as much as possible. 

It's funny. Hook used to be one of my least favorite characters, but he has slowly earned my respect in the past season. I think his character is a victim of circumstance and bad writing. With the right motivation, he has a lot of potential.

Edited July 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

59 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If he's someone who wants to make amends and move on from his past, you'd think he'd be trying to get away from the Captain Hook image as much as possible. 

That's been something bugging me with the way they've handled Hook and the way they keep clinging to the iconography. In every other change in his life, he's been all-in, entirely gung-ho. When he became a naval officer, he became the ultimate naval officer, completely putting aside his entire past, to the point he went from being a drunk to preaching against the evils of rum. When he became a pirate, he was the ultimate pirate, going for the full look with guyliner, earring, jewelry, the big leather coat, etc. So why was he so half-hearted about things when he turned hero? He still dressed like a pirate, even when he went to modern clothes. He kept the guyliner, earring, and jewelry. He insisted he was still a pirate. That doesn't fit his pattern when he was trying to put his past behind him and talking about being changed, especially after he went through the whole Dark One thing, eventually resisted it, sacrificed himself, and returned from the dead. You'd think he'd have changed his image entirely. He'd have ditched the jewelry, guyliner, and black leather and found some new look/persona that reflected the person he was trying to be.

There's also a lot of potential in his depth of knowledge. To have been a navigator, he has to have some serious math skills. He was able to translate Greek. He's traveled all over his world. He experienced events that are surely a part of his world's history. It would be like being around someone his age now who'd fought in World War I (maybe even the Civil War, depending on which age/timeline they're using in this episode). But they forget about that most of the time. If they were going to keep the pirate persona, at least they could have made things interesting with the contrast between his knowledge/experience and the expectations of a pirate.

[PixiePaws1]

No new information...just thought it would benefit many if they looked at this

https://mobile.twitter.com/mamafox247/status/888901380794195968/photo/1

[Rumsy4]

Oh yeah!! ;-)

Here's the full picture (X). 

[daxx]

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Oh yeah!! ;-)

Here's the full picture (X). 

Colin is a menace to fan girls everywhere.

[pezgirl7]

vfxsup: Throw back to last season, @colinodonoghue1 why stand for a photo when you can sit and still look ?

[Rumsy4]

I found this quote from Colin's interview at Collider to be adorable: 

Quote

Sean Maguire wants to get together, so that we can play with our action figures together. My son plays with it, too. It’s kind of weird. It’s crazy!

[BoPeeps]

A “wake” for Captain Hook.

Yo Ho, and I raise a glass of (fill in your favorite beverage) in remembrance of the dashing rapscallion who used to be.

I could almost accept the domestication of his sassy scoundrel self during the heat of the CaptainSwan saga.  Almost. I much preferred the scruff and edge.

The sadly missed plot opportunities sometimes became too much in his (And Emma’s) repetitive three steps forward, two steps back relationship. But I accepted the Disneyesque papblum because, well wtf else choice did I have if I still wanted to wrap my eye candy needs in his luxurious countenance?

But they’ve Effectively killed the swagger and sass and sexiness of the ruffian pirate.

Rogers is, well, a bore. 

No revenge, no adult angst, no steamy sass, raised eyebrows and heady passion. Every hair in place, everything neat, PC and decidedly tidy is not my choice of small screen entertainment fare.

alas, Captain, I adored you. I enjoyed the earthy ride. You will not be forgotten!!

Glug glug glug. The high was a good one over the years! 

[Rumsy4]

WHook's no dashing rapscallion, to be sure. More like a cinnamon roll as Detective Rogers. And I completely share your frustrations with the way Hook and Captain Swan evolved in the Show. I say they're well out of it!

[Kktjones]

Quote

That's what an agent is for.  The agent shops various pilots while Colin is working and should something come up, negotiates a departure.

(apologies @jhlipton, I haven't mastered how to quote something from a different thread!)

Anyway, I just wanted to bring this over to the Hook/Colin thread for a little more discussion. First, let me say I would love it if Colin was able to get a pilot or another project lined up so he could get away from this sinking ship. However, after hearing JMo talk about how difficult it was for her to shoot the Once pilot while still on HIMYM, I do think it can be rather tricky. It really only worked out for her b/c she wasn't the mother, so they were extremely accommodating and flipped the filming of the last two episodes so she could go off and film Once. I can't see Once doing the same for Colin (unless they already know it's cancelled). 

Second, I hate to say it, but besides Once, Colin's agent hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire. I'm happy that he's done a few small movies, but none of them have really been significant or anything that has bolstered his resume. I almost hope he signs on with a new agent based in LA rather than his current UK-based guy.

Finally, based on everything he's said in the past, I feel like he'll stick with the show to the end (for many reasons including his young family living in Vancouver, his lack of steady work prior to Once, loyalty, etc.). And since they may not know the fate of the show until later this Spring, I believe he'll miss his chance to sign on for this pilot season. 

If anyone has a better understanding of how things work - both with agents and pilots, please chime in b/c I really want to see Colin succeed beyond this show!

[Camera One]

Click the little quote sign with the + on it, and it will take the quote with you as you travel to a different thread.

Colin really seems to enjoy being on this show, so I agree he'll stick with it until the end.  I guess every actor/actress' goals are different.  Jennifer Morrison was talking about how she jumped from one series into another and she didn't want to get into another one.  Ginny was trying other things out like performing on stage.  I don't see any new credits on IMDB for Josh Dallas, but I suppose he needed to be wherever his family was.  

[Shanna Marie]

Pilot season isn't what it used to be. The cable networks don't follow the traditional "season," and then there are the various streaming services whose shows aren't on the usual season schedule. And then there's big-screen stuff. It all depends on where Colin's priorities are, but he might be wise to test the waters rather than stick around on a sinking ship. He's not exactly being featured, so he's not getting so much visibility. He's no longer the romantic leading man. His ideal time to get out would have been after last season, getting out after his romantic arc was concluded and after the publicity relating to the musical episode, but he might still have a chance after this season. Much more than that, and I don't know that he'll still be able to use this role as a launching point. His close friends on the series are all gone and aren't even in Vancouver anymore, so it might be less fun for him now. His more minor credits between seasons may have more to do with time and availability than with demand. I suspect his agent already knows if there are potential opportunities should he get free. It's not a case of taking a leap of faith.

[Souris]

39 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I suspect his agent already knows if there are potential opportunities should he get free. It's not a case of taking a leap of faith.

I HOPE his agent is looking for potential opportunities. And I agree that he should have a U.S.-based agent if he wants to continue in the U.S. TV/movie market instead of going back to Ireland and the U.K. A U.S. agent would simply have more connections and pipelines.

[Mabinogia]

Even if he doesn't jump into another series as a regular he could spend a year doing the guest star thing, work with more directors/producers, get a resume that is more than just a pirate (I know he's done more than that, but the bulk of his recent career has been playing this one very specific character). Then come next season he can look for a full time gig on another show if that is his goal. We don't really know what he is looking to do next do we? Maybe he wants to do some movies, maybe after being the same character for so long he wants to sample a bunch of different characters. 

I do think, though, that he will stay with the show until it ends or they kick him off. As was said, he seems to enjoy what he's doing. So long as he does, and he's being paid well to do it, there is no reason for him to leave. Let's face it, the show isn't going to be on much longer. He'll be unemployed soon enough, better to keep pulling in those guaranteed checks while he can. Acting is a tough biz, once Once ends he won't know when he'll get another job. 

[Shanna Marie]

Last week, I got to sail on a tall ship, and I have to cry foul on any idea that Hook could have singlehandedly (literally!) sailed the Jolly Roger. The ship I was on was probably a bit smaller than the Jolly Roger and had a different (and I think less complicated) sail arrangement, and it had a crew of 6 or 7, with them having to call on the passengers for help raising the sails. I don't see how they could have done that with just the crew they had because that was hard work. Those sails are heavy, and it takes both hands because you have to hold onto the rope while reaching up to pull down. The way you pick up speed is by adjusting the sails to catch more wind, so Hook couldn't have gone fast enough to outrun the curse without a crew. It would have made more sense if he'd waited to ditch the crew until after he was making the deal with Blackbeard (and most of them were Blackbeard's old crew, anyway). He couldn't have raised the sails and adjusted them while also holding the wheel and keeping the ship on course, and it takes a couple of people to hoist a sail.

They could have dealt with that by doing something with the fact that the ship was made of enchanted wood, like showing that it would respond to voice commands by the captain and do some of these things on her own.

[daxx]

38 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

They could have dealt with that by doing something with the fact that the ship was made of enchanted wood, like showing that it would respond to voice commands by the captain and do some of these things on her own.

This has always been my head canon. I’ve read far too many historical novels to buy him sailing that ship alone even if he had two hands. But ditching the crew and using the ships abilities that he normally hides from the crew would make sense.

I think of it like Blackbeard’s ship in POTC, lines, sails and ropes just moving on their own at the will of the captain.

[companionenvy]

Quote

In The Crocodile he's pretty much just a jerk and a bully, we don't see him go full evil until these mid-S2 episodes. 
 

(Bringing this over from an episode thread, as it relates to the character in general)

To be fair, he's also a pirate, which implies some pretty not-good things:)

The show may never be all that specific in outlining exactly what that meant, but watching this season again, I find it hard to believe that he was only going after people who had it coming (or who he thought had it coming because they happened to work for the king who sent him to Neverland), even in the days before Milah's death. I don't think he sank to the level of senselessly slaughtering whole crews of innocents - and am confident women and children would have been firmly off limits -- but I'd have to believe there was a lot of "surrender or die" involved, in situations in which plenty of good people wouldn't have surrendered. Or he may even have adopted the attitude that it was all fair game as long as he let the men on the ships he took fight for their lives first. So, not close to Regina level sociopathy, but still pretty bad. 

One slightly mitigating factor is that I do get the sense that piracy must have been at least a little more accepted in Hook's time than equivalent crimes would be in ours. It is obvious that Hook is an outlaw, and is seen as such, but his crew is able to hang out openly at the tavern, and while Milah isn't the most sympathetic character, she isn't depicted as someone totally lacking in morals. And, of course, his initial crew is composed of former members of the royal navy, who seem pretty gung-ho about the whole pirate thing. Come to think of it, even Snow and Charming, who is established as being decidedly not cool with the whole pirate thing, are willing to try to hire Hook to find Regina in "The Song in your Heart," whereas I don't think it would ever have occurred to Mary Margaret Blanchard and David Nolan to go out and make a deal with a mobster or gangbanger, no matter how desperate the circumstances.  My take on it is that while Hook is still choosing what everyone understands to be a very bad path in being a pirate, he's living in the context of a considerably more violent culture in which killing that follows certain rules of engagement isn't perceived as quite as horrific. 

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, companionenvy said:

One slightly mitigating factor is that I do get the sense that piracy must have been at least a little more accepted in Hook's time than equivalent crimes would be in ours.

That's even somewhat accurate for our world during the "golden age" of piracy. There was a very fine line between a privateer who had official sanction to plunder enemy vessels, and a pirate acting without official documentation. Even the navy engaged in what we might think of as piracy, where the captain of a naval ship could get rich by capturing enemy ships during wartime. The government didn't much mind piracy as long as the pirates focused on enemy ships. If a British pirate wanted to disrupt French trading by plundering French merchant ships, the British government turned a blind eye. The British government only really took action against British pirates if they attacked allied ships, ships that were supposedly under some kind of government protection, or British merchant ships or otherwise interfered in British trade. The real issue was that the government would wash their hands of them if someone else caught them. Pirates were folk heroes of the time. There was also a lot less bloodshed than you'd think because most ship crews just gave up rather than fighting, and a lot of the crew members would willingly join the pirate crews because pirates treated their crews a lot better than merchant ships or even the Royal Navy did.

17 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Come to think of it, even Snow and Charming, who is established as being decidedly not cool with the whole pirate thing, are willing to try to hire Hook to find Regina in "The Song in your Heart," whereas I don't think it would ever have occurred to Mary Margaret Blanchard and David Nolan to go out and make a deal with a mobster or gangbanger, no matter how desperate the circumstances.  My take on it is that while Hook is still choosing what everyone understands to be a very bad path in being a pirate, he's living in the context of a considerably more violent culture in which killing that follows certain rules of engagement isn't perceived as quite as horrific. 

Snow also goes to Blackbeard and Hook to try to get passage away from the Enchanted Forest in the season 3 finale. In season one, at least, before they started the "heroes don't kill people" nonsense, Snow and her friends were shown to be rather violent. Snow's not shooting rubber-tipped arrows. There was the remark about Red still having a bit of someone on her chin. The attack on George's castle was pretty intense. Snow herself was a bandit, so she doesn't have a lot of room to talk. She was basically a land pirate.

So, it's possible that although Snow might have had some distaste for the idea of a pirate, she might have been somewhat okay with them as long as they weren't hurting her people. Not only are the pirate crews drinking openly in the waterfront taverns, but the pirate ships are docked openly right there in the harbor. They're not having to hide out in remote pirate coves, or anything like that.