Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[Souris]

My guess is a mix of all three. I'm guessing it was filmed last week, when Colin was in town and Sean & Tanya had their baby shower. Happy coincidence!

[Faemonic]

This show does give all the actors opportunities to show their range and subtlety (or at least, it used to) but can I just say how I loved to hear the richness come back into Hook's voice after Emma tackled him into bed? Compared to Bizarro!Hook, who was even differently timid than Lieutenant Puppy. Regular Hook has like a swagger in every syllable.

Also, unpopular opinion time, but I even had a difficult time believing that Emma could grieve Bizarro!Hook, because whatever that man was had with her was negative chemistry, which I did not know was possible. Zero Kelvin hotness. Bizarro and Regular Hook were completely different people. Lieutenant Puppy had more joie de vivre than Bizarro!Hook.

So...aye, those be Acting Skills. Give Colin a hand!

[YaddaYadda]

I think her grieving for him was completely normal.  Emma and Henry (who seemed shocked that Hook was killed) were the only two people who had knowledge of the alternate reality.  I think watching him die brought home that if they were stuck in the reality the Author created for them, then Hook would just remain dead.  I think that's what she was grieving along with all the could have beens and I think what she said to Regina indicated that.  "I'll never get the chance to take that next step if you make the same mistake I did"

 

Rumple and the Author took everything that made Hook who he is away from him.  They took his swagger and his determination and his self-confidence in everything that he is.  Hook is good at patting his own back, he is incredibly confident in the way he looks and he knows his effect on women (Emma is a different set of woman though) and he's a guy who managed to turn his life around.  Everything Hook was terrified of when he was with Henry, those were all things he had done in the past.  But even with all of that, he managed to believe in her and what she was telling him and find his courage and he died for her which was pretty much the promise we got in 4x08.

 

I'd like to say that Emma being protective of him when Grumpy knocked the sword from Hook's hand was sort of awesome and so on par with some of the things that happened this season, like her wanting him to go to the sheriff's station with Elsa in 4x03.

Edited May 13, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

I think her grieving for him was completely normal.

Oh yeah, on multiple levels. For one thing, it would be difficult to watch someone who looks exactly like the person you love die, even if he isn't exactly the same person you love. It's worse when he's dying for you. It's still worse when there's a chance that his death could mean you'll never see the person you really love again. And I think that while she didn't relate to Deckhand!Hook the same way she does to Real!Hook, she found him rather endearing. He was awfully adorable. I doubt she'd have been at all interested if she'd just met someone like him without knowing his real-world counterpart, but as another side to her Hook, she at least had strong affection for him, and the more time she spent with him, the more like Real!Hook he became. He was overcoming everything that was done to him to try to make him not be Hook, until he was pretty much being the person he really is. If he hadn't been killed and instead had gone off on some adventure with Emma, by the end of it he would have been just like our Hook, except maybe still allergic to rum.

[YaddaYadda]

I think Emma asks (orders) Isaac to bring back Hook before or after she decks him.  I think it's after she decks him.  

[Leia1979]

I'm curious if they chose Hook and Regina to be in that because: A) They were the only actors available to fly out to LA to do some shooting, B) They're the most recognizable/iconic fairytale characters on the show aesthetically, or C) ABC thinks they're the most popular characters to represent the show. Maybe a mix of all three.

 

I laughed at how Colin raised his hook to answer the question. Seriously Once, let Hook have some more comedic scenes!  

The lady from "How to Get Away with Murder" does start out by saying, "I don't know what terrible things you've done in your life up to this point..." and other attendees (at least the few I recognized) are sort of bad guys on their respective shows, like Grant Ward from AoS and the mom from "Fresh Off the Boat," so I think that also explains Hook and Regina. And while Hook is now on team good, he's definitely done some bad things in his past. 

 

And a resounding yes to letting Hook have more comedic scenes!

[Dani-Ellie]

Also, unpopular opinion time, but I even had a difficult time believing that Emma could grieve Bizarro!Hook, because whatever that man was had with her was negative chemistry, which I did not know was possible.

 

This is again one of those situations where the show is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Because I don't even want to think about the tirades that would come about if Emma just went on with business as usual after Hook gets killed, even AU Hook. I had enough of that after 4x11, please and thank you.

 

But yes, to echo what others have said, Emma grieving Hook makes sense to me. Even though he's not really her Hook, he's still Hook and if they couldn't fix things, a world without Hook at all in it would become her reality.

[YaddaYadda]

But yes, to echo what others have said, Emma grieving Hook makes sense to me. Even though he's not really her Hook, he's still Hook and if they couldn't fix things, a world without Hook at all in it would become her reality.

 

I honestly think that him being her real Hook or not her real Hook was completely irrelevant in that situation.  What she knew was that somewhere inside him, the man she fell in love was there and she saw him when he found his courage and in that moment when he was urging her to take her son and run and he was ready to die for her, he was the man she loved and she didn't run when she was supposed to and she thought that maybe he was going to win right before David stabbed him in the back.  

 

Also, Hook managed to kick David's ass in a sword "fight" where he was basically clueless and scared.  If I were Hook, I wouldn't let David live down, like ever.

Edited May 13, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[getOffMyLawn]

This is again one of those situations where the show is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Because I don't even want to think about the tirades that would come about if Emma just went on with business as usual after Hook gets killed, even AU Hook.

The OP was just stating that personally (and they noted it was an unpopular opinion) they didn’t buy that Emma would react that strongly to AU!Hook dying. I don’t agree with them (and from what I can tell neither does the majority of the audience), but there will never be universal agreement to everything that happens on this or any show. A few people then having an admittedly unpopular opinion is not, in my opinion, “a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation” in the truest sense. I think saying that it is is being a touch melodramatic.

I think the true sense of that phrase would apply if no matter how Emma’s reaction was written the majority would hate it either way; if the show was equally screwed either way. But from what I've read here, that’s not the case. In this case, it’s only a small minority who didn't buy that Emma's reaction to AU!Hook’s death would be that strong. People have differing opinions all - the - time and about almost everything under the sun. Someone having a critical opinion that runs contrary to the vast majority's opinion about a TV show isn't a criminal offense. It's just an opinion.

[Dani-Ellie]

I never said it was a criminal offense and maybe I'm just getting exasperated with the negative turn the boards have taken over the last few months. It's just very hard to keep coming here and see everything get picked apart constantly. With this particular instance, I have to think about what the alternative is to what was presented.

 

Would it have been better if Emma had had no reaction at all to the man she loves dying? I don't think that would be true to her character. Emma loves this guy. Even if AU Hook isn't exactly the Hook she knows, he's still Hook in there somewhere. I thought one of the neat things about this AU was that although Isaac messed with everyone's memories, he couldn't change base personalities. This Hook was written as an inexperienced deckhand who didn't know Emma at all but was still smitten with her at first sight, he was still a natural with the sword (except for the turning his back on his opponent bit), and he still was loyal to the point that he gave his life for two people who were essentially strangers to him. Somewhere in there was the real Hook, the Hook Emma did know and love. So yes, seeing her react in shock to his death to the point that Henry pretty much had to drag her away and then crying when telling Regina about the man (and chance) she just lost makes sense to me.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Shanna Marie]

I've been holding off on considering Hook an actual hero because while he's stopped doing bad things, for the most part, most of his sacrifices or going the extra mile have been for Emma's sake. But at this point, has he earned the title? While his initial impulse to help Ursula was to use her to get information to help their cause, and while he was mostly undoing his own harm, he ultimately went the extra mile there, since he helped Ursula and her father make up and restore their relationship. That relationship was already a problem before he entered the picture, so he left things better than he found them. And then AU Hook sacrificed his life for Emma and Henry, who were virtual strangers to him. He made the sacrifice not because he loved Emma and because Henry is the product of most of the people he's ever loved, but because he was putting their cause ahead of himself. I hate the way they throw the terms "villain" and "hero" around on this show, and it's been overused, but Hook may have actually earned it now.

 

He also had a rather interesting reversal of Rumple's situation in "The Crocodile," in that he was facing nearly impossible odds against someone who's bigger, stronger, and more skilled and experienced, and he's disabled, himself. And yet he picked up the sword and fought.

[OnceUponAJen]

Yes, he did what Rumple was afraid to do for his own wife, the mother of his child....even believing that her fate was be to be left at the mercy of pirates.

Edited May 14, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[getOffMyLawn]

[…] maybe I'm just getting exasperated with the negative turn the boards have taken over the last few months.

If I may, and with all due respect, I think that’s perhaps it.

The point I was attempting to make is that there was but one dissenting opinion concerning Emma’s reaction to AU!Hook’s death. And one opinion against the majority that believed Emma’s reaction was appropriate doesn’t make it a “The show just can’t win with you people!” situation.

I completely agree with you that Emma’s reaction was appropriate, but I don’t see one persons dissenting opinion as worthy of a response of “well, the show is damned if you do and damned if you don’t!”

I’m a long time lurker, originally from TWoP, and one of the things I appreciate about these forums is that viewers examine television shows critically. Which for me is like a breath of fresh air because most mainstream media outlets are generally interested in the fangirl aspect of entertainment. Certainly there’s nothing wrong with wanting to celebrate a show, but everyone consumes their entertainment differently. Some enjoy taking apart a show, almost as if it were a watch, and figuring what makes it tick, or especially, what’s made it stop ticking. There’s pleasure to be had in understanding what’s wrong, what's not working, and figuring out how to fix it (though in truth we are all powerless to do anything about it). It’s for that reason that I wouldn’t want to see critical opinions quashed because for some they aren’t positive in spirit. And by the same token, it’s also for this reason that I like that this forum has a positivity thread that is a positivity safe zone. There’s appreciation for both sides. I wouldn’t want to see the conversations devolve into browbeating posters for being disappointed or unhappy with how the show is being written. I’m not accusing anyone of that, by the way. I'm simply saying that I would be disappointed if this forum ever devolved to that point, which considering this TV series' stunning ability to polarize it's audience, is sadly not outside the realm of possibility.

That’s all I was trying to get at. Pardon the conversational tangent. I’ll now return to my couch out in Lurkerville.

Edited May 14, 2015 by getOffMyLawn

[Dani-Ellie]

I’m a long time lurker, originally from TWoP, and one of the things I appreciate about these forums is that viewers examine television shows critically. Which for me is like a breath of fresh air because most mainstream media outlets are generally interested in the fangirl aspect of entertainment. Certainly there’s nothing with wanting to celebrate a show, but everyone consumes their entertainment differently. Some enjoy taking apart a show, almost as if it were a watch, and figuring what makes it tick, or especially, what’s made it stop ticking. There’s pleasure to be had in understanding what’s wrong, what's not working, and figuring out how to fix it (though in truth we are all powerless to do anything about it). It’s for that reason that I wouldn’t want to see critical opinions quashed because for some they aren’t positive in spirit. And by the same token, it’s also for this reason that I like that this forum has a positivity thread that is a positivity safe zone. There’s appreciation for both sides. I wouldn’t want to see the conversations devolve into browbeating posters for being disappointed or unhappy with how the show is being written.

Replying in the fandom thread.

[FormerMod-a1]

Just because...  (from here)

 

[FormerMod-a1]

Oh, and...

 

[Rumsy4]

How you doin'?

[FormerMod-a1]

And my final one, for now...   It's such hard work looking at pictures of Colin as Hook.  Let me tell you!  ;-) 

 

[Rumsy4]

This is the gif people in tumblr refer to as

BJ!Hook

. (explicit reference warning)

Edited May 14, 2015 by Rumsy4

[FormerMod-a1]

Yep.  I've seen it often, but this is the biggest I've seen it.  (man that sounds dirty)

[sharky]

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

 

Damn, that was a great set up. And seriously, I got worried when I realized we could post pictures on these forums, like people would go overboard or something. I don't feel that way about this current discussion so thank you.

[OnceUponAJen]

LOL sharky! Sometimes those jokes just pop into my head. Damn you, Michael Scott!

[YaddaYadda]

So, hmm, out of curiosity, how does one post pictures on here?

[Rumsy4]

You need to have the image hosted elsewhere. The image can be hosted anywhere, but if you are linking to someone else's website, that may tend to overload their server. It's better to use a website with a large server capacity like tumblr, or instagram, or facebook, etc..I generally upload the image I want to use on tumblr using the "post privately" option. So, only I will be able to see the post. Then, I copy the image url by right clicking the picture/gif. If the image is someone's artwork or gifset, it's better to post a link to the source page rather than posting the image out of context. 

 

To post the picture here, click on the image icon in the menu bar of the posting window. Paste the image url, and viola...

[pezgirl7]

He looks so good wet! I actually had a dream with Hook last night, which doesn't happen often. The amount of time I spend thinking about him, you'd think I'd dream of him all the time, but sadly, no. In my dream, Colin did a promotional video for the show, and he was dressed in his red vest outfit, and it was a musical! And he was really belting out the song (can't remember what he was singing), and hamming it up for the camera, and at one point he was underwater, but still singing! And I remember I was on this board in my dream, and we were all super impressed. :) In another part of my dream, Hook was killed like in the finale, but this time, Emma was holding him and crying, and I was sort of floating over them, and it was actually kind of beautiful, but sad of course.

[YaddaYadda]

pezgirl, you need to go out more often.  Do not stand under the hot sun as your condition might worsen ;)

[Shanna Marie]

You know, the really amusing thing about Dorky!Deckhand!Hook was that, based on what we've seen on panels, interviews, talk shows, etc., there was a lot more of real Colin in that version than there is in Real!Hook. He's shy, a little awkward, easily flustered, and very sweet.

 

Now we need some scenario in which Emma meets Navy!Hook, whether it's traveling in time and running into Lt. Jones or an AU with the Captain Jones who isn't a pirate.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think there's need for a Lt. Jones/Emma meeting just because I think there's a lot of him in current hook. But that could be just me.

[Curio]

Yeah, I'd say the AU adventure is probably the closest thing we'll ever get to a Lt. Jones/Emma meeting. Thinking about it more, Killian's naive personality in the past might actually be part of the reason why AU Hook was able to shake off his timid personality so quickly—he's made that transformation before. Rumple never knew Hook before his frat boy pirate days, so he probably never knew there was a bit of a dorky/naive personality hidden in real Hook to begin with. So I could see Rumple thinking Hook could never shake off being a dorky deckhand and become a hero in the AU world, when little did he know, Killian had actually done just that in real life. Just...hundreds of years ago.

[OnceUponAJen]

You know, the really amusing thing about Dorky!Deckhand!Hook was that, based on what we've seen on panels, interviews, talk shows, etc., there was a lot more of real Colin in that version than there is in Real!Hook. He's shy, a little awkward, easily flustered, and very sweet.

Now we need some scenario in which Emma meets Navy!Hook, whether it's traveling in time and running into Lt. Jones or an AU with the Captain Jones who isn't a pirate.

That must be why JMO likes to make him blush. I'm referring to an interview I saw them do on You Tube right after S2 ended. So cute.

Actually it was an interview after S3A, I think? When Hook goes to New York to get Emma. All these half seasons are confusing me.

Edited May 14, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Shanna Marie]

I think I just mostly want Emma to see him in uniform. Though it's possible that's my own Army brat bias coming through. I have a thing for uniforms.

[Curio]

I think I just mostly want Emma to see him in uniform. Though it's possible that's my own Army brat bias coming through. I have a thing for uniforms.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll wear his uniform when they get married. ;)

[OnceUponAJen]

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll wear his uniform when they get married. ;)

After Charming makes him Admiral of the Royal Navy in the Enchanted Forest.

What? I've thought about this....!

[sharky]

Oh, most women like men in uniforms. I have a crack fic idea on my list of summer fanfic writing with Killian in a UPS uniform. And of course, there's the fanfic I'm almost done with of Killian in a hockey uniform. So yea, I think I may have to make these a series now or something.

[YaddaYadda]

I have a crack fic idea on my list of summer fanfic writing with Killian in a UPS uniform.

 

Not that kind of uniform! 

[Curio]

Please tell me there's a "bend and snap" somewhere in that crack fic...

[sharky]

Why not that kind of uniform? Those UPS guys have to wear tight shorts in the summer! And I wasn't going to include a bend and snap, but i am now!

[Dianthus]

Rumple and Isaac resent guys like Hook and Charming, but Hook especially worked damn hard to get that swagger. He studied and trained and fought, when he could've just coasted on the pretty instead.

 

Does it bother anyone else that Isaac (who's Jewish) has a problem with a WWII vet?

ETA: I mean, the friggin' Nazis were only trying to exterminate his people (among other so-called undesirables).

Edited May 15, 2015 by Dianthus

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking how stupid Blackbeard is for having Hook on his crew. Pirate crews fight as a part of their job, it's what they do. So why would you waste the space and supplies on a cowardly deckhand with no fighting skills? Then again, a twelve year old took out Blackbeard, so I've got to question just how fearsome this pirate captain really is. 

[Curio]

Remember, this is the guy that thought "finterference" was funny.

 

[quiet voice] I also thought "finterference" was funny... [/quiet voice]

[Rumsy4]

So did I. Hehe.

[legaleagle53]

Rumple and Isaac resent guys like Hook and Charming, but Hook especially worked damn hard to get that swagger. He studied and trained and fought, when he could've just coasted on the pretty instead.

 

Does it bother anyone else that Isaac (who's Jewish) has a problem with a WWII vet?

ETA: I mean, the friggin' Nazis were only trying to exterminate his people (among other so-called undesirables).

 

Responding in Isaac's newly-created thread.

[Faemonic]

Thanks to this post in the Morality in Storybrooke thread about how worried the poster was about Emma's free will now being reliant on the Dark One dagger, I suddenly want a crossover fanfic with The Rite where Father Kovac tries to exorcise Emma and the Blue Fairy is all like, "That's not a named demon from Catholic demonology, Father! We came here to Italy from Maine in Canada." And Tinkerbell is all like, "Only TLK from Captain Hook will do it!" And Father Kovac would be all like, "When Father Lucas told me that he believed in Tinkerbell some days, I didn't think he meant that he'd ever actually met a nun who thought she was Tinkerbell." And then Dark Dagger Emma would be all like, "Nooo TLK is too much of a commitment! And also what if the Dark One just tethers itself to somebody else? Remember, it can't even be hatted. I want to get Henry a dog, specifically a giant Rottweiler that pants in Gregorian chants." She says that last part because she is partl eevil, but she will continue to suffer for everybody's sins because she's partlyJesus. And then Hook disguises himself as Father Kovac because of reasons, and the real Father Kovac is like, "Why would you let him in? He doesn't look anything like me!!!!! he has permanent 5 o' clock shadow" And the Blue Fairy is like, "Because I'm shady, obvs" only she doesn't say that because that's not a shady thing to straight out say. Then the Blue Fairy becomes the host of the Dark One and it has no perceivable effect on the Blue Fairy like Blue isn't even SparkleDark but the kris has her real name and all the heroes are like, "The fug??! We thought you were less shady because you died from Marilyn Manson's shadow and got hatted Blue we trusted you, and now that you are completely normal we cannot trust  "  &Emma s like, "Whatever! I want to go home and look at waterscapes with my pirate boyfriend." And Hook will do something with his eyebrows and make some double entendre, but he's still in the cassock so I've got to go pronounce a few rosaries against impure thoughts.

[Mari]

With all of the bad things Hook has done, how is him opening his heart to Emma his deepest, darkest secret? All I can think is that the secret has to be something that only they themselves knew.

This one I can kind of understand.

 

Deepest, darkest secret doesn't only have to refer to the worst thing the person did, but the thing they are most afraid of others knowing. 

 

Being able to care about Emma meant a bunch of things to Hook.  It meant he'd spent the last 200ish years avenging someone, and it was worthless and meaningless.  It meant he was going to be vulnerable, again--both to Emma, and to people doing things to Emma. 

 

It didn't just mean he cared for Emma, it meant he was starting to rewrite a whole chunk of his life--and he knew it.  That would be a "dark" secret in the sense he was maybe not even ready to admit it to himself, let alone say it out loud where it would be made real to himself and other people. 

 

The random villainous things he did?  At that point, he wasn't overly ashamed of them, and most of them he'd have made sure people knew about, in order to enhance his reputation.  Getting one over on Blackbeard?  Point of pride.  Surviving a run-in with Poseidon?  Badge of honor.

 

Or, at least, that's my theory.

[YaddaYadda]

I thought his secret took a lot of courage to admit actually especially when he knew who was on the other side of the would-be bridge.  It was also sort of the ultimate unselfish thing he had done up to that time.

 

Maybe I'm too hard on Snow when it came to her secret, I don't know.  I guess I see it as something designed to hurt Emma, but the writers never followed up on it, so I guess I'll have to stop caring now.

 

I think the difference between Snowing's eggnapping and Hook's secret is that Snowing already knew what they had done.  I mean Hook did lead in with "I kissed Emma" and Emma told him it wasn't a secret since Mary Margaret already knew about it.  So I guess I can call that a little loophole.  David knew and Snow knew, so that's two people, then not really a "secret"?

 

 

It meant he was going to be vulnerable, again--both to Emma, and to people doing things to Emma.

 

As illustrated very well in the season that just ended.  When all is said and done, Hook and Emma should go on vacation, far, far, far away from magical mumbo jumbo and then they can just stay there, forever, far, far, far away from magical mumbo jumbo.  They both deserve peace from the massive fuckery that is Storybrooke.

Edited May 16, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[pezgirl7]

I used to feel that way about his secret, but I still have a hard time thinking it was the "darkest" secret he had. I guess it's just semantics, and people could interpret the word differently. If they just had to tell their deepest secret, I would have no problems with any of the ones told.

[YaddaYadda]

But this show loves being dramatic and it just isn't.  I think that's pretty much the bottom line.  Shattered Sight Spell anyone?  It was supposed to be the worst of the worst.  I don't consider Doc pushing Bashful and telling him to speak to be the worst thing ever.  Ice man isn't an insult either.  I'll give the Echo Caves a pass because at least it advanced some of the plot.

[HoodlumSheep]

The shattered sight spell. I loved it in the Belle Centric with what we saw..but alas, it did not have the same effect the second time around.

Anyways, as I was randomly thinking about Hook today, I've realized I really like his rash temper. Yeah, it gets him into trouble, etc., but at least his short temper makes him a little more unique.

Think about it; Snow doesn't have much of a temper, Belle doesn't, Charming not really, Emma manages to stay cool for a lot of stuff, Rumple doesn't lose his cool that often, and I guess Regina has a temper, but she seems permanently grumpy, so...*shrugs*

I don't know, sorry for the randomness.

[Shanna Marie]

Deepest, darkest secret doesn't only have to refer to the worst thing the person did, but the thing they are most afraid of others knowing.

I think that's the key. He may not feel great now about letting Emma know the specifics of his past bad deeds, but in general he doesn't try to hide the fact that he was bad in the past, and none of those things make him vulnerable. Admitting that he was falling in love with Emma in front of her and in front of her parents, who mostly thought of him as a villain at that time, and as part of the effort to save Neal, made him very vulnerable. It was also a catch-22 -- by revealing his love, he was making it possible to save the man she might very well love and want to be with, but he wouldn't be worthy of her if he didn't help save Neal. No matter what he did, he stood a chance of losing her, but by opening himself up, he risked being hurt.

 

I mean Hook did lead in with "I kissed Emma" and Emma told him it wasn't a secret since Mary Margaret already knew about it.  So I guess I can call that a little loophole.  David knew and Snow knew, so that's two people, then not really a "secret"?

But Hook knew about David being poisoned, which was his "secret," so if it doesn't work if two people knew it, that wouldn't have counted.

[didia]

I don't think Killian was ever a villain. I see his character as a wild card. Yes, he did terrible things, like shooting Belle, but he wasn't trying to kill random peasants, or destroying people's lives. Even in his worse, he recovered Aurora's heart and "saved" the life of the guy Cora turned into fish. He was a grey/darker character for sure, but he felt real.

 

He doesn't look like a fairytale character. He knows sometimes the good won't win (Liam), and the powerful and corrupt may prevail ( The king and Rumple). It's very difficult to believe that he came from the same place as Snow, Charming, Regina and the others. Even if his world has magic, it looks more layered somehow. (that is why it was weird when he started to believe that villains don't get happy endings or whatever)

 

I think it depends on your opinion if a quest for revenge turns someone into a villain. I saw lots of movies and read books that didn't treat it that way. To me his quest to kill the Dark one, is like some knight's quest to kill the dragon who destroyed his village. What made it wrong is that he involved innocent people, even if I'm quite sure he viewed Belle as a enabler ( and I would have to agree with him here, until episode 4x11, when she ordered the Dark One to leave the town).

 

The centuries he dedicated to grieve and hate made him miserable, and took his chance to find love again, a life wasted indeed, but didn't hurt anyone else besides him. He looked more like a tragic, bitter character, even desperate. He didn't want power or treasure, he wanted to kill his monster or die trying.

 

I see season 2/3 Killian as an anti-hero. It is easier to identify with characters like Killian and Emma. They are cynic, and practical people. Even as lieutenant Jones, he knew that "heroes don't kill" isn't this absolute concept, like people in Storybrooke believe in. He reminds me of a darker version of Edmond Dantes.

The worst thing is that the Enchanted Forest doesn't have a good juridical system, and with royals like Snow , people like Regina and Rumple would never be punished. So, there is no justice, what makes vengeance an option to people like him, who can't let go of the pain.

 

Actually, I don't like the term "villain", it is too "black and white". I think Regina, Rumple, Cora and Pan are the only ones deserving it. Ingrid and Zelena probably needed Archie's help. Ursula wasn't a real villain. Cruella was neutralised, and Maleficent is difficult to classify. I would say she is a redeemed/ retired villain.

Edited May 26, 2015 by didia