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Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the MCU


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One of the things that stood out to me most in AoU was that the whole flying Sokovia thing could have been fixed if Skye HAD been there. If she had been on the helicarrier should could have just shaken the giant meteor until it broke up into little pieces. Which was exactly what Tony did with Thor's help. So... that means that Skye is just as powerful as two Avengers working together? 

 

I don't know... if you had told me at the beginning of season 2 that Skye would show up in AoU I'd have been pissed. But her character has come a long way an I don't think I would have minded a cameo at all at this point. 

 

It's just interesting to contemplate the different power levels at play here. 

  • Love 1

Am I the only one somewhat creeped out by Steve first dating Peggy and then her relative (I think it happens in the comics)? It just feels so much like "replacement goldfish" trope. Like, it didn't work with one, let's try the other. Not as bad as Oliver Queen's sister swapping, but still, I'm just not a huge fan of this idea.

 

Having seen AoU, I am saddened by the treatment of Natasha. I didn't mind the stuff about sterilization - it didn't even cross my mind that it would be considered problematic, but I'm childfree so I rarely get bothered by this stuff. But her romance with Bruce felt really off and I hated that basically all of her 1 on 1 scenes were with him and her relationships with Clint and Steve (which are far more interesting, imho) got the shaft. And the romance itself felt so... perfunctory and forced. I think the movie showed that Joss should stick to TV. If AoU were a TV season, it would have worked much better. There were a lot of ideas here - too much for one movie, I'm afraid. I did dig some of them, I really loved Tony, for instance, more than I liked him in his own movies - but it was really overstuffed. In a way, it was more interesting than the first movie, and definitely more complex, but the first movie was just more fun.

 

I do wonder if Bruce/Natasha was actually Joss' idea or not. I'm simply really curious about it because I'm a big Whedon fan and most of the time, I understand why he writes something even if it doesn't work. But here, the execution was very much off. Maybe it would work if stretched out through several movies, but AoU wasn't enough by itself. 

 

As for AoS tie-ins, I don't really care that much. Would be nice, I suppose, but it's a billion-dollar-grossing movie vs a struggling TV show. I wouldn't acknowledge it too, TBH.

Am I the only one somewhat creeped out by Steve first dating Peggy and then her relative (I think it happens in the comics)? It just feels so much like "replacement goldfish" trope. Like, it didn't work with one, let's try the other. Not as bad as Oliver Queen's sister swapping, but still, I'm just not a huge fan of this idea.

 

To be fair, Peggy and Steve never actually dated -- they didn't have time to.  They just flirted and had one passionate kiss before Steve went off to face Red Skull and wound up in the ocean.  From that point, Peggy become "the one that could have been."

(edited)

I agree with Spartan Girl, Peggy and Steve barely dated. They are each other's What coud've been but never was. That's a hard one to pin point. Could they have been the love each other's lives, maybe. They'll just never know. 

 

It is better that Sharon is her niece, meaning the daughter of Peggy's brother (since she has the last name) that Steve never met. 

 

Hayley Atwell said she'd love to meet Peggy's family and she's assuming Peggy has a brother as well with Sharon being a Carter. But I suppose the sister could've never married or kept her last name. Either way Peggy has a sibling that has a child that becomes an agent of SHIELD.

Edited by Sakura12

Yeah, Peggy/Steve was a big deal for both of them. I think keeping her identity from him was a key thing for her and I think Cap (with a little help from Natasha) got interested in her as a person. Of course when she turned out to be one of Fury's people that put a spanner in the works. I think that in the upcoming movie she'll keep her identity from him. It'd be better if Steve liked this girl who turned out to be Peggy's niece rather than his interest in her being driven by that connection. 

One of the things that stood out to me most in AoU was that the whole flying Sokovia thing could have been fixed if Skye HAD been there. If she had been on the helicarrier should could have just shaken the giant meteor until it broke up into little pieces.

Oh God that would have been terrible. You can't use a person most of the audience knows absolutely nothing about and has no attachment to and use her to save the world. Especially not without set up. At least in the movie side of the MCU, enhanced individuals appear to be rare. I don't know that we've been shown an enhanced person in the movies whose powers and backstory haven't been explained. So I don't think they can show a cameo of Skye as Quake until Inhumans become established in the movies without confusing the audience.

Also, I don't think they've proven on the show that Skye's powerful enough to break apart a city turned meteor, never mind one reinforced with vibranium, and be able to do it under that kind of pressure. We only saw her shake the mountain, not break it up. Jiaying even told her that in that scene that she can't hurt the mountain. She caused an avalanche, which while visually impressive, is just snow and debris sliding down a mountain at a high enough velocity to cause damage to objects in its path. That's not on the same level as blasting a giant hunk of rock and metal to bits.

  • Love 2

I agree as well. I wouldn't want Steve knowing who Sharon is related to when he falls for her. I think that is why they hid her identity in the movies so far. She's only gone by "Kate" and Agent 13. Only comic book fans would know that Agent 13 is Sharon Carter, niece of Peggy Carter. Plus you'd think she wouldn't even want to go by her last name with people thinking she got the job because she's related to one of the founders of SHIELD. 

 

I just feel don't feel that Steve dating the niece of the woman he never dated is as gross as all the sisters sex that Arrow has shown. I don't deny that Peggy and Steve were the great love of each other's lives and I would rather him find someone that is not related to her to date. However we don't know what they are going to do since they changed the because comics with Natasha/Bruce, which never happened not even in alt universes (which in one of those Nat married and had a kid with Steve). 

Peggy and Sharon looked very similar in the comics, and their secret-agent work was also more similar, so the films have reduced the ickiness there already. Sharon was Peggy's younger sister in the 60s, when that timeline made sense, she's been changed to her niece (and should probably be her grand-niece, yes).

When SHIELD appears in films, it'd be nice to see a quick cameo from Agents characters who don't really need any explanation for people who don't watch the show.

Yeah, grand niece would work better age-wise and have less icky factor for those that are bothered by it. I've shipped them since the first time I saw that movie. So I'm exceedingly happy they've cast her.

 

Sharon/Steve is clearly being set up. Firstly, they named her Agent 13, who's obviously Sharon Carter, a surname that would resonate with Cap. That alone is a story to be explored on its own merits, Cap going on a mission with Peggy's (grand) niece and kicking butt (she's CIA now but what's to stop that happening anyway?) But secondly, the Russo brothers (directors of Winter Soldier and the upcoming Civil War and both Avengers movies i.e. they have 3 more movies to play around with this character) decided to deliberately plant a romantic angle into the Sharon/Steve interactions. Prior to the Agent 13 reveal, Natasha more than once nudged Cap towards his neighbour and his interaction with her showed that he wasn't averse to the idea. That was both an unnecessary development and also subtle enough to indicate that Marvel intended to develop it further. 

 

In AoU, Thor spoke with pride about Jane, Tony wanted to get Pepper a farm for them to settle down in, Barton showed us his family, Natasha and Bruce had something going on. Leaving Cap alone without a pairing. In a world of billion dollar franchises, no way Cap goes without a love interest. Natasha is clearly not gonna happen, so Sharon is the only remaining viable one left.

I think the fact that she's in the next CA is also a point towards her being his LI. But like others I'd rather he fall for her then find out she's Peggy's grand niece. Although I do wonder how much Sharon knows about Steve. I can't imagine Peggy would talk too much about Steve when she was married and had kids with someone else. She would probably know that her Great Aunt knew Captain America but not what he meant to her. Until now of course, if Alzheimer suffer Peggy thinks she's in the 1940's and talks about loving Steve. 

Peggy is over 90 years old.  For Steve's neighbor to be her niece, either her brother is much younger or he married really late in life.  I'd feel better if she weren't a relative.  But I still would like to see her show up on the show.  Not as much as I enjoy seeing Hill, though.

 

Maybe Sharon's her grand niece then. 

I'm sure she has to be.  The niece explanation for comic book Sharon Carter was invented in the 1960s.  Clearly the entire Marvel Time Line has advanced since the 1960s... even if the front end of it based in WWII is stuck there (which has probably also resulted in Tony Stark being a much later child of Howard than he otherwise would have been).

(edited)

With the cast list released, Captain America: Civil War is looking more like the Avengers 2.5: Civil War. 

 

Avengers

Captain America (Chris Evans)

Iron Man (Robert Downey Jr.)
Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson)
Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner)

New Avengers
Falcon (Anthony Mackie)
War Machine (Don Cheadle)
The Vision (Paul Bettany)
Scarlet Witch (Elizabeth Olsen)

Probably Even more New Avengers

Black Panther (Chadwick Boseman)

Agent 13 (Emily VanCamp)

Ant-Man (Paul Rudd)

Spiderman (Uknown)

Edited by Sakura12

I felt pretty meh on the Cap 1 the first time I saw it, but I rewatched it just before Agent Carter began and enjoyed it much more. I still don't find the Red Skull portion of the movie that interesting, but I have a new appreciation for the character work between all the good guys. And now I can't get enough of Peggy, so the movie bumped up on my person MCU ratings list just for that.

To be fair, in the comics Steve came to love Sharon for her own merits and not because of the fact she was Peggy's grandniece. But I agree that he shouldn't find out until after they hook up...

Boy after how pissy he got when he found out she was an undercover agent in Winter Soldier, imagine what his reaction will be to this bombshell...

The best way to handle the relationship of Sharon Carter with Peggy Carter is to, in my opinion, not have them be related. Here's an example throwaway line (in, I guess an opening montage to Civil War):

Captain America: "I'm sorry about my behavior before, but we've never been formally introduced. I'm Steve."

Sharon: "I'm Agent Carter, but you can call me Sharon."

Captain America: "Carter? You aren't related to a Peggy Carter, are you?"

Sharon: "Nooo... but I have heard of her."

Captain America: "Of course you have."

I don't see how you decide to make Skye Quake without plans to put her in the next Advengers movie minimum with hopes she catches on and gets her own movie. Quake is way to powerful superhero to ignore if they want to balance out the male female ratio a bit in the Advengers and the MCU movies and why put a Advengers member on SHIELD then not use them. Also they don't have a superpower Aslan in the main MCU movie verse. Same except asian for Mockingbird I expect to see both on the big screen. Time line though Advengers 2 was already mostly planed out before these decisions to bring Mockingbird and Quake into SHIELD plus both Bobbie and Skye are really busy in the time line and Quake has not had time to learn her powers and loyalties to settle in. I still think there a chance that Coulson, Mockingbird and Quake to all show up in additional content for the Advengers 2 disk sales.

 

If they did not want Skye to be in the movie MCU they would have made her a lessor or even made new Marvel hero. And no need for Bobbie to be Mockingbird to be a kick ass agent could have gave her a non Advengers cool nickname. 

 

Now that serious talk of a SHEILD spin off is out there I expect that Marvil will tend to put more Agents of Shield into the movie verse as they are clearly locked into SHEILD being a long term thing. Sort of following the comics model you don't have to read the other book when it is hinted in the main story your following to enjoy the story. But if your a major fan you will have to have it all. 

 

Did not realize this was the good place to vent my double face palm level of gods that's stupid with Advengers 2 having the worlds heavy eliminated nuclear weapons as a threat to wipe out the planet when the nuclear launch codes are actually written on paper so "sort of hard to hack".  So I put it in the episode thread wonder if I should edit out there. There has never been anywhere close to enough explosive power to kill the worlds population or even all of the US population for that matter the claim this was possible was based on very bad math. Nuclear winter claims for the top of cold wars are even doubtful considering the power of the The Great Tambora Eruption 1815  at least half maybe more than all of the worlds nuclear weapons in size only caused the Year without a Summer. I never have understood the need to stretch for all the people in the world when 100's of millions dead is bad enough to act. 

Worse in the movie the nuclear arsenals have never been on a networked system and require several people all acting at once to launch, two in the silo and two in the control center minimum for silo launches once the codes are sent to them. The system is pre internet and networked computers and for obvious reasons has been kept that way. The nuclear launch codes are actually kept on paper in the nuclear footballs and in vaults. The codes are imputed at the site of the bomb to get the nuclear trigger to work. 

(edited)

Am I going to have to watch The Age of Ultron to follow the story?

 

Looks like it's not getting as good reviews as the first Avengers movie.

 

I still haven't seen Winter Soldier yet.

It depends people who bought into the MCU as a whole seem to love it more then the casual viewer as we appreciate all the little Easter egg moments. both on the show to the movie and the movie to the show For you I would say no. Since you haven't seen The Winter Soldier and watching Agents of SHIELD go buy or rent that one as it is needed to follow the story, where as Age of Ultron just glances at the TV story.

 

Speculation about the seemingly aborted spin off with Mockingbird and Hunter. It was going to be STRIKE, not SWORD as I speculated before. The helicarrier was in a secret London hanger before flying to the rescue in Age of Ultron. And Hunter, the SAS trooper then mercenary now SHIELD Agent who put down one Hydra leader could have become Captain Britain if he was enhanced in some way. The book made it Merlin who enhanced him but we know Dr Strange and Iron Fist are coming so the mystical will be in play  along with a lot of terragin mist 

Edited by Raja

I'd love to see Captain Britain, but I want the real Brian Braddock. No offense to Hunter, I actually really enjoy the character and actor. I'd assume that Marvel has the rights to Captain Britain, Excalibur notwithstanding. I wonder about Betsy, though. I know Psylocke was in The Last Stand and will be in the next one, but I could conceivably see her as a dual rights character like Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. MCU could stick with her original appearance while Fox uses her Asian likeness in their movies. They could obviously do Captain Britain without her, but I like the two of them together.

I know Psylocke was in The Last Stand and will be in the next one, but I could conceivably see her as a dual rights character like Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. 

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are dual rights purely for the reason that they primarily appeared in The Avengers comic book vs. the X-books (although admittedly their first appearance, in 1964, was in an X-book, they were transfered over to The Avengers in 1965 and stayed there on and off for decades).  

 

Psylocke's status I suppose would depend on how the rights to the Marvel UK imprint were absorbed into the movie deals (if they were at all).  The character existed for a full decade apparently before she made the jump from Marvel UK to Marvel proper, so that's something to consider.  

(edited)

To be fair, in the comics Steve came to love Sharon for her own merits and not because of the fact she was Peggy's grandniece. But I agree that he shouldn't find out until after they hook up...

 

Obviously I'd advocate this too but mainly to advance Cap's characterisation. However, how about her point of view? What possible good reason would she have to hook up with Captain America without telling him she is related to Peggy? It really takes her characterisation back a few steps. She flirted with him because maybe she liked him a little bit and it was also her job to be closer to him but in the new movie once they go for a date, or something, what good reason would she have for not coming clean? I doubt she wouldn't know Peggy/Steve connection. Natasha didn't seem to know Peggy but Sharon would, she's a family legend, maybe that's why she joined SHIELD in the first place. It's a fine line to tread, hooking them up without damaging both of their characterisations.

Edited by Boundary

Rocket The system is pre internet and networked computers and for obvious reasons has been kept that way.

 

I'm sure you're correct (I could Google it to confirm but would rather not show up on any CIA Watch List!) but I'm pretty sure they ultimately are activated electronically. Since Ultron operate on "Comic Book Physics", I'm OK with them saying "Its an electronic system - Ultron can get into it."

Obviously I'd advocate this too but mainly to advance Cap's characterisation. However, how about her point of view? What possible good reason would she have to hook up with Captain America without telling him she is related to Peggy? It really takes her characterisation back a few steps. She flirted with him because maybe she liked him a little bit and it was also her job to be closer to him but in the new movie once they go for a date, or something, what good reason would she have for not coming clean? I doubt she wouldn't know Peggy/Steve connection. Natasha didn't seem to know Peggy but Sharon would, she's a family legend, maybe that's why she joined SHIELD in the first place. It's a fine line to tread, hooking them up without damaging both of their characterisations.

They could become interested in each other before going on a proper date. After which, the question of her being Peggy's relative could actually work as a temporary roadblock.

  • Love 1

Okay, so Fury's back in the mix, but he's not back in charge of SHIELD.  Unless he pulls another cavalry-to-the-rescue move in the finale, which is always a possibility.  But for now, the Avengers and SHIELD are two separate organizations.

 

Except at the same time that Coulson was supposed to be rebuilding SHIELD, he was also building Fury's backup organization with a mothballed helicarrier, which apparently no one thought would be useful to a reconstituted SHIELD.  And they lost track of an entire aircraft carrier and its crew while they were specifically looking for old SHIELD resources.  And the aircraft carrier managed to pick up some new resources of their own, from the science academy, which Coulson also lost track of.  And everyone is using money that was squirreled away before CA:TWS since no one except Maria Hill has a source of funding.

 

Yes?

Except at the same time that Coulson was supposed to be rebuilding SHIELD, he was also building Fury's backup organization with a mothballed helicarrier, which apparently no one thought would be useful to a reconstituted SHIELD.  And they lost track of an entire aircraft carrier and its crew while they were specifically looking for old SHIELD resources.  And the aircraft carrier managed to pick up some new resources of their own, from the science academy, which Coulson also lost track of.  And everyone is using money that was squirreled away before CA:TWS since no one except Maria Hill has a source of funding.

Yes?

 

How was RealSHIELD not trying to snag the helicarrier as well ?  Since Black Widow posted all the SHIELD info to the web at the end of CA:TWS, everyone should have known where the mothballed helicarrier was located, including Hydra -- and everyone should have known about the existence of aircraft carrier as well.  But Coulson's team seemed to have no clue what happened to the aircraft carrier and for good measure weren't even looking for it.

 

In addition, Hydra should have been making runs at taking control of the helicarrier all this time, if anything just to deny it to anyone else.

  • Love 1

If they did not want Skye to be in the movie MCU they would have made her a lessor or even made new Marvel hero. And no need for Bobbie to be Mockingbird to be a kick ass agent could have gave her a non Advengers cool nickname. 

I think you're overestimating the extent to which to Film and TV divisions of Marvel studios work together. Skye has Avengers level powers and a nickname because that's what the show runners wanted, and they have no input over who gets added into the Avengers line up. So far, the show has been allowed to react to the content of the movies, but it's never been given the opportunity to really participate in the movies and we've seen no evidence that that's something that's going to change. Even this year's tie ins with AoU were all clearly written into the show after AoU was already completed, rather than something that was baked into the show from the beginning of the season.

I think the closest Skye is ever likely to become to being an Avenger is if they decide to do a TV spinoff centered around a smaller superhero team up, not unlike what they plan to do with the Defenders on Netflix or what DC's doing with their newest CW show for next fall.

  • Love 1

I think you're overestimating the extent to which to Film and TV divisions of Marvel studios work together. Skye has Avengers level powers and a nickname because that's what the show runners wanted, and they have no input over who gets added into the Avengers line up. all.

Skye only has the nickname "Quake" to bring her somewhat in line with comic book Daisy Johnson. Which they did mostly to be an easter egg to the fans, and possibly as an ego-sop to Brian Michael Bendis (who's not directly involved in the show, but who I think they'd like to have on their side).  But the codename isn't even USED on the show.

  • Love 1
(edited)

Doesn't Wheadon have creative control over the Avengers movies too, in addition to being the SHIELD show runner?

 

I'm sure Marvel has final say but they presumably want both the series and movies to do well, as does Disney?

He's not really the TV showrunner (or rather he is in name, but not in actuality). His brother mostly is (but only in part--Jed Whedon's wife, Maurissa Tancharoen, is the third leg of that triad).

 

But yes, overall it means that whatever the Whedons want, collectively, gets done on both TV and in the movies.  Well, unless Disney overrules them.  Which it always can.

Edited by Kromm

Doesn't Wheadon have creative control over the Avengers movies too, in addition to being the SHIELD show runner?

 

I'm sure Marvel has final say but they presumably want both the series and movies to do well, as does Disney?

No, Joss Whedon retired after Avengers II, his brother Jed served as the show runner for Agents of SHIELD. And the big thought is who does have creative control? Customarily it was the movie director and a TV show's producer/show runner but now we have the Cinematic Universe with Kevin Fiege in charge, With the tie ins or lack of tie ins between the TV series and future movies which Whedon seems to have pushed against when he wanted a stand alone movie while Feige is building an integrated universe

  • Love 1

Skye only has the nickname "Quake" to bring her somewhat in line with comic book Daisy Johnson. Which they did mostly to be an easter egg to the fans, and possibly as an ego-sop to Brian Michael Bendis (who's not directly involved in the show, but who I think they'd like to have on their side). But the codename isn't even USED on the show.

Yup. Also interesting is the fact that Skye, along with other AoS characters, has made appearances in the comics as a completely separate character from Daisy Johnson. From what I understand, while Jed and Maurissa always hoped that Skye would really be Daisy since they're big fans of the character, they didn't receive permission from Marvel to make that happen until after the series had already begun.

Skye could always lose her powers somehow, either voluntarily (she sees the Inhumans in a bad light and decides her powers are more dangerous than good) or involuntarily (the Inhumans find some way to strip her of her powers, because she sides with SHIELD or because they find out Jiyang lied to them about Skye being her daughter).   This allows her to be around without all the "why isn't she fighting with the Avengers" questions, and she can always re-acquire her powers later if they want to re-Quake her.

Skye could always lose her powers somehow, either voluntarily (she sees the Inhumans in a bad light and decides her powers are more dangerous than good) or involuntarily (the Inhumans find some way to strip her of her powers, because she sides with SHIELD or because they find out Jiyang lied to them about Skye being her daughter).   This allows her to be around without all the "why isn't she fighting with the Avengers" questions, and she can always re-acquire her powers later if they want to re-Quake her.

Do their own twist on the plot of the hated X-Men 3? I think that is the last possibility.

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