S03.E01: A Death In The Family

[radishcake]

Watch the teaser!

http://www.aetv.com/bates-motel/video/becoming-psycho

[Fable]

This looks absolutely creep-tastic. 

 

I hope Dylan gets the Hell outta Dodge right quick, or I don't see good things in his future.  In fact, I don't see he has much of a future at all! 

[BatmanBeatles]

Ooo I love it!

 

I hope they do something with the pot story. I think it's a snooze.

[peacheslatour]

Is this forum coming back to the front page when the new season premiers next Monday?

[Portia]

Is this forum coming back to the front page when the new season premiers next Monday?

You may already know this, peacheslatour, but if you will just follow the show, then you won't have to go looking for it on the Forums master list. Since I follow every show I watch regularly, I just click the blue "My Shows" button when I log in, and I can see immediately whether there has been any activity in Bates Motel because I've set My Shows to sort by Last Update Time. :-)

[Tara Ariano]

But to answer your question, peaches: yes.

[peacheslatour]

Thanks, guys!

[Primetimer]

Norma's blithe disregard for the American Pediatric Association's guidelines on co-sleeping may actually be the lesser of the problematic parental behaviors in this episode.

Read the story

[natyxg]

Well damn, I thought this was pretty boring. And Norman is getting to be way too creeptastic for my taste. I know that's part of the point of the show, but tonight it felt like the scale is starting to lean more towards creep and less towards sweet Norman. Meh.

 

Poor Emma. Run, Emma, run! Or like, get in the car and press the gas real hard!

Edited March 10, 2015 by natyxg

[green]

I got to say the sheriff was awesome at the bar.  He should go join Ragnar on Vikings asap.

 

We'll we got our first shower prequel scene.  Our little Norman is growing up into the real Norman right before our eyes.  I like that Norman's basic defense was: "The racoon made me do it." 

 

Wonder where the Room #4 young woman's body parts ended up and what Norman will do with his brand new car he won't be able to explain away.

 

Interesting there were no previews for next week or did I somehow miss them?

[Avaleigh]

I actually thought the episode was pretty packed. 

 

Norma actually had me fooled for a few minutes. She forces Norman to go to school and she seems like she wants him to at least attempt to be normal. She draws a line about Norman sleeping in her bed and forces him to go even though she wants him to stay but of course a few scenes later she has to break her resolve about changing their fucked up dynamic because of her mother's death, so the relationship between mother and son continues to stay on the twisted track.

 

Interesting that Dylan omitted the fact that he already knew about his grandmother's death when he had the conversation with Norman. He feels inclined to protect Caleb on some level.

 

I think it makes sense for the creep factor to bump up for Norman each season. His latest victim reminded me of Vinessa Shaw.

 

I don't get why Norman isn't sexually attracted to Emma. It's like he sees her as a sister. Funny that he has a healthier relationship with her than with Norma.  

 

Over at TWoP I theorized that Norma and Caleb had a consensual incestuous relationship and this episode seems to be pointing in that direction. If nothing else I think she was lying about what happened exactly and that Dylan was on point for calling her on it even though he doesn't know exactly what is going on. 

 

Looking forward to next week. My DVR cut off so I'm not sure if there were previews or not.

[natyxg]

Norma actually had me fooled for a few minutes. She forces Norman to go to school and she seems like she wants him to at least attempt to be normal. She draws a line about Norman sleeping in her bed and forces him to go even though she wants him to stay but of course a few scenes later she has to break her resolve about changing their fucked up dynamic because of her mother's death, so the relationship between mother and son continues to stay on the twisted track.

 

This totally reminded me of a South Park episode. Some dog trainer comes and trains Eric to be obedient. Everything starts to go right: he starts doing chores, losing weight, doing well in school.... until the trainer leaves and his mom starts to feel lonely again and using him to fill her void. That was pretty much the same thing.

 

Over at TWoP I theorized that Norma and Caleb had a consensual incestuous relationship and this episode seems to be pointing in that direction. If nothing else I think she was lying about what happened exactly and that Dylan was on point for calling her on it even though he doesn't know exactly what is going on.

 

I don't think Norma had to be necessarily lying. In Caleb's mind it could've been consensual, but it was not for Norma, specially if she was younger than him. Maybe to him she was into it too, but in reality she was just too afraid and felt abused.

[Racj82]

Well damn, I thought this was pretty boring. And Norman is getting to be way too creeptastic for my taste. I know that's part of the point of the show, but tonight it felt like the scale is starting to lean more towards creep and less towards sweet Norman. Meh.

 

Poor Emma. Run, Emma, run! Or like, get in the car and press the gas real hard!

In the movies, he was a murderer and peeping Tom with tremendous mommy issues and a split personality. He had all of this while being one of the kindest people you can meet on the surface. They aren't doing anything with Norman that wasn't already established. The sweet and the creepy go hand and hand with him.

 

 

I don't get why Norman isn't sexually attracted to Emma. It's like he sees her as a sister. Funny that he has a healthier relationship with her than with Norma.

It's the best thing for Emma because him killing her may be a bridge too far with me. I would still watch but I would be gutted. And as long as he isn't sexually attracted to her, she will live. Any woman he wants to have sex with is toast (which is probably the real reason why Norma eventually bites the dust).

Edited March 10, 2015 by Racj82

[Bec]

I think Dylan didn't tell Norma he already knew grandma died because he is trying to protect Norma and Norman from Caleb. He wanted Caleb to get out of town ASAP not only because he doesn't want to deal with Caleb any longer than he has to, but also because he doesn't want Caleb to cross paths with Norman and Norma.

 

I was rewatching some of season 2 on Netflix and Norman has been spooning Norma since that time he comforted her after Caleb showed up and wouldn't leave the town and she was scared to go out to the town because of that.

 

I can believe Norma was inappropriately close to Caleb because of their shared childhood trauma, just like she is inappropriately close with Norman. But actual consentual sex? Not so much. I think Caleb took their closeness as an invitation to have sex with her, so of course he doesn't think he raped her. The way Caleb won't take no for answer when Dylan kept telling him to gtfo... I don't think it's a stretch that Caleb is a rapist.

 

Didn't Norma say she was 13 years old at the time? And she blurted this out all confession-like at the end of season one when she thought she was going to die later that night. It would just seem all kinds of wrong in so many ways if the writers ever turn around and say she lied about being raped, so I sure hope they don't. Because there are all kinds of unfortunate implications (to say the least) if they actually say a thirteen-year-old child was asking for it.

 

Anyway... after all our complaints last season that pot is legal now, I'm glad that was addressed on the show. But I have a feeling Dylan's totally legal artisanal pot farm isn't going to do very well. Now that he has turned down the job of being Romero's puppet drug kingpin, his weed farm will probably be wrecked by other farmers of the illegal variety who want to fill the power vacuum and don't want any other weed vendor operating in their territory. If he's just looking to get by, maybe he should plant some nice poinsettias or something.

[Lostinthehouse]

 

Interesting there were no previews for next week or did I somehow miss them?

 

Previews showed during "The Returned".  Weird placement, but I'm telling no spoilers for next week because . . .  yowza!

[Racj82]

Previews showed during "The Returned".  Weird placement, but I'm telling no spoilers for next week because . . .  yowza!

Cables shows do this to lure people into continuing to watch a new show because you are waiting for the preview.

[Chaos Theory]

My creeptastic show is back!!!

I know it is wrong but I love me some Norma and Norman. Their scenes in bed together were fantastically creepy especially the last one. The look on Norma's face when Norman got into bed with her was full of such joy. And they spoon!!!!

I love this show.

[Fable]

It's the best thing for Emma because him killing her may be a bridge too far with me. I would still watch but I would be gutted. And as long as he isn't sexually attracted to her, she will live. Any woman he wants to have sex with is toast (which is probably the real reason why Norma eventually bites the dust).

 

I agree with this sentiment in general, but I also think it stems from mommy issues.  If he is attracted to someone that Norma wouldn't approve of, well then.....

 

Emma, on the other hand, Norma loves, so I think (hope) she is perfectly safe. 

[ganesh]

I think it makes sense for the creep factor to bump up for Norman each season.

 

I'm assuming the show is going to be a shorter, Breaking Bad type run, than going on for 7,8 years. So it makes sense that Norman would be creepier this year. Additionally, wasn't there a bit of a time jump? He clearly wasn't over the teacher's death, and of course, Norma only made it worse in the ensuing time before we picked up again here. 

 

Over at TWoP I theorized that Norma and Caleb had a consensual incestuous relationship and this episode seems to be pointing in that direction.

 

This is what I got out of the Caleb/Dylan scene in the truck. It's not like Norma isn't pretty manipulative, and could be grossed out with herself over her past. Maybe Norma freaked out when she got pregnant and ran away. 

 

If he's just looking to get by, maybe he should plant some nice poinsettias or something.

 

It's not like he's got to have his little pot farm here either. Caleb can do whatever the hell he wants. Dylan needs to gtfo. I think sticking around is going to be fatal to him.

 

I don't think Emma is going to bite it because you need at least one or two women in Norman's life who survive. You need some dramatic balance. 

 

I was so creeped out from the opening spooning scene. Stupid me: What if he gets a boner when he's sleeping?! Creeped me even more out. 

 

I liked the shower scene though. It looked like Norman was going into trance/blackout until Norma grabbed him. At least he knew he was wrong this time. 

[green]

Previews showed during "The Returned".  Weird placement, but I'm telling no spoilers for next week because . . .  yowza!

 

Cables shows do this to lure people into continuing to watch a new show because you are waiting for the preview.

 

Thanks for the info.  And if that is what some shows do to get you to watch the next show it backfired totally on them with me.  I would never have believed they would put a sneak preview on a different show.  That kind of manipulation goes too far and irks me out enough that I'd never watch the other show ever now.  Not that I would anyway, hah.

 

But the funny thing about the manipulation was it was done so poorly.  They should have had a voice-over saying there would be a special preview of next week 's Bates Motel during the next show.  Instead I was left with the impression that with no preview they were already going to skip a week until the second episode.  They usually skip or show re-runs of other shows like say NCIS or Big Bang the following week when there are no previews at the end of their episodes. 

 

Glad I asked here.  Thanks for the replies.

 

Instead of adding another post right away.  Ganesh said:  "Additionally, wasn't there a bit of a time jump?"

 

I don't think so.  First season he was a junior in high school.  Second, it became summer vacation.  Now he is a senior in high school ... er ... home school.  I agree with you that  he is growing creepy at about the right pace too because no way this series goes on and on long term. 

 

But I kind of disagree about Emma surviving because there is no Emma around by the time the original film's time frame comes along.  I do think she will survive longer term and goes out either right before or after Norma does.  Maybe one murder triggering the other somehow with Dylan in the mix too.  Or she dies of natural causes -- her medical condition -- which triggers things into their final story arc.  Only way she survives is if she flees town at the last minute but my money is not on that alas.  Not with her medical condition being central to the show so far. 

 

Be interesting to see how they handle the ending for this series when it comes.  I wonder if the show runner had a set ending in mind -- other than Norma's murder -- or had several possibilities open for Emma and Dylan.  Well maybe not as many for Dylan.  The real person the character of Norman Bates was based on (or "inspired by") apparently had a real brother (half-brother, not sure???) who disappeared without a trace and was never found if I recall that correctly.  Which probably lead to this prequel developing said relative into a character given a ready made drama situation handed to them by history. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by green

[BatmanBeatles]

I didn't think this was boring at all. I think this is a good build up to whatever happens.

[Guest]

I'm assuming the show is going to be a shorter, Breaking Bad type run, than going on for 7,8 years. So it makes sense that Norman would be creepier this year. Additionally, wasn't there a bit of a time jump? He clearly wasn't over the teacher's death, and of course, Norma only made it worse in the ensuing time before we picked up again here. 

 

This is what I got out of the Caleb/Dylan scene in the truck. It's not like Norma isn't pretty manipulative, and could be grossed out with herself over her past. Maybe Norma freaked out when she got pregnant and ran away. 

 

It's not like he's got to have his little pot farm here either. Caleb can do whatever the hell he wants. Dylan needs to gtfo. I think sticking around is going to be fatal to him.

 

I don't think Emma is going to bite it because you need at least one or two women in Norman's life who survive. You need some dramatic balance. 

 

I was so creeped out from the opening spooning scene. Stupid me: What if he gets a boner when he's sleeping?! Creeped me even more out. 

 

I liked the shower scene though. It looked like Norman was going into trance/blackout until Norma grabbed him. At least he knew he was wrong this time. 

 

What creeped me out was I think it was implied that Norman was masturbating at the bathroom window, Norma stopped him, and minutes later she's encouraging him to spoon with her in her bed.  Ick.  And poor Norman.  

 

Highmore is doing a great job.  They both are.  

 

Emma's health issue is interesting.  Did they add it to the story so that we wouldn't know for sure if she's gone before the Psycho years due to Norman killing her or due to her own lungs failing?  

 

I watch this show with my teen daughter.  When I dropped her off at high school this morning I asked her if she wanted me to drag her out of the car, yelling at her.  Heh.  

[Sakura12]

Norman spooning with his mother after the kiss from last season is creepier then Norman being a serial killer. 

 

Emma is the only girl that Norma accepts hanging around her son because she has an expiration date. I think Emma's also safe because Norman's not sexually attracted to her and he generally likes her. She's safe from both Norman and Norma because of her personality and her illness. 

 

Poor Dylan he's the only kind of normal one in is f'd up in family. His mother and half brother are in love with each other and sleep together, he's the product of incest between his mother and his uncle. No wonder he just wants to grow pot (legally) and stay in his cabin. I kind of think that Emma and Dylan should hook up and get away from that crazy family and town. 

[Spartan Girl]

Wow.  So did Norman just kill that hooker?  I mean, it's only a matter of time.

 

Norma actually had me fooled for a few minutes. She forces Norman to go to school and she seems like she wants him to at least attempt to be normal. She draws a line about Norman sleeping in her bed and forces him to go even though she wants him to stay but of course a few scenes later she has to break her resolve about changing their fucked up dynamic because of her mother's death, so the relationship between mother and son continues to stay on the twisted track.

 

 

Exactly.  Norman could have gotten help and been all right if it weren't for Norma's pathological need to keep him close.  She's either living in complete denial or quite possibly one of the most manipulative mothers in history.  Or both.  Either way, Norman's past the point of no return now.

 

I did have a good laugh at her (and her hairnet) reaming out Norman for peeping at that girl.  And her dragging Norman out of the car at school.  It only took six minutes into the new season for her to have a freakout.  Oh how I've missed this show...

 

I wonder if Caleb is actually telling the truth.  Doesn't make the incest any less nasty, but we've all seen Norma rewrite history for her own needs a million times before.  And she does love playing the victim to a T.

 

Poor Dylan he's the only kind of normal one in is f'd up in family. His mother and half brother are in love with each other and sleep together, he's the product of incest between his mother and his uncle. No wonder he just wants to grow pot (legally) and stay in his cabin.

 

 

He's doomed.  I wouldn't be shocked if he gets killed off this season...

[natyxg]

In the movies, he was a murderer and peeping Tom with tremendous mommy issues and a split personality. He had all of this while being one of the kindest people you can meet on the surface. They aren't doing anything with Norman that wasn't already established. The sweet and the creepy go hand and hand with him.

 

Yes, but this episode felt like creepy rapist Norman 90% of the time, and it was too much for me. It will kill my interest in him if they go that way, the same way that it would kill my interest in Norma if, say, she became emotionally abusive all the time and we no longer saw her try to be a good mom or how broken she is because she came from such a fucked up family.

 

But the funny thing about the manipulation was it was done so poorly.  They should have had a voice-over saying there would be a special preview of next week 's Bates Motel during the next show.  Instead I was left with the impression that with no preview they were already going to skip a week until the second episode.  They usually skip or show re-runs of other shows like say NCIS or Big Bang the following week when there are no previews at the end of their episodes.

 

I think they did say that the preview was during The Returned. They said it during TR commercials, didn't they? I think so.

 

I can believe Norma was inappropriately close to Caleb because of their shared childhood trauma, just like she is inappropriately close with Norman. But actual consentual sex? Not so much. I think Caleb took their closeness as an invitation to have sex with her, so of course he doesn't think he raped her. The way Caleb won't take no for answer when Dylan kept telling him to gtfo... I don't think it's a stretch that Caleb is a rapist.

 

THIS.

[BatmanBeatles]

I think Emma is Norman's rebound from getting rejected by Norma.

[Garnett7]

The history with Norma and Caleb -- I could see it going either way and I love that the show is ambiguous about that. I could see Norma entering into an incestuous relationship with her brother, then rewriting it in her mind later on to convince herself that none of it was her fault. But I could also see her being inappropriately close to him and him thinking it meant more and taking advantage of that. I do think that, in Caleb's mind, it wasn't rape. I'm not sure if the audience will ever know the turth of what happened with them.

[ganesh]

I don't think Norman was beating off peeping in the window. I think he was just spaced out.

 

I also don't think he killed the escort. It was raining out. I can buy she told him to drive the car back. She can always get a cab since she's in town. I think it was just a fake out. Norman was super creepy this entire episode, and I think killing her now is too much too soon. The show is very slow-burn and killing her now doesn't really fit.

[natyxg]

The history with Norma and Caleb -- I could see it going either way and I love that the show is ambiguous about that. I could see Norma entering into an incestuous relationship with her brother, then rewriting it in her mind later on to convince herself that none of it was her fault. But I could also see her being inappropriately close to him and him thinking it meant more and taking advantage of that. I do think that, in Caleb's mind, it wasn't rape. I'm not sure if the audience will ever know the turth of what happened with them.

 

Norma is a really problematic woman, but I've always felt that the rape/incest story was the one thing she was completely honest about. She seemed so raw about it. The actress really sold it like that to me. So the compromise of the two points of view that works for me is that Caleb was so fucked up at the time that he thought she was into it, but she wasn't and felt scared and coerced because he was her big brother.  I don't remember how much older Caleb is, but if he was too much older than her and/or she was just too young it would've been considered rape either way, I think.

 

The one thing I don't want is the show to twist things around and make Norma the bad guy, that it was all consensual and she lied about that, or she seduced him and is now trying to pin it all on him or something. No thank you.

[Guest]

I don't think Norman was beating off peeping in the window. I think he was just spaced out.

 

I also don't think he killed the escort. It was raining out. I can buy she told him to drive the car back. She can always get a cab since she's in town. I think it was just a fake out. Norman was super creepy this entire episode, and I think killing her now is too much too soon. The show is very slow-burn and killing her now doesn't really fit.

 

I thought his arms were sort of low and in front of him, from Norma's viewpoint.  Then when she was leading him away he seemed to have one jeans pocket turned out, as if he pulled his hand out of his pocket quickly.  It's probably open to interpretation.

 

I think he killed her.  Giving a 16/17 year old boy your sports car the night you meet him is almost more unlikely to me.  She's a prostitute, she probably needs her car close for when a scene goes bad.   

[Chaos Theory]

I didn't think this was boring at all. I think this is a good build up to whatever happens.

 

 

Oh me either considering I come for the Norma and Norman,,,,,,uh relationship.  Yeah we'll go with that.  Yes it is creepy as hell but it is supposed to be and I like it that way.  I loved every scene with them together.   I am truly fascinated by these two.     I could watch Norma and Norman together....and occasionally apart (Hi Ms Watson!) forever.  

[AzureOwl]

Wow.  So did Norman just kill that hooker?  I mean, it's only a matter of time.

 

I don't think so. I was probably a fakeout.

 

The hooker was driving to a "date" with a john, I believe. In a town that small driving around afterwards would've been a little conspicuous, so she may have decided to have Norman drive the car back and take a cab afterwards, once she realized how small the town was.

 

I was ready to rant about that girl being too hot (and having too nice a car) to play the kind of hooker who services johns in a dumpy motel on the side of the highway, but if she's just using the motel as base of operations while visiting the area it makes more sense. We now that some of the townsfolk can afford expensive out-of-town hookers.

Edited March 10, 2015 by AzureOwl

[BatmanBeatles]

Does Gunner have a purpose since he and Emma are no longer an item?

[Avaleigh]

I think Dylan didn't tell Norma he already knew grandma died because he is trying to protect Norma and Norman from Caleb. He wanted Caleb to get out of town ASAP not only because he doesn't want to deal with Caleb any longer than he has to, but also because he doesn't want Caleb to cross paths with Norman and Norma.

 

I was rewatching some of season 2 on Netflix and Norman has been spooning Norma since that time he comforted her after Caleb showed up and wouldn't leave the town and she was scared to go out to the town because of that.

 

I can believe Norma was inappropriately close to Caleb because of their shared childhood trauma, just like she is inappropriately close with Norman. But actual consentual sex? Not so much. I think Caleb took their closeness as an invitation to have sex with her, so of course he doesn't think he raped her. The way Caleb won't take no for answer when Dylan kept telling him to gtfo... I don't think it's a stretch that Caleb is a rapist.

 

Didn't Norma say she was 13 years old at the time? And she blurted this out all confession-like at the end of season one when she thought she was going to die later that night. It would just seem all kinds of wrong in so many ways if the writers ever turn around and say she lied about being raped, so I sure hope they don't. Because there are all kinds of unfortunate implications (to say the least) if they actually say a thirteen-year-old child was asking for it.

 

Anyway... after all our complaints last season that pot is legal now, I'm glad that was addressed on the show. But I have a feeling Dylan's totally legal artisanal pot farm isn't going to do very well. Now that he has turned down the job of being Romero's puppet drug kingpin, his weed farm will probably be wrecked by other farmers of the illegal variety who want to fill the power vacuum and don't want any other weed vendor operating in their territory. If he's just looking to get by, maybe he should plant some nice poinsettias or something.

I don't recall any mention of Norma saying that she was thirteen when Caleb started to rape her. I thought that they were a year apart and that Norma was 16 when she got pregnant with Dylan. 

 

There are a few reasons that I question Norma's story but mainly I think it makes more sense to the plot for there to be more to the story than Norma's version. I feel like if it was just a matter of Caleb being an incestuous rapist that the story would have been wrapped up last season because we already have all of the details under that scenario. I feel like Caleb's comments about how "all they had was each other" was meant to give us pause before completely accepting Norma's version of the story. He also seemed like he was trying to figure out why Norma left and you'd think he wouldn't wonder aloud, it was really more to himself than to Dylan, if he knows deep down that she left because he was regularly assaulting her.

 

I also think that it was important last season that Norma really wanted to know what exactly Caleb told Dylan. She seemed very concerned that her version of events would be contradicted and I wonder why the scene was written that way if this wasn't going to come up later.

 

Another thing that I feel is worth pointing out is that Caleb didn't come into this story to use Norma, Dylan, or Norman. He could have taken advantage of that weird encounter with Norman but he seemed more concerned than anything else. Outside characters are often a threat to the core family on this show but so far Caleb doesn't seem as though he's being written as a villain.

 

With Dylan it seems like Caleb only wants to do the right thing and this doesn't necessarily strike me as the behavior of a douchebag rapist. I'm not saying that any of this makes it impossible for Norma's version of the story to be true just that a few of these details make me think that there's going to be more to the story about Norma and Caleb's relationship. 

 

 

Norma is a really problematic woman, but I've always felt that the rape/incest story was the one thing she was completely honest about. She seemed so raw about it. The actress really sold it like that to me. So the compromise of the two points of view that works for me is that Caleb was so fucked up at the time that he thought she was into it, but she wasn't and felt scared and coerced because he was her big brother.  I don't remember how much older Caleb is, but if he was too much older than her and/or she was just too young it would've been considered rape either way, I think.

 

The one thing I don't want is the show to twist things around and make Norma the bad guy, that it was all consensual and she lied about that, or she seduced him and is now trying to pin it all on him or something. No thank you.

I agree with this too in a way. When she decides to tell Norman about the rape it's because she thinks she might very well die and she wants Norman to know something about her. On the other hand I also wonder if the truth couldn't be more embarrassing and hurtful?

 

Again though, I agree that Norma seemed to be delivering some raw honesty with that confession. 

 

I wonder though then what the point would be in having it seem as though Caleb would think it was consensual. How is that at all beneficial to the story? It's not like Dylan would actually believe that his parents had some great forbidden romance or anything and Caleb doesn't strike me as a complete moron so I don't think he made that comment in order to get sympathy from Dylan although I guess it could be interpreted that way.

 

I love this show, I think it's surprisingly complex.

[Avaleigh]

Oh me either considering I come for the Norma and Norman,,,,,,uh relationship.  Yeah we'll go with that.  Yes it is creepy as hell but it is supposed to be and I like it that way.  I loved every scene with them together.   I am truly fascinated by these two.     I could watch Norma and Norman together....and occasionally apart (Hi Ms Watson!) forever.  

Yeah, I like most aspects of the show but this is the main reason I watch too.

 

Speaking of the fucked up dynamic between Norma and Norman, what the hell was with that line where Norman is like "Move over, you silly woman"? If anybody else said that to Norma she'd be like 'Silly woman?'

[BatmanBeatles]

 

Speaking of the fucked up dynamic between Norma and Norman, what the hell was with that line where Norman is like "Move over, you silly woman"? If anybody else said that to Norma she'd be like 'Silly woman?'

I think it was playful banter and I just made myself sick. lol!

[ganesh]

I dry heaved at that line. No joke. 

[Bec]

Norma was thirteen and the abuse went on for years (I just checked that scene where she tells Norman that in season one). I know some teens start being sexually active very young, but come on. Caleb described her as a "trusting girl" to Dylan in season two. If anyone is in denial about the truth here, I think it is Caleb. And he is in deep, deep denial. Norma is a mess, and this guy is a mega-mess.

 

I trust Caleb even less than I trust Norma. He is clearly trying to worm his way back into Dylan's life, have some kind of uncle-nephew/father-son relationship, and he had lots of time to think about exactly what to say to Dylan. Even after Dylan told him to go, he showed up uninvited at Dylan's cabin like some kind of stalker. Dylan even called bullshit on his excuse about his car breaking down again "Oh, so you drove all the way out here to my cabin when your car broke down."

 

When Norma spilled about her brother raping her in season one, why couldn't she have made up some other story to make Norman feel sorry for her if that was just a fake story for that purpose? Why would that be the story she wants Norman to remember her by when she thought Abernathy would kill her later that night? She had no idea she will live and Caleb will find her in season two. The only explanation that makes sense is she was just satisfying her own need to spill her guts and intensify the bond between Norman and her some more by letting him in on the most hidden part of herself. That required the unvarnished truth. No rewritten history, no lies.

 

She didn't even want to let Dylan in on all this in the first place. That's how Caleb got a chance to bond with Dylan in season two. If Norma was a master manipulator she would have nipped this in the bud and told Dylan that Caleb is a rapist (without telling him Caleb raped her) as soon as she kicked Caleb out of her house and Dylan was asking her why she did that. That way Dylan would have been more cautious of Caleb to begin with.

 

I don't think Norma is a great manipulator at all. Remember that time she tried to manipulate the sheriff? Oh boy, that was embarrassing. Dylan can see right through her a lot of the time, but that time he called her a liar for saying Caleb raped her, he was letting his own bias cloud his judgement. He wanted a nice uncle so badly, Norma was telling him something he didn't want to hear.

 

Uncle-dad is still trying to push those buttons of his. Trying to convince him what Norma told him doesn't feel good, so ignore that and believe my version of events which is much more pleasing to the ear. We're two lonely souls and I need someone to cling to, so let's bond, nephew-son.

 

Thing is, usually when someone tells you something you don't want to hear, that is the truth. Beware of things that sound pleasing!

 

Oh, I think the show brought Caleb back to give us more Bates family drama. I'm looking forward to that. He doesn't have to be a majorly obvious mustache-twirling villain. It's messed up enough that he wants to bond with the nephew-son who wants nothing to do with him. He is wearing Dylan down and he'll be in town for a while, inevitably he'll run into Norman and/or Norma. Can't wait to see what happens then.

[Guest]

I don't recall any mention of Norma saying that she was thirteen when Caleb started to rape her. I thought that they were a year apart and that Norma was 16 when she got pregnant with Dylan. 

 

There are a few reasons that I question Norma's story but mainly I think it makes more sense to the plot for there to be more to the story than Norma's version. I feel like if it was just a matter of Caleb being an incestuous rapist that the story would have been wrapped up last season because we already have all of the details under that scenario. I feel like Caleb's comments about how "all they had was each other" was meant to give us pause before completely accepting Norma's version of the story. He also seemed like he was trying to figure out why Norma left and you'd think he wouldn't wonder aloud, it was really more to himself than to Dylan, if he knows deep down that she left because he was regularly assaulting her.

 

I also think that it was important last season that Norma really wanted to know what exactly Caleb told Dylan. She seemed very concerned that her version of events would be contradicted and I wonder why the scene was written that way if this wasn't going to come up later.

 

Another thing that I feel is worth pointing out is that Caleb didn't come into this story to use Norma, Dylan, or Norman. He could have taken advantage of that weird encounter with Norman but he seemed more concerned than anything else. Outside characters are often a threat to the core family on this show but so far Caleb doesn't seem as though he's being written as a villain.

 

With Dylan it seems like Caleb only wants to do the right thing and this doesn't necessarily strike me as the behavior of a douchebag rapist. I'm not saying that any of this makes it impossible for Norma's version of the story to be true just that a few of these details make me think that there's going to be more to the story about Norma and Caleb's relationship. 

 

 

I agree with this too in a way. When she decides to tell Norman about the rape it's because she thinks she might very well die and she wants Norman to know something about her. On the other hand I also wonder if the truth couldn't be more embarrassing and hurtful?

 

Again though, I agree that Norma seemed to be delivering some raw honesty with that confession. 

 

I wonder though then what the point would be in having it seem as though Caleb would think it was consensual. How is that at all beneficial to the story? It's not like Dylan would actually believe that his parents had some great forbidden romance or anything and Caleb doesn't strike me as a complete moron so I don't think he made that comment in order to get sympathy from Dylan although I guess it could be interpreted that way.

 

I love this show, I think it's surprisingly complex.

I think how it benefits the story is it fleshes out part of why Norma is inappropriate with Norman... Because she grew up finding some comfort or shelter or acceptance from an inappropriate physical/emotional relationship with Caleb, in an abusive household.    

[natyxg]

I think either Caleb just doesn't want to see himself as the bad guy and though he was older he was a teen then too, or he totally knows it was rape, but wants to win Dylan over and placing some responsibility on Norma and the situation helps.

[Avaleigh]

Thing is, usually when someone tells you something you don't want to hear, that is the truth. Beware of things that sound pleasing!

I don't think either version sounds pleasing but point taken. Thanks too for the correction about Norma's age. Am I correct in thinking that she had Dylan when she was sixteen? 

 

Thinking about it too I guess the way Norma physically attacked Caleb falls in line with her version of events.

 

What did you guys think of Emma's decision to be home schooled with Norman? I wonder what her father will have to say? Last season she was making new friends and now it's like she's back to thinking that Norman is the only friend she has. Too bad.

 

I'm curious as to how the Norman/Emma relationship will end. Will it just be due to her death? Will she find out about him before she dies? Will the Norma/Norman closeness finally freak her out for good? Will Dylan notice how awesome she is and the two of them can just run away together sending Norman into an emotional tailspin from which he doesn't recover? (Okay I know the last one won't happen but I love the idea of Emma and Dylan running off together and ditching the crazy.) 

[Fable]

I think this season is going to turn very dark, and I really hope it does.  I've enjoyed the prequel of the Bates in their "innocence" but I tuned in to see how Norman got from point A to point B and I'm ready for it.   I love all these twisted characters, and I want everyone to be okay, but since it is obvious they won't, I'm ready to learn what happened.

[Bec]

Haha, that's true that it doesn't exactly sound "pleasing" either way. I guess Caleb's version would just sound "better" to Dylan, relatively speaking. If I were Dylan, it's messed up enough to be the product of incest, but to be the product of incest-rape? Doubly messed up, not to mention horribly painful revelation. I would probably rather believe I was at least the product of a loving relationship. That would make me feel a lot better about my entire existence.

 

Somebody needs to give Dylan a hug. And somebody needs to give Emma a hug. Yes, I love the idea of the two of them running away together! Too bad it will never happen. I hope we at least get some scenes of them interacting. They haven't really had a chance to talk after she yelled at him about being a bad brother and bad son (and then later ate crow when Norman told her what's going on with Dylan).

[ganesh]

Somebody needs to give Dylan a hug.

 

Somebody needs to give him a *map*. To the fuck out of there. 

[tennisgurl]

 

I think Emma is Norman's rebound from getting rejected by Norma.

Creepy...but very true. I think he really likes Emma, but he only wants to date her before Norma was starting to pull away from their creepy mother/lover relationship. Then of course she pulls him back into bed. Be interesting to see where his relationship with Emma goes from here. Or Emma's relationship with Norma.

 

I don't think he killed the hooker. I think he just dropped her off somewhere. But then, the creepy music was playing, so I cant be sure. It just seems a bit early for Norman to start a random killing spree. At least give us until season four! 

[methodwriter85]

"Please. You're my son." And his nephew! Son! Nephew! Son AND nephew!

 

I can't tell if I think there's some shady reason Caleb is there, or he really does think he can forge a relationship with Dylan.

[Racj82]

I agree with this sentiment in general, but I also think it stems from mommy issues.  If he is attracted to someone that Norma wouldn't approve of, well then.....

 

Emma, on the other hand, Norma loves, so I think (hope) she is perfectly safe. 

Yeah, it does come from mommy issues as well. I don't if it's the show making me think beyond that but who does Mommy like has always been there. What about his urges makes him do what he does is a important component to the story as well.

 

**spoiler if you never saw Psycho IV**

 

 

 

 

I remember when I saw that movie I felt that at least part of the reason why Norman killed Norma was because he was jealous towards the men Norma had in her life. Whether it's just because he wants his mom to himself because he loves his mom or because he LOVES his mom is the question. I guess it is a little both.

 

A very complex character that Norman is.

[Racj82]

Norma was thirteen and the abuse went on for years (I just checked that scene where she tells Norman that in season one). I know some teens start being sexually active very young, but come on. Caleb described her as a "trusting girl" to Dylan in season two. If anyone is in denial about the truth here, I think it is Caleb. And he is in deep, deep denial. Norma is a mess, and this guy is a mega-mess.

 

I trust Caleb even less than I trust Norma. He is clearly trying to worm his way back into Dylan's life, have some kind of uncle-nephew/father-son relationship, and he had lots of time to think about exactly what to say to Dylan. Even after Dylan told him to go, he showed up uninvited at Dylan's cabin like some kind of stalker. Dylan even called bullshit on his excuse about his car breaking down again "Oh, so you drove all the way out here to my cabin when your car broke down."

 

When Norma spilled about her brother raping her in season one, why couldn't she have made up some other story to make Norman feel sorry for her if that was just a fake story for that purpose? Why would that be the story she wants Norman to remember her by when she thought Abernathy would kill her later that night? She had no idea she will live and Caleb will find her in season two. The only explanation that makes sense is she was just satisfying her own need to spill her guts and intensify the bond between Norman and her some more by letting him in on the most hidden part of herself. That required the unvarnished truth. No rewritten history, no lies.

 

She didn't even want to let Dylan in on all this in the first place. That's how Caleb got a chance to bond with Dylan in season two. If Norma was a master manipulator she would have nipped this in the bud and told Dylan that Caleb is a rapist (without telling him Caleb raped her) as soon as she kicked Caleb out of her house and Dylan was asking her why she did that. That way Dylan would have been more cautious of Caleb to begin with.

 

I don't think Norma is a great manipulator at all. Remember that time she tried to manipulate the sheriff? Oh boy, that was embarrassing. Dylan can see right through her a lot of the time, but that time he called her a liar for saying Caleb raped her, he was letting his own bias cloud his judgement. He wanted a nice uncle so badly, Norma was telling him something he didn't want to hear.

 

Uncle-dad is still trying to push those buttons of his. Trying to convince him what Norma told him doesn't feel good, so ignore that and believe my version of events which is much more pleasing to the ear. We're two lonely souls and I need someone to cling to, so let's bond, nephew-son.

 

Thing is, usually when someone tells you something you don't want to hear, that is the truth. Beware of things that sound pleasing!

 

Oh, I think the show brought Caleb back to give us more Bates family drama. I'm looking forward to that. He doesn't have to be a majorly obvious mustache-twirling villain. It's messed up enough that he wants to bond with the nephew-son who wants nothing to do with him. He is wearing Dylan down and he'll be in town for a while, inevitably he'll run into Norman and/or Norma. Can't wait to see what happens then.

I just don't think there is anything clear about it. It's purposely not clear. Caleb could very well be full of shit. But, we have seen Norma be a manipulative/lying woman time and time again. As much as I would love to believe Norma (her telling of the events felt so raw), I'm not just going to take her word over his just because of some key words Caleb said or because of how good Vera's acting was in that scene. I just don't know. This whole family is FUCKED UP.

[Guest]

I think Emma is Norman's rebound from getting rejected by Norma.

I wonder too if the hot hooker had something to do with it.  Like Norman recognizes he has inappropriate feelings for some women and thinks maybe having an appropriate relationship with Emma might help him not act on them?  

 

Creepy...but very true. I think he really likes Emma, but he only wants to date her before Norma was starting to pull away from their creepy mother/lover relationship. Then of course she pulls him back into bed. Be interesting to see where his relationship with Emma goes from here. Or Emma's relationship with Norma.

 

I don't think he killed the hooker. I think he just dropped her off somewhere. But then, the creepy music was playing, so I cant be sure. It just seems a bit early for Norman to start a random killing spree. At least give us until season four! 

Well, he's killed three others already, though I guess only Ms. Watson was 'killing spree' type murder.  

[maczero]

I like that Norman's basic defense was: "The racoon made me do it." 

I have to give Norman props for running it off.  Whenever I see one at my trash, I usually drop the bag and run in the opposite direction.

 

Does Gunner have a purpose since he and Emma are no longer an item?

Future victim?

 

Slightly boring ep but I'm glad the show is back.  Count me in the group that doesn't believe Norman killed that girl (if she's even dead).  I'm surprised that this thread isn't filled with hate for the actress who played the hooker.  She sure seemed to get a lot of hate when she was on Revolution.

 

Not really thrilled to see Caleb back in the picture.  I don't care if he did or didn't initiate a sexual relationship with his sister.  He's older and was presumably bigger than Norma so he should've been able to stop her advances.

 

Am I the only one that finds Norman to be the least interesting member of the cast?  I just don't find the character likable.  And I still don't understand why so many women are drawn to him.  I was a socially awkward teenager and I wasn't having nearly as much sex as he's had.  Maybe it's just jealousy on my part. lol.

 

That said I do really enjoy the rest of the cast.  Dylan as the good guy trapped in a bad situation.  Emma's incredibly sweet yet plucky.  I love Norma going back and forth between vulnerable child and nagging shrew.  And finally, grumpy ass Romero.  Loved how he introduced that guy's face to the bar.  BTW have we seen Romero laugh?