camussie March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) I just..don't think Rachel has learned anything. And I wish the show would stop acting as if this whole thing was taken from her. Yep which is why if I had my druthers NYADA nor a role on Broadway would be a choice at this time. I would prefer if, after she rediscovered her joy of performing versus simply being a star, she was going to go back to NYC to hit the pavement and/or take classes at a community college part time while auditioning. Then in 5 years we found out that hard work paid off and she is back on Broadway (versus winning a Tony). That said these are the two choices we are left with is NYADA or this role. Given those 2 choices I want her to choose NYADA because I think it is the more logical conclusion based on the story we have seen so far. That Rachel needs additional training before she can truly make a career out of Broadway. At least according to Carmen, the one expert in the Glee universe on Broadway. Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie Link to comment
grandemocha March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 like Kurt not getting admitted to NYADA the first time around after nailing his audition Because Kurt got his super!special! VOGUE internship with ZERO struggle. And ended up in NYADA anyway. They threw in some threadbare plot line about how he had some fashion blog if I recall and that was enough to score him his internship. As if. A coveted internship at a place like VOGUE would have had hundreds if not thousands of applicants far more qualified than Kurt in that office and scoring that position. He didn't deserve that either, yet he got it because Ryan Murphy wanted SJP in the show and needed a core character there with her. It's contrived bullshit because RIB wanted Rachel back in Ohio for the last season no matter what, so they had the character make shitty decisions repeatedly to get her there. They used Glee logic to ignore the fact that she had a contract that would have been ironclad legally and wouldn't have allowed her to leave Funny Girl, that a school like NYADA would have very possibly understood and made concessions for the LEAD of a major Broadway production to take her final/midterm at a later time. The point of NYADA is to prepare students for real world performing. It helps the school's reputation if a student like Rachel succeeds at her Broadway show. She would have been a succesful alumnus who would draw more students there. But nope, Tibideaux refused to budge because Rachel needed to drop out which lead to no Funny Girl. Then no TV show ---> then straight to Ohio. 1 Link to comment
fakeempress March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) I just..don't think Rachel has learned anything. And I wish the show would stop acting as if this whole thing was taken from her. That's the gist for me. At the start of the season I was among those thinking the SL for Rachel will be her learning that the worthwhile drive isn't stardom per se (which led to her failure) but the need to perform as a creative outlet for her talent; and that coaching the new glee club will be the learning experience that will provide this kind of growth. But they went the other way, with the justification of "it just happened", people propping her again, and gifting her magic auditions and second chances at NYADA. Again the fail is in the writers going against their own setup. Because Kurt got his super!special! VOGUE internship with ZERO struggle. And ended up in NYADA anyway. These are two different things. The Vogue internship was magic, but it was a means to get him to NYC and provide some ground for the breakup with Blaine (Kurt being distracted by the new life and not paying enough attention). It was never a career SL for him, and had nothing to do with him getting into NYADA. NYADA was, on the other hand, always the telegraphed career SL for him, and it was done believably in Glee terms. Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress Link to comment
grandemocha March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 The Vogue internship was magic, but it was a means to get him to NYC and provide some groundwork for the breakup with Blaine (him being neglectful). Just like Rachel making colossally stupid decision after stupid decision was a means to get her to Ohio and McKinley for Season 6. It was always going to happen because Ryan Murphy wanted it to happen. She had to fail at NYADA, give up Broadway, and fail on TV to be back in Glee club. Link to comment
camussie March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) That's the gist for me. At the start of the season I was among those thinking the SL for Rachel will be her learning that the worthwhile drive isn't stardom per se (which led to her failure) but the need to perform as a creative outlet for her talent; and that coaching the new glee club will be the learning experience that will provide this kind of growth. But they went the other way, with the justification of "it just happened", people propping her again, and gifting her magic auditions and second chances at NYADA. Again the fail is in the writers going against their own setup They seemed to be going that direction in the first 2-3 episodes but it got sidelined with the focus on moving her forward with Sam. Then to kill two birds with one stone they had Mercedes "Magical Negro" her way all over both the Sam/rachel story and Rachel getting another shot at Broadway story. Unfortunately with that development Rachel has turned herself into the victim of circumstances instead of owning her bad mistakes. Her saying she wanted to go back to NY a winner just cemented that to me. Believe me I wanted her to show growth this season but she hasn't. In the least. I no more believe this wet noodle of a character could go back to Broadway immediately and make a lasting career of it than I believe Kurt/Blaine will be happily married in a year. The show may tell me that but that isn't the same as showing that. Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie 1 Link to comment
KatWay March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) Blaine doesn't count to me as much, because I honestly haven't seen much interest in his journey from the writers either. Or at all. Yes, he gets all these opportunities handed to him, but it's never really presented as a triumph for him, or even as something special. Blaine just happens to get all the solos so he can be the magic juke box that RIB for some reason want him to be (except this season). We didn't even know he wanted to go to NYADA until he raised the issue in S4. Before then we didn't even know he wanted to do musical theater. Hell, he could have said he wanted to be a dentist and I would have bought it just as much. He auditioned, we never even saw that, apparently it was good and he was in. Pretty much a side note, compared to the triumphant entries that Rachel and Kurt (who probably had the most organic journey of the three, magic Vogue internship notwithstanding) made. And then again his only issues at NYADA were related to Kurt. Contrast that with Rachel who had an entire season building up her desire to go to NYADA and has been proclaimed the specialest of snowflakes multiple times, every other character falls over their feet to help her on her journey, to get her where she "belongs", because she's just destined to be a big star. Who gets to pick between two options now, either of which will likely result in her being super successful. Blaine flunked out of NYADA and he'll probably end up magically successful in the last episode, but we won't see how or why or his journey there. Now, I don't care enough about Blaine to want to see that, but he's nowhere near the special snowflake status that Rachel has. Edited March 9, 2015 by KatWay Link to comment
fakeempress March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) Just like Rachel making colossally stupid decision after stupid decision was a means to get her to Ohio and McKinley for Season 6. It was always going to happen because Ryan Murphy wanted it to happen. She had to fail at NYADA, give up Broadway, and fail on TV to be back in Glee club. Rachel's stupid decisions were telegraphed with her quest for stardom, and a point already in Season 4 re her NYADA attitude and performance. It's not the same as a tangenial plot point for Kurt; this has been her primary SL. Contrast that with Rachel who had an entire season building up her desire to go to NYADA and has been proclaimed the specialest of snowflakes multiple times, every other character falls over their feet to help her on her journey, to get her where she "belongs", because she's just destined to be a big star. Who gets to pick between two options now, either of which will likely result in her being super successful. This is so true, the embarrassment of riches dilemma she's facing. Succeed, or succeed? Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress Link to comment
Hana Chan March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 The point of NYADA is to prepare students for real world performing. It helps the school's reputation if a student like Rachel succeeds at her Broadway show. She would have been a succesful alumnus who would draw more students there. But nope, Tibideaux refused to budge because Rachel needed to drop out which lead to no Funny Girl. Then no TV show ---> then straight to Ohio. Yes, I'm sure that NYADA is exceedingly proud that one of their students quit a successful lead role barely a month into its run to dash off to LA to do a shit TV show that got canceled after a single episode and cost a network head his job. That's just the kind of thing they like to brag about in regards to their alumni. Rachel's downfall had been building for most of season four and five. She kept double downing on everything working out for her and finally... something didn't. Returning to Lima a total failure after blowing all of her opportunities... that was probably the most real world thing they've done with Rachel in years. The only downside was that the Funny Girl producer apparently didn't follow through on his promise to sue her because she wouldn't have had three nickels in her pocket to finance ND with. Link to comment
grandemocha March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 Rachel's stupid decisions were telegraphed with her quest for stardom, and a point already in Season 4 re her NYADA attitude and performance. It's not the same as a tangenial plot point for Kurt; this has been her primary SL. What attitude exactly? Toward her alcoholic dance teacher who was verbally abusive toward her and made hateful comments about her ethnic features if I recall? The teacher who should have been fired for a multitude of reasons? If the show wanted me to see Rachel needing to learn a lesson in NYADA, they should have picked a character who #1 wasn't a guest star #2 wasn't a terrible person who loved to humiliate her student and #3 actually seemed competent/sober/ respectful. Not Kate Hudson who needed an obvious dance double criticizing Rachel on her poor dancing skills. It was laughable. Things changed for Rachel between Season 4 or 5. I stand by what I say. The writers had her screw up repeatedly because they wanted Rachel/Lea back in Ohio for Season 6. Everything was aiming towards that. 1 Link to comment
Hana Chan March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 What attitude exactly? Toward her alcoholic dance teacher who was verbally abusive toward her and made hateful comments about her ethnic features if I recall? The teacher who should have been fired for a multitude of reasons? If the show wanted me to see Rachel needing to learn a lesson in NYADA, they should have picked a character who #1 wasn't a guest star #2 wasn't a terrible person who loved to humiliate her student and #3 actually seemed competent/sober/ respectful. Not Kate Hudson who needed an obvious dance double criticizing Rachel on her poor dancing skills. It was laughable. Things changed for Rachel between Season 4 or 5. I stand by what I say. The writers had her screw up repeatedly because they wanted Rachel/Lea back in Ohio for Season 6. Everything was aiming towards that. Answering in the episode thread. Link to comment
grandemocha March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) The only downside was that the Funny Girl producer apparently didn't follow through on his promise to sue her because she wouldn't have had three nickels in her pocket to finance ND with. Yet he didn't. And she'll apparently win a Tony within a few years. So Rachel wins again. Yes, I'm sure that NYADA is exceedingly proud that one of their students quit a successful lead role barely a month into its run to dash off to LA to do a shit TV show that got canceled after a single episode and cost a network head his job. As I clearly said before, NYADA could have easily given her a leave of absence while she worked on Funny Girl. Hell, Carmen or the school board very possibly could have worked with her schedule (ya know, seeing as how she'd the lead in a major Broadway musical) to allow her to take her midterm when it didn't interfere with her work commitments. Schools are supposed to help their students succeed. Rachel succeeding with people knowing where she went to school would have made NYADA looks good too. Edited March 9, 2015 by grandemocha Link to comment
caracas1914 March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 For fuck sake, Kurt' path to NYADA was hardly easy or unearned. In fact it took him a year and a half of episodes to finally get in. Link to comment
Hana Chan March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 As I clearly said before, NYADA could have easily given her a leave of absence while she worked on Funny Girl. Hell, Carmen or the school board very possibly could have worked with her schedule (ya know, seeing as how she'd the lead in a major Broadway musical) to allow her to take her midterm when it didn't interfere with her work commitments. Schools are supposed to help their students succeed. Rachel succeeding with people knowing where she went to school would have made NYADA looks good too. You don't just get a leave of absence because someone thinks that you're overextending yourself. You have to ask for it. Rachel didn't. Rachel insisted that she could do it all, and also work at the diner and only decided that NYADA wasn't worth pursuing any longer when she was called out that she had totally neglected her classwork. Once she made the choice to take the role in Funny Girl, it was her responsibility to go to Ms. Tibideaux and discuss her options. Decrease her class load, or take a year off because professional theater is a full time job in and of itself. It was not NYADAs responsibility to bend over backwards to accommodate her. Yes, Rachel succeeding on Broadway would be another credit to NYADA, but Rachel totally flaking out and acting unprofessionally doesn't. This is one circle that just can't be squared. Rachel has to take ownership of her actions. It wasn't NYADA's fault that she couldn't manage the overload of responsibilities that she willingly shouldered. It wasn't Funny Girl's fault that she didn't have the knowledge base how to handle doing a show over the long run without getting bored. It wasn't anyone else's fault but Rachel's. Link to comment
dizzyizzy01 March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 Like I said to start this whole discussion. Virtually every character on this show has bullshit contrived storylines that don't make sense. Rachel's for whatever reason bothers people more. I think it's because she gets a whole lot more focus than the other characters. And people keep trying to apply both real world rules and so called fake glee rules at the same time. You can't do both. Kurt got a magical Vogue internship. His band magically books NY hotspots for gigs. His dad is a congressman? Mike got into one of the best ballets without any ballet training? Quinn is in a drama program at Yale that doesn't actually exist for undergraduates? Britney was at MIT despite having what a 0.0 grade point average? Sam stumbles into a lucrative modeling contract? Santana walks onto a understudy role in a Broadway show? Three kids from the same high school get into a prestigious program within 2 years of each other that only accepts 20 students a year? Those are some great odds. People should be clamoring to go the McKinley. Come on...it's all contrived bullshit. I can't emphasize it more. 1 Link to comment
fakeempress March 9, 2015 Share March 9, 2015 (edited) Replying in the All Episodes. Let's move the conversation there, seems more appropriate thread and this is already duplicating it. Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress 1 Link to comment
Kromm March 10, 2015 Share March 10, 2015 The problem is that some character do have to play by real world standards. Kurt constantly gets told that he's going to be passed over in favor on more conventional performers and hasn't gotten the rocketship ride to success just because he made it into a good school. Blaine got some good opportunities, but let them slip through his fingers and is drifting now as a result. Mercedes wouldn't compromise her values and lost out on her first album deal and had to claw her way back to a new one. Rachel, though, doesn't have to play by anything even close to real world or even Glee world rules. Rules get twisted and bent in any way necessary to justify Rachel succeeding in the end. I wouldn't care about Rachel's constant successes if Glee at least followed their own rules when it came to how they treated her, but she's apparently immune from any kind of boundaries. You can't have most characters hemmed in by one set of rules and others (primarily Rachel and to a slightly lesser degree Blaine) given carte blanche immunity. That's just poor and lazy storytelling, where the end will justify whatever means they take to get there. But this is why and how this show is a constant utter failure. I've said previously I'm okay with Sue, for example, having magical-level superpowers and going over the top to wacky unrealistic places. The more I've thought about it the more I've realized on some level I'm okay with any or all of the Glee characters at times being cartoonish. Where it fails is when they don't properly segregate things. There should be cartoonish episodes, and serious episodes, and never the two should meet. This means by default any "arc" storyline (like Rachel's career) needs to be serious. The showrunners never seem to have gotten this--they even mix cartoonish stuff and serious stuff in the SAME episodes, often for the same character. It's total bullshit. They also seem seriously stuck on the notion that Rachel is her own worst enemy. Which works a few times, but eventually gets us to a point of wanting the idiot to suffer for a continuous stream of bad choices and never learning her lesson. I suppose it was a reaction to them realizing they couldn't have an endless succession of Sue Sylvester plots causing trouble for Rachel, or come up with an assortment of Sue replacements to put obstacles in Rachel's path, but its made Rachel into a character a lot of people just WANT to see fail now, and the show trying to be reflexive and have her fail at the beginning of this season in a way that was making fun of fan reactions like that just made it worse (just like the endless "Klaine" jokes only made that situation worse as well). 1 Link to comment
Ikki March 11, 2015 Share March 11, 2015 That was one of the longest hours of my life. At one point I thought, "God, is this a two hour episode?" So I checked and saw that I was only 43 minutes in. 1 Link to comment
LisaM March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 I had to FF through all of the Sue scenes (except the one with Becky finally blowing her off) because they were horrible. Enough already. I like Jane Lynch but this whole arc is making me dislike her as an actress. No way in hell I'm spending a second on Geraldo Rivera. As a huge Carol Burnett fan, have to admit that I liked the duet she did with Sue -- even though I only focused on Carol. I did like how they resolved the blazer issue. The show moves really quickly when you FF through most of it. Link to comment
Omnihelix March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 (edited) a school like NYADA would have very possibly understood and made concessions for the LEAD of a major Broadway production to take her final/midterm at a later time. The point of NYADA is to prepare students for real world performing. It helps the school's reputation if a student like Rachel succeeds at her Broadway show. She would have been a succesful alumnus who would draw more students there. But nope, Tibideaux refused to budge because Rachel needed to drop out which lead to no Funny Girl. Then no TV show ---> then straight to Ohio. Yes. I never understood how rigid NYADA was. Other than to advance a lame plot point, that is. Edited March 12, 2015 by Omnihelix Link to comment
darkestboy March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 Not bad, not too brilliant either.It was nice to see Sue finally get fired from McKinley but it wasn't much of a deterrent when she landed a job with Vocal Adrenaline just as quickly though.Interesting that Becky was the one who somewhat led Sue's downfall though I guess.Sue and Will's version of The Final Countdown was hilarious. Rather Be was also good at the start.The New Directions/Warblers joining up was done okay enough as well.Rachel either going back to NYADA or Broadway, not bad, I think Sam made a good point as well 7/10 Link to comment
Lovecat March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 I don't think it's been mentioned, so I'll go there: Matt Morrison, leather pants, and eyeliner = rrrrowr! Lose the bad wig, and I'd climb that like a tree. I also loved the flashes back and forth between the 80's hairband fantasy and the reality of two Ohio school teachers flailing about on an empty stage. Hilarious! I also lol'ed at the line about the Dalton blazers instantly turning the wearer into...a sex symbol ::poses struck:: A meta reference to Darren's runaway popularity upon his S2 introduction, perhaps, but funny nonetheless. I'm just riding along to the finish at this point. I'm not terribly invested, but I've got to see it through to the end. I enjoy what scraps I can, and toss the rest aside. Sad for a show that used to be appointment teevee. 1 Link to comment
caracas1914 March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 Yes. I never understood how rigid NYADA was. Actually it was established early on that NYADA allowed and even encouraged BW and other professional gigs. The difference was that Rachel was letting her NYADA curriculum slide and wasn't giving it any priorities. It's still stupid, since Glee had her studying at NYADA, working at a diner AND prepping a BW show..LOL. Link to comment
jay741982 March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 WAY too many guys In the glee club with them merging with Dalton seriously only 3 women in New Directions compared to like 11 guys Link to comment
caracas1914 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 (edited) It's finally the Glee choir of Ryan's wet fantasies. Surprised he didn't dump the remaining girls for 3 more white football jocks. Edited March 13, 2015 by caracas1914 2 Link to comment
jaytee1812 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 Surprised he didn't dump the girls for 3 more white football jocks. Then who would they have sex with? Link to comment
Camera One March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 I finally watched this one, and what a mess it was. There's not even the slightest effort of plot planning now. Need Blaine here full-time? Burn Dalton down. Need Sue to continue to compete with Will? Fire her and put her as coach of VA. Rachel gets a Broadway gig AND gets accepted back to Nyada and the episode wasn't even about her and she didn't even get a song. Another waste of an episode. Seriously, who can tell this is supposed to be the final season. Link to comment
shang yiet March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 (edited) Rachel is right back to her former so-called sweet dilemma - Nyada or Broadway? So hard to decide! I wish her choice was between waitressing in Lima or waitressing in New York. Did I see Joe shorn of his dreadlocks? Edited March 13, 2015 by shang yiet 2 Link to comment
Lovecat March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 Did I see Joe shorn of his dreadlocks? You did! What a difference for him. With dreads = ew, get away from me. Without dreads = come to mama. Link to comment
caracas1914 March 13, 2015 Share March 13, 2015 Rachel's BW saga is the equivalent of Quinn reappearing and nonchalantly texting/driving again. 1 Link to comment
natyxg March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 Fucking hell, stop with all the Sue!!!!! And the season actually started a bit decent, they had to ruin it. 1 Link to comment
tom87 March 16, 2015 Share March 16, 2015 (edited) Well heard that the Myron kid was on a show that reviews glee episodes and he said any scenes with Whoopie were cut becasue she was snowbound and couldn't get to LA. Edited March 16, 2015 by tom87 Link to comment
AndySmith March 31, 2015 Share March 31, 2015 Well, at least the opening number of "Rather Be" was good. Out of all the New New New Directions performances, I think I enjoyed it the most. Sadly, it all goes downhill after that... Link to comment
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