S06.E10: The Rise And Fall Of Sue Sylvester

[KaveDweller]

In the mean time Rachel is still the specialest snowflake that ever existed. As others have pointed out this is the 4th time Carmen gave her another chance, but Rachel was immediately dismissing NYADA again the moment she got cast in that musical.

 

Maybe Carmen heard that Rachel was offered that other musical and told her she could come back to NYADA as a test? I mean, that's still unrealistic but at least it is slightly logical.

 

Weren't there a lot more Warblers than we saw in this episode? They must have had more than 12, since in the invitational it was only mentioned that New Directions was under the minimum.  But there weren't 12 of them singing with the New Directions. Maybe some of them died in the fire and they thought that was less important to mention that when we could have Becky screaming at Sue.

[wayne67]

Maybe Carmen heard that Rachel was offered that other musical and told her she could come back to NYADA as a test? I mean, that's still unrealistic but at least it is slightly logical.

 

Weren't there a lot more Warblers than we saw in this episode? They must have had more than 12, since in the invitational it was only mentioned that New Directions was under the minimum.  But there weren't 12 of them singing with the New Directions. Maybe some of them died in the fire and they thought that was less important to mention that when we could have Becky screaming at Sue.

 

Perhaps other Warblers merely went to other schools unconcerned about competing for a meaningless trophy. Who knows with this show. I don't think logic is a primary factor in why things happen here.

[caracas1914]

I think the charred bodies of Warblers would have made a nice PSA about playing with matches.

[wayne67]

I think the charred bodies of Warblers would have made a nice PSA about playing with matches.

 

Or the dangers of smoking in an effort to be 'cool' and not knowing how to use a lighter...

[caracas1914]

It would have been  a nice bookend episode to the PSA of Quinn texting and driving.

[tom87]

I just  remember something Whoopi was absent from the View for a few weeks in January because she hurt her back.   Maybe it was planned to have her there but she couldn't due to her back. 

[Miles]

Sue being the coach of Vocal Adrenalin is surprisingly fitting. Good choice there.

Also Jane Lynch really became a good singer (with the help of autotune) over these past few years. Others didn't get better to the same extend she did.

[EAG46]

Why on EARTH did Will defend Sue? I don't buy the whole "having a nemesis is useful" bullshit. He's still afraid of her on some deep level. Good Bits: Geraldo's nose getting broken again, all the celebrity cameos refuting Sue's delusions, and of course Carol Burnett coming on to sing.

[shoregirl]

Not only did he defend her but when Sue said Will betrayed her he said everyone else betrayed her only he and Beiste didnt. Saying they betrayed her her implies he thinks the kids were wrong. None of the kids lied, they are entitled to say what Sue did to them. He has a right to defend her if he desires (I'm not sure why he would but whatever) but I think it's kind of jerky of him to say the kids betrayed her like they owe her anything.

Edited March 8, 2015 by shoregirl

[Sara2009]

The writing for the dialogue in this episode was worse than usual.

[dmmetler]

Um,,,,(hides head)...I kind of liked it??

 

The plot was thin and pretty silly, but seeing Sue finally get called on the carpet was good (although I wish Will hadn't spoken up for her, I can understand Bieste doing so). I'm glad it was Becky who finally said "too much" (although I don't know why she'd care who is in Glee club). And Jane finally got a chance to sing and take the lead.  Sue and Vocal Adrenaline makes sense in as much as anything on this show does.

 

Rachel getting a musical job AND back into NYADA was too much, and I'm going to pretend it didn't happen.

 

 

I also admit, the musician in me was trying to figure out how best to orchestrate for a group containing a large number of male singers, three female singers, and one unchanged treble. I'd kind of like to see them do Pie Jesu from Andrew Lloyd Webber's Requiem.

[caracas1914]

I still can't get over that New Directions is now at the end pretty much just a sausage fest.  Something like 12  guys and 3 girls .  Ryan Murphy has the Glee club of his fantasies.

[shantown]

I still can't get over that New Directions is now at the end pretty much just a sausage fest.  Something like 12  guys and 3 girls .  Ryan Murphy has the Glee club of his fantasies.

The New Directions is now the Warblers. It's his gross dream come true.

[jaytee1812]

I still can't get over that New Directions is now at the end pretty much just a sausage fest.  Something like 12  guys and 3 girls .  Ryan Murphy has the Glee club of his fantasies.

It's also been fairly whitewashed with only 2 people of colour that I saw. So the same as the original 5 and less than half the original ND. Also as far as I could see they're all able bodied, and even the gay men are fairly straight looking.

[Kromm]

I've been a moderate defender of CERTAIN tiny aspects of this season, like the even more broadly farcicial and over-the-top reflexive nature of Sue and allowing her equally over-the-top superpowers.
 

But this?  This episode was the shittiest shit that ever shitted.  This was the lowest decent into the depths.  This was the biggest "fuck you" the show could have done.
 

Sue being a live action cartoon character straight out of Warner Brothers is fine.  But when you try and mix it with earnestness rather than just crazy, it's disgusting bad and insulting. You have to pick and choose. Either a partiuclar Glee episode is cartoonish, or it's earnest, and NEVER THE TWO SHOULD MEET.  You don't try and put both in the same episode.  And if you do?  FUCK YOU, DIE, GLEE. It's just insulting, annoying, stupid, smarmy, and fetid.
 

Not to mention that even just the earnest parts (attempted earnest parts?) of the episode all on their own were shit this time around. A LITTLE contrivance on Glee is no big deal. But doing total shit, like burning down their rival school to solve their bad writing problem?  Or other shit like Rachel magically getting two primo paths in life to solve her crisis (and give her an idiotic "parting lesson" for the show)?  Or having trouble remembering if Sam is supposed to be stupid or smart in an episode?  Or whatever that shit was with Carol Burnett that was supposed to explain why Sue is a nutter, but just tracked as stupid?  Or a wink-wink joke with Jerry Rivers about Faux News' "fair and balanced" tag?  Or taking the inability of that little shit from the last episode to dance even basic steps and trying to work it into the plot?  Or the third Rachel emotional crisis in as many weeks?  Or the very laughable dodge at not being able to show Quinn Fabray even on a fake Geraldo interview?  Or a hundred other pieces of Glee rubble strewn across the landscape?
 

Ugh. If they'd simply stuck with Sue having incredible over the top evil superpowers it frankly would have been better.  Instead we just got shit.

 

I'll say it again.  Fuck you, Glee.

[Kromm]

Whoopi doesn't fly.  She has a rock star touring bus that takes her from one coast to the other.  If she didn't have any other reason to be in LA, it wouldn't have been worth it for them to arrange for her to be there to shoot at most two scenes.

I don't blame her for not particularly giving a shit about Glee, because it's probably devolved into a really embarrassing connection to her, you know... like Bill Cosby.

 

Hah.

 

That said, they totally could have dodged her in the first scene with Rachel walking in the door, but then shot Whoopi alone on the other end of a phone in New York for the second scene.  If it really mattered.  Which it doesn't, because that episode didn't even TRY to have any consistency, logic, or sense, so why bother even getting Whoopie even for a remote shot?

[dizzyizzy01]

The only fun thing left on the show for a while had been the musical numbers, but we don't even have that anymore.  Nobody cares about VA or the Warblers.  And at this point, nobody really cares about the New New Directions either.

 

Every single achievement/milestone on this show feels so unearned.  Rachel getting another Broadway role after 1 audition, Santana/Britney getting married, Blaine/Kurt breaking up and getting married, Mercedes somehow being some recording star, Kurt with his Vogue internship and NYADA, Sam miraculously getting a modeling contract and now back in Lima teaching without a degree.  I guess the only ones that seem to sort of make sense are the kids that are pretty much entirely off screen like Mike and Quinn.

 

The choice between another Broadway role and going back to NYADA is just such a dumb one.  Why are the writers even setting this up?  It's just an unrealistically stupid set-up and it feels like cheap storytelling.  Rational people don't spend $50k in tuition a year to go to performing arts school if they're already getting strong opportunities at real professional jobs.  It's not like Rachel is some legacy kid with tons of connections or money.  If it's the right opportunity, you take the job and leave school to return at a later time if you really want to.  Performing arts school don't really teach you the business side of things anyway.  Not enough where you don't need an effective team around you anyways.  That's why people have managers, agents, lawyers on staff.

 

The worst part of this story is also having Sam "try to be the voice of reason".  The guy that couldn't get into a school and sniffs jock straps.  He's the last person anyone should be getting advice from.

[camussie]

Not a dumb choice at all for someone who already chose a role over school and blew that chance in such spectacular fashion she ended slinking back to her home town. It isn't so much that school can teach rachel the business side of things (although that is part of it), it is that it can teach her how to turn a good audition into a lasting career through honing skills such as keeping the material fresh and approaching a show as a team effort. Many performers can learn those on the job. Rachel has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt she can't.

If Rachel takes this role and flames out again (and every indication is that she would as she hasn't seem have learned a thing) how long would her career last? For that matter could Mercedes get her another audition after Rachel blew it a second time?

Sure there is a chance she won't ever get another shot at Broadway of she turns down this role for NYADA but every indication is there is a much bigger chance if she takes this role she will once again crash and burn which would effectively end any chance she has for a career.

If someone can tell how Rachel is anymore prepared to be on Broadway than she was last time I am open to changing my mind but from where I sit she is the exact same woman, if even less self aware, as the woman Carmen accurately predicted would soon flame out because of her lack of training combined with her delusional self importance.

I agree Sam isn't the right person to deliver that message but some one needs to deliver it. April Rhodes would be a good candidate. She flamed out on Broadway a couple of times because she didn't have the training and discipline to make a career out of a some good auditions and is now spending her days in branson. That could easily be Rachel if she takes this role and blows it as is very likely at the moment.

Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie

[wayne67]

The choice between another Broadway role and going back to NYADA is just such a dumb one.  Why are the writers even setting this up?  It's just an unrealistically stupid set-up and it feels like cheap storytelling.  Rational people don't spend $50k in tuition a year to go to performing arts school if they're already getting strong opportunities at real professional jobs.  It's not like Rachel is some legacy kid with tons of connections or money.  If it's the right opportunity, you take the job and leave school to return at a later time if you really want to.  Performing arts school don't really teach you the business side of things anyway.  Not enough where you don't need an effective team around you anyways.  That's why people have managers, agents, lawyers on staff.

 

The worst part of this story is also having Sam "try to be the voice of reason".  The guy that couldn't get into a school and sniffs jock straps.  He's the last person anyone should be getting advice from.

 

 

The curriculum isn't the only thing that is important about a performing arts school. When Rachel was part of the Winter Showcase that was supposedly a big deal and a way to get noticed by people who invest in those Broadway plays and in performing arts.

 

There are also valuable connections to be made from a performing arts school such as a nod from Whoopi could get her into various audition rooms. Similar to Mercedes having the inside scoop on an audition for Rachel but on a larger scale.

 

As for the job we don't really know what it entails or how well it's run, the other members of the cast or how well it's done. NYADA on the other hand is supposedly a great institution to hone your craft.

 

At this point Rachel is more of a one trick pony, she can stand and sing but she doesn't have the commitment to improving her dance skills or rounding out any of her other skills to make her mesh into a performance.

 

From what we've seen on screen she has argued with directors about styling choices, suggested unwarranted rewrites, blown off a cast party to hang out with her friends, broken a contract, bailed on a successful broadway play after a month because she was bored and has been in a terrible tv show. Also she complained endlessly about the understudy process even though it's an industry standard, sabotaged a PR opportunity for the show by freaking out over Santana's inclusion as an understudy and to cap it all off she basically gave a big F you to Whoopi who gave her a second chance after she choked during her first audition because she didn't NEED HER OR THE SCHOOL after getting a job.

 

If this show had any grasp on reality Rachel would have been blacklisted or at least would have a reputation as a HIGH RISK.  At this point we are supposed to cheer over Rachel's success after a single audition that happened offscreen after learning no humility or anything.

Edited March 9, 2015 by wayne67

[phoenixrising]

If someone can tell how Rachel is anymore prepared to be on Broadway than she was last time I am open to changing my mind but from where I sit she is the exact same woman, if even less self aware, as the woman Carmen accurately predicted would soon flame out because of her lack of training combined with her delusional self importance.

She's the same person, but those flaws also made her leave NYADA. She wasn't willing to learn then, and I don't think she's more willing to learn now. At least if she choses Broadway, she won't be wasting another 50k. And maybe these directors or producers will have a backbone, and challenge Rachel. Maybe she'll actually respect them. We've seen she has no respect for Carmen.

Again, her having these options is totally unearned, and right now, I want her career to be the janitor at a theater, until she can grow up. Which will never happen with these writers.

[dizzyizzy01]

The curriculum isn't the only thing that is important about a performing arts school. When Rachel was part of the Winter Showcase that was supposedly a big deal and a way to get noticed by people who invest in those Broadway plays and in performing arts.

 

There are also valuable connections to be made from a performing arts school such as a nod from Whoopi could get her into various audition rooms. Such as Mercedes having the inside scoop on an audition for Rachel but on a larger scale.

 

As for the job we don't really know what it entails or how well it's run, the other members of the cast or how well it's done. NYADA on the other hand is supposedly a great institution to hone your craft.

 

At this point Rachel is more of a one trick pony, she can stand and sing but she doesn't have the commitment to improving her dance skills or rounding out any of her other skills to make her mesh into a performance.

 

From what we've seen on screen she has argued with directors about styling choices, suggested unwarranted rewrites, blown off a cast party to hang out with her friends, broken a contract, bailed on a successful broadway play after a month because she was bored and has been in a terrible tv show. Also she complained endlessly about the understudy process even though it's an industry standard, sabotaged a PR opportunity for the show by freaking out over Santana's inclusion as an understudy and to cap it all off she basically gave a big F you to Whoopi who gave her a second chance after she choked during her first audition because she didn't NEED HER OR THE SCHOOL after getting a job.

 

If this show had any grasp on reality Rachel would have been blacklisted or at least would have a reputation as a HIGH RISK.  At this point we are supposed to cheer over Rachel's success after a single audition that happened offscreen after learning no humility or anything.

 

This show has no grip on reality.  If it were, none of the Funny Girl stuff or That's So Rachel stuff would have actually happened either.  But if it were based in reality, and an aspiring performer had the choice between a viable job and continuing to pay $50k a year in tuition for the chance at a viable professional opportunity, the choice is an easy one.   Real performing arts schools actually encourage their students to explore outside the school if presented the opportunity, and the reality is that school programs are always there.  Job opportunities aren't.  Just ask about 80% of the guilds.  The majority struggle to make a living in their profession (degree or not).  

 

The thing is, Rachel has demonstrated the ability to carry a show.  Funny Girl was a success until she made a stupid decision to abandon her contract.  That's not actually something you need to learn from school (i.e., how not to make bad decisions).  It's something life experience teaches you, and honestly, real-life crashing and burning teaches it better than any classroom setting.  

 

And of course, I said it has to be a legitimate professional opportunity.  We don't know if it is yet, but it certainly has been presented as one in show, and nothing has discouraged that understanding so far.  If it turns out to be a another "That's So Rachel" that's a different situation all together.  

 

Not a dumb choice at all for someone who already chose a role over school and blew that chance in such spectacular fashion she ended slinking back to her home town. It isn't so much that school can teach rachel the business side of things (although that is part of it), it is that it can teach her how to turn a good audition into a lasting career through honing skills such as keeping the material fresh and approaching a show as a team effort. Many performers can learn those on the job. Rachel has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt she can't.  

 

If Rachel takes this role and flames out again (and every indication is that she would as she hasn't seem have learned a thing) how long would her career last? For that matter could Mercedes get her another audition after Rachel blew it a second time? 

 

Sure there is a chance she won't ever get another shot at Broadway of she turns down this role for NYADA but every indication is there is a much bigger chance if she takes this role she will once again crash and burn which would effectively end any chance she has for a career.

 

If someone can tell how Rachel is anymore prepared to be on Broadway than she was last time I am open to changing my mind but from where I sit she is the exact same woman, if even less self aware, as the woman Carmen accurately predicted would soon flame out because of her lack of training combined with her delusional self importance.

 

I agree Sam isn't the right person to deliver that message but some one needs to deliver it. April Rhodes would be a good candidate. She flamed out on Broadway a couple of times because she didn't have the training and discipline to make a career out of a some good auditions and is now spending her days in branson. That could easily be Rachel if she takes this role and blows it as is very likely at the moment.

 

 

I still maintain it is a dumb choice and a dumb story to tell.  The writers failed to set-up any build-up of a story so they've created this false sense of conflict with this decision point.  It's an illogical decision to present to an aspiring performer.  And performing arts schools really don't cover the business side of things in any meaningful way.  And why do people talk in such absolutes?  Who the hell knows if Rachel will flame out again?  There's nothing to indicate that will happen because the show hasn't spent enough time on Rachel to show anything.  It's spent this entire season on bizarro surprise marriages and crazy cartoonish Sue.

 

Also, April Rhodes may serve as a cautionary tale, but she's kind of an ill-advised person to be giving advice as well.  She's an alcoholic so her burn out and lack of discipline is a bit different than Rachel's.  Rachel was basically a stupid kid that made a very stupid decision without really realizing the very real risks of her decision.  She's never been shown to lack work ethic.  She apparently got a sudden case of ADD, and she thought she was going after a better more interesting opportunity.  It was stupid as all hell and honestly made no sense for her character (LA & TV vs. NY & Broadway was a complete 180), but it happened.  In theory, Carmen could be a reasonable voice of reason, but I bet a reasonable adviser in a performing arts school would encourage you to pursue outside professional opportunities if they were truly viable.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[phoenixrising]

 She's never been shown to lack work ethic.  She apparently got a sudden case of ADD, and she thought she was going after a better more interesting opportunity.

So Rachel Berry is Ryan Murphy. This explains so much.

[dizzyizzy01]

She's the same person, but those flaws also made her leave NYADA. She wasn't willing to learn then, and I don't think she's more willing to learn now. At least if she choses Broadway, she won't be wasting another 50k. And maybe these directors or producers will have a backbone, and challenge Rachel. Maybe she'll actually respect them. We've seen she has no respect for Carmen.

Again, her having these options is totally unearned, and right now, I want her career to be the janitor at a theater, until she can grow up. Which will never happen with these writers.

 

The choices absolutely do feel unearned.  It just makes little logical sense for Rachel to make the choice of going back to school if it's a legitimate professional opportunity she's being given. I wish they had actually spent some time this season on giving us Rachel's POV and thought process.  Instead, we have had a bunch of people talking at her and for her.  I know people complain about Mercedes/Sam/Kurt/whoever being Rachel's cheerleaders, and that's annoying and cheapens the story in so many ways.  We haven't gotten any classic Rachel Berry voiceovers.  We didn't get to hear her pleading with Carmen where apparently she came across as humbled.  We didn't get to really see her freak out over preparing for an audition for the first time since she came back to Lima, just some initial hesitance.  We haven't gotten anything to really show her POV.

[Glorfindel]

If someone can tell how Rachel is anymore prepared to be on Broadway than she was last time I am open to changing my mind but from where I sit she is the exact same woman, if even less self aware, as the woman Carmen accurately predicted would soon flame out because of her lack of training combined with her delusional self importance.

The fact that Rachel said she wanted to return to New York as a winner, instead of e.g saying she wanted to be on stage again, is a red flag that she will most likely flame out again.

It's not about winning, it should be about the art and joy of performing.

[dizzyizzy01]

The fact that Rachel said she wanted to return to New York as a winner, instead of e.g saying she wanted to be on stage again, is a red flag that she will most likely flame out again.

It's not about winning, it should be about the art and joy of performing.

To focus on one particular word choice out of in her entire speech is a bit of leap I think.  In the same breadth she said she wanted to get back to who she was, which I would believe is someone that has a love for performing.  I mean that had been her character for the last five seasons.  She's the girl who claimed she needed applause to live.  I think the crux of the issue is that the show didn't give any weight to Rachel's POV throughout this season as to where she was and how she was feeling.  We got that one voice over at the beginning of this episode and her reaching out to Carmen, but the season has been mostly people speaking for her and on her behalf.  And of course the development in the decision presented in this episode is super rushed and comes out of nowhere.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[Hana Chan]

I'm going to disagree that Rachel's POV was neglected this season. We saw clearly her humiliation at her failure about her TV show failing and her struggling to find her determination again. The problem is that Rachel still lacks direction and focus. NYADA again was only important as a means to get her back to the stage and the instant that a stage option became available, all of Rachel's talk about getting into NYADA being so very important to her fell by the wayside.

 

And I think the "winner" comment by Rachel is important because it's an indication of what she considers important. Rachel has always wanted to be a "star". She's not particularly interested in the process part of acting or has a real interest in developing her craft because the instant she got a lead role, she took that as indication that she needed no improvement. We even saw in NYADA that she was less interested in improving her skills as a performer (such as in her dance class) than being proven that she was the best student in the school and using the opportunities NYADA offered to showcase herself. Instead of taking away from her epic failure (which I don't believe was out of character for Rachel given the history of the choices that she's made over the past few seasons) that she needs time to learn and mature before she's read to handle the responsibilities that come with leading a production, it's about her being a "winner". That all the naysayers and people who laughed at her embarrassment would be proven wrong. And the sad thing is that the show mocks those who are devoted to working and studying to become better performers (like Kurt) and lavishes rewards on Rachel who despite showing that she just isn't mature enough to be in the business will get chance after chance that she didn't work for and never really appreciates.

[dizzyizzy01]

I'm going to disagree that Rachel's POV was neglected this season. We saw clearly her humiliation at her failure about her TV show failing and her struggling to find her determination again. The problem is that Rachel still lacks direction and focus. NYADA again was only important as a means to get her back to the stage and the instant that a stage option became available, all of Rachel's talk about getting into NYADA being so very important to her fell by the wayside.

I think we saw her feel humiliated in the first episode, but the show has largely ignored Rachel's POV throughout the season. We've had Mercedes set up an audition. We had Sam commandeer Glee Club when she was feeling out of sorts when her house was being sold. Yes, we have seen things being done to Rachel and for Rachel, but rarely her own thoughts. She's had a few lines that stated she wasn't feeling ready for that audition and afraid to go back, but that's been it. Everything else has been about stupid hypnosis, cartoon Sue, Becky, surprise weddings, bratty child Bar Mitzvahs. I mean this NYADA thing showed up 10 episodes in and with 3 episodes from the Series Finale. We hadn't heard about her trying to get in contact with Carmen or that she was even thinking about going back to NYADA until now. It's not like the meeting Carmen just magically happened. Rachel had to have been trying to get a meeting with the Dean for a while. And why is she thinking about NYADA and going back? The show hasn't really shown ANY of that. We haven't even had a Rachel Berry sings her feelings solo since the first episode =P.

It's just lots of crappy story telling, but that's nothing really new with this show. We haven't had proper character and story development since maybe S4 if I'm being generous.

Also, just to comment and NYADA as a means to an end. That's is exactly what NYADA is for someone like Rachel, or most aspiring performers really. For Rachel, I believe it totally is a means to get back on stage. Like any other profession, people go to these schools to hopefully get the jobs and careers in the field they want. The difference is an actual degree from a performing arts school doesn't really mean very much especially if you're already getting jobs. I mean, if Kurt was offered a lead role on a Broadway show and that was his dream, you don't think he'd take it? I'd certainly prefer watching that instead of the stupid Blaine/Kurt nonsense.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[Glorfindel]

To focus on one particular word choice out of in her entire speech is a bit of leap I think.  In the same breadth she said she wanted to get back to who she was, which I would believe is someone that has a love for performing.  I mean that had been her character for the last five seasons.  She's the girl who claimed she needed applause to live.

 

This is what Rachel said when she got the call that she was admitted again at NYADA:

"It’s pathetic and worse than that it’s desperate to cling to the idea of going back there…Sam, I just want to go back to New York a winner, not with my tail between my legs…What’s wrong with this?! This is what I wanted! It’s not a mistake. Me going back to my life and who I was is not a mistake.”

 

So as soon as she gets another role on Broadway Rachel thinks going back to college, the college she was begging Carmen for in season 3 and is now begging her for again this very episode, is pathetic and desperate, and she wants to reject the very generous offer Carmen made her. This tells me that Rachel doesn't respect Carmen at all nor truly appreciates the 4th(!) chance she's been given, and doesn't really want to be back in NYADA to learn from her past mistakes.

Rachel's no better than she was when she badmouthed NYADA and Carmen when she got 'Funny Girl' and told her she doesn't need NYADA anymore, because one year later she readily dismisses NYADA again and doesn't think she needs it anymore the second another golden opportunity is handed to her.

 

Rachel wants to go back a "winner" instead with her tail between her legs (so going back to college would feel like a defeat and humiliation to her), which indicates to me that she isn't really sorry or humbled at all, does not realize/acknowledge that she still has to learn, and was just faking it (or fooling herself) to get Carmen to give her another chance.

That word choice actually matters a lot:

- Broadway star = "winner"

- NYADA student = "tail between my legs".

It's just a few words, yes, but they're significant and clear, plus Rachel did not even mention the art or her love for performing once.

 

At the beginning of the episode Rachel says about NYADA that "I used to see this place as just another stepping stone on the way to bigger things. But I’m not that girl anymore." But a few days later she's very eager to immediately drop NYADA again when she doesn't need it anymore to get on Broadway after all. So Rachel only proves that she still is that girl, and that NYADA still isn't anything more for her than a stepping stone, and not something she realizes now (after her failures) she needs to improve herself to not make the same mistakes again.

She never wanted to go back to NYADA to actually learn and hone her craft. Carmen told Rachel "What you lack is foundation: you don't listen and you don't take direction." Rachel still doesn't want to listen or take direction, nothing has changed in that regard.

 

Rachel wants her old life back, but what was her life? Being the "star" in Funny Girl. And when that wasn't good enough anymore because the work became boring she wanted to be a "star" in her own TV show.

Carmen also asked Rachel in 'Bash': "Do you care about the work or is it just about the spotlight?".  Yes, Rachel needs applause to live, but that's not necessarily a good thing: with all I've seen of Rachel over the seasons (and not just season 5 with 'Funny Girl') I'd say Rachel wants to be a star a lot more than she wants to be a performer who just loves the craft.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Glorfindel

[fakeempress]

 

Every single achievement/milestone on this show feels so unearned.  Rachel getting another Broadway role after 1 audition, Santana/Britney getting married, Blaine/Kurt breaking up and getting married, Mercedes somehow being some recording star, Kurt with his Vogue internship and NYADA, Sam miraculously getting a modeling contract and now back in Lima teaching without a degree.

I strongly disagree that NYADA was unearned in Kurt's case. I think it's one of the few things on this show that were earned, and not only in the space of a single episode (contrary to what RIB are prone to do).

[LydiaMoon1]

Every single achievement/milestone on this show feels so unearned.  Rachel getting another Broadway role after 1 audition, Santana/Britney getting married, Blaine/Kurt breaking up and getting married, Mercedes somehow being some recording star, Kurt with his Vogue internship and NYADA, Sam miraculously getting a modeling contract and now back in Lima teaching without a degree.

I fail to see how Mercedes' success is unearned.  She has the drive and the talent.  She relocated to LA and became a backup singer.  From there, she was offered a recording contract.  She made one album that wasn't released and was dropped from her label, so she sold CDs out of the truck of her car until she got lucky and her CD was heard by influential people (and don't tell me luck doesn't play a role sometimes in getting a break in showbiz) which led to her getting a 2nd record deal. It took over six months to record her 2nd album, and when it was completed her label sent her on a mall tour and now her album had been met with some moderate success. That seems entirely plausible to me.

 

The only thing unbelievable about Mercedes' storyline is that she would waste her  time in Lima, OH being Rachel Berry's fairy godmother when she should be promoting her album and living her own life.

[Sara2009]

I'd argue that Will's success in regards to his personal life has been earned as well. His career story line throughout the years has been all over the place, but him finally getting the family he's always wanted feels right to me.

[camussie]

The thing is, Rachel has demonstrated the ability to carry a show.  Funny Girl was a success until she made a stupid decision to abandon her contract.  That's not actually something you need to learn from school (i.e., how not to make bad decisions).  It's something life experience teaches you, and honestly, real-life crashing and burning teaches it better than any classroom setting.

 

 

And yet there is no indication it taught Rachel a dang thing.  She is still focused on being a star in a show versus being a performer who builds a career.  So what happens when she goes back to Broadway, having not learned a thing?  Most likely she flames out again.  And what then?  I would say it is entirely possible that is the end of the line for her Broadway career.  

[camussie]

Answering about Mercedes in the all episodes thread

[Ann Mack]

And yet there is no indication it taught Rachel a dang thing.  She is still focused on being a star in a show versus being a performer who builds a career.  So what happens when she goes back to Broadway, having not learned a thing?  Most likely she flames out again.  And what then?  I would say it is entirely possible that is the end of the line for her Broadway career.  

 

Well in Glee-land were the "lead" (whatever I can't take such a display of someone so weak as Rachel seriously as a lead but it is what it is) gets whatever she wants whether its earned or not will be a winner. Its already spoiled that she wins a Tony. So I guess the delay in that winning is suppose to be because although it won't be shown is Rachel realizing her shortcomings and working hard to earn that win. So I guess in the long haul whatever she choose won't matter cause she'll get what she wants and that's being "A WINNER"!

[dizzyizzy01]

And yet there is no indication it taught Rachel a dang thing.  She is still focused on being a star in a show versus being a performer who builds a career.  So what happens when she goes back to Broadway, having not learned a thing?  Most likely she flames out again.  And what then?  I would say it is entirely possible that is the end of the line for her Broadway career.  

Which would be fine and her fault.  It's just ridiculous to think NYADA is the only proper way to learn this.  The best lessons in life are things that happen outside the classroom.  If she didn't learn from her flame out the first time, NYADA isn't going to teach her a god damn thing to correct her poor decision making.  She's just going to have an extra hundred grand in college debt.  A performance arts college isn't the same thing as a normal education.  You don't need that degree to be successful and actually most actors don't.  It's a career that most people realize is fairly risky and you need to take those risks sometime.  The thing is schools/programs will likely always be there.  She may not be able to go to NYADA again, but there are other programs.  If the new Broadway role is a viable opportunity, it all the logical sense in the world to take it.  

 

So as soon as she gets another role on Broadway Rachel thinks going back to college, the college she was begging Carmen for in season 3 and is now begging her for again this very episode, is pathetic and desperate, and she wants to reject the very generous offer Carmen made her. This tells me that Rachel doesn't respect Carmen at all nor truly appreciates the 4th(!) chance she's been given, and doesn't really want to be back in NYADA to learn from her past mistakes.

 

 

We don't even know her ultimate decision yet.  In this scene before the call, she thought her best and really only option to go back was the Broadway role.  She had just heard her friends say she was reaching about NYADA and that basically she needed to come back down to reality about getting another shot.  With the way Sam was sent in to be the "voice of reason", I unfortunately think she's going to choose school anyway so what does it even matter if it's totally unrealistic.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[fakeempress]

 

We're told that these characters suddenly achieved some major success.  The development isn't shown.  Just the ultimate success.  Whether it's Kurt and Vogue/NYADA, Blaine/NYADA, Rachel and Broadway, Mercedes and her recording contract, even Will getting hired by VA where apparently he was getting a really good salary but was a horrible fit.  Kurt got some vague stuff about NYADA where he didn't get in at first, but we didn't see much of him working towards getting in a second time.

 

Kurt told Isabel his goal was to reapply to NYADA, and on the basis of Season 3 Kurt and his first audition, I have no problem believing he was preparing himself and rehearsing for reapplying as he said, though it'd been nice if he got a solo or two out of such a SL (but we know it wasn't coming anyway). And in NYADA they showed him in classes, and rehearsing. I think Kurt's NYADA story is one of the most normal and believable post-MKH stories they had for any character - it's being accepted into and attending college after all, not headlining a Broadway musical out of high school or something. 

 

That's why I don't think it's at the same level as the magic Vogue internship. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[dizzyizzy01]

Kurt told Isabel his goal was to reapply to NYADA, and on the basis of Season 3 Kurt and his first audition, I have no problem believing he was preparing himself and rehearsing for reapplying as he said, though it'd been nice if he got a solo or two out of such a SL (but we know it wasn't coming anyway). And in NYADA they showed him in classes, and rehearsing. I think Kurt's NYADA story is one of the most normal and believable post-MKH stories they had for any character - it's being accepted into and attending college after all, not headlining a Broadway musical out of high school or something. 

It was slightly better done than some of the other stories, but again we're told something instead of shown anything so it still feels unearned when it happens. How the heck does a kid out of Ohio with no portfolio or relevant experience on his CV get an internship at Vogue?  And I just needed to see something where it felt like Kurt was working towards his NYADA audition for it to have any weight.  As it were, we knew he was going to get in.  It just makes every achievement less fulfilling to watch. Once he got into NYADA it got better because unfortunately Kurt's career aspirations were basically put on to focus on Blaine and support the dysfunction that is Blaine/Kurt.  

[fakeempress]

 

And I just needed to see something where it felt like Kurt was working towards his NYADA audition for it to have any weight

I didn't think a montage of Kurt rehearsing was really lacking, since we've seen him in previous seasons how does that, and we knew what his goals were. It's in the "nice to have" column for me, to get more screentime for him and a solo or two out of it, but I can't agree the second audition and him getting into NYADA didn't have any weight without showing him rehearse. The show not tell issue isn't a big problem for me in this particular case. But it is an issue in general, no contest. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[indeed]

And I just needed to see something where it felt like Kurt was working towards his NYADA audition for it to have any weight.

Sorry for the OT, but there was more than just what was already mentioned for Kurt's "journey to NYADA". He went to see Madame Tibideaux while he was in NY and she referred to him applying again with a video or something we didn't get to see because it didn't involve Rachel or Blaine. So, yes, more telling and not showing, but he did do something other than just being in the audience for Winter Showcase and being lucky enough for Madame Tibideaux to notice him and call on him.

I can't really call into question Kurt's "earning" his spot at NYADA when we have Blaine's effortless acceptance to such a competitive school. Now Rachel is just let back in? Madame Tibideaux is really losing her cred lately...

As for this episode, I can't believe the rise and fall of Sue Sylvester didn't involve Figgins in any way (or did I miss a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo?). That Becky, not cool.

Ugh, I hate the Warblers and their stupid Blazers. LOL

[camussie]

Which would be fine and her fault.  It's just ridiculous to think NYADA is the only proper way to learn this.  The best lessons in life are things that happen outside the classroom.  If she didn't learn from her flame out the first time, NYADA isn't going to teach her a god damn thing to correct her poor decision making.  She's just going to have an extra hundred grand in college debt.  A performance arts college isn't the same thing as a normal education.  You don't need that degree to be successful and actually most actors don't.  It's a career that most people realize is fairly risky and you need to take those risks sometime.  The thing is schools/programs will likely always be there.  She may not be able to go to NYADA again, but there are other programs.  If the new Broadway role is a viable opportunity, it all the logical sense in the world to take i

 

 

It isn't the only proper way to learn about it for most people in the real world but in Rachel's particular case in the Glee universe it seems more likely that she will learn some of the discipline and perspective she needs to actually build a career by choosing NYADA over Broadway.  That is the circumstances we are talking about here - Rachel in the Glee universe not most people in the real world and even in the real "all logical sense" does not dictate choosing a role over school.   There are plenty of well trained actors who would tell you their education was invaluable to their success.  Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Jessica Chastain, etc.  Meryl Streep become the one to look for on Broadway  (plays) because of the buzz around her performances in the esteemed Yale MFA drama program.  

 

Also the risk Rachel is taking is not the same risk others usually take.  The risk isn't as much as she will never get another job again.  The risks is is she prepared to actually handle the job this time so that she won't flame out in epic fashion and perhaps irrevocably tarnish her reputation.  There has been nothing in her story this year, up to an including this latest episode, that says yes she can handle the spotlight this time.   There is nothing in her story that indicates she learned any of those "best lessons in life are things that happen outside the classroom."  

 

Sure there is no indication that she would learn what she needs to succeed at NYADA either because of how inherently entitled and weak she has become but that time and communal experience could give her more breathing room to learn those lessons the the pressures of a million dollar production will.  There is also that Carmen, someone who is the Glee universe is an expert on building a career on Broadway,  predicted exactly what would happen to Rachel if she dropped.  In the Glee universe more than anyone else (Rachel, Sam, Jessie, Kurt, will, April) Carmen knows what it takes to make it on Broadway and in her estimation Rachel needs what NYADA can offer to build a lasting career.

 

With the way Sam was sent in to be the "voice of reason", I unfortunately think she's going to choose school anyway so what does it even matter if it's totally unrealistic.

 

 

So Sam weighing in is problematic to you but Jessie doing the same is just fine?  Jessie, who like Sam, decided college wasn't for him (after he failed out)?  Personally I think Rachel should tell both of them she appreciates that they care but it is time she puts her big girl pants on and decide this on her own.

Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

It isn't the only proper way to learn about it for most people in the real world but in Rachel's particular case in the Glee universe it seems more likely that she will learn some of the discipline and perspective she needs to actually build a career by choosing NYADA over Broadway.  That is the circumstances we are talking about here - Rachel in the Glee universe not most people in the real world and even in the real "all logical sense" does not dictate choosing a role over school.   There are plenty of well trained actors who would tell you their education was invaluable to their success.  Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Jessica Chastain, etc.  Meryl Streep become the one to look for on Broadway  (plays) because of the buzz around her performances in the esteemed Yale MFA drama program.  

 

Also the risk Rachel is taking is not the same risk others usually take.  The risk isn't as much as she will never get another job again.  The risks is is she prepared to actually handle the job this time so that she won't flame out in epic fashion and perhaps irrevocably tarnish her reputation.  There has been nothing in her story this year, up to an including this latest episode, that says yes she can handle the spotlight this time.   There is nothing in her story that indicates she learned any of those "best lessons in life are things that happen outside the classroom."  

 

Sure there is no indication that she would learn what she needs to succeed at NYADA either because of how inherently entitled and weak she has become but that time and communal experience could give her more breathing room to learn those lessons the the pressures of a million dollar production will.  There is also that Carmen, someone who is the Glee universe is an expert on building a career on Broadway,  predicted exactly what would happen to Rachel if she dropped.  In the Glee universe more than anyone else (Rachel, Sam, Jessie, Kurt, will, April) Carmen knows what it takes to make it on Broadway and in her estimation Rachel needs what NYADA can offer to build a lasting career.

 

 

So Sam weighing in is problematic to you but Jessie doing the same is just fine?  Jessie, who like Sam, decided college wasn't for him (after he failed out)?  Personally I think Rachel should tell both of them she appreciates that they care but it is time she puts her big girl pants on and decide this on her own.

There are also a lot more examples of people that left school when the right opportunity came along.  And people like to bring up Meryl a lot, but Meryl didn't go to school with the intent of becoming an actor until her Yale program.  She hadn't seriously started pursuing acting until she was well into her undergrad.  People bring reality in their Glee comparisons all the time.  Like how unrealistic Rachel getting another offer is or her getting another chance at NYADA.  How she'd be blackballed from Broadway, etc.  I'm making the same "real-life" comparison and saying why this set-up to create some false sense of conflict is cheap and stupid.  Tell me an example of a middle-class kid that is going to opt to pay $50k a year in tuition for a performing arts degree for a maybe future chance at a job in their desired profession when they're being presented what seems to be a real job opportunity?  I think it'd be difficult to come up with one cause it's frankly a pretty illogical decision to make.

 

I didn't mention Jesse in my post at all, but I don't think any of those characters should be telling Rachel what to do.  Rachel should be making decisions on her own.  She can take her friend's input into consideration, but Sam is basically the worst person to be giving any sort of advice on the matter.  At least Jesse is interested in the same profession Rachel is.  WTF does Sam bring?  I'd prefer pretty much anyone else's input.  Mr. Schue, Mercedes, Kurt, Jesse, Shelby?!...  Basically anybody but Sam.

[Sara2009]

There are also a lot more examples of people that left school when the right opportunity came along. And people like to bring up Meryl a lot, but Meryl didn't go to school with the intent of becoming an actor until her Yale program. She hadn't seriously started pursuing acting until she was well into her undergrad. People bring reality in their Glee comparisons all the time. Like how unrealistic Rachel getting another offer is or her getting another chance at NYADA. How she'd be blackballed from Broadway, etc. I'm making the same "real-life" comparison and saying why this set-up to create some false sense of conflict is

cheap and stupid. Tell me an example of a middle-class kid that is going to opt to pay $50k a year in tuition for a performing arts degree for a maybe future chance at a job in their desired profession when they're being presented what seems to be a real job opportunity? I think it'd be difficult to come up with one cause it's frankly a pretty illogical decision to make.

I didn't mention Jesse in my post at all, but I don't think any of those characters should be telling Rachel what to do. Rachel

should be making decisions on her own. She can take her friend's input into consideration, but Sam is basically the worst person to be giving any sort of advice on the matter. At least Jesse is interested in the same profession Rachel is. WTF does Sam bring? I'd prefer pretty much anyone else's input. Mr. Schue, Mercedes, Kurt, Jesse, Shelby?!... Basically anybody but Sam.

In fact, Will actually told Sam that Rachel was a big girl. I found that sort of refreshing.

[dizzyizzy01]

In fact, Will actually told Sam that Rachel was a big girl. I found that sort of refreshing.

I liked that moment also.  I just think Sam should keep his mouth shut.  He's just in no position to be giving advice.

[camussie]

Glee is not real life, though.  In the Glee universe Rachel has already tried Broadway and crashed and burned because she didn't have the skills and seasoning to back up her talent, exactly like Carmen predicted she would and I mean exactly. So in the Glee universe the question is which of these two options - going back to NYADA or taking this role gives Rachel a better chance at a lasting career versus another one and done turn on Broadway?  The one character the show calls an expert on building a career on Broadway (Carmen) made it clear she thinks Rachel needs school.  Given those facts in the Glee universe school is the more logical choice for Rachel.  That is if she wants to build a career

 

People may not like that the Glee universe is not representative of what they think are absolute truths in the real world (like someone would never ever ever choose school over an actual role) but in the Glee universe the choice being between the immediate gratification of being a star again,  but inevitably crashing and burning, versus going to school in order to build a career is entirely consistent with the story the show set up last year when Rachel left NYADA in such a petulant manner.  

 

Also since when is Rachel middle class?  I realize her dads are divorcing but there is no indication that they won't support her in school again.  That is another reason I scoffed at Kurt saying they have overcome so much.  Both he and Rachel and Santana, for that matter, always had the cushion of their parents footing the bill as they tried their hand at  "conquering NY."  There wasn't any salad days for any of them because their parents were footing the bill.

 

In fact, Will actually told Sam that Rachel was a big girl. I found that sort of refreshing.

 

I was glad Will said that too.  Now i just want Rachel to prove him right and tell Jesse, Sam, and Kurt to all back off because this is a decision she has to make.  Sadly I doubt she does because she is just spineless of a character now.

Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie

[Hana Chan]

If Rachel were a normal individual and not a karmic Houdini who never has to suffer consequences for her actions, I'd be all for her rushing back to Broadway and learning from the school of hard knocks. But Rachel doesn't exist in anything close to the real work, where quitting a show fresh into your run (especially your first professional job ever) would render you unemployable for a very extended period. In the real world, Rachel would have been slapped down each time she acted unprofessionally (like protesting the need for an understudy, and then driving her off), not given a town car to use at her disposal. In the real world, Rachel would have been fired after ditching a performance to jet out to LA, not just given a stern warning (and they could fire her because there would have been a credible understudy ready to take the part). She sure as hell wouldn't have gotten an audition because a classmate who just completed a tour of American shopping malls was able to call in a favor with Russell Simmons and get her cast without even a call back.

 

For all the focus the show gave this season to Rachel's trials after torpedoing over her career, she certainly hasn't shown any growth or sense of responsibility. No, she is owed Broadway, because she belongs there and it's a cosmic injustice of the worst kind for her to actually be held responsible for her decisions.  She is as delusional and self-entitled as she was when she decided that being successful in television would just open all the doors on Broadway that she was shutting when she quit Funny Girl. She's not going back because she loves to perform and it's killing her to not be performing in some capacity. She's going back because she doesn't want to be seen as a loser. And in her conceit, those who decide that maybe they're not quite ready to plunge into the professional theater world and take advantage of the educational opportunities at a school like NYADA are losers in her world. She's proving again and again that she hasn't learned a single fucking thing.

 

But because Glee is a crap show, she's just going to keep getting rewarded. The girl who should have been laughed out of every off-off-Broadway audition because she's got a proven track record for being self-serving and unreliable is just given the kind of prizes that every other character would happily sacrifice their eyeteeth for and she treats it as if it's owed to her. She can turn her nose up at NYADA because despite being told (and shown) repeatedly that she's got the resilience of an overcooked noodle and the discipline of a three year old that she will never be held accountable for her actions. The rewards will just pour in because Rachel Berry wants them.

[grandemocha]

 

In the real world, Rachel would have been slapped down each time she acted unprofessionally (like protesting the need for an understudy, and then driving her off), not given a town car to use at her disposal. In the real world, Rachel would have been fired after ditching a performance to jet out to LA, not just given a stern warning (and they could fire her because there would have been a credible understudy ready to take the part).

Can't have it both ways. Either Rachel exists in Glee world and we hold her to Glee world standards, or we use real world logic.

If we're using real world logic, then Rachel would be goddamn stupid to take on a ton of debt to complete an education that may or may not help her get a new role in her chosen career field.

 

For all we know in Glee world, Sidney was only pissed off that Rachel left Funny Girl for a few months and then got over it. 

 

In the real world, Rachel would have been fired after ditching a performance to jet out to LA, not just given a stern warning (and they could fire her because there would have been a credible understudy ready to take the part).

This isn't the real world. It doesn't matter what would happen in NYC in reality on Broadway because Rachel lives in happy Glee land along with the rest of the characters who all succeed in the arts and don't ever suffer serious setbacks. None of these characters were ever financially destitute, eating ramen noodles 24/7. None of them ever thought to themselves "Hey, I'm obviously not going to make it performing so I need to switch gears and find a career that makes sense."

 

She's not going back because she loves to perform and it's killing her to not be performing in some capacity.

She seems pretty happy to perform from what I've seen. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by grandemocha

[fakeempress]

Can't have it both ways. Either Rachel exists in Glee world and we hold her to Glee world standards, or we use real world logic.

If we're using real world logic, then Rachel would be goddamn stupid to take on a ton of debt to complete an education that may or may not help her get a new role in her chosen career field.

 

For all we know in Glee world, Sidney was only pissed off that Rachel left Funny Girl for a few months and then got over it. 

This isn't the real world. It doesn't matter what would happen in NYC in reality on Broadway because Rachel lives in happy Glee land along with the rest of the characters who all succeed in the arts and don't ever suffer serious setbacks. None of these characters were ever financially destitute, eating ramen noodles 24/7. None of them ever thought to themselves "Hey, I'm obviously not going to make it performing so I need to switch gears and find a career that makes sense."

In any kind of fictional universe, characters are convincing when they learn from their mistakes to earn their second chances -- regardless of the genre conventions. That's what's not happening in Rachel's case so far imo; and it's not a problem of the Glee world per se (the heightened reality aspect) but of writing skills and intent. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[Hana Chan]

The problem is that some character do have to play by real world standards. Kurt constantly gets told that he's going to be passed over in favor on more conventional performers and hasn't gotten the rocketship ride to success just because he made it into a good school. Blaine got some good opportunities, but let them slip through his fingers and is drifting now as a result. Mercedes wouldn't compromise her values and lost out on her first album deal and had to claw her way back to a new one.

 

Rachel, though, doesn't have to play by anything even close to real world or even Glee world rules. Rules get twisted and bent in any way necessary to justify Rachel succeeding in the end. I wouldn't care about Rachel's constant successes if Glee at least followed their own rules when it came to how they treated her, but she's apparently immune from any kind of boundaries. You can't have most characters hemmed in by one set of rules and others (primarily Rachel and to a slightly lesser degree Blaine) given carte blanche immunity. That's just poor and lazy storytelling, where the end will justify whatever means they take to get there.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Hana Chan

[grandemocha]

Blaine got some good opportunities, but let them slip through his fingers and is drifting now as a result.

 

SOME good opportunities? Really? He got into NYADA on his first try while people like Kurt, Jesse St. James, and Elliot either didn't make it or had to struggle.

Blaine gets stuff handed to him on a silver platter all the time and he's just as unappreciative of it as Rachel is/was but doesn't get called out on it nearly as often. Glee just doesn't make sense. Blaine (as a freshman) was somehow in Kurt's class if I recall? How the hell would that happen? And no offense to Darren fans, but I don't think Blaine would be SO impressive that Tibideaux would choose him over so many other candidates across the US to fill one of 20 spots. IMO, someone like Dean Geyer (Brody) probably wouldn't have gotten in either, but mehh. 

 

On the other hand, I've had to sit through a good three seasons with Rachel being taught a lesson by every man within a 25 foot radius of her pretty much every other episode. It's disgusting but typical of how Glee treats women on the show compared to white men.

Kurt hasn't exactly had it rough 24/7 since the pilot IMO, but I know YMMV.

 

Rachel plays by Glee world rules just like the other special snowflakes. It's about perspective IMO. Depending on the character you love, you (general you) will see them as playing by the rules or not.

 

Rachel is drifting in Ohio just like Blaine is. It's just a contrived bullshit plot. Ryan Murphy wanted them all back in Lima for the last season so the characters were placed there in any way possible. Which resulted in frustration on the audience's part seeing some of their favorite characters acting OOC.

Edited March 9, 2015 by grandemocha

[Hana Chan]

Blaine also got expelled because he didn't keep his grades up after he and Kurt broke up and he doesn't seem to have a magical trap door waiting that will save him from his mistakes. And I did note that he (after Rachel) is the character who also generally benefits from the Special Snowflake treatment.

 

And why is it "contrived bullshit" when Rachel gets stuck with dealing with consequences of things that actually happened on the show but if other characters get the shit end of the stick (like Kurt not getting admitted to NYADA the first time around after nailing his audition) we have to justify it as just real world consequences. You can't have one set of rules for one character and a different sent for just about everyone else. That's just crap storytelling.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Hana Chan