S01.E09: Unto The Breach

[SnarkKitty]

I like the term applied to Cookie upthread - "All gas and no brakes." I love the character but she can be exhausting. She just comes out the gate on 100, all the time. Hell, even SHE should be tired. Sometimes I just want to say "Shhh! Use your inside voice."

 

 

Responding to The Haves and The Have Nots part of your post regarding my ideas?  I disagree!  First of all, whatever unfavorable issues that may exist with that Tyler Perry show has to do with the way he CHOOSES to write his characters.  It's not the characters themselves.  Not to brag or anything, but I think my ideas are pretty damn hot .  I tend to believe that people will eventually grow weary of the weekly ghetto fest (sorry, that's kinda how I see this show right now).

Edited by Syndicate, Today. 7:30 pm.

 

I'm not so sure about that. People are tuning into Empire (in droves) precisely to see the show they've created. I don't think anyone is tuning in, waiting for it to become a bougie black soap. I know I'm not tuning in to hoping for those tired retreads to be dragged into yet another show. I'm very much enjoying some new "black-ting" blood in the forms of Trai and Bryshere, and Ta'Rhonda Jones. (And of course Jussie but he's hardly new having started on TV at 9. Plus my residual "The Skinny" lurve.) 

[phoenics]

I have no desire to see anything from THATHN on Empire - I don't watch that show for a reason.

[teezy]

I'll pick one nit with this episode:  I hated the street confrontation between Luscious and Beretti and their gangs, with all these douchebags pulling out their penis substitute guns.  How, um, American TV.  (By the way, how do other countries even do TV shows without everybody having a gun like it is here?  I can't even imagine.)  I'm so over seeing a bunch of guys pointing guns at each other and then, dum dum DUM, cocking the hammer when they're reeeellly mad.  

 

OTOH, I just read an interview with record executives about Empire and one of them said the street element is real in the music business.  So maybe the scene was somewhat accurate, except for it taking place on a main street in broad daylight.  Still don't like it though.

 

Ha ha, gotta admit that was funny.

lol yes it is 

 

i know in real life  they had real og gangster working behind the scenes of the early hiphop record labels

 

p.diddy running with black mafia family

suge knight with bloods

50 cent with supreme

 

it seems most rappers have shady backgrounds  where they might not have been actually doing dirt but seem connected to a well known drug dealer or dope dealer who everyone in the hood knows was doing dirt for real

[teezy]

If Walter White and Stringer Bell can have diehard fans who sympathize with them, then Cookie sure can (I was a big fan of both terribly flawed characters myself).

I do think she needs a formidable opponent because Anika sure isn't it, at least in her current incarnation. I think (hope) a lot of this will be worked out in season 2.

 

but you forget cookie is a woman not just a woman black at that so she gets even less of a pass lol  people hate the black characters on mostly white televison shows even when the black charcater is the one who has the most sense.

 

 

Male characters can rape a woman , murder a child, murder people endless and still be fan favorites and have women shipping them with other characters while female characters get bashed endlessly for the most stupid shit. Alot of this is because of dumb shipping wars and fans having their favorite couples and i thank god empire does not play into shipping  it's clear Andre has way more chemistry with cookie than he does Annika

 

every fandom i've seen from breaking bad to game of thrones it is always the female who is the most hated character no matter how evil or cruel the actions of the male character may be it always either a wife (breaking bad) , child (game of thrones -sansa) who seems to get criticized for the dumbest shit

Edited March 6, 2015 by teezy

[ribboninthesky1]

I watched this episode, after losing interest in the show a few episodes ago, because my sister raved about the brothers' scenes, Andre's in particular.  I agree with the praise of Trai Byers.  I'm not impressed by the writing, but the real genius is the casting.  Some of the actors take what I suspect are stock characters on paper, and breathe life into them.        

 

What I did not expect was to be Team Anika, about whom I was previously ambivalent.  I found myself rooting for her and her scorched earth strategy, even knowing she wouldn't succeed.  I loved that she laid low and tried to play her position, then had no fucks to give, planned to take as many artists with her as she could, AND managed to persuade several people in the company to collude with her.  Alas, they were fired, but that takes skill and cunning.  Plus, it undermines the "Empire is a family" stuff.  

 

I previously was meh about the actress, but I thought Grace Healey did a great job with her scenes in this episode, especially after she was outed.  I liked that she didn't try to justify, explain, or beg forgiveness - she just grabbed her coat, made some phone calls before it was taken, and proceeded to make her exit.  When the show started, I hoped that Anika and Cookie, two very different women with very different lives who've both tolerated a lot of BS, would ultimately develop a begrudging respect for each other and, on the extremely unlikely end, team up to form their own company. Her actions were along the lines of what I'd otherwise hoped for Cookie, and it's a shame that there isn't room for both to thrive.  But the show has a different direction in mind.  C'est la vie.      

[teezy]

i honestly find Annika boring as hell and very unrealistic for a hiphop wife  the type of women who marry these men aren't generally as naive and have alot more street smarts than she does.

Annika is the girl the rapper marries after he already becomes successful sand a multimillionaire and has baby momma or two. But the real life version of her has alot more street smarts than this chick and knows how to play her position.

 

being cheated on by rapper is not a suprise they all fuck groupies,video vixens etc  and she married him for his status so i don't feel any sympathy for her

[Nanrad]

I can't with Cookie. I think she is biased. She hated Anika from the day she met her, for no reason. I think Cookie didn't like Anika because of her color. So I can't totally like Cookie.

What is this based on? Lucius is either the same skin tone or just a shade darker. I know there are levels to this shit, but he series doesn't support this theory. Also, they've hated one another since day one, but Cookie is more vocal.

 

I don't think Cookie dislikes Anika b/c of her being biracial, I think Cookie is jealous of Anika because she represents everything Cookie wishes she had.  She was free, with Lucious living in his big ass house, by his side at Empire for years and being a mother-figure to her sons.  She sees Anika (and rightly so) as a threat to her.  So Cookie does what any good Alpha Dog does, she establishes dominance.  I think Anika  could have been a dark sister and Cookie would have been calling her a fake-ass Lupita.

I agree; Cookie's hate of Anika is about Anika being in the place that Cookie would've been in if she didn't go to prison. It has nothing to do with skin color. 

 

That's very true.  Anika was minding her own business when Cookie appears and screams, "I want what's mine!"  

 

I also didn't like Cookie throwing Anika's clothes away, I guess because neither she, Cookie nor Porsha could fit into them huh?  That's nasty?  So is throwing someone's property away.

 

I know Cookie is supposed to be the "hero" in this story, but I'm sorry,  I can't with her, she's common and nasty. I've known people like Cookie, the key word is "known" meaning I had to say "bye Felecia" to them; Cookie and Porsha can both go take a seat.

Wasn't there first meeting of Anika walking into the room with her bra and panties on to show some kind of ownership over Lucious? Anika was hardly minding her own business. The difference between the two women is that Cookie wears her heart on her sleeves and Anika conceals it. Cookie pops off at the mouth, but that is all; Anika has shown bad decision making skills when it comes to Lucious and Cookie all to prove how smart and cutthroat she can be. 

 

No, they threw her clothes away as a sign of her being kicked out of the house by Lucious. Even if Cookie could fit Anika's clothes, she wouldn't wear them. She has a very distinctive style. So, they were throwing out the clothes to remove her presence from the house, but she could still pick up the clothes if she wanted to. Was it rude and disrespectful? Yes, but that was the point because of severity regarding Anika's actions. Again, compare Cookie's dismissal or insults to Anika compared to Anika's retribution--it's unbalanced.

 

Cookie has her moments (bad), but she also has good moments as well. I think Cookie may have always been tough with no filter, but it's heightened because of prison and other circumstances. She doesn't want to appear to be vulnerable and has to fight for everything she gets. 

 

Yes to it all. Painting Cookie as the hood, angry black woman is reductive and predictable but there are so many more layers to her. Anika too, for that matter. It would be just as easy to dismiss her as a bougie snob but she has layers as well. That's what makes this show so good, IMO.

To add, if men can get angry and loud, why can't women? People are who they are and they are allowed to express emotion. We can certainly argue that Cookie would be exhausting to be around if she was always on 10 (anyone would), but I don't buy into the angry black woman bullshit. It's tired.

ITA. Both characters are layered, but they seemed to be boxed into one note characters for some "odd" reason.

I have to disagree because for me Cookie does act like a stereotypical angry black woman.  Protect her sons from the cougars?  Really?  Like an older woman is going to eat them alive?  I don't think so.  

 

Why is it okay for Cookie to hate Anika because Anika reaped the benefits?  That's not Anika's fault and if Cookie isn't self aware enough to see that, oh well.

How does she act like a stereotypical black woman? Lucious tried to keep her out of Empire before she had to threaten to expose how he got him money, which would make most people justifiably angry. Let's keep in mind, that same money she held fund the record label is also what put her in jail for 17 years. So, she invested 400 K and is released from jail to find the beneficiary wanting her to have nothing to do with the company, she's not allowed to be angry? Lucious treats Jamal like shit for being gay and won't let him succeed on his terms and she can't be angry with how he treats THEIR son and has always treated him? She's not angry for no reasons--her reasons are very justified. With Camilla, she objected to them dating, but what pushed her over the edge was because believes that Camilla is using Hakeem. Also, I think most parents object to their kids dating someone with such a significant age difference. 

 

I think most of us know that's it's irrational. I don't believe that anyone is saying it's okay, we're simply explaining her thought process. Most people don't know that they are being irrational and, if so, they can't help it.

 

I agree, I can't stand either Cookie or her cousin. I'm trying to figure out how is Cookie set up to be the "hero", she's a horrible person, really the only people on this show who one can see as a possible sympathetic character is Jamal due to how his dad has treated him and even he has like his brothers a attitude of entitlement. Annika, before she tried to stoop to Cookies level was a possible sympathetic character as it seemed as though she was just doing her job and happened to get into a relationship with Lucious.

TBH, Anika has stooped BELOW Cookie's level. And I don't see how she's a horrible person either. She's very flawed, of course, but horrible? Besides threatening to go public with how Empire got their start up money, she hasn't done anything to negatively effect Empire like Lucious or Anika has. No the best parent, but loves her kids unconditionally and has admitted to making mistakes regarding them. Advocates for her artists and puts their interests first. Does what it takes to get the job done. 

 

Cookie has a louder bark, but she is disciplined and knows when to bite (for the most part). Anika goes for the jugular as her go to move. She causes damage when she could've considered other, better moves. To change metaphors, Anika doesn't know when to play her hand. Changing again: she wins battles NOT wars. You get my point. Anika doesn't think long term, she lives in the now.

[MsDiva2007]

I can see I am going to need to pull out the ear plugs because JHud likes to"screech'' loudly without any real feeling than look at me I am loud and good. UGH may have to mute her scenes .

[rozen]

I was super grateful that Lucious handed the paperwork off to Rhonda. I was afraid he was going to have Andre committed to deepest dungeon possible and have him drugged into stupefaction for the rest of his life. I am terrified for Andre after he mouthed off about Bunky. I was so sad for him, so frustrated for him. I wonder if anyone will even hear what he was saying? That was some Emmy-level work, but it'll probably be ignored. Still mad at Tatiana Maslawny being snubbed, and Alfie Allen for the 2nd season of GoT.

 

I do not know how Derek Luke and the extras kept a straight face while Taraji went to town. I cannot with her sticking her boots out the car door, screaming "take these cookies!" I wish she had been sober enough to write thot on that punkass Beretti lackey's forehead. 

 

I had no issue with Cookie and Porsha going HAM on Anika's belongings. That is some Godfather-level betrayal shit, she's lucky she didn't get shot and buried in the gardens or something. I lost respect for her because she leapt without thinking and now Beretti is simply using her as a tool to get at Lucious. And what does she get/accomplish? Nothing that I can tell. I will be very disappointed if her new job ends up being a pure lateral move.

 

I think this episode actually showed all 3 sons have qualities to make a good business owner. Andre's mind is amazing, cutting deals, circumventing laws, and bailing himself out of his manic purchase while still in a manic episode. Jamal is a good people person, as long as he respects who he's interacting with. And Hakeem is a conniving little shit. Which actually may be the best quality to have. He just needs to get away from pop pop who wants to keep him in training wheels until the day he dies. 

 

Porsha the enforcer cracked me up this entire episode. Tossing the clothes, stealing the phone, blocking Anika outside the restaurant. And she seemed to be doing her actual job in between. Ok then, go ahead now. I knew she was would take the money and then tell Cookie about Anika's offer.

Edited March 6, 2015 by rozen

[Racj82]

I want Take These Cookies on a t shirt asap.

This was my least fav episode. It was entirely too much going on and again the way that the are handling bi polar disorder is really offensive.

You see it as offensive but a lot of people have talked about how close it hits home. I've heard and read people say the rapid spending, not being yourself or being able to do your job while on your meds, not being able to control your emotions off of them all hit close to home. Not every person who is bipolar acts the same way but this is a genuine depiction of how ones bipolar disorder might be.

[Syndicate]

I watched this episode, after losing interest in the show a few episodes ago, because my sister raved about the brothers' scenes, Andre's in particular.  I agree with the praise of Trai Byers.  I'm not impressed by the writing, but the real genius is the casting.  Some of the actors take what I suspect are stock characters on paper, and breathe life into them.        

 

What I did not expect was to be Team Anika, about whom I was previously ambivalent.  I found myself rooting for her and her scorched earth strategy, even knowing she wouldn't succeed.  I loved that she laid low and tried to play her position, then had no fucks to give, planned to take as many artists with her as she could, AND managed to persuade several people in the company to collude with her.  Alas, they were fired, but that takes skill and cunning.  Plus, it undermines the "Empire is a family" stuff.  

 

I previously was meh about the actress, but I thought Grace Healey did a great job with her scenes in this episode, especially after she was outed.  I liked that she didn't try to justify, explain, or beg forgiveness - she just grabbed her coat, made some phone calls before it was taken, and proceeded to make her exit.  When the show started, I hoped that Anika and Cookie, two very different women with very different lives who've both tolerated a lot of BS, would ultimately develop a begrudging respect for each other and, on the extremely unlikely end, team up to form their own company. Her actions were along the lines of what I'd otherwise hoped for Cookie, and it's a shame that there isn't room for both to thrive.  But the show has a different direction in mind.  C'est la vie.      

Yes, the cast is quite stellar and attractive, but the writing has not wowed me.  I'm not impressed that the ONLY thing that I kinda sorta feel that's been done right (though they can do better with that as well) is Andre's bipolar.  Cookie's drunken scenes were terrible, I thought.  Not only because it seemed fake, but also because it was just more of her ghetto hoodrat behavior, which is already kind of getting old for me.  If her drunkenness was meant to be funny, I wasn't laughing.

[LittleGreyCells]

When I read some speculation that the show is loosely based on "A Lion in Winter" it made my history-lovin' head explode with delight! Cookie is Eleanor of Aquitaine! Lucious is Henry II! Boo Boo Kitty is Rosamond Clifford! Jamal is Richard the Lionheart!!

 

I guess that makes Bunky Becket??

 

Sorry.

[phoenics]

Cookie's drunken scenes were terrible, I thought.  Not only because it seemed fake, but also because it was just more of her ghetto hoodrat behavior, which is already kind of getting old for me.  If her drunkenness was meant to be funny, I wasn't laughing.

Really?

I didn't take her drunkenness as "ghetto hood rat behavior" at all - I just took it as her being drunk. Lord knows I've seen countless white females drunk as a skunk on network tv who have acted that way and worse.

That was the one good long laugh I had all episode. Okay I'm lying - Anika's stuttering moment and Cookie's retort made me laugh too.

But - how was Cookie's behavior - "ghetto hoodrat"? I'm seriously asking.

[phoenics]

Yes, the cast is quite stellar and attractive, but the writing has not wowed me.

I will agree with this in part. I think that Danny Strong is not a good "soapy" writer - at times the dialogue is stiff and cliched and sometimes it doesn't make sense. For example - Lucious' repeated "I'll do it" to both Anika and Cookie when they demand he leaves one for the other - just not good. Perhaps another actor other than Terence could pull that off (he's so much better at being snarky than the middle point of a triangle, lol), but still, the dialogue didn't give him much to work with. He needs to hit up Ridge Forrester for some waffling lessons, lol.

I think some of the dialogue sings - but on the whole, it's Cookie's one liners that carry this show... with the exception of Trei's AMAZING performance. I really do hope he wins an Emmy for that. Just amazing. TPH should probably win an Emmy too for the tour de force that is Cookie.

[Grace19]

I hate the drunken scene not for any hoodrat whatever, but because it seemed so fake, i could just see TPH trying way too hard to make that scene funny, it wasn't natural.

[Neurochick]

Last night, I was talking to a friend of mine about this show; I said what I had to say about how nasty I thought Cookie was to Anika and how Cookie values her worth in being "fuckable" which was why she rubbed it in Anika's face that she and Lucious had been intimate.  My friend said something interesting, that Cookie doesn't hate Anika because she's younger, or lighter or any of that, and she's not even jealous of Lucious and Anika's relationship, it's about being replaced and in this society, women are often replaced, it happens often with movie, music and TV stars and even on the local news; men are sexy until they're dead, while women over forty are supposed to disappear.  Cookie's not angry at Anika for being anything, Cookie's pissed that Lucious replaced HER whereas she has been ride or die for Lucious.  

 

Also, I was reminded that Cookie is doing all of this, not for herself but for her children, she wants to make sure that they don't get replaced, which happens many times in real life.  

Edited March 6, 2015 by Neurochick

[phoenics]

Last night, I was talking to a friend of mine about this show; I said what I had to say about how nasty I thought Cookie was to Anika and how Cookie values her worth in being "fuckable" which was why she rubbed it in Anika's face that she and Lucious had been intimate.  My friend said something interesting, that Cookie doesn't hate Anika because she's younger, or lighter or any of that, and she's not even jealous of Lucious and Anika's relationship, it's about being replaced and in this society, women are often replaced, how that happens in the movies, on TV, even in the local news.  Cookie's not angry at Anika for being anything, Cookie's pissed that Lucious replaced HER whereas she has been ride or die for Lucious.  

 

Also, I was reminded that Cookie is doing all of this, not for herself but for her children, she wants to make sure that they don't get replaced, which happens many times in real life.

I would agree with that assessment.

Also - Cookie and Anika first met when Anika came into Lucious' office when Cookie was there. Cookie walked out with her infamous "Hmmm Boo Boo Kitty" comment (that I read as more of begrudging respect for Anika than full on derision - she wouldn't name her if she wasn't competition)... of course that rankled Anika - but she gave as good as she got (even more) with her changing from her red dress into her lingerie when she and Lucious saw on their video cam that Cookie had arrived at the house and then "accidentally" coming upon Cookie and Lucious.

To me - that's just women sparring - it was funny and amusing.

I guess I just don't see the irate hatred coming from Cookie to Anika - Cookie definitely looks at Anika like she benefitted from the life SHE created with that money while Cookie herself was in jail. That's more Lucious' fault than Cookie's - but I can totally see why Cookie just felt replaced by Anika. But Cookie clearly has a begrudging respect for Anika - the only reason she and Lucious hit it was because they were both reeling from the ALS reveal. After that it was simply fun.

I do wish we knew more of the timeline here. Did Anika come along before or after Lucious divorced Cookie?

In the pilot, Cookie is looking at Lucious' things in his office and he comes across the picture of him and Anika and you can tell she felt replaced. Then when she asks for control of A&R (which is basically her wheelhouse when she started that company with Lucious), Lucious tells her that her "replacement" (Anika) is already in charge of that in so many words (he leaves it for Cookie to interpret that he's speaking of Anika when he tells her he can't give her A&R because he "has someone").

I think the "fun and games" aspect to Cookie and Anika shifted when Anika drugged Elle and Cookie slept with Lucious. The sleeping together thing I could see - the drugging thing was just OTT. I actually thought they were going to have Anika do something to sabotage Elle, but I thought she was going to just wind her up and stress her out and then just happen to leave a drink lying there for Elle to do herself in. The drugging was OTT and overly soapy in a way it didn't actually have to be.

I do have to agree that the writing re: Anika has been somewhat heavy handed. That's because, imo, she's a foil. The writers don't really care to give her a PoV or establish her as much beyond a foil/obstacle for Cookie/Lucious. If she really is Asai from Lion in Winter, then maybe she'll be developed beyond where she is now.

As another poster said - I'll actually be irritated if all she makes is a lateral move. Also - I don't really think she was smart in how she handled the Beretti thing... she could have done that so much better... And was she REALLY planning on still marrying Lucious? It would have been SO much smarter to just lay low and marry Lucious - in the divorce she could have easily taken HALF of Empire. I thought that's what she might have been planning, but no...

And there goes my theory that she was secretly drugging Lucious (with the symptoms mimicking ALS) - the whole drugging Elle thing tied in with that, but now that she's out of his house... well... I do wonder though if she could be pregnant.

[Nanrad]

It's funny because I saw that "gloating" scene about being "fuckable" totally different. Cookie was through with Lucious after that, but she was telling Anika that she hasn't won shit. Because Lucious will make promises, but won't keep them. So, while he promised to move the wedding up and leave her (Cookie) alone, he still fucked her when given the chance after said promise, which shows that, although he may care for Anika, he doesn't respect her or their relationship. 

 

Anika didn't sell out Lucious just because he cheated on her, she sold him out because he cheated on her AND the loss of respect her business mind. Some of these episodes has been about Anika proving she's just as savvy, if not more, than Cookie. It was about proving herself to Lucious all while destroying him in the process. And what separates Cookie from the other women he most like cheated with besides being the mother of his kids and former wife, Lucious actually respects her business mind and refuses to leave her alone. She may have given him an ultimatum with the other women, but he seems not to care for it regarding Cookie.

[Rae Spellman]

 

It would have been SO much smarter to just lay low and marry Lucious - in the divorce she could have easily taken HALF of Empire. I thought that's what she might have been planning, but no...

 

Community property covers assets/income acquired during the marriage, right? Anika shouldn't get half of what Lucious started acquiring a decade or two before he met/hired/married Anika if they divorced after a couple of months/years.

 

Depending on how Lucious chooses to write his will, even if Anika married Lucious soon and he died of ALS within the three year timeline mentioned in the pilot, she might not get half of his estate as a widow.

 

Now Lucious mentioned the marriage making Anika a billionaire, so presumably she could have done well by marrying Lucious even if she wouldn't have been able to get half.  

[megsara]

How did I not know there were only 11 episodes?  I am crushed there are only 2 eps left.

 

This was such an entertaining episode.  Most of the high points have been mentioned, but I weirdly adored Cookie basically vomiting in her mouth after taking that last shot, almost doing it again, then burping.  Oh, I've been there. 

 

I would adore flashbacks to Cookie's time in prison.  I feel like the essence of Cookie has always been there, but her time inside has only reinforced her need to always speak her truth (whether that lines up with actual reality or not aside), because she can't waste time with any BS. 

[BigBlueMastiff]

 

I can't with Cookie. I think she is biased. She hated Anika from the day she met her, for no reason. I think Cookie didn't like Anika because of her color. So I can't totally like Cookie.

I'd be kind of pissed at the beyotch who got my man while I was sitting in prison, not mad at Cookie.

[Syndicate]

Really?

I didn't take her drunkenness as "ghetto hood rat behavior" at all - I just took it as her being drunk. Lord knows I've seen countless white females drunk as a skunk on network tv who have acted that way and worse.

That was the one good long laugh I had all episode. Okay I'm lying - Anika's stuttering moment and Cookie's retort made me laugh too.

But - how was Cookie's behavior - "ghetto hoodrat"? I'm seriously asking.

Oh come now!  Everything about her so far has been ghetto hoodrat.  Elaboration not needed!

[phoenics]

Community property covers assets/income acquired during the marriage, right? Anika shouldn't get half of what Lucious started acquiring a decade or two before he met/hired/married Anika if they divorced after a couple of months/years.

 

Depending on how Lucious chooses to write his will, even if Anika married Lucious soon and he died of ALS within the three year timeline mentioned in the pilot, she might not get half of his estate as a widow.

 

Now Lucious mentioned the marriage making Anika a billionaire, so presumably she could have done well by marrying Lucious even if she wouldn't have been able to get half.

I see what you're saying, but in the episode with Anika's parents, Lucious said that Anika would be a billionaire in her own right (if he died - I think that's what he said)... so I'm assuming she would have gotten part of that money.

I'm rewatching that part of the episode right now so I will see if that is what he said.

Okay - watched.... that's what he said.

Edited March 6, 2015 by phoenics

[phoenics]

Oh come now!  Everything about her so far has been ghetto hoodrat.  Elaboration not needed!

I was speaking specifically about her drunkenness - what about that said "ghetto (I HATE THAT WORD - it's such an ugly slur) hood rat?" and not just drunk woman?

I didn't see much difference between that and Elle being high honestly. But no one was calling her a hood rat.

It's kinda like the term "ghetto". It didn't even originate with black folk, yet somehow it has come to be all about black folks from the hood. It's a slur that needs to die.

[Syndicate]

Does anybody go to Youtube to watch a show called AfterBuzz TV?  They're an interesting and often astute bunch who review episodes of various TV shows.  Empire is one of their shows reviewed.  At the end of each show, they make predictions about the characters, plots, etc.  One of them predicted that Andre will die by seasons end.  I hope not!  It's bad enough that we haven't gotten nearly enough exposition and storytelling out of this entire show, but to have Andre killed off without knowing much more about himself and Rhonda just seems like an added waste.

[Guest]

I didn't understand why the successful recording artist hanging out at Ghetto Ass Studios (heh) was drinking Sterno-colored hooch.  I mean, the bullet-ridden studio has some charm but do people really choose bathtub gin when Courvoisier is in the budget?  

[phoenics]

Does anybody go to Youtube to watch a show called AfterBuzz TV?  They're an interesting and often astute bunch who review episodes of various TV shows.  Empire is one of their shows reviewed.  At the end of each show, they make predictions about the characters, plots, etc.  One of them predicted that Andre will die by seasons end.  I hope not!  It's bad enough that we haven't gotten nearly enough exposition and storytelling out of this entire show, but to have Andre killed off without knowing much more about himself and Rhonda just seems like an added waste.

WHAT?!?! Noooooo!!! No that cannot happen. Can. not. happen.

I like the AfterBuzz TV folks - but they are way off on that one. Way off.

Besides - a lot of their Flash predictions are off too - I wouldn't put much stock into what they say. Love them, but no.

[Syndicate]

WHAT?!?! Noooooo!!! No that cannot happen. Can. not. happen.

I like the AfterBuzz TV folks - but they are way off on that one. Way off.

Besides - a lot of their Flash predictions are off too - I wouldn't put much stock into what they say. Love them, but no.

We'll see.  The lead reviewer often leaves me with the impression that he has inside information.  He pointed out that SOMEONE needs to die.  He seemed to imply a toss up between Andre and Vernon, but he felt that Vernon would be a much more effective player going forward, so he chose Andre.

[aprilbabe]

We'll see.  The lead reviewer often leaves me with the impression that he has inside information.  He pointed out that SOMEONE needs to die.  He seemed to imply a toss up between Andre and Vernon, but he felt that Vernon would be a much more effective player going forward, so he chose Andre.

Well according to the EW article someone DOES die by candlestick to the head (what is this Clue?) no idea who though

 My guess is either Anika or Vernon. Vernon IMO can be easily removed ( I forget he's there until he shows up) and if Anika is not with Lucious and no longer at Empire she's easy to remove as well. She no longer a foe to Cookie, she's no longer with Lucious and she no longer has the job that Cookie wants (which I assume Cookie will now get) She doesn't have much of a place.

[phoenics]

Well according to the EW article someone DOES die by candlestick to the head (what is this Clue?) no idea who though

 My guess is either Anika or Vernon. Vernon IMO can be easily removed ( I forget he's there until he shows up) and if Anika is not with Lucious and no longer at Empire she's easy to remove as well. She no longer a foe to Cookie, she's no longer with Lucious and she no longer has the job that Cookie wants (which I assume Cookie will now get) She doesn't have much of a place.

It could be Beretti, someone snooping about Lucious killing Bunky, someone snooping about Cookie's hit on rosebud, Anika, Vernon, Olivia, Olivia's boyfriend, Camilla - there are SO many who could die - I just don't see them killing off a major character yet. There's no need to.

[Syndicate]

Well according to the EW article someone DOES die by candlestick to the head (what is this Clue?) no idea who though

My guess is either Anika or Vernon. Vernon IMO can be easily removed ( I forget he's there until he shows up) and if Anika is not with Lucious and no longer at Empire she's easy to remove as well. She no longer a foe to Cookie, she's no longer with Lucious and she no longer has the job that Cookie wants (which I assume Cookie will now get) She doesn't have much of a place.

[Happytobehere]

Does anybody go to Youtube to watch a show called AfterBuzz TV?  They're an interesting and often astute bunch who review episodes of various TV shows.  Empire is one of their shows reviewed.  At the end of each show, they make predictions about the characters, plots, etc.  One of them predicted that Andre will die by seasons end.  I hope not!  It's bad enough that we haven't gotten nearly enough exposition and storytelling out of this entire show, but to have Andre killed off without knowing much more about himself and Rhonda just seems like an added waste.

That was Bamm Ericson who made the prediction. His last character death took several years to come to pass -- Harrison on Scandal, so maybe that will be the case here as well.

I do however agree that someone will die or an attempted murder will take place, if not at Season end then as a kickoff for Season 2.

[ridethemaverick]

I was speaking specifically about her drunkenness - what about that said "ghetto (I HATE THAT WORD - it's such an ugly slur) hood rat?" and not just drunk woman?

I didn't see much difference between that and Elle being high honestly. But no one was calling her a hood rat.

It's kinda like the term "ghetto". It didn't even originate with black folk, yet somehow it has come to be all about black folks from the hood. It's a slur that needs to die.

I agree. The slurs flying freely in this thread are making me extremely uncomfortable. I think I even saw the n word a few pages back. :(

[Luciano]

I didn't understand why the successful recording artist hanging out at Ghetto Ass Studios (heh) was drinking Sterno-colored hooch. I mean, the bullet-ridden studio has some charm but do people really choose bathtub gin when Courvoisier is in the budget?

If it was sizzurp (and it seemed like it was), it's the same thing that sent Lil Wayne to the hospital; other artists like Rick Ross and Three 6 Mafia have rapped about it. It's popular. It's not hooch/alcohol, it's prescription cough syrup mixed with soda and optional candy. It will cause a room full of guys to pass the hell out.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Luciano

[Syndicate]

I agree. The slurs flying freely in this thread are making me extremely uncomfortable. I think I even saw the n word a few pages back. :(

This is nothing.  Apparently, Terrence Howard (Lucious) WANTS the N word to be mentioned ON THE SHOW!  Go figure!

[ridethemaverick]

This is nothing. Apparently, Terrence Howard (Lucious) WANTS the N word to be mentioned ON THE SHOW! Go figure!

I disagree that it's nothing.

I heard about Terrence saying that but thankfully, it will never happen. And it has nothing to do with what's happening in this thread.

[Guest]

If it was sizzurp (and it seemed like it was), it's the same thing that sent Lil Wayne to the hospital; other artists like Rick Ross and Three 6 Mafia have rapped about it. It's popular. It's not hooch/alcohol, it's prescription cough syrup mixed with soda and optional candy. It will cause a room full of guys to pass the hell out.

Thank you for clearing that up!  

 

I read something today that mentioned Henson kind of forced them to cast Howard.  I thought that was mildly interesting.  

[phoenics]

Death by c.........k to the h..d? Oh lord! It's almost clear. Andre and Rhonda are in a heated argument. He goes ballistic on her the way he did with Lucious in the previous episode. She picks up a c.........k and whacks him over the h..d, killing him in self-defense. What happens after that, logically in season two, is the aftermath with Rhonda trying to claim all of Andre's assets as his widow. Remember, Lucious despises this "white bitch" that his son married. He'd stop at nothing to prevent her from getting his son's fortune. Ironically, this would be the most dramatic story that this show has done so far. I just hate the idea of losing Andre to do it.

I still refuse to let Andre go - I still don't think it's him. Now I'm wondering about Jennifer Hudson's character and perhaps Rhonda? If they have Andre and Michelle the music therapist hit it, that could drive Rhonda to do something nuts. Or maybe Andre does it. I'm reaching I know - but I don't want it to be Andre. Besides, that would mess up the whole show and the angle about the 3 - THREE - sons fighting over the Empire.

[Syndicate]

I disagree that it's nothing.

I heard about Terrence saying that but thankfully, it will never happen. And it has nothing to do with what's happening in this thread.

Who said it will never happen?

[Grace19]

None of the lyons are dying? This is a show about a family, all the characters are needed. I think it either vernon, Anika, Rhonda or Berllenti

[coloradoqt]

 

 

Oh come now!  Everything about her so far has been ghetto hoodrat.  Elaboration not neede

 

What exactly does Ghetto hoodrat mean? what does Ghetto anything mean? I've never heard that term referring to anything but black people. IMO its the PC word for that other word beginning with N. If you watch any of the realty shows, etc these white chicks get drunk, say and do stupid things, things they can't remember the next day or whenever they sober up,,can't say I've ever heard them referred to as ghetto hood rats. 

 

When an individual is called ghetto," angry black woman" or described as "she has a bad attitude". should react as this person perceives them to be: uncouth,ill-bred,uncivilized, with no boundaries and demonstrate how one can achieve Lisa Rinna's lips   without the aid of plastic surgery.  

[coloradoqt]

 

Now Lucious mentioned the marriage making Anika a billionaire, so presumably she could have done well by marrying Lucious even if she wouldn't have been able to get half.

Raise your hand if you think/thought Lucious is/was gonna marry Anika.? He ask her to marry him, just before he went to her Dad and manipulated him into committing fraud.

All of Lucious focus is keeping Empire in the family,giving Anika half would not be keeping it in the family.

He killed Bunky cause he wanted less than half and he was family. Family who wanted what "Lucious built".

[kikaha]

I'm curious to see when they pick up again on Cookie's (mistaken) Valentine's Day hit. 

[photo fox]

RE: racist terminology in these threads:

I give a certain amount of leeway here as long as the discussion is about the characters because the same terms are used liberally on the show. That could be the wrong approach, though, and I'm happy to have a PM conversation with anyone who feels differently.

The "n" word, however, will never be tolerated here, no matter if TH gets his way about using it on the show. If you see that, report it.

PM me with any questions!

[riverheightsnancy]

I would hate for Andre to die, because I think that there is a lot of character to be explored with him. The elevator scene in specific typifies what I want to know more about. I would really like to know more about what happened to those kids when Cookie was in prison. Lucious (sp?) Is not that loving. Who took care of them? Was he more abusive to Jamal with Cookie gone? Did Andre take over as a substitute parent? Were they left alone a lot? I really want flashbacks so that we could see more of the genesis of Andre's blooming mental health issues as well. Was Hakeem coddled?  When did Lucious become rich? Nosy minds want to know. They have established so many great characters that they could do an entire season on the back stories. 

 

For myself I think most of us have a little "Cookie" inside us and sometimes we wish that we did. It is very freeing to see a women say exactly what she feels (even if it is a TV show). There are times when something needs to be said, but we hold back due to politeness, social convention, and self-presentation. Even though women of color may experience this much more acutely and negatively, I think, as a white woman, we also can be held back from expressing in ways that are viewed as too masculine and aggressive, especially in groups where there are a lot of men or with men who are very alpha-dog types. I actually see Cookie as a bit of an inspiration. You must speak, and act if you want to get anywhere. One needs to be assertive and grab for what is theirs. Is it aggressive? Perhaps. But we never blink an eye is a man does this in business or in life. It is only women who are held to a different standard and women of color held to an even higher standard.  If we don't advocate on our behalf, who will?  Life leaves you in the dust. Cookie is trying to make up for the 17 years that she has been left behind. I can totally relate to that having been in a crap marriage for the last 18. I want to bust out and be like Cookie. Say what needs to be said. Make what I want happen, how I want it to happen.  AND get a young, cute love interest too!

[wanderingstar]

Upon my re-watch, I loved the drunken Cookie scenes even more, although I too am wondering how she sobered up so fast when she got back to Empire HQ.

 

ETA:

 

I do however agree that someone will die or an attempted murder will take place, if not at Season end then as a kickoff for Season 2.

 

If this must be, why can't it be Lucious? He is so ghastly to everyone in his life, it's like he's asking to get clobbered with the nearest blunt object?

Edited March 7, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[bichonblitz]

I'd be kind of pissed at the beyotch who got my man while I was sitting in prison, not mad at Cookie.

Cookie sat in prison for 17 yrs. Lucius turned his back on her from the beginning, so he was not her man. Is she hating on all the other women he slept with, lived with, dated during those 17 yrs?  I can't believe she is the least bit civil to the jerk. 

[CofCinci]

Upon my re-watch, I loved the drunken Cookie scenes even more, although I too am wondering how she sobered up so fast when she got back to Empire HQ.

I howled when the sexy head of security was trying to cram Cookie and her spread up-in-the-air legs into the back of the SUV.

[Syndicate]

I'm curious to see when they pick up again on Cookie's (mistaken) Valentine's Day hit. 

I don't think it's happening.  One of many examples of the poor writing on this show!

[CofCinci]

Cookie sat in prison for 17 yrs. Lucius turned his back on her from the beginning, so he was not her man. Is she hating on all the other women he slept with, lived with, dated during those 17 yrs? I can't believe she is the least bit civil to the jerk.

Cookie is running the long con. She has spent 17 years hating Lucious. Edited March 7, 2015 by CofCinci