Spoilers and Discussion

[indeed]

Maybe we'll get one of those storylines where the two lovers reconnect later in life and it just works since they could never quite make it the first (few) time(s) around. It worked so well for HIMYM's finale...and then we'd get to see Kurt and Blaine in old age makeup. No? That sight/ending wouldn't be worth breaking them up for the season of Blaineofsky? LOL

[Sara2009]

I hate Blaine too, so my liking this story line comes from that more than thinking it's good. It's a trainwreck that I'll laugh at.

[caracas1914]

I like the story line because I hate Klaine with a passion.

Well I hate Blam! With a passion but that doesn't mean I ship Rachel with Sam or even Mercedes. Two car wrecks don't make something right.

ETA: OK, Sara2009 just read your reply! LOL

Truth, it's amazing how these writers make Blaine the biggest fucked up asshole ever by pairing him up with Karofsky. The crazy thing is these writers IMO LIKE the Blaine character.

Edited November 18, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

Well yes, as I noted above, if you hate Blaine, I can see enjoying this because it's just one more thing to add to the list of horrible things the writers have had him do, say, etc. since Season 4. And yes, it is quite scary to imagine that the writers may actually like the character because that means that the complete and utter destruction they've done was completely unintentional. And that's a pretty scary thought. Well as has been noted many times over, it hardly even matters. I look forward to their going away getting less viewers than any CW show. 

[Ann Mack]

Well I have always enjoyed Sam and Mercedes together and I hope that they do get their happy ending. For the life of me I cannot understand other than it was some demented dream of Brad's why they are even going there again with Sam and Rachel. It was a disgusting choice to have her making googly eyes at him 3 episodes after the Finn tribute and 1 episode after she tattooed his name to her rib cage. Now to have her go there again after she specifically stated that he and Mercedes were "soul mates" is again disgusting and very distasteful IMO. And even "oh but it's Glee" doesn't work in this case. It IMO makes Rachel look like a very bad friend to one of the only female friends she  had that she could truly confide in. Man Glee is messing up big time so far in this final season!

[caracas1914]

Forget Rachel, it makes Sam into a more shallow idiot/jerk to then dip into a new soulmate bullshit with Rachel aka girfriend (pick a number). Something revolutionary would be to give Sam a Hemingway " A farewell to Arms" treatment in a SL to avoid any more ridiculous romantic entanglements.

[Sara2009]

I don't like Sam/Rachel, but some people definitely do. They're quite popular over at GleeForum.

[caracas1914]

Well I have always enjoyed Sam and Mercedes together and I hope that they do get their happy ending.

 

What I did like initially about them was that race was not an issue, and the fact that Mercedes as a plus sized (read NORMAL not HW anorexic) woman was attractive to Sam.  That I did think was refreshing.  Of course she had to overlook how dim they made him in Season 5..

[Ann Mack]

I don't like Sam/Rachel, but some people definitely do. They're quite popular over at GleeForum.

 

That's not saying much seeing how most of the young girls over there DON'T like Mercedes. Honestly I think they really can't handle seeing Sam with a black girl so anyone would do as long as he doesn't end up with Mercedes in their eyes. The GleeForum is actually one of the most judgmental, rude, childish, dare I say almost racist sites I've ever had the displeasure of visiting! So NO it does not surprise me at all that they are pro Sam & Rachel even if it makes NO sense whatsoever!

Edited November 18, 2014 by Ann Mack

[bjork]

I don't like Sam/Rachel, but some people definitely do. They're quite popular over at GleeForum.

 

I don't think that site is an accurate representation of the whole fandom, just like here isn't either. Like, if we didn't have a spoiler about Sam being hypnotized by Sue (!) into kissing Rachel, I'd be more inclined to roll with that pairing, but that would require me to have an ounce of trust in their storytelling abilities. I'm way more into Mercedes in Samcedes, but based on all the spoilers we've gotten so far, I want her to stay away from this nonsense as much as possible. I wish Blaine could be spared too, but season 6 is all about what the fans deserve want, so I'll shut up and take my medicine like a good child.

 

 

That's not saying much seeing how most of the young girls over there DON'T like Mercedes. Honestly I think they really can't handle seeing Sam with a black girl so anyone would do as long as he doesn't end up with Mercedes in their eyes. The GleeForum is actually one of the most judgmental, rude, childish, dare I say almost racist sites I've ever had the displeasure of visiting! So NO it does not surprise me at all that they are pro Sam & Rachel even if it makes NO sense whatsoever!

 

I poked around there, isn't there a Mercedes fan group on there?

 

I didn't like the Samcedes plot much in season 5, what with bumbling Sam, Mercedes not shutting down his vaguely racist ramblings, the will-they-won't-they sex it up, then Sam can't be trusted to keep it zipped so it's time to break up. The poor plotting of NY really screwed with the residual goodwill I had from season 3, and at this point I just want Mercedes to continue touring and selling records off-screen so she doesn't get attacked by Sue for some contrived reason. Hey, at least she's not living in Lima!

 

The worst thing about this show is that it's ultimately better to keep your favorite characters off-screen in hopes that they won't get messed up by the narrative.

[caracas1914]

No site or subgroup or fan forum represents an accurate portion of Glee fandom .

What I hoped for Mercedes wasn't specifically that she be paired off with Sam, but that she be shown to have both career aspirations and a facsimile of a personal life.

She's as close to being shown to have both this facets as any woman on Glee not named Rachel, which is still a pretty damning indictment how the show portrays women.

[Sara2009]

I tend to dislike Mercedes more often than not, and it has nothing to do with her race or size. It's her attitude. I'd imagine it's the sane story for most of her detractors.

I don't like Rachel much either these days fwiw.

I think the only main characters who haven't been destroyed are Kurt and Santana, and that's probably because the writers ignore them half the time.

[Ann Mack]

 

I don't think that site is an accurate representation of the whole fandom, just like here isn't either. Like, if we didn't have a spoiler about Sam being hypnotized by Sue (!) into kissing Rachel, I'd be more inclined to roll with that pairing, but that would require me to have an ounce of trust in their storytelling abilities. I'm way more into Mercedes in Samcedes, but based on all the spoilers we've gotten so far, I want her to stay away from this nonsense as much as possible. I wish Blaine could be spared too, but season 6 is all about what the fans deserve want, so I'll shut up and take my medicine like a good child.

 

 

 

I poked around there, isn't there a Mercedes fan group on there?

 

I didn't like the Samcedes plot much in season 5, what with bumbling Sam, Mercedes not shutting down his vaguely racist ramblings, the will-they-won't-they sex it up, then Sam can't be trusted to keep it zipped so it's time to break up. The poor plotting of NY really screwed with the residual goodwill I had from season 3, and at this point I just want Mercedes to continue touring and selling records off-screen so she doesn't get attacked by Sue for some contrived reason. Hey, at least she's not living in Lima!

 

The worst thing about this show is that it's ultimately better to keep your favorite characters off-screen in hopes that they won't get messed up by the narrative.

 

Yes, there is a particular sub-group for Mercedes. But it got so bad in her "own" group that the moderators were contacted because people were posting vile, racist, mean and very derogatory things about her. That is when I left so as of recently I cannot commit but this was back around the time when she joined the rest of the cast in NY last season that folks really lost their minds over there. So true, that one site or another does not represent all those who are fans of the show but it does make me wonder if the show has it trolls out reading from those sites and fan fiction too cause some of season 5 and even now with season 6 seem like the writers are reading some bad fan fiction to get their ideas to close out the show.

[Ann Mack]

I tend to dislike Mercedes more often than not, and it has nothing to do with her race or size. It's her attitude. I'd imagine it's the sane story for most of her detractors.

I don't like Rachel much either these days fwiw.

I think the only main characters who haven't been destroyed are Kurt and Santana, and that's probably because the writers ignore them half the time.

 

What do you not like about her attitude? Personally, I think she is the only one who has continually helped her friends, stayed true to her morals (at least for now), worked on her dream, expressed her frustrations without whining or using people to get her way. I actually think she is one of the few characters who hasn't been completely destroyed by acting OOC. But I respect your opinion and just don't see her as having an attitude problem, I see her as confident, strong, determined, kind,  supportive of her friends, encouraging, loyal and willing to stand up for herself attributes I think young ladies should look up to. Instead seems as though most young girls are more inclined to worship at the altar of Rachel Berry because the show has painted her as someone who will always succeed no matter what obstacles are in her way (and by any means necessary even at the cost of her friends) because she has used most of her friends, and throw tantrums when things does not go her way, and rarely has an encouraging or kind word for anyone if it doesn't benefit her. I just wish the show had written Rachel as a more realistic character and I think that Mercedes is a little more close to reality than Rachel. But I do respect your opinion I just don't agree with it!

[LydiaMoon1]

I think the only main characters who haven't been destroyed are Kurt and Santana, and that's probably because the writers ignore them half the time.

Kurt and Santana were ignored?  Kurt and Santana????  <snort>  Yeah, okay.

[tom87]

You can't control what and why people prefer one character over another.  I think Mercedes is a nice, talented person and will probably go far in life but  as a character that isn't that interesting in what is suppose to be a comedy Imo.  

 

Mercedes as a mostly supporting character has the unenviable job of being the straight man.  That just doesn't get the attention it may deserve sometimes.

 

Some people preferred the OTT characters its normal  but it doesn't negate the straight man characters and their work.  

Edited November 18, 2014 by tom87

[Sara2009]

Kurt and Santana were ignored? Kurt and Santana???? <snort> Yeah, okay.

As far as individual story lines go, I think they were. Most of the time they were supporting players in a Rachel plot.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Sara2009

[caracas1914]

In NY Kurt and Santana were definitely ignored for large stretches of time. In Santana's case Season 4 she was glaringly missing most of the season.

She did get 10 seconds of a mid game LI, or was it 5 seconds?

Edited November 18, 2014 by caracas1914

[Danielle87]

That's not saying much seeing how most of the young girls over there DON'T like Mercedes. Honestly I think they really can't handle seeing Sam with a black girl so anyone would do as long as he doesn't end up with Mercedes in their eyes. The GleeForum is actually one of the most judgmental, rude, childish, dare I say almost racist sites I've ever had the displeasure of visiting! So NO it does not surprise me at all that they are pro Sam & Rachel even if it makes NO sense whatsoever!

 

For the life of me I don't see why anyone would like Sam and Rachel together (due to the ickiness of him being presented as Finn 2.0) or would like Sam with anyone for that matter, cause it's Sam. I nearly got my head bitten off for posting that opinion there though.

 

I tend to think Sam/Rachel supporters are just Rachel fans that don't want to see her end the show alone with no love interest or with a random. Truth be told, the only couples in my humble opinion that hasn't been ruined is Will and Emma and Burt and Carol. I liked Klaine and Brittana back in the day, and obviously those suck now, and the other pairings I liked (Puck and Rachel and Jesse and Rachel) were never taken seriously.

 

I'm not a Mercedes fan, but I think she's always been downright sweet compared to most of the other characters on the show who aren't named Mike.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Danielle87

[Sara2009]

I never shipped Jesse/Rachel, but dang they were fun together. I wouldn't mind them agreeing to date in the series finale or something like that.

[tom87]

For the life of me I don't see why anyone would like Sam and Rachel together (due to the ickiness of him being presented as Finn 2.0) or would like Sam with anyone for that matter, cause it's Sam. I nearly got my head bitten off for posting that opinion there though.

 

I tend to think Sam/Rachel supporters are just Rachel fans that don't want to see her end the show alone with no love interest or with a random. Truth be told, the only couples in my humble opinion that hasn't been ruined is Will and Emma and Burt and Carol. I liked Klaine and Brittana back in the day, and obviously those suck now, and the other pairings I liked (Puck and Rachel and Jesse and Rachel) were never taken seriously.

 

I'm not a Mercedes fan, but I think she's always been downright sweet compared to most of the other characters on the show who aren't named Mike.

I have not seen many true blue Rachel fans wanting Sam. They want to know she is open to love again but with maybe someone new or even hints of dating. Many Finchel fans don't want her with anyone.  I say it is Sam fans who know if paired with Rachel he will get screen time and songs.

 

 

I'd take Jessie and Rachel again in a minute.   

Edited November 19, 2014 by tom87

[Cranberry]

You are allowed to discuss other sites and fans, but let's refrain from insulting them too much. We don't want a flame war!

[Higgs]

I never shipped Jesse/Rachel, but dang they were fun together.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tIlT0u2zB0s

[tom87]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tIlT0u2zB0s

More fun than most the stuff they did air.

Edited November 19, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

I have not seen many true blue Rachel fans wanting Sam. They want to know she is open to love again but with maybe someone new or even hints of dating. Many Finchel fans don't want her with anyone.  I say it is Sam fans who know if paired with Rachel he will get screen time and songs.

 

 

I'd take Jessie and Rachel again in a minute.   

Yeah, it's about wanting to see Sam anointed as the leading man by pairing him with the leading lady, due to some legendary "chemistry" with Lea and none with Amber, and how Amber hogs all the solos and singing for Samcedes (as if Rachel won't). And RIB may well oblige, what else is there for Sam to do.

[caracas1914]

Ah yes, the legendary Samchel "chemistry" that in two brief scenes in five years on the show puts to shame Sam's pairing with all the other 5 or 6 pair the spare girlfriends he's had .

The desperate odor of trying to keep Sam relevant as a lead feeds this frenzy.

Personally I thoughts the epic face eating kiss with Tina which sent Blaine into a homoerotic frenzy of bad acting jealousy was the most legendary chemistry he experienced but whatever.

[camussie]

The men aren't fairing much better. Mike and Artie perhaps but other than that the actual lead men are stuck in lima.

[Hana Chan]

I can only imagine how much better Glee would have been had the show runners had the good sense to let the actors who proved themselves capable of shouldering lead roles (Lea, Chris, Naya, Kevin, Matt and Cory had he lived) were allowed to carry the show rather than this constant (and increasingly desperate) attempt to make leads out of Darren and Chord. The more they tried to push the two of them, the more it became clear that they just weren't up to the task and the show suffered as a result.

[jaytee1812]

Much as I agree Darren and Chord are not lead actors, I don't think Lea, Naya or Kevin are either. I think by a country mile Dianna Agron was the best actress on this show and I think the show has shown Lea's weakness as an actress. 

 

The show should've centred around Mr Schu to keep going and had better characters for other teachers, apart from Bieste they never really did that. I have to say though I never like Sue, I've never found bullies funny and there's nothing else to her. 

[truthaboutluv]

I don't and have never bought that the show's failings was because of the actors. I don't care how lauded some believe their favorite is. In my opinion, the show's failings will ALWAYS be the fault of the writing. As I've noted plenty of times, I don't think the show focusing on Rachel, Kurt and company in NY more than McKinley would have stopped the ratings bleed because good as some believe Lea and Chris are, they alone weren't what made the show a success. It was the collective chemistry of the entire cast. So Kurt and Rachel on their own was no more interesting than the other storylines. 

 

But more importantly, the fact is you can see strains of the writing going back to Season 2, long before there was any split narrative, and newbies and more focus on Blaine and Sam or whoever else. I personally don't buy for one second, that Glee wouldn't still be the utter shit it is now whether they had given all focus to Kurt or Santana or whoever else. Because while I don't consider either Chord or Darren any great thespian (and frankly other than maybe Jane Lynch and Matthew Morrison I don't consider any of the cast amazing talents) or even amazing leads, at the same time I think it's relevant to consider what exactly they were given to lead. 

 

Sam, Blaine and Tina as "older members of New Directions" all got weird ass personality changes that made no sense and the new members of ND were all boring, uninteresting characters. And that's not a dig on the actors but again, the writing. The writing was horrible all around - characters were doing shitty things, characters were boring, the pairings or relationships or whatever sucked, the storylines were tired and uninteresting and going nowhere, it was just all bad. And I am sorry it is delusional to think that it would have been any different with any character. Like I've always said, I was just as bored with Rachel and Kurt in NY with Brody the naked prostitute, Cassandra the cliche mean alcoholic teacher, Adam the 30 plus year looking college kid, etc. And Kurt and Rachel honestly, were bland as hell in those early episodes. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[jaytee1812]

I think the cast is pretty much awesome, and frankly all of the problem with this show lie in the writers some. I just don't think those I mentioned are lead actors, maybe Naya with a better script. 

[Sara2009]

I think Jayma is the best actress.

[caracas1914]

It was a combination of things, but switching the leads was like greasing the wheels of a wagon already going downhill and giving it an extra shove.

Keeping the original glee cast intact which would have kept the original chemistry is preferable to the mess of further shitty writing AND destroying that chemistry.

Who the fuck does that.

[RealityCowgirl]

.

The show should've centred around Mr Schu to keep going and had better characters for other teachers, apart from Bieste they never really did that. I have to say though I never like Sue, I've never found bullies funny and there's nothing else to her.

I've long felt that that was key to any attempt at longevity (and their stated goal of celebrating the arts in education). Whether or not they succeeded (fans of the individual "student" actors and/or the chemistry between them may or may not have stuck around), they seemed doomed long term without stronger, more likeable "adult/faculty" characters to provide continuity in their supposed "star" McKinley location.

For me, the only one in that current pool who is not a dope or a cartoon is Coach Bieste; and they seem determined to ruin her with a random, bizarre, out of character storyline that they'll inevitably blow. Because they suck.

Edited November 19, 2014 by RealityCowgirl

[truthaboutluv]

This is also why you knew Ryan Murphy was full of shit (quel surpris) with his whole "the choir was always the main character" crap when he tried to defend that bullshit decision to graduate most of the characters because if that really was the case from the beginning as he claimed, Will's character would not have been so minimized after the first season. And there would have been an attempt to have more of rotating cast of characters rather than the show largely being focused on Rachel, Finn and later on Kurt with a side helping every episode or so, of the other characters. 

 

Like I said back then when he said that nonsense, that line works with Degrassi because Degrassi has always been an ever revolving door of characters and more specifically characters with different ages and in different grades so people could always graduate, leave, move on, etc. and the viewers were still invested. That was not the story Ryan and company were telling though - that is until, he got bored and decided to prove to everyone how they could strike the same magic with a mostly new set of characters in the choir room. Except not so much. And then it didn't help that by the time that stupid plan came around, they were already long scraping the bottom of the creative well for interesting storylines to tell with any of these characters. So there was really only one way to go after all that and that was down. 

[Sara2009]

Naya tweeted this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NayaRivera/status/535111784752238592?p=v

I wonder if Brittana will be the only wedding this season. It wouldn't surprise me if Klaine got a last minute reunion.

[jaytee1812]

God, what did Naya do to the show runners to piss them off so much. Santana's 21 and married to the biggest loser in Lima, she's practically a babysitter rather than a wife. 

[Sara2009]

Naya has always been a big Brittana supporter.

[jaytee1812]

Why? It one of the most unhealthy relationships on the show. And on this show that's saying something.

[SNeaker]

Much as I agree Darren and Chord are not lead actors, I don't think Lea, Naya or Kevin are either. I think by a country mile Dianna Agron was the best actress on this show and I think the show has shown Lea's weakness as an actress. 

 

Well, Dianna's pretty, and the camera loves her, but her acting to me is flat, monotone, and expressionless and I always considered her one of the weakest contributors to the show, not actually being excellent at anything and being about mediocre at dancing and acting and awful at singing. Lea and Naya, however, are the real deal. They know how to bring nuance to their roles and can seamlessly pull of both comedy and drama. They've both cracked me up and made me cry.

[camussie]

Taking my reply about acting to the all episodes thread

[Ann Mack]

Truly not understanding how most of the cast are saying they have been sworn to some sort of secrecy about S6 and yet Naya is tweeting and posting away about Santana and Brittany. Still annoyed at the lack of any information on Artie and Mercedes. I know not too much has been released on too many others but at least a few tidbits have been dropped about Rachel, Kurt, Blaine, Sue, Mr. Shue, Sam and even Karofsky and Becky the last 2 not even being regulars yet I know more about what they will be doing than the 2 (Artie, Mercedes) of the cast who are regulars for the season, hmmm?

[Sara2009]

Wasn't it only Joaquin who mentioned being sworn to secrecy?

[jaytee1812]

I'm sure Mercedes has no storyline, I think she's only there so the show didn't take any flack for having an all-White regular cast.

[Sara2009]

They're filming a Blaine/Rachel/Will/Emma scene on location right now. That's an interesting combo.

[camussie]

My guess is it is some sort of Glee club leaders meeting.  

[Ann Mack]

Sometimes sarcasm may hit very close to home.

[Anna Yolei]

The worst thing about this show is that it's ultimately better to keep your favorite characters off-screen in hopes that they won't get messed up by the narrative.

So much, this. I'm glad Quinn's screen time post-grad has been kept to a minimum. Even with the whole two minutes she's appeared since season four, TIIC had her screwing a married professor, then picking an elitist snob because status. But on the other hand, we got Quintana, so I won't bitch too much.

[CoyoteBlue]

I'm sure Mercedes has no storyline, I think she's only there so the show didn't take any flack for having an all-White regular cast.

Santana and Blaine are POCs and look to have a big chunk of S6. 

[jaytee1812]

Santana and Blaine are POCs and look to have a big chunk of S6.

Naya is not a regular this season, and while Darren Criss is a POC, Blaine is not.