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Glory

By Glory
in Glee [V]

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shantown
shantown

If Jesse St. James shows up at the very end to whisk Rachel away I will forgive the majority of this awful season.

ComfySweater
ComfySweater

Date Sam. It's what everybody else does when they aren't with their soul mate.

Cranberry
Cranberry

You guys argue about the weirdest things.

Glorfindel

Glorfindel

That's a really horrible idea. The song is someone bitter about romance, I hate the idea of Rachel singing that. As for Sam, Chord really doesn't have the voice for it.

Because of the quite upbeat and cheerful melody this song also often gets interpreted as a playful, tongue in cheek, promise of the singer to never fall in love again, whilst knowing very well they'll fall in love again in a heartbeat as soon as the occasion arises.

If Sam and Rachel will sing it as a duet, during a scene in which they e.g. circle round and look at one another, I bet that 'I'll Never Fall In Love Again' is a musical foreplay for Samchel, ugh.

 

And I also wonder if Chord is capable of doing a Bacharach song justice, even one of the easier ones like 'I'll Never Fall in Love Again'.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

Well apparently it's a number where at the least Kevin is in a white tux, Heather is also dressed in white, Darren and Chord are dressed as Angels, and at least 2 extras also dressed in white. So it's anybody's guess who is the lead vocalist or even if more actors are involved.

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tom87

tom87

(edited)

Seems they are filming the transgender choir today.  The amount of transgender people on set has been said to be anywhere from 80 and 200. What?


Because of the quite upbeat and cheerful melody this song also often gets interpreted as a playful, tongue in cheek, promise of the singer to never fall in love again, whilst knowing very well they'll fall in love again in a heartbeat as soon as the occasion arises.

If Sam and Rachel will sing it as a duet, during a scene in which they e.g. circle round and look at one another, I bet that 'I'll Never Fall In Love Again' is a musical foreplay for Samchel, ugh.

 

And I also wonder if Chord is capable of doing a Bacharach song justice, even one of the easier ones like 'I'll Never Fall in Love Again'.

With glee they have interpreted songs totally differently they are meant see Poker Face.

 

I do not see how Sam and Rachel benefit any character.  Sam doesn't need to be involved with another glee girl and he and Mercedes are just fine.  Rachel doesn't need  another small town boy.   Even as a rebound or transitional relationship it makes no sense.   

Edited by tom87
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Seems they are filming the transgender choir today.  The amount of transgender people on set has been said to be anywhere from 80 and 200. What?

With glee they have interpreted songs totally differently they are meant see Poker Face.

 

I do not see how Sam and Rachel benefit any character.  Sam doesn't need to be involved with another glee girl and he and Mercedes are just fine.  Rachel doesn't need  another small town boy.   Even as a rebound or transitional relationship it makes no sense.   

 

I too don't know why these 2 are singing it but as I stated above I truly hope Sam is singing about Mercedes in the format of after her he doesn't think he'll ever find someone as good as her to love again and same with Rachel in regards to not being able to see loving anyone as much as she loved Finn.

 

I swear some fans have been asking for a duet for Sam and Mercedes since season 3 and yet with the confines of 2 closely filmed episodes they will already have sung 2. I don't know who's disgusting idea it was to even go there again with them because I find nothing romantic about Rachel chasing in behind the man of her friend who she encouraged to let go of while she was touring.

 

I also don't understand why Sam and Mercedes are like the back burner couple. Information on Santana and Brittany as well as Kurt and Blaine has been released but when you ask for information on them you get silence. I truly don't won't to see them together because damn I just don't! Why make Rachel happy at the expense of giving Mercedes misery and pain. I swear sometimes I just want to choke some common sense into those damn writers, ugh! I think Santana said it best "my breasts ache with rage" and that's an understatement! 

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

Would Glee have any continuity and have Rachel content doing community theatre ala " Vagina Monolgues" which was hers and Kurt's great fear back in Season 3! Somehow now in the clusterfuck of Season 6 it would be ironically fitting.

Sam is a character that was never built to be a lead , so as a lumpless prop BF to Ambitious Rachel it's just another variation of Ryan Murphy's trying to justify having him on screen for considerable amounts of time. He's not a terrible character but just weightless and irrelevant.

The show has never even bothered to give him a journey.

I expect five minutes of screentime to show everyone's post high school careers at the end of episode 13, after umpteen ND, Warbers and VA performances nobody gives a rats ass about it.

Edited by caracas1914
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tom87

tom87

(edited)

I too don't know why these 2 are singing it but as I stated above I truly hope Sam is singing about Mercedes in the format of after her he doesn't think he'll ever find someone as good as her to love again and same with Rachel in regards to not being able to see loving anyone as much as she loved Finn.

 

I swear some fans have been asking for a duet for Sam and Mercedes since season 3 and yet with the confines of 2 closely filmed episodes they will already have sung 2. I don't know who's disgusting idea it was to even go there again with them because I find nothing romantic about Rachel chasing in behind the man of her friend who she encouraged to let go of while she was touring.

 

I also don't understand why Sam and Mercedes are like the back burner couple. Information on Santana and Brittany as well as Kurt and Blaine has been released but when you ask for information on them you get silence. I truly don't won't to see them together because damn I just don't! Why make Rachel happy at the expense of giving Mercedes misery and pain. I swear sometimes I just want to choke some common sense into those damn writers, ugh! I think Santana said it best "my breasts ache with rage" and that's an understatement! 

 

I do not mind one Sam/Rachel duet becasue there hasn't been one but two within 2 episodes is not necessary. Rather have Rachel sing with Mr Shue again.  I think  both Mercedes and Rachel can do better than Sam anyway.   

 

I am more worried she  only likes Sam cause he reminds her of Finn or he is a safe choice.    Don't like the Mercedes aspect believe me but not surprising becasue the writers can't seem to pass up a chance to have Rachel do something questionable.    But my real worry is for the first time she  is having feelings for another guy  and it is a joke is pretty bad too.

I expect five minutes of screentime to show everyone's post high school careers at the end of episode 13, after umpteen BD, Warbers and VA performances nobody gives a rats ass about it.

Yep, 12 1/2 episodes of filler and then some unsatisfying closure.

Edited by tom87
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caracas1914

caracas1914

So there's some big transgender (non school) choir with Unique apparently leading them in song in an upcoming episode.

Ryan goes for the big splashy headline grabbing effect so I guess that's par for the course.

As to how as to transgender representation this is going to come across I have no idea.

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shantown

shantown

Wasn't sure if it was okay in the "All Ep Discussion" thread since it's about filming...

 

What does everyone think about them likely finishing filming all the episodes before any air? Good idea? Bad idea? They did the same thing with the front 13 of season 1, but the show now is vastly different than it was then.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

What does everyone think about them likely finishing filming all the episodes before any air? Good idea? Bad idea? They did the same thing with the front 13 of season 1, but the show now is vastly different than it was then.

 

 

It it's OK , since it's FOX's decision I'm taking this to the People in Charge thread.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

MJ confirmed that it's Beiste:

 

 

The problem I have with Beistie "transitioning" is that I have no faith in the writers dealing with the subject in a sensitive manner. 

 

Remember these are the same writers who handled the offensive  Beistie/Cooter domestic violence SL, who had Will humiliatingly  give Beistie her first kiss, and had her have a pathetic  crush on Will, non-reciprocated of course.

 

I'm annoyed by  that the notion that a tough, "masculine" seeming woman could still be all woman is debunked.   So the stereotype that all butch looking , "masculine" women are really men gets reinforced.  Beistie broke convention in showing she was a woman without the frilly, uber feminine conventional appearances but that that was OK., ie real women came in all shapes and sizes.  

 

It's sort of like how they had to have Blaine have a crush on Sam, ie reinforce the stereotype that the  gay man  is going to be sexually attracted to his straight male friend .

 

Now this opens up another question:

Until now it seems Beistie has been attracted to men.   She showed attraction to her husband Cooter, to Will himself, and even to Blaine in "I am Unicorn" per her tingly  "girl" parts.  If she is now said to be transgender, does that make her a gay male, ie still attracted to men?    Or are the writers  now saying she is man who is attracted to women, which refuted the first few years of Glee where they clearly show her having heterosexual attraction to the opposite sex.  So will they now say she was repressing her natural attraction to women as someone who feels trapped in a  female body but knows they are a man?

 

Once again, I'm sure Dot will nail it, but I DO NOT TRUST THESE WRITERS.

 

I can't shake the feeling this isn't narrative continuity with Beistie (they already had a trans character in Unique) but  something they pulled out of their asses for showy effect.

Edited by caracas1914
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Is anyone else feeling like Ryan was talking out of his ass when he said the last season would focus on the originals and show how important art is in school. Cause so far we have another engagement, an adult (Sue) slut shaming a male (having lots of male friends doesn't mean you slept with all of them), non-consent hypnotizing leading to manipulated advances, a back stabbing woman (Rachel going after Sam, after she called him Mercedes soul mate and advised her to let him go while she was touring. Why can't this show depict women in a positive supportive way of each other), animal endangerment (bear cub), kidnapping (to some degree with Sue locking Kurt and Blaine on an elevator, some twisted version of a predator (the old guy trolling a date sight for younger men), a sex change, cheating (Will throwing the competition for Rachel), and a federal offense (Sam stealing Will's mail) and the list goes on and they are only up to episode 7.

 

Don't know about you guys but none of this sounds to funny to me or has anything to do with arts in the school, just saying!

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Hana Chan

Hana Chan

I cannot begin to express just how disgusted I am with this storyline, or how disrespectful it is to Dot and the character she's played for several years. Beiste was a wonderful, vulnerable, flawed woman who was deeply hurt by the fact that how she appeared on the outside didn't respect the sweet, very girly woman she was within. To now have her suddenly be transgender throws all of that wonderful character development right into the trash, and for nothing more than shock value and trying to ride on the positive PR train that very brave people like Lauren Cox and Chaz Bono started to further understanding of transgender issues. I cannot imagine how Dot must feel that this is the way her character is exiting the show. And it's not as if the show didn't have ample chance to explore all these issues when Unique was a regular. They had some good moments (like showing her parents being supportive of her, yet terrified of the difficulties she faced in the world), but otherwise wasted her on that idiotic catfishing storyline that went absolutely nowhere. There was no need to destroy Beiste this way.

 

Glee, for all that it has been heralded for being so gay positive has been absolutely awful in how people who don't fit into neat, stereotypical gender norms are treated. How many times have we heard Kurt so blithely called "Lady Hummel" by people who are supposed to be his friends and supporters? Or seen him ignored or discounted in favor of his boyfriend who was more typically masculine (whether it came to being featured in performances or even just being accepted as "one of the guys"). There was that lovely moment when they were doing Rocky Horror when Schu just assumed that Kurt would be happy to play Frankenfurter just because he was gay (and then mocked by Santana about the corset being "last season" when he refused). They even had that awful moment where Sue was willing to put Kurt in a dress for a competition performance (sickeningly the only time he was really offered a lead with ND and it would have required him to humiliate himself). This pathetic storyline is just the latest example of how hypocritical Glee is.

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Glorfindel

Glorfindel

(edited)

Remember when in 'Never Been Kissed' (2x06) Beiste got very upset because noone saw her (sexually) for the woman she was, and then Will kissed her and the male ND members sang her a song? Well, I remember, but I bet the writers forgot, or conveniently will skip over that part of Glee canon.

 

-ETA-

Hana Chan, I completely agree with your post.

To add to it: also remember that it was Beiste who said that Kurt was "too much of a lady" for Tony in WSS?

 

The writers are simply trying to profit from the recent interest and progress in transsexuals/transgender issues, and therefore they just slapped this 'transition' storyline on one of their Glee characters (after neglecting and budging Unique's storyline), but of course they chose the most stereotypical person of all for this: a masculine looking woman.

And in order to get their newest PSA/LGBTQIA storyline the writers will probably destroy every positive development this character (who's actress even got 3 Emmy nominations for it) made in the past, because we all know that Glee will not handle this with care and subtlety.

Edited by Glorfindel
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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

It seems the only sacred cow on Glee who can never question their orientation or sexuality are straight males.

Beistie was a refreshingly non conventionally  feminine woman who still wanted to be appreciated as a woman from how she was written for 4 seasons on the show. Go all the way back to Season 2 " Never been Kissed".

That characterization is out because Ryan Murphy loves his bells and whistles and shock effect, narrative continuity be damned.  Throw in a transgender choir in the episode  and voila, you have your "important" moment for Ryan to get his awards cred back.

Edited by caracas1914
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

So episode 7 is titled "Transitioning" well imagine that. So I take it other stories besides the obvious of Coach Shannon Beiste will be Sam and Rachel "transitioning" into a couple (just gag me now if that really does happen) possibly some sort of "Transitioning" for Mercedes as she faces the fact that she has lost the man she loves and must move on without him, sure they'll throw some Blaine in there "transitioning" back to the guy who realizes he really can't live without Kurt. Probably a whole lot of eye rolling worthiness will happen in this episode. This show really does have knowing how to suck and giving fans what they don't want down to perfection!

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Cranberry

Cranberry

There are no words for how terrible this all sounds.

 

...Actually, there are, but you guys have already said them*, so I'll just throw in an "ITA" here. Every single upcoming plot has everyone acting so out of character that it's astounding, even for Glee. At this point my desire to watch the final season is dipping into the negative numbers.

 

*As a fun aside, this forum is in the top 30 forums for total posts here at PTV -- pretty impressive considering that the show isn't even airing right now!

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Casual Viewing

Casual Viewing

I know better than to read updates to this thread - and yet I still click on it.

Good lord...

It's because Glee is such a train wreck, that we find it hard to look away. Just when we think the writers couldn't possibly ruin it further, they find another way to do so. It's amazing actually. We must have some masochistic tendencies. :-)

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indeed

indeed

Well, one can act and the other can't (IMO), so maybe they were trying to spare us all the extra bad acting we would've been subjected to with focus on that storyline. Sorry, AN, you can sing, but when it comes to acting, the horror the horror...

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I know better than to read updates to this thread - and yet I still click on it.

Good lord...

MTE. I didn't think they could top Blainofsky but I should know better than to under-estimate RIB.

 

Well, one can act and the other can't (IMO), so maybe they were trying to spare us all the extra bad acting we would've been subjected to with focus on that storyline. Sorry, AN, you can sing, but when it comes to acting, the horror the horror...

 

If he were to play it, I imagine it won't require such a flight of the imagination for him, I can't say he'll play himself but it's kinda in the ballpark. And I think he did show signs of improvement. Obliterating a character to do a PSA story for media attention, Emmy bait, what have you, is worse in my book, but i'm sure that's not how RIB see it.

Edited by fakeempress
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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

Oh I'm sure they thought it was a no brainer to use Dot's acting skills versus Alex's but the reality it's not going to be an extended, nuanced arc to begin with.

It's going to be a transitioning SL with cliff notes and can't wait for them making Dot dress like a man because, you see, prior to Season 6, the "punchline" on Glee is that Beistie is not attractive as a woman despite her wanting to be, and being heartbroken when others mocked her for her "masculine" appearance. How others perceived her was the issue, not how she perceived herself.

Solution? Literally make her into a man, confirming the detractor's mocking that she was more like a man than a woman.

Of course the few remaining impressionable teenage girls watching this dreck will marvel how " brave" and " groundbreaking" this SL is, with Ryan's ass being kissed for his "important" message as they sob over this revolutionary narrative.

Yes, there are "masculine " women who feel trapped in a woman's body but Beistie was never portrayed that way.

Fuck these writers.

If they really had balls, they would make one of the conventional looking characters ( Puck, Sam, Blaine, Quinn, Santana, etc) into the transgender character but they are too chicken shit to actually do something revolutionary.

Edited by caracas1914
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Sara2009

Sara2009

I don't think it's fair to characterize everyone who likes this story line as " impressionable teenage girls." Some adults might like it too, and I don't think that necessarily makes them ignorant or stupid. People have different tastes.

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tom87

tom87

(edited)

From what I read the extras there that day had a favorable experience.  Also they had GLADD reps on set so at the very least they are trying (or drumming up PR).
 
I have my reservations but hopefully it comes off ok. Maybe the arc just being 2/3 episodes will actually help lesson the chances to go downhill?

Edited by tom87
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camussie

camussie

Well, one can act and the other can't (IMO), so maybe they were trying to spare us all the extra bad acting we would've been subjected to with focus on that storyline. Sorry, AN, you can sing, but when it comes to acting, the horror the horror...

 

 

Alex is not a good actor.  That said I was pleasantly surprised by her performance in the bullying storyline last year.  I thought she was excellent.  I still maintain that it was a better written story than the Kurt bullying storyline but was of course repetitive because we already had something similar before.  

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Sara2009

Sara2009

It helped that the adults(after needing a bit of time to come to their senses as always) stepped in before things got completely out of hand. The story line was far from perfect, but I thought it righted some wrongs from the first time around.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

I don't think it's fair to characterize everyone who likes this story line as " impressionable teenage girls." Some adults might like it too, and I don't think that necessarily makes them ignorant or stupid. People have different tastes.

 

I  don't think just having a trangender character on a show makes it ground breaking anymore; it's more a matter of how you incorporate a character(s) in a SL .  Glee has done this PSA thing for the last 4/5 years and it's been epic failure  nearly every time because it's all about a stilted message as opposed to having a well written episode.   What makes one think with their track record it will be any different this time?

 

Of course the transgender people loved being an extra on the show, but that doesn't imply that this episode is going to necessarily be the exception to how preachy and self congratulatory Glee and it's showrunners  have the habit of being.

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tom87

tom87

 

 

Of course the transgender people loved being an extra on the show, but that doesn't imply that this episode is going to necessarily be the exception to how preachy and self congratulatory Glee and it's showrunners  have the habit of being.

 

Who implied that that?    I only mentioned that the extras had a positive experience.   I also voice my reservations.  It all smells gimmicky

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Pink ranger

Pink ranger

(edited)

Might have Unques young age been a factor in FOX being hesitant in telling a transitioning story with her? Even if she was 18 and legally an adult. I could see somebody clutching their pearls over how close to high school age she would be.

Edited by Pink ranger
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Anna Yolei

Anna Yolei

That's just it...there are a TON more kids these days coming out as transgender, at earlier and earlier ages. Chances are good that our children will know of at least one trans classmate before they graduate High School. If there's any age group that should be targeted, it's the kids.

And once again, it's another sure-to-be-even-worse rip off of a plot done on "Popular." The issue there was the parents and teachers (Lead by Bobby Glass, the Sue prototype IIRC) wanted the trans teacher canned and the kids put aside their differences to stand up for her. At the end, the teacher was sacked.

But that at least was a character that appeared for one episode. Beiste has struggled with getting others to accept her as a woman, not trying to be seen as a man. This SL shits all over that.

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RealityCowgirl

RealityCowgirl

I have many questions, more than this show is worth at this point. Biggest one of the moment: which of these rumored stories (a) appeal to what the diehards still willing to stay with them want to see as they bring this relationship to an end and (b) could be told even half-credibly in the limited time available to them?

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Anna Yolei

Anna Yolei

What ARE the stories we're supposed to be getting? I need a scorecard to keep track:

-Blaine/Kurt/Kurfosky (sic?)

-Rachel/Sam/Mercedes

-A Brittana wedding

-The whole cast in Lima for various contrived reasons

-Beiste becoming a man

-Tina bashing, because it's the only reason she exists these days. I have expect her to the the Silver from 90210 treatment in the finale

Whoop-dee-fuggin'-doo! Not!

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tom87

tom87

What ARE the stories we're supposed to be getting? I need a scorecard to keep track:

-Blaine/Kurt/Kurfosky (sic?)

-Rachel/Sam/Mercedes

-A Brittana wedding

-The whole cast in Lima for various contrived reasons

-Beiste becoming a man

-Tina bashing, because it's the only reason she exists these days. I have expect her to the the Silver from 90210 treatment in the finale

Whoop-dee-fuggin'-doo! Not!

You may be in luck there is a plot that Quinn and Tina help Becky with a boyfriend.  Maybe Becky bashes Tina. 

 

Yes season 1 auxiliary character Becky has a plot over past regulars Quinn and Tina.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

You may be in luck there is a plot that Quinn and Tina help Becky with a boyfriend.  Maybe Becky bashes Tina. 

 

Yes season 1 auxiliary character Becky has a plot over past regulars Quinn and Tina.

I'm surprised he hasn't had them drop out, given at this point they're the most successful graduates along with Mike.

I'm glad neither has a plot, frankly I find the fact either Tina or Quinn ever set foot in McKinley after graduation hard to believe, especially Tina.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Actually I'd like one scene of Tina lording it over Sam and Blaine in particular that she's at an Ivy League College and they're back working at their old high schools like losers.*

*I may still be bitter over how often they patronised Tina in song, especially that awful 'Loser Like Me' scene in 'New Directions'.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)

I don't know of anyone other than some hardcore delusional shippers who still want Kurt and Blaine together. I have not cared about Kurt and Blaine as a couple since S4 and I really stopped wanting them anywhere near each other after that mess in S5 and I still call major bullshit and hate with the death of fiery suns that Blaine and Karofsky crap. Of course it's probably because unlike many I don't hate Blaine so much as I hate what the writers have done to the character and so I'm more resentful of his once again being completely destroyed with this bullshit romance that makes no sense and no one wanted to see. My point is you can not ship a pairing, not want two characters together and still be able to call bullshit where it exists and Blaine/Karofksy, absolute and utter bullshit. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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