The Winds Of Winter: Book 6 Will Arrive...Someday

[Haleth]

19 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Every time I see this thread has been updated, I think I'll come and find something encouraging.... SIGH!

EVERY.DAMN.TIME!!!

Coming here be like:

[mac123x]

23 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Every time I see this thread has been updated, I think I'll come and find something encouraging.... SIGH!

EVERY.DAMN.TIME!!!

I have a similar reaction, but I've applied a heavy dose of cynicism to it so now I think "that thread has been updated - so what's the latest excuse for why the book isn't published yet?"

[Azi]

I'm so sorry! That's actually the reason why I thought about not even posting it, cause I'm the same as you, but maybe having our hopes dashed again and again will at some point make us immune to false hope.

[GreyBunny]

As the original threadnamer, I think we should change the thread title to a meme of Charlie Brown running at a football and Lucy pulling it away.

Edited August 26, 2017 by GreyBunny

[ulkis]

On 5/15/2017 at 1:09 AM, ElizaD said:

not knowing what Aragorn's tax policies are

Why did he complain about that??

[YaddaYadda]

When I saw there was a new post in this thread, I was hoping that GRRM was being passive-aggressive and decided to post a sample chapter. I've been hoping for this since last night.

I'll take a Mel POV, Jon Con? Anything? Bueller?

[ulkis]

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

When I saw there was a new post in this thread, I was hoping that GRRM was being passive-aggressive and decided to post a sample chapter. I've been hoping for this since last night.

I'll take a Mel POV, Jon Con? Anything? Bueller?

Sorry! :)

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

Why did he complain about that??

Because for GRRM, the socio-economics take prime importance. 

 

He wanted to see what made Aragorn a good king but instead got a handwave that said Aragorn was a good king and that's that.

[ulkis]

Ah, okay, thanks.

Does anyone else think that the one POV only each chapter eventually helped add to GRRM's getting stalled? I feel like when you write that way it makes it that much harder to juggle everything.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe, but at the same time, he keeps expanding his universe and you know, food porn.

[ulkis]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

Maybe, but at the same time, he keeps expanding his universe and you know, food porn.

lol, yeah, definitely, but I think it's part of it. Like if he wants to dip into someone else's POV he has to do it for a whole chapter. I would have been okay with it if he had dropped it.

[benteen]

Yeah, I definitely think expanding his universe without end is the biggest problem.

As far as food porn is concerned, his 1982 book Fevre Dream is loaded with food porn although it's less than 500 pages and a great read.

[Hanahope]

I have to admit, every time Martin posts on Facebook (which gets shared to my feed) about anything, there's always a bunch of comments for George to write the last 2 books and to stop doing other stuff.  Never let up, keep baggering him.

[Constantinople]

The url says it all

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/11/17/happy-19th-birthday-clash-kings/

[Hanahope]

Hey George!  Sue Grafton just died without being able to finish her series.  GET ON IT!!!

[Ailianna]

But Sue Grafton finished 25 of 26 novels.  She was still moving things along when she left us.

[Black Knight]

GRRM posted on LiveJournal today that he's stepping back from blogging for a while because he's overwhelmed with work. His mood is "stressed," so it doesn't really have a positive connotation of "I'm in the zone and getting so much done!" More "I have even more people bearing down on me screaming about deadlines"...as we all know, he's got new projects.

Perhaps coincidentally, seven years ago today is when the release date for DwD was announced.

[Eyes High]

On 3/5/2018 at 8:04 PM, Black Knight said:

GRRM posted on LiveJournal today that he's stepping back from blogging for a while because he's overwhelmed with work.

He should have done that two years ago in January 2016 the minute he posted the Livejournal entry admitting that he missed his TWOW deadline. 

[YaddaYadda]

I wanna say that sometime in January, Strand Bookstore gave a date on their website for book releases and put Winds of Winter down for September 6th of this year. A bit later, they added fingers crossed next to the date. I guess they got called out on it and GRRM said nothing on that.

[Eyes High]

GRRM has just announced the release date for Fire and Blood (November 20th) and has confirmed that TWOW will not be released in 2018. He also said he's "returning once again" to TWOW, which implies (to me, anyway) that he hasn't been working on it.

I expect that GOT's eighth season will air before July--there's no way HBO will allow GOT to miss two Emmy seasons in a row, and I believe the eligibility cutoff is in June--so GRRM will have less than six months in 2019 if he's going to publish TWOW before the show ends.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Eyes High

[nodorothyparker]

So hopefully no one was holding their breath on the whole maybe two books this year talk.

Still don't care anything about yet another side project about the pale inbred people.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm excited about Fire and Blood, but I find it so annoying that there's nothing going on with WoW. This is the book everyone is waiting for. What is the delay? The whole Meereenese knot is a bunch of bs at this point. 

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm excited about Fire and Blood, but I find it so annoying that there's nothing going on with WoW. This is the book everyone is waiting for. What is the delay? The whole Meereenese knot is a bunch of bs at this point. 

It's crazy to think that there may only be one ASOIAF book released over the entire span of the show (eight years by the show's end in 2019), but that seems to be where things are headed.

Fire and Blood is apparently 640 pages long, and it's only Part 1. Seriously?

[bubble sparkly]

Is this another book about the Targs lol? I wonder if the fact that the show will “spoil” the ending means GRRM is never going to have the motivation to finish?

[anamika]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It's crazy to think that there may only be one ASOIAF book released over the entire span of the show.

 

And it's a book that he finished writing before the series premiered. So basically he has not released a new book for the entire span of the series. That's just simply amazing. I can understand procrastination considering I am writing this post instead of grading papers, but I would have to say that GRRM has become the King of Procrastination at this point. He would rather tackle the easier, fun side projects than work on the main series.

And looks like his publishers have no control over him now. I am guessing Fire and Blood is to pacify them and make them some money.

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

 I wonder if the fact that the show will “spoil” the ending means GRRM is never going to have the motivation to finish?

I think that GRRM lost his motivation way back after season 6 began spoiling important plot points.

At this point, I am pretty certain we are not getting the next two books. He has lost sight of the plot, the story has gone beyond his control and he can't get to his desired ending. He would rather be writing fake history books about the Targaryens.

[glowbug]

There is no way we’re getting an ending to this series from the books. I will be shocked if we get TWoW let alone another book or two after that. It’s a shame because I really wanted to see how the books resolved things. 

GRRM should just admit defeat at this point and get a coauthor or ghostwriter. There is no shame in either of these options. Perhaps another person could not only write the story but help him figure out how to get the plot and characters back on course, and provide some much needed trimming of his proverbial garden. 

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, glowbug said:

There is no way we’re getting an ending to this series from the books. I will be shocked if we get TWoW let alone another book or two after that. It’s a shame because I really wanted to see how the books resolved things. 

GRRM should just admit defeat at this point and get a coauthor or ghostwriter. There is no shame in either of these options. Perhaps another person could not only write the story but help him figure out how to get the plot and characters back on course, and provide some much needed trimming of his proverbial garden. 

We'll definitely get TWOW even if he dies today. An unfinished novel will still make tons of money for the estate.

[ElizaD]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I expect that GOT's eighth season will air before July--there's no way HBO will allow GOT to miss two Emmy seasons in a row, and I believe the eligibility cutoff is in June--so GRRM will have less than six months in 2019 if he's going to publish TWOW before the show ends.

This is hilarious, and practically confirms that we won't be getting a book before the GOT series finale. HBO gave GRRM an extra year and he's still failing!

Honestly, I think he lost his motivation after ADWD: it's just become tougher to deny after the show passed the books and "oh, AFFC and ADWD are two or three seasons each" could no longer serve as an excuse. Side projects and Targaryen history are much more fun and less demanding than actually bringing the series to conclusion that would force him to stop rewriting, trim sideplots, focus on the main characters and actually offer answers that would confirm viable fan theories and demolish looney ones.

This does make me think less of GRRM as a writer. He doesn't deserve a legacy as an American Tolkien when he's only offering promises he can't live up to and is now leaving it to D&D to face the wrath of the fans who are so sure that GRRM is a grimdark trope-loathing revolutionary and would never ever do something as cliche as R+L=J or Jon + Dany = Targaryen restoration baby. GRRM is like a mountaineer who made big boasts and quick progress on the way up Everest, but then stopped to take a ton of scenery porn photos before he even reached the climax of getting to the top, much less that of climbing down safely.

[YaddaYadda]

19 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Is this another book about the Targs lol? I wonder if the fact that the show will “spoil” the ending means GRRM is never going to have the motivation to finish?

I don't know if it will spoil the ending, but part two of the book might actually spoil what happened at Summerhall, all those breadcrumbs about the tourney at Harrenhal, the kidnapping claims and so on.

[glowbug]

11 hours ago, WindyNights said:

We'll definitely get TWOW even if he dies today. An unfinished novel will still make tons of money for the estate.

So would finishing off the series with another author but GRRM specifically said he didn’t want any other author to finish the series even if he died. I doubt he would want the unfinished manuscript to be released either and the publisher would probably want to publish the chapters with someone to finish it so it’s a complete book because it sounds like he isn’t anywhere near finished. His wife will probably want to honor his wishes so I can’t see her agreeing to allow the publishers to publish anything he wouldn’t want published. It’s not like his estate is hurting for money. He has made a lot off the show I’m sure, not to mention the merchandise and the books. 

[nikma]

Quote

Understood, Mel… but here’s the thing. You call LOTR “the main story,” but if you had asked Tolkien, he would have said the SIMARILLION was his main story, his life’s work. Yet he was never able to complete it during his lifetime. Not because he did not care, however.

(Tolkien was an Oxford don, and may actually have considered his teaching to be his life’s work, rather than his writing).

Just for the sake of argument, let me point out that many many people invest their time into works without endings. F. Scott Fitzgerald never finished THE LAST TYCOON, Charles Dickens never finished EDWIN DROOD, Mervyn Peake never finished TITUS ALONE, yet those works are still read.

I do intend to finish A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, of course… but doubtless Peake, Dickens, Fitzgerald, and Tolkien would have said the same

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2018/04/25/fire-blood-on-the-way/#comments

 

LOL on so many levels. He is even implying that ASOIAF is not his main story. He is truly lost. Sad end. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by nikma

[anamika]

Yikes. He's as well admitted that he's not going to finish the books.

[Black Knight]

A couple of other comments he made on the thread are that some of his publishers have suggested splitting WoW in two, as has happened before, but that he's resisting the notion. He also attributed the 2+ years since he missed the deadlines for WoW coming out prior to the newest season of the show to some rewriting, and "distractions." (In other words, what a lot of fans have been saying all along about too many other projects.)

He also blames HBO for some of these distractions in another comment, saying that HBO is not going to wait to get spin-off shows going, and he'd prefer that those shows be done with his participation and input.

While he replied to quite a few people, especially today, he steadfastly avoided any question about how many pages of WoW are written and how many more pages of WoW need to be written.

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, nikma said:

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2018/04/25/fire-blood-on-the-way/#comments

 

LOL on so many levels. He is even implying that ASOIAF is not his main story. He is truly lost. Sad end. 

He's actually saying LOTR isn't Tolkien's main story.

[anamika]

GRRM comparing himself to Dickens and Fitzgerald and even Tolkien is hilarious.  Like ASOIAF is the only thing he is currently famous for and if he does not complete it, what's left?

I think he's realized that he can't get to his ending and started preparing for it. Some folks over at Westeros (Werthead) think it's because the 5 year gap messed up his story and he's just been writing filler for that gap. This is what happens if you don't have an outline and stick to that outline. Being a gardener is going to give you a never ending story with new characters and expanding plots.

His poor publishers seem to be trying everything to get him to release something.

[Eyes High]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

A couple of other comments he made on the thread are that some of his publishers have suggested splitting WoW in two, as has happened before, but that he's resisting the notion.

I see that as a very telling indication that TWOW is nowhere near done. 

11 hours ago, anamika said:

Yikes. He's as well admitted that he's not going to finish the books.

Pretty much this. He also had a ready excuse invoking lots of famous authors with unfinished works, so obviously he's been thinking this for some time.

7 hours ago, anamika said:

GRRM comparing himself to Dickens and Fitzgerald and even Tolkien is hilarious.  Like ASOIAF is the only thing he is currently famous for and if he does not complete it, what's left?

It's also ignoring the fact that ASOIAF is his magnum opus. No one gives a shit that Fitzgerald didn't finish The Last Tycoon. (The arrogance of comparing himself to far superior writers like Fitzgerald and Dickens is also beyond the pale, but let's leave that aside for now.)

Quote

I think he's realized that he can't get to his ending and started preparing for it. Some folks over at Westeros (Werthead) think it's because the 5 year gap messed up his story and he's just been writing filler for that gap. This is what happens if you don't have an outline and stick to that outline. Being a gardener is going to give you a never ending story with new characters and expanding plots.

GRRM won't do what D&D did to simplify matters and blow up or kill off a bunch of characters to move things along, and so he's stuck.

Quote

 

His poor publishers seem to be trying everything to get him to release something.

 

Yes, they did the same thing with ADWD, which is why it has this unfinished feeling and why so many of the TWOW chapters are actually leftovers from ADWD.

[anamika]

This just came up in the discussion over at Asoiaf Reddit and it boggles my mind. The series is split into three acts according to GRRM's original idea of the story.

1: WOT5K

2. Dany's invasion of Westeros and dance of dragons 2.0

3. The war with the Others

22 years and 5 books later, GRRM has still not completed act I !! He still has to write act II and III.

Yeah, there is no way we are getting getting anything close to an ending from GRRM.

At this point, I am just glad that HBO was able to do GOT. It may not be the ending, but atleast it's an ending to this tale.

14 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

GRRM won't do what D&D did to simplify matters and blow up or kill off a bunch of characters to move things along, and so he's stuck.

Yeah, I still remember his post before season 6 came out and he talked about the butterfly effect:

Quote

So when you ask me, "will the show spoil the books," all I can do is say, "yes and no," and mumble once again about the butterfly effect. Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so.

Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. Balon Greyjoy, on the flip side, is dead in the books, alive on the show. His brothers Euron Crow's Eye and Victarion have not yet been introduced (will they appear? I ain't saying). Meanwhile Jhiqui, Aggo, Jhogo, Jeyne Poole, Dalla (and her child) and her sister Val, Princess Arianne Martell, Prince Quentyn Martell, Willas Tyrell, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Lord Wyman Manderly, the Shavepate, the Green Grace, Brown Ben Plumm, the Tattered Prince, Pretty Meris, Bloodbeard, Griff and Young Griff, and many more have never been part of the show, yet remain characters in the books. Several are viewpoint characters, and even those who are not may have significant roles in the story to come in THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING.

Like I could not care less about most of the characters mentioned. Mago, Irri, Jhiqui, Jhogo? Who cares! Just get Dany to Westeros and start act II. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

23 minutes ago, anamika said:

This just came up in the discussion over at Asoiaf Reddit and it boggles my mind. The series is split into three acts according to GRRM's original idea of the story.

1: WOT5K

2. Dany's invasion of Westeros and dance of dragons 2.0

3. The war with the Others

22 years and 5 books later, GRRM has still not completed act I !! He still has to write act II and III.

Yes, and from GRRM's comments about TWOW, it's not at all clear that Dany will even make it to Westeros by the end of TWOW.

Quote

 

Like I could not care less about most of the characters mentioned. Mago, Irri, Jhiqui, Jhogo? Who cares! Just get Dany to Westeros and start act II. 

 

I think the only way GRRM could finish the series in two books at this point is if he took every character associated with Dorne, fake Aegon, and the Ironborn, put them in the same building, and blew it up. He'll never do that, of course, so here we are.

What GRRM seems to be ignoring in the list of dead characters who are still alive in the books is that most of those characters were killed off to tie up loose ends and streamline the plot. That would also be true of all those characters killed off after GRRM made this statement in Seasons 6 and 7 (the Tyrells, the Sand Snakes, etc.). The TV characters weren't just killed off for no good reason; they were killed off to expedite things. That D&D aren't precious about killing off tons of characters is probably what allowed them to move the storyline forward.

[ElizaD]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

22 years and 5 books later, GRRM has still not completed act I !! He still has to write act II and III.

I've also seen it pointed out that since AFFC/ADWD were split and the battles of ice and fire that were meant to be the climax were moved to TWOW, we haven't actually gotten a complete ASOIAF book since ASOS in 2000. GRRM has read revised pre-AFFC chapters as TWOW previews, which shows what a mess this story ended up being.

This is the start of GRRM trying to convince the fans that not getting an ending is not a bad thing. I've been a TWOW pessimist for a long time and enjoyed making fun of the delay, but I don't think I've ever before read any quotes as infuriating as the stuff above. Dickens and Fitzgerald wrote genuine classics that will be adapted again and again; Tolkien is the father of the modern fantasy genre. Would anyone care about The Last Tycoon if Fitzgerald hadn't finished The Great Gatsby? But Fitzgerald published Gatsby, Tolkien published LOTR, Dickens published Great Expectations (really, choose your own favorite, because Dickens has a boatload of books that would each be enough on its own to earn him a place in the canon) - and Dickens in particular had a work ethic that makes GRRM's comparison look ridiculous, since he published in parts and received feedback from the readers and still managed to complete his novels.

I've always disliked the term GRRMarillion and never more than now. What an insult to Tolkien, who was actually capable of creating a completed epic storyline out of all his immensely detailed world/myth/language-building that towers over GRRM's random notes about Targaryens.

[anamika]

32 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

I've also seen it pointed out that since AFFC/ADWD were split and the battles of ice and fire that were meant to be the climax were moved to TWOW, we haven't actually gotten a complete ASOIAF book since ASOS in 2000. GRRM has read revised pre-AFFC chapters as TWOW previews, which shows what a mess this story ended up being.

Sansa has not had a proper story in 18 years. It's no wonder that D&D decided way back in season 2 to put her in the North and give her Jeyne/Alys/Jon/Stannis storylines because the books had nothing that they could use for her.

[glowbug]

I love this series but I find it laughable that GRRM is comparing himself to Tolkien, Dickens, and Fitzgerald. It’s one thing for other people to compare him to Tolkien but it shows a certain level of arrogance for him to do so. Will ASOIF stand the test of time? Maybe, but I’m not so sure of that, especially if it goes unfinished. Tolkien is mainly known for LOTR. Had he stopped after one book I’m not sure his works would have been so enduring. Of course, Tolkien had other things going for him such as creating his own language and popularizing many of the tropes (drawing from his extensive knowledge of myths and legends) that GRRM is known for subverting, and the tropes he falls into as well. 

[benteen]

Yeah, he's clearly preparing readers to the increasing likelihood of him not finishing the books. 

Excellent point that GRRM is only known for A Game of Thrones and it will be a failure of his if he never finishes is.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Sansa has not had a proper story in 18 years. It's no wonder that D&D decided way back in season 2 to put her in the North and give her Jeyne/Alys/Jon/Stannis storylines because the books had nothing that they could use for her.

I've had the notion for a while that GRRM actually hates writing Sansa chapters, and the Alayne TWOW chapter did nothing to dispel it.

[benteen]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:21 PM, nikma said:

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2018/04/25/fire-blood-on-the-way/#comments

 

LOL on so many levels. He is even implying that ASOIAF is not his main story. He is truly lost. Sad end. 

If his fake history books are now his main story (probably just said to justify him spending so much time on them) it's still a fail because if he doesn't finish Game of Thrones, the history of his world will never be complete.

[Hanahope]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:38 PM, anamika said:

I am guessing Fire and Blood is to pacify them and make them some money.

Won't be making any money from me.  i have no intention of buying anything of his until the series is complete.  If he completes another ASOFAI book before I die, I will get from the library.

[anamika]

8 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Won't be making any money from me.  i have no intention of buying anything of his until the series is complete.  If he completes another ASOFAI book before I die, I will get from the library.

GRRM on the other hand thinks that lots of people are interested in these books. In reply to a person complaining about the Targaryen history books on his blog:

Quote

Lots of people want Targaryen history. And Dunk & Egg stories. And Wild Cards books. Some even want more Haviland Tuf stories, or a sequel to FEVRE DREAM, or that 1890s journalism novel I never finished.

You don’t happen to be one of them, I get it. But you don’t speak for everyone. Far from it.

I don't know if he is pretending to not understand why fans want TWoW instead of FAB or if he genuinely thinks that his readers would be satisfied with those other books. The fawning fans on his blog comment section don't help and as we have seen his self-esteem is pretty good considering he has put himself up there with Dickens, Fitzgerald and Tolkien.

[ElizaD]

I think that GRRM and his fans ought to be incredibly grateful to D&D. Imagine what his legacy would have been if the show had never been made or if it had been so bad that it flopped after a couple of seasons. I was there for the AFFC/ADWD waits: while GRRM may have gotten even busier because of his current fame and the extra side project opportunities, a decade ago he was already so slow and the story so unwieldy that it was a serious possibility that it would never be finished. The pre-TV era was a totally different experience from a doorstopper series like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, where fans complained about the bloat and joked about Jordan dying before he finished the series without ever really expecting it to happen because we were still getting huge novels every couple of years that moved the plot forward in tiny steps. In the end, Jordan got out of the swamp of fantasy worldbuilding bloat and his final book set the stage for the endgame that was then finished by another author based on the notes Jordan made after he was diagnosed with terminal illness; I have a lot of respect for Jordan for understanding how important it was to have that ending and working on it while he was literally dying.

But GRRM? His story was bloating and the delays were getting longer without any sign that things would get better, and his famous "gardener" approach was horrifyingly unsuited to an epic series (while also managing to demonstrate near-total ignorance of all the goddamn planning gardeners actually have to do in order to get the results they want, since flowers don't give a damn about your good intentions if you haven't properly timed and prepared the conditions for their growth). Things like the removal of the five-year gap and the Meereenese Knot became fancy excuses for the kinds of problems other doorstopper authors also face without giving them names and going into great detail about how they solved the problem since they know they have to move on to the next huge novel that will bring its own problems.

I fully believe that without the TV show we would never know the ending to this series. We would get TWOW, and it would become obvious that at least two more books were needed, and we would never get more than one of them - if we got anything at all. And then ASOIAF would become a footnote in genre history. GRRM is no Tolkien or Rowling who are in the canon of fantasy (and even world) literature because of their own achievements, which are not reliant on Hollywood adaptations: the degree of GRRM's fame and influence is entirely due to the massive, massive success of the TV show. ASOIAF wasn't adapted because he was a giant of literature, he was adapted because D&D saw potential in a series that was respected and successful within the fairly small fantasy bubble. Without this TV show, without the success that has continued to increase even as it moved past the published books, without the ending to the story that only HBO is going to provide, only a small percentage of fantasy diehards would give a damn about his "GRRMarillion" and Targaryen worldbuilding. GRRM is not Tolkien, Dickens or Fitzgerald: he's That Guy, who wrote the novel on which an immensely more iconic adaptation was based. In GRRM's case, he's not even responsible for all the source material, since D&D were already going beyond the books in season 5 of 8. If the show audience loves the ending where, say, Dany reigns with her Targaryen restoration baby as heir, that will be based on GRRM's idea, but the execution and its success will be entirely due to D&D.

[YaddaYadda]

GRRM is arrogant and I think his editors should have reeled his ass in a long time ago. 

[Hanahope]

I definitely agree that without the HBO show, GRRM wouldn't have half his fans/followers.  Most people I know hadn't read any of his books until the show came out.  I had only read the first when I first heard the show was being created and it sparked my interest.  So yeah, he's definitely not in the same club as Tolkien, Dickens, Fitzgerald or Rowling even.  if there was some indication he was definitely working on the books, i'd be inclined to get more of his outlier/filler stuff.  But there's not.  I am glad that at least we'll get some sortof ending to the story, through the TV show, since I don't have a faith he'll provide it in written form.

And GRRM isn't the only author that's hooked me on 2/3 of a story and let me hang.  One story I'm told will almost certainly never finish (and so I will not read any other books written by that author), the other is probably going to be written, but who knows when (I've heard that a televised format is being discussed for the story, and if so, I hope they push the author to write the ending before they start filming).

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

GRRM is arrogant and I think his editors should have reeled his ass in a long time ago. 

I remember a few years ago in relation to discussions about AFFC and ADWD's desperate need for editing, someone said that once an author reaches a certain level of popularity the editor loses any ability to reel them in and that the publisher pretty much lets the author do as they please. I have no idea whether that's true, but in GRRM's case, it would explain a lot.