Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

Legends of Tomorrow Boss on That Zari Twist and What It Means for Season 5

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Nate's life may have been spared, but the Legends lost Zari, who changed her future after stepping out of the Temporal Zone to help him. What's going on with her? Is she gone for good?
Klemmer: Well, she's not dead. You have to just imagine a world in which her dystopian, authoritarian future never happened. The only reason she was on the team is because of all the horrible things that happened. She was a product of an awful experience, and she was a triumphant person. She was a force of nature, and she's brilliant and resilient. What we want to play around with next season is getting at the irony that sometimes, if you give a person everything, that maybe if she lived a more charmed life, she wouldn't be the Zari that we know and love. That doesn't mean it wasn't totally a victory [in the Season 4 finale]. But you know, in saving the world, you would lose her as maybe a less savory or less cool Zari I think we might be encountering in the future. I think we might experience what happened if Zari were a little spoiled. Because moving forward, she's a bit of an internet celebrity of some sort. It's the girl who tamed dragons. 

In her place, we have her formerly deceased brother Behrad. Nate sensed something was off, hinting that he might be aware of the alternate timeline. How will that come into play in Season 5?
Klemmer: We played a little bit with Constantine in "Legends of Legends of To-Meow-Meow," having to deal with dual realities, and it drove him pretty bonkers. I guess you could say that there's a similar reckoning in Nate's brain. What we're trying to say is you can change reality, but some things are too powerful to be erased from someone's memory, like being in love with his woman. I guess we're gonna have to see whether next season's Zari is really worthy of that love. 

Zari and Nate did have that sweet moment together before she changed into her brother. 
Klemmer: We never knew if that relationship was gonna work. It's all being tested before America's eyes. There was a moment where we were just like, "I don't know if this is going to work." Then there was that moment where she straightened Nate's tie before his dad's funeral and you're just like, "OK, it's gonna work."

It was really cool to see Vandal Savage return in such a surprising way. What a lovely nod to Season 1. What made you want to bring him back?
Klemmer: Casper Crump is so delightful in the same way that Arthur Darvill [is]. Arthur and Cas play these pretty stern, somewhat joyless characters in Season 1, and then as soon as you called cut, you realize that these guys are incredibly animated and hilarious and multitalented. And so, if our show has a shot at redemption, we figured that Casper deserved at least as much. Just as a human being, he has always been a Legend, and we were forcing him into straight villainy but it never quite fit. Whenever he was playing Vandal Savage, there was always a twinkle in his eyes that indicated he was slightly tongue in cheek. He actually belongs on our show now more than ever because he's delightful. However many episodes we do next season, if we can find that number of people from hell to be our bad guys, I think we're gonna have a great season. 

What are some of the themes and stories you'd like to explore next season?
Klemmer: It seems like this time every year, we come back to the same question. It's always about growing up. The Legends are kind of living in this Neverland, the best time travelers. And it's like the tension, they always feel it like that's a fantasy, that you would never have to grow old. You would never have to succumb to adult responsibilities, but it's also a nightmare. Because on one hand, you have mortgages and jury duty and all kinds of horrid stuff. But then, you also have children and long-term relationships. There's a wonderful flip side to that coin. At a certain point, all of them are gonna grow up. They're like a band, and everybody wants to keep the band back together, but everybody has a life outside of that band. Next season is gonna about: How do you grow up without moving on?

We heard mention of Damien Darhk who is said to be going mad in hell. Is that something you plan to explore further?
Klemmer: We would die to have Neal McDonough on the show again.

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I think we might experience what happened if Zari were a little spoiled. Because moving forward, she's a bit of an internet celebrity of some sort. It's the girl who tamed dragons. 

Why, Phil, why? Zari is a great character and this is what you want to do with her? Upside is reading this makes it easier to wait until January.

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

What we're trying to say is you can change reality, but some things are too powerful to be erased from someone's memory, like being in love with his woman. I guess we're gonna have to see whether next season's Zari is really worthy of that love. 

Is Zari worthy? Fucking hell, Nate would be lucky to date any version of Zari, but if this is how the writers see Nate & Zari I am not looking forward to next season.

[Sakura12]

Good I hope they get back to the more grounded stuff and actually time travel again. I think cutting the time Bureau stuff will also help bring the show back to being about the Legends. 

If Astra is releasing the worst of humanity back out into the world we'll still need Constantine but it will be a little more serious. I don't mind the wacky but if it comes in place of characters then I do mind. They can't handle all these characters so they need to cut back. Mick, Sara, Charlie and even Ray didn't do much of anything this season. (Brandon only got to something as a different character). 

[Starfish35]

10 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Is Zari worthy? Fucking hell, Nate would be lucky to date any version of Zari

Yeah, that irritated me too.  Let’s stay away from any talk of any woman being “worthy” of a man, ok, Phil? 😠 

[Sakura12]

The writers Nate obsession is getting ridiculous. I've got nothing against Zano, but Nate is not that amazing. I just started not minding him, then they go and ruin Zari, a character I've liked since her introduction for him. I hope he takes more a back seat next season but I doubt it since only him (Behrad and new Zari) and Constantine (Astra) got a set up storyline for next season. 

[Proteus]

That line about new Zari having to be worthy of Nate burns me up. They clearly put all their eggs in the Nate/Zari basket and think they are so amazing everyone would be riveted in their true love that came out of nowhere driving a lot of next season. I don't understand why they feel Nate can't exist on this show at least for one season without some epic love story. I hate that Zari has now been reduced to Nates love interest like Amaya was. It is just so disappointing and sad.

[jay741982]

20 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Why, Phil, why? Zari is a great character and this is what you want to do with her? Upside is reading this makes it easier to wait until January.

Is Zari worthy? Fucking hell, Nate would be lucky to date any version of Zari, but if this is how the writers see Nate & Zari I am not looking forward to next season.

Considering Klemmer thought a forced rushed relationship between Zari and Nate would work cause of her straightening his tie that should tell ya hes a clown 

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

That line about new Zari having to be worthy of Nate burns me up. They clearly put all their eggs in the Nate/Zari basket and think they are so amazing everyone would be riveted in their true love that came out of nowhere driving a lot of next season. I don't understand why they feel Nate can't exist on this show at least for one season without some epic love story. I hate that Zari has now been reduced to Nates love interest like Amaya was. It is just so disappointing and sad.

Yep I've been saying it's obvious Nate is PKs pet character, hes the big stud that has to bang muplite women coworkers. PK also said Nora would be a better match for Constantine instead of Ray. Hes a clown

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The writers Nate obsession is getting ridiculous. I've got nothing against Zano, but Nate is not that amazing. I just started not minding him, then they go and ruin Zari, a character I've liked since her introduction for him. I hope he takes more a back seat next season but I doubt it since only him (Behrad and new Zari) and Constantine (Astra) got a set up storyline for next season. 

Damn right Nate isnt amazing. It should is he worthy of Zari not the other way around. But hes just so awesome and big stud man BARF

[Featherhat]

They know they have an awesome character yet with Zari who has only been on the show 2 seasons and doesn't really have a timelimit, why the need to change her? Nate sure as hell isn't. Take Ashe will probably handle it very well and I'll like nu!Zari because of het, but I adored the old one and she got loads of great reviews. Sigh. She sure as hell doesn't need to prove herself worthy of anyone let alone Nate. I really don't get why he needs two romances which have followed the exact same patterns two team mates.

Nora and Constantine should definitely stay away from each other, nothing good could come of that.

[Lugal]

17 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The writers Nate obsession is getting ridiculous. I've got nothing against Zano, but Nate is not that amazing. I just started not minding him, then they go and ruin Zari, a character I've liked since her introduction for him.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more it pisses me off.  Nate is killed, but Zari is the one that "dies."  This version of her that we have come to know for the last two years is gone.  And she goes out in the worst way possible, all about Nate, who gets the Tinkerbell "clap sing if you believe" resurrection. 

We'll meet a new version of her next year and I'm hoping it will be like Charlie, who was more interesting than Amaya was (because she wasn't tied to Nate and got to be a character in her own right) who was unfortunately sidelined for Mona.  But given the decline in the second half of this season, I doubt lightning will strike twice.  I'm sure Tala Ashe will rock new!Zari, but it's still so disappointing.

[jay741982]

10 hours ago, Featherhat said:

They know they have an awesome character yet with Zari who has only been on the show 2 seasons and doesn't really have a timelimit, why the need to change her? Nate sure as hell isn't. Take Ashe will probably handle it very well and I'll like nu!Zari because of het, but I adored the old one and she got loads of great reviews. Sigh. She sure as hell doesn't need to prove herself worthy of anyone let alone Nate. I really don't get why he needs two romances which have followed the exact same patterns two team mates.

Nora and Constantine should definitely stay away from each other, nothing good could come of that.

Agreed! Plus I love her and Ray and want him to be the guy with the girlfriend for once 

[Starfish35]

I feel like a terrible person thinking it, knowing what Nick Zano has gone through with his family this year, but I feel like it would have been a stronger finale if Nate had died for real.  That would give the show some real stakes going into next season, with the whole team reeling from his loss.  And it would have helped save Zari’s story from becoming all about him I think.  At least somewhat.  As it stands now, it’s being framed more like “Nate losing another love of his life” rather than “Zari losing who she was”.

[Sakura12]

I agree, I think Nate should've stayed dead to give some stakes to this season. Because there wasn't any, there was no real threat to the characters. Which kind makes this a waste of a season from a story POV. 

I actually read that Nate was supposed to die, but the writers loved him too much. So once again they changed everything for Nate. He's not even that great a character. If he died and we lost Zari that would've been something for all the Legends to deal with. They loved her too. She was part of their team they could all be dealing with having 2 timelines in their heads, not just Nate. 

Especially since they said they want the Legends to start growing up next season. Losing someone close to you is a part of that. 

[johntfs]

Amaya was brave, wise, tough, capable and a bit of a freak in the sack.  She was an amazing character and I was sad to see her go.  Charlie makes me say "Amaya who?"

Tala Ashe did an amazing job with the character of Zari Tomaz, but I am totally fine with the idea that Zari's story is over now.  I'm eager to see what Tala will do with a different character - even if that different character is another version of Zari Tomaz.

[BaggythePanther]

As sad as I am to lose our Zari, I like the fact that she will now be able to avoid the dystopian future and won’t have to suffer through the death of her parents and brother. I want the storyline to concentrate on that plot next season. Not Nate’s manpain at losing a second girlfriend, not Nate judging NuZari’s worthiness. But a story about a happy, well-adjusted Zari and how experiences vs personality make us who we are.

[Starfish35]

12 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I want the storyline to concentrate on that plot next season. Not Nate’s manpain at losing a second girlfriend, not Nate judging NuZari’s worthiness. But a story about a happy, well-adjusted Zari and how experiences vs personality make us who we are.

Yes, this, exactly. 

[johntfs]

I want this next season.

[MarkHB]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:54 PM, BaggythePanther said:

But a story about a happy, well-adjusted Zari and how experiences vs personality make us who we are.

It doesn't sound like you're quite going to get that... From one of the interviews I read, yes, the Evil ARGUS future never happens and she grows up with her family intact. But, instead of being the kid who was mercilessly teased, she's The Girl Who Tamed A Dragon and everyone's been kissing her ass since she was seven. 

[BaggythePanther]

8 hours ago, MarkHB said:

It doesn't sound like you're quite going to get that... From one of the interviews I read, yes, the Evil ARGUS future never happens and she grows up with her family intact. But, instead of being the kid who was mercilessly teased, she's The Girl Who Tamed A Dragon and everyone's been kissing her ass since she was seven. 

I’m a little disappointed that NuZari will be  famous, because I think a well-adjusted Zari would be different enough from our current Zari. But this show isn’t character driven, it’s Legends of Tomorrow, so of course her new backstory is over-the-top. 

My point is that I want to see a story about Zari, how her new situation changed her personality and if any of the old Zari is still there underneath. We know she is spoiled, but is she snarky, brave, does she still enjoy eating all the time? Were those traits that developed as a result of her experiences, or is that just who she is?

What I don’t want is for Zari’s new personality to be used as angst for Nate or an excuse to re-do Nate and Zari’s romance.

[Proteus]

I think Zari is a lost cause. She is nothing but Nates love interest now. Everything about her will be about him and how he reacts to her from this point forward. Klemmer even said we will have to see if new Zari is worthy of Nate. At this point I feel like it may just better if they write Tala Ashe out and be done with it. But they won't. Nate & Zari is Klemmers new favorite couple.

[johntfs]

29 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I think Zari is a lost cause. She is nothing but Nates love interest now. Everything about her will be about him and how he reacts to her from this point forward. Klemmer even said we will have to see if new Zari is worthy of Nate. At this point I feel like it may just better if they write Tala Ashe out and be done with it. But they won't. Nate & Zari is Klemmers new favorite couple.

Maybe the new Zari will decide that Nate is a dweeb and hook up with Mick.  Or Charlie.

[Maverick]

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what the plans are for next season.  The show is probably the worst in the Arrowverse for swerving off what the setup in the previous season.  Or even in the first half of the season.   This year it was like the got all new writers after coming back from the break.

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe the new Zari will decide that Nate is a dweeb and hook up with Mick.  Or Charlie.

I'd love that. Sigh.

40 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what the plans are for next season.  The show is probably the worst in the Arrowverse for swerving off what the setup in the previous season.  Or even in the first half of the season.   This year it was like the got all new writers after coming back from the break.

Half the things Klemmer says will happen never do.

[statsgirl]

One of the (many) things I don't about the Zari re-do is that she's lost her powers. Now the only women are Mona and Charlie who have special powers or abilities and they're both monsters. Meanwhile Nate is still Steel, Ray has his suit, Constantine magic, Mick his gun and now Zari's brother has her powers. Doesn't seem fair to me.

12 hours ago, MarkHB said:

she's The Girl Who Tamed A Dragon and everyone's been kissing her ass since she was seven. 

Ugh. Sounds like a prescription for narcissism. So tough, snarky, caring Zari becomes a conceited jerk?  No thanks.

[Proteus]

Klemmer even says in one of the pieces that new Zari is not supposed to be likeable. So I figure this is all about manipulating viewers in rooting for Nate to get "his" woman back.

This interview explains some of Klemmers thoughts:

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2472033/legends-of-tomorrow-showrunner-talks-crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossover-season-5-and-more

"Next season is going to have a slightly new configuration. I guess the way I would tease it, the same way that Maisie Richardson-Sellers got a chance to play someone quite different than Amaya, we're going to afford that opportunity to another Legend, which should be fun. Hopefully we'll be continuing Constantine but we'll be picking up sort of a new chapter in his backstory. We'll be spending a little time in Hell. I think we'll be getting back to the world of classic time travel adventures. We did a lot of fun monsters and horror movie genres, I think we want to get back to history a little bit. I guess we never want to do the same show twice. If we keep doing the show, every season should find a new group of Legends. I just want to change up the dynamic."

"Again, I feel like the Legends have slowly been growing up over these past four years, and I think we're approaching a point in the lives of at least one of the Legends where, I really liked the way they said goodbye in the past to people like Jax, where you have this realization, like 'You don't need this ship anymore! You can live life on the outside.' I think we want to challenge some of our Legends with with actually having to [live]. Hopefully Sara and Ava, that feels like a real adult, real world relationship to people. We want to keep them growing. It's a funny thing. You want the show to evolve but you want the characters to evolve too. It's hard, because we love them the way they are, hopefully. But you can't really stand still in life or on network television. So yeah, I hope everybody got their fill with 16 magical creature stories, because we're going to take a sharp left turn and I think we're going to find at least one new Legend next season. And who knows what happens after that?"

Edited May 25, 2019 by Proteus

[MarkHB]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Ugh. Sounds like a prescription for narcissism. So tough, snarky, caring Zari becomes a conceited jerk? 

That is exactly how I took it.  Of course, as others mentioned here, the Legends writers are masters of Step 4: Throw Away the Plan, so who knows?

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

One of the (many) things I don't about the Zari re-do is that she's lost her powers. Now the only women are Mona and Charlie who have special powers or abilities and they're both monsters. Meanwhile Nate is still Steel, Ray has his suit, Constantine magic, Mick his gun and now Zari's brother has her powers. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Ugh. Sounds like a prescription for narcissism. So tough, snarky, caring Zari becomes a conceited jerk?  No thanks.

I think the likelihood that Zari's brother survives the Crisis is slim to none.  So, sadly, he'll die heroically and this time Zari won't have to feel guilty about it.   However, because of her bloodline, she'll take up the Air Totem anyway.

Zari might start out next season as a conceited jerk.  Figure part of her arc will be finding her way to her better qualities, but not simply going back to who she was.  Because who she used to be was a deeply wounded, grieving person.  Besides, Tala Ashe playing every spoiled, snotty Hollywood type should be kind of a blast to watch.

Edited May 25, 2019 by johntfs

[Proteus]

So they'd kill Behrad off before even exploring him on the show? Cause we won't get any actual Legends episodes until after COIE.

[shantown]

32 minutes ago, Proteus said:

So they'd kill Behrad off before even exploring him on the show? Cause we won't get any actual Legends episodes until after COIE.

This cast is so huge that they don't get to explore some of the current characters - I'd rather see Behrad bite the dust than Sara or Mick or Ray (and Charlie and Zari and Nora). There's a few characters that I wouldn't mind if they died or left for their "adult life" or whatever narrative is getting pushed, but I don't want to learn about another new character at the expense of current ones.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, shantown said:

This cast is so huge that they don't get to explore some of the current characters - I'd rather see Behrad bite the dust than Sara or Mick or Ray (and Charlie and Zari and Nora). There's a few characters that I wouldn't mind if they died or left for their "adult life" or whatever narrative is getting pushed, but I don't want to learn about another new character at the expense of current ones.

I just think it's highly unlikely Behrad dies before Legends new season actually starts. I don't think any Legends are dying in COIE.

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

That is exactly how I took it.  Of course, as others mentioned here, the Legends writers are masters of Step 4: Throw Away the Plan, so who knows?

Apart from a few things they have been good (seasons 2-3 and parts of 4) with introducing new characters and making the plots work. I want Zari as we know her and that might happen, but I think I'll like TA's acting/charisma anyway. It's just disappointing PK is focusing on this as a Nate plot, not a personal Zari plot and her brother gets to be a hero whilst  on the female side Mona is still hanging around. And I really don't know what they were/are trying to accomplish with her character, which The show really didn't need.

The annoying thing is I really liked Nate's development earlier in the season I know it was partly due to his daughter but the bureau stuff and bonding with his dad and Ava and not banging a team mate was great. He was adopting beautifully! Now, meh. But I haven't lost all hope in LOT just yet. Maybe the mid season launch will let them reset a bit, they haven't got quite the glowing "so crazy yet so awesome" reviews they've been used to the last couple of years, which was their thing in the Arrowverse

Edited May 25, 2019 by Featherhat

[Proteus]

45 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Apart from a few things they have been good (seasons 2-3 and parts of 4) with introducing new characters and making the plots work. I want Zari as we know her and that might happen, but I think I'll like TA's acting/charisma anyway. It's just disappointing PK is focusing on this as a Nate plot, not a personal Zari plot and her brother gets to be a hero whilst  on the female side Mona is still hanging around. And I really don't know what they were/are trying to accomplish with her character, which The show really didn't need.

The annoying thing is I really liked Nate's development earlier in the season I know it was partly due to his daughter but the bureau stuff and bonding with his dad and Ava and not banging a team mate was great. He was adopting beautifully! Now, meh. But I haven't lost all hope in LOT just yet. Maybe the mid season launch will let them reset a bit, they haven't got quite the glowing "so crazy yet so awesome" reviews they've been used to the last couple of years, which was their thing in the Arrowverse

Nates story at the beginning of the season didn't have anything to do with Zanos daughter. It was just what the show had planned for him pre rewrite since they chickened out on making Hank the big bad.

Unless TPTB acknowledge all the criticism they are getting for this past season I don't have much hope. The critics still give them a lot of praise. So I have to wonder if they realize how bad season 4 has been perceived by viewers.

[jay741982]

16 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe the new Zari will decide that Nate is a dweeb and hook up with Mick.  Or Charlie.

Considering how fast tracked the Nate and Zari forced Romance was. And judging from what that Clown Klemmer said New Zari will probably be Spolied but Awesome Stud man Nate will change her. Seriously that "is she worthy of Nate" crap is sickening 

[BaggythePanther]

3 hours ago, Proteus said:

Unless TPTB acknowledge all the criticism they are getting for this past season I don't have much hope. The critics still give them a lot of praise. So I have to wonder if they realize how bad season 4 has been perceived by viewers.

I think the general complaints about season 4 are that the magic/magical creatures don’t fit; they barely time travel and when they do the time period doesn’t matter; it doesn’t feel like a superhero show anymore. The changes Phil talks about for next season addresses all those complaints. I do think they realize they’ve gone too wacky and they’ll probably go for the crazy of season 3. 

Criticisms that we’ve discussed here such as the Nate/Zari relationship, large cast or over involvement of the Time Bureau aren’t things I see mentioned often in reviews, I doubt they’ll be addressed.

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think the likelihood that Zari's brother survives the Crisis is slim to none.  So, sadly, he'll die heroically and this time Zari won't have to feel guilty about it. 

I know this show has too many people and the last thing we need is to add another cast members but I really hope we’re not getting another MOC just so he can die. In the comics Zari’s brother is Osiris, a hero in his own right, so I hope he sticks around for a bit.

[legaleagle53]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:10 PM, statsgirl said:

One of the (many) things I don't about the Zari re-do is that she's lost her powers. Now the only women are Mona and Charlie who have special powers or abilities and they're both monsters. Meanwhile Nate is still Steel, Ray has his suit, Constantine magic, Mick his gun and now Zari's brother has her powers. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Ahem. Nora still has HER powers. She's just apparently stuck in fairy-godmother form until someone figures out how to change her back.

[statsgirl]

On 5/26/2019 at 2:29 AM, legaleagle53 said:

 Nora still has HER powers.

Yes, I had forgotten about Nora when I wrote that. Is she good now? Because if she's still considered evil, I stand by my assertion that there's an imbalance when all the female characters with powers are considered monsters or evil while the men are all good.

[Starfish35]

She’s good now.  

[tv echo]

Fall TV Preview: Who's In? Who's Out? Our Guide to Every Casting Move So Far
By Team TVLine / June 18 2019
https://tvline.com/gallery/tv-cast-changes-spoilers-2019-2020-season/#!16/tv-cast-changes-legends-of-tomorrow-tala-ashe/

Quote

DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW
Tala Ashe will remain a series regular for Season 5, playing a different version of Zari.

[Proteus]

https://tvline.com/2019/06/26/the-flash-season-6-spoilers-new-scientist/

Any scoop on DC’s Legends of Tomorrow? —Derrick
So, this was interesting: This spring, when I asked showrunner Phil Klemmer if there would be any pregnancies/babies to include in our world-famous May Sweeps scorecard, he answered, “No — although we’re planning on many, many, multiple children in Season 5.” Surely he jests, right? “Not a joke,” he maintained. “Totally for real.”

My spec: Maybe children will play the original Guardians of time?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

I'd rather they use someone else's idea of having the Legends turned into their child selves but retain their adult memories. And if possible get the actors that previously played them. We've seen child selves of pretty much all of them. We have to see them solve their mission looking like children. That is something only Legends can do. 

[Proteus]

That could work for an episode but not an ongoing thing. Since Klemmer says many children in season 5, it sounds like it'll be something ongoing.

[Proteus]

From TV Line:

Question: Any Legends of Tomorrow casting announcements on new series regulars, exits, etc. coming soon? —Derrick
Ausiello: Rumor has it that Season 5 will introduce a new male character that can best be described as a cross between Captain Jack Sparrow and a Russian-accented Russell Brand.

Question: Do you have any information on whether or not Matt Ryan is returning to Legends of Tomorrow next season? —Betty
Ausiello: Our own Matt, Mitovich, checked into this, and yes: Constantin’s portrayer is continuing as a series regular for Season 5 (premiering at midseason).

[BaggythePanther]

Why are they adding another character? This show has too many people as it is.

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Why are they adding another character? This show has too many people as it is.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[Featherhat]

I wonder if a character or two is no longer as season regular in that case or is being written off in COIE? Because the cast is huge at this point with some "regulars" being in a handful of episodes a season. Captain Jack crossed with Russell Brand, that's a lot of personality on a ship with a lot of personalities, especially with Constantine still around, and could end up taking a lot of time. 

[Sakura12]

That's an issue when shows go on too long the writers get bored and want new toys to play with, so they make new characters and push the old ones aside. When anyone who stuck around for this show this long is watching for the old characters. I know the critics seemed to like last season, but I thought it was the worst one yet. Even Season 1 was better because it had some good character moments. I don't even remember any good character moments from Season 4.  I barely remember anything really significant happening. 

They are too focused on the zany antics and not the characters. They used to be able balance that better. Now they have too many and it's ruining what I liked about the show in the first place. I don't mind the zany crazy stuff as long as the characters stay true to who they are and have some character growth. Nate was the only character that had an actual storyline, everyone else was just standing around. That means they have too many characters, adding another new character is only going to make that worse. 

[Proteus]

New series regular:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/07/11/legends-of-tomorrow-olivia-swann-astra-season-5-big-bad/amp/

Astra Logue will continue to cause trouble for DC’s Legends of Tomorrow in season 5.

EW can exclusively reveal that Olivia Swann, who portrays Astra, a.k.a. Constantine’s Achilles heel, has been promoted to series regular for season 5. It’s fair to say this doesn’t mean anything good for the Legends seeing as how last season ended with Astra releasing the souls of Genghis Khan, Charles Manson, and many other historical bad guys back into the world of the living.

“We’re so excited about having Astra back this season as our big bad,” executive producer Keto Shimizu tells EW.

In season 4, we learned that Constantine (Matt Ryan) sent Astra to hell when she was only a child. Unsurprisingly, coming of age around demons and the worst souls in history didn’t have the best effect on her, and she learned ruthlessness is the only way to survive. Now an adult, Astra is determined to rise to the top of hell’s food chain, even if it means shedding the last piece of her humanity.

“A lot of what Constantine is going to be dealing with this is season is his very complicated relationship with her and a desire to save her despite all the pain and trouble she’s putting us through,” Shimizu says.

“We always chicken out when it comes to our big bads. She’ll probably be rehabilitated by episode 4,” jokes EP Phil Klemmer, referencing Damien (Neal McDonough) and Nora Darhk’s (Courtney Ford) redemption arcs in seasons 3 and 4, respectively, which were the result of how much the writers loved those characters. But Shimizu is confident they can keep their affection for Astra in check until episode 14 at least.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Proteus

[tv echo]

Neal McDonough Teases Villainous Malcolm of Yellowstone & More!
Carissa Pavlica at July 11, 2019
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2019/07/neal-mcdonough-teases-villainous-malcolm-of-yellowstone-and-more/ 

Quote

He'll be returning to Legends of Tomorrow, too. "They want me to come back for the final episodes, which will be kind of fun. I miss Damien, a tongue-in-cheek fun villain. But by the end of the last season, he wasn't really a villainous, he turned into a hero doing whatever it takes to protect his daughter.

"So I really, really loved my last season on Legends. It was one of my favorite things I've ever done because again, he was super dad, not super villain anymore. I like playing those guys because that's closest to me, you know, being the goofy father of five.

He doesn't know what he'll be doing quite yet, but he has a lot of faith in Marc Guggenheim, "one of the most talented writers I've ever been blessed to be around," to create something pretty special for his character.

Edited July 12, 2019 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

“final episodes”?