S05.E14: Surprise!

[hottesthw]

I think her point about Kyle was that she's doesn't look to Kyle every part of every day so Kyle should be able to make time for her when she does need her because you know that's what sisters are for.. No? I mean Kyle is the one that wants to wear the cloak of honor and yet we hear that she's not necessarily available to Kim which of course do you Kyle I don't really give a fuck but being that a lot of the bullshit revolves around Kyle being pissed that she's being painted as a bad sister who isn't there for Kim then I do think it's relevant that Kyle is too busy for Kim. Kyle can't have her cake and eat it to. She is either unavailable which is acceptable or she's a present sister for when Kim needs support. Kyle can't use her past years of rollercoasters when speaking of supporting Kim in real time. Iknow that seems unfair to her but in all honesty Kyle needs to just let go of it. No one can take away the years they've stuck it out which is what Kim was trying to confirm to Kyle. It's petty and immature. What matters is the current state of your family and children and routing and Kim's continuing to focus on staying sober amongst other things going on in her life. The whole who is taking points away from who in the decades old drama of "who's been there for Kim" is pretty ridiculous.

Kyle's complaints were about that minute, when they were together and Brandi was telling the world not only has Kyle not been there for the "phone call" but she's never been there for Kim. That she's never cared. And Kim stood there silent. Kyle never disputes not taking "the phone call". Kyle disputes the claims that she's never been there for Kim. Something that Kim confirms AFTER the scene but not during (when it counts IMO). Seems like once Kim sober up she realize she better not burn the bridge to Kyle that she needs so she says the right thing. But sometimes it's a little too late. If Kyle can be the one you turn to to get you out of one embarrassing public moment after another, maybe you should show her the same public respect.

[thewhiteowl]

FYI:

 

For those speculating, Kim has shared what her support system consists of in her blog for this episode. 

 

Kim: I Shouldn't Have to Defend My Actions

by Kim Richards February 17, 2015 • 9:50 PM ET

 

Kim explains why the other ladies don't know the details of her sobriety.

 

Throughout my sobriety, I have shared much of my journey with you all. As part of my recovery program, I work with a great life coach, Gary, who is accessible to me 24/7 as well as a close-knit group of sober friends and family I speak to everyday. My support system isn’t just Brandi and Kyle. I don’t need Kyle to be there for me every single moment of every single day. The reason why these ladies don’t know everything about this integral part of my life is because I don’t shout it out on the rooftops, and I choose to be private about some things (because this is what works for me). Growing up as a child actress and being part of a “reality” show, I understand privacy is not easily defined and exposure comes with the job, but certain parts of my recovery journey is for me only—my health, my mind, and my soul. And I shouldn’t have to justify my actions and decisions to anyone else.

 

 All I can do is wonder who the hell wrote that.  I don't believe I've seen that person. It sounds great but I don't believe a stinking word of it. At least as it would apply to Kim. She lies.

I am glad some of them are finally talking about Kim's addictions. Shining a light on it is messy and uncomfortable and while I don't think it is anyone's moral obligation to do it I do think it needs to be done by anyone who has the guts to deal with the mess and discomfort. Secrets only flourish in the dark.

[Persnickety1]

And because I haven't even had a full cup of coffee yet so I'm not a pleasant person yet, I would like to say to Kim:

 

Stop tweeting hospital selfies and no one will even know your squirrel ass was in the hospital.

 

Honestly, this woman is beginning to just piss me off with her "blah blah blah" about her privacy and shit.

 

And, yeah, coughing does make one's oxygen saturation drop.  If Kim were in the hospital and had that cough she claims fractured her rib, she would have been desaturating during every coughing episode.  She would have had a nasal cannula for oxygen delivery as a preventative measure and her oxygen saturations would have been monitored continuously.  It's standard protocol.  

 

I'm beginning to think her big mysterious hospital stay might have been a ruse for a quick medical detox.  

 

Something skeevy about the whole thing.  Kinda like Kim herself.  

[Persnickety1]

 All I can do is wonder who the hell wrote that.  I don't believe I've seen that person. It sounds great but I don't believe a stinking word of it. At least as it would apply to Kim. She lies.

I am glad some of them are finally talking about Kim's addictions. Shining a light on it is messy and uncomfortable and while I don't think it is anyone's moral obligation to do it I do think it needs to be done by anyone who has the guts to deal with the mess and discomfort. Secrets only flourish in the dark.

 

Gary the life coach?  

[copacabana]

Kim didn't write that blog -- no way.  Whoever handles her during filming and beyond most likely did.  Even though the whole thing is total PR driven BS, Kim has never proven coherent enough, ever, to come up with that kind of yarn.  Anyone who starts writing about "my soul" immediately gets 50 points of good will shaved off at my house anyway. I'm all for that, really, but any of that is to be kept private.  I can't stand folks who parade their spirituality.   "Bitch is off her nut"  is right, Persnickety.  And the hyperbole of "shouting it off the rooftops" is just more deflection.  Get over yourself, Kim.  A wee bit of honesty and a simply sorry is all that's called for. 

 

It's a double-edged sword for anyone still watching this show.  On the one hand, we've got Kimtervention with a Brandi chaser and then we've got the rest of it.   Amsterdam will be good if we get to see a bit of that beautiful city in between fights. 

 

Back in the day -- and I never agreed with it or obeyed -- we were told not to engage sexually for at least a year into recovery.  Totally unrealistic and unhelpful although I got the reasons why. Thought it was crazy, patriarchal crap then and still do.

 

Not to throw a grenade into the room, but I do think that if both Kim and Brandi were to find a good man, woman, animal, vegetable or mineral capable of satisfying them sexually and emotionally at some basic level, they would be vastly helped in keeping themselves together. It is possible to live without intercourse and to have a great celibate life either by circumstance or by choice but it's also true that it's just flat out terrific for a woman of a certain age to have that kind of pleasure in her life if she wants it.  Unfortunately, all their LA-based Bravo shenanigans make finding anyone capable of serving them in that way nearly impossible.   If Kim and Brandi both could find someone to seriously just take them there on a semi-regular basis their need for prolonged confrontation-aggressive blowouts-and release into sobbing, melting wrecks might lessen. And I'm not talking about Kim's Ken or Brandi's various for hire guys.  Brandi's basic propositioning for money of the young moving guy was one of our more shocking moments on camera.   I mean a real man interested in being with either of these two women in just that way on a regular basis for all the right reasons = as in gold. 

[zoeysmom]

I think her point about Kyle was that she's doesn't look to Kyle every part of every day so Kyle should be able to make time for her when she does need her because you know that's what sisters are for.. No? I mean Kyle is the one that wants to wear the cloak of honor and yet we hear that she's not necessarily available to Kim which of course do you Kyle I don't really give a fuck but being that a lot of the bullshit revolves around Kyle being pissed that she's being painted as a bad sister who isn't there for Kim then I do think it's relevant that Kyle is too busy for Kim. Kyle can't have her cake and eat it to. She is either unavailable which is acceptable or she's a present sister for when Kim needs support. Kyle can't use her past years of rollercoasters when speaking of supporting Kim in real time. Iknow that seems unfair to her but in all honesty Kyle needs to just let go of it. No one can take away the years they've stuck it out which is what Kim was trying to confirm to Kyle. It's petty and immature. What matters is the current state of your family and children and routing and Kim's continuing to focus on staying sober amongst other things going on in her life. The whole who is taking points away from who in the decades old drama of "who's been there for Kim" is pretty ridiculous.

The idea of support is a two way street.  If I am needing my sister it is very important that I keep in mind from 4 pm until 8 am Monday through Friday my sister is with her family who also needs her support.  So Kim should be weighing do I absolutely need Kyle right now or an I testing Kyle's commitment to supporting me?  Kim "needing" someone to talk to at 2am is ridiculous.  She knows it and to say Kyle is not there for her at 2 am is just getting sucked into the mess that is Kim.  Same with the wedding planning-the fact Kyle chose to go on vacation with her family the month before the wedding doesn't mean Kyle wasn't supportive-she cut her vacation short to attend the hurry up wedding.  Kim had let's see the BRIDE, two adult daughters and a sister (whose home she used and dress expertise) and the groom's family.  So if anything it sounds to me like Kim made a big deal out of nothing.  Now if Kim had said, "it would have been nice to have Kyle share in the wedding planning and I understand her pre-planned vacation took precedence over me needing to show her the hydragenias we selected but I wanted to share. 

 

In the tale of the twisted sisters support can be conditional much like Kim's sobriety.  For whatever progress they have made this season it is sad that the sisters are back to square one because Kim's vicious dog bit Kyle's daughter.  This may be something all the support in the world can't fix because needy Kim and her vicious dog have just brought on a lawsuit that involved both Bravo and Evolution Media.

[Sincerely Yours]

For me the galling thing about Kim is her attitude and certainly not the fact that she has "slipped" once or twice (or over and over).  Her constant proclamations of "THREE YEARS SOBER!!!!" is just ridiculous because we have seen her impaired (Paris, Puerto Rico, limo, etc....) and we know it isn't true.  She treats us as if we are really stupid and that we'll never figure out that she's gotten one over on us.  The lack of compassion is for a liar not a addict.  How different it would be if she would just answer everyone with "I've had my ups and downs over the last three years and every day I am trying to do the right thing."  That shuts everything down.  And an apology to Eileen, Vince and LisaR would be nice.  So different from proclamations of "THREE YEARS SOBER!!!" and nothing else.

 

I agree that Lisa's toast was rude.  Her "joke" fell flat but I do like that she was letting Brandi know that even though Ken/Bravo invited her the party, nothing between them has changed.  That bridge has been burned.

The idea that one should be mad because Kim thinks she's gotten one over on us. I for one don't take it personally. It's her addiction I have no stake in the matter so I'm not sure who Kim is duping and what she is duping them out of even if she were. She's the one with the prices to pay plus the idea of Kim owing people apologies may be relevant but between Kim having to deal with all the speculation, "concern", and fighting I'm not surprised that detail isn't the first on anyone's brain. I mean even the "concerned" women don't seem to be asking for that. They are two busy putting two and two together equaling the 4 that was pretty much figured out in season one. I don't think Kim purposely withholds apologies and I'm not surprised considering all the other things that are brought to her that she's not readily prepared with apologies to hand out. Not to say it wouldn't be gracious of her and it's unnecessary but I don't even see these women crying for apologies from Kim. Just explanations, answers and gameplans.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[copacabana]

Also think, though we will never see it put out there in a real way, that any competent mental health professional -- wouldn't even need to be a real psychiatrist -- would be helping Kim recognize the connection in her own mind between herself and Kingsley.  Kingsley is Kim in her own poorly understood universe. Their behaviors are all too similar. 

[Sincerely Yours]

A friend of mine has been in the program for 30+ years.  I lived with him for nine years.  I don't know who is sponsor is, only that he has one.  I went to open meetings with him.  I asked permission to have a glass of wine in front of him and kept none in the house.  It even got to the point that, at a company Christmas function, I warned him away from the penne that was served as an inter-course, because it was loaded with vodka.

 

Here's the thing:  unless one admit there's a problem, the problem cannot be solved.  There is no 'support' system that will help with that.  Kim clearly believes she is fine, so then she is.  Until she admits that she's not, she is fine and is managing.  If she chooses to hang out with certain people because they validate her 'fine' condition, then that's what it is.  It doesn't matter how toxic that 'support' system might be, it's what gets her through.  It is admirable that the ladies want to 'intervene', but there's an old joke out there that goes like this:

 

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?  The answer is two, but only if the lightbulb wants to change.

 

That's the key.  Kim doesn't WANT to change.  This is her story line; this is what gives her life relevance both on and off the show.  Kyle has long since accepted this.  Until Kim hits bottom, Kim will not change.  Will. Not.  Bottom for many is not pretty.  My friend went on a bender 30+ years ago and it was his brother who asked him the question, 'have you had enough?'  He went to a meeting with his brother that afternoon and has been sober since.  It will take that kind of epiphany for Kim and nothing less.  Until she acknowledges the problem and wants to change it, nothing and I mean NOTHING, will improve her situation.

 

Bravo would do her a lot of good by simply dismissing her from the show, but there's ratings here and it's just too good to pass up, so they are as much an enabler as Brandi is.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!

[bichonblitz]

 

Bichon -- Loved the "Prince of Tides" analogy and in full agreement about Ken and Lisa's behavior around the birthday party.  Every once in awhile it's refreshing to see just how trashy they can really be.  

 

 

While I would like to take credit for this because it is a great analogy,  it was actually a post from Blister. 

[copacabana]

While I would like to take credit for this because it is a great analogy,  it was actually a post from Blister. 

 

Sorry to both Bichonblitz and Blister.  Always get this stuff wrong.  

 

Bichonblitz & Blister sounds like the name of my dream team lawyers firm.  

 

(We have a bichon in my extended family.  Such a sweet, sweet dog and wonderful companion.)

[thewhiteowl]

Gary the life coach?  

 

 LOL As if he even exists...

[Sincerely Yours]

 All I can do is wonder who the hell wrote that.  I don't believe I've seen that person. It sounds great but I don't believe a stinking word of it. At least as it would apply to Kim. She lies.

I am glad some of them are finally talking about Kim's addictions. Shining a light on it is messy and uncomfortable and while I don't think it is anyone's moral obligation to do it I do think it needs to be done by anyone who has the guts to deal with the mess and discomfort. Secrets only flourish in the dark.

I personally think it should be done by anyone who has the guts to deal with the mess and discomfort as well just as long as it isn't just in passing. For the long haul. I don't think this whole step on the mind field just to get it out of circulation approach is any better than trying to maneuver around them.

[copacabana]

Apologies when they are real benefit the one apologizing more than they do the one being apologized to.  Apologies aren't meant to concede victory or defeat. They're what decent folks do when a communal code is broken and stomped on.  They need to be long or needlessly humiliating.  They just need to be sincere and actually the shorter the better.  

 

We're not talking murder here or anything other than a messed up broad having made another one really uncomfortable in a limo and basically contributing to a messy evening at another chick's place.  That's it and the ship has sailed. 

 

Kim can choose not to say I'm sorry for anything and I guess she has but to keep on throwing it down with her privacy crap is just really pure BS. 

 

I also don't get this about her.  She really basically just a 70s girl, like I am.  She's still young, still attractive, and is obviously still on TV, fucked up or not.  Just own your inner back in the day diva and see if that doesn't work better for you.  And lose the poor dog. And the self-pity. 

 

I said this last week and couldn't believe it came out of my feminist mouth but here I am again -- Both Kim and Brandi should be looking to clean up their act and trying to find someone to satisfy them sexually and bring on a measure of stability.  Men look for this every minute of the day -- we can do it too if that's what we need.  I do think it's what they both need. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by copacabana

[Sincerely Yours]

The idea of support is a two way street.  If I am needing my sister it is very important that I keep in mind from 4 pm until 8 am Monday through Friday my sister is with her family who also needs her support.  So Kim should be weighing do I absolutely need Kyle right now or an I testing Kyle's commitment to supporting me?  Kim "needing" someone to talk to at 2am is ridiculous.  She knows it and to say Kyle is not there for her at 2 am is just getting sucked into the mess that is Kim.  Same with the wedding planning-the fact Kyle chose to go on vacation with her family the month before the wedding doesn't mean Kyle wasn't supportive-she cut her vacation short to attend the hurry up wedding.  Kim had let's see the BRIDE, two adult daughters and a sister (whose home she used and dress expertise) and the groom's family.  So if anything it sounds to me like Kim made a big deal out of nothing.  Now if Kim had said, "it would have been nice to have Kyle share in the wedding planning and I understand her pre-planned vacation took precedence over me needing to show her the hydragenias we selected but I wanted to share. 

 

In the tale of the twisted sisters support can be conditional much like Kim's sobriety.  For whatever progress they have made this season it is sad that the sisters are back to square one because Kim's vicious dog bit Kyle's daughter.  This may be something all the support in the world can't fix because needy Kim and her vicious dog have just brought on a lawsuit that involved both Bravo and Evolution Media.

Support can be conditional and Kim mentioned that she's not expecting Kyle to be there every minute of every day but what I take from Kim is that even with this conditional support Kyle hasn't necessarily come through when Kim really needed it. I mean I'm not inclined to believe that Kim calls Kyle at 3am because she want's help making chicken salad with her hands. Even though Kim is an addict I can't automatically believe that what Kim outlines is always some untruth. I think Kyle isn't as present as she wants us to believe and I don't believe Kim is as unintrusive as she would like us to believe however what is believable is that there are certains truths from both sides. I'm inclined to believe Kyle is more concerned with losing face as the "supportive sister" and that's what really causing this strife between Kyle and Kim because Kim doesn't reinforce this "Kyle's always been there for me" façade. I think Kim would like to be able to air her grieves with Kyle- with Kyle but everytime you hear Kim try to outline that Kyle has hurt Kim Kyle turns it around and just talks over Kim. Ever notice that?

 

I feel bad that Kim is never, ever supposed to have anything negative to say about how she feels Kyle may have disappointed her EVER! I've noticed that since season one that Kim is always painted badly if she even suggests that Kyle hasn't always supported her when she needed it. Hey that's her sis, a sis that claims to all who can hear that she's been there, will be there and will always be there. Kyle's the one who up til now has made such an impossible claim and of course reinforced by Kim here and there which is why whenever Kim tries to express her issues or disappointments with Kyle it falls on deaf ears because well "How dare you Kim, that's a slap in the face to the one person that's ALWAYS had your back" and whenever that goes down all I ever hear is what I think is going on in Kim's head which is "Well, truth is no she hasn't" and I think it's fucked up that Kim has no choice but to play that script out even though that's not entirely how she feels.

 

Kyle herself has done a bit of an about face which I think is a CYA move now that it's out there that Kyle hasn't really been as present as in past years. I think she's finally taking the I can't be... I have a family.. route which... Bitch??!!! You should have come clean about long before now! Duh! It's your right Kyle but I bet now she's just gonna milk it even more. Cause now she's going to be on the receiving end of.. "No, no Kyle don't blame yourself OF COURSE you can't be there 24/7 to clean up big bad sisters messes all the time".. Ugghhhh, I can hardly wait. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Blister]

If only Kim and Kyle weren't enjoying the attention … and on a certain level, they're loving it.  I think Kyle is one of those gals who keeps charts on how often she appears or how many minutes of an episode are devoted to her life.  And Kim just looks at it as more of the life's work she must do, under the invisible lash of Big Kathy.  

 

Yeah, I think it would be the wake up call of the century were Kim to be fired.  Just don't see it happening because Bravo is not a caring organization (about them personally or their mental health) and Kim and Kyle will do anything to stay.

[renatae]

She does exercise so that may be why her butt is high and hard, LOL.  She has to be in better than average shape to even consider doing DWTS.

 

I am just fascinated that her clothes seem to be ill-fitting when they fall below her waist, but she does not see anything wrong with that.  Yeah, I know she had some work done on her face, but she feels comfortable, IMO, to have a less than model/actress ass in a culture that has a compulsion for perfectly aligned features.

 

 

I know, right?  The star of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, no less.  SMDH.

 

 

I was surprised Kyle didn't mention she'd been in "The Watcher in the Woods" with Bette Davis. I'll bet she didn't mess with Bette's wig. Or anything else.

[WireWrap]

I think her point about Kyle was that she's doesn't look to Kyle every part of every day so Kyle should be able to make time for her when she does need her because you know that's what sisters are for.. No? I mean Kyle is the one that wants to wear the cloak of honor and yet we hear that she's not necessarily available to Kim which of course do you Kyle I don't really give a fuck but being that a lot of the bullshit revolves around Kyle being pissed that she's being painted as a bad sister who isn't there for Kim then I do think it's relevant that Kyle is too busy for Kim. Kyle can't have her cake and eat it to. She is either unavailable which is acceptable or she's a present sister for when Kim needs support. Kyle can't use her past years of rollercoasters when speaking of supporting Kim in real time. Iknow that seems unfair to her but in all honesty Kyle needs to just let go of it. No one can take away the years they've stuck it out which is what Kim was trying to confirm to Kyle. It's petty and immature. What matters is the current state of your family and children and routing and Kim's continuing to focus on staying sober amongst other things going on in her life. The whole who is taking points away from who in the decades old drama of "who's been there for Kim" is pretty ridiculous.

No, she has been trying to prove that Kyle refused to be there for Kim, when in fact it is Kim keeping Kyle at arms length. Brandi has been making the claim since the poker party that Kyle has never been there for Kim to everyone, including Kim and Kim has not told Brandi to stop lying because Kyle has been there for her. No where does Kim say that Kyle refused to help her, ever, no where does Kim say that Kyle refused a phone call from her in the middle of the night. Bottom line, you can not say that Kyle refuses to be there, to support Kim when Kim is the one saying she doesn't always turn to her. Kyle is being blamed for Kim's decision, not for anything she has done.

 

The idea that one should be mad because Kim thinks she's gotten one over on us. I for one don't take it personally. It's her addiction I have no stake in the matter so I'm not sure who Kim is duping and what they are duping them out of even if she were. She's the one with the prices to pay plus the idea of Kim owing people apologies may be relevant but between Kim having to deal with all the speculation, "concern", and fighting I'm not surprised that detail isn't the first on anyone's brain. I mean even the "concerned" women seem to be asking for that. They are two busy putting two and two together equaling the 4 that was pretty much figured out in season one. I don't think Kim purposely withholds apologies and I'm not surprised considering all the other things that are brought to her that she's not readily prepared with apologies to hand out. Not to say it wouldn't be gracious of her and it's unnecessary but I don't even see these women crying for apologies from Kim. Just explanations, answers and gameplans.

I think had Kim acknowledge her behavior to Lisa R and Eileen then they would have let Kim's "slip" slide! IMO, what is raising red flags is that Kim does not recognize she did anything wrong, not just in taking meds prescribed for someone else but her ugly/spacy behavior at Eileen's home and again at the mixer. Most people would say, "I am so sorry that I behaved that way" I am sorry you had to witness that" "I am sorry I ruined your event/night", showing that they were aware of what they did but Kim refuses to do so. It is not an apology they want, but an acknowledgement that Kim is aware of what she did and takes corrective measures, gets back on that sobriety wagon. She is doing neither as far as they or we can see.

[copacabana]

If only Kim and Kyle weren't enjoying the attention … and on a certain level, they're loving it.  I think Kyle is one of those gals who keeps charts on how often she appears or how many minutes of an episode are devoted to her life.  And Kim just looks at it as more of the life's work she must do, under the invisible lash of Big Kathy.  

 

Yeah, I think it would be the wake up call of the century were Kim to be fired.  Just don't see it happening because Bravo is not a caring organization (about them personally or their mental health) and Kim and Kyle will do anything to stay.

 

The real bottom for both Richards sisters would be to get fired from this show.  Unfortunately for them and for us I don't see that happening. 

[Persnickety1]

I strongly suspect in the world of Kim Richards, something as innocuous as, "I can't talk right now Kim, I'm headed out the door to take Portia to school, I'll call you back later" would be perceived as a massive slight by Kim and interpreted as "She just doesn't want to talk to me.  She doesn't have time for me."

 

Kim apparently relapses/slips a lot.  

 

Sometimes people just look for a reason to feel slighted/neglected/abandoned/ignored because, in an addict's mind, it's the perfect excuse to "slip."

 

Not saying this is what Kim's doing but I wouldn't be surprised to find it to be true.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by Persnickety1

[Sincerely Yours]

I strongly suspect in the world of Kim Richards, something as innocuous as, "I can't talk right now Kim, I'm headed out the door to take Portia to school, I'll call you back later" would be perceived as a massive slight by Kim and interpreted as "She just doesn't want to talk to me.  She doesn't have time for me."

 

Kim apparently relapses/slips a lot.  

 

Sometimes people just look for a reason to feel slighted/neglected/abandoned/ignored because, in an addict's mind, it's the perfect excuse to "slip."

 

Not saying this is what Kim's doing but I wouldn't be surprised to find it to be true.  

As nasty as I've notice Kyle to be I don't think it's a far stretch to think that there are also times where Kyle just truly can't be bothered and I can also go as far as saying that it wouldn't even be because she had something pressing that she was in the middle of. I just get that vibe from Kyle that suggests that she doesn't really allow Kim to put her out until it falls on her doorstep in massive proportions. I'm more inclined to believe that for the real serious messes, the only reason Kyle stepped in was because her hands were tied and she had no choice because the situation was that serious. But night calls, with Kim just needing an ear, that interrupt her beauty sleep, or wine with Maurico? Nah, I really have this gut feeling that Kyle wasn't having any of those type of interruptions LOOOOONGGGGGG before this show ever started. I guess that's the reason why I do think there is something to Kim's position on Kyle and Kim's addiction doesn't negate that for me.

 

Granted that is definitely Kyle's right to treat the situation with Kim that way but it's such a far cry from the persona Kyle wants us to believe to be true.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[copacabana]

I strongly suspect in the world of Kim Richards, something as innocuous as, "I can't talk right now Kim, I'm headed out the door to take Portia to school, I'll call you back later" would be perceived as a massive slight by Kim and interpreted as "She just doesn't want to talk to me.  She doesn't have time for me."

 

Kim apparently relapses/slips a lot.  

 

Sometimes people just look for a reason to feel slighted/neglected/abandoned/ignored because, in an addict's mind, it's the perfect excuse to "slip."

 

Not saying this is what Kim's doing but I wouldn't be surprised to find it to be true.  

 

Love you and get the point but don't think it's true that Kim would be like that ALL the time ... not really.  I can totally see her being like some of time and the trick would be to get her to recognize when that happens and why.  And to help her diffuse that trigger because I do think she is triggered and that maybe her triggers take a long time to unload.  And that she probably doesn't see them coming because she's not too bright and hasn't been taught, smarts aside, how to help herself. 

 

I hate to say it, because I'm one myself and can't stand her, but she could very well be BiPolar 2, which means that she'd needed to do some research for herself and be able to identify her own triggers.  Doesn't mean she'd never have another episode, and prolly another substance using episode, but that she'd be able to identify for herself the beginning of an episode.

 

I do think that her admitting to the other women that she likes to stay home, not go out at all, and watch TV was honest.  I think she protects herself in this way.  I feel for her totally in that. 

[Persnickety1]

As nasty as I've notice Kyle to be I don't think it's a far stretch to think that there are also times where Kyle just truly can't be bothered and I can also go as far as saying that it wouldn't even be because she had something pressing that she was in the middle of. I just get that vibe from Kyle that suggests that she doesn't really allow Kim to put her out until it falls on her doorstep in massive proportions. I'm more inclined to believe that for those real serious messes the reason Kyle stepped in was because her hands were tied and she had no choice because the situation was that serious. But night calls that interrupt her beauty sleep, or wine with Maurico. Nah, I really have this gut feelings that Kyle wasn't having any of that LOOOOONGGGGGG before this show ever started. 

 

I absolutely agree.

 

My brother was an alcoholic who would call at the strangest hours, about as fucked up as we've seen Kim, and I'll be honest, there were times I would let that shit go straight to voicemail because I was otherwise busy with work or with my daughter and just didn't have the time nor emotional fortitude to deal with his drunken ramblings (which could go on for literally hours).

 

I did what I had to do to stay sane.  I'm sure Kyle has done the same.  

Love you and get the point but don't think it's true that Kim would be like that ALL the time ... not really.  I can totally see her being like some of time and the trick would be to get her to recognize when that happens and why.  And to help her diffuse that trigger because I do think she is triggered and that maybe her triggers take a long time to unload.  And that she probably doesn't see them coming because she's not too bright and hasn't been taught, smarts aside, how to help herself. 

 

I hate to say it, because I'm one myself and can't stand her, but she could very well be BiPolar 2, which means that she'd needed to do some research for herself and be able to identify her own triggers.  Doesn't mean she'd never have another episode, and prolly another substance using episode, but that she'd be able to identify for herself the beginning of an episode.

 

I do think that her admitting to the other women that she likes to stay home, not go out at all, and watch TV was honest.  I think she protects herself in this way.  I feel for her totally in that. 

 

Agreed.  She seems overly sensitive and defensive (almost to the point of paranoia) a lot of the time, and social isolation such as Kim described can really make that molehill into a mountain.

 

That's why I said I can totally see Kim misinterpreting any lack of instant gratification in having her needs met as being slighted.

 

In Kim's world, it's all about Kim, but in everyone else's world, it's about priorities and responsibilities.  I don't think Kim gets that.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by Persnickety1

[WireWrap]

 LOL As if he even exists...

He was shown the season Kim got out of rehab, 2 seasons ago. He came off as some type of new age life coach but he did tell Kim that Kyle had every right to be hesitant about Kim's new found sobriety and that Kim needed to earn her trust. He was introduced as her "life coach" not as her "program sponsor".

 

 

Support can be conditional and Kim mentioned that she's not expecting Kyle to be there every minute of every day but what I take from Kim is that even with this conditional support Kyle hasn't necessarily come through when Kim really needed it. I mean I'm not inclined to believe that Kim calls Kyle at 3am because she want's help making chicken salad with her hands. Even though Kim is an addict I can't automatically believe that what Kim outlines is always some untruth. I think Kyle isn't as present as she wants us to believe and I don't believe Kim is as unintrusive as she would like us to believe however what is believable is that there are certains truths from both sides. I'm inclined to believe Kyle is more concerned with losing face as the "supportive sister" and that's what really causing this strife between Kyle and Kim because Kim doesn't reinforce this "Kyle's always been there for me" façade. I think Kim would like to be able to air her grieves with Kyle- with Kyle but everytime you hear Kim try to outline that Kyle has hurt Kim Kyle turns it around and just talks over Kim. Ever notice that?

 

I feel bad that Kim is never, ever supposed to have anything negative to say about how she feels Kyle may have disappointed her EVER! I've noticed that since season one that Kim is always painted badly if she even suggests that Kyle hasn't always supported her when she needed it. Hey that's her sis, a sis that claims to all who can hear that she's been there, will be there and will always be there. Kyle's the one who up til now has made such an impossible claim and of course reinforced by Kim here and there which is why whenever Kim tries to express her issues or disappointments with Kyle it falls on deaf ears because well "How dare you Kim, that's a slap in the face to the one person that's ALWAYS had your back" and whenever that goes down all I ever hear is what I think is going on in Kim's head which is "Well, truth is no she hasn't" and I think it's fucked up that Kim has no choice but to play that script out even though that's not entirely how she feels.

 

Kyle herself has done a bit of an about face which I think is a CYA move now that it's out there that Kyle hasn't really been as present as in past years. I think she's finally taking the I can't be... I have a family.. route which... Bitch??!!! You should have come clean about long before now! Duh! It's your right Kyle but I bet now she's just gonna milk it even more. Cause now she's going to be on the receiving end of.. "No, no Kyle don't blame yourself OF COURSE you can't be there 24/7 to clean up big bad sisters messes all the time".. Ugghhhh, I can hardly wait. 

You have a point, that Kim seems needs to air her grievances with/about Kyle but is that wise?  Kyle then would want to defend herself and she would not be able to without revealing the crap Kim has put her and everyone in the family through during her long bouts of drug abuse. There are grievances on both sides that go back a long time. And up until this season, more viewers than not took up Kim's side against Kyle! More viewers blamed Kyle for "outing" Kim's addictions than even Kim's flat out drunk/high as a kite behavior caught on film did. I am not inclined to believe Kim because deflecting blame and responsibility are an addicts priority, second only to getting high/drunk. 

[copacabana]

I absolutely agree.

 

My brother was an alcoholic who would call at the strangest hours, about as fucked up as we've seen Kim, and I'll be honest, there were times I would let that shit go straight to voicemail because I was otherwise busy with work or with my daughter and just didn't have the time nor emotional fortitude to deal with his drunken ramblings (which could go on for literally hours).

 

I did what I had to do to stay sane.  I'm sure Kyle has done the same.  

 

Agreed.  She seems overly sensitive and defensive (almost to the point of paranoia) a lot of the time, and social isolation such as Kim described can really make that molehill into a mountain.

 

That's why I said I can totally see Kim misinterpreting any lack of instant gratification in having her needs met as being slighted.

 

In Kim's world, it's all about Kim, but in everyone else's world, it's about priorities and responsibilities.  I don't think Kim gets that.  

 

What I'm saying is that because mental illness may be involved not all time but some of time Kim may not be able to distinguish being reasonable and unreasonable or rational and irrational.  In the midst of an episode all bets are off.  It's like being in the midst of a fit while still walking and talking.  I don't think she knows what's happening JUST BEFORE she gets to the event or crisis.  I do think she knows full well what's occuring when she gets there and starts acting out.  She may not be able to control it once it starts happening in front of cameras, etc, but I do think she recalls enough to be responsible for it. 

 

What I don't think she comprehends is whatever happens at home before they pick her up in the limo and the cameras start rolling and they get their pound of flesh. 

 

The thing about using or episodes is that it happens hours and days before folks get inconvenienced.  Which is why Bravo gets to get away with it and why they are complicit and responsible.  This kind of massive dysfunction begins way way before.  

[FozzyBear]

As nasty as I've notice Kyle to be I don't think it's a far stretch to think that there are also times where Kyle just truly can't be bothered and I can also go as far as saying that it wouldn't even be because she had something pressing that she was in the middle of. I just get that vibe from Kyle that suggests that she doesn't really allow Kim to put her out until it falls on her doorstep in massive proportions. I'm more inclined to believe that for the real serious messes, the only reason Kyle stepped in was because her hands were tied and she had no choice because the situation was that serious. But night calls, with Kim just needing an ear, that interrupt her beauty sleep, or wine with Maurico? Nah, I really have this gut feeling that Kyle wasn't having any of those type of interruptions LOOOOONGGGGGG before this show ever started. I guess that's the reason why I do think there is something to Kim's position on Kyle and Kim's addiction doesn't negate that for me.

Granted that is definitely Kyle's right to treat the situation with Kim that way but it's such a far cry from the persona Kyle wants us to believe to be true.

Yeah, I've always been with you on that. It's mostly because I get a major "have my cake and eat it too" vibe from Kyle in a general sense. I think in some strange way Kyle thinks setting boundaries with Kim is a bad thing (why? I'm not sure. I think maybe they didn't grow up with a great sense of boundaries), but she wants them so I think she sets them in a fairly passive aggressive way (like telling Kim to call anytime day or night and then not answering the phone at certain times) rather than sitting Kim down and talking to her about what she needs from Kim. I just get this vibe from Kyle about all sorts of things. Like she wants what she wants, but she wants to bitch about it too. Homegirl is just a nag through and through.

[Persnickety1]

What I'm saying is that because mental illness may be involved not all time but some of time Kim may not be able to distinguish being reasonable and unreasonable or rational and irrational.  In the midst of an episode all bets are off.  It's like being in the midst of a fit while still walking and talking.  I don't think she knows what's happening JUST BEFORE she gets to the event or crisis.  I do think she knows full well what's occuring when she gets there and starts acting out.  She may not be able to control it once it starts happening in front of cameras, etc, but I do think she recalls enough to be responsible for it. 

 

What I don't think she comprehends is whatever happens at home before they pick her up in the limo and the cameras start rolling and they get their pound of flesh. 

 

The thing about using or episodes is that it happens hours and days before folks get inconvenienced.  Which is why Bravo gets to get away with it and why they are complicit and responsible.  This kind of massive dysfunction begins way way before.  

 

I try to avoid discussing any mental illness Kim (or any other housewife, really) may or may not have, because, besides social anxiety, it's never been addressed or even mentioned (to my recollection) on the show so I try to stick to what we've been made privy.    

 

She's admitted to addiction issues and they've been (lord knows) front and center on the show for sometime, so I'm more comfortable in sticking to that aspect of her obviously whacked out behavior.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by Persnickety1

[WireWrap]

As nasty as I've notice Kyle to be I don't think it's a far stretch to think that there are also times where Kyle just truly can't be bothered and I can also go as far as saying that it wouldn't even be because she had something pressing that she was in the middle of. I just get that vibe from Kyle that suggests that she doesn't really allow Kim to put her out until it falls on her doorstep in massive proportions. I'm more inclined to believe that for the real serious messes, the only reason Kyle stepped in was because her hands were tied and she had no choice because the situation was that serious. But night calls, with Kim just needing an ear, that interrupt her beauty sleep, or wine with Maurico? Nah, I really have this gut feeling that Kyle wasn't having any of those type of interruptions LOOOOONGGGGGG before this show ever started. I guess that's the reason why I do think there is something to Kim's position on Kyle and Kim's addiction doesn't negate that for me.

 

Granted that is definitely Kyle's right to treat the situation with Kim that way but it's such a far cry from the persona Kyle wants us to believe to be true.

When has Kyle ever said that she was the only person there for Kim or that she had to do everything for Kim? I haven't heard her make that claim. I also haven't heard Kim say that Kyle turned her away when she asked for help/support. I have read where Kim says that Kyle is busy with her own life/family and doesn't always have the time so she doesn't call her. I read that more as Kim realizing that Kyle can't be there every step she takes and so she chooses to utilize others in her life for help/support as well.

[copacabana]

Quite right, as the Brits say, and point taken. My bad and my projection. 

 

Though all of the dynamics conform to what occurs in an alcoholic relapse.  Which is what Kim opts to call it.  Stress that can occur days before. 

 

But, yeah, of course   And BiPolar 2, trust me, would be a total win for anyone everywhere. 

[walnutqueen]

And because I haven't even had a full cup of coffee yet so I'm not a pleasant person yet,

 

YET?!?  Oh, persnick, you are beginning to channel Kim now!  ;-D

 

Reading the last 10 pages of this thread has turned ME into a raging alcoholic.  You guys aren't any fun if I'm sober.  :-)

[jnymph]

Well, I guess we were all wrong about Brandi, huh?   She really is a comedic genius on par with Chelsea Handler; did you hear the way she oh-so hilariously put down the other women about their ages ? (Of course, y'all did ; ) )   She had to stay up all night thinking about that witty put-down.    

 

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.  

 

 

On another note:  Yo looked stunning at the BD party.   She really rocks it when she stops wearing white pants for a hot minute.    Her bod continues to impress me.

Edited February 19, 2015 by jnymph

[copacabana]

Just to clear, the only reason I would out myself like this would be to offer support and explanation.  Though I might be misguided and completely wrong, I'm certainly full of myself enough and more than enough to have offered it up. And explanation only for those writing here about anything. 

 

I do think on my own behalf that I latched onto something important in talking about female sexuality and the need for satisfaction.  As in health need.  I've hated all the talk about waxes, vaginas, blow jobs, small penises, and unsatisfactory sex -- to include having to substitute animal  sex for it -- on this show.  

 

The twin rod of like screwed up women and really skewed sex and genitalia talk is something that could be addressed in an academic text.  It's so fucked up. 

[WireWrap]

Love you and get the point but don't think it's true that Kim would be like that ALL the time ... not really.  I can totally see her being like some of time and the trick would be to get her to recognize when that happens and why.  And to help her diffuse that trigger because I do think she is triggered and that maybe her triggers take a long time to unload.  And that she probably doesn't see them coming because she's not too bright and hasn't been taught, smarts aside, how to help herself. 

 

I hate to say it, because I'm one myself and can't stand her, but she could very well be BiPolar 2, which means that she'd needed to do some research for herself and be able to identify her own triggers.  Doesn't mean she'd never have another episode, and prolly another substance using episode, but that she'd be able to identify for herself the beginning of an episode.

 

I do think that her admitting to the other women that she likes to stay home, not go out at all, and watch TV was honest.  I think she protects herself in this way.  I feel for her totally in that. going to happen IMO!

You really think Kim would take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror to see where she gets things wrong? The same woman that can not admit she scared the shit of Lisa R in the limo, the same woman that claimed her kids hearing Brandi say she did meth in the bathroom was the worst thing that ever happened to her kids....ever, the same woman that said Brandi caused her more pain saying the meth thing than outing Adrienne's use of a surrogate? This woman, who was supposedly sober when she said these thing? LOL That isn't going to happen.

[SFoster21]

Just to clear, the only reason I would out myself like this would be to offer support and explanation. Though I might be misguided and completely wrong, I'm certainly full of myself enough and more than enough to have offered it up. And explanation only for those writing here about anything.

I do think on my own behalf that I latched onto something important in talking about female sexuality and the need for satisfaction. As in health need. I've hated all the talk about waxes, vaginas, blow jobs, small penises, and unsatisfactory sex -- to include having to substitute animal sex for it -- on this show.

The twin rod of like screwed up women and really skewed sex and genitalia talk is something that could be addressed in an academic text. It's so fucked up.

What you said made sense generally, but both those girls are too far gone for even sexual satisfaction with a loving mate to rescue them.

Sex can make you crazy as well as calm you down. I mean, Brandi was stalking her last sexual partner.

[Avaleigh]

I think it's fucked up that Kim has no choice but to play that script out even though that's not entirely how she feels.

Sincerely Yours, I think you have pinpointed why many of the other women are frustrated when it comes to dealing with Kim. I feel like Kim is the one who wants people to stick to a script. People feel a certain way about Kim and her behavior but because it doesn't fit with Kim's image of herself people are expected to stifle their own feelings and opinions so they can stick to the script of Kim being "sober". The script is in Kim's head and she wants people to follow it even when Kim starts pretending that the other script of basic manners and common sense doesn't exist or somehow doesn't apply to her.

 

As for Kyle supposedly trying to take credit for being there even when she's not, I disagree that this is what she's upset over. Brandi is making it seem like Kyle is never there for Kim. Brandi is claiming that Kyle only wants to be there for Kim when there are cameras around even though there's years worth of history that contradicts this. Kyle was there for Kim before the show and she'll more than likely be there for her after the show. Brandi claims that Kyle has been there "zero" for Kim. Brandi has said more than once that she thinks the sisters hate each other when both sisters say the opposite. I don't see why there's any reason to believe Brandi when she says that she's been there for Kim in the past six months while Kyle hasn't. Brandi takes a grain of truth and blows it up beyond all recognition. She likes to do that.

The real bottom for both Richards sisters would be to get fired from this show.  Unfortunately for them and for us I don't see that happening. 

I don't see what Kyle has done to deserve to get fired though. Kim and Brandi I get it but Kyle seems like she has the lifestyle that makes sense to feature on a show like this. 

 

I was surprised Kyle didn't mention she'd been in "The Watcher in the Woods" with Bette Davis. I'll bet she didn't mess with Bette's wig. Or anything else.

I wonder why Kim didn't play the older blonde sister of Kyle's character in this film? It was a Disney film and it even had the same director from Escape to Witch Mountain IIRC. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Avaleigh

[copacabana]

What you said made sense generally, but both those girls are too far gone for even sexual satisfaction with a loving mate to rescue them.

Sex can make you crazy as well as calm you down. I mean, Brandi was stalking her last sexual partner.

 

I have to disagree.  It's never too late to claim recovery and sexual satisfaction and healing.  Men do it all the time and it happens for them.  It does also happen for us and we should claim it.  If it were to happen for these two it would be within their realm of rights.  But beyond all that lingo, well, yeah LOL because you know.  

[copacabana]

You really think Kim would take a long, hard, honest look in the mirror to see where she gets things wrong? The same woman that can not admit she scared the shit of Lisa R in the limo, the same woman that claimed her kids hearing Brandi say she did meth in the bathroom was the worst thing that ever happened to her kids....ever, the same woman that said Brandi caused her more pain saying the meth thing than outing Adrienne's use of a surrogate? This woman, who was supposedly sober when she said these thing? LOL That isn't going to happen.

What I'm saying is that a good hard look at what triggers her behaviors -- that shit can take years to figure out -- coupled with some good hard loving relationship thrusts would probably have saved this woman's sanity and life.  Yeah. 

 

And that I totally believe that Bravo's tendency to be obsessive about our pubic hair, the state of our genitalia, our fondness for blow jobs, debatable, and most everything else about female sexuality -- including Andy Cohen's entire after show -- shouldn't make us have to look into any mirror to ask any questions really unless we feel like it. 

[copacabana]

And that Yolanda's house kitchen and spa set up are amazing.  And I love her yoga clothes and her chugging down, Dutch frau style of two tons of pills, because Yolanda and because Pump and awesome EastEnders party for Leeza really.  Because Leeza when she acts like an idiot and calls other chicks bitches is just awesome. 

[izabella]

Not to throw a grenade into the room, but I do think that if both Kim and Brandi were to find a good man, woman, animal, vegetable or mineral capable of satisfying them sexually and emotionally at some basic level, they would be vastly helped in keeping themselves together. It is possible to live without intercourse and to have a great celibate life either by circumstance or by choice but it's also true that it's just flat out terrific for a woman of a certain age to have that kind of pleasure in her life if she wants it.  Unfortunately, all their LA-based Bravo shenanigans make finding anyone capable of serving them in that way nearly impossible.   If Kim and Brandi both could find someone to seriously just take them there on a semi-regular basis their need for prolonged confrontation-aggressive blowouts-and release into sobbing, melting wrecks might lessen. And I'm not talking about Kim's Ken or Brandi's various for hire guys.  Brandi's basic propositioning for money of the young moving guy was one of our more shocking moments on camera.   I mean a real man interested in being with either of these two women in just that way on a regular basis for all the right reasons = as in gold. 

 

What you're describing requires a healthy man and healthy relationship, neither of which would either Brandi or Kim be able to attract or keep because they themselves are unhealthy. 

 

I think had Kim acknowledge her behavior to Lisa R and Eileen then they would have let Kim's "slip" slide! IMO, what is raising red flags is that Kim does not recognize she did anything wrong, not just in taking meds prescribed for someone else but her ugly/spacy behavior at Eileen's home and again at the mixer. Most people would say, "I am so sorry that I behaved that way" I am sorry you had to witness that" "I am sorry I ruined your event/night", showing that they were aware of what they did but Kim refuses to do so. It is not an apology they want, but an acknowledgement that Kim is aware of what she did and takes corrective measures, gets back on that sobriety wagon. She is doing neither as far as they or we can see.

 

Kim had a perfect opportunity to defuse everything while talking with the ladies in the kitchen.  She could have turned to LisaR and said, "OMG, I didn't realize how awful it must have been for you in that limo with me while I was on that pain pill, and I'm sorry I put you through that."  "Eileen, I shouldn't have come to your poker party under the circumstances, because I really behaved badly at the poker table."  "Kyle, I wasn't thinking clearly at Eileen's, and I'm sorry I sniped at you over the poker table, and invited Brandi to your party."

 

Instead, she focused on how hard her life was, y'all.

[izabella]

I don't see why there's any reason to believe Brandi when she says that she's been there for Kim in the past six months while Kyle hasn't. Brandi takes a grain of truth and blows it up beyond all recognition. She likes to do that.

 

I would change that to just, "I don't see why there's any reason to believe Brandi when she says anything."

[Higgins]

I try to avoid discussing any mental illness Kim (or any other housewife, really) may or may not have, because, besides social anxiety, it's never been addressed or even mentioned (to my recollection) on the show so I try to stick to what we've been made privy.    

 

She's admitted to addiction issues and they've been (lord knows) front and center on the show for sometime, so I'm more comfortable in sticking to that aspect of her obviously whacked out behavior.  

But both of those are caused by a mental illness or brain chemistry disorder. She has claimed those mental health issues. They, of course, can be very disabling to functional capability. In fact, they often go together.

[WireWrap]

What I'm saying is that a good hard look at what triggers her behaviors -- that shit can take years to figure out -- coupled with some good hard loving relationship thrusts would probably have saved this woman's sanity and life.  Yeah. 

 

And that I totally believe that Bravo's tendency to be obsessive about our pubic hair, the state of our genitalia, our fondness for blow jobs, debatable, and most everything else about female sexuality -- including Andy Cohen's entire after show -- shouldn't make us have to look into any mirror to ask any questions really unless we feel like it. 

LOL, I understood what you were saying and I think for most people that would work but we are talking about Kim. Any chance to get Kim to do that type of long term, deep work has long passed.

 

I also think Kim's and Brandi's desperation scares off most men willing to be in a relationship with someone, not to mention their need/demand to be first and foremost at all times day/night. Big insecurities can be a very big turn off in a relationship as well.

 

I have always felt that Andy really dislikes women in general, as people not just sexually.

[copacabana]

What you're describing requires a healthy man and healthy relationship, neither of which would either Brandi or Kim be able to attract or keep because they themselves are unhealthy. 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct and not impossible for either of them if this what they want and I believe they lie when they say they don't want it.  Although the definition of health in a mate tends to decrease but not make the search hopeless. 

 

There will never be an honest conversation about what it is to look for a real sexual companion beyond the age of 40 on this show ever. Good thing we're not looking for it here?

Edited February 19, 2015 by copacabana

[WireWrap]

But both of those are caused by a mental illness or brain chemistry disorder. She has claimed those mental health issues. They, of course, can be very disabling to functional capability. In fact, they often go together.

Whether Kim's mental health issues came before she started abusing drugs or as a result of her addictions does not matter at this point. Kim refuses to do anything about her mental health problems or her addictions. She is unwilling to do the long term, hard work either require to become healthy for life. Kim wants what Kim wants her way and no one else is allowed to say differently to her.

[copacabana]

LOL, I understood what you were saying and I think for most people that would work but we are talking about Kim. Any chance to get Kim to do that type of long term, deep work has long passed.

 

I also think Kim's and Brandi's desperation scares off most men willing to be in a relationship with someone, not to mention their need/demand to be first and foremost at all times day/night. Big insecurities can be a very big turn off in a relationship as well.

 

I have always felt that Andy really dislikes women in general, as people not just sexually.

 

Well, yeah, that's exactly what I said.  And I do apologize if it wasn't clear!

[TattleTeeny]

I think her point about Kyle was that she's doesn't look to Kyle every part of every day so Kyle should be able to make time for her when she does need her because you know that's what sisters are for.. No? I mean Kyle is the one that wants to wear the cloak of honor and yet we hear that she's not necessarily available to Kim which of course do you Kyle I don't really give a fuck but being that a lot of the bullshit revolves around Kyle being pissed that she's being painted as a bad sister who isn't there for Kim then I do think it's relevant that Kyle is too busy for Kim. Kyle can't have her cake and eat it to. She is either unavailable which is acceptable or she's a present sister for when Kim needs support.

 

Even if Kim does not expect Kyle to be at her beck and call daily, how is Kyle supposed to know when Kim will spontaneously need her sisterly services? Like, if I called my sister right now and said, "Emergency--get here now!" and she has her phone off because she's in a meeting or at home with a cold or driving...well, what a bitchy bad sister she is, I guess! 

There is no proof that Kim reached out to Kyle, and Kyle was all, "Wellllllllll...nope. I'm lounging poolside right now. Shove it." And I think if anyone gets the greedy cake analogy, it's Kim...who doesn't want to be viewed as an addict but does want to do all the addict things she can cram into a day and/or her body. This whole "too busy" argument is silly, IMO, when no one here knows how unavailable Kyle is. Having other priorities sometimes does not mean that a person completely doesn't care about whatever other thing is not a priority at that very second. 

And now that I think about it, what exactly is the "cake" in Kyle's situation? In what world is a drug-addled albatross "cake"?

Edited February 19, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[Higgins]

Whether Kim's mental health issues came before she started abusing drugs or as a result of her addictions does not matter at this point. Kim refuses to do anything about her mental health problems or her addictions. She is unwilling to do the long term, hard work either require to become healthy for life. Kim wants what Kim wants her way and no one else is allowed to say differently to her.

Of course it does. It's never too late. She is only 50 years old. We have no idea why she does or doesn't do what you think she should. Do you know that 75% of people just eventually quit on their own with no treatment. That is compared to a 3%-8%  success rate at 5 years with institutional rehab using a 12 step type program. 

Edited February 19, 2015 by Higgins

[copacabana]

I'm trying to cook a meal and remembering what it was to be so fucked up on anything and much less remember a good hard roll in the hay and having to laugh all over again.  Would that  the show were even half as good as anything one brings to it.  

 

That said, I'm still an asshole, Kim is a fool in any universe, and good sex is still something to be wished for in the most devoted way regardless of any grooming preferences. 

[renatae]

I've been thinking over the  "bullying" Brandi thing, and, even though I did feel badly for her at certain points, there was no concerted effort to make her feel bad at the party.

 

Nobody said anything snarky to her that we could see when the party first started. Mohamed was telling everyone where to be and she sat there with this "WTF" lost child look on her face - the same one she wore at varying points in the party, often with no obvious reason. Lisa came in, and yes, she made a jab by saying "How did you make the cut?" but she was also one of the first people Lisa greeted. Lisa had a genuine smile on her face and took Brandi's hands in hers. When they sat down, Brandi excused herself and Lisa made the "joke" toast, but Brandi wasn't even there.

 

Kyle told Ken it looked as though he had forgiven Brandi, but he said he didn't like to to leave anybody out. Certainly not the most tactful exchange, but I don't think Kyle could have predicted Ken's response. Lisa went and sat next to Brandi and the discussion led to Brandi singing. Although I cringed at that, Brandi seemed to be up for it, and everyone but Kyle seemed to be laughing along with Brandi and many were clapping.

 

Brandi got all snarky when the other women were singing together, but it's not as though anyone was deliberately leaving her out. She could have joined in. But, you know, as she said, she wasn't about to join in with the "menopause mamas." Later, she and LisaR were running off with the flowers and Lisa was chasing them, laughing. Then, at the end of the scene, Brandi is looking peeved, because, apparently, she thought LisaR was getting most of LisaV's attention. Or something.

 

Yes, between Lisa, Ken, and Kyle, there were some awkward moments. But there were no "STFU" comments, no direct attacks, no shunning, just Lisa being Lisa, Ken still smarting, and Kyle being quite restrained under the circumstances. All three of these people have good reason to be upset with Brandi, and I don't feel they made any sort of concerted effort to upset her. There was a bunch of random stuff. Brandi is fond of saying what a "truth cannon" she is and how you have to take her for what she is, no excuses, blah, blah, blah. Well, Lisa loves her little snarky tidbits, and that's who SHE is. If Brandi doesn't like it, she doesn't need to keep bidding to get back into the fold.

Edited February 19, 2015 by renatae

[Umbelina]

I'm reminded of THE PRINCE OF TIDES.  Nick Nolte was the brother who managed to appear normal, even while hiding a deep, dark, horrifying secret that was torturing him and torturing his sister, who tried to commit suicide a few times.  IIRC, the other brother had died and the mother wasn't talking, but they'd been through a horrible event many years before and because no one would say it out loud, it continued to fuck with them.  

 

Good analogy, and I completely agree.  I've thought this since season one.  Until they "get real" and get that mother and their past off that false pedastal, I don't see how they can really heal.  That's not to blame their mother, it's to look at the situation in a real way, to be honest about it, and to appreciate her AS SHE WAS, the good and bad, love and forgiveness, but no more denial or canonization. 

 

I think we're on a ride with Kyle and Kim and Kathy and the other women get pulled into the Triple-K vortex and spun out again, damaged or slightly mauled; either smarter for it or thinking they somehow didn't do it right and ready to fall in again.  We've heard from many sources and history with other Hollywood kids, that Kim was the breadwinner for her sometimes single mother of three.  She supported her family and I don't care how together a kid is, they're still a kid and that has long-lasting repercussions.  So many of them don't survive at all.  That Kim has an addiction problem? Part and parcel of Hollywood's legacy for child stars.

Agree, and great image!

 

But Kyle is also in that realm, though not as focused on.  She lived a tangential life, with Kim the star, Kim the focus, Kim the "wanted" one.  She talks up her own career, which doesn't have support if you look at her imdb listing, but over all of that, IMO she is just as fucked up as Kim.  She's not some savior on the outside, she's another victim.  Where I have a problem with her is when she puts on the behavior of Big Kathy and uses Kim.  And she does USE Kim.  The first overt example of this, that shocked a lot of us, I think, was in the back of the limo end of S1.  Saying Kyle is only there for Kim when they're shooting the show is just more of the same BK manner.  Kyle is probably getting whiplash going back and forth between "mothering" Kim and being her sister … imagine Faye Dunaway in CHINATOWN … "My daughter … my sister … my daughter."  Kyle is in need of therapy; don't know if she's gotten any, just as much as Kim. 

Agree again, and she's once again "using" Kim, as that is pretty much her only storyline this season.  I get that Kim's issues have been a pain in the ass for Kyle, but to parade them out, while cameras are running, to make yourself "the good daughter" is just whack to me. 

 

As I've said, maybe Kyle does need to cut Kim off.  That would probably be the best (if drastic) thing for both of them.  Just be honest about it.  "I've had enough.  I can't do this anymore.  It's not helping you, and it's hurting me.  Here are some contacts for you.  I'm done until you get real help.  I love you and good luck."  Instead we get this whole martyr routine and Kyle making everything as public as possible.

 

Kathy did what she could and escaped as soon as she was able.  But she's part of it.  She's the one who knows the truth but "proves" it doesn't need to affect them, because damn! look at her life! Look at her success!  Kyle probably feels she's not part of the damage because she has those times with her family and Mauricio. 

Kathy's reportedly had plenty of issues herself over the years, I'm not sure she escaped completely from all of this, but at least she wasn't living at home when mom brought the mobster home.  Her daughter Paris was Big Kathy's favorite, and I think BK's influence is all over Paris' career. 

 

Until one or all of them are willing to own up to Big Kathy's affect for what it really was and get therapy, they will never recover in a meaningful way.  Right now I don't even see evidence that they want to recover.  Kyle clings to the idea that she's normal and nursing an addict sister as some sort of weight around her neck, instead of seeing that they are all mutually fucked up and perpetuating the cycle.  Kim might be closest to saying it out loud to a therapist, because she's the one who earned all that money that was used and stolen from her just as her childhood was.

Kim may want to, she knows she's still got problems, can't sleep, the addiction to "anything that takes me out of being me and makes me feel confident and OK" is still there, obviously.  I don't think she really can get better with Kyle in her life, unless Kyle participated in honest therapy with her to resolve their childhood issues.  It would probably be difficult, but in the end, amazing for both of them.

 

I don't blame Brandi for being pulled into the Richard Sisters Twisted Hell.  Brandi comes from a different fucked up reality:  a scorned wife.  For all that the other women constantly use her name as an adjective, she is the only single woman besides Kim -- and Kim never could have been successfully married because her SO was always her mother -- and so Brandi has a different reality.  Every other woman can come home to someone who 100% supports them and loves them regardless, who will stick when the show is over.  Brandi did something really brave when she recognized that she was Lisa's pawn and called it quits.  But she got fucked over because this is not real life, after all, it's a TV show.  All Lisa had to do is what someone up thread said, continue to say the sky was purple until the other women caved and joined in "the sky is purple" and tagged on "and Brandi was the bitch who tried to destroy you" … it's not true.  But Lisa knows sticking to the narrative will gain her a "win" …  She's wrong, though, I think, because I see the backlash against her growing.

Hmm, I think Lisa has a right to be pissed at all of them after last season.  I was really disappointed her her this episode, because the low blows seemed beneath her. 

 

I think Bravo paid PUMP money to use the restaurant for Lisa's shoot, at least some costs, and Ken is a business man before almost all else.  So they added in "if we're gonna pay for all this, you have to include Brandi."   I do think she had reason to be insulted because his delivery was bald.  If I wanted to tell someone to behave, I wouldn't put it so plainly.  I'd say "please try to not let anyone make you upset.  I want the focus to be Lisa.  I know that there's history between all of you and issues at the moment, but if we could set those aside just for the party, I'd appreciate it" … there.  Grace.  No insult.  But he wasn't in the mood, IMO because Bravo forced his hand.

Agree!  Ken is still really pissed about the false accusations hurled at him last year.  I bet it was very difficult to invite Yolanda too, but why didn't Bravo show that one?  The woman who accused him of assaulting her!  I don't think he's very fond of Kyle either, he rolled his eyes earlier this season when Lisa was meeting her.  Why did Bravo ONLY show the invitation to Brandi?  Maybe Ken just sent a card to the others and Bravo told him they really wanted him to make the call to Brandi, and they'd let him skip the others if he'd do that? 

 

And given that Ken invited her, I thought it was crass 100% for Kyle or even Lisa to say out loud "why is Brandi here?" and for Kyle to compound it by saying it in a TH interview.  But no one in this group is classy.  If Lisa doesn't say it to their face, she says it OFTEN and clearly in her TH interviews.   Yolanda is the classiest, but even she can err in her interviews.

 

Agree again, and it bruised my general regard for Lisa.

 

Lisa Lips Rinna is probably the one of the two new girls who will continue on, because she is so entertaining. 

 

Most of that is at Kim and Brandi's expense though, we shall see if she brings anything other than gossiping to this show.  I don't believe she's sincere about Kim, if she was, she'd quit showing off, and do her intervention or whatever WITHOUT the cameras.  I get a "look at me!" vibe from Lipsa, "I'm so cool, the only one to call it as it is and demand action!"  I also think she's knowingly or unknowingly, just Kyle's mouthpiece this season.   "According to virtually every religious and ethical tradition, meaningful charity does not draw attention to the giver, and dignified charity does not draw attention to the recipient."

 

Eileen is a boring version of Brandi.  Thinking she has something useful to offer to FIX problems, willing to speak up when all that will get her is TH backlash, and sometimes just south of the borderline towards revealing too much.  If she was a drinker, she could be Brandi.  But Eileen has wealth, a job she can count on (or two or three), an Emmy, and most importantly: a husband who has name recognition, too.

Sooner or later Bravo will tear off her facade and we'll see the real Eileen.  Not this season, but if she stays, and I think she will, since she's getting paid the most, it will happen.  We'll see how that marriage stands up to RHBH fans after she's been around for a while.  I love her clothes and general "Lisa-like" manner though, but she hasn't been put under any pressure or scrutiny.  Yet.