All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Dr.OO7]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:16 AM, doodlebug said:

Carol was really not a very nice person, it's hard to see how she was so popular with her coworkers.

I don't think that's true either. She had a handful of less-than-stellar moments, like everyone, but she didn't consistently treat people like crap the way Kerry and Romano almost always did.

[doodlebug]

22 hours ago, Camille said:

I don't think that's true either. She had a handful of less-than-stellar moments, like everyone, but she didn't consistently treat people like crap the way Kerry and Romano almost always did.

The difference was that we were supposed to think that Romano and Kerry were awful.  Carol was supposed to be admirable and likable.

[Growsonwalls]

I have no idea how true this is but there was scuttlebutt that Julianna Marguiles had trouble getting along with female co-workers so over time she shot less scenes with them. It kind of makes sense how in Season 6 it's like the only people she talked to were Luka and Mark. Also given Marguiles track record in The Good Wife this rumor rings true. 

[readster]

6 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I have no idea how true this is but there was scuttlebutt that Julianna Marguiles had trouble getting along with female co-workers so over time she shot less scenes with them. It kind of makes sense how in Season 6 it's like the only people she talked to were Luka and Mark. Also given Marguiles track record in The Good Wife this rumor rings true. 

Yes, it seems to be true. Many want to say: "Well, you weren't there." However, when you look at a constant history of this, it makes plenty of sense. 

[Hiyo]

I dunno, by season 6, it felt like most of the cast were splintered off into their own cliques, so it isn’t exactly a smoking gun to me. That era just didn’t have the varied group interactions of the earlier seasons.

 

I always thought JM problems On The Good Wife was with one particular actress on the set, son’t really remember hearing stories about issues with the other actresses.

[Dr.OO7]

There's a YouTube channel called "ER", officially devoted to posting favorite clips from the show:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmFOrXia93QJEU2WwbL4irQ

They update very regularly. So far, there's a wealth of clips for roughly 2/3 of the seasons.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Camille said:

There's a YouTube channel called "ER", officially devoted to posting favorite clips from the show:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmFOrXia93QJEU2WwbL4irQ

They update very regularly. So far, there's a wealth of clips for roughly 2/3 of the seasons.

Yeah, I already watched Carol's non-wedding reception (tequila!) and the Carter/Lucy stabbing. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 8/8/2020 at 5:03 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I already watched Carol's non-wedding reception (tequila!

They just posted the clip where Tag jilts her after getting her to admit that she doesn't love him the way he does her. 

I'm sure I've posted this before, but it really says something for the show's quality that it could make you feel sorry for a disposable love interest you're not really supposed to care about.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Camille

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Camille said:

I'm sure I've posted this before, but it really says something for the show's quality that it could make you feel sorry for a disposable love interest you're not really supposed to care about.

Carol really was one lucky woman. As much as Doug was her soulmate, Tag was also quite easy on the eyes and seemed like a good guy overall.

[debraran]

I find ER like MASH and other quality shows, you can pick up most of them for a watch (especially early ones) and it's so good. I just watched the one with Carter reading to the dying teacher and Benton is angry is he spending so much time with him. Carter's facial expressions and body language say more than even his words and it's so touching. So many of those moments.

Even though Carol losing Tatiana was foreseen before it happened (a slow train wreck) I loved the mature scene with Doug when she was crying and he took her home. Maturity wasn't his strong point but he rose to the occasion there. I understood the decision since she really took a high percentage of drugs and should have died. In TV land, you are fixed in 9 months but usually not the case.

I also found Benton always missing his Mom's visits understandable but also odd. His family acted like he worked 9-5 at a bank and even Jeanne stays quiet when he said he was held up in surgery and missed Mom's birthday. Sure he could make himself get out on time sometimes but I don't know many ER docs or surgical doctors that ever made things on time. Watching it again it just seemed odd to get the cold shoulder from his family or maybe he didn't try hard enough to communicate. I remember many children at my kids school who had parents who were doctors at a hospital sighing because half their play or party would be over before they arrived out of breath. Sure some parents didn't care that much but some did but can't tell the head of their department they are late for a camp play if he's talking about something important.

I find it refreshing to pick up a favorite episode now and again and see how the quality is still not matched in the earlier show.

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, debraran said:

I find ER like MASH and other quality shows, you can pick up most of them for a watch (especially early ones) and it's so good. I just watched the one with Carter reading to the dying teacher and Benton is angry is he spending so much time with him. Carter's facial expressions and body language say more than even his words and it's so touching. So many of those moments.

Even though Carol losing Tatiana was foreseen before it happened (a slow train wreck) I loved the mature scene with Doug when she was crying and he took her home. Maturity wasn't his strong point but he rose to the occasion there. I understood the decision since she really took a high percentage of drugs and should have died. In TV land, you are fixed in 9 months but usually not the case.

I also found Benton always missing his Mom's visits understandable but also odd. His family acted like he worked 9-5 at a bank and even Jeanne stays quiet when he said he was held up in surgery and missed Mom's birthday. Sure he could make himself get out on time sometimes but I don't know many ER docs or surgical doctors that ever made things on time. Watching it again it just seemed odd to get the cold shoulder from his family or maybe he didn't try hard enough to communicate. I remember many children at my kids school who had parents who were doctors at a hospital sighing because half their play or party would be over before they arrived out of breath. Sure some parents didn't care that much but some did but can't tell the head of their department they are late for a camp play if he's talking about something important.

I find it refreshing to pick up a favorite episode now and again and see how the quality is still not matched in the earlier show.

Having been a resident once myself, I can tell you that Benton would have had very little control over his schedule, especially in that era.  Nowadays, there are laws and rules about hours worked and residents in training are used to working in shifts and handing off when the clock strikes.  Back then, a resident who chose to leave rather than hang around and monitor their critical postop or participate in the interesting surgical case, would be looked on as a slacker, a poor sport and that would often be reflected in his or her evaluations and eventually could interfere with getting an attending job or a fellowship.

I guess we were supposed to see how big a step Benton was taking away from his family in becoming a surgeon.  His family had always been hardworking blue-collar folk and they didn't understand that he didn't have the ability to leave anytime he wanted.  I was always amazed when we saw him leaving during the day to talk to Jackie or see Carla; where I trained, we didn't have 5 minutes to ourselves all day long and there was no way we could leave the hospital.  It was a big deal to get to spend more than 15 minutes eating lunch.

ETA:  I once added up the hours I was physically present in the hospital during residency.  During an easy week when I didn't have any weekend call, I was there around 100 hours.  If I had weekend call, it was 120+.  Not a lot of free time.  Since then, laws have changed and residents aren't supposed to work more than 80 hours a week.

Edited August 19, 2020 by doodlebug

[txhorns79]

AV Club did an interview with John Leguizamo, and he had this to say about ER:

Quote

JL: What a well-oiled machine. That was one of the great times, because David Zabel and the whole writing crew on that was so tight. They were so welcoming and allowed me to have input. I was supposed to be the new doctor to take over for George Clooney, and become the head doctor until the end. But I came from doing theater and movies where you give 300 percent. And working 16 hours a day, I was so burnt out after the first few episodes that I was like, “I think I’m going to go mental. I can’t keep up. I can’t keep going at this pace.” And so I resigned. It was the first time I resigned from anything, I quit anything. But it was so demanding, such hard work. Now I know why they get those big dollars, because that shit is brutal.

I was just so used to giving so much of myself, and I was giving it to them all. And it was just like, “Wow, this is brutal, man.” I just had no life. You’re up there so early. Those guys were so hard, man. You’re up there, like, at 5 a.m. talking to the real doctors, who are there to talk you through your dialogue to explain it to you—because it’s all real operations and real cases, and you have to know it and understand it. And then they have to show you how to do the operation so you don’t look like a moron.

And then, they shoot 80 pages for 50 minutes, where everybody else shoots 50 pages for 50 minutes. So you’re having to learn 30 extra pages of dialogue. And you have to have it verbatim because they shoot oners most of the time. And you have to talk fast as fuck. It was tough, man. That was the toughest thing I’ve ever done. I was like, “Thank you for this experience. I didn’t know that it could be this, this rough.” It made me appreciate going back into independent film. I was like, “Oh, this is so easy. Ten pages a day. What a luxury.”

 

I think he was on the show a number of years after Clooney left, so I don't know that I believe he was hired as a replacement for him.  I recall his storyline and it was almost like his character was on another show at times.   

[debraran]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

AV Club did an interview with John Leguizamo, and he had this to say about ER:

I think he was on the show a number of years after Clooney left, so I don't know that I believe he was hired as a replacement for him.  I recall his storyline and it was almost like his character was on another show at times.   

This article says

Clemente first appeared "Wake Up" as a new attending physician from Newark, New Jersey to replace Dr. Susan Lewis and attempts to introduce modern equipment and diagnostics to the ER.

On his first day at County, Clemente poses as a patient which causes confusion and some irritation from doctors Abby Lockhart, Archie Morris, Gregory Pratt and especially Luka Kovač.

I don't remember him as well as other characters but the first 6 years are more cemented in my mind since I've seen them more often. I hated what they did at the end of the show with characters and the "jump the shark" moments. I am glad I did watch the last few years though on Hulu a few years ago because there were some good shows interwoven in there and helped fill in some gaps when I watched on and off at that time.

[Birdie]

Pop is back in the early years of ER now, which I enjoy a lot more than later seasons.

The later seasons got immature and ridiculous (Sam acting like a petulant teen throwing things at Luka in a trauma or making a big dramatic show of kissing Tony and being all “you caught me! He’s my boyfriend!” And don’t even get me started on Neela and those other surgeons roller blading and slapping pucks into overturned carts in crowded hallways with patients looking on in a waiting room 🙄). There was brief horseplay in earlier seasons, but nothing like that. 

I never saw the point of Clemente; I feel by that time it was just a revolving door of people coming for a few episodes and leaving into the ether.

I wish Alan Alda would have had a longer time on the show. I also wish they’d kept Tag even after the non-marriage.

Re: JM not getting along with female costars - didn’t the actress who played nurse Wendy accuse JM, Wyle, Clooney, and Edwards of making racist comments about her Or something? Not saying it’s true or not, just that I seem to remember reading it in an article after her death.

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Birdie said:

Pop is back in the early years of ER now, which I enjoy a lot more than later seasons.

The later seasons got immature and ridiculous (Sam acting like a petulant teen throwing things at Luka in a trauma or making a big dramatic show of kissing Tony and being all “you caught me! He’s my boyfriend!” And don’t even get me started on Neela and those other surgeons roller blading and slapping pucks into overturned carts in crowded hallways with patients looking on in a waiting room 🙄). There was brief horseplay in earlier seasons, but nothing like that. 

I never saw the point of Clemente; I feel by that time it was just a revolving door of people coming for a few episodes and leaving into the ether.

I wish Alan Alda would have had a longer time on the show. I also wish they’d kept Tag even after the non-marriage.

Re: JM not getting along with female costars - didn’t the actress who played nurse Wendy accuse JM, Wyle, Clooney, and Edwards of making racist comments about her Or something? Not saying it’s true or not, just that I seem to remember reading it in an article after her death.

The actress who played Wendy made accusations about mistreatment on the set of ER, but I don't think anyone else ever corroborated what she said or had complaints in the same vein.  She said that she complained to producers about being mistreated and that GC then had her 'blacklisted' and she couldn't get another job.  GC denied it.   She also had a long history of mental illness, including bipolar disorder, and, as you probably know, was killed by police when they went to her house to check on her and she pointed a gun at them.  So very sad.

I don't know that she accused Edwards of anything specific, mostly she posted on Twitter that she received daily sexual and racial harassment on set and that GC, along with the producers, made sure she never got another job.  GC replied that he was not part of any discussion of her with TPTB, he did not know about her complaint and that he was not a writer or producer on the show and had nothing to do with casting, either.  He said that if someone told her he was involved in derailing her career, that person was lying.  He also said he took her at her word that she was harassed and blacklisted; but that he was not involved.

NW was known to have been pretty rude to Kelly Martin when she joined the show.  He didn't like the casting and didn't want Carter and Lucy to hook up.  KM has talked about it and NW, after the series ended, publicly admitted that he treated her badly and he felt sorry for how he behaved.

[Driad]

Remember Bob?  I was disappointed that we didn't find out what happened after she outed herself as a surgeon.

I was reminded of Bob by Transplant, a new (to the US) drama about a Syrian surgeon who has been doing lower-paid work in Canada.  

[WendyCR72]

15 minutes ago, Driad said:

Remember Bob?  I was disappointed that we didn't find out what happened after she outed herself as a surgeon.

I was reminded of Bob by Transplant, a new (to the US) drama about a Syrian surgeon who has been doing lower-paid work in Canada.  

Especially since, if I recall, she went poof right after the heroic save using her surgeon skills and after Carter promised to help her study for exams here.

[ShortyMac]

20 minutes ago, Driad said:

Remember Bob?  I was disappointed that we didn't find out what happened after she outed herself as a surgeon.

I was reminded of Bob by Transplant, a new (to the US) drama about a Syrian surgeon who has been doing lower-paid work in Canada.  

I am watching the Lifetime medical drama, Strong Medicine, and Dr. Campbell, played by Patricia Richardson, the mom on Home Improvement, her nanny was a doctor in Russia who is hoping to get re-certified. She needs help with medical terminology in English. 

I immediately thought of Transplant, as well.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, I really hoped Bob would turn up again, at least in the last couple of wrap up episodes.

I find it amazing that we're all still discussing this show, after it ended so long ago. 

[debraran]

8 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Yes, I really hoped Bob would turn up again, at least in the last couple of wrap up episodes.

I find it amazing that we're all still discussing this show, after it ended so long ago. 

The show is still so bingeable. It has been listed as one of the top 10 timeless shows that way for the last few years on many sites. I don't even notice the lack of cell phones and almost find it annoying to see the technology in shows like New Amsterdam because as many patients can attest too, they make the doctor/provider look at the screen more than them. I did like how on New Amsterdam they showed how that hurts and helps.

I'm re-watching again when I'm tired or until some new shows come out. I'm getting the point when things started to bother me (Carla pregnant, Jeanne being chased by hot doc, etc) but I still love it. Before this point, I really can't find anything wrong that I personally dislike. The character development, the realism, the acting, was excellent. I feel in shows like MASH, that were on a long time, new blood was minimal and flowed well but in shows like ER, sometimes you get too many and they don't always click. You wonder with all the excellent scripts, who thought Cleo was the best new addition or who though killing someone with a helicopter was worthy of a show like ER?

That said, I wish there were more shows with the quality of ER. No way does New Amsterdam or Chicago Hope even come remotely close.

Edited September 16, 2020 by debraran

[Birdie]

Oh, yes, Bob! I liked her and wish she’d stayed. And Gant.

Never watched Chicago Med; I have watched New Amsterdam. It doesn’t give me the same satisfaction as early ER seasons - I just don’t get the magic vibe from the cast that I get from early ER. And those of you that have watched it, do you find the sound effects/tapping of the ridiculous snare drum so loud sometimes that you can’t hear what’s being said? 🤷‍♀️ 

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

Oh, yes, Bob! I liked her and wish she’d stayed. And Gant.

Never watched Chicago Med; I have watched New Amsterdam. It doesn’t give me the same satisfaction as early ER seasons - I just don’t get the magic vibe from the cast that I get from early ER. And those of you that have watched it, do you find the sound effects/tapping of the ridiculous snare drum so loud sometimes that you can’t hear what’s being said? 🤷‍♀️ 

I wonder why they introduced Bob to just erase her later. Re New Amsterdam, I actually read this as part of a review "While New Amsterdam has a slight issue with their music being too loud and drowning out the dialogue at times, their musical supervisor knows how to squeeze every ounce of emotion out of the viewers with a song choice. It happened about five times during this season"  So yes, it's distracting but I use CC a lot now to catch dialogue and whispers.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

So my wife picked up pretty much the whole series on DVD mostly super cheap from thrift stores/facebook and we just finished season 1. It is amazing how easy it is to watch it. It is also amazing how good the set design is, there is stuff everywhere all throughout the hospital.

I am also amazed at how interested I am in Susan's story. The stuff with her boyfriend  (Jack's dad from Lost) and the stuff with her sister. I am also surprised that I never noticed how cute she was. Especially since I would have been around 17 when it first came out.

On 8/8/2020 at 5:03 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I already watched Carol's non-wedding reception (tequila!) 

I just finished watching that and I was kind of shocked that with all the people at that party not one of them did the Pee Wee Herman dance.

[Growsonwalls]

I just watched Blizzard again because people here were talking about Bob. Man what a great episode. The mix of comedy, panic, and heart was just wonderful. Doug accidentally green-tag that patient is still hard to watch.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[RedbirdNelly]

Blizzard is one of my favorite episodes.

I have posted this before, but I think ER did really good Christmas-related episodes. I'd like a marathon of all of them so I could try to rank them. 

I watch Chicago Med to try to replace my ER fix but it is so bad. I just hate watch. 

It would have been nice to have follow up on Bob. I do think that at least early ER did that more than once. They had character float in and out like people who work your shift but than move to a different department--without always telling you what happened. When you think about it, it is fairly unique. Other shows just focus on 5 main people with sick person of the week and maybe some character who is there for one episode and never heard from again ever

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Blizzard is one of my favorite episodes.

I have posted this before, but I think ER did really good Christmas-related episodes. I'd like a marathon of all of them so I could try to rank them. 

I watch Chicago Med to try to replace my ER fix but it is so bad. I just hate watch. 

It would have been nice to have follow up on Bob. I do think that at least early ER did that more than once. They had character float in and out like people who work your shift but than move to a different department--without always telling you what happened. When you think about it, it is fairly unique. Other shows just focus on 5 main people with sick person of the week and maybe some character who is there for one episode and never heard from again ever

Blizzard is the episode that first made me notice that this show was something special and it remains my favorite.

It would've been so easy to bring Bob back as a guest star and have her be a medical student or surgical resident or an attending.  It would've been terrific continuity.

Edited September 18, 2020 by doodlebug

[Guest]

I have been binge watching ER on POP on the run that just ended (via DVR). I'm currently on Season 7.  Interestingly, I think this is about where I gave it up on its original run, which is the last time I saw it.

I'll definitely say that watching it as an adult is a lot different than as a teen.  I hated Weaver when watching it initially, and now I love her. I also loved Carol and now I really dislike her much of the time (or I did; she's gone now on the show).

[debraran]

14 minutes ago, deaja said:

I have been binge watching ER on POP on the run that just ended (via DVR). I'm currently on Season 7.  Interestingly, I think this is about where I gave it up on its original run, which is the last time I saw it.

I'll definitely say that watching it as an adult is a lot different than as a teen.  I hated Weaver when watching it initially, and now I love her. I also loved Carol and now I really dislike her much of the time (or I did; she's gone now on the show).

I feel like that about Doug.  Not anywhere as appealing now. Maybe his last episode with Carol but his mannerisms and puppy boy looks ....not any more. Just annoying.  😉.   I like Weaver more too and always liked Carter 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, debraran said:

I feel like that about Doug.  Not anywhere as appealing now. Maybe his last episode with Carol but his mannerisms and puppy boy looks ....not any more. Just annoying.  😉.   I like Weaver more too and always liked Carter 

Yeah, I was way less amused by Doug's hijinx too.  

[doodlebug]

32 minutes ago, deaja said:

Yeah, I was way less amused by Doug's hijinx too.  

I think some of it is because times have changed and slutty guys who carouse and toss women aside like kleenex are just not considered charming or fun anymore.

As for Carol, she spent a whole lot of time whining and being jealous over relatively minor stuff.  She got pissed off that Jeannie made more money than her and could give her orders as if Jeannie had spent the time, money and effort going to school to become a PA just to make Carol feel bad.  Or her anger that Doyle was from her neighborhood but managed to go to medical school and Carol didn't.  Well, it wasn't Maggie's fault that Carol chose to go to nursing school or that nurses and doctors have different jobs and responsibilities.  Carol seemed childish and petty as well when Lucy came aboard as a medical student.  She was a nursing professional, if a student is not being honest about their skills, it was Carol's job to point it out to the attendings, not cover for her and whine about it later.

Then, in the last season, I guess we were supposed to feel sorry for Carol that she had to be pregnant and give birth and live as a single mother.  However, every bit of it was her choice.  Granted, Doug shouldn't have risked his career and hers and gotten fired, but it happened, so deal already.  He left not knowing she was pregnant (and she ever so kindly faxed him the news), but admitted that he had repeatedly asked her to join him in Seattle.  She didn't tell him she was in labor, he heard about it after the fact.  Then, she's lamenting how little the babies sleep, how hard it is to work and everyone is bending over backwards to help her.  Luka is doing home repairs, Kerry gives her extra time off, the nurses adjust their shifts and she never seems very grateful for any of it.  As her last act, she walks out of the ER and never returns.  No two weeks' notice for Princess Carol!

Probably the most aggravating moment for me was in 'All in the Family' as Carol arrives with the day shift to discover that Carter and Lucy have been stabbed and Lucy is dead and Carter in ICU.  Her first thought, 'Oh great!  We're going to be short a resident and med student on day shift. '  Way to be Carol!  She was equally sympathetic to Carter in 'A Perfect Match' when he started talking about Lucy and his guilt and she immediately interrupted to let him know that as a single mother with twins, she was equally stressed.  No, Carol, you weren't.

[Claire85]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Probably the most aggravating moment for me was in 'All in the Family' as Carol arrives with the day shift to discover that Carter and Lucy have been stabbed and Lucy is dead and Carter in ICU.  Her first thought, 'Oh great!  We're going to be short a resident and med student on day shift. '  Way to be Carol!  She was equally sympathetic to Carter in 'A Perfect Match' when he started talking about Lucy and his guilt and she immediately interrupted to let him know that as a single mother with twins, she was equally stressed.  No, Carol, you weren't.

This, 1000x. The TWoP recapper at the time made a hilarious comment about how I’m sure Carter’s sorry he ruined your day, Carol, why don’t you page him so he can tell you? And Lucy would apologize, if only she could. God, I hated Carol! 

[Claire85]

I had to look up the quote from the recap. It still makes me laugh. 

“Behind him, we hear Carol's voice -- about as welcome as a root canal -- ordering Malik to get her various supplies. When she notices Mark, she stops, and tells him she just heard. She asks how it happened, and he asks if they may talk about it later. They walk together down the hall, and he asks what's coming in. She says it's a multi-victim trauma -- an assembly-line accident. Yeesh. She says she told the dispatch they could take two majors and six minors. Mark asks their ETA, and she says, "They're rolling up, but I just realized we're down a doc and a med student." I'm sure Carter's very sorry he's fucked up your day, Carol. Why don't you page him and let him tell you himself? And I'm sure Lucy would apologize -- if she could -- for so recklessly getting in the way of Paul's knife, but hey, look on the bright side: At least you know you won't have to start any more IVs for her, right? GOD, Carol sucks!”

[Bastet]

Quote

Probably the most aggravating moment for me was in 'All in the Family' as Carol arrives with the day shift to discover that Carter and Lucy have been stabbed and Lucy is dead and Carter in ICU.  Her first thought, 'Oh great!  We're going to be short a resident and med student on day shift. ' 

To be fair, it's not actually her first thought, and there is some logical context to her "we're down two people" statement when she makes it.  But the horror of the situation is completely missing from her delivery.  She just heard, she wasn't there for any of it - maybe it's surreal to her.  But Carol has such a bad personality by that point in the show, I tend not to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Bastet

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think some of it is because times have changed and slutty guys who carouse and toss women aside like kleenex are just not considered charming or fun anymore.

One thing that kind of impressed me on rewatch is how they are actually present Ross's womanizing as shitty behavior. Especially when you consider it is only like a year and a half after the last episode of Cheers where Sam Malone doing basically the same thing was considered awesome.

[debraran]

14 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think some of it is because times have changed and slutty guys who carouse and toss women aside like kleenex are just not considered charming or fun anymore.

As for Carol, she spent a whole lot of time whining and being jealous over relatively minor stuff.  She got pissed off that Jeannie made more money than her and could give her orders as if Jeannie had spent the time, money and effort going to school to become a PA just to make Carol feel bad.  Or her anger that Doyle was from her neighborhood but managed to go to medical school and Carol didn't.  Well, it wasn't Maggie's fault that Carol chose to go to nursing school or that nurses and doctors have different jobs and responsibilities.  Carol seemed childish and petty as well when Lucy came aboard as a medical student.  She was a nursing professional, if a student is not being honest about their skills, it was Carol's job to point it out to the attendings, not cover for her and whine about it later.

Then, in the last season, I guess we were supposed to feel sorry for Carol that she had to be pregnant and give birth and live as a single mother.  However, every bit of it was her choice.  Granted, Doug shouldn't have risked his career and hers and gotten fired, but it happened, so deal already.  He left not knowing she was pregnant (and she ever so kindly faxed him the news), but admitted that he had repeatedly asked her to join him in Seattle.  She didn't tell him she was in labor, he heard about it after the fact.  Then, she's lamenting how little the babies sleep, how hard it is to work and everyone is bending over backwards to help her.  Luka is doing home repairs, Kerry gives her extra time off, the nurses adjust their shifts and she never seems very grateful for any of it.  As her last act, she walks out of the ER and never returns.  No two weeks' notice for Princess Carol!

Probably the most aggravating moment for me was in 'All in the Family' as Carol arrives with the day shift to discover that Carter and Lucy have been stabbed and Lucy is dead and Carter in ICU.  Her first thought, 'Oh great!  We're going to be short a resident and med student on day shift. '  Way to be Carol!  She was equally sympathetic to Carter in 'A Perfect Match' when he started talking about Lucy and his guilt and she immediately interrupted to let him know that as a single mother with twins, she was equally stressed.  No, Carol, you weren't.

I forgot one of those shining moments of Carol. Funny how maturity changes your eyes and ears. Even back then I thought because of the contract issues, they did it wrong, he went to Doctor's without Borders (to me) and she couldn't join him. The other tripe wasn't up to ER earlier standards. Her whining I didn't always understand, she got pregnant (why do they all get pregnant on TV even when they know better?)had twins alone per choice and whined so much I muted it in my mind. She drags Tag along knowing she didn't feel the same about him and he luckily let her go. Again, woe is me when she was never really into marrying him and anyone who knew her, could see that. I used to want to be her LONG ago but know I see a woman who had severe issues never really addressed on the show, wanted to adopt less than a year after she took enough drugs to kill anyone and whined "woa is me" more often than I remembered. Then she realizes Romeo who runs around with any pretty girl with a bra likes her again and hey why not? I do love the show but I just see them differently now. We are all human but the nuances of some I didn't like at much I see now differently and vice-versa. I wondered why Carol didn't think of being a PA? Slightly less schooling and more pay. Didn't have to be jealous of Jeanne, she could have been Jeanne.

I guess when she left the ER without a nurse and her home for someone to deal with and the twins to come later, she had no thought but getting to Doug asap and seeing if he loved her. Romantic at the time, but hey we all know in real life, he'd probably of had a woman on that boat he didn't really care about but it had been over a year. ; )  My only fault with that romantic story line was that Doug had twins and not once in that time did he just fly out to see his babies. I know why realistically because of the limitations they had but I guess that is why my "out of the country" just felt better.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by debraran

[Growsonwalls]

Carol had her assy moments but I think my fondness for the original ER cast stems partly from how much I disliked the Abby/Luka/Carter years. I enjoyed Carol. Doug, Mark, Benton, Susan etc because they seemed like real people with real faults and real strengths. They could be lovely and they could be shitty which is how most everyone is.

[readster]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

One thing that kind of impressed me on rewatch is how they are actually present Ross's womanizing as shitty behavior. Especially when you consider it is only like a year and a half after the last episode of Cheers where Sam Malone doing basically the same thing was considered awesome.

It is interesting how times changed. I remember even back then and watching Cheers on Netflix how much my wife and I went: "Wow, why did women just throw themselves at these guys?" It is also how times have changed, I mean 15 years ago, you could high five your students if you were a teacher or literally give them a pat on the back for doing a good job. Now its: "That's my personal space." or "I don't need to celebrate anything, just leave me alone or I'll report you!" 

[debraran]

15 minutes ago, readster said:

It is interesting how times changed. I remember even back then and watching Cheers on Netflix how much my wife and I went: "Wow, why did women just throw themselves at these guys?" It is also how times have changed, I mean 15 years ago, you could high five your students if you were a teacher or literally give them a pat on the back for doing a good job. Now its: "That's my personal space." or "I don't need to celebrate anything, just leave me alone or I'll report you!" 

I just wanted one woman to say No to Doug and mean it. We had someone like him at the hospital I worked at in the 80's.  and he mentioned that I along with another lady he "never could get" God, the poor woman that eventually married him. Every time someone said No like the lady with the son, you just knew she'd be back. lol  I mean he was cute but was there any self respect?

Edited September 19, 2020 by debraran

[CrazyInAlabama]

I caught my favorite episode of all time.   Benton's appendix going boom.      That was so funny, with Carter getting to do the surgery, while "Ride of the Valkyries" was playing.    Dr. Hicks was great in this, and Kerry (Carrie?) was good too. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

I just wanted one woman to say No to Doug and mean it.

His med student in the pilot, but maybe she was the only one?

47 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I caught my favorite episode of all time.   Benton's appendix going boom.      That was so funny, with Carter getting to do the surgery, while "Ride of the Valkyries" was playing. 

The sheer delight Carter takes in it is perfectly played.

 

[ch1]

I lost count the number of times I watched that scene.  Hicks is great in this episode too.

[Growsonwalls]

I also loved this scene:

 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

His med student in the pilot, but maybe she was the only one 

Didn’t he sleep with someone that was med student or intern? Carter’s girlfriend. That was lame too, she has a hard day. Please....

I loved Carter in that appendix scene, mostly all his conversations with Benton. The early talks, the angry talks, the bonding, the rough ride to rehab later.  Great chemistry on and off set. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by debraran

[Bastet]

16 minutes ago, debraran said:

Didn’t he sleep with someone that was med student or intern? Carter’s girlfriend.

Yes, Harper (Christine Elise's character).

[debraran]

This scene from 3 minutes in on, always make me tear up. Benton and Carter at their best.

 '

[Growsonwalls]

I also loved the storyline of Mark and his dad. Anthony Edwards and John Collum had amazing chemistry. It was just great writing and acting. John Collum exudes such decency that you just knew Mark's dad had to be a good guy underneath and he was.

 

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

This scene from 3 minutes in on, always make me tear up. Benton and Carter at their best.

Theirs is my favorite relationship of the show, and I love things like Benton being the one to give Carter his white coat but doing so by shoving it in a box and having someone take it to him and Benton responding to the token gift and story by pointing out the El doesn't use tokens anymore, but I also absolutely love this scene -- Peter kisses his head! 

[debraran]

35 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Theirs is my favorite relationship of the show, and I love things like Benton being the one to give Carter his white coat but doing so by shoving it in a box and having someone take it to him and Benton responding to the token gift and story by pointing out the El doesn't use tokens anymore, but I also absolutely love this scene -- Peter kisses his head! 

Peter kissing his head I think I missed in the past, but caught it the last couple of times, I feel that was a bit improvised.  : )

They just don't write many scripts as well anymore. (and I'm not saying that because I'm older!)

Edited September 20, 2020 by debraran

[Driad]

Did Benton have Reese by the time he took Carter to rehab?  His kissing Carter's head looked like a gesture one might make toward an unhappy child.  I haven't seen ER since it first aired (except clips) so I'm not sure of the sequence.  Thanks!

[debraran]

21 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did Benton have Reese by the time he took Carter to rehab?  His kissing Carter's head looked like a gesture one might make toward an unhappy child.  I haven't seen ER since it first aired (except clips) so I'm not sure of the sequence.  Thanks!

Yes, Carter's addiction issues after his attack came later in season 6. Reese is born end of season 3 or beginning of season 4.