Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[snarkastic]

No, he's just attracted to the fact that she's a mass murderer/rapist/destroyer of an entire world/enslaver of an entire world's population. It makes her "bold and audacious," don't you see??? ;)

 

Hey, I could be down with that except for I didn't see that attitude from him in the Enchanted Forest. Maybe Regina doing a good thing and saving Roland was actually a turn off for him? Really, that's where I'm finding the biggest disconnect in their story. Their initial meetings were even so similar that it comes down to him having a tatoo as the reason they're together and that bothers me so much.

[Mari]

Most support groups require you to recognize you have a problem, first.

 

I don't think he and Belle are quite there, yet. :)

Edited July 19, 2014 by Mari

[tennisgurl]

Heheheh Its almost like there is a really interesting story in here somewhere with Robin and Belle. Like, why do people fall for partners that are clearly bad news? Do they think they can "fix" them? Do they like the danger? Are they self destructive? This is territory that other, better shows have mined a lot of interesting stuff out of.  Unfortunately, the show hasn't really given them that much thought, or about the implications of these "redemptive" relationships. Plus, even if they tried to dig more into these issues, I really don't think they would be handled very well.

 

"Hi my name is Belle. My choice in relationships is extremely questionable"

"Hi Belle..."

Edited July 19, 2014 by tennisgurl

[stealinghome]

Maybe Regina doing a good thing and saving Roland was actually a turn off for him?

Ha!

 

More seriously, what I really, really think was a miscalculation in the Outlaw Queen story was, as Rumsy4 noted above, that they didn't have Robin and Regina fall into a reluctant relationship during the Missing Year, one that would explain why Robin is so otherwise-inexplicably drawn to Regina in Storybrooke. They could have used the Missing Year to gesture toward Robin's angst about shacking up with a mass murderer (seriously, the conversation with Charming in 3x14, for example, would have been a perfect time for Robin to be like "Yeah, I don't know, I find myself being drawn to Regina, but she's killed so many people, I just don't know...") and showed enough of them to let you understand that Robin was working his angst out off-screen, and then at the end of the Missing Year, show you a scene with him and Regina where it's obvious they're together. If we'd had that, I could have more easily accepted his total lack of thought in Storybrooke about all the people Regina has killed if I knew that, even if he didn't consciously remember, he had already worked his way through that. And then the absolute fast-tracking of Outlaw Queen in 3B would have made 500% more sense in general, because they could've played it as "Regina and Robin's hearts/unconscious minds remember, even if their conscious minds don't." And then, Robin being torn between Marian and Regina, as he clearly will be in at least 4A, would make more sense, because he would have a relationship of several months with Regina, not just four days.

 

Like, I actually don't understand why they didn't do this--other than the writers seemed allergic to actually doing anything interesting with the Missing Year (the whole point of which was supposed to be an interesting mystery!).

[snarkastic]

Plus, even if they tried to dig more into these issues, I really don't think they would be handled very well.

 

lol That's a great tagline for Adam and Eddy.

Ha!

 

More seriously, what I really, really think was a miscalculation in the Outlaw Queen story was, as Rumsy4 noted above, that they didn't have Robin and Regina fall into a reluctant relationship during the Missing Year, one that would explain why Robin is so otherwise-inexplicably drawn to Regina in Storybrooke. They could have used the Missing Year to gesture toward Robin's angst about shacking up with a mass murderer (seriously, the conversation with Charming in 3x14, for example, would have been a perfect time for Robin to be like "Yeah, I don't know, I find myself being drawn to Regina, but she's killed so many people, I just don't know...") and showed enough of them to let you understand that Robin was working his angst out off-screen, and then at the end of the Missing Year, show you a scene with him and Regina where it's obvious they're together. If we'd had that, I could have more easily accepted his total lack of thought in Storybrooke about all the people Regina has killed if I knew that, even if he didn't consciously remember, he had already worked his way through that. And then the absolute fast-tracking of Outlaw Queen in 3B would have made 500% more sense in general, because they could've played it as "Regina and Robin's hearts/unconscious minds remember, even if their conscious minds don't." And then, Robin being torn between Marian and Regina, as he clearly will be in at least 4A, would make more sense, because he would have a relationship of several months with Regina, not just four days.

 

Like, I actually don't understand why they didn't do this--other than the writers seemed allergic to actually doing anything interesting with the Missing Year (the whole point of which was supposed to be an interesting mystery!).

 

First part, YES! That's originally where I thought they were going to go when outlaw queen met in the past was that they were together and then forgot, but they WEREN'T and it definitely soured me to the fast track coupling in the present time. At least I get to use this relationship to point to whenever someone says captain swan was rushed?

 

Second part, and it's such a shame that I feel like they've closed off that period of time, never to be explored again. Like, how could they? It was so early on that they found out about Zelena, then at the end of the year apparently nothing else had happened, all focus on Zelena. Boo.

[Rumsy4]

 

And then, Robin being torn between Marian and Regina, as he clearly will be in at least 4A, would make more sense, because he would have a relationship of several months with Regina, not just four days.

 

Exactly! I think the writers wanted to show that without Henry, Regina was incapable of moving on and living her life (unlike Snowing, who went to have their replacement baby). Hence, Regina was made to stagnate in the Lost Year, and her focus turned back on vengeance towards Zelena. It's as though the writers want to reiterate the point that Henry is pivotal to Regina's rehabilitation.  

[YaddaYadda]

I would have been down with Regina/Hood if the writers had been smart enough to actually have them be romantic in the Enchanted Forest.  She didn't even like him and he seemed to be just meh on her.

 

When they had their first kiss, for me at least, it came as Robin having been without that type of physical contact in a while, perhaps since he lost Marian.  And Regina decided to trust him with fucking heart because of that stupid tattoo.  I wish they hadn't gone down that route with them.  Now I just find anything pertaining to them really eye roll inducing. 

 

Actually, I wish they hadn't gone down the Robin Hood road at all.  This version is a total pussy cat.  He is the opposite of his tattoo.  He really doesn't roar.

[Shanna Marie]

Like, why do people fall for partners that are clearly bad news? Do they think they can "fix" them?

Belle is a classic case of "I can heal him with the power of my great love!" Which always goes so well.

 

One of my problems with Robin and Regina is that I don't actually know what he likes about her. We saw him eyeing her butt when she was bent over, but I don't have a good sense of what he found so compelling about her that it entirely overcame any objections he might have had about her history. With him, I don't even feel like he has any sense that she's bad news, that there's anything to change or reform about her, that there's even any danger. It doesn't help that they practically went straight from the initial antagonistic meeting to "here, take my heart -- literally." And I have no idea what she likes about him, other than the tattoo. They seem to be a case of "I love you because you're currently the only unattached person of my sexual orientation in this series."

 

Since Storybrooke is possibly now currently reachable from the outside world, I think an interesting relationship prospect for Regina might be someone from our world -- like some corporate raider CEO type who's maybe had a change of heart after some big business failure, and he's now driving aimlessly through New England and stumbles upon this sleepy little Maine town that he looks like might be a pleasant place to find himself again, and he and Regina hit it off when she gets delegated to gently nudge him out of town. I think she'd fit best with a really powerful man who could stand up to her, and one on his own redemption arc might be an interesting match. She'd be a blank slate for him because he'd have no idea about her being anything other than the mayor of a small town in Maine.

[Mari]

Exactly! I think the writers wanted to show that without Henry, Regina was incapable of moving on and living her life (unlike Snowing, who went to have their replacement baby). Hence, Regina was made to stagnate in the Lost Year, and her focus turned back on vengeance towards Zelena. It's as though the writers want to reiterate the point that Henry is pivotal to Regina's rehabilitation.  

If that's what they were going for, what made them think that was a good idea?  I get that having a reason to change is important, and wanting to be a better person for your child is a reasonable motive--it makes sense that Henry would be the spark that caused her to reevaluate and decide to change.

 

But when your tweener is your conscience?  That's creepy and unhealthy.  And a recipe for disaster--I know a lot of tweeners, and in most of them that moral center is still developing.

[kili]

Exactly! I think the writers wanted to show that without Henry, Regina was incapable of moving on and living her life (unlike Snowing, who went to have their replacement baby). Hence, Regina was made to stagnate in the Lost Year

 

I can believe that they did that, but they messed even that concept up. She still fell in love with Robin (and was snogging with him in the hallway) when she still didn't have Henry. He  had no clue who she was other than an over-invested Mayor. So, shouldn't she have stayed stagnant?

 

Like others have suggested, it would have made sense if Regina and Robin had slowly fallen in love during the Missing Year. That would have given the characters time to grow into the relationship and given some weight to it. It would also dovetail nicely with Regina truly understanding how much Snow/Charming were sacrificing by killing Charming to enact the curse.

 

If they wanted lots of footage of Regina/Robin snarking on each other, they should have saved it for Storybrooke - Regina would have forgotten her year of healing and be having salt being poured into her still fresh "I Lost Henry" wound. She was bound to be more prickly.  Despite the snark, they would still be drawn to each other. Then, when the memories were restored, Robin and Regina could suddenly rush into each other's arms.

 

The loss of a year long relationship would have painted the situation a little grayer than the loss of a 4 day relationship did.

 

And then we wouldn't have her falling in love when she didn't even have a heart.

[stealinghome]

This version is a total pussy cat.  He is the opposite of his tattoo.  He really doesn't roar.

YaddaYadda, I actually laughed out loud at this. Four for you!

 

With him, I don't even feel like he has any sense that she's bad news, that there's anything to change or reform about her, that there's even any danger.

This! So much this. I mean, again, when Belle is beating you in the department of "aware that romantic partner sometimes does very questionable to downright evil things and thinks maybe that said partner should stop doing these things," you're...not in a good place.

 

Hence, Regina was made to stagnate in the Lost Year

Honestly, though, everyone stagnated during the Missing Year. Like, sure, Snowing got pregnant (largely because Goodwin was pregnant), but none of these people changed one whit during the Missing Year. Even the Regina/Snow relationship, the truly meaningful stuff all happened in Storybrooke, not back in the Enchanted Forest. I don't know why the writers were afraid to let anything happen or anyone change during the Missing Year, but I honestly think everyone was stagnant during the Missing Year, not just Regina (though I definitely think the stagnancy is most apparent with Regina).

[KingOfHearts]

 

Like others have suggested, it would have made sense if Regina and Robin had slowly fallen in love during the Missing Year.

 

I was actually expecting them to get married at the end of the Missing Year before 3B even started. If they had, then Marian probably wouldn't have been such a big issue. I would buy Outlaw Queen much more if they had went with that approach, but they didn't.

 

Right now OQ is dangerously close to a Regina/Graham situation, minus the heart control. It seems like a very physical relationship that Regina is taking advantage of. Almost all their scenes alone are super sensual and kissy-kissy. There's been no real groundwork for a healthy relationship outside of that. In fact, they've done the opposite - they're nearly hostile to each other. The only reason Regina even wants Robin is because of the tattoo and free pleasure.

 

EF, No Tattoo: Enemies

SB, Tattoo: Fated Lovers

 

There's something wrong with that picture.

Edited July 19, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

I don't know why the writers were afraid to let anything happen or anyone change during the Missing Year, but I honestly think everyone was stagnant during the Missing Year, not just Regina (though I definitely think the stagnancy is most apparent with Regina).

Yes.

 

They could have had some seriously interesting relationships happening in that off year--and the Regina/Snow relationship stuff included. 

 

We could have had flashbacks of Belle becoming friends with someone, and if they weren't going to let her focus on something other than Rumple, maybe making an enemy or so when they wouldn't help her with Rumple, or double crossed her.  Something that gives her a reason to be besides Rumple's girlfriend.

 

We could have had Regina and Robin slowly, actually falling in love--maybe even getting married at a more reasonable pace, with some actual addressing of why Regina/Robin would be a hard relationship to start. (Murderous tyrant/freedom fighters not being natural fits, usually.)

 

We could have had some interesting conflict with Phillip/Aurora and the Charmings--because that initial scene back in the Enchanted Forest left a whole lot to be explored, there.

 

I could go on and on and on.  They wouldn't have had to address these back in Storybrooke until the end of the season, and it would have given them a great chance to make big changes in their characters, their alliances, and still surprise people--with a huge amount of story for the next season.

[Rumsy4]

But when your tweener is your conscience?  That's creepy and unhealthy.  And a recipe for disaster--I know a lot of tweeners, and in most of them that moral center is still developing.

 

And Henry has made a quite a few questionable moral judgements in the past. However, the writers don't appear to view it as disturbing. Regina was ready to put herself under a Sleeping Curse in the EF. For good or bad, the writers clearly wanted to stall her until they all got back to Storybrooke. I guess they didn't want to lessen the impact of her heartless True Love's Kiss with Henry by making her fall in love in the Lost Year. I'm just spitballing here. hehheh.

 

I can believe that they did that, but they messed even that concept up. She still fell in love with Robin (and was snogging with him in the hallway) when she still didn't have Henry. He had no clue who she was other than an over-invested Mayor. So, shouldn't she have stayed stagnant?

 

One could say that at least Henry was back in her life, and there was always the hope that he would remember her. 

Honestly, though, everyone stagnated during the Missing Year. ...(though I definitely think the stagnancy is most apparent with Regina).

 

Yeah--but we were specifically look at Regina's case, and I was trying to come up with the reasoning behind the stalling. I do agree that almost everyone stagnated in the missing year, though. It seems as though it was only done to accommodate Jared's ageing. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Rumsy4

[FabulousTater]

This may sound insane but, what if Robin was intentionally written as a temporary whirlwind "romance" for the sole purpose of taking him away from Regina? Like, I'm not sure Outlaw Queen is endgame. They could've written anyone else for Regina to latch on to for a 5 day romance, but they went with a super iconic character that has an iconic "True Love" story of his own. Yes, they could totally have Robin dump Marian (since the writers have no problem with character assassination), but what do the writers love most about their Regina permaboner? It's not just the Evil Queen aspect, it's the WOEGINA aspect. They love to have her crying and moaning and wailing that her life is so unfair and unjust and that she's the victim and murder is her only option. I mean, season 2, anyone? (or really any season for that matter)

 

I don't think the writing will be able to resist making a "Woegina's Tears Festival" out of this entire story line and therefore will write Robin and Marian back together. Because, lbr guys, we know the writers love those long shots of Regina crying all by herself in her circa 1980's Mercedes-Benz (or crying into Henry's pillow, or while looking into a mirror, or while crushing someone's heart, or....you get the idea). Having Robin go back to Marian would allow the writers to revel in the poor-poor Woegina, St. Victimus of the Enchanted Forest melodrama like pigs in shit.

Edited July 20, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Camera One]

He and Belle should start a support group.

Or they should start a support group for us viewers who have to watch them with a straight face.

[KingOfHearts]

We don't know much about Marian or Robin as characters. Marian is just a plot device, and Robin is just a glorified plot device. Neither of them have been shown to have any personality whatsoever. I'd feel sorry for Regina's character if Robin is her endgame. The writers could have done sooo much better for her. If Robin goes with Marian, I hope Regina finds someone better - someone who will be honest, supportive in the right places, moral, and complimentary to her personality. I haven't seen Robin do any of that, really. He seems more like a desperate widower looking for a good time.

 

The major difference between OQ and every other couple on the show is time. All the other couples have gone through trials, tribulation, time together, time apart, closeness and distance, happiness and torment. OQ has been together literally a week and they've been deemed a destined couple never to part. That just makes it feel so unreal and fake to me. Even Rumpbelle has had more sincerity before.

Edited July 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

I don't think the writing will be able to resist making a "Woegina's Tears Festival" out of this entire story line and therefore will write Robin and Marian back together.

See, I agree that the writers are definitely going to put Marian and Robin back together temporarily, and we're going to get the S2 sequel "Woegina 2: Even More Tears" for a while. BUT I think that their Massive Regina Permaboner will lead them to eventually, somehow get Marian out of the way (whether it's by death, turning her evil, citing irreconcilable differences, wtfever) so that Regina can have her Happily Ever After. 'Cause then they get the best of both worlds--Woegina will cry enough to float Noah's Ark, but will get everything she ever wanted and the happiest of all happy endings! (Without any sort of apology to the Charmings, of course, or any actual remorse for her evil deeds.)

[FurryFury]

Yeah, I agree. This is the more likely outcome, especially considering how vocal Regina fans are (and how they have inexplicably latched onto the pairing with Robin).

Edited July 20, 2014 by FurryFury

[ShadowFacts]

 

OQ has been together literally a week and they've been deemed a destined couple never to part. That just makes it feel so unreal and fake to me.  Even Rumpbelle has had more sincerity before.

 

It's the fairy dust/fate crapola.  I never bought into that.  For one thing, Regina wasn't going to divorce the king for some guy in a tavern that a fairy told her was her soul mate.  Being in lust for a week and then having the wife and mother of his child reappear also kind of hints that this is not the real deal.  I think Robin and Marian are plot devices to ensure more Regina angst and drama.  I actually don't think Robin and Regina will have a happy ending, it is too soon in the show for that, and would be deadly boring.  There are already two happy endings with Snow and David and their new baby, and Emma and Hook's budding relationship.  A third one would be too much.  It has to implode for maximum soapy melodrama, the way Gold and Belle have to.  Happy Regina can't be doing the over-the-top raging inappropriate misplaced anger that the writers love her to do.

[KingOfHearts]

 

What possible reason does she have to be so creepily obsessed with Snow?

 

I ponder that question, especially after we've been shown that Snow and Regina have actually had good times together in the past.

 

Is it me or are Regina and Mary Margaret the only two characters that are completely different from their Enchanted Forest counterparts? Charming, Hook, Granny, Red and Archie don't act very differently at all, but Regina and Snow are treated as totally separate characters from their past selves. Snow insists she be called Mary Margaret (gag), Regina's sins in the Enchanted Forest are pretty much "forgiven" and absolved in Storybrooke, Snow is way too gullible to ever come close to Bandit Snow, Regina is accepted into the Charmings, and Snow doesn't even want to adventure any more. Of all the characters that have been butchered on Once, I think these two got it the worst.

 

Going further, cursed Mary Margaret was better than current Snow, and Mayor Mills was better than Woegina. Mary Margaret was more interesting because her character was not as set in stone as Snow. Her affair with David showed that not-so-innocent side of Snow, just like Evil Snow did in Heart of Darkness. Mayor Mills was just flat-out evil, but actually had the brains to scheme with. She's gone from being a cunning, sadistic mayor to crying over her week-long boyfriends, and frankly it's distasteful for Regina fans.

 

Snow and Regina need to start a workshop for assassinated characters. That is one similarity they have with each other.

Edited July 21, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Replying in All-Seasons.

[stealinghome]

KingOfHearts, I agree, but I wonder if part of the reason that Snow and Regina seem the most "re-set" in Storybrooke is precisely because of their relationship. Or, rather, the writers realized that they couldn't have the Happy Families relationship they want if Regina and Snow were like their Forest selves, because by the time of the curse those selves hated each other, so they just wiped the slate clean for both of them in Storybrooke.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Or, rather, the writers realized that they couldn't have the Happy Families relationship they want if Regina and Snow were like their Forest selves, because by the time of the curse those selves hated each other, so they just wiped the slate clean for both of them in Storybrooke.

 

Even if Happy Families was the goal, you can't get there with a clean slate without horrible inconsistency and incoherency. After the Curse broke, their new personalities came so quick that it broke up the mojo that S1 grooved with. It's as if Adam and Eddie said to themselves, "Yay! Curse is finally broken! We can do whatever we want now!"

 

Regina/Snow need to work out their rivalry, and jumping to "Happy Families!" just doesn't cut it. The most critical question regarding their past is "Why?", and it hasn't been asked yet.

Edited July 21, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

I mean, I agree, but it's clear that things like character and consistency are not things the writers care that much about!

[KingOfHearts]

 

I mean, I agree, but it's clear that things like character and consistency are not things the writers care that much about!

 

Oh I agree, I don't mean to say anything otherwise. The writers really don't care. (Which makes me wonder why I care myself to even watch! But yet I still will...)

[Guest]

I mean, I agree, but it's clear that things like character and consistency are not things the writers care that much about!

 

I'm not sure if they just don't care or if they got themselves into a corner they aren't good enough to get out of.   If Mary Margaret had been more like Bandit Snow, they would have had to kill Regina.  Emma, Charming, and Bandit Snow would have been in agreement on that.  There was no voice arguing that Regina needed to live once the curse broke.  Someone was going to get thrown under that bus and it turned out to be Snow.  Suddenly she reverted back to the Disney version.  Bandit Snow would have cheered the original version of that fairy tale.

 

I'm hoping that now that Henry is back on board with Regina being his mother, that Snow can make more sense about good vs. evil.  Such as when telling a lie and killing people are compared, the lie isn't the bigger crime.

Edited July 21, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[RadioGirl27]

I've been thinking about Outlaw Queen and why I think they are endgame. The writers consider themselves very clever so they probably think that having a classical good guy like Robin Hood being the Evil Queen's soulmate is a really cool twist, and the same thing goes for Hook (traditional bad guy) and Emma (good girl).

Edited July 21, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I've been thinking about Outlaw Queen and why I think they are endgame. The writers consider themselves very clever so they probably think that having a classical good guy like Robin Hood being the Evil Queen's soulmate is a really cool twist, and the same thing goes for Hook (traditional bad guy) and Emma (good girl).

It would have been "cool" twist if they had actually thought things through.  It would have been cool if they had fallen in love during the missing year and it might have been cool if his wife had stayed dead.

 

Aren't there a lot of single Disney guys?  Dumbo?  Regina's soul mate could have had an elephant or a crow tattoo. 

[Camera One]

Robin Hood is pretty much Dumbo without the o.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

Camera One, I actually just burst out laughing. Bwah!

 

Heck, maybe they could put Mulan and Regina together. That nifty fireball-deflecting sword would come in really handy when Mulan gets a little behind on her household chores. ;)

[YaddaYadda]

Oh Camera One! Poor Robin, they mangled him pretty good, didn't they?

[RadioGirl27]

It would have been "cool" twist if they had actually thought things through. It would have been cool if they had fallen in love during the missing year and it might have been cool if his wife had stayed dead.

Aren't there a lot of single Disney guys? Dumbo? Regina's soul mate could have had an elephant or a crow tattoo.

I don't like Outlaw Queen and I think the execution has been terribly poor. But A&E probably think they have created a very romantic story with a cool twist, which they haven't.

Oh, and Dumbo deserves so much better than Regina :-)

[YaddaYadda]

I can't get on board with OQ either.  I thought CS were written a hell of a lot better and I got on board during the last two hours of the season.  So yeah...

[daxx]

I was all ready for them to sell me Outlaw Queen, but they didn't. They told us but didn't show us at all. I feel bad because I love Sean but totally don't care about Robin at all.

I was hoping they connected in the missing year but they squandered that opportunity.

[Shanna Marie]

Even if Happy Families was the goal, you can't get there with a clean slate without horrible inconsistency and incoherency. After the Curse broke, their new personalities came so quick that it broke up the mojo that S1 grooved with. It's as if Adam and Eddie said to themselves, "Yay! Curse is finally broken! We can do whatever we want now!"

The problem that hampers all the relationships is that the characters aren't allowed to have realistic human reactions to events or actions.

 

• How would someone really deal with a person who's been trying to kill her for years, who's killed numerous others in her quest for vengeance, and who just cursed an entire kingdom in order to slowly torture her by keeping her away from her husband? They played David's anger at Whale as a joke, but how did Snow feel, knowing that she'd unwittingly been unfaithful to her husband? Ditto David with Kathryn.
• How would someone really deal with finding her long-lost parents and learning why she'd been kept away from them?
• How would someone really deal with a mother who's the Evil Queen who's been tormenting his grandparents and who tried to make him think he was crazy in order to keep tormenting them? And who tried to murder his birth mother, nearly killing him?
• How would a woman really feel about learning that her lover murdered his wife for leaving him? How would she feel about knowing she and her lover gleefully tortured a man (almost?) to death (even if she wasn't herself at the time)?
• How would a woman really deal with reuniting with the man who tipped the police off to send her to jail for his crime, where she gave birth to his baby while she was still a teenager?
• How would someone really face the person she just saw attempting to execute her mother?
• How would a man really deal with meeting the queen who put him on Wanted posters and terrorized the kingdom?

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. No one is allowed to act like just about every person, ever would actually act in these circumstances, and the result is shallow relationships built on a lot of handwaving.

[Rumsy4]

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. No one is allowed to act like just about every person, ever would actually act in these circumstances, and the result is shallow relationships built on a lot of handwaving.

 

Yup. Plot drives the story. There is barely anything realistic about the relationships or inter-personal dynamics in this show. 

[Dani-Ellie]

I was hoping they connected in the missing year but they squandered that opportunity.

 

Y'know, it had been my expectation that the reason Regina and Robin fell into it so easily in Storybrooke was because they'd had some sort of romance going on during the missing year, and their feelings for each other were like muscle memory, the same way David and Mary Margaret couldn't seem to stay away from each other during the first curse. And I'm not necessarily equating Outlaw Queen with Snowing because no ... there are too many problems inherent in OQ for me to consider them Snowing-level True Love as of now. I'm just saying, the precedent was there and I think it would have made Outlaw Queen seem less out of the blue and more based on an actual connection rather than "you are my fated soulmate so I might as well" than it does right now.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Mari]

  A third one would be too much.  It has to implode for maximum soapy melodrama, the way Gold and Belle have to.  Happy Regina can't be doing the over-the-top raging inappropriate misplaced anger that the writers love her to do.

I think that right now, Robin/Regina is the writers' long term plan.  I do agree that we're in for some relationship angst, but that well before the end of the series, they are going to be an official, permanent couple.

 

After all, to continue the angst, Mary Margaret and Emma can just accidently let slip to Regina's third cousin twice removed's uncle, who was done wrong by Eva, and he can arrange a cursing or kidnapping for Robin, thus requiring a rescue quest and more Regina Tears.

 

I think the only thing that could permanently derail that ship is a massive fan backlash.

[BaggythePanther]

I'm not a fan of Outlaw Queen, but I do think they're endgame. However I could never understand why they're referred to as 'soul mates'. All the other major couples on the show are 'true loves' so why does OQ have different terminology? Is it because they haven't kissed yet? Or are the writers leaving a loophole?

[Mari]

Mostly a loophole--it allows wiggle room, and since they're breaking up a famous legendary couple to make Regina/Robin happen, they'd want an out if it didn't go as planned. 

 

Also, it tied in with the nauseating "Regina loves from her soul." stuff.  (Because where does everyone else love from?  Their pancreas?)
 

Edited July 22, 2014 by Mari

[KAOS Agent]

The problem that hampers all the relationships is that the characters aren't allowed to have realistic human reactions to events or actions.

 

I'd go even further and say they're not allowed to react at all. It's not like they handwave things, they just seem to not even acknowledge that they ever happened. In fact, when they actually do manage to find something to react to, I'm often caught thinking, wait, that's the thing you have a problem with?

 

And what's even harder to take is that when they do choose to have someone react to something, it's often over something that has also previously happened to another character only worse, and that character was never allowed to react. So Emma brings back Marian and breaks up Regina's week long relationship and Regina's life is crushed. Cue blame casting and endless tears by Regina. Meanwhile, Emma, whose life has been completely ripped away from her twice in one year including the end of an eight month relationship with a guy she claimed to love, gets a few monkey jokes and some thoughts about going back to NYC, but never once gets to express real anguish at the realization that all those happy memories of raising Henry were fake or that the life and career she built in New York are now gone or that she lost yet another year of her life with her parents. I'm sorry, whose life was crushed? Or how about Rumpel, who lost his life and then in being resurrected, lost his son forever and was held hostage by a psychopath for a year?  Or hell, even Henry, whose memories were also screwed with and whose father died and was buried without him being able to mourn properly because it happened before he remembered even meeting him. It's that inconsistency and lack of emotional story development that really ruins the show for me. I wouldn't dislike the endless Woegina stuff so much if they would actually acknowledge that other characters besides her experience pain and allow them to express it for more than three seconds before they're over it.

Edited July 22, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[FurryFury]

ll the other major couples on the show are 'true loves' so why does OQ have different terminology?

 

Well, we don't yet know if Hook/Emma is true love. Which is, honestly, refreshing. Personally, I can't stand the "destined lovers" trope, because it's both saccharine and very creepy, if you think about it seriously. But then, I'm all the way in "screw destiny" camp, theme-wise.

 

Is it because they haven't kissed yet? Or are the writers leaving a loophole?

 

Come on, you know it's because Regina is SPECIAL.

[kili]

All the other major couples on the show are 'true loves' so why does OQ have different terminology? Is it because they haven't kissed yet?

 

Are you referring to the fact they haven't given each other a True Love kiss, because those two were kissing all the time last season. They probably spent more time kissing than they did talking.

[Amerilla]

All the other major couples on the show are 'true loves' so why does OQ have different terminology? Is it because they haven't kissed yet?

 

 

I suspect the thinking is that Regina's love for Daniel (in the Once universe) and Robin's love for Marian (in every other universe) makes Once-style "True Love" a harder sell. Defining them as "soul mates" gives the writers some wiggle room to make them a permanent thing, or to have Robin eventually make the choice to return to Marian, even if he does genuinely love Regina. 

 

I'd go even further and say they're not allowed to react at all. It's not like they handwave things, they just seem to not even acknowledge that they ever happened. In fact, when they actually do manage to find something to react to, I'm often caught thinking, wait, that's the thing you have a problem with?

 

 

KAOS, I can only hit the like button once, but +1000. 

 

In any honest emotional story, Emma would be curled up on the sofa wrapped in her baby blanket, watching "Dirty Dancing" on a loop and mainlining Lindt chocolates. Rumpel would be curled in the fetal position in the corner of his shop, sobbing. 

Edited July 22, 2014 by Amerilla

[Shanna Marie]

However I could never understand why they're referred to as 'soul mates'. All the other major couples on the show are 'true loves' so why does OQ have different terminology? Is it because they haven't kissed yet?

It looks to me like "True Love" is something you develop yourself and work on while "Soul Mates" are ordained with a sprinkling of pixie dust.

 

It doesn't seem like Snow and Charming were preordained or even prophesied. When Emma was talking to Past Rumple about needing to make sure her parents got together, he seemed surprised that "Prince James" was meant to be with Snow White rather than Abigail. It was apparently only after he saw their efforts of trying to be together and overcoming all those obstacles to be together that he seemed to figure out that they had the kind of True Love he could bottle and use to create the loopholes and backdoor to the curse.

 

Belle and Rumple had to grow to love each other as they got to know each other and look past the surface impressions. Even though he had Seer power, he didn't see her coming into his life. We don't know about Philip and Aurora's backstory other than that he had to do some questing and had to overcome some obstacles to reach her in order to revive her. Henry went to the effort of tracking down Emma and was willing to risk what he believed was death in order to help her believe, and she put her whole life on hold to stay in town to be there for him, then she fought a dragon to get the potion she thought might save him.

 

Meanwhile, Regina had a fairy sprinkle some dust and then tell her "Hey, this is totally the guy you should go for." I suppose it's possible that if they overcome the terrible obstacle of his wife surviving her execution that was ordered by Regina, that might help them develop True Love, but right now, all they have going for them is Pixie Dust, which I think is very different from actually building a relationship that's so strong and deep that it's magical.

[Serena]

Yeah, Snowing had basically the opposite of a fairy from above being like "omg, OTP 4eva!" - they had obstacle after obstacle to overcome and with only their feelings, and not magic, leading them. Which is what makes them so special.

[ShadowFacts]

Feelings and obstacles and no magic make them different, maybe, in their world, but in real life that equals normal, to me.  It is real and true, but maybe not special in the sense of out of the ordinary.  Regina and Robin and the pixie dust is just kind of laughable to me and what I'm seeing is not very much soulmate and a whole lot of lust.  Maybe it could develop beyond that, but I would have a hard time buying it the way it's been set up.

[stealinghome]

I suspect the thinking is that Regina's love for Daniel (in the Once universe) and Robin's love for Marian (in every other universe) makes Once-style "True Love" a harder sell. Defining them as "soul mates" gives the writers some wiggle room to make them a permanent thing, or to have Robin eventually make the choice to return to Marian, even if he does genuinely love Regina.

@Amerilla, you read my mind. My initial thought was that they've been so careful to label Robin and Regina "soulmates" but not "True Loves" because they want to have it both ways--they want to be able to say that Regina/Daniel were True Loves in order to make Regina's grudge against Snow look the least asstastic possible, and Robin/Marian so they can pay lip service to the OTP. But it's Regina, so of course she has to have a ~SPECIAL CONNECTION to someone, so "soulmates" is what they came up with instead. In fact, they probably think they're oh-so-clever for it.

[Shanna Marie]

Feelings and obstacles and no magic make them different, maybe, in their world, but in real life that equals normal, to me.  It is real and true, but maybe not special in the sense of out of the ordinary.

It does make you wonder how many real-world couples might achieve magical True Love if they lived in a world with magic. But I do think that what Snow and Charming overcame was a bit beyond the kind of obstacles you might face in normal life. His quasi-adoptive father was literally threatening to kill him to keep her away from him, which goes above and beyond the normal kind of disapproving parents. She took a magic potion to keep herself from remembering him, and he restored her memories by being willing to die to keep her from destroying herself while under the influence of the potion. She ate the poison apple because she believed doing so would keep him safe. How many "normal" couples have risked death for each other that many times?