Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[HoodlumSheep]

I love that CS has a steady relationship, but I can see why that doesn't always make for the most exciting tv. Drama is great and all, but too much of it just ruins things in my opinion. Also, if your not careful, adding more and more drama can easily ruin the characters.

I'd much rather watch characters in "steady and/or boring" relationships; I find them more realistic.

I love that CS has become a unit just like Snowing too. I'm not a fanatic though, I just find them cute and enjoy their scenes together. They're good for each other.

[Dani-Ellie]

Funny thing is, I've never really been a shipper either, but, darnit, those two kids...I guess I just want to see Hook happy. Emma makes him happy, and she's cool, so yay Captain Swan.

 

I'm the same way, but with Emma! I adore seeing Emma happy, and if Hook's the one who makes her happy, I'm all for it. :)

Edited November 26, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Faemonic]

I like Emma, and I like Hook. I even liked them together as in together-together right before the kiss in Neverland. Now, though, there's very little chemistry between those two particular characters... which could actually be a good thing considering that Outlaw Queen is upheld as this Lancelot/Guenivere or Tristan/Iseult level of starcrossed greatness and I am so put off by it. Emma and Hook aren't being built up as that, except by the fandom, and I include myself in that because I was hoping that Emma kissing Hook's Zelena-cursed lips last season would evoke a True Love's Overriding Data Program even though they've only been around each other for a generous total of three months and knew each other as allies for, like, one.

But now I'm just happy that they're happy. I go, "d'aww" rather than "squeeeee" at every moment between them because I feel like those moments weren't all that earned and aren't going to go anywhere necessarily. So, I actually wouldn't be horribly crushed if they broke up, either.

I will be horribly crushed if Hook dies. (I'd be surprised and appalled if Emma did, because she's the main-est of main characters.) As Hook occupies the intersection between OUaT Hotties and Receivers of Emma Swan's Kiss of Death, though, I'm thinking in terms of when. Then again, I was wrong about Swan Thief being endgame, so, here's a quarter to Mary Margaret!

[Emma]

I've enjoyed couples over the years but wouldn't consider myself a shipper either.

Of course CS had to go and reduce me to this little fan girl who wants to run down the street waving her CS flag. I have moments of embarrassment over that need but then I go to Tumblr and get over it. Sigh. Hopefully this will be a one time thing. I'm too old for this.

The pace suits me for now. I like that we're getting all the moments along the way. I joke about wanting coffee time right now but hopefully it's earned and not thrown in cheaply like crypt sex.

I want Emma to have the world and have that person in her corner no matter what. Hook is that person. Props her up but also calls her on her BS. It's about time someone puts her first and doesn't walk away when it hits the fan.

The table is slowly turning and we're starting to see Emma be that anchor for Hook. Hopefully that continues to develop as the season goes on.

[Dani-Ellie]

I will be horribly crushed if Hook dies. (I'd be surprised and appalled if Emma did, because she's the main-est of main characters.)

 

I've long said that Emma's death would be the dealbreaker for me (as in, "That's it, I can't with this show without her") but I'm getting there with Hook, too. Not for Hook himself, I don't think, but for Emma. Killing another one of Emma's love interests after building them up like this (because I honestly believe "Tallahassee" was a chemistry test, and the writing was on the wall there ... so we're talking two full seasons' worth of teasing and buildup, here) and getting her to the point where she's this happy would just be entirely too cruel for me.

 

This is a little fairy tale show. It's not Game of Thrones. I don't want bleakness, I want "And They All Lived Happily Ever After." By all means, throw as much fairy tale danger at them as you want, but they better come through the other side intact. Basically, if they're giving me this much Captain Swan, it better not end with one of their deaths, because I will just be done.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not a shipper either.  I didn't even know what this word meant until I ventured out a bit.  I love Emma and I loved Hook right away (Sparkly dirt, wonderful!) and I just really want them to be happy because there's this my puppy got kicked one too many times look about them and since I do want all puppies in the universe to be happy, then there!

 

They're both idiots and I really just like them that way.  As far as the way the relationship is written, it's the only one on the show outside of Snowing to a certain extent (since we got that one in the fairybacks) that has an actual built where I get to see feelings changing and growing.  So I'm all good!

[KingOfHearts]

 

This is a little fairy tale show. It's not Game of Thrones. I don't want bleakness, I want "And They All Lived Happily Ever After." By all means, throw as much fairy tale danger at them as you want, but they better come through the other side intact. 

I totally agree Hook shouldn't die - in fact I wish they'd give him a bigger backstory. However, I feel like the show needs slightly more death or loss, otherwise the dangers aren't that threatening. I don't want Game of Thrones, but I feel the show stays "safe" with no consequences so much that it becomes repetitive. You can throw as many Big Bads as you want at Storybrooke, but it always ends with a party at Granny's. The writers are allergic to long-term change and it shows.

 

There are a few characters I'd like to die - Charming, Snow, Belle, Henry, Robin Hood, Rumple... not all at a once, but at least one of them. Some of them I just dislike watching, and others are becoming dead weight or too saturated. The effect their passing would have on the lives of others and the show's story would be what really counts.

 

The happy moments become lackluster when they're given out for free with no loss to balance it out.

Edited November 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

There are a few characters I'd like to die - Charming, Snow, Belle, Henry, Robin Hood, Rumple...

 

Gosh, it's such a close tie between Robin and Henry.  A girl cannot decide.  And leave David and Snow alone!  I can rage about Snow all I want, I don't want her to die, not before having fixed her clusterfuck relationship with her daughter.

[HoodlumSheep]

Captain Charming Swan must stay intact. Offing Henry would be too cruel to Emma. I agree with YaddaYadda about the kicked puppies comment. CS just gets pushed and knocked around (together/ seperately/whatever) so much, it's kind of cruel. Like Emma said way back in season 1, you just gotta punch back, and that's what I enjoy watching CS do.

Edited November 26, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[RadioGirl27]

 

There are a few characters I'd like to die - Charming, Snow, Belle, Henry, Robin Hood, Rumple... not all at a once, but at least one of them.

I think that killing Henry would be a really bold move and the only death that would mean something for everyone. But we know A&E would make it all about Regina, and I don't want to see Emma suffer.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think that killing Henry would be a really bold move and the only death that would mean something for everyone. But we know A&E would make it all about Regina, and I don't want to see Emma suffer.

I despise Henry enough to the point where I don't even give a flip about how it affects the other characters. Same with Snow. Superficial and shallow, I know. :P 

 

It's a little bit frustrating when you get someone like Belle in there whose only reason for existence is to please shippers and Disney. The writers don't even make much of an effort with her. They could kill Neal because he wasn't popular, but because Belle has the Princess branding, she can stand around without any lines for all of eternity. Or you get someone like Robin Hood, who they probably wouldn't kill because of all the OQers ready with torches and pitchforks.

Edited November 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[The Cake is a Pie]

I don't want them to kill Hook, not because I'm particularly invested in CS, though I do like them both and together, but because killing Emma's love interest has been DONE, again, and again. She said it herself: "Neal, Graham, even Walsh." I shouldn't really expect them not to go there, since they've shown that there is nothing they like more on this show than repetition (how many memory wipes and resets have there been?), but they really have to stop going to that well.

 

If anyone who is part of a relationship has to die for an emotional impact, it should be Belle. Losing Belle would drive Rumple even farther off the deep end.

[retrograde]

I wish season 3 had ended with Zelena killing Belle. It would have made her legitimately threatening, and would have given Rumple's "return" to evil more of a motivation. And, yknow, gotten rid of Belle.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I wish season 3 had ended with Zelena killing Belle. It would have made her legitimately threatening, and would have given Rumple's "return" to evil more of a motivation. And, yknow, gotten rid of Belle.

I would trade Belle for Zelena any day. Not necessarily because Zelena was an interesting character, but because of her potential dynamic with Regina. I would go for Regina exploring a sisterly bond with the Wicked Witch over Outlaw Queen any day. And hey if powerless Zelena is constantly causing trouble, I'm down with that. She and her sister would be the Wickedly Evil Duo.

 

(Plus it would have been far more beneficial for Regina's redemption arc if she felt like she had to be the bigger person.)

Edited November 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Snowing had a cute romance and we know they work well together, but so much of why they worked was because Dallas & Goodwin have amazing chemistry. Their story itself was really rushed and not a very interesting romance.

I think they mostly worked because Snow White and Prince Charming were already an iconic couple, and the series opened with that iconic scene of the kiss at the glass coffin. There was no real twist on their story, just a fleshing out and making them real characters with a real relationship instead of the vague archetypes and insta-love of the fairy tale. Then we saw their relationship in flashback rather than in present-day real time, so it was like the highlight reel of relationship instead of having to go through the day-to-day details or being in the background while other stuff played out.

 

I hesitate to give any credit to "chemistry" because it's so subjective and in the eye of the beholder -- I tend to find a sense of ease and comfort to be true chemistry, while the extreme belligerence strikes me as people who should probably avoid each other, while a lot of people find the ease and comfort to be bland and boring and the belligerence scorching.

 

I really try to avoid shipping, and I seldom like the relationships that are presented on TV, but I do like Hook and Emma because their getting together has been more of a process than a "moment." It's not like they went straight from their first kiss to having sex and being in a serious relationship. They're acting like they're in the early stages of a relationship that has serious potential -- they're friends, they care about each other, and they're getting to know each other while he's being supportive of her (it would be nice if we got to see that turned around a bit and her being supportive of him). It's so rare to get a slowly paced relationship on TV that isn't of the will they/won't they variety.

 

However, I feel like the show needs slightly more death or loss, otherwise the dangers aren't that threatening.

You don't necessarily need death for that. It would just be nice if there were ever lasting consequences, if characters were allowed to have emotional reactions that lasted longer than an episode. Even within relationships, they could take some time to work through things than instantly get over them. That's my ongoing problem with Belle and Rumple. They keep raising these serious issues, but by the end of the episode she's totally okay with him again. I anticipate this being the same thing in the current situation -- no matter how evil what he's doing is and no matter how hurt or angry Belle is about it, all will be forgiven within a couple of episodes, the moment he says he's sorry he deceived her and that he wants to be a better man so he doesn't keep failing her. Then they'll be right back to the status quo until the next time he comes up with an evil scheme.

[KingOfHearts]

 

You don't necessarily need death for that.

Well, that's why I said "or loss". They need a price to pay to get from Point A to Point B. There's no real danger because the status quo doesn't change very long. Without a chance of suffering loss, whether its losing a person, a place, a power or even a relationship, it's unrealistically "perfect". I'm not saying Once has zero costs, but the show has little else to go to. Snowing, Rumpbelle, Captain Swan and Outlaw Queen are all endgame relationships. Two are married, and now we're just waiting for the other two. I don't see any risk for the writers to break any of them up, thus it becomes pointless to watch. Their trials mean nothing because they're still going to the same place in the end.

 

Most of the main cast plots have been fulfilled already. They few areas that still need work the writers have no intention of legitimately working on. (Like Snow/Emma or Regina actually dealing with her past, for example.) So without setbacks or changes in goals, there's nowhere else to go. It's Lala Land from here on out with some Big Bads and franchise shoehorning put in to buy time.

 

So going back to what were talking about upthread, I don't care to watch ships. Once is definitely capitalizing on shipper moments this season, and it hasn't been exactly thrilling for me. That's why I wish the boat rocked a little more long-term to keep the dynamics interesting and fresh.

Edited November 27, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

I don't want a dead Belle to be Rumple's motivation for anything or the reason he goes evil or crazy. He's too complex for that. Besides we already got that sucky story and all it spawned was the biggest victim of all time. An unhinged Rumple isn't as interesting as a scheming Rumple with no lines in the sand. They can work out his motivation better but that's never going to happen on this show.

I love Robert's take on things. He plays Rumple like an old creature who's seen and done everything so that nothing truly fazes him anymore. Belle's death shouldn't trigger an epic response from him. Paraphrasing but like Robert said, there was life before Belle and there will be life after Belle. He was specifically referring to the hat but when it comes down to it, that's the bottom line. It sucks for Belle the character and Rumbelle but there you have it.

[KAOS Agent]

The Rumbelle relationship could take a seriously interesting turn if Belle gave Rumpel essentially the same choice Bae did. She could leave town and go live in Los Angeles (or somewhere else far, far away from Storybrooke). Rumpel would be welcome to go with her, but he'd be powerless. It would be a choice he'd have to make. Those are some stakes that would work without any contrivances or death. I wonder if Rumpel is sitll immortal or if he ages in the Land Without Magic?

[HoodlumSheep]

I hesitate to give any credit to "chemistry" because it's so subjective and in the eye of the beholder -- I tend to find a sense of ease and comfort to be true chemistry, while the extreme belligerence strikes me as people who should probably avoid each other, while a lot of people find the ease and comfort to be bland and boring and the belligerence scorching..

This. *claps* I would choose a "bland" couple any day over the belligerence. I feel like a lot of ships who fall into the latter category either end up becoming toxic or take so long to finally happen that I don't really care anymore.

Snowing are each other's best friends, and you could say the same about CS. Another reason why I like them.

[Mari]

This. *claps* I would choose a "bland" couple any day over the belligerence. I feel like a lot of ships who fall into the latter category either end up becoming toxic or take so long to finally happen that I don't really care anymore.

Snowing are each other's best friends, and you could say the same about CS. Another reason why I like them.

Yes.  I think general kindness to your partner is undervalued, especially in entertainment.  A little conflict can be a good thing, but draw it out too long. . . well, your toxic/not care explanation is the same for me.  For example, I stopped watching another show because the "banter" started to feel mostly like the female character just didn't like the male character, and the show was centered strongly around the pairing.

[Camera One]

if you ask me. Belle is really not enough to keep Rumple going. She'll never have the level of importance as Bae had. She's a terrible leash.

 

Taking this from the Neal thread, where the discussion was about how Neal was Rumple's leash and they killed him off to allow Rumple to go bad. 

 

I think the show currently in 4A showing that Belle has no effect on Rumple's morality is a disservice goes back on their previous storylines with Belle.  In 2B, Rumple went "bad" and tried to kill Henry, presumably because Belle became Lacey, and he lost his moral compass.  Neal was in Storybrooke at the time but the writers seemed to have forgotten he existed, and he had little to no influence on Rumple, even though Rumple would know that he was plotting to kill his own grandson.  In 3A, they spent more than one episode on visions of FakeBelle, implying that Belle was Rumple's weakness and conscience.  

 

Now that 4A has had Rumple commit betrayal after betrayal, there is no way the writers can dare to put Rumple/Belle back together again with no actual redemption or development, like they did back in 2A when they "broke up" and promptly had a date.  

 

If they needed to have Rumple go evil again, fine, but at least give it a bit of depth.  They've shown Rumple having zero second thoughts in 4A and zero conflicted feelings even though he's deceiving someone who supposedly could have given him a True Love's kiss.  I mean, if they had Rumple subconsciously blame Belle for Neal dying, even that might have been more believable.  And having Rumple turn completely evil after Neal dies also reduces his son's influence on him.  He could be avoiding Henry since he reminds him too much of Neal which makes him question what he's doing now.  

 

If they're making Rumple a true megavillain, then fine but I really doubt that will be the case.  I suspect they'll show him feel guilt and regret by 5A at the latest.  It's the usual cycle of commit-evil/feel bad/sacrifice yourself/forgiven/commit-evil.  

Edited November 30, 2014 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

 

Neal was in Storybrooke at the time but the writers seemed to have forgotten he existed, and he had little to no influence on Rumple, even though Rumple would know that he was plotting to kill his own grandson.

 

I think there were several reasons. When Rumple reunited with his son, he probably did not expect him to be so antagonistic towards him. He may even have imagined that his son would have been happy to see him after all this time. Instead, Baelfire tells him off, asks him to call him by a different name, refuses to give him a chance, and spends more time with his own son. I think Rumple became jealous, and Lacey encouraged his worst instincts of self-preservation and violence. But once Neal "died" after Tamara shot him, Rumple was thwarted of absolution from his son. So, he took the next best thing that was available--save his grandson's life to honor his son's memory. He made the decision himself--Belle/Lacey had no say in it. 

 

In Neverland, by his actions, he was finally able to convince his son that he was bent on doing the right thing (ignoring the squicky secret murder of Tamara). When Pan threatened to unleash his Curse in Storybrooke, Rumple again was able to find the courage to do the right thing, and sacrifice his power and his life for Bae (and Belle). However, the subsequent actions of Neal undid every good thing he had attempted--Neal ended up dying anyway, and he himself ended up being controlled by someone else. Doing the right thing ultimately got him nothing. So, he may as well be bad, and consolidate his power as much as possible in the process. 

[Camera One]

I can understand why Rumple would want the Hat, and to be able to be free of the Dagger and never be controlled again.  I can even see him convincing himself that this is the last bad thing he will need to do, and then he could live a peaceful life with Belle.  He could even legitimize that he needs to keep magic to protect Belle. That still means he values magic over love, but at least it provides room for interpretation later.  But none of that has been intimated.  

 

The problem is, as usual, I think the writers want it both ways, just like with Regina.  They want to write "deliciously" evil scenes with Gold... gloating at Hook, being ruthless with The Apprentice.  They've been able to do that in spades in 4A.  

 

They have completely avoided showing the human side with him, the doubt, the fear, the twinge of regret, and yet I am positive they will throw these in later in 4B or 5A, to get us to sympathesize with Rumple and to want Rumple/Belle together again.  And therein lies the dishonesty of the storytelling, why I end up feeling like the entire arc is contrived rather than character-driven.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

They have completely avoided showing the human side with him, the doubt, the fear, the twinge of regret, and yet I am positive they will throw these in later in 4B or 5A, to get us to sympathesize with Rumple and to want Rumple/Belle together again.  And therein lies the dishonesty of the storytelling, why I end up feeling like the entire arc is contrived rather than character-driven.

 

I hope they don't try to redeem him.  I hope they just let him be his evil self.  When Hook appealed to Rumple's sense of humanity reminding him that Emma was Henry's mother, not only did Rumple not give a fig but he also went on about Milah and how he needs Emma and if anyone should understand that, it's Hook.

 

For me, there is no redeeming Rumple and he is good the way he is in my book.  Rumple isn't meant to be in a relationship either.  Belle is his crutch and his excuse to go on full bad if anything ever happens to her.  I say take the crutch and let him be his evil self.

[Camera One]

Knowing these writers, there's no way they won't try to redeem him in some form or another.  Rumbelle is still a ship and they write for ships.

[Rumsy4]

Knowing these writers, there's no way they won't try to redeem him in some form or another.  Rumbelle is still a ship and they write for ships.

 

Yeah. That's a shame, and it makes the whole thing a farce. The end is predetermined, and we know it. I'm not sure Rumple will survive the end of the series, but I bet Belle will inspire him to become "good" again, or whatever. Just like with Outlaw Queen. Everyone "knows" they will end up together, and not because their story is being told in flashbacks like Snowing's was, but because of Pixie Dust. Regina's redemption is also a joke, because they've retconned and white-washed 90% of her stuff. The remaining 10% people are not allowed to bring up, except as a throwaway humorous line. The writers refuse to deal with consequences in any honest or meaningful way, and that lessens the depth and value of their narrative, and the relationships in the Show.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I can't take Rumbelle seriously now because it makes her look either shady or stupid, but if she stays with him after this and continues to profess belief in his good heart, then I'll just call her an accessory because she's condoning his actions. The only way I could believe in them being endgame is if she kicks him to the curb, is independent for a while and mad at herself for believing anything he said, and then he actually is forced to change and really change, and there is much groveling, and then she maybe takes him back at the end of the series.

 

But I'm afraid what will happen is that she'll bring him back from the brink with the power of her love, thus proving what a good heart he really has, deep down inside, and she might stay mad at him for about five minutes, but within an episode she'll be back with him.

[YaddaYadda]

SHe needs an intervention.

 

The mirror tried, she didn't listen. 

[scenicbyway]

I've seen a lot of speculation or hope that Hook's father is Davy Jones ala Pirates of the Carribean and that his mother is Calypso, a sea goddess.  I don't get it.  Other than the last names Jones and both being pirates, why would they want his dad to be a monster and his mom to be a sea goddess?  I could see a nod to PoC with him being a pirate with last name Jones, but I hope it only goes that far.

[Curio]

Yeah, I don't want them to copy Pirates of the Caribbean too much on the show. But I definitely want Davy Jones (not the PotC version) to be Hook's father. I mean, the writers had to purposely name him Killian Jones for a reason, right?
 
Looking back at the most recent episode, I know everyone keeps pointing out how Emma noticed something was off about Killian's goodbye kiss, but was I the only one who thought Belle suspected something was weird when Rumple gave her a goodbye hug? First off, it was strange that Rumple gave her a hug and not a kiss to begin with, but there was something in Belle's expression that made me think her gears were turning. I honestly have no idea how those two can remain a couple if when Belle figures out all of Rumple's secrets.

[Amerilla]

Yes, Curio, I thought Belle sensed something was off then, and before that at Granny's.

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple had his freakin' dagger out while he was with Belle.  What happened there?  Did she give him the fake one back to him because the curse was coming?  And he was all telling her how he was the Dark One but that she could still hurt him.  So she doesn't have the real dagger, how can she hurt him?  Is he talking about that tiny nick that she gave him?  The whole Belle/Rumple scene was a major WTF for me.

 

Regarding Hook's parentage, I also think they gave him the last name Jones for a reason.  And it's not like Once follows the actual stories from the fairy tales or the movies.  I mean Snow wronged Regina and Rumple is both Belle's Beast and Hook's Crocodile and Pan was an even bigger shit than he was in the cartoon.  So they can play fast and loose with a lot of things.

 

There have been a lot of re-runs of PotC on TV lately and I semi rewatched the first one and I had totally forgotten that Elizabeth's last name was Swann and one of the lines they gave Hook "So you've heard of me" is straight out of Jack Sparrow's dialogue...I think they will get to that eventually.

[retrograde]

Wasn't Hook originally supposed to be a much more short-lived character, though? If so, the name might have been a nod to Davy Jones, but I think any familial connection would have been concocted later (if they have even decided this stuff yet at all).

 

I'm mixed on this. On the one hand, I would rather at least one character on this show come from a "normal" family and I don't see any good reason for Hook to have "notable" parentage. On the other, there is pretty much zero chance they would ever delve into his backstory if at least one parent wasn't a recognisable fictional character, so that just may be a necessary trade-off.

[Rumsy4]

Wasn't Hook originally supposed to be a much more short-lived character, though? If so, the name might have been a nod to Davy Jones, but I think any familial connection would have been concocted later (if they have even decided this stuff yet at all).

 

I've never read that Hook was supposed to be a short-lived character. I do think the name Killian Jones had to have been chosen for a reason, since it's so different from the name Barrie gave. It is likely that Davy Jones might turn out to be Hook's ancestor, if not father. 

[OnceUponAJen]

Looking back at the most recent episode, I know everyone keeps pointing out how Emma noticed something was off about Killian's goodbye kiss, but was I the only one who thought Belle suspected something was weird when Rumple gave her a goodbye hug? First off, it was strange that Rumple gave her a hug and not a kiss to begin with, but there was something in Belle's expression that made me think her gears were turning.

I think Belle may find something while she's locked away in the shop, especially if she's already suspicious of something being wrong.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think Belle may find something while she's locked away in the shop, especially if she's already suspicious of something being wrong.

Just before the curse hits... "Oh my, this curse must be bad if Rumple says it is! Let me put a few of my favorite books in the vault just to be safe... Hey! Rumple's keeping a fake dagger in here! He's so weird. Well, I have the real one and that's all that matters."

Edited December 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I've never read that Hook was supposed to be a short-lived character. I do think the name Killian Jones had to have been chosen for a reason, since it's so different from the name Barrie gave. It is likely that Davy Jones might turn out to be Hook's ancestor, if not father. 

In retrospect, I may have misinterpreted interviews with the actor where he said something like he wasn't sure how long the gig was for at first. That may have just because it was originally just a recurring character, not so much the writers' intentions, but it just stuck in my brain that Hook wasn't necessarily supposed to be a main character originally. 

[Camera One]

Regarding the dagger, Jane Espensen tweeted the following in response to a fan's question:
 

"We established he can switch the dagger with the fake at will."

[Curio]

"We established he can switch the dagger with the fake at will."

I'm not confused about that, Jane. I'm confused about whether or not Belle is still the official keeper of the real dagger. After the whole dark-Belle incident where she cut Rumple, did she officially give the dagger back to him? Has he had the real one ever since then? I honestly don't remember. 

[Camera One]

I think Rumple said no, you keep it.  If I remember correctly... who knows, I'm confused too.

[retrograde]

I was going to post this in the episode thread, but as it is pertinent to the discussion here: someone on tumblr noticed that Rumple was randomly (and quite suddenly) holding the dagger when saying goodbye to Belle in 4.10. I wonder if there was a deleted scene where she "gave" it back to him for protection or whatever?

[Rumsy4]

I assume she "gave it back" to him because of the imminent arrival of the Shattered Sight Spell. If she had the Dagger when under the spell, she could do him real damage. Of course, she thought she was giving him the Dagger back, but that wasn't the real one (so convoluted).

[jhlipton]

There are a few characters I'd like to die - Charming, Snow, Belle, Henry, Robin Hood, Rumple... not all at a once, but at least one of them. 

 

Death doesn't have consequences much of the time.  Cinderella's fairy godmother, the Dragon, Tamara -- they all died and the reaction was ho-hum, what's next.  (the build-up with both the Dragon and Tamara only to have both offed so casually was just plain dumb!)

[formerlyfreedom]

In retrospect, I may have misinterpreted interviews with the actor where he said something like he wasn't sure how long the gig was for at first. That may have just because it was originally just a recurring character, not so much the writers' intentions, but it just stuck in my brain that Hook wasn't necessarily supposed to be a main character originally. 

 

I seem to remember that Colin was added as a regular before his first episode even aired. So maybe the plan at first was to have Hook be just a few episodes, but that must have changed quickly.

[retrograde]

Fair enough. Well in that case, the name does seem notable, though I'd still rather it wasn't. 

[regularlyleaded]

I seem to remember that Colin was added as a regular before his first episode even aired. So maybe the plan at first was to have Hook be just a few episodes, but that must have changed quickly.

More than just that, IIRC. I think they upped him from guest to signed regular before season 2 (his debut season) even started. I seem remember the spoiler boards like TVline  all a flutter with comments like "Well, dang, they must be really happy with this guy if he just went straight to being a regular cast member before his debut..."

[Souris]

I seem to remember that Colin was added as a regular before his first episode even aired. So maybe the plan at first was to have Hook be just a few episodes, but that must have changed quickly.

I suspect that they wanted Hook to be a regular but also wanted to be sure that chemistry worked out with Colin. He was made a regular really quickly, before his first ep aired. And there had to be some time in there for agent negotiation, too, so it was even quicker than the announcement. I think the beanstalk was a big chemistry test for Colin and JMo, and they passed, so TPTB pulled the regular trigger.

[pezgirl7]

I read on twitter a few days ago that a fan said the creators had planned on having the character Killian Jones (not necessarily Hook) from the get go. I can't find any more info about it. Does anyone remember reading that?

Here is the article from ew.com that showed the first photo of Hook.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/10/03/once-upon-a-time-captain-hook/

The comments made me smile. Lots of Hot, Yum and Wows being thrown around, with people hoping he becomes a series regular. Then a little later in the day, it's announced he's been made a regular. :)

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/10/03/colin-odonoghue-hook/

[KingOfHearts]

 

It is basically a shell game. The dagger is here. No, it is over here.

It's part of Rumple's "Follow the Lady" game he mentioned, I suppose!

[Camera One]

It would be important to know who has the real dagger if Belle actually figures out it's a fake and that will be the big climatic scene.  Since it can be switched willy nilly and we have no idea who has the real dagger at any given moment then maybe it really doesn't matter at all.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Camera One