Unpopular Opinions

[SusanSunflower]

It was charming watching Dan Steven's generally succeed in looking like someone who did not instantaneously regain full use of his lower limbs ... and then so touching pine for Lavinia. He did manage to "bring something out" in Dockerty that's sorely missed.  I hope they are paying her very well but she needs to step up in her game if she wants to have a career after Downton. The eye asymmetry for some reason is more noticeable -- but lots of folks have asymmetrical features -- but it's best hidden by a certain animation defying the lingering gaze.  Uma Thurman's recent "omg what's she had done" seems to have been mostly just removing a lot of eye make-up to expose rather small, strikingly asymmetric eyes and rather plain features (losing postpartum baby fat is often rough -- see also Jennifer Conneley and Jennifer Garner -- who look fabulous but much smaller bones and just "different"). I guess that's part of my annoyance -- everyone seems to staid and wax-works like, except oddly Bates who shed a good 15 pounds and looks rejuvenated. Everyone else looks over-fed.  And the wigs are awful.  ... and none of them appear to have a gimmer of a sense of humor about anything ... 

Edited February 14, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[JudyObscure]

You mean I'm not the only one who's utterly meh on Mabel Lane Fox? Table for three, please! 

 

How's this for unpopular: I found Sir Anthony Strallan to be easily among the most appealing and likable male love interests on this show. 

 

I don't get all gooey over Sybbie like pretty much everyone else does. And the cutesy nickname "Sybbie" annoys me. 

 

I prefer Isis to a solid 99% of the human characters. 

 

The Team Edith vs Team Mary fan wars exhaust me.

 

For all the complaints about Robert, I still enjoy him, think the actor is phenomenal, feel his views and reactions are more representative of the era than the vast majority of DA characters, and despite/because of his flaws would put him on the very, very short of  list of characters who I can't imagine the show without. 

I pretty much agree with all of this, except that the Edith vs Mary wars are endlessly fun for me.  In fact, I may have a pro-Edith line carved on my headstone. 

Avaleigh may want to buy an adjoining plot.

[ShadowFacts]

 

It was charming watching Dan Steven's generally succeed in looking like someone who did not instantaneously regain full use of his lower limbs ... and then so touching pine for Lavinia. He did manage to "bring something out" in Dockerty that's sorely missed.  I hope they are paying her very well but she needs to step up in her game if she wants to have a career after Downton.

 

I agree and don't know if the opinion is unpopular, but almost every line she utters sounds like she is issuing a proclamation.  Like alert the media.  Simultaneously seeming like she is bored out of her mind, which she must be in a way since she has so little in the way of actual plot or personal growth to work with. 

[ZoloftBlob]

It was charming watching Dan Steven's generally succeed in looking like someone who did not instantaneously regain full use of his lower limbs ... and then so touching pine for Lavinia. He did manage to "bring something out" in Dockerty that's sorely missed.  I hope they are paying her very well but she needs to step up in her game if she wants to have a career after Downton. The eye asymmetry for some reason is more noticeable -- but lots of folks have asymmetrical features -- but it's best hidden by a certain animation defying the lingering gaze.

 

For all that people bitch about Stevens, he did play the hell out of whatever he was given and he was given a whole lot of bizarre crap. I agree that even though it was a storyline that edged into insulting to actual vets, he did a good job of being in the wheelchair and not instantly recovering. And he definitely played well with Lavinia and the scenes after her death. Dockery doesn't sparkle as much as she did when he was on the show... I like Dockery as an actress so I hope she's not hurting herself by sticking with the show.

Edited February 14, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Constantinople]

I'm usually a live and let live person, but I hate Mary's new do

[SusanSunflower]

Fellow's fantasy land of the upper classes has so few even slightly sharp edges -- see Violet for "daggers" -- when in fact this show could use some serious elbows, claws and hissing. Almost none of these  characters -- after all these years -- has an "inner life" -- instead they still mostly have "Hello I'm ____" name badges  -- Even Anna and Bates (who most obviously do not communicate with one another) -- have they been trying to get pregnant? Has every month been a disappointment or did their sex life end with Anna's rape? -- Why don't we know these things? Has Edith been writing a column all along?  (Seem impossible to me, but I think we'd all "like" Edith more if we knew she was using her "little gray cells")  If Mary is a top-notch equestrian, steeple-chasing or whatever, shouldn't we have seen her at least dressed for riding a bit more often?  Why doesn't Cora corner Tom to find out about the buildings which are about to be build on "her property"? Why isn't she taking Tom for a stroll down to the proposed construction site? How many houses are they building for how many families? 

 

I agree, Dan Steven's was like a dog with a bone whenever he was given something to do, and it was infectious -- Tom's character really came alive in their interaction. I'd like to be more interested in the plot lines but the story is not giving me anything to care about. Given how "flat" so many of the regulars are playing their characters, either it's a directorial choice or everyone is bored to death -- only Lily James has been a revelation, and a well-modulated one at that, I suspect it was a matter of "when they let her do something" as well. 

[Avaleigh]

You'd think Mabel, the catch of the season, would have moved on.

I thought she did move on though? She made a comment about going out with some guy and this guy gets all tetchy when he's kept waiting.

[mightycrone]

You mean I'm not the only one who's utterly meh on Mabel Lane Fox? Table for three, please! 

 

How's this for unpopular: I found Sir Anthony Strallan to be easily among the most appealing and likable male love interests on this show. 

 

I don't get all gooey over Sybbie like pretty much everyone else does. And the cutesy nickname "Sybbie" annoys me. 

 

I prefer Isis to a solid 99% of the human characters. 

 

The Team Edith vs Team Mary fan wars exhaust me.

 

For all the complaints about Robert, I still enjoy him, think the actor is phenomenal, feel his views and reactions are more representative of the era than the vast majority of DA characters, and despite/because of his flaws would put him on the very, very short of  list of characters who I can't imagine the show without. 

I'm with you on all but Sybbie (ooops!).  I had high hopes for MLF when she sassed Mary, but then came the Fellowes fizzle  . . .

[amensisterfriend]

Most viewers seemed very rah-rah Cora after last night's episode, so I guess my UO is that I still wasn't impressed with her. In theory, I actually love the idea of a seemingly vapid, decorative 'society woman' who turns out to be sharper and intuitive than most give her credit for, but the acting and writing for Cora has always been a total mess for me. I know this is ridiculous of me, but Elizabeth McGovern's accent just doesn't sound "American" to me. (And I know that we Americans have many, many different types of accents---I've just never heard one anything like Cora's!) She just has this odd way of speaking and enunciating that's totally distracting for me and takes me out of her scenes. I love the jokes about how we're building to a big reveal that Cora's actually been high on opiates throughout the series...it makes a scary amount of sense to me! 

[charis]

I know this is ridiculous of me, but Elizabeth McGovern's accent just doesn't sound "American" to me. (And I know that we Americans have many, many different types of accents---I've just never heard one anything like Cora's!) She just has this odd way of speaking and enunciating that's totally distracting for me and takes me out of her scenes.

 

There are things in how Cora speaks that I hear echoed in my own accent/speech patterns, FWIW -- I'm American born, but with immigrant parents (Czech father, Hungarian-Israeli mother) and I grew up around a lot of accents despite mostly being exposed to the fairly bland 'unaccented' coastal-California speech for most of my years. Probably because of that, I've confused people when they try to guess where I'm from (I've gotten New York and several spots in England, goodness knows why). It's been less her accent and more her delivery that mess with me (I totally buy the loopy on drugs line -- but TBH I think that's McGovern's normal mode of delivery, judging by Pimpernel).

But yeah. For whatever that's worth.  I highly doubt it's intentional, but it amuses me given her background all the same.

Edited February 16, 2015 by charis

[PRgal]

There are things in how Cora speaks that I hear echoed in my own accent/speech patterns, FWIW -- I'm American born, but with immigrant parents (Czech father, Hungarian-Israeli mother) and I grew up around a lot of accents despite mostly being exposed to the fairly bland 'unaccented' coastal-California speech for most of my years. Probably because of that, I've confused people when they try to guess where I'm from (I've gotten New York and several spots in England, goodness knows why). It's been less her accent and more her delivery that mess with me (I totally buy the loopy on drugs line -- but TBH I think that's McGovern's normal mode of delivery, judging by Pimpernel).

But yeah. For whatever that's worth.  I highly doubt it's intentional, but it amuses me given her background all the same.

 

I was born in Canada, have immigrant parents (Hong Kong) and people can't seem to place me, either!  Guys I've gone out with think I have hints of British (what does that mean?  I mean, there are many different British accents) for some weird reason.  I did live in Bermuda for a year and sang in choirs during middle school and high school with British choir directors. 

[RedHawk]

How's this for unpopular: I found Sir Anthony Strallan to be easily among the most appealing and likable male love interests on this show.

 

 

Gad, I totally agree! There's something about that sort of British guy that gets me. He's about my age, too, so I didn't see him as "that old guy." I thought he and Edith would get on well, but I guess that "you'll be my life's work" statement she made really did scare him off. I have so wanted him to come back and be Marigold's stepdad.

[jordanpond]

I've come to realize that part of the reason that Cora's way of speaking has seemed vaguely odd to me is that she doesn't use many contractions when she speaks. I think that most of us, including everyone else at Downton, generally uses contractions, unless we want to emphasize. Where anyone else says, "I won't be going to London," Cora says, "I will not be going to London." This might actually be a very accurate period detail about nouveau riche Americans of Cora's era (or not), but talking this way is very difficult to do without sounding stiff ànd unnatural, and I think it has contributed to the vague feeling I've had in the past that the delivery of her lines has always seemed unconvincing. I'm not sure if she's doing it less this season, or whether she has just been better in her delivery, but I do see a more natural and animated way of speaking from her the season, particularly in her problem-solving scenes of this episode.

Edited February 17, 2015 by jordanpond

[Serendipity]

Here is my unpopular opinion: I have always liked Thomas Barrow. Even before we saw how nasty Anna and Bates can get. I think he does a good job dealing with the assholes around him and holds his own. I feel a little sorry for him too - he has to suppress his sexuality and had less than great childhood/Dad and all. 

 

I think the actor who plays him is great and does not hurt that he is good looking too.

[Avaleigh]

Here is my unpopular opinion: I have always liked Thomas Barrow. Even before we saw how nasty Anna and Bates can get. I think he does a good job dealing with the assholes around him and holds his own. I feel a little sorry for him too - he has to suppress his sexuality and had less than great childhood/Dad and all. 

 

I think the actor who plays him is great and does not hurt that he is good looking too.

I promise you that isn't an unpopular opinion. Thomas Barrow has lots of fans and is certainly more popular than Bates these days. 

[Diffy]

Here's my contribution to the thread: I don't think much of Mrs. Drewe at all and I'm glad Edith scooped up Marigold. She was downright rude to Edith, who never seemed to be really getting in the way, and as a farmer's wife you'd think she would be thrilled that this lady took an interest in one of her children and wanted to secure her future-- Not to mention the free babysitting once in a while. The decision to rebuff Edith didn't seem in Marigold's best interest. Mrs. D's lines about Edith treating Marigold as a plaything also seemed misplaced, given that Edith persisted in trying to see her and was obviously distressed by Mrs. D's constant rudeness. The woman came off like a bully and possibly unhinged. I wasn't sorry to see her lose Marigold in the end, and I hope we've seen the last of her.

Oh, thank you so much for saying this!

 

I fault Julian Fellows for bad writing on this one, but I think both he and Laura Carmichael must be wondering at the reaction to this storyline.  21st century opinion imposed on early 20th century attitudes and realities.  I think Laura is doing a good job in portraying "the Girls That Went Away." 

 

The UK had no formal adoption law until 1926 and that was enacted mostly to protect born out of wedlock children who were being neglected, abused and even killed by "foster carers" and "adopters" in droves.  Unwanted illegitimate children were plentiful and there was a huge stigma against them.  See baby farms.

 

Mrs. Drewe behaved utterly strangely for the time and place. 

1.  If she had wanted to "adopt" a baby girl she could have walked down the road to the nearest orphanage and come home with one. 

2.  When Mr. Drewe told her that baby Marigold needed a home she would have immediately suspected that he meant an illegitimate child.  She would have complained that taking in another child would strain resources for her other children and was there child support involved.  There was.

3.  When Edith came sniffing around Marigold she would have put 2 and 2 together fast.  Unless she is utterly stupid.  She would have played that connection for everything it was worth.  For Marigold, if she loved her, and for her other children.

4.  She would never, ever, have been so rude to Lady Edith.  That hostility would not have played well with the aristocracy.  Edith may be a wet noodle but her husband is a tenant farmer who owes Lord Grantham big time.

5.  After Edith took Marigold she might have been upset because her foster child (who she may indeed have loved) had been removed.  However, her visit to Cora would have been a blackmail opportunity.

 

As for Edith, looking at the realities of 1924 and how Fellowes should have written this and missed on several counts:

1.  She was pressured by scandal, society and Rosamund to abort the baby that she wanted.  She didn't.

2.  She loved Marigold enough to nurture her for several weeks before being pressured to give her to a Swiss couple.

3.  She was legitimately worried about the Swiss people being a baby farm so wanted Marigold closer so she could protect her.

4.  She cut a deal with Mr. Drewe, for money, that the Drewes would care for Marigold, keep her identity confidential, and allow her access.

5.  Mrs. Drewe broke the contract and cut her off from Marigold.

 

Edith, not Mrs. Drewe, is the victim and should be the heroine here.

[blackCatCollins]

1. I agree with Robert sometimes.

2. I love Thomas. And that might have to do with how damn gorgeous he is.

3. I think Mary should have picked Evelyn Napier over those other 2 bores.

4. I disliked "rebel" Tom & like "conservative" Tom.

 

Mrs Jumbo, are we twins? word to every one of these (especially #4- i found rebel Tom insufferable)

[ZoloftBlob]

When Edith came sniffing around Marigold she would have put 2 and 2 together fast.  Unless she is utterly stupid.  She would have played that connection for everything it was worth.  For Marigold, if she loved her, and for her other children.

 

In fairness, JF never hesitates to play the "she's utterly stupid" card..

 

I mean - and I suspect this is an unpopular opinion - how many plots/storylines on this show depend on Daisy being a complete fucking moron? I mean, in the most recent episode, despite her impressive book learning, she's still too fucking dumb to put together that Mrs. Pattmore - hardly the Alan Turing of the household - is tricking her into seeing Mr. Mason so that Mr. Mason will slap her with the good sense stick.... because as fucking always, Daisy is too damn dumb to form an opinion and not be manipulated into changing it.

 

Mrs. Drewe is as dumb. So is Tony Gillingham. So is Edith. So are sooooo many of these characters. If it enables the storyline, JF will dumb someone down to where they are drooling.

[saki]

Mrs. Pattmore - hardly the Alan Turing of the household 

 

This made me laugh out loud!

 

To add some proper content - I agree with the person up thread who is not that impressed with Sybbie.  I don't think the child actor is particularly good or appealing.  

[Andorra]

To add some proper content - I agree with the person up thread who is not that impressed with Sybbie.  I don't think the child actor is particularly good or appealing.  

 

That is indeed unpopular. I think Fifi Hart is amazing. A real, little performer! I hope she'll be Sybbie next year, too.

[pj3]

I promise you that isn't an unpopular opinion. Thomas Barrow has lots of fans and is certainly more popular than Bates these days. 

I agree.  I love him and love how he's shown such character growth.  My next unpopular opinion is to ship him and Charles Blake. Cause that would just be the kind of full circle story I'd like - Bad boy blackmails Duke and fails; reformed bad boy gets rich guy.  

 

I still don't like Moseley - I don't know why.  I feel like he's being pushed on me somewhat.  I miss Alfred.

[molshoop]

 

1. Bates is a much better and more important character than anyone is willing to give him credit for

 

  I agree. He and Anna remain my favorite characters.  I hope he did kill Green and gets away with it.

 

 

[ZoloftBlob]

I still don't like Moseley - I don't know why.  I feel like he's being pushed on me somewhat.

 

I don't like Mosely because I don't think the show needed a male Edith-like sad sack in the servants hall. There's nothing Mosely does that really requires a speaking role - for all that Mosely and Baxter are sweet on each other, the reality of that relationship is that it gets one or two minutes per episode.

 

If you feel he's being pushed on you, there may  be a reason for that. Apparently the theory goes that Julian Fellowes was soooo pissed that Dan Stevens left and that Dan Stevens was soooo ungrateful, that Mosely in season four was expressly given scenes where he turned down the job as footman and then fell into a spiral of increasingly laughable bad luck so that Julian Fellowes could, by proxy, explain what a complete ungrateful fool Dan Stevens was to leave the show.

 

I don't know if I believe this theory. If it's true, then Julian Fellowes is the one who comes off like the prime asshole as really, he's the sole writer so along with writing Matthew's death as a hilarious fuck you to Dan that the audience didn't like, he's spent two seasons hate writing Mosely into "I hate Dan Stevens and hope his career goes in the shitter just like Mosely!" scenes - which is at best immature on his part, and at worst, is hurting his frigging show because Mosely isn't that interesting of a character that I've needed his endless woes jammed down my throat. But that is the theory - Mosely is Julian Fellowes writing fight bag where he takes out his rage on Dan Stevens

[mightycrone]

I agree.  I love him and love how he's shown such character growth.  My next unpopular opinion is to ship him and Charles Blake. Cause that would just be the kind of full circle story I'd like - Bad boy blackmails Duke and fails; reformed bad boy gets rich guy.  

 

 

Oh, please not this.  It will give Mary a "so THAT'S why he was the only man in England not to fall for me" sigh of relief.

[pj3]

Oh, please not this.  It will give Mary a "so THAT'S why he was the only man in England not to fall for me" sigh of relief.

 

Now I could enjoy watching her think Charles was pining away after her only to discover he was coming to Downton for the *gasp* underbutler!

 

Zoloftblob - that's interesting about Moseley.  I've known writers who do things like that all the time, so the idea that Fellowes was annoyed at an actor for ruining his story and decided to be passive-aggressive about isn't such a far fetched theory.  I think my problem with Moseley is that I'm supposed to like him and think he's amusing because of his woes.  Only I don't think he's amusing.  I'd rather the 2 or 3 minutes of his airtime go to someone else.  So there's my other opinion - which I suspect isn't all that unpopular. If you've only got an hour - pare down the number of characters and tell the stories properly.

[ZoloftBlob]

I've known writers who do things like that all the time, so the idea that Fellowes was annoyed at an actor for ruining his story and decided to be passive-aggressive about isn't such a far fetched theory.  I think my problem with Moseley is that I'm supposed to like him and think he's amusing because of his woes.  Only I don't think he's amusing.  I'd rather the 2 or 3 minutes of his airtime go to someone else.  So there's my other opinion - which I suspect isn't all that unpopular. If you've only got an hour - pare down the number of characters and tell the stories properly.

 

Oh I agree - that's not an unpopular opinion. Mosely as a character has been pretty pointless for years. The time would be better spent doing something other than "Mosely the sad sack doing some stupid shit *again*" and if the endless stream of "Look at what a dumbass Mosely is" bits really are passive aggressive slaps at Dan Stevens.... are we supposed to applaud when it's really not helping the stories move at all? I mean, you're making a valid point - there's only an hour and we're wasting time on a character few people like for a story that exists at best because the writer doesn't realize its boring and repatative and at worse is the writer attempting to be a douchebag over the tv equivalent of spilt milk.

 

There's any number of characters who could gracefully exit. Daisy has no real reason to stay. Isobel, a character I like, has no plot connecting her to the Crawleys anymore. Tom, another character I like, has literally done nothing but muse whether he should leave for two seasons now. And Thomas.... yeesh, why does he even want to stay at Downton? But instead of getting actual plot lines with these characters, oh hey look, there's Mosely being a dumbass *again* and Daisy is being completely stupid *again*.

[FredaDudleyWard]

Edith is an inspid cow.  I dislike her character's lack of spirit and vigor.  Anna is such a goody two-shoes, the relationship between she and Bates looks utterly boring and there is absolutely no chemistry there that I can tell.  I love Lady Mary's spirit and her willingness to speak her mind.  I agree that they must have been suffering for story lines when they threw the cancer dog into the mix.... I mean... who cares.  Is it important?  Maybe Isis should die so that the Crawley's adopt a puppy and then the puppy bites Marigold and gives her rabies.  We need some twisted fun on the program.  Also some sex.  No one gets laid anymore.

[Future Cat Lady]

I think Michelle Dockery is a good actress and I really like her. She was really good in S2. You could see all of what Mary was thinking and feeling on her facial expressions. However, I think she stopped emoting in S3. It's like someone told her to stop showing emotions because aristocrats don't have feelings. I was really unimpressed by her breakdown in Carson's arms in S4. As a huge Mary/Matthew fan, I was really disappointed. 

 

I also find it really funny when people say she should win all the awards. She won't win any awards because Fellowes doesn't bother to write any decent material for her. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Future Cat Lady

[RedHawk]

We need some twisted fun on the program.  Also some sex.  No one gets laid anymore.

 

 

Well, Jimmy got laid but then look what happened to him! Not even sure if he was able to finish the act. I still love the scene of Robert throwing open the door, discovering them, and saying, "There's a FIRE."

 

I agree, more sex and more crazy fun like having a man DIE in Mary's bed after sex and having the great ladies carrying the corpse to his own room. That was so unexpected and hilarious! This show has become so soapy that I wish they'd just cross over into absurd comedy once in a while. They have the talented actors to really carry it off.

Edited February 20, 2015 by RedHawk

[mightycrone]

No rabies in the British Isles.

God bless Robert-- he'd be more concerned about the puppy contracting germs from Marigold . . .

Edited February 20, 2015 by mightycrone

[Andorra]

I agree with the obviously popular "unpopular" opinion that we need some crazy stuff like Pamuk's death again! That was hilarious!

 

I - even though I don't like Blake - have the unpopular opinion to have loved the pig scene last series. I thought it was hilariously funny when Mary donned her stiff ways and ran through the mud. The "mud fight" was too much though, but until then I laughed.

 

Bring on "crazy" things, Julian Fellows!

[Avaleigh]

I didn't realize that the pig scene was unpopular. I guess that's another UO for me because I liked it too.

[jordanpond]

I have two opinions that I did not even think were unpopular until I read this thread:

 

Nothing in Matthew's demeanor ever suggested to me that he was gay or even asexual. I agree that he was presented as chaste, but I don't see how being chaste is connected at all to being asexual. And I don't understand the opinions offered here that he didn't know what "lust" was, or that he was relieved to learn that he would be impotent. I thought he acted to the contrary: devastated at the impotency, and very much looking forward to consummating his marriage to Mary.

 

I never got the impression that Mr. Molesley faked the lung condition to dodge the war. I don't recall them ever showing any evidence of that. What they did show was him "huffing and puffing" a few times while doing simple tasks, which I always interpreted as signs of his lung problems.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jordanpond

[Eolivet]

Oh I agree - that's not an unpopular opinion. Mosely as a character has been pretty pointless for years. The time would be better spent doing something other than "Mosely the sad sack doing some stupid shit *again*" and if the endless stream of "Look at what a dumbass Mosely is" bits really are passive aggressive slaps at Dan Stevens....

 

To be fair, I think Fellowes stopped that once Molesley accepted the first footman position. I believe it was only a slap at Dan Stevens when Molesley wouldn't accept a position because it was "beneath him." Though now that you mention it, Molesley dying his hair could be making fun of when Stevens appeared with that severe black hair and ridiculous mustache.

 

jordanpond, I never thought Matthew was gay either, and I think that's just a fun crack theory. Fashion show-loving, persnickety-about-the-food, incorrigible gossip Charles Blake, on the other hand...

[ZoloftBlob]

Though now that you mention it, Molesley dying his hair could be making fun of when Stevens appeared with that severe black hair and ridiculous mustache.

 

Was that a recent appearance? I know his natural hair is actually pretty dark and I can't stand the scruffy beard thing he had happening in a lot of his press release stuff for the movies he's been doing but I hadn't seen any black hair looks.

 

I did see one photo when he was starving himself for A Walk Among The Tombstones where I was generally perturbed at how sickly he looked. Unpopular opinion or not, he was probably a lil too plump on Downton, but the other extreme wasn't a great look either.

[Andorra]

Unpopular opinion: I adore Molesley. I think Kevin Doyle is one of the best actors of the show and Molesley both puts me to tears and cracks me up.

[shipperx]

Andorra, if that's unpopular, I'll unpopular right along with you. I find Moseley quite endearing.

[pj3]

Shipperx - I think that yours is the more popular opinion.  Moseley is quickly becoming a favorite of many.  Which is why my dislike is probably more unpopular....

[statsgirl]

I never thought Moseley was faking it to get out of the war. He was so miserable when he didn't have a purpose, it doesn't feel organic that he was a slacker like that.

[ZoloftBlob]

I never thought Moseley was faking it to get out of the war. He was so miserable when he didn't have a purpose, it doesn't feel organic that he was a slacker like that.

 

I agree - made worse that in the script books, its established that Mosely and Bates served in the Boer war together. I also thought it was unrealistic that Mosely was even up for the draft while Robert, not that much older and apparently wanting to go, was deemed too old. And don't get me started on Strallan being called up while Robert wasn't.

[Andorra]

I agree - made worse that in the script books, its established that Mosely and Bates served in the Boer war together. I also thought it was unrealistic that Mosely was even up for the draft while Robert, not that much older and apparently wanting to go, was deemed too old. And don't get me started on Strallan being called up while Robert wasn't.

 

Molesley and Bates didn't serve in the Boer war together. That were Robert and Bates. Bates and Molesley knew each other from a former house where they both worked together.

[SusanSunflower]

At Violet's request to prevent both fathers from losing their only sons, Clarkson wrote a letter wrt a lung condition Molesley supposedly had -- which he never had -- and skin condition William Mason never had. 

from downton Wiki:  William Mason:  "Unbeknownst to William, Violet Crawley had used her position as Dowager Countess of Grantham to write to the Army Medical Examiners, advising that William had a skin condition which would prevent him from going to war, and so they should not bother with calling him up for recruitment. Her intention was to prevent William's father from potentially losing his last child in the war.""

Joseph Molesley:  "" Violet's action to protect him was undone, however, by a conversation had between Dr. Clarkson and Isobel Crawley: Violet had included a report about Matthew Crawley's valet, Mr. Molesley, having a lung condition in the same letter that had reported William's alleged skin condition.  Isobel knew Violet's statements to be false and told Dr. Clarkson, who sent notice to the Army at once. Only William's information was corrected, since Molesely later spoke privately with Clarkson and lied to him that Violet's statements about his condition were, in fact, true. William was later called up for military service.""   http://downtonabbey.wikia.com/wiki/William_Mason

Clarkson never actually examined Molesley. Molesley never had any "lung" symptoms. (There were as I recall other indications that Molesley was simply a coward.) 

eta:  Downton wiki says that Violet wrote the original letters herself, and Clarkson immediately corrected William Mason's status when he learned of the "error" ... I had thought Clarkson had written the original deferral letters ... so apparently the Draft Board took Violet's word on the condition of her servants ... no doctor needed. 

Edited February 23, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[ZoloftBlob]

In the scriptbooks, there's a scene lost to filming where Bates says he met Mosely in the Boer war - the reason Mosely was confessing to Bates that he was irritated with Matthew not needing a valet was because they actually had known each other before Bates arrived and JF said the relationship was cut... Not canon obviously because if it wasn't filmed it didn't happen, but it makes since as Bates and Mosely are of an age.

[jordanpond]

While the information supplied from Downton wiki is interesting, the only information that counts, in my opinion, is what is shown on screen. I never had gotten any impression from the show itself that Mr. Molesley had lied,so I don't think we can count anything not actually shown.

[SusanSunflower]

Yes, well, since I think my post was the one that brought this up ... I can say that that is what I remember -- except I thought that Clarkson was responsible for the original notification of the draft board as to these faux-illnesses .... I do remember the conversation between Molesley and Clarkson in which the former suggested he did indeed have some sort of lung problem -- but since Clarkson never examined him and had never treated him for same -- it seemed an obvious lie that was accepted happily enough by Clarkson -- I've always despised Clarkson as Violet's pet doctor who could keep her favorite servants safe at home (William Mason did not even know about her "largess" and would have volunteered but his lacked his father's permission to do so and had not received a draft notice) ... thousands were dying daily in the trenches.... 

Edited February 23, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[ZoloftBlob]

since Clarkson never examined him and had never treated him for same -- it seemed an obvious lie that was accepted happily enough by Clarkson -- I've always despised Clarkson as Violet's pet doctor who could keep her favorite servants safe at home

 

I wouldn't go so far as say I despise Clarkson, but I do agree that considering it was Clarkson who implied Mosely was a coward, I always found it pretty overly self righteous on Clarkson's part to chide someone for wanting a doctor's note out of the war... and then writing the note when he obviously knew he hadn't examined the guy. I mean, what a hypocrite.

[SusanSunflower]

According to WIKI, it was Violet who wrote the original note (exempting both Mason and Moseley).

Clarkson wrote to correct Mason's medical exemption and (for some unknown reason) did not correct Molesley's at the same time.

I had assumed Clarkson as the local medical man had been responsible for originally misleading the draft board at Violet's request.

That he was willing to misuse his position in order to do Violet's bidding is what I despised him for and, I always wondered if this whole incident figured in Isobel's attitude towards Clarkson and Violet. Clarkson caved repeatedly wrt both Cora and "the family" wrt the convalescent hospital, at least once when (as I recall) he had indicated he supported Isobel's plan. Handsome, but no backbone. (Replayed wrt Robert's Harley Street specialist and Sybil). 

Edited February 23, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[memememe76]

I started watching the show in December, binged watched seasons 1-4 during the holidays, and have watched season 5 on PBS in "real time". So, for me, I think the show has many, many, many more seasons left in its tank. I don't feel it's gone down this spiral. 

[jordanpond]

I thought that Mr.Molesley said that he had already failed an army physical. I admit my memory is fuzzy here since it has been a few years. But whatever he said sounded very reasonable to me at the time. And, as I said above, he was shown out of breath in some subsequent scenes.

It doesn't matter to me much one way or another, it's just that when a few people talked about him inventing an illness to avoid the draft, I couldn't recall any evidence of that. I thought that the only ethical issue at the time was that Violet was trying to avoid having some servants go to war because it would benefit her and Robert to keep them home. I walked away with the impression that she had used a fake illness for William but that Mr. Molesley'sillness happened to be true.

[ZoloftBlob]

Could be, but I always took Clarkson's asshole "well you're going to do *something* to support the war, right?" speech to be acknowledging that Mosely was cheating.

 

Mind you, they were never very accurate - no matter that he had a heart murmer, there's no way Tom Branson shouldn't be taking some shit for not serving, particularly since he was pretty open about not volunteering