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had no idea Matthew was supposed to be 36 when he died.

 

Considering the actor was 28 or so, its understandable. And season one, 1912, Matthew was supposed to be 30, which means Matthew was *39* when he died,

 

And presumbly a 38 year old virgin ;)

 

eta - well I won't argue with his *grave* ;)

Edited by ZoloftBlob

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It seems meany people are excited about the prospect of a Rose/Tom pairing, but I'm not especially wild about the idea at all.

No. Just no. I'd much rather have Mary/Tom way before I'd accept Rose/Tom. Speaking of Mary/Tom..in an alternate universe where he didn't marry her sister? yeah, sure, why not? But in-universe I think I prefer how it already is.

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I wouldn't hate Mary/Tom either if it wasn't pulled out of someone's ass at the end of the show. If some thought was put into it, I would like it.

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Another unpopular opinion! I wouldn't hate Tom/Mary!

 

This is almost becoming a crack ship. I think there are many supporters of it, but we're kinda silenced. ;)

 

In all fairness, I really like both characters and adore their relationship. It's developed and grown so wonderfully. I love how Mary admits that she will support him because she does love him (in her cold, unfeeling way - ha!).

 

I don't think it will happen though. Fellowes wants bigger things for Mary and Tom is just an afterthought. He's too nuanced and subtle for his style.

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A man with any one of his dead wife's sisters will always seem faintly incestuous to me.  Even Tom and Rose makes me a bit uncomfortable, maybe because they've all been living in the same house together for quite a while.  Mable Fox Whatsit?

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1. I like Mary. I like that she says what she thinks and wish I could do that more! Her clothes...oh my gosh...worth watching the show just for that. She should treat Edith better but that's about all my criticism for her.

 

2. Love Carson. I hope we see Hughes and Carson more and more. 

 

3. Like Tom but don't really care if he comes or goes. Now he could marry, bring back someone no one likes...and let the games begin!

 

4. Detest Thomas Barrow...the character, the acting...hope he leaves.

 

5. Loved Cora....at first. 

 

6. Not wild about Rose and surprised none of her antics were discovered by her FIL before the wedding.

 

Just an observation. I'm new here but have seen all episodes through season 5 and watched the entire series twice. Seems to have a lot of haters on this forum? Why watch or follow a show you don't like? Just curious.

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Carson/Hughes as a potential romantic pairing skeeves me the heck out. I see zero romantic chemistry and I mostly find it super creepy. Infinitely prefer them as BFFs for life.

 

(also, Carson/Hughes fanfic is frightening. I don't need to be imagining Carson's old man parts anywhere but in his trousers, thank you very much!)

 

With all the handwringing about how Downton is too soapy, I often think it doesn't go soapy enough. For instance, there was speculation about a male character in this year's Christmas Special (keeping it purposely vague) being the actual undead Patrick Crawley. Do that! Make Edith Rosamund's long lost daughter that she gave up and Robert and Cora adopted (explains her alienation from the family and why she can confide in her aunt so easily). Make Cora have had an affair to explain why Mary and Sybil have brown eyes, while she and Robert have blue ones (is Carson Mary's real father?) Use sex/pregnancy for intrigue and "who's the daddy" plots as opposed to...death, death and more death.

 

Or similar to what another poster said, with the Green murder: how are there only two suspects?! It's a huge house and Anna is a beloved member of the downstairs and upstairs family. If Green was killed at Downton, they could get the whole cast involved in that plot.

 

Every year, I feel like the show comes out with these interesting ideas, and every year, I have to remind myself that they will always go the safe route. Every interesting plot that could happen will end in the most boring way possible.But if it's going to get slammed for being a soap anyway, why not go all out? I'd rather see melodramatic, ridiculous plots (acted well, as this show does) instead of "Alfred's amazing adventures in culinary school."

Edited by Eolivet
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Just an observation. I'm new here but have seen all episodes through season 5 and watched the entire series twice. Seems to have a lot of haters on this forum? Why watch or follow a show you don't like? Just curious.

 

JudyBug, we can be giddily enthusiastic about the show together despite its flaws :) I feel like I'm kind of the opposite of the many fans I know who initially loved DA and subsequently felt disillusioned. Instead, I had trouble getting into it at first and was thinking the show was really overrated...and then, by the time I got a couple of episodes into S2 in my binge watch, I was totally obsessed :) I've already watched most of S2, S3 and S4 twice and am starting to hold the UO that S4 is also far more enjoyable than I'd thought when I saw it the first time around. And I do agree with people about the repetitive and/or underwhelming storylines and uneven pacing, but I guess my related UO is that those (admittedly sometimes glaring!) flaws just don't adversely affect my overall enjoyment of the show---at least not much. There's lots of stuff I can and do snark on, but somehow I love many of the characters and the overall look and feel of the show too much to care. I'm probably fairly easy to please, though...I've watched A LOT of bad TV, like bad enough to make even the very worst moments of DA seem completely Emmy-worthy by contrast :)   

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Hey people, you are not supposed to write your opinions here that are completely popular. That's not fair! You must write your deepest, darkest thoughts here. Things you never dare to mention openly, because the other viewers will kill you!

Liking Isobel or being indifferent to Tom is not unpopular enough. Veto!!!

Out with it: What do you really think?

Andorra, you are cracking. me. up.

My unpopular opinion? I love Daisy. And I have no problem with her choosing to stay at Downton instead of moving to run Mr. Mason's farm.

Also, I think Matthew was the "glue" that held the first three seasons together, and with him gone, it's gone off the rails.

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I enjoy Daisy as well, photo fox! Actually, at nearly every point in the series I'm more partial to most of the characters and storylines "downstairs" than "upstairs", but I don't know whether that's unpopular. 

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Also, I think Matthew was the "glue" that held the first three seasons together, and with him gone, it's gone off the rails

 

Yup, and my unpopular opinion on that is that Fellowes isn't helping the problem by protecting Mary in the writing by treating her search for a husband like a child trying to find the best piece of candy.  My unpopular opinion on Mary? She'd be far better served by growing up a little bit and realizing she doesn't have to be married to be a powerful woman  any more. She's bright enough to run the estate and she has some legal authority to do so - why not learn how to handle it instead of playing "who wants to chase my vag" games with all the boys?

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I'd love Mary to decide to remain contentedly single and independent too, especially as she doesn't "need" to marry like many other women of that era. And, selfishly, I find her far more interesting and enjoyable in the scenes that don't involve her tedious love life. 

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Another UO (this is seriously cathartic!) is that I am just fine with the amount of parenting we see on the show. The kids are cute, but I don't watch Downton for kid stories.

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I'll piggyback on that and say I can't stand the kids who play George. What sullen, sour children (compared to the delight that is Miss Sybbie). Also, was Mary involved in her son's conception at all? Blond hair and blue eyes...it's like George sprung, fully formed, from Matthew's head.

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I'll piggyback on that and say I can't stand the kids who play George. What sullen, sour children (compared to the delight that is Miss Sybbie). Also, was Mary involved in her son's conception at all? Blond hair and blue eyes...it's like George sprung, fully formed, from Matthew's head.

 

And Matthew looked really fake to begin with, probably because Dan Stevens isn't a natura that blond.  I recall someone on TwoP said that they made Matthew a surferdude blond so he could be easily distinguisable from the brown haired guys on the show/Mary's other suiters, who're (mostly) darker haired.

Edited by PRgal

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I'd love Mary to decide to remain contentedly single and independent too, especially as she doesn't "need" to marry like many other women of that era. And, selfishly, I find her far more interesting and enjoyable in the scenes that don't involve her tedious love life. 

And yet there seem to be a lot of comments wondering why Isobel doesn't want to marry. "Doesn't Isobel want to share her life with someone?", etc. 

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Oh, I just remembered a REALLY unpopular opinion of mine:

 

I was not sad when Isis died!!!

 

Come on, she was old and a fictional dog. Seriously the outcry was a bit too much IMO.

Edited by photo fox · Reason: added spoiler tags
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And yet there seem to be a lot of comments wondering why Isobel doesn't want to marry. "Doesn't Isobel want to share her life with someone?", etc.

 

I think part of the problem there is that Isobel is really never allowed to verbalize anything about her choices. Unlike Mary, she's a lot older and not exactly surrounded by her childhood family. At the start of the show, she has a son she's clearly affectionate for, and that's it. No sister, brother, husband - just the one son. The Crawley family had never met her and in fact didn't exactly warm up to her... what is holding her to Downton at this point?

 

I mean, one of my likely quite unpopular opinions is that I don't find the required "Violet and isobel zing each other" scene in every single episode to be all that amusing anymore, especially since its almost always awkwardly shoehorned in just so it will happen. I also think Isobel as a character should probably be dropped  to supporting since none of her stories, when she has them, ever connect to the family anymore.

 

Re: Matthew's inconsistent dye job - It honestly always amused me especially since it makes him completely stand out and yet no one ever questions why in a family of brown haired, brown eyed people (on both sides, as Isobel is also brown haired and brown eyed) no one ever wonders about the extremely blue eyed, blonde interloper. I mean, that he looks nothing like his mother got me to produce at least one fanfic...

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I'd love Mary to decide to remain contentedly single and independent too, especially as she doesn't "need" to marry like many other women of that era.

 

My unpopular opinion is I love that Julian Fellowes' hatred of Dan Stevens means that Matthew is barely mentioned at all. I'm convinced that plot at the beginning of S4, when Molesley didn't want to stay on at a post he felt was beneath him was hardcore shade and I absolutely loved it. Looking back, the foreshadowing in the S3 Christmas Special is delicious ("They are noble beasts, but must be taken out for the good of the herd.")

 

The idea that Mary is single-mindedly looking for a new husband, while Tom quietly, reverently mourns Sybil is the best kind of meta.

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I recall someone on TwoP said that they made Matthew a surferdude blond so he could be easily distinguisable from the brown haired guys on the show/Mary's other suiters, who're (mostly) darker haired.

Which is weird because the other two suitors from season 1 looked nothing alike. Pamuk was tan and had dark eyes, longer hair and he was only around for one episode; Evelyn pale with dark hair and blue eyes.

 

Re: Matthew's inconsistent dye job - It honestly always amused me especially since it makes him completely stand out and yet no one ever questions why in a family of brown haired, brown eyed people (on both sides, as Isobel is also brown haired and brown eyed) no one ever wonders about the extremely blue eyed, blonde interloper. I mean, that he looks nothing like his mother got me to produce at least one fanfic...

 

 

We don't know what Matthew's father looked like though. Robert has blue eyes. If anything it's somewhat odd that the characters of Mary and Edith don't have blue eyes considering that both of their parents and at least two of their grandparents have blue eyes.

Edited by Avaleigh

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I was not sad when Isis died!!!

Come on, she was old and a fictional dog. Seriously the outcry was a bit too much IMO.

 

Wait...what?!?! Looks like I need to get my Kleenex and fast forward button ready.

Edited by photo fox · Reason: added spoiler tags
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Yes, it's the accent!  To me everything she says sounds like a softly tuned radio being turned rapidly up and down...or maybe like she's talking through the hiccups. I don't have trouble with most British accents and I've lived in England for three years but Anna's is a new one for me.

 

Crossposted -- I like Thomas, too.  For me he's like Mad Men's Pete, I forgive everything he does and I hate myself for it.

I don't feel the way you do about Thomas-- but Pete? NOW I get it!

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I agree with the poster above who cannot abide Carson/Hughes.  I think Mrs. Hughes is so smart and all-around wonderful and I just don't get what she sees in that pompous ass.  If she needs to pair off with someone in her retirement years, please not him.

Last season, I would have found this shocking-- this season, I agree wholeheartedly and it's BUMMING ME OUT. I had REALLY hoped that S5 would open with Carson and Hughes as newlyweds. They were my favorite couple (to be).

I wanted Robert to schtoop the maid.

Rose is pretty, but I can't get over the "cousin Oliver" factor (Brady Bunch) with her. She is even a cousin!

I don't like Ms. Bunting's character, but I think the actress who plays her is very striking.

And yes, Anna is a bore.

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I don't know if this is unpopular but was I the only one hoping Mary and Lavinia would have a mad fling?

My first thought is that they would have been caught, and it would have been a scandal. Then we see Edith pouting at the breakfast table, saying she's been doing that for years and no one even cared! Poor Edith!

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I kind of wanted Mary to marry Richard Carlisle..  I found them much more interesting and compelling to watch than Mary/Matthew.

 

Not only did I want to see this but I actually genuinely thought for a bit in Season 1 that Matthew was going to marry Sybil.

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Saki - I cosign on that. Personally I think season three would have been mega compelling with Mary married to Richard who she didn't love but married to protect her reputation and Matthew married to Lavinia who he kinda sorta loved in a way but mostly married to satisfy his own weird sense of honor

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Mostly lurker here, but I have to share my unpopular opinions.  1. I love Thomas Barrow.  I love how they've added a layer of self-loathing and defensiveness to him.  

2. I don't like Moseley.  Just don't.  

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In my eyes, Anna's sparkle has been slowly fading through the seasons. I wouldn't mind if she's Greene's killer, it would be a twisted turn for the good Anna to have sunk to a dark side more similar to Mr. Bates, who I used to hate on so much and didn't get her attraction to him. (However, if that was the case, I'd rather have them just run off together like she'd once mentioned in passing. heh)

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I dont care how grumpy he is ....

I want it implied (not actually shown) that Hughes&Carson had sex. Then I'd like his mood to lighten from it.

Yes. I want them to do the nasty. There. I said it.

Edited by jnymph
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yes, and I even think that Bricker took Robert's welcome of him (tepid as it was) and the acknowledgement that he was going to be out-all-night as well as Cora's admonition to "behave" (she said giggling) could easily be "don't set tongues wagging" ... as suggesting a rendezvous.  Middle aged married of their set were rather notorious about extracurricular sex.  Remember Gosford Park -- both HIM and HER ...  Cora standing at the window watching his car drive off was a bit too wistful for someone whose marriage has just been jeopardized .... It would have been interesting if Fellowes had not timed Robert's arrival just-so.  Much more interesting if he had arrived after Cora had, in fact, dispatched Bricker -- who it must be said, never touched her or even "cornered her" not really. She did not look at all alarmed. Too bad Robert did not knock him unconscious or bloody him and have to deal with the consequences of his absurd behavior, at least among the servants. Such a baby. 

Edited by SusanSunflower
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I'm not a Rose fan.  I mean, she's harmless and all, but I've just never seen the need for her presence.  If they were so concerned about the loss of Sybil (aka - a young person), just recast the role.  Don't bring in cousin Oliver. 

 

I was also not that big of a fan of the Matthew/Mary drama.  Maybe it's because I find Michelle Dockery to be literally lifeless in that role.  She conveys no emotion, so I never managed to get into the falling in love storyline.  Fast forward - same with Tony G.  Aside from telling Anna that he sucked in the sack, she conveyed no signal that she was excited/bored/sad/interested/disinterested/having fun/any other emotion.  She was just reciting lines.  And then Matthew pretty much goes to London for a few weeks and boom!  Engaged to Lavinia, who pretty much decided to die on cue.  It just wasn't the hopelessly romantic story that it should have been.

 

Bring back the interesting guest stars.  Cora surely has more interesting relatives in her closet than her mother and brother.

 

Oh, and speaking of Cora, she totally led Bricker on.  Had he not looked like a complete goober, I may or may not have been rooting for them to view some etchings.

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My unpopular opinions...

 

1. Bates is a much better and more important character than anyone is willing to give him credit for

2. Thomas needs to be put on the bus and sent far, far away

3. Daisy is an underutilized and underdeveloped character and, as such, should have gone to Mr. Mason's farm after S3

4. I think we are slowly being spoon-fed Carson and Sgt. Elsie because so many shippers want it, not because they would be a good match

5. Molesley and Baxter? No. Just. No.

6. Mary is NOT the prettiest Crawley girl, nor the most clever

7. Branson remains a character to be eye candy for a large segment of Downton viewers, and not because he has added much since Sybil died, with his constant "I'm not one of you!"

8. The show could lose a major Downstairs character (see O'Brien--please bring her back) but could not lose Robert and survive

9. Robert and Jane Moorsum being together would have been a fascinating study in crossing the social classes, even more than Branson and Sybil

10. Bunting was a good character and is a prime example of Fellowes taking a character who can be interesting and turning the character into something cartoonish

Edited by DeepRunner
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Totally love everyone's UOs! Here are mine...

 

1. I never understood the Brendan Coyle adoration from S1. I ALWAYS thought he was creepy, not very handsome, and unremarkable in many ways. How on earth a girl like Anna could go for him in the first place was just beyond me!

2. I still don't "get" how Mary's supposed to be the pretty one of the girls. Yeah, I get that her porcelain skin is really nice, but, hey, Edith has nice skin, too!

3. I never thought Matthew and Mary had much chemistry. Come to think of it, I can't think of anyone that Mary seems to have chemistry with. Charles Blake, maybe... But perhaps the one that she has most chemistry with is Carson!

4. Never rooted for Tom and Sybil. And while I enjoy watching how the Crawleys deal with the dilemma that resulted from Tom and Sybil's marriage, I never particularly enjoyed that storyline at all.

5. While I'm at it -- I admit that I never found Tom "eye candy," either. Or Matthew. There, I said it. (I actually think Dr. Clarkson is the most handsome of the characters, closely followed by Richard Carlisle, so, okay, it might just be me...)

6. Rosamund should be in every episode. Period. But this might not be an UO.

7. I don't mind Mrs. Hughes and Mr. Carson together, but they should never, ever get "romantically" involved!

8. I didn't think Cora's mother or brother added anything to any of the episodes they were in. They were more distractions.

9. I never minded Ethel's, Jane's, or Edna's storylines. I actually enjoyed some of them more than some storylines that eat up a LOT of screen time.

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I can't stand Daisy.   I don't know if it's her mousiness, pinched face, high-pitched whiny voice, perpetual victim status or what.   I just hate her.

 

I don't like the Shirley Maclaine character.  For some reason I'm always reminded of those awful episodes of Star Trek Next Generation when Roddenberry's wife showed up as Mrs. Troi. 

 

I think Edith is a doormat and actually likes being a doormat.   I don't feel bad when people wipe their muddy feet all over her because she is, after all, a doormat.    I hate her indecisiveness and her perma-plight state of existence.   I hate the way she drags down the mood of everyone around her.   I think her neediness drove Gregson to run right into the arms of the Nazis because anything would be preferable to a life with Edith.   Stick a pitchfork in her, Mr. Drewe, she's done.

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Brendan Coyle, and by extension Bates, have never done it for me -- I've always been discomfited by Bates. Of course, this might be influenced by the fact that the first thing I saw Coyle in had him playing a Nazi at the Wannsee Conference ...

 

I didn't mind that Isis died -- the realist part of my brain kept pointing out how old that dog was.  (I minded that they made it into such a big deal, when I felt the time could have been better spent on other storylines.)

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I know we all complain about Robert being kind of a douche, but I really really wish he'd been a muuuuch bigger one. The storylines now all lack stakes because the problems/obstacles faced by the characters are usually ones that are only problems/obstacles within the context of their time, and we all know the show doesn't have the guts to deal out period-appropriate consequences.

 

On the other hand, if Robert had really been the family tyrant, embodying and enforcing the current social rules - stakes! If having premarital sex really HAD meant you were a worthless whore who'd never be admitted into a drawing room again! If so much as looking too long at another man would have got Thomas sacked at best! If Cora had better shut up because she's Robert's proberty and a mouthy wife is easier to replace than a good horse! If Nanny West's attitude to Sybbie had been the family's! If they'd thought of the Matthew/Mary match as shamefully selling off their daughter into prostitution to a dirty lower-class impostor, but it had to be done!

 

Absurdly, the Pamuk thing had bigger stakes than Edith actually having a bastard child, because during S1 I consistently got the impression that Mary was *genuinely afraid* of Robert finding out - and I didn't yet realise that that fear was groundless. Now Edith might well give off the same impression, but we the audience know perfectly well, as really should Edith, that "Donk" won't actually do anything, it'll all end in anticlimax as usual.

 

It's like... the characters act like things are A Big Deal OMG, act like they will get period-appropriate consequences. But it's all pretend, because they never actually do, so it's imposible to take the conflict seriously. So forget cosy Donk, and bring me Robert the Tyrant!

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Agree -- Imagine the utter outrage if Robert had slapped Cora during the bedroom dust-up with Bricker or even just grabbed her wrist in anger (even by accident). Or simply vented spleen when Cora told him to stop beating the living daylights out of Bricker after sucker punching him.  Actually, I really wished th Bricker had at least sustained a bloody nose, an unmistakable black-eye  or been knocked unconscious so Robert would have had to deal with the consequences of yet another of his (he's a lord so it's okay) (he's a man so it's okay) "blind furies" (aka tantrums).  Realizing that Edith was in the next room and Cora could have rung her bell/pulled her sash to summon aid if need be.

Yes, Robert will likely forgive Edith and eventually "adore" Marigold (despite himself) when the time comes. How wonderful if he were genuinely outraged to have been kept in the dark -- umm, see also Cora when someone bursts her (#1 mom) bubble.  Maybe Isobel could get a "family values" stiletto of the "The mother is always the last to know" type of told-ya-so my mother reserved for certain sanctimonious neighbors critical of HER no-rules mothering philosophy, when THEIR brow-battered children got knocked up.  (The lack of face-to-face interaction Cora has with her daughters is quite extraordinary.  It's as if she doesn't exist to them or they to her.) 

I admit I was rather hoping (yes against hope) that Cora would do more than "be flattered" by Bricker's attentions -- even though -- oh my -- that would be unthinkable. 

Edited by SusanSunflower
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Absurdly, the Pamuk thing had bigger stakes than Edith actually having a bastard child, because during S1 I consistently got the impression that Mary was *genuinely afraid* of Robert finding out - and I didn't yet realise that that fear was groundless.

 

I do think there were higher stakes in that as depicted in season two, when Robert *did* find out, he wasn't *mad* but he was like "so you will need to go into exile in america" with like no questioning. Mary's fear about Robert was much less the direct consequences to *her* and more that Papa's heart would break.

 

That said, Robert's reaction to it did seem incredibly liberal and open minded, and Matthew, for all that Mary was concerned about his reaction, just sort of looked puzzled like "lust? what is lust?" before completely ignoring it.

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But then Matthew never met the gloriously gorgeous Mr. Pamuk .... even he might have felt a tingle ... 

(Matthew was not "my type" but he grew on me ... and I gave both Dan Stevens and Michelle Dockery high praise for managing to make their stilted dialogue sound real-enough and spontaneous) 

Edited by SusanSunflower

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I do think there were higher stakes in that as depicted in season two, when Robert *did* find out, he wasn't *mad* but he was like "so you will need to go into exile in america" with like no questioning. Mary's fear about Robert was much less the direct consequences to *her* and more that Papa's heart would break.

 

That said, Robert's reaction to it did seem incredibly liberal and open minded, and Matthew, for all that Mary was concerned about his reaction, just sort of looked puzzled like "lust? what is lust?" before completely ignoring it.

I agree that Mary's terror was largely about disappointing Robert (which in retrospect is also odd, because as his daughter surely she knows him pretty well, and should have been able to predict that he'd pretty much not care). Wouldn't it all have made far more sense, and been far more dramatic, if Robert found out, agreed to cover it up because that's what's best for the family, but was clearly never able to look at Mary the same way again, like made it obvious privately that not only was she no longer the apple of his eye, she's actually a total whore and he's only pretending otherwise to avoid her actions staining the family? He'd never touch her, never listen to her, never look at her without disgust, be really cruel and slutshamy when she finally protested this. This would of course also lead to conflict between him and open-minded Sybil, who'd defend Mary, and let things take a different course between Mary and Edith, as Edith saw her chance to finally get one up on Mary...

 

And yeah, Matthew's (lack of) reaction was so enormously anticlimatic. I mean, I get it, you can't present the dude as Mr Right to a modern audience and have him react negatively to his gf having once slept with someone else, but still. If you want him to be super super liberal, that needs to be a more integral part of his character.

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LOL, really? Is it the accent? I don't find it that hard to understand. I had problems with Jimmy and Alfred though.

I have to watch all British shows with closed captions.  I can't understand anything! 

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I can't stand Daisy.   I don't know if it's her mousiness, pinched face, high-pitched whiny voice, perpetual victim status or what.   I just hate her.

 

I don't like the Shirley Maclaine character.  For some reason I'm always reminded of those awful episodes of Star Trek Next Generation when Roddenberry's wife showed up as Mrs. Troi. 

 

I think Edith is a doormat and actually likes being a doormat.   I don't feel bad when people wipe their muddy feet all over her because she is, after all, a doormat.    I hate her indecisiveness and her perma-plight state of existence.   I hate the way she drags down the mood of everyone around her.   I think her neediness drove Gregson to run right into the arms of the Nazis because anything would be preferable to a life with Edith.   Stick a pitchfork in her, Mr. Drewe, she's done.

1. Mrs. Patmore has way more patience with Daisy than I ever could. I was hoping the would (literally) farm her out!

2. Mrs. Troi- hahahaha! And it also doesn't help that Shirley has been playing essentially the same character (herself?) for the last 30+ years.

3. Yup. This is not where I started with Edith, but it's where I've ended up.

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And yeah, Matthew's (lack of) reaction was so enormously anticlimatic. I mean, I get it, you can't present the dude as Mr Right to a modern audience and have him react negatively to his gf having once slept with someone else, but still. If you want him to be super super liberal, that needs to be a more integral part of his character.

 

Unpopular opinion time - and this wasn't due to Stevens leaving because it starts at the end of season two and Fellowes has the first half of each season written before they start filming so season three had to follow a set course but...

 

Matthew should have had more of a reaction to Mary's revelation about Pamuk, if only because he's been holding himself as a chaste little unicorn the entire time, particularly since Mary was later throwing a lot of crap at him over the money.

 

Also I think the wedding was rushed unrealistically. Matthew's fiance died and it wasn't a "no one really knew, so half mourning" situation like Mary and Patrick, they were supposed to be married the day Lavinia died and the servants were taking down the wedding decorations as Matthew wandered in from the funeral. That he was proposing to to Mary less than a year later (and more like less that six months later) should have been a huge social no no that should have been a problem.

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Unpopular opinion time (...) Matthew should have had more of a reaction to Mary's revelation about Pamuk, if only because he's been holding himself as a chaste little unicorn the entire time, particularly since Mary was later throwing a lot of crap at him over the money.

 

Also I think the wedding was rushed unrealistically. Matthew's fiance died and it wasn't a "no one really knew, so half mourning" situation like Mary and Patrick, they were supposed to be married the day Lavinia died and the servants were taking down the wedding decorations as Matthew wandered in from the funeral. That he was proposing to to Mary less than a year later (and more like less that six months later) should have been a huge social no no that should have been a problem.

 

I would have taken pretty much anything over what they actually got in S3... but I'm sort of divided on this, because on the one hand it makes little sense for Matthew to just go "ok fine whatever" and that's it, either dramatically or logically, but on the other I couldn't have shipped Mary with him if he'd been a slutshamer. That's actually part of why (unpopular opinion alert!) I shipped her with Richard. He didn't idolise her like most of the other guys, he didn't like her because he'd found some secret inner Mary that was nice. He spoke to her frankly as one pragmatic adult to another, which is a lot more respectful and feels a lot more like he actually knows her. With him there was no moral outrage and no unrealistic perfect acceptance, there was simply a practical issue to be handled and another card in the game between them. I like to imagine he even found it a little hot that she wasn't so prim and demure after all.

 

Speaking of the wedding, it's yet again unpopular opinion time, in that I don't think Matthew should have ever married Lavinia under any circumstances, since it always seemed perfectly clear to me that she was nothing but a rebound, a failed attempt to get over Mary, whom he was obviously completely in love with the enitre time. For *really* unpopular opinion, I'm going to play: in a way I think she was actually sort of lucky that she walked in on M/M kissing, so she had it in black and white what was going on, since Matthew was clearly too much of a spineless wuss to break up with her. And her deciding to break things off with him was about the only time I *dind't* think she was a doormat - how pathetic would she have to be to "fight for" a cheating boyfriend who's in love with someone else and doesn't want her? She had the self-respect to break things off, quickly and quite gracefully.

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