Season 4 (The Schools): Lambs to the Slaughter Here

[Slovenly Muse]

I love this season so much, it's probably my favourite. (Of course, every time I rewatch another season, I think THAT one's my favourite!) The whole show is grim and brutal and hard to watch, but especially this season, given that the focus is children, and the takeaway is so hopeless.

 

I noticed during my last rewatch something interesting in the opening credits. Towards the end, after that chilling shot of Snoop in the playground, there are about four or five shots in a row of circular objects spinning around. The convenience store wicket, the merry-go-round on the playground, the rims in the auto shop, the old tire being used as a toy... Certainly it's not a coincidence. While the whole show emphasizes the cycle of poverty, this is the season in which many storylines set into motion in season one come full circle. Especially Bodie, who rose in the ranks by shooting his friend dead for being a (potential) snitch, and now suffers the same fate himself in a situation best described as "through a mirror, darkly." And Prezbo, the same guy who once blinded a child for talking back to him, is now giving everything he can to support and inspire his young students. McNulty is approaching full circle, ending the season with one foot back on the ride he swore he'd walked away from. And the projects and the corners have come full circle, with the upheaval of the Barksdale crew, now fully replaced by Marlo's gang, nothing changing, certainly nothing improving.

 

And yet, despite the apparent hopelessness of the situation, despite their parentage and the harsh culture in which they were raised, and being written off by every authority figure in sight, some of these kids are just damn good people. And no matter how bad things get, it's hard to believe they won't eventually be able to find a way to make things better. And that is, at it's core, what I believe makes this season so great.

[ToxicUnicorn]

I noticed during my last rewatch something interesting in the opening credits.

 

I would never have picked up on all of that (so I enjoyed reading it).  I do love the opening credits, though.  (Even if I still think they're really, really long.)  I enjoy playing spot the scene.  It's like Highlights for grown ups, plus watching a puzzle come together.  What a treat.

 

I guess one of the things I'd heard before starting to watch this show is how hard this season hit viewers.  I'm not sure if that over-prepared me for disaster - could be.  I found the first season more devastating, as a result.  This season made me very, very sad about the kids and the schools, but D'Angelo was nearly as much of an innocent caught in the crossfire as these kids were ... these kids were simply younger.  

 

Having said that, Randy is a beautiful boy and his story, as it was ending, is heartbreaking.  Carver sort of stole the season from all of my old favorites on the police/administrative side.  That scene of his frustration in his car - whoever thought of that was a genius.

 

The other greats of the season, I think, were Bubs, Prez, Michael, and maybe even Marlo.  I love that each one of them evolved under our noses, and that I am able to keep picking new favorite characters (and have new appreciation for the actors) every time the stories change.  Even seeing Herc, in the near-end montage, silently hearing his judgement made me pull up short.    

 

I did not particularly warm to Namond and I found his adoption by Colvin to be sort of treacly.  Not that I'm asking for more bad news - it's just, that seemed a bit extreme.  

 

I'm really glad I know that the show will continue for another season.  I certainly want to see how this ends.  Is there anyone who knows when the writers knew there was going to be another season?  (Actually, I have that question for every season.)

[Rinaldo]

Randy is a beautiful boy and his story, as it was ending, is heartbreaking.  

 

I did not particularly warm to Namond and I found his adoption by Colvin to be sort of treacly.  

I'm guessing that not particularly warming to Namond is a widespread reaction (I've seen it stated rather often on different forums). And probably deliberate, as the takeaway (for me, and I suppose it's obvious if not banal) is that which kid happens to make it "out" of their situation has basically nothing to do with who "deserves" it most. I had warmer feelings for all three of the others, but they didn't get the breaks.

 

Randy -- oh, man, he killed me. Watching it years after it aired, I was turning to discussion forums (largely HitFix, a little TWoP) to keep me happy between episodes. I tried to stick to the unspoiled threads, but inevitably, with so much exposure, I got at least near-spoiled for a few developments. No big deal. But Randy calling out Carver... nothing prepared me for that, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. It's one of two moments from the series (the other is in Season 5) that make me cry just to think about them. It's happening right now.

[Slovenly Muse]

 

I guess one of the things I'd heard before starting to watch this show is how hard this season hit viewers.  I'm not sure if that over-prepared me for disaster - could be.  I found the first season more devastating, as a result.

 

Yeah, that first season packs a hell of a wallop. And I think a big part of that is because it's so different from what the "standard" formula for this kind of show is, that you're realizing right to the end that even when the good guys "win," it's about the hollowest victory possible, and there is no possibility for a happy ending to any of it. That's a tough mindset to get into, and the first season really hammers it home in a way that is more shocking than many viewers are expecting. On rewatch, though, I find this season the hardest. I feel like David Simon is reading his audience's mind between seasons. Like, we finish season one with this hopeless thought of, "Ok, so we'll never win the 'War on Drugs' on the street. But what if we could stop the drugs coming in in the first place?" And then he spends the next season carefully pulling apart the import/export aspect of it. And then we go, "Ok, but what if we shook things up politically, and got some not-so-corrupt-and-incompetent people in charge of all this bullshit? They would clean it up and that would fix things, right?" And then we get a good hard look at the mayor's office and the hopeless situation at that end of things. And when that's over, we think, "All these kids being bullied and brainwashed into throwing their lives away in service of these thugs... what if we could get to them first? Maybe we could stop them from getting into the life, and interrupt the cycle enough to cripple the drug trade!" And by the time the season is done, the realization that we actually can't save these kids from this terrible fate is what ends up being, for me anyway, the toughest societal pill to swallow.

 

Because the other seasons, the tragedy comes from adults making decisions for themselves. Even D'Angelo started the series as a murderer, hardly an innocent. The kids are just pure victims. They can't do anything to help themselves out of their situation. One of the toughest moments for me was when Michael was afraid of his brother's father and what the man might do to his brother... but even with all the kind, compassionate adults in his life, people who would do anything to make life better for him and his peers, who genuinely care about him and want him to be safe... the only person Michael feels he can go to for help is the murdering thug who supplies his mother and her "friends" with drugs in the first place. And it's not hard to see why.

 

 

I did not particularly warm to Namond and I found his adoption by Colvin to be sort of treacly.

 

Yeah, I never really came to care too much for Namond, but I did really like his story. Of everyone on the corners, at his school, in his social circle, Namond was the only one who really had advantages. He had money, he had the power that comes with his father's name, and he had, I think, no desire whatsoever to be dealing drugs. He had a soft temperament, compassion, humanity, and he should have had a choice. It was really rough watching his parents, who should have wanted the best for him, pushing him towards one of the worst lives he could have, against his wishes and against his natural inclinations. All the aggression and frustration he displayed was borne by being forced into a life he hated and wasn't cut out for. The only kid on those corners who really had a choice, and his own parents took it away. Not because they were driven to by something as implacable as addiction, but because they were just genuinely horrible people. And what's the takeaway? Not necessarily that it's random who makes it out or not, but more that the kids who already have advantages are the only ones with a shot.

 

 

But Randy calling out Carver... nothing prepared me for that, and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

That was brutal. I got shivers all over and made noises I don't care to describe. Even worse, though, for me, was his resigned forgiveness at the end. "It's okay. You tried." I may have wept a little.

 

Wow. It turns out I have more feels about this season than I thought.

[ToxicUnicorn]

More thumbs up to you than I have thumbs, Slovenly Muse. 

 

The only kid on those corners who really had a choice, and his own parents took it away. Not because they were driven to by something as implacable as addiction, but because they were just genuinely horrible people. And what's the takeaway?  Not necessarily that it's random who makes it out or not, but more that the kids who already have advantages are the only ones with a shot.

 

I'm beginning to see the arguments for Namond's story.  It's true, he had different circumstances through his parents than the rest.  The money and the name, particularly.  Were his parents genuinely horrible people?  Making horrible choices for their kid, yes.  But his situation sort of makes me think of the stereotypical tiger mom who drives their soft-hearted artistic child to be a neurosurgeon or a corporate litigator.  There's no question parental behavior like this can damage a kid - the tougher part, for me, is where to draw the line in judgement of the parents.  (Not that I liked Namond's parents, mind you.)

 

The other wrinkle is that, even though Namond had the external advantages, he wasn't really better off emotionally or in social maturity than Michael.  Michael at least had a baby brother who looked up to him and made him feel needed.  He also had Cutty and the gym.  Michael's mom didn't abuse him the way Namond's did, she neglected him and reversed positions with him instead.  I guess it's arguable which is worse.  (clearly not a psychologist, here) 
 

 

Because the other seasons, the tragedy comes from adults making decisions for themselves. Even D'Angelo started the series as a murderer, hardly an innocent. The kids are just pure victims.

 

The kids ARE pure victims.  "No doubt."  That hurts and can't be ignored, and I suspect is why a lot of people who say The Wire should be required viewing for everyone, not just TV fans.  And I had forgotten Dee started the series as a murderer.  (So hard to keep track of all the crimes.)

 

I still think there are victims galore here (some of them happen also to have committed crimes, some of them happen to be paid to see situations that they really can't make a dent in, no matter how hard they try).

 

I haven't seen it mentioned: I liked the storyline with the experimental classroom and the well-intentioned researcher.  A lot, actually.  I especially liked the teacher (don't know if I ever learned her name) and Zenobia's reactions to the classroom ending and being back in Prez's classroom.

 

Colvin's comment, something like, "They're going to study your study?" was really pointed and so true.  I liked that a lot.  It needed to be said.

 

That was brutal.

 

Yes.  Great summary.

[Constantinople]

It wasn't exactly a cycle, but that ring of Andre's sure moved around a lot.

Marlo extorted the ring from Andre as a kind of forbearance on the debt that Andre owned, and Marlo refused to absolve, after Omar robbed Andre.

Omar then stole the ring from Marlo when Omar held-up the poker game

Officer Walker stole the ring from Omar after he arrested Omar on the framed murder charge set-up by Marlo and Chris

Michael stole the ring from Officer Walker after arranging after he and his friends tossed yellow paint on Walker (at gunpoint?) as revenge for Walker breaking Donut's finger(s)

Michael latter offered the ring to Marlo when Marlo noticed it, but Marlo declined.

Not sure what it all means, except, perhaps, a visual symbol the connects many of the story lines in Season 4.

 

The kids are just pure victims.

 
Of the main four kids -- Randy, Michael, Dukie & Namond -- Namond is probably the least sympathetic, at least at first (though when your mother is so awful she makes your mass murdering hit man father look good, you obviously have a lot of problems).
 
But the one kid I hated, and I know it's terrible to say, is Kenard.
 
With all of the other kids, I felt as if the system shaped their character.  With Kenard, I felt it revealed his.  That if he had been in a privileged background he would have grown-up to be some asshole investment banker, CEO or Congressman.  
 
I can't point to any scene, it's just a feeling of mine.
 
It's probably not fair given that Kenard is the youngest, and as far as I recall, we don't see anything about his home life, but I just can't shake it.

[AuntiePam]

I didn't warm to Namond either.  It was easy to like the other three but Namond was all mouth.  He didn't have Michael's strength, Randy's ambition, Dookie's sweetness.  On this re-watch, I'm seeing him as scared and insecure, the bluster as a front.  Now I feel bad for disliking him.  I blame my own social conditioning. 

 

But Sherrod -- that poor kid. 

[ToxicUnicorn]

(though when your mother is so awful she makes your mass murdering hit man father look good, you obviously have a lot of problems).

 

Three points!

 

But the one kid I hated, and I know it's terrible to say, is Kenard.

 

I have absolutely no idea who this is.  Was this Namond's stash holder?  Help!

 

On this re-watch, I'm seeing him as scared and insecure, the bluster as a front.  Now I feel bad for disliking him.  I blame my own social conditioning.

 

And ... an elephant walks into the room.  I'd be interested in this discussion if it went on in another thread.  (Not sure what I would say, but I'd be interested.)

[AuntiePam]

 

I have absolutely no idea who this is.  Was this Namond's stash holder?  Help!

 

Yep, that's him. 

 

Toxic Unicorn, not sure what you mean by "elephant". ??

[AuntiePam]

By "social conditioning", I mean that through movies and TV and maybe my own life, I was conditioned to see Namond as a wuss, a "chicken".  He didn't stand up to his mom, to the boy who attacked him at the gym, or even that foul-mouthed little Kenard.  Namond used his mouth as a weapon, and even then, it was only to people whom he knew wouldn't get physical with him (teachers, and Colvin).  I wanted someone to kick his ass, shut him up.  Grow a pair or shut the F up, Namond. 

 

This is from years and years of TV and movies where characters who don't back down from a fight are more admired than characters who are smart enough to avoid the fight. 

 

Or something like that. :-)

[ToxicUnicorn]

I didn't warm to Namond either.  It was easy to like the other three but Namond was all mouth.  He didn't have Michael's strength, Randy's ambition, Dookie's sweetness.  On this re-watch, I'm seeing him as scared and insecure, the bluster as a front.  Now I feel bad for disliking him.  I blame my own social conditioning.

 

By "social conditioning", I mean that through movies and TV and maybe my own life, I was conditioned to see Namond as a wuss, a "chicken

 

Glad you wrote again, AuntiePam, especially because your explanation did not go where I thought it was going.  

 

I thought there might be a proverbial elephant in the room about how each of our backgrounds (social conditioning) led us to perceive Namond as less sympathetic than the others.  For me, it can't be that he had a loud mouth.  It certainly wasn't his hair or appearance.  It wasn't that he did not stand up to his mom (I come from a long tradition of feeling bad for opposing your elders).  So, what was it?  I don;t know.  I don't think it was the actor - he did a fine job.  Then, what?

 

Sorry if I'm not being clear.  I'm pretty tired, end of the week and watching lots of episodes at night and all.

[AuntiePam]

 

I thought there might be a proverbial elephant in the room about how each of our backgrounds (social conditioning) led us to perceive Namond as less sympathetic than the others.

 

I get'cha.   

 

In addition to Namond being a physical coward, he was the only one of the four boys who had any kind of advantages.  I expected more from him because he had things the other kids didn't -- on the surface.   He had a mother who loved him, a safe home, a father with influence.   It took awhile for me to understand that his mother's love was toxic, the home wasn't really safe, and that Bey's influence was the biggest part of Namond's problem.  He was supposed to want to be like his dad, but it wasn't in him. 

 

So I was looking at Namond's advantages, comparing him to the other three boys, and wondering why he had to be so difficult.  It's like when we look at someone who "has everything" and can't get their life together.  That's part of what I meant by "social conditioning".  We expect people with advantages to do better -- or at least to have an easier row to hoe -- than those who have nothing.

 

With Namond, I had to understand that his problems were inside him, that even though he had the material things, he had nothing else. 

[Brooklynista]

I never thought about the similarities between Delonda and Briana (D'Angelo's) mother. Both of these women turned their sons over to the streets and expected them to be nothing less than Bumpy Johnson's. Both of them could have used the money they gained from the profits from the streets they receive through Wee Bey's muscling or Avon's dealing and given their sons a completely different life. Both mothers had money enough to send the boys to private schools and college and offer the boys a way out but instead they released them to the corner.

DeLonda was a hoodrat and I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from her. Demanding Namond beat the shit out of Kenard for losing (stealing) a package was just heartbreaking. She knew that wasn't who Namond was and she didn't care. She just wanted him to soldier like Wee Bey, no matter the consequences.

But Briana. Briana had the smarts to know D'Angelo could have been more. More than a kingpin, but that's all she wanted for her son. When she had him take the years so the drug trade could keep rolling, again heartbreak.

Namond got lucky and was given a way out. Dangelo's life was pretty much decided for him straight thru to the end.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Interesting line of thought, Brooklynista.  I hadn't given much thought to these mothers as active participants in the drug syndicate (or whatever you call it).  I guess I had viewed them as fairly impotent or, at most, reactive.  But now I'm thinking they were more powerful than I thought, and took a more active role in the destruction (or near-destruction, in Namond's case) of these kids than I thought.

[DarkRaichu]

Namond was an intellectual living in a society where physical strength and a level of cruelty were required to survive.  The expectation that was put on him being WeeBey's kid was really unfair.  He was fish out of water.

 

I did not really see the above until the conclusion of season 5, though.

 

ETA: I hated his hair

Edited January 26, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Slovenly Muse]

Interesting thoughts about Briana and DeLonda. It's so hard to imagine any mother wanting that kind of life for her son. Then again, I think it's important to remember that these were two women who were very deeply entrenched in a culture/society that is deeply misogynistic. While both had a high standing within this society, neither had any real power. Briana's opinion counted for something, but she didn't have any power or influence beyond what she could convince Avon and D'Angelo to do. DeLonda had no influence at all, beyond the specter of her husband's name. Both women were doing their best in a society that would award them next to zero power, influence, or respect. Their only way to survive in the world they were living in (the world they had no choice but to live in) was to attach themselves to powerful men who could protect them and wield influence on their behalf. Briana wielded power through Avon so effectively that she IS able to manage certain affairs in his absence without her authority being challenged, but only because the family is out of power. (No one would follow her into a war against Marlo, for example, if that was still on the table.)

 

DeLonda wasn't born into a powerful family. Her only shot at surviving this culture was to attach herself to a man who had the power to look after her. NO ONE would disrespect her when she was married to Wee Bey. But without the power to earn any respect for herself, all the respect she received was secondhand, and relative to her husband's position in the organization. With Wee Bey in prison, the only man who could get her back the power and influence that she had lost became her son. Is it any wonder that she pushed him so mercilessly? He was her only shot at being something more than a corner rat herself. (Note that she only let Namond go after Wee Bey outright THREATENED her. This is how much her husband respects her, and how desperate she is to retain the shreds of influence she has left.)

 

I think it's interesting that the show went through pains to show us throughout the seasons just how far a woman can advance in the Barksdale organization (i.e., not at all, which is a lesson D'Angelo's stripper girlfriend learned the hard way in season one). It gives just the right amount of context to characters like this, who live in constant danger, and who have no power or protection beyond what the men around them choose to give. In this way, we can still hate their guts for the things they do, but a good portion of that hatred gets deflected back to the broken system in which they live (like with everything else on this show). Marlo has a female underling (Snoop), but overall he doesn't seem to be any more progressive in that respect than anyone else on the corners. Every woman's gotta do what she's gotta do to survive the life she's been handed. It doesn't excuse her for being an awful person, but it does go a ways to explaining her. It's downright monstrous that the only way for some people to survive this life is to actively perpetuate the cycle onto the next generation. Yet another reason The Wire shows us why the cycle of poverty is so damn hard to break.

[monakane]

 

Every woman's gotta do what she's gotta do to survive the life she's been handed. It doesn't excuse her for being an awful person, but it does go a ways to explaining her. It's downright monstrous that the only way for some people to survive this life is to actively perpetuate the cycle onto the next generation.

 

I am currently watching The Wire for the first time.  I'm in the middle of season 4.   The mothers in this show do not ring true to me.  It's hard for me to understand why any mother would want that kind of life for her child.  Every season shows mothers in the worst possible light.  I know there are horrible mothers in the world, but I would like to see one mother in The Wire universe who puts her child first.  

[DarkRaichu]

I am currently watching The Wire for the first time.  I'm in the middle of season 4.   The mothers in this show do not ring true to me.  It's hard for me to understand why any mother would want that kind of life for her child.  Every season shows mothers in the worst possible light.  I know there are horrible mothers in the world, but I would like to see one mother in The Wire universe who puts her child first.  

Money was very attractive and this was pretty much a "career" these people with barely any education could have had.

[AuntiePam]

 

I know there are horrible mothers in the world, but I would like to see one mother in The Wire universe who puts her child first.

 

The show didn't have any of those, but I think they did a good job with the female characters, in general.  Cutty's ex, Miss Anna, the teachers at Tilghman, Bubbles' sister, even Lex's mom. 

[Slovenly Muse]

 

I would like to see one mother in The Wire universe who puts her child first.

 

Well, to be fair, we're talking about two specific women placed relatively highly in a completely-male-controlled structure. It takes some leaps of empathy to understand why they act the way they do, and part of it is that they are just awful people. But let's not set up a double-standard. A mother pushing her son into becoming a high-ranking and respected member of a group that may protect him from becoming one of that very group's victims, is an awful person. But is she really more awful than the men who murder each other over territory and vague possibility of betrayal? Or the men who sell drugs to junkies on their last legs, knowing that shot could be their last? Or the men who recruit and set up children to be murderers before they're even out of middle school? There is more than enough despicable behaviour going around to condemn everybody. Why is a mother's failure of humanity more appalling than a father's? DeLonda and Briane's actions are the ones I find MOST understandable (though still not forgivable).

 

And the show does have a fair share of mothers who put their kids first. Miss Anna, Beadie, Elena, Kima's ex, all the mothers and grandmothers that have sat silent in their homes as the police tore the place apart, afraid that a misplaced word on their part could sentence their child to death on the streets... On balance, it tends to be the fathers BY FAR who mistreat their families on this show. Including Wee Bey, who wanted Namond on the corners every bit as much as DeLonda did (and that was the least of his crimes). So I think it's important not to fixate on only vilifying the women who don't live up to our parental standards. Nearly every single character on this show is a monster in some respect.

 

And DarkRaichu is right. We saw in season one how hopeless the future seemed for the people in the projects. Joining the drug dealers and rising in the ranks seemed to be the only way any of the kids there ever moved up, the only future that was possible for them, the situation being what it was. Briane and DeLonda both owed everything they had to that organization, and would lose everything if they were to leave it. So really, what were their alternatives? Not to say they didn't have a choice at all, because of course they did. I'm only saying that context is important, especially when judging other people and their choices.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Slovenly Muse

[monakane]

 

So I think it's important not to fixate on only vilifying the women who don't live up to our parental standards. Nearly every single character on this show is a monster in some respect.

 

I agree with you that the men on the show are also horrible people.  The difference to me is that they are written in a far more complex way than people like DeLonda and Brianne.

[Schweedie]

Even worse, though, for me, was his resigned forgiveness at the end. "It's okay. You tried." I may have wept a little.

 

Wow. It turns out I have more feels about this season than I thought.

 

I don't think any scene on this show broke my heart more than that one. Even then, probably terrified of what was going to happen, he knew Carver was feeling just as badly and tried to take some of the weight off. Randy was such a sweet kid and his storyline hit me the hardest of all the boys', for some reason. Maybe because what what happened to him could so easily have been avoided.

 

I've never made it all the way through 4x13, in that I've never watched Bodie's last scene. The first time I watched, when I realised what was about to happen I found a reason to get up and leave the room for a minute, and I still just can't bring myself to watch it. I never would've thought it after the first season, but Bodie really grew into one of my favourite characters.

 

As did Carver, equally unexpectedly. Serving under Bunny was clearly the best thing that could've happened to him, because he's nearly unrecognisable from the guy he was in the first season - and it feels earned. He spent season 3 learning and came out on the other side.

I just wish he'd gone straight from leaving Randy at the group home to beat Herc's ass.

[Rinaldo]

Randy was such a sweet kid and his storyline hit me the hardest of all the boys', for some reason. Maybe because what what happened to him could so easily have been avoided.

The way it's shown to us, there's so much we see could have been avoided for the boys. But yeah, Randy's story hit me the hardest, too. I get the impression that that's a widely shared reaction. It's one of the rare TV-fiction situations where I can't stop my mind from exploring alternate realities for a different outcome: what if Carver really had pursed the idea of qualifying for adoption, even if it took a while, and then come back for Randy?

 

Another such is Dukie's story. Here, I'm torn as a teacher, because the advice that Prez got was appropriate, in general terms: however much you care and want to do your best for your students, you can't make them your own children, you have to let go when the time comes, you can't save everyone, all that. But still... we've seen enough that I think, even one more semester in Prez's class, now that the kid has attained a little equilibrium, might make all the difference for his future and give him the security he'll need. But of course when you're in it you can't be omniscient, and there'll always be more kids next year who need just as much of your attention. This whole season kills me.

 

It's true about Carver. We see him grow in stages. And even that lecture from Bunny, which seemed out of the blue at the time -- we see what it leads to, Carver hasn't let down his standards but is part of the community and really being all that he can be (to coin a phrase). And of course Seth Gilliam is a hell of an actor.

[AuntiePam]

 

Another such is Dukie's story. Here, I'm torn as a teacher, because the advice that Prez got was appropriate, in general terms: however much you care and want to do your best for your students, you can't make them your own children, you have to let go when the time comes, you can't save everyone, all that. But still... we've seen enough that I think, even one more semester in Prez's class, now that the kid has attained a little equilibrium, might make all the difference for his future and give him the security he'll need. But of course when you're in it you can't be omniscient, and there'll always be more kids next year who need just as much of your attention. This whole season kills me.

 

But would one more semester have given Dukie the security to overcome the meanness of his fellow students?  All it took to turn Dukie around was a couple of kids giving him the stinkeye because of that awful coat.  Those corners ain't got nuthin' on the violence that is high school.

[Rinaldo]

Of course what you say is true, AuntiePam. It's the irrational, wants-a-happy-ending part of my head that tells me that, having done so much better in just his short time with Prez, another semester might have solidified the gain enough for him to hang on to himself. But in reality, this is what we have.

[Dobian]

I just finished season 4 myself.  Prez's class was the highlight of the season for me, and how things ended up for Dukie and Randy was very heartbreaking.  I was really rooting for them, they were two kids you could see going places if their circumstances were better.  Michael's going to the dark side and coming under Chris and Snoop's influence was also tragic.  The whole cycle of failure in the school system, from the numbers game, to the cancellation of Colvin's program, to the politics of Carcetti refusing the bailout, was very depressing.  But an important lesson in some of the reasons why schools fail.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Dobian

[Reishe]

Hi all--I'm nearing the end of my season 4 rewatch, and today I got to wondering: does anyone know why Felicia Pearson chose to use her real name as her character's name? I can't believe TPTB would have made that choice on their own. I understand that she didn't have a background in acting and it might have been easier for her to play a girl named Snoop, but why did she choose to use her own full name for a character who is a heartless, unlkeable assassin. Did any of you see any discussion of this when it was first on the air?

[larapu2000]

I started crying uncontrollably when McNulty and Bunk are at dinner with their kids, talking about what they want to be when they grow up. Fucking tragic that the kids on the streets never have conversations like this, ever, with anyone.

I am binge watching the show, and finished season 4 last night before The Walking Dead finale. The zombie apocalypse is a goddamn lighthearted romp compared to the streets.

[Emily Thrace]

I started crying uncontrollably when McNulty and Bunk are at dinner with their kids, talking about what they want to be when they grow up. Fucking tragic that the kids on the streets never have conversations like this, ever, with anyone

.What interesting is that McNulty and Bunk kids are not that far removed from the cycle of poverty We don't learn  much about Bunk's background but his speech makes it fairly obvious he didn't come from money (Really the only clue is his lacrosse sweatshirt which makes me think he was a ghetto kid who got out via athletic scholarship). McNulty's season two monologue about his dad makes it clear he was from a poorer working class background.  Really without a few lucky breaks and good decision on their parents parts those kids could have been Ziggy or Micheal.

 

Part of that is the show overall motif that the cops are not all that different than the criminals they pursue. I also think it included in this season in particular to point out that the cycle of poverty can be broken. Not to mention the impact fathers can have in their kids lives. Although I do think more than anything the point is how money and the stability and options it offers affects what kids can be.

 

I love that the show took time to criticize standardized testing. Its something that I think does so much harm and really limits kids from poorer backgrounds. I think contributes to why Americans get mocked as morons (I don't know if some of you realize this happens but its a fairly common opinion on the northern side of the border).  I work for an American company and while I have definitely known some intelligent Americans you are a very literal bunch who struggle when it comes to problem solving a scarily high percentage of the time.(Although my company does deal with more of the lower end of the income spectrum) Standardize testing is probably part of the problem there. Teaching kids how to pick a,b c or d doesn't help people learn to problem solve and figure out when the answer is actually e.

 

but why did she choose to use her own full name for a character who is a heartless, unlkeable assassin. Did any of you see any discussion of this when it was first on the air?

 

Aw I liked Snoop, I think like most of the wire characters she was a product of her environment. I don't see her as heartless I think she was a good soldier who was committed to doing her job. I think she could be called cold but she was also very loyal to Chris and kind to Micheal in her own way.

 

I agree with you that the men on the show are also horrible people.  The difference to me is that they are written in a far more complex way than people like DeLonda and Brianne.

I think this is a fair point. While The Wire does try its depiction of women is still flawed. In the end its a male driven story written mainly by men. That doesn't make it a bad show it just means its not perfect. Its actually probably the one area David Simon truly improved on with Treme.

[GodsBeloved]

Of everyone on the corners, at his school, in his social circle, Namond was the only one who really had advantages. He had money, he had the power that comes with his father's name

Though he didn't get the break that Namond got, Randy had advantages too. He had a nice roof over his head. He had food on the table. He had clean clothes to wear AND he was a business man (I loved that about Randy).

 

Most of all, he had Ms Anna who cared about and watched over him. As Michael said when Randy complained about being on a leash, at least you got a leash. I would even argue that given Delonda, no amount of money or power from Weebay was more of an advantage to Namond than Ms Anna was to Randy. Randy had what was the most important thing. He had an adult who wanted what was best for him and who stepped up.

 

The money and power weren't as advantageous to Namond because of Delonda's mindset plus the fact that Namond didn't have it in him. He wouldn't even take his package back after Michael gave Kenard that beat down. I think Colvin was on the money when he told Weebay that if Namond stayed out there he'd be in jail or the grave soon. 

 

The only kid on those corners who really had a choice, and his own parents took it away. Not because they were driven to by something as implacable as addiction, but because they were just genuinely horrible people. And what's the takeaway?  Not necessarily that it's random who makes it out or not, but more that the kids who already have advantages are the only ones with a shot.

 

Namond's advantages played no part in him making it out. He didn't get noticed by Colvin because he had money or because he was Weebay's son. But for Namond being disruptive in class, he may never have crossed paths with Colvin. Namond got out because of who he is and I don't mean being WeeBay's son. Colvin saw past Namond's talk and saw the boy who wouldn't lay a hand on Kenard even with dragon Delonda breathing down his neck. He saw the boy who just didn't have the street life in him.

 

The other wrinkle is that, even though Namond had the external advantages, he wasn't really better off emotionally or in social maturity than Michael.  Michael at least had a baby brother who looked up to him and made him feel needed.  He also had Cutty and the gym.  Michael's mom didn't abuse him the way Namond's did, she neglected him and reversed positions with him instead.  I guess it's arguable which is worse.  (clearly not a psychologist, here)I agree.

 

 

I agree.

 

I didn't warm to Namond either.  It was easy to like the other three but Namond was all mouth.  He didn't have Michael's strength, Randy's ambition, Dookie's sweetness.  On this re-watch, I'm seeing him as scared and insecure, the bluster as a front.

As Colvin said, full up of corner talk LOL. That Colvin/Weebay scene is one of the best of the series.

 

I loved all the boys, even Namond. All of them equally deserved to get out.

[funkopop]

I'm in the middle of rewatching this season and Namond reminds me of Dee, so I never minded him getting that happy ending that Dee wasn't able to.  I also really like Marlo. I'm reminded of an episode in Season 3 where Poot confronts Carver and Herc (I believe) telling them how older people swear the next generation is always worse than the previous.  I feel like Marlo's character represents that sort of deterioration.  I remember reading on some board about what would have happened if Bubbles had tried the red hat trick on Marlo's crew and how it wouldn't be all laughs and smiles if Snoop or Chris got a hold of him.  I appreciate the change in tone Marlo brings to the drug game this season and also seeing how the older crews are having to deal with him.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Most of all, he had Ms Anna who cared about and watched over him.

 

Maybe I wasn't paying attention.  I didn't get the impression Ms. Anna was invested in Randy or gave him any emotional support.  Physical, yes, but I thought she was pretty negative.  One of those people where you wonder why in the world she decided to be a foster parent.  I'll have to watch again.

 

Namond's advantages played no part in him making it out. He didn't get noticed by Colvin because he had money or because he was Weebay's son. But for Namond being disruptive in class, he may never have crossed paths with Colvin.

 

That's a great point.

 

telling them how older people swear the next generation is always worse than the previous.  I feel like Marlo's character represents that sort of deterioration.

 

This helps the Marlo-Chris-Snoop story click for me a little better.  Although I still find it terrifying as hell.

[funkopop]

 

 

Of the main four kids -- Randy, Michael, Dukie & Namond -- Namond is probably the least sympathetic, at least at first (though when your mother is so awful she makes your mass murdering hit man father look good, you obviously have a lot of problems).

 

But the one kid I hated, and I know it's terrible to say, is Kenard.

 

With all of the other kids, I felt as if the system shaped their character.  With Kenard, I felt it revealed his.  That if he had been in a privileged background he would have grown-up to be some asshole investment banker, CEO or Congressman.  

 

I can't point to any scene, it's just a feeling of mine.

 

It's probably not fair given that Kenard is the youngest, and as far as I recall, we don't see anything about his home life, but I just can't shake it.

 

I have to agree with you on Kenard.  Out of all the kids we encountered this season, in Prez's class, Colvin's class, Donut, I just HATED Kenard.  So much so that I rewound the beating Michael gave him a couple of times.  Michael did him a favor, maybe he learned to temper that mouth of his afterwards.

 

And speaking of I did find it interesting that Michael gave Kenard a full on beat down but sort of bitch slapped Namond.  I wonder if that was a intentional choice.  I sort of saw it as Michael not even giving Namond the respect of having to fully go to blows on him, he saw right through his bravado and gave him what he thought he deserved.

[GodsBeloved]

Maybe I wasn't paying attention.  I didn't get the impression Ms. Anna was invested in Randy or gave him any emotional support.  Physical, yes, but I thought she was pretty negative.  One of those people where you wonder why in the world she decided to be a foster parent.  I'll have to watch again.

Is there something specific that Ms Anna did or said that you saw as negative? She came across as stern but that in and of itself isn't a bad or negative thing.After it had come out that Randy snitched, she was concerned enough about him to worry about him being home alone. She also went as far as thinking about moving Randy to another school.

 

Regarding Kenard, I think he was a psychopath (I hope that's the correct term). I forgot which episode it was but there is a scene of Kenard trying to set a cat on fire.

[Eeksquire]

 

Is there something specific that Ms Anna did or said that you saw as negative? She came across as stern but that in and of itself isn't a bad or negative thing.

Chiming in late (as always) because I just finished this season.  I think part of my suspicion of Ms. Anna was the way that the season was structured - in the beginning, we didn't see much of her and what we did could really have gone either way.  In hindsight, 'stern' seems like the right read, but at the time, it seemed like it could be the stereotypical 'bad foster parent' storyline.  Pointing to one incident in particular, I'd say that when Randy got home a little after some time (9?) and she chided him for being late - at that moment in the season, it seemed to me to be a bit off for a foster parent to turn a 12 or 13 year old loose in Baltimore and not expect them to come home - at all - until 9pm.  

 

I'm willing to believe that's partly because I currently live in a place that is the epitome of suburban irrational panic where kids aren't allowed to be outside alone, never mind after dark, but partly because even in the more liberal times of my youth, I was expected to be home at dark until I could drive.

[AmandaPanda]

I'm only a couple episodes in at this point, but I already can tell you the portrayal of Baltimore schools is depressingly realistic. I'm an elementary school teacher in the city through an alternative teacher certification program. I suspect that Prez is supposed to be a part of Baltimore City Teaching Residency. Mine is a similar one, but is newer than BCTR. I just cringe to see how little has changed in the schools since this aired in 2006.

[qtpye]

Not much to add, but this season was one of the best and most heartbreaking things I have ever seen in my life.  The unfairness and stacked odds that good kids have to go through was really handled well.

Can you imagine what Dookie could have been if he had been born into a lower middle class household with at least one caring parent?  We knew he was smart and curious.  We never saw his people, but even for Baltimore, everyone always talked about the squalor and horror of his home life.

I sometimes wonder about what happened to these kids...like they were real people.

I am actually glad that one kid (by sheer chance of luck) got out, even if he was not my favorite.

[Raja]

On 6/15/2016 at 1:21 PM, AmandaPanda said:

I'm only a couple episodes in at this point, but I already can tell you the portrayal of Baltimore schools is depressingly realistic. I'm an elementary school teacher in the city through an alternative teacher certification program. I suspect that Prez is supposed to be a part of Baltimore City Teaching Residency. Mine is a similar one, but is newer than BCTR. I just cringe to see how little has changed in the schools since this aired in 2006.

I was in Compton CA in 1989 with that first generation of kids like Namond being raised as gangsters from birth, it was the same there

Edited July 13, 2016 by Raja

[snarktini]

On 1/26/2015 at 10:44 AM, Slovenly Muse said:

It's so hard to imagine any mother wanting that kind of life for her son.

 

While these mothers (and fathers) are misguided and selfish, in their way they are doing what is right for their children given the context they live in. 

Your community’s main industry is drugs. Your kid’s dad is a soldier. That's how you stay protected and get paid. To be respected and successful in this community is to follow that path. This is exactly what you want for your son, not because you're selfish but because this is what makes sense in this reality. (This could happen in a non-criminal yet dangerous situation, like coming from a coal mining town. Lots of people used to die in the mines who should have gotten out.) If your kid, like Namond, is soft, you have to toughen them up if you want them to stay safe.  They’re Tiger moms of the hood. You push and you push, whether your kid likes it or not. Builds character.

Yes, they should move, send their kids out to better schools, encourage them to leave. Two reasons that’s harder than it should be:

1) Saying you want your child to escape is an indictment of the life you live. If you see nothing inherently wrong with your life, why would you want them to leave it? If your husband is respected and successful, why wouldn’t you want that for your kid? This is the family business. This is misguided, but it can be tough to untangle those feelings.

2) You have to have the imagination to believe something else is possible. It’s hard to envision a life that is so foreign to everything you’ve ever lived. My life must seem as fictional and foreign to Dookie as his is to me. I have a couple of friends who escaped dangerous childhoods, and this is something they talk about. They were told that getting out or going away to college is something that happens on TV or to other kids, not us. And even when they do go, the dropout rate for first generation students is super high because they often lack the cultural knowledge to navigate university life. Remember how lost Marlo felt when tried putting on a suit and rubbing elbows? Leaving is not as simple as leaving. 

At any rate, I think they’re horrible parents sending out their children to die. But whether you're sending your child into a gang, the mines, war, the ivy league… context can influence what honor and success look like. I can judge it, while seeing it as a logical choice.

Edited August 28, 2016 by snarktini

[Irate Panda]

On 1/23/2015 at 9:47 AM, Constantinople said:

Of the main four kids -- Randy, Michael, Dukie & Namond -- Namond is probably the least sympathetic, at least at first (though when your mother is so awful she makes your mass murdering hit man father look good, you obviously have a lot of problems).
 
But the one kid I hated, and I know it's terrible to say, is Kenard.
 

I totally agree with your assessment about Namond's mom making Weebey (sp??) look damn near respectable and as far as I remember it's been a long time I don't think she was hooked on drugs or anything just plain old mean although I guess she'd could be diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder.

Oh my little Kenard....I ain't gonna lie I giggled like a school girl when Michael beat his ass in season 4. My bf was like are you really laughing at 8 year old getting his ass kicked? I should have been embarrassed but i wasn't. I hated Kenard.  

[Zola]

Much has been said here about the schoolkids in this season, and rightly so. But my heart also went out to poor Bubbs, who never got a single break throughout the season, and in some respects his social standing and outlook in life, is considerably lower than that of the kids.

He tries to be enterprising through selling t-shirts rather than drugs, but still gets slammed and bullied by lowlife; and again when he calls out for help from the police they let him down - intentionally or otherwise. He even attempts to take his own life at the police station for inadvertently/indirectly killing his friend, Sherrod. The look of helplessness and self-loathing on his face when he talks to Bunk, pleading with him to lock him up for his own good, is gut-wrenching; and I couldn't help myself but shed a few tears for his dreadful plight.

He doesn't have a bad bone in his body; he is not a bully, he is not aggressive or belligerent; he tries to be helpful, polite, friendly despite the fact he is a junkie. He is also quite educated too (in season 2 he knows what a cleat is, as well as how to tie a boat knot; which is something McNulty isn't capable of). He is an excellent CI for both Greggs and McNutty, with the latter expressing his admiration for Bubbs by giving him $20 a time for "admiring the work".

But to see Bubbs in the hospital in the final episode of S4. He is sitting there all alone other than a nurse dressing a nearby Christmas tree. His friend and sponsor, Walon, arrives to comfort him, but Bubbles breaks into floods of tears while Greggs looks on before walking away. 

My God did I cry over that scene, especially given the significance of Christmas. I just wanted to reach out to Bubbles and hug him and reassure him that everything would be okay. But I hated Greggs for walking off. I don't know what her reasoning was, but I hated her for it; especially given that when she was shot in S1, Bubbles was beside himself with grief for her. But when the tables were turned she came across as not really giving a shit for him - probably thinking "damn I lost my CI!"