S05.E09: Live And Learn

[SoCal4Us]

Lemondrop 16, I agree that this is Lisa's (and Max's) preemptive strike.  She is totally prepared to take any heat IMO.

[BluishGreen]

I kinda agree, Aunt Kiki, but Brandi and Kyle are just women his wife fights with and he has been very clear that he doesn't like them.

Max is his son.

Instead of focusing on his genetic differences, perhaps Ken and Lisa should see Max's similarities with his adopted father-- both Max and Ken act like spoiled, immature a-holes.

Edited January 17, 2015 by BluishGreen

[LotusFlower]

I've found Ken to be very impatient this season - like he's over the whole reality TV shtick.   I am just speculating but I think he doesn't suffer fools gladly and he has had enough of Max's irresponsibility.  He does defer to Lisa on mostly everything but he seemed to be exasperated at Lisa for lunching with Kyle and then with Brandi - and it wouldn't be a surprise if he was past his limit with Max and was annoyed with Lisa for having him over as the conversation with him didn't seem to accomplish much.

But I think there's a difference between questioning the smartness of Lisa going to lunch with one of the HW's/frienemies, and having a discussion with your son. And even on the former - yes, some of these get-togethers are ridiculous. In real life, Lisa would never have lunch with the ladies after last year's shenanigans. But she has to because she decided to return to the show. And Ken not only knows this, but he apparently likes the cameras as well, and frequently participates, so he seems pretty disingenuous. On the latter, this clearly was a scene in his home where he was asked, and agreed, to participate. I don't think it was cool for him to walk out the way he did, both in his role as father, nor in his role on the show, frustrated or not. You stick it out - esp. as a father.

Instead of focusing on his genetic differences, perhaps Ken and Lisa should see Max's similarities with his adopted father-- both Max and Ken act like spoiled, immature a-holes.

Nicely done!

[FozzyBear]

Re: Ken reactions to Max. For all of Lisa's career woman moxie, I don't really buy that she was super involved before the kids were at least teenagers. I think they had a really traditional household where Ken worked, probably between 70-80 hours a week, and Lisa did everything at home. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Lisa did most of the care taking for Ken's other son too. This isn't a critism exactly, I just don't think Ken is used to dealing with the domestic issues until a check needs to be written.

Edited January 17, 2015 by FozzyBear

[RedheadZombie]

Just because of my personal experience with adoption (the friend I mentioned, another friend, 2 cousins, me ex, one of my best friends younger siblings) the Foster Care thing has always rung a bell with me. As you can see, adoption isn't outside my world view and every case I mentioned has different circumstances, but adopting from Foster Care is a whole different ball of wax. I don't have any idea of how Foster Care works in the UK, but as soon as they mentioned moving to the USA when Pandora wanted to go to Pepperdine and Max being adopted from Foster Care, I started to wonder. There isn't any practical reason to move so Pandora can go to Pepperdine (if she had said UCLA maybe preferential admission or lower tuition), it's a private school so being out of country shouldn't hurt her chances. And as much as Lisa and Ken seem to adore both their kids and having a close family dynamic, I also don't see them as the type that would object to their kids following a great opportunity, plus Pepperdine is a great school, but hardly the best if the best of American schools ( I'm just saying it's not Harvard). I kind of wondered if one of Max's birth parents was making noise and they were scared and jumped on the chance to move him away from what they thought was a bad influence or a possible court battle. This is based on nothing, by the way.

 

Max was adopted at six weeks.  His biological parents wouldn't recognize him, and his adopted name would have changed.  I can't believe UK law would allow parents whose rights were terminated, and whose child was adopted, to have any kind of court challenge.  And if Ken and Lisa were being this noble (which I don't believe) they should have kept their faces (and Max) off of television.  If Max's bio family tracks him down, it's most likely due to this show.  But since Max's lazy and unambitious behavior is pure genetics, his bio parents will be too unmotivated to look for him.

[BluishGreen]

Lemondrop 16, I agree that this is Lisa's (and Max's) preemptive strike.  She is totally prepared to take any heat IMO.

But wouldn't this just prove the very thing that everyone always denies-- that Lisa has control over what is shown on this show and VPR and how it is shown?  I mean, your point is Lisa is just so cunning and has such clout that she set up a segment months ago that included a dispute with Max, along with some questionable remarks about genetics/adoption and allowed her husband to be shown as a petulant and immature parent,  for the sole purpose of  short- stopping some potential future gossip from Brandi--   all of which would have required the cooperation of production?  I can't buy into that. If it were true, wouldn't we all have to agree with Kyle that Lisa does play us like Bobby Fischer?  Nope--I just think Miss Lisa showed her ass in a big way and its pretty ugly.

Edited January 17, 2015 by BluishGreen

[RedheadZombie]

Ok, I know I should reserve judgment until I see the episode, but from the clip on Bravotv, when you're with a small group on a trip, and one is an alcoholic, and an event planner or whomever says "let's now move on to a wine tasting," shouldn't you step in and say "let's not." ?

 

I completely agree with you, but there's another mode of thinking that says the alcoholic needs to be accountable for their own actions, and responsible for their own sobriety.  A good friend in high school had a father who was a recovering alcoholic.  Instead of keeping liquor out of the house, the wife refused to curtail her own (presumable responsible) drinking, and kept a fully stocked liquor cabinet.  Even at that age, I felt that would be an unnecessary temptation, and even unsupportive as a spouse.

[erikdepressant]

Yolanda's Bravo blog went up yesterday.  She's had a Lyme relapse.

 

I wish I hadn't visited some medical websites about Lyme.  Now I'm paranoid I'll get it.  Apparently, even if you have no trace of the infection itself, you can suffer autoimmune & severe neurological problems for years afterward.

 

I kinda gave this the side-eye though: "A lot of great medicines and ancient therapies are blocked by the FDA, so that's why I choose to travel and recognize the value of diverse points of view in medicine."

[zoeysmom]

I'm just going to throw out a crazy idea based on pure conjecture and boredom with this episode. Now this conjecture is based on a couple of solid facts (like all the best conjecture). we know... Lisa is smart, reality TV savvy, this topic made her look bad. We also know Lisa and Brandi talked a lot when they were friendly. Brandi has threatened to out people's secrets if they weren't good to her (she told Kyle in Ojai to behave because she knew things about her and could destroy her if she wanted, the "veiled" threats on twitter to Lisa to out her treatment of Rocio and her fur closet). What if (this is the part that has no facts to back it up whatsoever) Lisa was stratergizing that before Brandi could out her on Max' lack-luster life she would put that story-line out herself? This would be a bold and impressive move. Of course the comments on his genes and comparing him to Pandora still looks bad, but I'll leave that for others to discuss.

I don't think it matters if Brandi has the goods on someone or not if she doesn't she will make something up or render an unflattering opinion.

[Aunt Kiki]

I kinda agree, Aunt Kiki, but Brandi and Kyle are just women his wife fights with and he has been very clear that he doesn't like them.

Max is his son.

Instead of focusing on his genetic differences, perhaps Ken and Lisa should see Max's similarities with his adopted father-- both Max and Ken act like spoiled, immature a-holes.

I totally get what you're saying - and Fozzy Bear has a great point as well - I got the impression from the interaction between Ken and Max that Lisa has always been the intermediary in that relationship - that Ken didn't have the same level of involvement in Max's upbringing due to being at work continuously and really doesn't "get" why Max has had so many problems.  Add to that Ken has, in general, acted like a crotchety old man in just about every scene I've seen him in this season.  I guess the height of their legal issues were ongoing during filming and that probably didn't help either.

 

And I agree - both men are acting like immature assholes.  And putting Lisa smack dab in the middle.

 

My father and brother had the same type of relationship.  I can't remember a time when there didn't seem to be tension between them.  My father was away a good part of the time and they had totally different interests.  It's so funny now because my brother acts exactly like my father acted to his kids. 

[BluishGreen]

I don't think it matters if Brandi has the goods on someone or not if she doesn't she will make something up or render an unflattering opinion.

Then, Lisa was very foolish indeed to present herself, her husband and her son in an unflattering way -- if she was trying to "get out" some item of gossip before Brandi does, and Brandi is going to make up anything she wants anyway, why give her an unattractive episode in  your family life to work with-- that would only help her elaborate (a/k/a lie)  and make up something even worse, just by using what Lisa herself put on the screen. And it would also give credibility to the exaggerated tale about Lisa's family that Brandi later tells.  Would our savvy Mr. VP, who is allegedly head and shoulders above the others when it comes to smarts, really be that stupid?

[Aunt Kiki]

Yolanda's Bravo blog went up yesterday.  She's had a Lyme relapse.

 

I wish I hadn't visited some medical websites about Lyme.  Now I'm paranoid I'll get it.  Apparently, even if you have no trace of the infection itself, you can suffer autoimmune & severe neurological problems for years afterward.

 

I kinda gave this the side-eye though: "A lot of great medicines and ancient therapies are blocked by the FDA, so that's why I choose to travel and recognize the value of diverse points of view in medicine."

I've had issues with Lyme's for almost 25 years - it's no picnic.  Not all medications work for everyone, some suffer residual effects of Lyme's for years (I can attest), some people have to change their lifestyle as a result of the after effects, etc.  I had no visible Lyme's symptoms but had the physical symptoms and I had a fairly bad case.  I don't know what the specifics of Yolanda's original symptoms were but I read from her blog that she had a severe case, and I'm not doubting the veracity of her words, but I would also give the side-eye to the quote above, too..   P.S.  I don't think for a minute that she 'lost her voice' last season - she just talked a lot of crap about certain people and got her head handed to her by the viewers - then she pulled out the "I was sick" excuse.

[LotusFlower]

I completely agree with you, but there's another mode of thinking that says the alcoholic needs to be accountable for their own actions, and responsible for their own sobriety.  A good friend in high school had a father who was a recovering alcoholic.  Instead of keeping liquor out of the house, the wife refused to curtail her own (presumable responsible) drinking, and kept a fully stocked liquor cabinet.  Even at that age, I felt that would be an unnecessary temptation, and even unsupportive as a spouse.

Right. We're a post-Prohibition society that drinks, so the responsibilty is on the alcoholic in recovery to know their temptations and triggers. Many can go out to dinner with friends who order cocktails or wine or beer and easily not drink, and some can't. We've seen Kim in many such scenes, usually with a glass of water or a cup of coffee. But isn't it different when an activity is centered around alcohol, like a wine tasting? Were Kyle and the others insensitive to agree to the activity, or should Kim have excused herself? (Or am I over-reacting?!)

[Avaleigh]

I think what particularly made me side eye Lisa a bit in this episode with regard to the Max thing was the way she basically compared him unfavorably with Pandora by mentioning things like Pandora being valedictorian. Why even bring Pandora up here at all? Why compare them in that way on TV? 

[RedheadZombie]

Right. We're a post-Prohibition society that drinks, so the responsibilty is on the alcoholic in recovery to know their temptations and triggers. Many can go out to dinner with friends who order cocktails or wine or beer and easily not drink, and some can't. We've seen Kim in many such scenes, usually with a glass of water or a cup of coffee. But isn't it different when an activity is centered around alcohol, like a wine tasting? Were Kyle and the others insensitive to agree to the activity, or should Kim have excused herself? (Or am I over-reacting?!)

 

I don't think you're over-reacting.  I personally would be uncomfortable attending it with an alcoholic, and  would probably offer to accompany Kim to an alternative event.

[Aunt Kiki]

But I think there's a difference between questioning the smartness of Lisa going to lunch with one of the HW's/frienemies, and having a discussion with your son. And even on the former - yes, some of these get-togethers are ridiculous. In real life, Lisa would never have lunch with the ladies after last year's shenanigans. But she has to because she decided to return to the show. And Ken not only knows this, but he apparently likes the cameras as well, and frequently participates, so he seems pretty disingenuous. On the latter, this clearly was a scene in his home where he was asked, and agreed, to participate. I don't think it was cool for him to walk out the way he did, both in his role as father, nor in his role on the show, frustrated or not. You stick it out - esp. as a father.

 

 

Nicely done!

 

Just my view, but I think he's just about done with the cameras and is no longer as interested as he once was.  On VPR, at the PUMP opening, the SUR manager came over to let Lisa and Ken know that a fired employee had come back looking for his old job back.  I was mildly shocked at how unpleasant Ken was to manager.  Very sharp and curt words.  Then he seemed to carry over the same attitiude on BH.    It seems like he's there against his will - he's on camera but always seems to have a puss on his face.- like he's only doing it because Lisa asked him to.  Personally, I don't think he adds anything to the show at this point and if I want to watch an adult act like a spoiled brat, I'd rather see a teenager act out than Ken.

[LotusFlower]

I don't think you're over-reacting.  I personally would be uncomfortable attending it with an alcoholic, and  would probably offer to accompany Kim to an alternative event.

Me, too. I saw just a snapshot of that scene, and I felt awkward and uncomfortable for Kim. When the winery rep. asked Kim if she wanted to smell the wine.... Oh Lord!

[zoeysmom]

Then, Lisa was very foolish indeed to present herself, her husband and her son in an unflattering way -- if she was trying to "get out" some item of gossip before Brandi does, and Brandi is going to make up anything she wants anyway, why give her an unattractive episode in  your family life to work with-- that would only help her elaborate (a/k/a lie)  and make up something even worse, just by using what Lisa herself put on the screen. And it would also give credibility to the exaggerated tale about Lisa's family that Brandi later tells.  Would our savvy Mr. VP, who is allegedly head and shoulders above the others when it comes to smarts, really be that stupid?

I could write a 10 paragraph post on where Mr. VP has lost any credibility when it comes to picking the right path .  It began with him sticking it to Taylor and only got worse when he supported his wife's decision to befriend Brandi and cut Kyle out of her life.  Ken's opinions have very few supporters any longer.   He is just an incredibly poor judge of character and a very dirty player.   

 

I am not surprised he is at odds with his son.  Ken has a grandson (a very successful grandson) Max's age.  Ken has no patience any longer and I feel as if the mighty Todd empire is now far more about a reality show than Ken's claim to fame successful clubs.  Ken has far less control over the reality show, as it lives at the whim of a network, than the restaurants he owns.  His son underperforming is just another thing he cannot control.

 

This isn't a spin story to prevent a Brandi attack-it is pretty much a given that Brandi is set on self-destruction.

[LotusFlower]

Just my view, but I think he's just about done with the cameras and is no longer as interested as he once was.  On VPR, at the PUMP opening, the SUR manager came over to let Lisa and Ken know that a fired employee had come back looking for his old job back.  I was mildly shocked at how unpleasant Ken was to manager.  Very sharp and curt words.  Then he seemed to carry over the same attitiude on BH.    It seems like he's there against his will - he's on camera but always seems to have a puss on his face.- like he's only doing it because Lisa asked him to.  Personally, I don't think he adds anything to the show at this point and if I want to watch an adult act like a spoiled brat, I'd rather see a teenager act out than Ken.

I feel like he's always been curmudgeonly and cranky. Maybe it's getting worse because he's older, or maybe this is how he really is and he's just more used to the cameras, or maybe he is getting tired of it. But whatever it is, it's not really entertaining or fun to watch.

[WireWrap]

Right. We're a post-Prohibition society that drinks, so the responsibilty is on the alcoholic in recovery to know their temptations and triggers. Many can go out to dinner with friends who order cocktails or wine or beer and easily not drink, and some can't. We've seen Kim in many such scenes, usually with a glass of water or a cup of coffee. But isn't it different when an activity is centered around alcohol, like a wine tasting? Were Kyle and the others insensitive to agree to the activity, or should Kim have excused herself? (Or am I over-reacting?!)

I smell Producer set up and Kim/Kyle fell for it while Brandi used it to her advantage.....JMO from what little we have seen so far.

[WireWrap]

Am having to chuckle.  I wish my husband of 20 years remembered our anniversary!  Good thing I don't much care either.  If my son recalled it, I'd be worried for his sanity.  Ken between the dog, the roses, the admirable worshiping of Lisa, and all the rest of us has pretty much neutered himself. 

I do think Ken has been overwhelmed with all that is happening with their business's this past year, even during filming.

 

That's another thing that bothered me about that scene - the way Ken up and left. There's another notch on his good parenting belt (not!). Yes, Max was annoying them about this and that, but at least Lisa was engaged and trying to have this talk, maybe even set some ground rules, or resolve something. Ken just gets up and walks away. Leaves it for Lisa to handle. It seems like he does that a lot, in all situations. Is it because he's older, or maybe not well? Because it seems Lisa is a workhorse and does everything.. Ken just appears to sit in his manor, drink tea, and play with his dogs.

Ken is acting like my own father did at that age and my brothers were grown men, married with children and successful in their lives. He became a real grump, always sour with little or no patience. It was my mother that held things together when Dad got this way. The older he got, the worse it got.

 

Yolanda's Bravo blog went up yesterday.  She's had a Lyme relapse.

 

I wish I hadn't visited some medical websites about Lyme.  Now I'm paranoid I'll get it.  Apparently, even if you have no trace of the infection itself, you can suffer autoimmune & severe neurological problems for years afterward.

 

I kinda gave this the side-eye though: "A lot of great medicines and ancient therapies are blocked by the FDA, so that's why I choose to travel and recognize the value of diverse points of view in medicine."

She complains how sick she is, then tweets today that she is off on a trip with David to support him in his job as a judge on a TV talent show in Asia somewhere. She is too sick to blog but she is well enough to travel across the planet! I do not doubt that she has Lyme's or some neurological disease/illness but I also really believe that she uses the illness as an excuse to get out of her own bad behavior or explaining her support of other HWs bad behavior......Brandi to be specific.

[runforcover]

Yolanda's Bravo blog went up yesterday.  She's had a Lyme relapse.

 

I wish I hadn't visited some medical websites about Lyme.  Now I'm paranoid I'll get it.  Apparently, even if you have no trace of the infection itself, you can suffer autoimmune & severe neurological problems for years afterward.

 

I kinda gave this the side-eye though: "A lot of great medicines and ancient therapies are blocked by the FDA, so that's why I choose to travel and recognize the value of diverse points of view in medicine."

 

Oooh, yeah, not a Yo fan and even less of a Lyme's fan. I've done my own neurotic "research" which has actually resulted in a household moratorium on the term "Lyme Disease".  A whole year.  Yeah.  

 

(OK, so by 'trace,' do you mean like a blood test or symptoms? )

 

So how many women do you think Foster has on the side?  

Edited January 17, 2015 by runforcover

[runforcover]

Just my view, but I think he's just about done with the cameras and is no longer as interested as he once was.  On VPR, at the PUMP opening, the SUR manager came over to let Lisa and Ken know that a fired employee had come back looking for his old job back.  I was mildly shocked at how unpleasant Ken was to manager.  Very sharp and curt words.  Then he seemed to carry over the same attitiude on BH.    It seems like he's there against his will - he's on camera but always seems to have a puss on his face.- like he's only doing it because Lisa asked him to.  Personally, I don't think he adds anything to the show at this point and if I want to watch an adult act like a spoiled brat, I'd rather see a teenager act out than Ken.

Oh Ken has checked out of life, not just the show, and it makes for great visuals.  He just consumes dogs, tea, Victorian umbrellas, pink puffs and fairy dust .  He's kind of awesome.  I'm sure he'd re-absorb Brandi if she transformed into a My Little Pony (pegasus!)

[erikdepressant]

I've had issues with Lyme's for almost 25 years - it's no picnic.  Not all medications work for everyone, some suffer residual effects of Lyme's for years (I can attest), some people have to change their lifestyle as a result of the after effects, etc.  I had no visible Lyme's symptoms but had the physical symptoms and I had a fairly bad case.

Aunt Kiki, I was sorry to read that, and I hope you find something that works for you.

 

(OK, so by 'trace,' do you mean like a blood test or symptoms? )

I couldn't find the site I was looking at last night, runforcover, but the CDC site shows that post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome has "no evidence that these symptoms are due to ongoing infection."

 

I wasn't doing thesis-level research, but I don't recall coming across "losing the voice for two years" or "picking out ugly fur rugs" as symptoms.

[ryebread]

Cranky old men crack me up.  Granted he's no Archie Bunker or Frank Barone.  But, for me, he adds some realness and authenticity to the show.  When he was telling Lisa what Max needed to do, when Max was sitting right there, it was a very real moment.  He's frustrated to the gills with Max and it shows.

 

As much as the rest of them entertain me, there's a whole lot of acting going on.  Not so much with Ken and I appreciate that.

[applecrisp]

If not Brandi then maybe Kim, or the 2 together, after what she said about Chad at the reunion last season. Could you imagine what Brandi would say about Max if given the chance to hurt/teach Lisa a lesson? YIKES!

 

I don't remember what was said about Chad or by who?  Could you clarify?  Thanks.

[Avaleigh]

Oh Ken has checked out of life, not just the show, and it makes for great visuals.  He just consumes dogs, tea, Victorian umbrellas, pink puffs and fairy dust .  He's kind of awesome.  I'm sure he'd re-absorb Brandi if she transformed into a My Little Pony (pegasus!)

RunforCover, I'm not even sure that I necessarily agree with all of your assessment of Ken here but your post made me laugh out loud so thanks for that. 

[ryebread]

Could you imagine what Brandi would say about Max if given the chance to hurt/teach Lisa a lesson? YIKES!

 

This is why the MAZEL of the WEEK goes to Joanna Krupa.  The ball has to start rolling somewhere.  Brandi has apologized to Lisa once already for creating and repeating the lies about Calabasas and bankruptcy.  I'm not sure why she even needs to make up stories when I'd bet she has enough real dirt on the Vanderpump-Todds and their shenanigans.  Lisa should have her eyes continually on the tabloids and her perfectly polished pinky, perpetually on the speed dial to her attorney.

 

Sooner or later, even a dimwit like Brandi will either think before she opens her yap, or get sick of spending money on an attorney to answer for her bullshit.

 

She just needs to be stopped.  And I'm happy to see Joanna put her money where her own big mouth is.

[bosawks]

Oh Ken has checked out of life, not just the show, and it makes for great visuals. He just consumes dogs, tea, Victorian umbrellas, pink puffs and fairy dust . He's kind of awesome. I'm sure he'd re-absorb Brandi if she transformed into a My Little Pony (pegasus!)

The thought of Ken as a "Brony" has made my day, heck, it's made my month.

Edited January 17, 2015 by bosawks

[jinjer]

 

She complains how sick she is, then tweets today that she is off on a trip with David to support him in his job as a judge on a TV talent show in Asia somewhere.

Yo was in S. Korea getting treatment.  Anwar flew to be with her during his break.  Then she flew from there to Singapore to be with David.  So not exactly across the world at one time.  But I think Yo's main complaint if foggy brain at this point.  

 

I think Lisa VP made a major miscalculation with the Max storyline.  Just the debate on here is enough to highlight that it isn't all rose and roses.

 

They always say not to label your children or they will live up to your labels.  I wonder if Max sitting down and "owning" up to his screw ups is his mocking way of just regurgitating the language he has heard from his parents so many times before.

 

Makes me wonder if Max signed on to Bravo on his own as a way to make money.  Easy peasy.  No more extra shifts at Sur and stick it to old Dad at the same time.

[runforcover]

RunforCover, I'm not even sure that I necessarily agree with all of your assessment of Ken here but your post made me laugh out loud so thanks for that. 

Heh, nice call, I don't even agree with it.  Prob more of a wish based on one shot of Ken that looked really accidental - a handful of dogs were leaping over him while he has weirdly slumped on what I can assume is pink-complementary coloured couch, etc.  and the sun splash made it extra special.

[FozzyBear]

Right. We're a post-Prohibition society that drinks, so the responsibilty is on the alcoholic in recovery to know their temptations and triggers. Many can go out to dinner with friends who order cocktails or wine or beer and easily not drink, and some can't. We've seen Kim in many such scenes, usually with a glass of water or a cup of coffee. But isn't it different when an activity is centered around alcohol, like a wine tasting? Were Kyle and the others insensitive to agree to the activity, or should Kim have excused herself? (Or am I over-reacting?!)

No, I agree there is a difference between inviting an alchohic to an event where some people might have a drink and inviting them to an event where everyone will be drinking and that's the main activity. I would invite a sober friend to a dinner where some alcohol might be served, but I might hesitate to invite them to meet up for an after-work happy hour. Wine tasting, especially with someone who's sobriety isn't solid or long term, feels icky.

[zoeysmom]

My husband has been in the wine business for thirty years and has held hundreds of wine tastings. Frequently there is someone in attendance that does not drink due to pregnancy, on-call for work, is Muslim or Mormon or another religion that forbids drinking, recovering alcoholic, allergic to tannins in red white, can't have white wine because of the acid, can't mix a current medication with wine or is on a diet.  The woman asking Kim to smell is wrong.  If Kim felt uncomfortable she could recuse herself, step back a little but under no circumstances should she ask or expect anyone, even her sister, to stop their activities and entertain her.  Rarely have the non-drinking caused a fuss and it is not uncommon here in Napa Valley for a wine tasting to be part of  group activity and the primary activity is not wine tasting.  Kim's alcoholism is all hers to own.  She doesn't have to share it with anyone not her kids, her exes or her sisters.  If she or nitwit Brandi want to define Kim by her alcoholism then it is on Kim and Brandi not the rest of Kim's world. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by zoeysmom

[jaync]

Acknowledging and celebrating an adoption is not at all what I was talking about, and I think I was pretty clear. 

The part of your post I quoted was in the context of you saying your family doesn't distinguish those that were adopted, and how some members don't even know their adoptive status. And my point to that was that other families don't share that same dynamic/experience, and they aren't in the wrong for doing so; it is what it is for them.

 

I am certain that if Max came home between Idaho and Music school there was bed for him in the house.

I think the music school in Hollywood, so we don't know that Max didn't live at home while attending. Also, Lisa mentioned missing seeing Max's backpack laying about the house, so apparently he was living at home during some of his schooling.

 

She's had a Lyme relapse.

When doesn't she?

 

[zoeysmom]

The part of your post I quoted was in the context of you saying your family doesn't distinguish those that were adopted, and how some members don't even know their adoptive status. And my point to that was that other families don't share that same dynamic/experience, and they aren't in the wrong for doing so; it is what it is for them.

 

I think the music school in Hollywood, so we don't know that Max didn't live at home while attending. Also, Lisa mentioned missing seeing Max's backpack laying about the house, so apparently he was living at home during some of his schooling.

 

When doesn't she?

I would think Lisa saying she pays Max's rent while he is attending music school and continues to do so is  sufficient evidence to me, Max did not live at home while attending music school.  She also speaks of her children returning home from school for holidays and enjoying the Vanderfabulous life.  I think whoever wants to believe that Max has been living under Lisa and Ken's roof since he was 16 in spite of significant evidence to the contrary is more than welcome to do so.

[Almost 3000]

Cranky old men crack me up.  Granted he's no Archie Bunker or Frank Barone.  But, for me, he adds some realness and authenticity to the show.  When he was telling Lisa what Max needed to do, when Max was sitting right there, it was a very real moment.  He's frustrated to the gills with Max and it shows.

 

As much as the rest of them entertain me, there's a whole lot of acting going on.  Not so much with Ken and I appreciate that.

I was hoping he'd be better after his hip surgery but sadly he's crankier. I'm hoping its housewife burn out and not something more serious.

[SoCal4Us]

But wouldn't this just prove the very thing that everyone always denies-- that Lisa has control over what is shown on this show and VPR and how it is shown?  I mean, your point is Lisa is just so cunning and has such clout that she set up a segment months ago that included a dispute with Max, along with some questionable remarks about genetics/adoption and allowed her husband to be shown as a petulant and immature parent,  for the sole purpose of  short- stopping some potential future gossip from Brandi--   all of which would have required the cooperation of production?  I can't buy into that. If it were true, wouldn't we all have to agree with Kyle that Lisa does play us like Bobby Fischer?  Nope--I just think Miss Lisa showed her ass in a big way and its pretty ugly.

 

What I mean is that Lisa  has an endgame in mind that she's hoping will benefit Max in the long run.  I admit "preemptive strike" was probably a tad dramatic lol...but I don't think that she has final say on what is shown on TV, just that she's aware that any of her behavior might be shown.  Hope that makes sense.

 

Again, IMO Lisa simply reiterated a question asked by a producer WRT adoption/genetics.  I don't think she's a witch or disgusting or ugly or should be vilified because of this.  I do think that she and Max discussed the potential pitfalls of bringing his story to television and he made the decision to run with it...he's also the one who brought up the difference between him and his family during the phone call.

[WireWrap]

I don't remember what was said about Chad or by who?  Could you clarify?  Thanks.

Lisa used Chad "breaking his leg" to show that she had been there for Kim after Kim cried that Lisa never calls/contacts her. Everyone knew that what she was referring to was Chads bizarre behavior that got him admitted to the Psych facility and Kim/Kyle were furious. None of the tabloid/news reports mentioned which of Kim's children had the mental breakdown even though Chad was the only 1 still living at home with Kim at the time.

[jaync]

I think whoever wants to believe that Max has been living under Lisa and Ken's roof since he was 16 in spite of significant evidence to the contrary is more than welcome to do so.

Well, I'm not one that believes that, and never said so. I only questioned your earlier claim that Max hasn't lived with his parents at all in the last eight years.

 

[zoeysmom]

Well, I'm not one that believes that, and never said so. I only questioned your earlier claim that Max hasn't lived with his parents at all in the last eight years.

I never said "at all".  I just believe Max has been in school and has lived outside his parents' home for the past eight years.  It was never meant to mean anything more than he has been in boarding school or music college.  His music school does not have on campus housing so I presume any apartment leased would be year round.  Lisa even expressed concern about the environment he would be in.  I believe Max has probably spent the night in his folks home, vacationed with them overseas and spent time with them in their restaurants, attended family events and as I said previously enjoyed all that is Vanderfabulous, in the past eight years.  According to Lisa he lived in a place without electricity for three months and didn't return home, so I feel pretty safe in saying Max is not living in the Todd/Vanderpump residence.   My original comment was about Max returning home and getting his bearings as to budget and responsibility.  Since then it has turned into some ridiculous accounting of exactly how and when Max lived with Ken and Lisa.  The question posed was really about would it benefit this 23 year old to return home save some money and then return to living on his own.

[zoeysmom]

What I mean is that Lisa  has an endgame in mind that she's hoping will benefit Max in the long run.  I admit "preemptive strike" was probably a tad dramatic lol...but I don't think that she has final say on what is shown on TV, just that she's aware that any of her behavior might be shown.  Hope that makes sense.

 

Again, IMO Lisa simply reiterated a question asked by a producer WRT adoption/genetics.  I don't think she's a witch or disgusting or ugly or should be vilified because of this.  I do think that she and Max discussed the potential pitfalls of bringing his story to television and he made the decision to run with it...he's also the one who brought up the difference between him and his family during the phone call.

See I think Lisa will weather the storm about any comments about Max's adoption because in her eyes she has said nothing wrong.  I don't think she will say production asked a question about his genes because I think it is the world in which Lisa lives and she obviously feels nature may win out over nurture.  Just as you will always see Ken support Lisa whatever the situation.  Lisa rarely, if ever admits she is wrong or holds a grudge.  Interesting in this week blog she saw fit to bring up the week's episode did not include any comments of her holding a grudge or Lisa not inviting someone somewhere.  So even when she is outside the fray so still wants to rub it in-just a little.

[becauseIsaidso]

Just saw the preview for the next episode and I have to wonder if the bitchard sisters had noticed their increasing irrelevance and decided to pump up their storyline by  resurrecting the un-sober Kim bit - not that I think she was ever really seriously working for sobriety to begin with - there have been far too many references to 'how far Kim has come' (in order to remind us all over and over of her 'issues') for that to be even remotely believable.  Neither of them is very interesting, so the only thing they have going for them, now that they have wrung out every fake tear possible over kids leaving home for whatever reason, is to find some serious issue to put them both back in the limelight. If that does prove to be the case, it will (for me at the very least) throw the original reveal of Kim's substance abuse issues season's ago under the light of being a deliberate plan which imnsho is just as bad as the crap the jooodeechays shoved down everyone's throats since the inception of NJ. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I firmly believe that whole limo scene/fight/reveal was very carefully and deliberately planned. Fool me once.....buh-bye BH.

[SoCal4Us]

See I think Lisa will weather the storm about any comments about Max's adoption because in her eyes she has said nothing wrong.  I don't think she will say production asked a question about his genes because I think it is the world in which Lisa lives and she obviously feels nature may win out over nurture.  Just as you will always see Ken support Lisa whatever the situation.  Lisa rarely, if ever admits she is wrong or holds a grudge.  Interesting in this week blog she saw fit to bring up the week's episode did not include any comments of her holding a grudge or Lisa not inviting someone somewhere.  So even when she is outside the fray so still wants to rub it in-just a little.

 

I agree that Lisa won't say anything about production...but I don't think she has said anything wrong and disagree that anything is obvious regarding Lisa's feelings on nature/nurture.

[WireWrap]

Yo was in S. Korea getting treatment.  Anwar flew to be with her during his break.  Then she flew from there to Singapore to be with David.  So not exactly across the world at one time.  But I think Yo's main complaint if foggy brain at this point.  

 

I think Lisa VP made a major miscalculation with the Max storyline.  Just the debate on here is enough to highlight that it isn't all rose and roses.

 

They always say not to label your children or they will live up to your labels.  I wonder if Max sitting down and "owning" up to his screw ups is his mocking way of just regurgitating the language he has heard from his parents so many times before.

 

Makes me wonder if Max signed on to Bravo on his own as a way to make money.  Easy peasy.  No more extra shifts at Sur and stick it to old Dad at the same time.

Hmmm, didn't she just have a major reaction to some treatment she received in S. Korea and was hospitalized here to undo the damage? 

 

She said that she only had 1 good day in all of 2014, yet she managed to plan, buy, decorate and move Bell across country and decorate the new apartment, with a "foggy brain". A task that would not be easy for someone that is thinking clearly IMO! LOL

 

I never said "at all".  I just believe Max has been in school and has lived outside his parents' home for the past eight years.  It was never meant to mean anything more than he has been in boarding school or music college.  His music school does not have on campus housing so I presume any apartment leased would be year round.  Lisa even expressed concern about the environment he would be in.  I believe Max has probably spent the night in his folks home, vacationed with them overseas and spent time with them in their restaurants, attended family events and as I said previously enjoyed all that is Vanderfabulous, in the past eight years.  According to Lisa he lived in a place without electricity for three months and didn't return home, so I feel pretty safe in saying Max is not living in the Todd/Vanderpump residence.   My original comment was about Max returning home and getting his bearings as to budget and responsibility.  Since then it has turned into some ridiculous accounting of exactly how and when Max lived with Ken and Lisa.  The question posed was really about would it benefit this 23 year old to return home save some money and then return to living on his own.

To be honest, we do not know if Lisa/Ken asked Max to move back home or not, or if he has lived at home at all since coming back from Idaho. There is no indication that they would not welcome home either of their kids if warranted. Max is in control of his own life, not Lisa/Ken and they can not make him do/not do anything at this point in his life, it is all up to him.

Edited January 17, 2015 by WireWrap

[GreatKazu]

But you're just speculating. Maybe they had a longer conversation with her, maybe they didn't. I'm commenting on what we saw

I am the first one to post that I don't like speculation. If two housewives are having a battle, I don't like to speculate on what they may have said away from the cameras or what might have transpired outside of the show unless there is proof via an interview, an article where one of them gives their side of the events, something to that effect. I agree with you on that part. However, this is a matter that many of us have done personally - sent a kid off to college or had a parent who sent us off to college. It is not far-fetched nor is it speculation to figure out pretty much what conversation Kyle, Mauricio, and Alexia may have had at home. This is college, not some personal beef between two housewives.  It is not as if they just talked about college that one day ON CAMERA. Of course not. They had to have had plenty of conversations about what colleges Alexia wanted to attend, what her major is, what her career goals are, what are her plans if she chooses to leave the state for college versus if she attended school nearby. I am also sure Mauricio and Kyle gave their opinions, and possibly Farrah was part of those conversations, giving her opinions on what Alexia can expect.  I can easily see this family sitting there and going over details, the what ifs, offering words of encouragement and also letting Alexia know that should she change her mind about the distance or anything else, it is not a problem. I don't think they ever gave the impression through that short moment on camera or privately that Alexia should give up the moment she feels any kind of qualms. I don't see Kyle being that kind of parent. I see her telling her girls to stick it out, like many of us have told our kids. I know I gave a similar comment to my kids when I told them to call me if they needed to vent, but to be strong and to try and learn to figure things out on their own. I also told them if they felt the need to change their mind about the choice of their college, they should not worry about my reaction because it was their choice and they would have to live with it.

 

 Kyle's oldest, Farrah, graduated from college with her mind set on entering the field of forensic psychology. I am guessing her grandmother (Mauricio's mother) was some sort of influence on her since she herself is a psychologist. Farrah probably thought following in her grandmother's footsteps was the ideal career. The last I read, Farrah is now working in her father's business. I am not sure if that is a new career for her, but if it is, I am sure Kyle and Maurcio are not at all bothered that she changed her mind about her career. Nor do I think either parent had a hand in Farrah changing her career plans.

[harrie]

[...]

 

She (Yolanda) complains how sick she is, then tweets today that she is off on a trip with David to support him in his job as a judge on a TV talent show in Asia somewhere. She is too sick to blog but she is well enough to travel across the planet! I do not doubt that she has Lyme's or some neurological disease/illness but I also really believe that she uses the illness as an excuse to get out of her own bad behavior or explaining her support of other HWs bad behavior......Brandi to be specific.

 

If Yolanda and David always fly private, it's a lot less stressful and tiring than schlepping through an airport, dealing with TSA, and being packed in like cattle. Yo may be taking advantage of her illness, but her mode of travel looked pretty comfortable/restful last time around. 

[WireWrap]

Just saw the preview for the next episode and I have to wonder if the bitchard sisters had noticed their increasing irrelevance and decided to pump up their storyline by  resurrecting the un-sober Kim bit - not that I think she was ever really seriously working for sobriety to begin with - there have been far too many references to 'how far Kim has come' (in order to remind us all over and over of her 'issues') for that to be even remotely believable.  Neither of them is very interesting, so the only thing they have going for them, now that they have wrung out every fake tear possible over kids leaving home for whatever reason, is to find some serious issue to put them both back in the limelight. If that does prove to be the case, it will (for me at the very least) throw the original reveal of Kim's substance abuse issues season's ago under the light of being a deliberate plan which imnsho is just as bad as the crap the jooodeechays shoved down everyone's throats since the inception of NJ. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I firmly believe that whole limo scene/fight/reveal was very carefully and deliberately planned. Fool me once.....buh-bye BH.

At this point anything is possible. Bravo got a lot of complaints about Kim's lack of storyline, that she was/is boring last season and even though she has been featured more this season than ever before, she is still boring IMO.

 

Kyle has publicly said that she and Kim are a package deal, if Bravo wants to keep Kyle, they must keep Kim as a full HW no matter what.

[WireWrap]

If Yolanda and David always fly private, it's a lot less stressful and tiring than schlepping through an airport, dealing with TSA, and being packed in like cattle. Yo may be taking advantage of her illness, but her mode of travel looked pretty comfortable/restful last time around. 

They do not always fly private though. Yolanda has said they fly both private and public. Who know what she flew this time.

 

And why take Anwar with her if she is in a treatment facility or hospital in S. Korea the entire time. Or, even if she stays in a luxury hotel but is bed bound, why bring a young teen to just sit around? There are just too many things that do not make sense to me but that is just me. I think Yolanda is much healthier, body and brain, than she admits because it brings her not only sympathy and a way to deflect what she does/doesn't say/do on the show but also she gets a lot of recognition as a "fighter" for Lyme's Disease awareness. Yolanda is getting the legit recognition that she always wanted but it is through Lyme's Disease and not a "Fitness Lifestyle" show.

[zoeysmom]

At this point anything is possible. Bravo got a lot of complaints about Kim's lack of storyline, that she was/is boring last season and even though she has been featured more this season than ever before, she is still boring IMO.

 

Kyle has publicly said that she and Kim are a package deal, if Bravo wants to keep Kyle, they must keep Kim as a full HW no matter what.

I have never been able to find a true quote of Kyle saying they are a package deal but I agree it has been repeatedly reported.  I don't think they are -I think Kim has her own group of fans from when she was a child star and Kyle's fans are from her presence on the show.  I don't think Kyle would give up her spot on the show in the event Kim was not asked back or refused to return.  I think Kim is clinging to life this year.  By attaching herself to Brandi she will get some good camera time.  Brandi will use Kim to get back at Kyle and Lisa V. 

 

This clip shows sparks of Kim trying to be funny and a part of the wine tasting and then it is time to let the hostess speak.  Nobody goes to a wine tasting to hear about another's drinking problem or recovery process.  It appears they accommodated Kim with a special drink so she wouldn't feel left out.  Brandi is sitting there with such a sour puss look on her face.  If she thinks wine tasting is such a bad idea then perhaps she should offer to give up her camera time and go hang out with Kim.  She also seems to be put out that Kyle got off her stool and approached Kim.  Who knows with Brandi.

[LotusFlower]

I am the first one to post that I don't like speculation. If two housewives are having a battle, I don't like to speculate on what they may have said away from the cameras or what might have transpired outside of the show unless there is proof via an interview, an article where one of them gives their side of the events, something to that effect. I agree with you on that part. However, this is a matter that many of us have done personally - sent a kid off to college or had a parent who sent us off to college. It is not far-fetched nor is it speculation to figure out pretty much what conversation Kyle, Mauricio, and Alexia may have had at home. This is college, not some personal beef between two housewives.  It is not as if they just talked about college that one day ON CAMERA. Of course not. They had to have had plenty of conversations about what colleges Alexia wanted to attend, what her major is, what her career goals are, what are her plans if she chooses to leave the state for college versus if she attended school nearby. I am also sure Mauricio and Kyle gave their opinions, and possibly Farrah was part of those conversations, giving her opinions on what Alexia can expect.  I can easily see this family sitting there and going over details, the what ifs, offering words of encouragement and also letting Alexia know that should she change her mind about the distance or anything else, it is not a problem. I don't think they ever gave the impression through that short moment on camera or privately that Alexia should give up the moment she feels any kind of qualms. I don't see Kyle being that kind of parent. I see her telling her girls to stick it out, like many of us have told our kids. I know I gave a similar comment to my kids when I told them to call me if they needed to vent, but to be strong and to try and learn to figure things out on their own. I also told them if they felt the need to change their mind about the choice of their college, they should not worry about my reaction because it was their choice and they would have to live with it.

Your entire post is your speculation about conversations in the Umansky household. Who knows - you could be right, or you could be right on how one conversation went down, but not on another. That's what I think happened (the latter). Based on what we saw, as well as knowing Kyle, I'm betting Kyle was very encouraging and supportive in the college process. But I also tend to think that she was probably somewhat passive-aggressive with the "if it doesn't work out" talk. You wrote that you can see Kyle telling her daughters to "stick it out." I don't see how you can imagine this since we saw her say the exact opposite. Just like your very positive take on her is based on the HW and the family you see, so is mine - I see a very loving and attentive mother, but also someone who is having a hard time letting go, mentioned returning home more than once (and that's just what was shown), and is emotionally needy. She's giving her kid a message - maybe a deliberate one, certainly a subliminal one, where she's thinking of what she wants first, at least on a subconscious level. I don't think it's a big deal, esp. since Alexia is probably used to it, but it is a message nonetheless.