Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"

[bubbls]

8 hours ago, BooksRule said:

 

The scourge of my front yard is Florida Betony.  One in the back yard is Dog Fennel.  It looks like very tall dillweed, but smells pungent (hence the 'dog' name--like in 'wet dog').  It's also hard to get the roots.

I grew up riding dog fennel. It was my horse. I'd bend the fringe top down for the head and tie a string to it for reins. I rode like the wind! 

 

My gardening related peeve would be weed cloth. First, it doesn't work. Most importantly, it's almost impossible to dig through. Between the hard clay rocky soil, the pebbles used for mulch, and then the weed cloth I collapse after planting a mere half a dozen four-inch pots. It's like mining by hand!

[backformore]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:09 PM, forumfish said:

Re: borrowing a husband or boyfriend for heavy lifting -- yes, this is a thing:

http://www.rent-a-spouse.com/

Apparently there are quite a few such companies, and an article I saw for a local one really irritated me. You can rent a "husband" for household repairs or a "wife" for cleaning. Grrr. I happen to be a woman who enjoys "men's work" like painting, installing flooring, and putting together IKEA furniture waaaaaay more than doing "women's work" like washing dishes and doing laundry. I have never considered myself a feminist, just independent, but these gender stereotypes have got to go.

You know, "feminist" doesn't have to have negative connotations.  It just means you believe that men and women deserve equal opportunities.  

jobs, education, housing, credit, etc.  - should all be available regardless of gender.  Who can disagree with that?  That really is all that feminism means.

[backformore]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:50 AM, Quof said:

StatisticalOutlier, you and I need to hang in real life.  I don't even start with "please."  And it's never a request.  

"You need to turn your phone off."  "Your child needs to be quiet."  "You need to stop pissing me off."

I did once tell a woman in front of me at the movie theater that her phone screen was distracting me.  My husband was embarrassed, but tough shit.

At the gym I go to, there are clear signs up that phones are not to be used in the locker room.   another sign was added that it is now a state law, and that violators can be arrested and fined.  This has been a rule at this gym for as long as I've been going there, since an incident in which an adult was taking photos of boys getting in and out of swim trunks. 

Anyway -  Newer gym members seem to be oblivious.  They sign a contract (maybe they don't read it first?) that includes this rule, they pass the signs saying "NO CELL PHONE USE", but they don't see them, I guess?  So, a friend and I saw a woman using her cell phone and reminded her of the rule.  She was incredulous.  "WHAT?  I'm texting!  I can't text! Who says?  I'm not doing anything, mind your business."    look, you're holding a phone, but your phone is also a camera.  people are getting undressed.  Put the phone DOWN until you're out of the locker room, how hard is that?

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, backformore said:

You know, "feminist" doesn't have to have negative connotations.  It just means you believe that men and women deserve equal opportunities.  

jobs, education, housing, credit, etc.  - should all be available regardless of gender.  Who can disagree with that?  That really is all that feminism means.

No one can really disagree with that, but the meaning has changed over the years.  You can't be a stay-at-home mom.  Not that you shouldn't be able to be  a stay-at-home dad, either, but that's not where the focus is at.  And, it's also that women should get paid the same as men regardless of how much time they miss from work, be it from maternity leave or leaving early every day to pick up the kids.  Again, I'm not saying that men don't do these things also (OK, they probably don't take maternity leave, but maybe they're out for a few weeks with a back injury or something), but you don't usually hear about them getting upset about not getting paid for hours they are not working, or being passed up for promotions in favor of people who didn't just miss a month or two of work. 

[Qoass]

Quote

Dishes of candy/nuts are NOT hors d'oeuvres!

In my house, that's breakfast.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

No one can really disagree with that, but the meaning has changed over the years. You can't be a stay-at-home mom.

Personally, I don't think the meaning itself has changed; I do think that people apply personal interpretations to it. My grandma has said she's not a feminist. Meanwhile, after taking off on her abusive alcoholic husband in the '60s, getting a divorce, and working for a living to pay the bills for herself and kids, I'd call her one.

Part of feminism, in my interpretation, is that you most certainly can be a stay-at-home mom; the point is a woman doing what she decides to do regardless of gender roles, even if her chosen "position" happens to be something that other women fought to "escape"--emphasis on the word chosen and not escape. They wanted to escape the pigeonholing (to put it kindly), not necessarily the role itself.

A salary is what is paid for the job that is to be done, not the person that is doing it. Of course credentials, experience, and education can factor in to what that salary is, but those things can be quantified without even knowing what a person's gender is. With the exception of wet nurse or...I don't know--penis model?--gender on its own affects nothing in job qualification.

Edited June 12, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[backformore]

50 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Part of feminism, in my interpretation, is that you most certainly can be a stay-at-home mom; the point is a woman doing what she decides to do regardless of gender roles, even if her chosen "position" happens to be something that other women fought to "escape"--emphasis on the word chosen and not escape. They wanted to escape the pigeonholing (to put it kindly), not necessarily the role itself.

A salary is what is paid for the job that is to be done, not the person that is doing it. Of course credentials, experience, and education can factor in to what that salary is, but those things can be quantified without even knowing what a person's gender is. With the exception of wet nurse or...I don't know--penis model?--gender on its own affects nothing in job qualification.

Right!  When I was growing up, "Housewife" was the ONLY respectable choice for women.  Women became secretaries to bide their time until they found a husband.  Teachers were "old maids", and nurses were just looking for a doctor to marry. 

Being a stay-at-home parent IS a feminist choice, it means valuing the maternal side of women, but also understanding that men can have that role.  Feminism can have, for some people, negative connotations because they perceive "feminists"  as man-hating.   But the core value of feminism is basic human rights.

As for maternity leave - it's not even called that, it's Family-Medical Leave, meaning that people, male or female,  can take time off to have a baby, adopt a child, tend to their health or that of a family member, or even care for an aging parent.

Edited June 12, 2017 by backformore

[TattleTeeny]

Of course, the whole "working woman" thing brings about its own set of issues, sometimes more so if the chicks are the breadwinners! I don't even have kids but let me tell you there are days when I think, "Fuck this shit--all that progress so that now I can work 50 hours a week, pay the bills, and STILL do the majority of the housework?" Bah!

Edited June 12, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[ParadoxLost]

7 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Of course, the whole "working woman" thing brings about its own set of issues, sometimes more so if the chicks are the breadwinners! I don't even have kids but let me tell you there are days when I think, "Fuck this shit--all that progress so that now I can work 50 hours a week, pay the bills, and STILL do the majority of the housework?" Bah!

 

I was thinking today as I was leaving work that the whole "single working woman" thing kind of sucked because I have to do everything.  That was followed up by needing a culture that schedules country wide vacations so that work isn't piled up before and after you go on vacation (because its a joy to work 80 hours before and after vacation so you can take half a 40 hour work week off).  Then my stream of consciousness meandered to needing a culture that accepts a mid-life sabbatical because working toward the goal of retirement is annoying.  Now I'm watching "Year Million" and its making me tired.  Well, I was already tired but now I'm exhausted. 

Meanwhile, I have gotten a robo call from the same number 17 times since Friday which is only coming at times people are likely to be home.  I have only broken down once to scream obscenities at the automated message.  But damn it, I'm sick of it beeping on call waiting, ringing and flashing a message on the TV.  @#%@  I kid you not, there goes number eighteen.  I refuse to answer the survey.  Its the principle of the thing at this point.

Edited June 12, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[StatisticalOutlier]

Does anybody else remember when want-ads in the newspaper were divided up into "Help Wanted - Male" and "Help Wanted - Female"?  I think about that and can't believe it was in my lifetime.

[theredhead77]

13 hours ago, Katy M said:

No one can really disagree with that, but the meaning has changed over the years.  You can't be a stay-at-home mom.  Not that you shouldn't be able to be  a stay-at-home dad, either, but that's not where the focus is at.  And, it's also that women should get paid the same as men regardless of how much time they miss from work, be it from maternity leave or leaving early every day to pick up the kids.  Again, I'm not saying that men don't do these things also (OK, they probably don't take maternity leave, but maybe they're out for a few weeks with a back injury or something), but you don't usually hear about them getting upset about not getting paid for hours they are not working, or being passed up for promotions in favor of people who didn't just miss a month or two of work. 

I tend to think of these things as professional consequences to your choices. If person A and person B start a position at the same time with the same experience and education they should start at the same wage. After a year person A starts leaving early and coming in late due to their personal life while person B is a dependable rock. Person B receives the maximum yearly raise and additional training / opportunity. Person A receives a token raise and no additional growth. That is a professional consequence to person A's choices. Their gender has nothing to do with it and person A has no right to complain about their lack of raise / growth opportunity.

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I was thinking today as I was leaving work that the whole "single working woman" thing kind of sucked because I have to do everything.  T

Yes! I realize some people who are married also have to do everything but as a single person, I just don't want to hear about it. I literally have to do everything myself.

Edited June 13, 2017 by theredhead77
Fix words

[BooksRule]

I hate it when I need to get some things at the grocery store and they are out of one or two things that I need.  I can understand if it was something on sale and they ran out or if it was a limited edition of something, but I'm talking about basic stuff.  I went to Wal Mart (I didn't want to but I wanted some frozen brown rice and I haven't found it elsewhere) and thought I would pick up some coffee since I'm down to the last third of the container.  They only had huge containers of the kind I buy or the 'other' flavors (I just wanted Folger's classic roast).  I also needed mayo and they only had either the small jars (which cost way more ounce for ounce) or the industrial size.  No 'regular' size.  I would have settled for my second favorite brand, but it was the same situation with it.  So, I went by another store near my house to get mayo (the coffee could wait a few days), and they were out of my favorite as well.  I got Hellman's instead (which is good--it's just more expensive).  At least I got the brown rice.  (Six bags)

[AgentRXS]

So yesterday, I went to run errands and my car wouldn't start. Got it towed to a mechanic and and it turn out to be the starter. The guy gives me a quote, I agree to it (its sounds reasonable) and then he starts work. Then here comes "I didn't realize your car was a 6 cylinder and not 4 cylinder, that ups the price to 200 dollars more than the previous estimate. " This doesn't sound right, but I know almost nothing about cars, so  I call my dad. He gets on the phone with the guy and the price an even lower amount then I was originally quoted.

I hate being priced-gouged just because I'm female. I hate relying on a male figure to get a fair price. I hate that single women have to be complete experts on everything in order to not being taken advantage of. This is why deconstructing gender roles is so important for the upcoming generations. My dad never taught me and my sister any of the handy work because it was considered "men's work". I learned enough about my car to know all the parts and their functions, but I am completely oblivious on how to tackle any  DIY repairs (outside of changing a flat)  and what a fair labor cost should be.

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Does anybody else remember when want-ads in the newspaper were divided up into "Help Wanted - Male" and "Help Wanted - Female"?  I think about that and can't believe it was in my lifetime.

In the early years of my post-college work "life" (I graduated college in 1997, so relatively not forever ago), I saw ads wanting a "girl Friday". I know the phrase as a colloquialism, and it's a variation on (derived from?) the title of a movie that my mother's generation would likely be the last to know.

In those same 20 years, I've seen support staff go from being called "secretary" (shudder) to "administrative (or some variation) assistant" to a current buzzword--"coordinator", etc. The support staff job has absolutely changed over the years. Dictation is largely a thing of the past outside of law (is it even still a thing?). There aren't typing pools anymore. Computers changed everything even since I graduated.

My work, no matter what job or company, has always been project driven rather than rote tasks. I've done everything from filing to writing to graphic design, and will still do some of everything. I don't think I'm too good to do any task, which, ironically, is probably why I keep being kept "in my place", so to speak.

"Penis model" made me laugh.

[TattleTeeny]

I am not even sure there is such a thing and I ain't about to Google it!

[ParadoxLost]

10 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I hate being priced-gouged just because I'm female. I hate relying on a male figure to get a fair price. I hate that single women have to be complete experts on everything in order to not being taken advantage of. This is why deconstructing gender roles is so important for the upcoming generations. My dad never taught me and my sister any of the handy work because it was considered "men's work". I learned enough about my car to know all the parts and their functions, but I am completely oblivious on how to tackle any  DIY repairs (outside of changing a flat)  and what a fair labor cost should be.

This is definitely a generational thing.  My grandmother didn't think any woman could do "men's work".  My mom has been convinced that she can't do "men's work" but is getting better about it.  I know I can.  But a lot of time I choose not to just because every DIY project comes with such a learning curve.  Since it wasn't something that was taught when I was a kid I always end up with having to learn how to do it, then go buy all the tools (usually for something that is a one time thing) and then go do it. Most of the time I just hire someone because of the startup cost and time requirement.

[theredhead77]

31 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

So yesterday, I went to run errands and my car wouldn't start. Got it towed to a mechanic and and it turn out to be the starter. The guy gives me a quote, I agree to it (its sounds reasonable) and then he starts work. Then here comes "I didn't realize your car was a 6 cylinder and not 4 cylinder, that ups the price to 200 dollars more than the previous estimate. " This doesn't sound right, but I know almost nothing about cars, so  I call my dad. He gets on the phone with the guy and the price an even lower amount then I was originally quoted.

I hate being priced-gouged just because I'm female. I hate relying on a male figure to get a fair price. I hate that single women have to be complete experts on everything in order to not being taken advantage of. This is why deconstructing gender roles is so important for the upcoming generations. My dad never taught me and my sister any of the handy work because it was considered "men's work". I learned enough about my car to know all the parts and their functions, but I am completely oblivious on how to tackle any  DIY repairs (outside of changing a flat)  and what a fair labor cost should be.

May I suggest you leave a review on Yelp to warn others of their knowledge based pricing?

[Bastet]

I've sometimes wondered if my parents would have ignored gender stereotypes so thoroughly in teaching me how to do things if I'd had a brother.  I doubt they'd have taught us strictly down those artificial lines, because that would be huge shift, but would some of those subconscious biases kicked in and affected things?  I think so.  Just one of the many reasons I'm glad to be an only child.  I learned cooking, sewing, basic-to-moderate electrical and plumbing repairs, auto maintenance, woodworking, painting, how to put down a tile floor ... it was all just self-sufficiency to them, and thus that's how I was raised. 

Their skills tend to fall in line with the gender roles of their time, since that's largely how they were taught, but there's some overlap and some crossing of that gender line, and they didn't express that men should know/are inherently suited for A and women should know/are inherently suited for B.  So they didn't assume I could or should only learn "girl stuff."  But it wasn't fundamentally a conscious effort to do away with that crap; I think it was more - at least initially - that 1) they each only had the one kid to teach their skills to, so I got it all by default, and 2) it was apparent early on that my abilities and interests tended towards a pretty even mix of those traditionally labeled masculine and those traditionally regarded as feminine.  Whatever their gender biases in instigating how-to lessons or subconsciously encouraging interests in me and this mythical brother, I can't imagine they'd have ever listened to either of us express an interest/exhibit a skill in something and tell us, "No, that's for girls/boys."

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I am not even sure there is such a thing and I ain't about to Google it!

I'm somehow reminded of the very serious commercial for the penis pump that you can get with Medicare. They never actually say in the commercial that it's a penis pump. There's a man wearing glasses he's had since the Reagan administration. He says very assertively, "IF YOU HAVE A BRAIN IN YOUR HEAD...!" then you will call and find out how to get a free penis pump.

I bet there are penis models for the instruction guides for penis pumps.

[TattleTeeny]

OH! And the other guy who says something like, "Don't take the best part of life out of life...[Brand X Penis Pump] will give you life..." or some nonsense, haha!

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[bilgistic]

No one pay any attention to the two of us sitting over here cracking up like two misbehaving kids at Grandma's Sunday dinner.

[backformore]

5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Does anybody else remember when want-ads in the newspaper were divided up into "Help Wanted - Male" and "Help Wanted - Female"?  I think about that and can't believe it was in my lifetime.

ME!  there were two separate sections in the paper, because there was no such thing as equal employment rights.   It was common for a man and woman with identical qualifications to be hired at a company, and the woman be hired as the man's secretary, at half the pay.   It was also OK for employers to ask a woman if she planned to get married, and ask a married woman if she  planned on having children - if so, when, and how many? Oh, and do you have your husband's permission to work?   Men were promoted over more qualified women all the time.  And sometimes a woman had to train the man who would then become her boss.  Even if a woman had the same job title as the men in the office, she would have to take notes at meetings, type letters for the men, and make coffee. 

Certain jobs - stewardess, teacher -  women could get fired for being pregnant.  Stewardesses (they were not called flight attendants yet)  would hide their marital status, because they could get fired if they got married.

And - women expected to get harassed on the job.  Working nights to get through college, I had a clerical job at a hospital. I was harassed relentlessly.  I did complain, and it was laughed off as flirting. 

Families -  fathers were expected to pay for their sons' college and their daughters' weddings.  My father refused to pay anything for my college, he considered it a waste of money to educate women.  He did pay for my brothers to go. 

College - I had a college professor - he taught biology - who bragged that he never had, and never would, give a female student an A.  His reasoning is that medical schools were now accepting women! Women were taking up spots in medical school that rightfully belonged to men,  and female doctors would only work a short time before quitting to have babies, so it was a waste of education.  This professor was dong his part to advance the careers of men,  by holding women back.  women who got less than an A in biology would not get into med school.  This was the teacher's policy, and it was unchallenged.

[PRgal]

What I'm most uncomfortable with regarding 21st century feminism is the focus on STEM subjects.  Yes, math and science are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT - especially for girls as they are often discouraged from taking them, but what about FINANCE?  Investment banks are still dominated by men, yet I do not hear of people clamouring for girls to go into FINANCE (sure, math is involved, but it's more than math.  It requires skill to negotiate trades, etc, etc... STEM is not enough) or politics (and thus, reopening the importance of the liberal arts.  Want to understand the world?  Why not take history?  We can LEARN A LOT and what NOT TO DO, at that)?  

[DeLurker]

19 minutes ago, PRgal said:

yet I do not hear of people clamouring for girls to go into FINANCE (sure, math is involved, but it's more than math.

I have a Bachelors in Business Admin, (finance) and business majors were not required to take real math like the science and engineering types had to.  We took survey of calculus and other math courses.  I worked in real estate finance for most of my adult life - the majority of it in commercial and multifamily.  I ground a lot of numbers and used algebra on a daily basis, but in my field, the lack of the STEM type math requirements never was required.

[JTMacc99]

12 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Yes! I realize some people who are married also have to do everything but as a single person, I just don't want to hear about it. I literally have to do everything myself.

I appreciate that you used the word people there. 

And to be fair, the difference between a single person having to shoulder the entire load and a married person, probably with children, is that there's another adult dropping a bunch of responsibility on you in addition to everything you would have needed to do just by yourself.

As it typical for this thread, it's some other person (it always boils down to other people) that makes it worse.

[ABay]

The moral of this thread: other people suck.

[DeLurker]

45 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

And to be fair, the difference between a single person having to shoulder the entire load and a married person, probably with children, is that there's another adult dropping a bunch of responsibility on you in addition to everything you would have needed to do just by yourself.

After I got separated, I found most things much more manageable in terms of life load.  I no longer had this expectation that the other person would do something, but didn't (and all the associated peeves that go with that).  I knew what needed to be done, I knew if it had been done or not done and if it hadn't, I knew why.  No surprises that way.

[TattleTeeny]

I feel a little guilty posting this but it's relevant. I'll say first that my BF is very awesome in many ways. However, today, I am using a vacation day simply because it seems that my mere presence seems to cause him to forget how to be an autonomous adult who knows how to do things! Ugh.

So, I got the postcard last week saying our two cats are due for their yearly checkups. My BF likes to go to these appointments (he's a proud Cat Dad). Because his work schedule is trickier than my regular 9-to-5 one (at a place that is very accommodating regarding leaving early or showing up late), I asked him to call and make the appointment--it just made more sense, as anytime is OK for me, while that is not the case for him. But nope--"But you're the one they know...it's your name on the account...I've never made a cat appointment before..." Blah-blah-blah, all things that should be no problem at all for an adult (not to mention stuff he, as a pet owner, should be comfortable with doing)! Of course, I ended up doing it.

Well, the appointment was made for 4 p.m. today. Because our vet's office is closer to my office than it is to our home, and because he gets home from work at about 3 today (and our home is pretty much on the way to the vet's office from his job), I proposed that I go to work for most of the day, leave early, and meet him at the vet as opposed to leaving work even earlier, basically passing the vet's office to come home and grab the boys, and then driving almost all the way back to where I'd have just come from. NOPE! I got "but I never had to put them in their carriers myself..." and "I've never driven by myself with them..." THESE THINGS ARE NOT HARD! The cats don't love any of it but it's all more than doable, as I have done it several times!

And so, to avoid being in the car today for double the time I'd normally be, I ended up using a vacation day for this. Granted, my employers are very generous with vacation days but, still, I'm annoyed.
 

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[DeLurker]

I'd suggest when you meet at the appointment, he puts the cats in their carriers (by himself) when it is done, he drives them home and you introduce him to the very scary people that work at the front desk so he can call next time.

[TattleTeeny]

That's just it--we aren't meeting there (and had we settled on that plan, he'd have had to put them in the carriers himself at home; sure, you have to somewhat aggressively cram 'em in there but it can be done with love!). And the vet can look up accounts with our pets' names, for corn's sake--not that they'd need to because my BF should probably know what my name is. I mean, what's the security issue here? Who's running around making fake vet appointments haha!

I feel like similar stuff happens with housework: I ask if he would mind changing our sheets when he gets home from work a few hours earlier than I do. I come in to find the bed stripped, and the clean sheets sitting on it, still folded. The explanation: "It's easier to do with two people." Not really; it's easy either way. I asked you to do it so I don't have to. And yet, I still have to. And while I am ranting like a sitcom harridan shrew, I'll add that I don't feel like I should have to ask for stuff all the time--that's just one more job for me, if you think about it! I am not the "cruise director" here! Bah! 

Furthermore, yes that can go in the dishwasher; it's from the very same set of plates I've had since before I even met you--the "octuplet sibling" of the plate you asked me the same thing about just last night! Come on-- just try to, like, know your own home a little bit. Please. 

This comic kind of illustrates what I mean here:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[auntlada]

I think he's wrong. It's easier to put sheets on the bed by yourself because the other person always does it wrong and gets mad at you when you move to his side to fix it.

[Katy M]

45 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

not that they'd need to because my BF should probably know what my name is.

You should make sure.  I was engaged once.  My fiancé asked me what I would want to name kids if we had any.  My last name is a male first name.  So, that's what I said for a boy.  He squished up his face and asked "where did you come up with that?"  Now, I would be totally fine with him not wanting to name a boy that, but to ask me where I came up with it?  Yikes.  My fiancé..  Not a first date situation.

47 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

It's easier to do with two people."

I don't think I've ever put sheets on with two people.  I don't really think it would be that much easier.  Sure, you wouldn't have to walk around the bed, but unless you have a quadruple-king bed (of which I'm marginally sure there is no such thing), it shouldn't be a big deal to take a walk or two around the bed.  OTOH, if you're picky about hospital corners and such, I can see why he might hesitate to do it on his own.

[TattleTeeny]

I think I'd be less peeved if he came right out and said, "I don't want to."

[JTMacc99]

Let's face it. Life's a lot easier if somebody else will do it for you.

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

This comic kind of illustrates what I mean here:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

I have a sure fire way to make the man take on more responsibilities. Have the wife fall down a deep well of depression, then declare herself unhappy, and then go shack up with some vegan leaving the husband to take on approximately 90% of everything from financial to household to child care.  

Works every time in my experience. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by JTMacc99

[TattleTeeny]

Well, yikes--that sounds like quite a mess! I'm sorry, JTMacc (if that's autobiographical, that is). 

But, it's legally my home, my name's on all the bills, I'd never ditch the kids (in our case, cats)...and I'm the vegan!

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny
Also, I love him. It's just...come on now with this nonsense!

[MrSmith]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:38 AM, Katy M said:

No one can really disagree with that, but the meaning has changed over the years.  You can't be a stay-at-home mom.  Not that you shouldn't be able to be  a stay-at-home dad, either, but that's not where the focus is at.  And, it's also that women should get paid the same as men regardless of how much time they miss from work, be it from maternity leave or leaving early every day to pick up the kids.  Again, I'm not saying that men don't do these things also (OK, they probably don't take maternity leave, but maybe they're out for a few weeks with a back injury or something), but you don't usually hear about them getting upset about not getting paid for hours they are not working, or being passed up for promotions in favor of people who didn't just miss a month or two of work. 

Part of the problem with the attitude you display here is that the reason women were being passed over for promotions and not being paid the same is because employers love, Love, LOVE to believe they fucking own you by virtue of employing you. Another problem is that you're still buying into the thinking that the only person who needs to bond with the new baby (and the only person whose bonding benefits the baby) is the mother. Science has pretty well debunked this wrong-headed thinking. Yet another thing is that employers in America think that they MUST have a body to fill that position for the scant amount of time off women get after having a baby; the reality is that they do not. All it requires is spreading the work out such that everyone else gets a small addition to their workload, rather than just dumping all of the new mother's work off onto one or two people. Americans have a really fucked up relationship with work and family balance. Swedish companies are mandated by law to give the new parents up to 1 year (mostly paid!) time off after having a baby. You don't see those companies failing to compete, now do you? And there are other countries that have very generous maternity AND paternity leave laws, including (if I recall correctly) Denmark, France, Belgium, Norway, and Netherlands. I was a union steward for many years in a previous job and saw, up-close and personal, the shenanigans management gets up to, the absolute disregard they have for employees, and the bullshit they'll try to pull against employees they don't like. If you don't think there is favoritism at your workplace, you've not yet looked in the places it's hiding.

On 6/12/2017 at 8:34 AM, TattleTeeny said:

Personally, I don't think the meaning itself has changed; I do think that people apply personal interpretations to it. My grandma has said she's not a feminist. Meanwhile, after taking off on her abusive alcoholic husband in the '60s, getting a divorce, and working for a living to pay the bills for herself and kids, I'd call her one.

Part of feminism, in my interpretation, is that you most certainly can be a stay-at-home mom; the point is a woman doing what she decides to do regardless of gender roles, even if her chosen "position" happens to be something that other women fought to "escape"--emphasis on the word chosen and not escape. They wanted to escape the pigeonholing (to put it kindly), not necessarily the role itself.

A salary is what is paid for the job that is to be done, not the person that is doing it. Of course credentials, experience, and education can factor in to what that salary is, but those things can be quantified without even knowing what a person's gender is. With the exception of wet nurse or...I don't know--penis model?--gender on its own affects nothing in job qualification.

This. My wife is a housewife and you should see the looks and reactions she gets from other women when she tells them that. She's very happy being a housewife, too, and takes quite a lot of pride in the work she does (and she works very hard!). But the point of feminism is the freedom of choice to do for a living (and hobbies, etc) whatever it is that fulfills the person.

[MrSmith]

On 6/12/2017 at 9:24 AM, backformore said:

As for maternity leave - it's not even called that, it's Family-Medical Leave, meaning that people, male or female,  can take time off to have a baby, adopt a child, tend to their health or that of a family member, or even care for an aging parent.

FMLA is a very poor implementation. Sure, you can have six weeks off when you have a baby or adopt a child. Most of that is unpaid. And if the parents both work for the same employer, they only get six weeks between them - not each. So I wouldn't go around bugling about how great FMLA is because it is really, truly, and completely utter shit as a policy. It's the absolute least that can be done for new parents, other than giving them no time off at all.

[ennui]

15 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

I hate being priced-gouged just because I'm female. I hate relying on a male figure to get a fair price. I hate that single women have to be complete experts on everything in order to not being taken advantage of.

Reputable shops don't do that, so I wouldn't go back to that repair facility. Also, many young modern men don't know anything about cars, either, so they get taken advantage of, as well.

[MrSmith]

On 6/12/2017 at 10:49 AM, TattleTeeny said:

Of course, the whole "working woman" thing brings about its own set of issues, sometimes more so if the chicks are the breadwinners! I don't even have kids but let me tell you there are days when I think, "Fuck this shit--all that progress so that now I can work 50 hours a week, pay the bills, and STILL do the majority of the housework?" Bah!

This indicates an imbalance in your relationship. In my opinion, it further indicates a lack of respect for, and appreciation of, you by your significant other. When my wife and I both worked, I contributed to keeping the house at least as much as she did. Sometimes more, but that was because my workload compared to hers was less and afforded me more time to keep the house. So I happily helped keep the house because I didn't want it to all be on her. This was in part because it is unfair and also in part because it meant I got to spend more time with her when we were both off together. Instead of having to keep the house when we were both off work, we could go out and play together and take trips and have fun - even if the house wasn't perfectly kept before we left - because we knew that we would each contribute to keeping the house according to the time we had available outside of work.

Even now, when my wife gets sick, I contribute to keeping the house because she needs the time off to recuperate. I have a select few meals I can make and I'll cook those things when she is sick, rather than her having to get up and do the cooking.

[ennui]

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

So, I got the postcard last week saying our two cats are due for their yearly checkups.

Remember all of this before you have children with this person. I have an acquaintance -- when they married, they were planning on three children. With the first baby, husband never lifted a finger. Wife was working full time, and still responsible for everything at home. The last I heard, she said no more children. One was too much.

[PRgal]

17 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

Part of the problem with the attitude you display here is that the reason women were being passed over for promotions and not being paid the same is because employers love, Love, LOVE to believe they fucking own you by virtue of employing you. Another problem is that you're still buying into the thinking that the only person who needs to bond with the new baby (and the only person whose bonding benefits the baby) is the mother. Science has pretty well debunked this wrong-headed thinking. Yet another thing is that employers in America think that they MUST have a body to fill that position for the scant amount of time off women get after having a baby; the reality is that they do not. All it requires is spreading the work out such that everyone else gets a small addition to their workload, rather than just dumping all of the new mother's work off onto one or two people. Americans have a really fucked up relationship with work and family balance. Swedish companies are mandated by law to give the new parents up to 1 year (mostly paid!) time off after having a baby. You don't see those companies failing to compete, now do you? And there are other countries that have very generous maternity AND paternity leave laws, including (if I recall correctly) Denmark, France, Belgium, Norway, and Netherlands. I was a union steward for many years in a previous job and saw, up-close and personal, the shenanigans management gets up to, the absolute disregard they have for employees, and the bullshit they'll try to pull against employees they don't like. If you don't think there is favoritism at your workplace, you've not yet looked in the places it's hiding.

That's exactly IT!  Even in Canada, where maternity leave is technically only the first part of parental leave (and only available to families where the mother was pregnant herself - in other words, ), it is the usually WOMAN who takes the entire year.  Men might take a few weeks off, but that's usually taken from his vacation days.  My husband is very hesitant to take more than two months, telling me that it would hurt his career (I work from home and freelance so I technically don't get such benefits).  Well, yeah, and it goes both ways.  The current laws say that parents who take time off will return to the same or equivalent position.  So unless you actually apply for a new job/position, you can't expect to be promoted as soon as you return.  Logic, people LOGIC!  In other words, if one takes an entire year off, one LOSES an entire year's worth of experience.  This can slow down one's career.  DUH. 

[MrSmith]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't think I've ever put sheets on with two people.  I don't really think it would be that much easier.  Sure, you wouldn't have to walk around the bed, but unless you have a quadruple-king bed (of which I'm marginally sure there is no such thing), it shouldn't be a big deal to take a walk or two around the bed.  OTOH, if you're picky about hospital corners and such, I can see why he might hesitate to do it on his own.

Yeah, there's only "king" and "California king", which is slightly larger. As for hospital corners, wtf? Is he constitutionally incapable of learning something new? The apparent answer would be "no" since he managed to survive to adulthood and I doubt his parents were holding his hand every step of the way. Hospital corners are not hard. I was able to teach my wife how to do them and she didn't even whine about having to learn. That said, we have long since dispensed with hospital corners because it leads to me just tearing the bed up that much faster.

[MrSmith]

3 minutes ago, PRgal said:

That's exactly IT!  Even in Canada, where maternity leave is technically only the first part of parental leave (and only available to families where the mother was pregnant herself - in other words, ), it is the usually WOMAN who takes the entire year.  Men might take a few weeks off, but that's usually taken from his vacation days.  My husband is very hesitant to take more than two months, telling me that it would hurt his career (I work from home and freelance so I technically don't get such benefits).  Well, yeah, and it goes both ways.  The current laws say that parents who take time off will return to the same or equivalent position.  So unless you actually apply for a new job/position, you can't expect to be promoted as soon as you return.  Logic, people LOGIC!  In other words, if one takes an entire year off, one LOSES an entire year's worth of experience.  This can slow down one's career.  DUH. 

I don't think we are in agreement on some of the things in my post. My point was (in the part you bolded) that it is both fathers and mothers who need to bond with the baby; doing so helps both the baby and each of the parents. Until we start respecting that fact, we will continue to stunt our children's growth and potential and perpetuate sexism.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

As for hospital corners, wtf? Is he constitutionally incapable of learning something new? The apparent answer would be "no" since he managed to survive to adulthood and I doubt his parents were holding his hand every step of the way. Hospital corners are not hard.

My point was just that some people, and I'm not saying that the OP is one of them, are just ridiculously hard to please.  If someone else makes the bed it in a reasonable manner, that ought to be the end of it.  If you want it done a certain way, you should do it yourself instead of telling someone else they did it all wrong.  Hospital corners are not a necessity to making a bed.  If you have to have them, make your own bed. 

Or, if they change the toilet paper on the roll, and gasp, put it on the wrong way, and you yell at them about it.  Expect to never have the toilet paper roll changed again.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

This indicates an imbalance in your relationship. In my opinion, it further indicates a lack of respect for, and appreciation of, you by your significant other.

I agree, but because I know how he operates, I'll attribute it to ignorance (not the mean definition of the word--though this kind can make me feel mean!--but the "unaware" version). I'll also admit to doing more because (1) I do have more "down" time, and (2) that's just kind of how I operate. What I need, though, is more understanding when I bring up these things as opposed to defensiveness or indifference. Yes, I am higher-strung--I will not argue that. But please do not let that define my reasoning; I can have a point and also be high-strung, you know! That said, I plan to sit around reading a book while he puts the boys into the carriers (and sees that it takes all of two minutes).

When directly confronted or even just when he's in conversations with friends, his appreciation of me is obvious; the mundane day-to-day life, however, leaves a bit to be desired.

 

Quote

Remember all of this before you have children with this person.

No worries there--I'm in my mid-40s and don't want any!

 

Quote

As for hospital corners, wtf? Is he constitutionally incapable of learning something new?

While no one cares about hospital corners here (though I do prefer that the sheet come up enough to be folded over the semi-fuzzy comforter, which I don't like touching my face when I sleep), the "learning something new" part is an issue to me in general. Perfect example? Not calling the vet in the first place! You don't "know how" (in quotes because who doesn't know how to do that?), then take this opportunity to learn--it took more time to tell me why you couldn't than it would have to just do it!

While they are not human kids, our cats depend on us to take care of them. While I have no doubt that he could do so in my absence, I just sometimes feel like my very presence causes him to not bother to know stuff. It's more lazy (and disrespectful, even if that disrespect is certainly not deliberate) than stupid or rude. It reminds me of a scene in that movie with Vince Vaughan and Jennifer Aniston: I don't necessarily want him to do the thing, but I want him to want to do the thing!

Quote

 

My point was just that some people, and I'm not saying that the OP is one of them, are just ridiculously hard to please.  If someone else makes the bed it in a reasonable manner, that ought to be the end of it.  If you want it done a certain way, you should do it yourself instead of telling someone else they did it all wrong.  Hospital corners are not a necessity to making a bed.  If you have to have them, make your own bed. 

Or, if they change the toilet paper on the roll, and gasp, put it on the wrong way, and you yell at them about it.  Expect to never have the toilet paper roll changed again.

 

Well, this is not me, though I will tell you why it doesn't working some instances (putting a dinner plate flat across the top rack of the dishwasher because what in the hell? I did laugh at that all night though. Or just deciding that dishes go in any old cabinet as opposed to where they've always been). I do think that it's a bit immature to summarily employ an "if you want it this way, do it yourself" attitude when you are sharing a home though.

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[MrSmith]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

My point was just that some people, and I'm not saying that the OP is one of them, are just ridiculously hard to please.  If someone else makes the bed it in a reasonable manner, that ought to be the end of it.  If you want it done a certain way, you should do it yourself instead of telling someone else they did it all wrong.  Hospital corners are not a necessity to making a bed.  If you have to have them, make your own bed. 

Or, if they change the toilet paper on the roll, and gasp, put it on the wrong way, and you yell at them about it.  Expect to never have the toilet paper roll changed again.

I agree with your points here. If I want something done a particular way, I don't ask my wife to do it and then get upset with the results. I simply do it myself. For the things she does around the house, I am always thankful and appreciative and tell (and show) her regularly, and I especially do not complain about how the things she does are done (not that I have anything to complain about - it's just the point).

7 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I agree, but because I know how he operates, I'll attribute it to ignorance (not the mean definition of the word--though this kind can make me feel mean!--but the "unaware" version). I'll also admit to doing more because (1) I do have more "down" time, and (2) that's just kind of how I operate. What I need, though, is more understanding when I bring up these things as opposed to defensiveness or indifference. Yes, I am higher-strung--I will not argue that. But please do not let that define my reasoning; I can have a point and also be high-strung, you know! That said, I plan to sit around reading a book while he puts the boys into the carriers (and sees that it takes all of two minutes).

When directly confronted or even just when he's in conversations with friends, his appreciation of me is obvious; the mundane day-to-day life, however, leaves a bit to be desired.

 

No worries there--I'm in my mid-40s and don't want any!

Well, you're happy (mostly, anyway; or so it seems) and that's what's important. For me, the bolded part is among the most important, but that's just my own opinion. The reason is that I feel those are the things that show the most consideration, respect, and appreciation for your partner. It's easy to do the big things; the little things take more effort to be aware of and to be aware of how they impact the other person. Again, that's just me and the approach I use. Clearly, your mileage may vary.

[PRgal]

21 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

I don't think we are in agreement on some of the things in my post. My point was (in the part you bolded) that it is both fathers and mothers who need to bond with the baby; doing so helps both the baby and each of the parents. Until we start respecting that fact, we will continue to stunt our children's growth and potential and perpetuate sexism.

We ARE in agreement.  The career excuse is usually used because they don't think it's their job.  Canada still doesn't have time specifically carved out for fathers because it's implied that leave is for women.  And then you have women who feel that they NEED all the time to recover (okay, fine, you had a tough pregnancy, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE LET YOUR SPOUSE TAKE TIME TO BOND TOO).  At the same time, our society needs to be "okay" with boys playing with traditionally "girl" toys at the same rate as we are encouraging girls to play with traditionally "boy" toys.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

Well, yikes--that sounds like quite a mess! I'm sorry, JTMacc (if that's autobiographical, that is). 

But, it's legally my home, my name's on all the bills, I'd never ditch the kids (in our case, cats)...and I'm the vegan!

We've talked about this before TattleTeeny, you're my favorite kind of vegan! Shacking up with you would be perfectly acceptable, both from the vegan standpoint, and from the way you run your home. 

It does sound like you've got a bit of the "I'll just sit back and let you tell me what to do" dynamic going on. It's understandable to be a little peeved about it some days. I'm short on answers on how to change the behavior. (I recommend against doing what I mentioned.)

And no need to say sorry. Water long since under the bridge. 

 

[MrSmith]

2 minutes ago, PRgal said:

We ARE in agreement.  The career excuse is usually used because they don't think it's their job.  Canada still doesn't have time specifically carved out for fathers because it's implied that leave is for women.  And then you have women who feel that they NEED all the time to recover (okay, fine, you had a tough pregnancy, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE LET YOUR SPOUSE TAKE TIME TO BOND TOO).  At the same time, our society needs to be "okay" with boys playing with traditionally "girl" toys at the same rate as we are encouraging girls to play with traditionally "boy" toys.

I apologize for misunderstanding.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Well, you're happy (mostly, anyway; or so it seems) and that's what's important. For me, the bolded part is among the most important, but that's just my own opinion. The reason is that I feel those are the things that show the most consideration, respect, and appreciation for your partner. It's easy to do the big things; the little things take more effort to be aware of and to be aware of how they impact the other person. Again, that's just me and the approach I use. Clearly, your mileage may vary.

Quote

 

It does sound like you've got a bit of the "I'll just sit back and let you tell me what to do" dynamic going on. It's understandable to be a little peeved about it some days. I'm short on answers on how to change the behavior. (I recommend against doing what I mentioned.)

 

 

 

I think the mundane is more important too, but accept that his mileage may vary. The thing with him is that he gets caught up in his shit, while I get caught up in our shit. It's generally navigable, if annoying--and does sometimes require a reminder about priorities. Yes, we can have different priority lists, whatever, fine. But just because I am not high-maintenance doesn't mean I want no maintenance!

It's no real crime to be the "sit back" guy, and he will do what is asked for the most part, but it can get old being the Chronic Asker! I feel like a nag when I am not actually nagging, and I don't like that. 

Now I feel mean though--like a disloyal girlfriend for saying this stuff! Still, he will put those cats into their carriers, bwahahahhahhahaaaaa!
 

Edited June 13, 2017 by TattleTeeny