Relationships: Speed Dating

[blugirlami21]

I never understood the foster care incest thing here or on the fosters. They weren't raised together from birth. In the fosters case they're basically complete strangers who happen to be put in a foster situation as teenagers and in Barry and Iris' case they were classmates who through tragic circumstances were raised under the same roof. It does not make them siblings or create feelings of kinship especially not in Barry's case since he had a crush on Iris before that. I think Iris considered Barry her bff and never a brother.

I also don't understand the idea that you can only love one person. Ever. In life. People are able to have many different kinds of love in a life. Eddie was obviously Iris' first real adult relationship. They lived together, they were thinking about getting married. I think it's ok for her to miss him or feel sad about his passing less than a year later. I never thought it meant that she considered Eddie the end all and be all for love in her life.

She was obviously conflicted about her feelings for Barry while she was with Eddie so it's hard for me to see how we're supposed to think that she loved Eddie most.

I think the erased day is neither here nor there at this point. Barry tried to recreate it before Iris was ready and it blew up in his face. I can imagine the same thing happening if he brings it up again especially since Eddie is no longer with us.

I think earth 2 Barry and Iris got together because Barry never became the flash. She started dating Eddie while Barry was in a coma. I also remember Eddie mentioning he missed a blind date and that's how he met Iris. Maybe that date was his wife in the original timeline. We also have to remember that the reverse flash killing Barry's mother changed everything for earth 1 Barry.

Edited April 1, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Ruby25]

I also don't understand the idea that you can only love one person. Evet. In life. People are able to have many different kinds of love in a life. Eddie was obviously Iris' first real adult relationship. They lived together, they were thinking about getting married. I think it's ok for her to miss him or feel sad about his passing less than a year later. I never thought it meant that she considered Eddie the end all and be all for love in her life.

She was obviously conflicted about her feelings for Barry while she was with Eddie so it's hard for me to see how we're supposed to think that she loved Eddie most.

 

I think they have retconned Eddie's importance way more than was necessary this season. He was never her fiance, he never proposed, she never got a ring from him. And yet everyone has continually referred to him as that this year.

 

And remember when Joe was trying to force Barry to date Patty and he did it by saying you'll never feel for anyone the way you felt for Iris because she was your first love, but you have to move on? Well, that's a fantastic start for any relationship right there, because obviously Patty was doomed to be a consolation prize from the beginning, but we all know Barry only loves Iris anyway, so whatever.

 

But if that logic is true, then by that reasoning, and with they way they've retconned it, isn't Eddie that person for Iris, and anyone after him will be the consolation prize for her? Sure seems to be the way they've written it.

 

I just don't get why they'd want to inflate Eddie's memory to the point where Barry seems like a consolation prize, which he totally does at this point. I think the only thing that would change that would be if she found out that she HERSELF was going to leave Eddie for Barry anyway and already confessed her feelings to Barry in a day that he accidentally erased. Finding that out would diminish the Eddie relationship in her mind a bit, which NEEDS to happen, so that Barry can be seen as the one. Not just "a" one, but "the" one. Eddie was a roadblock that never should have happened at all, and wasn't supposed to anyway.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ruby25

[Trini]

I think the writers kind of botched the Barry/Iris thing by making Barry Iris' foster brother.  The idea that the two spent years in a brother-sister relationship kind of kills any desire I have to see them in a romance.I don't like semi-incest ....

That was a huge botch because they turned off a certain section of people whose  first thoughts are incest.

It also means that over-protective Joe was fine with putting a hormonal teenager with a crush on his daughter in the same house on a permanent sleepover. The writers also robbed Iris of the one thing in this story that Iris should've been able to have for herself. They couldn't have thought up any better foster parents then the father of the girl that he's supposed to be with?

I never understood the foster care incest thing here or on the fosters. They weren't raised together from birth. In ... Barry and Iris' case they were classmates who through tragic circumstances were raised under the same roof. It does not make them siblings or create feelings of kinship especially not in Barry's case since he had a crush on Iris before that. I think Iris considered Barry her bff and never a brother.

 

I agree that having Barry and Iris be raised in the same household might have been a misstep -- or at least a strange place for them to start; especially since the show repeatedly emphasizes the father-son relationship between Joe and Barry.  I do think there would be feelings of kinship. However, I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle to a romance between them.  (Although, it's going to be super awkward with Joe, Barry, and Iris all living in the same place if they really go ahead with Barry/Iris as a couple.)

[Ruby25]

I agree that having Barry and Iris be raised in the same household might have been a misstep -- or at least a strange place for them to start; especially since the show repeatedly emphasizes the father-son relationship between Joe and Barry.  I do think there would be feelings of kinship. However, I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle to a romance between them.  (Although, it's going to be super awkward with Joe, Barry, and Iris all living in the same place if they really go ahead with Barry/Iris as a couple.)

I have to assume that Barry and Iris are probably going to get their own place as soon as they get together for this reason. There's no way to avoid the major inappropriateness of them dating while both living with Joe, so at least one of them has to move out as soon as that happens, for obvious reasons.

 

And given that they already live in the same house and have for the past year, it's not like it'd be too soon to just get a place of their own. So I'm guessing that's what they'll do. And then Wally will move in with Joe.

 

The show really loves the West house setting though (alternate universe Joe apparently gave them the house on E2), so I'm also guessing that most of the family scenes will continue to take place there. But they can't just let Iris and Barry keep living there when they're a couple. Right? I don't think they'll do that.

 

Either they have to leave or Joe does, lol.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ruby25

[xyzzy]

I think Iris considered Barry her bff and never a brother.

 

Iris West in the pilot:

"Even though we pretty much grew up in the same house together and are kinda like brother and sister, because we’re not brother and sister, it can get really... weird and awkward talking to me about girls. But I want you to know, it shouldn’t be awkward. There’s nothing I want more than for you to meet the right person that totally loves and adores you for the amazing guy you are.."

 

 

See, they had to bring up the brother/not brother awkwardness right away, which just brought it to the forefront for some people. Add that to the many, many scenes emphasizing the "second father" nature of Barry's relationship with JWest and I can see why many viewers end up trying to picture themselves falling in love with someone they've seen tucked into bed wearing Spiderman underoos and just not being able to understand romantic love emerging from that situation. It's certainly not textbook incest--they aren't related at all. But for some people, it's hard to relate to. Count me as one of them. However, as I said in an episode thread, I don't care if they finally put Iris and Barry together. I'm just not feeling the "epic love" that supposedly happens in the comics.

[driedfruit]

I agree that having Barry and Iris be raised in the same household might have been a misstep -- or at least a strange place for them to start; especially since the show repeatedly emphasizes the father-son relationship between Joe and Barry.  I do think there would be feelings of kinship. However, I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle to a romance between them.  (Although, it's going to be super awkward with Joe, Barry, and Iris all living in the same place if they really go ahead with Barry/Iris as a couple.)

 

I don't think it was a misstep at all, because part of the charm for them as a couple was their unusual history. However, the evolution of Barry/Joe's relationship and Barry moving back into the West home were missteps, in regards to Iris/Barry.

 

You can't impress everyone. Ship wars exist in every fandom because preferences play a big part in how people respond to romance. The writers constructed Iris/Barry's history knowing some would be turned off (AK has commented on this) but also others would be moved by the almost fairytale like bond Iris/Barry have, the kind of love and connection that dwarfs their other romances in comparison. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by driedfruit

[blugirlami21]

I would have to go back and watch to be honest but I'm pretty sure Eddie told Iris his intentions when she was being passive aggressive about having feelings for Barry. I know that Iris was intending to reconcile with Eddie before he killed himself.

I don't know that I would say that calling him her fiance means that their relationship is being elevated. It's mostly true. Eddie has barely been mentioned this season. Which was prob a byproduct of Iris receiving very little screen time until recently.

Yes, in a different timeline Iris chose Barry over Eddie. She has also done that on other earths as well which makes her and Barry seem inevitable imo. This Iris needs to come to that realization on her own. It doesn't matter what happened on the erased day because it basically never happened.

The Batty relationship was a misstep. I didn't understand her purpose or why they had Barry acting like he wasn't completely in love with Iris last season. I can't get a good read on Barry's feelings for Iris anymore.

I would say that more than anything to do with Iris' feelings for Eddie is what concerns me. At the end of the day Eddie is dead. He and Iris aren't getting back together. She has to say goodbye to him so she can move forward with Barry.

As for the Wests living together. I don't think it would be any weirder than a married couple living with their parents. Joe seems to be a big supporter of Barry and Iris being together.

I like their choice of back story because they have a built in rapport and it has given us Joe and Barry's relationship, which is one of my favorite father/son relationships.

I dunno ymmv. These kinds of situational relationships have never bothered me.

Edited April 1, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Ruby25]

The Batty relationship was a misstep. I didn't understand her purpose or why they had Barry acting like he wasn't completely in love with Iris last season. I can't get a good read on Barry's feelings for Iris anymore.

As for the Wests living together. I don't think it would be any weirder than a married couple living with their parents. Joe seems to be a big supporter of Barry and Iris being together.

I like their choice of back story because they have a built in rapport and it has given us Joe and Barry's relationship, which is one of my favorite father/son relationships.

I dunno ymmv. These kinds of situational relationships have never bothered me.

 

Yeah, the Barry/Patty thing was SO pointless, especially now. I mean, the second she left, did anyone miss her presence? As far as the audience is concerned, she may as well have never existed. She served no purpose in the long run at all, and the show improved the minute she went away. I still think she was only there so they can say Barry's had one real girlfriend before Iris, since he really hadn't yet, but that was it. Looking back on it, that was a total waste of time.

 

With the living arrangements, I suppose it is like a married couple living with their parents, and that I don't have a problem with. But the thing is, Barry and Iris aren't married yet, and they probably are not going to get married one week after they start dating, lol. They have to go through some kind of newly romantic adjustment period, and that has GOT to be weird if they're both living with Joe. I mean come on, are they going to start sleeping together in his house? That's the awkwardness there. If they get their own place, and then later on after they're married, their place burns down or something and they both move back in with Joe, then fine. But they're not there yet.

 

I like Joe and Barry's relationship too, and to me it's just like a father and son-in-law thing, so I don't think that's any kind of an issue. Some people call their in-laws "mom" or "dad," even. It's going to be incredibly easy for them to transition to that when it happens- it won't even really be a transition.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ruby25

[Oscirus]

never understood the foster care incest thing here or on the fosters. They weren't raised together from birth. In the fosters case they're basically complete strangers who happen to be put in a foster situation as teenagers and in Barry and Iris' case they were classmates who through tragic circumstances were raised under the same roof. It does not make them siblings or create feelings of kinship especially not in Barry's case since he had a crush on Iris before that. I think Iris considered Barry her bff and never a brother.

 

Still problematic. Joe still arranged for a kid who had a crush on his daughter to  have a permanent sleep over with her and since last season basically confirms that he's apparently a west-allen shipper, he basically child brided his daughter which is not charming at all.

As a matter of fact the only thing this story shows is that the showrunners were too cheap to hire a couple of actors to play Barry's foster parents.

 

the visuals of Barry and Caitlin raised an interesting possibility for a relationship.

 

And that's not a good pairing either. Their pairing would be slightly less annoying then the "adorkable" Batty pairing.

[phoenics]

Possibly, but I know they aren't related in real life and their characters aren't related on the show, so I'd be okay if Barry and Caitlin got together.  I'd also be okay if they didn't.  Barry/Iris feels a little squicky to me due to their earlier relationship, but I could get over it.  I really don't have strong feelings about any romances on this show.  Aside from maybe Patty, who felt kind of Fatal Attraction in waiting.

Iris and Barry are also not related, either in real life or on the show. They are not adopted or foster siblings either. They simply grew up together past a certain age. The race thing should be a dead giveaway from them being related, I'd hope, lol. Also Barry had feelings for Iris before he moved in with them... he never saw her as a sister. I do wish the writers had never had Iris mention the "kinda like brother and sister" line - it was terrible and stupid. Almost wonder if the writers unintentionally self-sabotaged it for "reasons" that I'd illuminate in the lightning rod thread if I wasn't so sick of this same discussion, lol.

And I disagree. I think you DO have strong feelings about the romances on this show, as evidenced by your comments.

Off-topic: Are you still watching Sleepy Hollow since Season 2 when they killed off Katrina? You seem to have disappeared on the SH boards since then... did Katrina being killed off kill your enjoyment of the show? PM me if you want.

[blugirlami21]

Still problematic. Joe still arranged for a kid who had a crush on his daughter to have a permanent sleep over with her and since last season basically confirms that he's apparently a west-allen shipper, he basically child brided his daughter which is not charming at all.

When did Joe arrange for Barry's parents to be killed so that Barry could come live with them? That's a lot of orchestrating. Joe seemed to have some knowledge of who Barry was which to me seems that Barry was prob one of Iris' friends from school.

It's a small town and Joe's a cop. Maybe he was the best foster choice for a child who's mother had just been murdered.

Joe supported Barry's feelings for Iris but he also supported her lack of feelings for Barry. I never got the sense that he ever tried to really push them together so much as make them be honest about their true feelings.

Your perception on their upbringing is far squickier than anything else I've ever seen.

[Trini]

Forgive my nitpicky-ness:

I would have to go back and watch to be honest but I'm pretty sure Eddie told Iris his intentions when she was being passive aggressive about having feelings for Barry. I know that Iris was intending to reconcile with Eddie before he killed himself. ...
 

 

Iris and Eddie did in fact reconcile in the season finale; the whole "screw the future" scene.

 

Iris and Barry are also not related, either in real life or on the show. They are not adopted or foster siblings either. They simply grew up together past a certain age. ...

 

The show has never been (and probably never will be) clear about the legal relationship, but I think "foster father" has been used at least once to describe Joe in relation to Barry. So I think it's okay to use "foster siblings" when it comes to Iris and Barry, since they were raised in the same household by the same person (not for Barry's entire childhood, but a good portion) -- using the broadest definition of fostering.

 

---------

I've been meaning to write up something about Patty (who I didn't mind, for the record), but I've got to review her episodes. I guess I have time with this hiatus.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Trini

[driedfruit]

Still problematic. Joe still arranged for a kid who had a crush on his daughter to  have a permanent sleep over with her and since last season basically confirms that he's apparently a west-allen shipper, he basically child brided his daughter which is not charming at all.

 

It also means that over-protective Joe was fine with putting a hormonal teenager with a crush on his daughter in the same house on a permanent sleepover.

 

 

To Joe's credit, while he's very protective of Iris' life, he's never been concerned with her sex life. It's perfectly believable that he wouldn't treat Barry as some sexual predator and like any rational parent, he would know that he doesn't have to chain his daughter in the dungeon to stop her from engaging in sexual activity the moment she's alone with a boy. In addition, in Iris' own words their house was lonely before Barry moved in. It made sense that Joe would see benefit in letting his lonely motherless daughter keep her best friend.

 

And how has Joe child brided Iris when he has never forced a relationship between her and Barry, never even had a conversation about it with either until they were 25 and required his advice?

Edited April 1, 2016 by driedfruit

[Grace19]

I've comes to accept that people will want different things in fandom so it dosen't bother me when they don't ship what I ship. That iris and barry grew up together is not a problem to me, mainly because of two things; one, they were already friends before they moved in together. At the crime scene of nora allen's murder, Joe said that he knew the family " my kid is friends with their kid". That means that both families were already connected. So what happened later dose not change how they percieved each other before, iris is not magically going to turn into barry's sister and not the girl he had a crush on. Two, candice and grant have romantic and friendship chemistry which made it easy to see them as romantically viable and not as siblings, even with joe as a father figure to barry. I don't have any problem with what iris said in the first episode, the way i understood it is that its complicated, to them they are not brother and sister, to anyone looking at them without having all the facts it appears like that. Thats why eddie knew they weren't and patty not being there in season one assumed it was. I think the writers may have fun with it when they get together, it might even be funny and entertaining. Relationships like this exist in real life and it dosen't make people like that bad. There's always going to be a reason to like or dislike a pairing, if its not this it will be, they don't have any chemistry, they are more like friends etc. They are all the same, so i just enjoy what i like, and i believe that anyone that dosen't ship them also have the right not to, that they are still watching shows that there are other parts they enjoy, so everybody wins.

[johntfs]

Iris and Barry are also not related, either in real life or on the show. They are not adopted or foster siblings either. They simply grew up together past a certain age. The race thing should be a dead giveaway from them being related, I'd hope, lol. Also Barry had feelings for Iris before he moved in with them... he never saw her as a sister. I do wish the writers had never had Iris mention the "kinda like brother and sister" line - it was terrible and stupid. Almost wonder if the writers unintentionally self-sabotaged it for "reasons" that I'd illuminate in the lightning rod thread if I wasn't so sick of this same discussion, lol.

And I disagree. I think you DO have strong feelings about the romances on this show, as evidenced by your comments.

Off-topic: Are you still watching Sleepy Hollow since Season 2 when they killed off Katrina? You seem to have disappeared on the SH boards since then... did Katrina being killed off kill your enjoyment of the show? PM me if you want.

True that neither characters or actors are genetically related.  Barry wasn't adopted by Joe, but Barry and Iris would be foster siblings.  Otherwise Joe wouldn't have been recognized as Barry's legal guardian and Barry would not have been living in his house.  So, Barry and Iris were foster siblings.  That said, it's not a deal-breaker if the show committed to them being in a romantic relationship the way, say, Arrow committed to Felicity and Oliver.  That hasn't happened yet.  So, until it does, I'm okay with and without Barry/Iris.

 

Meanwhile, you are free to have whatever opinions you wish about my feelings.

 

As for Sleepy Hollow, I work weird hours and there's only so much TV time I have.  One reason I didn't stick with Sleep Hollow is that I got into Arrow, The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow.  Another reason I stopped watching and hanging around those boards was the constant, toxic barrage of negativity.  It was like being around cobras with Ebola and it helped kill my interest in the show.

[phoenics]

True that neither characters or actors are genetically related.  Barry wasn't adopted by Joe, but Barry and Iris would be foster siblings.  Otherwise Joe wouldn't have been recognized as Barry's legal guardian and Barry would not have been living in his house.  So, Barry and Iris were foster siblings.

I guess I could write out how I disagree, etc, but this topic has been discussed to death already in this thread from the beginning, so you could go back and read this entire thread for those details if you'd like. Then we can be more efficient instead of rehashing the topic - unless you have a new viewpoint to add that hasn't already been addressed?

As for Sleepy Hollow, I work weird hours and there's only so much TV time I have.  One reason I didn't stick with Sleep Hollow is that I got into Arrow, The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow.  Another reason I stopped watching and hanging around those boards was the constant, toxic barrage of negativity.

Interesting - that's how I feel when I see Iris hatred that seems unfounded in show canon, or when Iris is bashed for things others are praised for. Thank goodness for the lightning rod thread! That was a lifesaver with SH too, btw. It's nice when we're allowed to talk about societal factors and how they play into fandoms in very real and tangible ways. That's really appreciated with this show - especially given some of the weird choices that they've made with Barry and Iris - like pretending S1 didn't really happen. Or worse, the frustration of seeing the women characters ignored unless they're "coupled up" with a male on the show.

[johntfs]

I guess I could write out how I disagree, etc, but this topic has been discussed to death already in this thread from the beginning, so you could go back and read this entire thread for those details if you'd like. Then we can be more efficient instead of rehashing the topic - unless you have a new viewpoint to add that hasn't already been addressed?

Interesting - that's how I feel when I see Iris hatred that seems unfounded in show canon, or when Iris is bashed for things others are praised for. Thank goodness for the lightning rod thread! That was a lifesaver with SH too, btw. It's nice when we're allowed to talk about societal factors and how they play into fandoms in very real and tangible ways. That's really appreciated with this show - especially given some of the weird choices that they've made with Barry and Iris - like pretending S1 didn't really happen. Or worse, the frustration of seeing the women characters ignored unless they're "coupled up" with a male on the show.

 

As far as relationships go, I kind of 'ship Barry and Kara from Supergirl.  For Iris, I'd like to see her dig into the journalism thing a bit more and become a proto Lois Lane.  If Iris ends up being with Barry, cool. I'd prefer her to be her own character first.

[scarynikki12]

Dropping by to remind everyone to stop beating the poor dead horses.  They've been through enough.  Rather than state the same point over and over, change the subject and let the horses rest in peace. 

 

In the meantime, enjoy some cuteness.

 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Only on a CW-ran show could a big debate be sparked off about what is arguably the most recognized, solid, and sustained canon pairing in all of comic book-dom..... and they're not even together yet [which that fact, in and of itself, is a vast majority of the problem].

Edited April 2, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[zannej]

Here's something I can't remember whether or not I brought up or not:

What if Iris was Eobard's ancestor too?

 

We know that Eobard didn't originally know from what time the Flash originated-- suggesting that records were lost or not kept that would reveal all of that info. Eddie was all-but-forgotten by history and sometimes the genealogy records are not very clear.

 

So, what if Iris and Eddie did get married and have a child or children but Eobard didn't know it? What if they split up at some point and Eddie remarried. Or if Eddie died after the child/children was/were born?

 

After Eddie, Iris could have married Barry and had children with him, but kept the Thawne surname for children from Eddie.

 

Reasons why she could be:

* She seemed very close with Eddie and wanted to be with him even after finding out she was destined to marry Barry some day.

* There was time for her to have a kid or two with Eddie prior to the date on the newspaper from the future

* Not all records would have survived-- especially if the attacks from Vandal Savage occurred when Eobard was a teenager

* Even though Eddie and Iris were getting serious, it did not seem to jeopardize Eobard's existence

* It is possible for Eddie to have had a kid with Iris, split up, and remarried and raised the kid with his second wife and it might not have shown in the history records that the second wife was not the mother of the child.

 

Reasons to suggest she wouldn't be:

* Originally she might never have hooked up with Eddie if Eobard hadn't bumped up the timeline on the particle accelerator

* Eobard interrupted Eddie's proposal attempt and did his best to deter Eddie from pursuing Iris by telling him he wasn't getting the girl and showing him the newspaper that had Iris married to Barry.

* Even if some records were destroyed, Eobard might still have known who Eddie married to spawn the family line

 

She's probably not, but it still would have been interesting if that turned out to be the case.

[blugirlami21]

I don't know, your theory sounds pretty farfetched imo. If I'm remembering correctly Eobard was very certain that Iris was not his ancestor which is why he tried to break them up. Ironically he was afraid Eddie would alter the timeline by marrying the wrong person.

I don't think Iris and Eddie would have even been a thing had Eobard hadn't changed Barry's past. I'm fairly certain Barry would have started dating Iris in high school.

Edited April 8, 2016 by blugirlami21

[driedfruit]

Eobard was about to kill Iris when he snatched Eddie, I don't think he'd take that risk unless he knew exactly who his ancestor was. I don't buy that he knew about Eddie but didn't know who his wife was. It's too far fetched to imagine records from the 21st century would get lost in the face of futuristic tech lol

 

I can't see Iris as the type to want a large family either. I'd think she'd cap it at one kid, unless she ends up with twins. ;)

[zannej]

Eobard was about to kill Iris when he snatched Eddie, I don't think he'd take that risk unless he knew exactly who his ancestor was. I don't buy that he knew about Eddie but didn't know who his wife was. It's too far fetched to imagine records from the 21st century would get lost in the face of futuristic tech lol

 

I can't see Iris as the type to want a large family either. I'd think she'd cap it at one kid, unless she ends up with twins. ;)

It was more of a lark than anything else-- but man, it would have sucked for Eobard if Iris HAD been his ancestor and he offed her.

 

If the events from Legends of Tomorrow played out, then Vandal Savage would have been destroying things left and right while Eobard was a young teenager, so some things could have been damaged. And I know firsthand how easy it is for computer records to be lost or messed up. The military completely lost all of my medical records and had my mother listed as my father's daughter and had my father listed as being married to himself because someone failed at data entry. Some of the places that held the documents burned down and I imagine there are sometimes hard drive failures. It's not completely implausible for certain records to have been lost.

 

That said, I do think it is likely that Eobard really didn't want Eddie and Iris to be together, but he never really said or did too much about it. In retrospect, I wish we'd gotten to see him interact with Iris a bit more.

[driedfruit]

It was more of a lark than anything else-- but man, it would have sucked for Eobard if Iris HAD been his ancestor and he offed her.

 

If the events from Legends of Tomorrow played out, then Vandal Savage would have been destroying things left and right while Eobard was a young teenager, so some things could have been damaged. And I know firsthand how easy it is for computer records to be lost or messed up. The military completely lost all of my medical records and had my mother listed as my father's daughter and had my father listed as being married to himself because someone failed at data entry. Some of the places that held the documents burned down and I imagine there are sometimes hard drive failures. It's not completely implausible for certain records to have been lost.

 

That said, I do think it is likely that Eobard really didn't want Eddie and Iris to be together, but he never really said or did too much about it. In retrospect, I wish we'd gotten to see him interact with Iris a bit more.

 

It's not only medical records though. Iris is a well known reporter since she's the Flash girl so she would be all over social media. If she married Eddie there would be pictures and mentions of it all over the place. Too widespread to be wiped. If there's enough information left for Eobard to track down Barry Allen's childhood home and know which Thawne is his ancestor, it's not believable that he wouldn't know the more famous Iris West was his ancestor. 

 

Eobard was meticulous in his plans and I would consider it out of character to try to kill a woman his ancestor is in love with unless he knows for sure she's not his ancestor.

[Oscirus]

When did Joe arrange for Barry's parents to be killed so that Barry could come live with them? That's a lot of orchestrating. Joe seemed to have some knowledge of who Barry was which to me seems that Barry was prob one of Iris' friends from school.

It's a small town and Joe's a cop. Maybe he was the best foster choice for a child who's mother had just been murdered.

 

Now you're just purposely misunderstanding my quote. I said nothing about his murdering Barry's parents.

As for it being a small town, there were clearly other options to adopt him.

 

Your perception on their upbringing is far squickier than anything else I've ever seen.

 

Once again, reading things in my quotes that aren't there. I'm not the one ignoring red flags to serve some epic romance.

 

like any rational parent,he would know that he doesn't have to chain his daughter in the dungeon to stop her from engaging in sexual activity the moment she's alone with a boy

 

 

I'm guessing all those parents who don't allow their tee children to have sleepovers with kids of the opposite sex are irrational.

 

And how has Joe child brided Iris when he has never forced a relationship between her and Barry, never even had a conversation about it with either until they were 25 and required his advice?

 

 

So now we're just going to pretend the first season didn't happen? I'm pretty sure that the only reason that Joe rejected Eddie getting married to Iris was because Eddie wasn't Barry and I'm also pretty sure that Iris didn't ask for Joe's assistance at that juncture.

 

But moving away from Joe's piss poor parenting, the fact is that the only obstacle to this romance has been Iris. She's known how he's felt for a while now and other then the time that she thought she was going to die, she's done nothing about it. Hell, we can't even say that she's jealous of Barry around other girls anymore since she bent over backwards trying to save his last relationship with Patty.

If the only plus for a relationship is the universe wants them together or lol comic book, then that's not a very good reason.

 

[Grace19]

Thats why i am against the idea of "epic" romance. That iris didnt love barry that way before, dosen't mean she wouldn't in the future. We've already been shown she have feelings for him, we dont know how much because of her lack of pov, but they are there. IMHO thats what any romance needs to grow. Even a little spark can start a wildfire.

[Grace19]

I'm actually grateful that barry telling her about earth2 didnt spark her interest, that would be bad, and i could see people using it to discredit westallen. I hate to say it, but i now appreciate why scott was introduced, i just wish scott wasnt her boss. With iris dating scott right after barry told her about earth2 shows that is not going to motivate how iris feels about barry. This is in line with her choosing eddie even after she heard about being married to barry in the future. So any romance iris might find in the future with barry is not going to be because of earth2 or the future, but purely because she fell inlove with barry. I believe thats what the writers are showing.

[blugirlami21]

 

Still problematic. Joe still arranged for a kid who had a crush on his daughter to  have a permanent sleep over with her and since last season basically confirms that he's apparently a west-allen shipper, he basically child brided his daughter which is not charming at all.

 

This is what you wrote.  You said that Joe arranged for Barry to have a permanent sleepover with the object of his affection.  How would that be in Joe's power to grant?  You also mention Iris being child brided which never has good connotations.  If I misunderstood what you wrote I apologize.  We can agree to disagree on Joe's parenting or lack thereof. 

 

As for Iris and Barry's relationship or lack thereof this season. I blame the writers.  I kind of feel like their relationship got a reset this season.  They acted like there wasn't a love confession or any jealousy on both their parts any time they tried dating other people.  Its like they got downgraded to strangers.

 

I don't have anything invested in the comic versions of Barry and Iris being together.  I like them together based on what I saw in the first season and the little we got here and there in season two.  I think at the end of the day Iris and Barry want the other to be happy.  Barry seemed happy with Patty, I think she was just trying to encourage Barry to do what made him happy.  Joe encouraged it as well.

[statsgirl]

I agree that having Barry and Iris be raised in the same household might have been a misstep -- or at least a strange place for them to start; especially since the show repeatedly emphasizes the father-son relationship between Joe and Barry.  I do think there would be feelings of kinship. However, I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle to a romance between them.  (Although, it's going to be super awkward with Joe, Barry, and Iris all living in the same place if they really go ahead with Barry/Iris as a couple.)

I don't see it as an insurmountable obstacle either.

 

The insurmountable obstacle for me is the fact that Iris treated Barry like a somewhat slow younger brother all through season 1 (including when Barry confessed his feelings for her just as she was about to move in with Eddie), while not only showing that she loved Eddie but also having an adult relationship with him, unlike any she's had with Barry.  Iris' relationship with Eddie is miles better as a love relationship than I've ever seen her with Barry.  Iris and Barry have a great sibling relationship but no amount of love confessions (when she's finally with someone else? really?) is going to change that.

 

I don't care about comic canon or on how many Earths Barry gets together with Iris (I really liked the E2 version), on Earth1, Barry is always going to take second place for Iris in my mind.  If Eddie hadn't died, Iris would have been with him.

 

And also the way Barry handled his relationship with Patty, repeatedly lying to her when she could have help him, shows me that he's still not at the stage of having an adult relationship.  Yes, it was meant to be temporary but it should have ended for a good reason, not because of Barry's immaturity.

Edited April 5, 2016 by statsgirl

[phoenics]

Is it wrong to want a couple together largely because you're a fan of the comic canon? It feels like people look down on folks for that.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Is it wrong to want a couple together largely because you're a fan of the comic canon? It feels like people look down on folks for that.

 

I don't mean to generalize parts of the 'fandom', but IKR?  Some people's argument is always "well, (this show) isn't the comics".  Yes, fine, & everyone knows that... but then why call it The Flash, (or Arrow), if you aren't going to follow the comics other than naming characters?? 

 

Why bother having comic-based LI characters on the shows if you aren't going to follow that route, or if do, will only be a token attempt, then abandon it altogether the rest of the way because 'reasons'? 

 

But I guess that's my fault for expecting at least a little bit of purity to be used in shows based off comics.

[phoenics]

I don't care about comic canon or on how many Earths Barry gets together with Iris (I really liked the E2 version), on Earth1, Barry is always going to take second place for Iris in my mind.  If Eddie hadn't died, Iris would have been with him.

I do think this is easily explained. Sure, if Eddie hadn't died, Iris would have been with him - but for how long? We know she had feelings for Barry so eventually those would have come to the fore. And she wouldn't remove Barry from her life and I think Eddie would have gotten to the point where he would have demanded she do so and she wouldn't have. Then she probably would finally sit down to analyze her feelings and realize why.

Plus I think Joe is right about her - she would have been with Eddie - but more out of default because she happened to end up in a relationship with him FIRST. She's loyal to a fault so she sticks with the guy she's chosen. I saw her being with Eddie at the end out of obligation and her trying to have agency by making the opposite choice than the "destiny" presented to her. That's not making Barry the second choice - that's making Eddie her "escape" choice.

It's like the woman who marries the first guy she's with just to get out of her father's house.

So I don't see that as insurmountable at all - I don't even see it as an obstacle. Hopefully the writers will address it one day on the show so we can really see what Iris is/was thinking.

[blugirlami21]

I agree with you phoenics. Towards the end I think the more Iris was told what she felt by Joe, Barry and Eddie the more she dug her heels in.

I too don't think she would have been with Eddie for very long. Eddie took her back but he knew like everyone else knew. Iris loved Barry as more than a friend.

Same thing happened when Barry tried to recreate her confession from the erased day. She clearly hates being told what to feel or who to be with.

[phoenics]

I guess there's agency in that, lol.

[bettername2come]

I agree with you phoenics. Towards the end I think the more Iris was told what she felt by Joe, Barry and Eddie the more she dug her heels in.

I too don't think she would have been with Eddie for very long. Eddie took her back but he knew like everyone else knew. Iris loved Barry as more than a friend.

Same thing happened when Barry tried to recreate her confession from the erased day. She clearly hates being told what to feel or who to be with.

I agree. I think a big part of it was also that at this point, she can't just date Barry and see how it goes. If she admits to having feelings for Barry, she's giving into destiny and making that lifetime commitment, and she's just not ready for that. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by bettername2come

[blugirlami21]

You know, I don't think we've seen anything from Barry or Iris to indicate what their feelings for each other are. Unfortunately if I came into the show from the second season, I would have no idea that Barry has been in love with Iris for years or that Iris has some romantic feelings for Barry.

There's just been so much unnecessay misdirection with Batty and now with Iris' boss. I'm hoping they will refocus on their relationship, hopefully before the end of the season.

Edited April 8, 2016 by blugirlami21

[Ruby25]

Given their rare status as the only (?) historically solid married couple in the DC universe (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I don't think so), I would definitely think the creators would want to portray that ON the show.

 

I don't just mean have them get married in the series finale, but give us them as an actual married couple for the majority of the run. I'd really like to see that. Once they get together it ought to be permanent, imo. They can separate them through means other than a break-up if they feel like they have to at some point, but it wouldn't be true to the spirit of the comics to have them be an on/off couple or anything.

[Oscirus]

Is it wrong to want a couple together largely because you're a fan of the comic canon? It feels like people look down on folks for that.

 

Nothing wrong with it. The problem is when writers start using canon as crutch to not bother building a proper romantic story.

 

Plus I think Joe is right about her - she would have been with Eddie - but more out of default because she happened to end up in a relationship with him FIRST. She's loyal to a fault so she sticks with the guy she's chosen. I saw her being with Eddie at the end out of obligation and her trying to have agency by making the opposite choice than the "destiny" presented to her. That's not making Barry the second choice - that's making Eddie her "escape" choice.

 

 

I don't think Joe was right at all. Let's keep in mind that this is her first relationship.  She's pretty much learning as she goes along. Maybe she loves Barry more or maybe he's just the safe choice because he's always around her, her father approves, etc. By  repeatedly having other people make relationship choices for her, this show fails to convey any depth in the relationship and fails to acknowledge that the final choice should be up to her. Hence, we  never get a real answer as to who she really loves because other people/circumstances are dictating her feelings.

 

Once they get together it ought to be permanent, imo. They can separate them through means other than a break-up if they feel like they have to at some point, but it wouldn't be true to the spirit of the comics to have them be an on/off couple or anything

 

 

I agree with this. The comic has established plenty of ways to separate them as a married couple without breaking them up. My only requirement is that Iris gets her own support system independent of Barry once they get married.

[Actionmage]

Given their rare status as the only (?) historically solid married couple in the DC universe

 

I believe Ralph and Sue Dibny are also, usually shown to be happily married. (Identity Crisis is an Elseworlds story, in my headcannon.)

[Whodunnit]

Barry may have been in love with Iris since they were 11, but I've never seen any indication that it was the same for her. They were foster siblings--even if she has started to develop new romantic feelings for him--it makes sense that she would struggle with still seeing him the old way, for the same reason that Barry still struggled with seeing Eobard (the killer) and not seeing him as Harrison Wells (Mentor and Friend).

Also, 11 is pretty young. Speaking from experience about when someone moves in with your family, yes you are aware that biologically they are not your sibling, but it's easy to view someone who has been added to your family then as sort of a sibling with sibling type feelings.

Do I think Iris can get past this? Yes, but I kind of need to see some indication of there being romantic feelings (and conflicted feelings) towards Barry that Iris actually remembers having (so the day that got erased doesn't count because there was no emotional fallout for her, just for Barry). I adore Westallen from earth-2. I'm sure the canon couple who were each other's first and only love is adorable too. Neither couple is Earth-1's Barry and Iris though; they have more to work through.

I don't an issue with her having been in love with Eddie: He was sweet and many people have first loves.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Whodunnit

[Ruby25]

Do you think E2 WestAllen were each other's firsts?

[Whodunnit]

Yeah, I think that they went a little closer to canon there.

[bettername2come]

Something just popped into my head. I love Westallen. I'm all for the couple. I don't think they're too incestuous. I think Iris has been showing interest in Barry since Earth-2. There's just one little thing that's making me say not yet.

 

ONE OF THEM HAS TO MOVE OUT OF THAT FREAKING HOUSE! Dating someone you grew up with and are very close to, fine. Dating that person while you both live at home with the father figure who raised you both together and obviously ships it...that's kind of weird.

[Ruby25]

Something just popped into my head. I love Westallen. I'm all for the couple. I don't think they're too incestuous. I think Iris has been showing interest in Barry since Earth-2. There's just one little thing that's making me say not yet.

 

ONE OF THEM HAS TO MOVE OUT OF THAT FREAKING HOUSE! Dating someone you grew up with and are very close to, fine. Dating that person while you both live at home with the father figure who raised you both together and obviously ships it...that's kind of weird.

Yeah, I sort of think when they get together that the show will have them move out pretty quickly into their own place. Right? I mean, they hopefully will notice the weirdness there.

 

It's strange though, because if they were married and lived at home, I don't think it'd be as weird, because it'd be like a married couple living at home with their parents. But for them to start something up while both living at home with Joe seems...inappropriate.

 

The thing is though, that I think the show really loves the West house setting, since it's basically the second most used one next to Star Labs. I guess they could still do that, just have Barry and Iris visit all the time.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Ruby25

[Oscirus]

Yea, I agree. The biggest problem with the Iris-Barry relationship is the lack of separation ( which is amazing when you see how little time they spend on Iris).  The producers really need to take some money out of the special effects budget and dole out the money for another setting.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I just hope the producers and writers know that they can't keep dragging the WA out indefinitely - if they mean for it to happen and be somewhere in the general vicinity of the comic book lore.  Resentment will build up - or continue building - in parts of the fanbase and be seen as them creating drama "just because they can".

 

I've never seen B/I as "incestuous", but I do agree that at least one of them has to move out of the house, though.  It would be creepy to watch.  In my mind's eye, I see Barry/Iris sitting on the couch cuddling and kissing, etc, and Joe is sitting off to the side, gazing at them with heart's in his eyes and using a knife to carve "Barry <3 Iris" into the wooden surface of the dining room table.  Don't misunderstand, I'm all for him shipping them, but with them in an actual relationship [with all the sights & sounds that come with it] and living under the same roof as dad/father-figure?  Disturbing thoughts.

[catrice2]

I thought Barry did have his own place? i must have missed when he moved home.  If he and Patty were intimate, were they at her place? 

[Trini]

Barry moved back in right after Iris moved out in the second half of Season 1. Apparently, Iris moved back in by the time Season 2 started, but it hasn't been specifically mentioned.

 

Which reminds me that I would've liked to see Iris dealing with cleaning out Eddie's apartment. Even if they didn't want to show us that, she could have at least talked to another person about it. ::grumble::

[SevenStars]

Barry moved back in right after Iris moved out in the second half of Season 1. Apparently, Iris moved back in by the time Season 2 started, but it hasn't been specifically mentioned.

Which reminds me that I would've liked to see Iris dealing with cleaning out Eddie's apartment. Even if they didn't want to show us that, she could have at least talked to another person about it. ::grumble::

Also, Did we ever hear about how the explained Eddie's death to people?

[Oscirus]

Since they acknowledge metas now, I assume they say that reverse flash killed him.