Spoilers With Speculation

[Bobcatkitten]

Jensen said Dean is sitting by himself in the woods weeping. I only see that much emotion for a few people - including Mary, Jody, Jack, Cas or Sam. 

[Aeryn13]

It`s probably something like: they are building a pyre, hence the woods, and Dean is in one area, gathering some wood so they have that scene of him breaking down for a bit. In actuality of the context Sam and Jack? aren`t far away (out of earshot though) but are of course not present for filming. 

That still fits with Jensen`s tongue-in-cheek "couldn`t it have been done in the car?" because sure, you could just as easily come up with a scenario where the others are already out of the car or not yet in it and Dean breaks down there. Lots of shows do scenes exactly like this.   

It`s likely only be a very short bit where at the end Dean takes a deep breath and rejoins the others, pretending nothing happened. Those are usually the "just for the audience" moments. 

[S Cook Productions]

58 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Jensen said Dean is sitting by himself in the woods weeping. I only see that much emotion for a few people - including Mary, Jody, Jack, Cas or Sam. 

It’s times like this that I miss the spoiler sheet. Ok let’s try to break this down, because I agree with you (although I think Claire and Donna could be added to that list). Maybe SueB can help- she has a knack for this. 

Mary- we don’t think it’s her because she’s in 20, right? 

I think either Jody or Donna are possibilities. Do we know have either of them been filming?

I think Jack is a definite possibility. Maybe somehow related to “killing the thing you love to kill the thing you hate” somehow. 

Ok so Cas- I do think this is a death that would affect Dean second to Sam, we’ve seen this. It’s certainly something he could cry about. However, I don’t think it’s Cas because they just killed him off for drama a couple of seasons ago, plus I think the Empty threat will be his big storyline next season, maybe (I hope).  Also, let’s do the math here- Misha is contracted for up to 15 episodes a season, but he usually does 14. So, how many has he done this year? We know he’s in ep 17...so will he be in 18, 19, or 20? He’s usually in the finale, so he might not even be in 18 and 19, right? Anyway, I lost count of how many he’s done this year because I used to rely on the spoiler sheet. 

Sam is always a possibility, but it doesn’t gel with what Jensen said. 

Claire could be likely, but I would think/hope that death would affect Cas just as much, and there’s no evidence of this.

So I guess I’m now thinking somehow Mary (and she’s in 20 for flashbacks), or Donna or Jody, or Jack. 

[Casseiopeia]

I'm putting this here because it looks like we are going back to heaven...maybe to rescue the snake?

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Jensen said Dean is sitting by himself in the woods weeping. I only see that much emotion for a few people - including Mary, Jody, Jack, Cas or Sam. 

Is it too much to hope he's weeping for... himself? That it's not directly related to whatever 'death' is coming up, but him trying to cope with his own trauma? A pipe dream, I know. 

Maybe somebody scratched the Impala.  

[ILoveReading]

So if that pic was taken yesterday that means there is confirmation that Sam Smith, Alex, Mark P, Misha and Jared all filmed yesterday.   I feel like I'm missing someone but that was all I remember seeing. 

I have a new theory.  The brothers needs to take Jack to Heaven to save it and stop Lucifer.  The death at the end of episode 19  isn't really a death but one of the brother's "killing" themselves to go Heaven to try and rescue Jack to stop Lucifer.  The other will need to stand guard because for ....reasons they can't do this together.

There will be a Trial and Error speeches.  Dean will say it should be him because he doesn't mean anything.  Sam will say it should be him because he wants to live and he has to atone.  Sam kills himself.  (The show fails to see the irony in this).

Sam rallies all the remaining angels, and saves Jack, and Heaven and defeats Lucifer (temporarily because I think we're stuck with him until the show ends) Dean sits alone in the woods and weeps because be feels like a failure.

Edited March 16, 2019 by ILoveReading

[S Cook Productions]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So if that pic was taken yesterday that means there is confirmation that Sam Smith, Alex, Mark P, Misha and Jared all filmed yesterday.   I feel like I'm missing someone but that was all I remember seeing. 

I have a new theory.  The brothers needs to take Jack to Heaven to save it and stop Lucifer.  The death at the end of episode 19  isn't really a death but one of the brother's "killing" themselves to go Heaven to try and rescue Jack to stop Lucifer.  The other will need to stand guard because for ....reasons they can' do this together.

There will be a Trial and Error speeches.  Dean will say it should be him because he doesn't mean anything.  Sam will say it should be him because he wants to live and he has to atone.  Sam kills himself.  (The show fails to see the irony in this).

Sam rallies all the remaining angels, and saves Jack, and Heaven and defeats Lucifer (temporarily because I think we're stuck with him until the show ends) Dean sits alone in the woods and weeps because be feels like a failure.

How do you know Misha shot yesterday? I only see Sam, Alex, and Mark P chairs...and now Jared. 

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

How do you know Misha shot yesterday? I only see Sam, Alex, and Mark P chairs...and now Jared.  

From Jim Michael's tweet.  It appears Misha shot yesterday.

[PeterKahlke]

Judging by the conversations Jack's had with Cas and others, his story going forward seems to be about far he'll go to protect the ones he loves. His (near) soullessness won't make him "go dark side", but rather make him impervious to the morality of his actions.

Theory: Mary dies, Jack tries to resurrects her and fails, driving him towards anger/frustration. Applying the WWWD advice, he does something monumentally stupid to bring her back. He'll believe the only way to protect/bring back the people he loves is to get more powerful. As the snake in the story kept consuming eggs until it killed him, Jack will look for more and more archangel grace to consume, regardless of the consequences. He either opens the cage to get Michael's grace (the "old fan favorite") or teams up with Nick to bring back Lucifer somehow, to get back his original grace - or both.

Which of course all ends well.

[Bobcatkitten]

13 minutes ago, PeterKahlke said:

Judging by the conversations Jack's had with Cas and others, his story going forward seems to be about far he'll go to protect the ones he loves. His (near) soullessness won't make him "go dark side", but rather make him impervious to the morality of his actions.

Theory: Mary dies, Jack tries to resurrects her and fails, driving him towards anger/frustration. Applying the WWWD advice, he does something monumentally stupid to bring her back. He'll believe the only way to protect/bring back the people he loves is to get more powerful. As the snake in the story kept consuming eggs until it killed him, Jack will look for more and more archangel grace to consume, regardless of the consequences. He either opens the cage to get Michael's grace (the "old fan favorite") or teams up with Nick to bring back Lucifer somehow, to get back his original grace - or both.

Which of course all ends well.

This would be off - have Jack and Mary even had a scene together this season? 

[PeterKahlke]

11 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

This would be off - have Jack and Mary even had a scene together this season? 

Not that I recall, but last season spent a lot of time developing their relationship. Mary may have faded into the background since, but she was a mother figure and only friend to Jack when he was fighting the war in apocalypse world. She's in a few consecutive episodes later this season (which in itself is a bad sign - look what happened to Charlie), so that would be enough to remind viewers of their bond.

[Aeryn13]

The press release for episode 17 says that Mary is worried about Nougat`s well-being, indicating they have scene(s) together. 

[ILoveReading]

Have we had the season finale title yet?

[SueB]

51 minutes ago, PeterKahlke said:

Judging by the conversations Jack's had with Cas and others, his story going forward seems to be about far he'll go to protect the ones he loves. His (near) soullessness won't make him "go dark side", but rather make him impervious to the morality of his actions.

Theory: Mary dies, Jack tries to resurrects her and fails, driving him towards anger/frustration. Applying the WWWD advice, he does something monumentally stupid to bring her back. He'll believe the only way to protect/bring back the people he loves is to get more powerful. As the snake in the story kept consuming eggs until it killed him, Jack will look for more and more archangel grace to consume, regardless of the consequences. He either opens the cage to get Michael's grace (the "old fan favorite") or teams up with Nick to bring back Lucifer somehow, to get back his original grace - or both.

Which of course all ends well.

Bold=Winchester Axiom

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Have we had the season finale title yet?

Not yet. I hope Jensen isn`t missing a lot of shooting from the Finale of all things. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Not yet. I hope Jensen isn`t missing a lot of shooting from the Finale of all things. 

Indications are that he is off Monday because its Danneel's birthday and they are doing that Birthday project charity.   The way they worded the post it sounded like Jensen would be there.

I have no idea if he missed yesterday but he was the only one not accounted for.

[Aeryn13]

As they don`t have second unit shooting really, he probably wasn`t. That would be two days already. Disappointing.

[SueB]

First, just because Sam Smith POSTED that picture on instagram yesterday does NOT mean that she took the picture yesterday.  She was advertising for an upcoming activity with she and Pellegrino.

We also have Jim Michael's Tweet:

Which could also have been taken previously, but I'm inclined to think it was Friday because Jim's not that clever.  OTOH ... my first thought?  Those chairs don't look ready to use.  Is he OFFERING the chair to take as a parting gift?  If not...then Misha, Alex & Jared filming ... and heaven involved ... could be MANY variants.  Here's some ideas:
- If Pellegrino/Smith wrapped in 14.19 (my instinct), then 14.20 is fallout
- If Sam, Cas & Jack are in Heaven and Dean is alone on earth -- that might account for Dean alone and Sam filming in Heaven.  OTOH, Jensen took a picture from the 'throne' at Christmas time last 2017 (I think) -- so it could be that Sam is NOT in heaven but Cas & Jack are. 
- Jack walking forward, with Dean next to him and Sam behind ... in EP14.19.  And Jack being encouraged to do something .... what if Jack is being encouraged to go to Heaven to rescue someone?  Before Kelly Kline couldn't go into Heaven 'alive' because it would kill her -- but they wanted to take Jack last year and were not worried about him dying.  Also... Cas said all the gates to heaven were open -- does this mean that the Emplty blew up Metatron's spell and you don't have to go thru the sandbox?  

[lmdreamer]

Did the boys ever figure out how to kill or slow down a nephillum in case jack goes rogue? They are hunters you would think someone would have kept looking even though jack is good at least on the down low.

[ILoveReading]

Based on the date, the old friend that Sam and Dean try to help in episode 17 is Donatello. 

[SueB]

I don't actually recall her having said that -- so I'm putting it in spoilers in case it's a line from a future episode.

[SueB]

couple pictures of a shaman

[SueB]

Sneak peek:

[SueB]

Misha's shooting in the finale -- it's a cemetary (duh) per YVR Shoots Twitter

[nightwing877]

Sam Smith (Mary) is in the finale, now of course if she was dead already, she'd be back as a corpse or ghost. So I wonder who is dying. Jack? Donna? Claire? (off-screen) 

Edited March 21, 2019 by nightwing877

[ILoveReading]

I wish I had software to enlarge the photo and enhance the script she has lying there.

[MysteryGuest]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:13 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe somebody scratched the Impala. 

Ok, this literally made me choke on my iced tea.  Too funny!

I'm actually tired of playing the "who will die" game with this show.  The people you want to die never do, so I'm going to be pissed if they kill off someone that I actually like.  I know Claire annoys people, but I would still hate for her to be killed.  Definitely don't want it to be Jody or Donna.  They're going to have to do something with a powered-up Jack, but he's pretty popular, so I can't seem them killing him off, unless Alex wants to leave to do something else.  

I'm not going to worry about Dean, Sam or Cas, because if one of them dies, it won't be permanent.  None of them are going anywhere until the show ends.  There's always Rowena.  Or maybe not-Bobby bites it again.  

They will need to address the Heaven issue sooner or later, so having Jack work on fixing things up there might work.  

[SueB]

I don't think any of Jodi's crew is going to die.  There's no buildup.  Maybe Dean traps Jack in his Malak box because Jack is turning dangerous.  And they bury him.  That's not a good thing for the mind (for Jack).  But I could see that.

[SueB]

4.18 ABSENCE

THE STATE OF BEING AWAY– Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) continue to worry about the condition of Jack’s (Alexander Calvert) soul. The episode was directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado and written by Robert Berens.(#1418). Original Airdate 4/11/2019.

From Ksite

[Lemuria]

SPN’s PR department is amazing...ly bad. The official description of 4.18 certainly ramps up my enthusiasm. For watching pretty much anything else. 

[SueB]

Quote

Episode 14x16 
Title: Don’t Go In The Woods
Written by: Davy Perez and Nick Vaught
Director:  John Fitzpatrick
Filming Dates:  January 17 - January 28 (shot out of order)
Airdate: March 21
Castiel? No. Jack? Yes.
Guest stars:
Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):
To be directed by long-time editor John Fitzpatrick 

From Jess' sheet

IMdB

Guest Cast:

Kimi Alexander...Sara

Alexander Calvert...Jack

Cory Gruter-Andrew...Eliot

Zenia Marshall...Stacy

Skylar Radzion...Max

Patrick Roccas...Deputy #2

The kids from "Lebanon" -- as we've seen in the photos. No idea who is playing the shaman.

[Res]

From "Peace of Mind" Thread (what a waste of a song on that one):

Quote

PAForrest

6 HOURS AGO

  6 HOURS AGO, ILOVEREADING SAID:

https://fangasmthebook.com/2019/03/21/supernatural-brings-some-laughs-with-peace-of-mind/

You know the writing is bad when Fangasm "I love everything" sees the same problem with the writing for Dean in this ep that a lot of us had.

That he was too jolly and cheerful and he should have been feeling guilt too,

Yeah, they don't normally find fault with the show ever, especially where it concerns Dean. So that is both surprising and really not as Bergamot so eloquently explained it:

  ON 3/17/2019 AT 9:22 PM, BERGAMOT SAID:

...It would have been perfectly fine with me if in the previous episode -- instead of Michael exiting Dean and then Jack burning off his soul to kill him -- if Michael had taken back control of Dean while he was unconscious, and then Jack burned off his soul to force him into the Ma'lak Box. I would prefer a hundred times more that Dean had been missing from this entire episode because he was in the box, than have him in the episode the way that he was. That would have been totally fine with me.

I knew that there would be excuses attempted on the basis that what we saw was Dean was just setting aside his own issues to take care of his family, but that excuse doesn't fly with me. For one thing, with the possible exception of one scene at the end, there was never any indication that Dean even had any issues of his own to be set aside. If you didn't know why Dean might be struggling with what happened with Michael, or to the AU hunters or Jack, you would not learn anything about it in this episode.

For another thing, the Dean we saw in this episode was not all that interested in helping his family deal with their issues, from what I could tell. He was interested in eating a huge sandwich and in getting a good night's rest. Cas was the one who said that he would go on the hunt to watch out for Sam, and Cas was the one who suggested that Dean should try to help Jack. Dean was so unenthusiastic about this idea that Cas got angry about it, scornfully adding that afterwards Dean could "sleep til the cows come home". Not exactly a picture of someone who is determined to help his family, if he has to be scorned into doing it.

And then after that, Dean spent the rest of the episode basically doing nothing but being stupidly afraid of the snake, a gag that was pointlessly carried on way too long. If the show had wanted us to see Dean repressing his own issues, we would have ...

READ MORE  

Lemuria said very much the same thing in one of the other threads, BvJ, I think. Bottom line, tv is a visual medium, and if you don't see it happening on screen - or if at the very least no one on screen references something or someone - then it didn't happen, or it's not happening. I very much thought, hey, if I was a newbie who happened to be flipping the channel and tuned into this episode, I would have come away assuming something bad happened the episode before that must have only had something to do with the characters of Sam and Jack, maybe Cas, and some chick named Rowena who isn't appearing in this episode for whatever reason. And that Dean guy wasn't even there and must only show up occasionally as comic relief.

Dean spending an episode - or at this point the rest of the season - in the Ma'lak Box would frankly have been pure brilliance by comparison, if for no other reason than it would have followed canon of only four freaking episodes before, and wouldn't have crapped all over not just Dean, but Billie as a character and her wonderful scene in Nihilism. I'm left not only baffled that Michael did nothing to Dean, but questioning whether Billie is a lying liar who lies, or who is simply the most moronic reaper in existence who clearly has no idea what the hell she's talking about. How did a reaper so stupid get the gig as Death? Is the cosmic bar really that low?

Short of shoving Dean in the Ma'lak Box, Dean should have spent this episode being pissed off - at Sam, at Cas, and even if not especially at Billie for telling him he had no options when obviously all he had to do was a whole lot of nothing and walk away fine and dandy to spend the rest of his days scarfing lunch meat.

I think you are right, PA, about Billie lying to Dean. She lied about who Michael was actually wearing in all the other books in order to get him to make the Ma'lak Box, knowing Dean would do it for himself. He would have found another way for any of the others but, for himself, he wouldn't have taken a chance. 

With the Box already built, they now have something to contain Jackeal! when he starts to emerge before he gets too powerful.

[BlueDiamond]

28 minutes ago, Res said:

I think you are right, PA, about Billie lying to Dean. She lied about who Michael was actually wearing in all the other books in order to get him to make the Ma'lak Box, knowing Dean would do it for himself. He would have found another way for any of the others but, for himself, he wouldn't have taken a chance. 

It doesn't make sense canon wise though. The books were supposed to be about how Dean could possibly die. According to Bille, they all were changed to two scenarios: one, Michael getting out, taking over Dean's body, killing him in the process and destroying the world. The second scenario was the box, again, connected to Dean in a sense that this is how he was supposed to die since the book is about his death. 

[ZennyKenny]

On 3/8/2019 at 9:11 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

:: small voice :: I love Metatron.

I thought he was an interesting villain. I found his story intriguing, especially his turn at being basically human where he learned what the stories he purported to love so much were really about and he could finally understand them beyond them having a "good plot" or interesting characters. And I loved him in "Don't Call Me Shurley."

I would entirely love to see Metatron back. :: ducks any flying rotten vegetables and makes a hasty retreat ::

I thought I was the only one! I actually loved Metatron, too.

[S Cook Productions]

1 hour ago, ZennyKenny said:

I thought I was the only one! I actually loved Metatron, too.

Me too, but in the same way that I love Naomi. They’re just slimy interesting villains. I mean I love to dislike them, I think? I pretty much love all eps that they’re in even though I physically yell at them while they’re on screen lol. 

[Res]

1 hour ago, BlueDiamond said:

It doesn't make sense canon wise though. The books were supposed to be about how Dean could possibly die. According to Bille, they all were changed to two scenarios: one, Michael getting out, taking over Dean's body, killing him in the process and destroying the world. The second scenario was the box, again, connected to Dean in a sense that this is how he was supposed to die since the book is about his death. 

That's kinda the point, though. Canon doesn't matter to any of the powers that be when it comes to their desires or whims regarding their pets.

[Casseiopeia]

So I'm guessing the "old friend" is going to be Chuck?

[S Cook Productions]

47 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

So I'm guessing the "old friend" is going to be Chuck?

Or Donatello if Nickifer thinks he can use him...

[Cambion]

Please let it be Nick.  Please let it be Nick. Please, oh please, oh please, please let it be Nick. Please let it be Nick.  Please let it be Nick. Please, oh please, oh please, please let it be Nick. Please let it be Nick.  Please let it be Nick. Please, oh please, oh please, please let it be Nick. Please let it be Nick.  Please let it be Nick. Please, oh please, oh please, please let it be Nick.

[Cambion]

On 3/20/2019 at 5:24 PM, SueB said:

Misha's shooting in the finale -- it's a cemetary (duh) per YVR Shoots Twitter

Wait, what?  How is this going to be epic?  The villain is gone.  Jack as a baddie is, frankly, laughable.  So, um, yeah.  

[SueB]

Explicating the promo shots

1) Something has happened to Donatello:

Note: You can see the arm has a white shirt peaking undre a suit.  

2) Dean and Mary appear to be checking it out

The car scene seems to be before they make it to the house.  Also this is the scene where Sam is also telling them to hurry back to the Bunker -- so Dean says they'll be 'fast'.  But I'm guessing they go ahead and do a bit of an investigation.
 

3) Nick and Dean have a confrontation (placement in episode is unclear)

Dean is asking what did you do and Nick is snarky about skipping small talk. Based on wallpaper, the scene of questioning takes place at the scene of ritual.
 

4) At some point (before or after Scene #3), Nick is being Nick.

This COULD be related to Sam on the ground or not

5) Sam wants Dean back at the bunker

6) THIS is a fascinating pair of images.

Same jacket, but I don't think the picture on the left is Jack -- looks like a younger version of him.  And the background is NOT Bunker. THIS is the biggest mystery for me in the promo. 
 

7) Sam has a head injury, Jack appears to be healing him

I don't know if he's dead (he is opening his eyes).  And that's Dean's ear.  It's outside.  Related to Nick?  Maybe/maybe not.

8 ) Disconnected from these events, Cas & Sister Jo meet

Why Cas thinks Sister Jo can help get a message to God is beyond me.  

Summary thoughts:
Looks like the last 4 are mytharc episodes.  They take a 1 week break, reshow "Lebabon" and then we are in the buildup to finale.

[SueB]

Thinking more ... that pic on the left looks like a young Sam from the Sully episode.  Thoughts?

[Jonesy]

11 hours ago, Cambion said:

Wait, what?  How is this going to be epic?  The villain is gone.  Jack as a baddie is, frankly, laughable.  So, um, yeah.  

I see potential there myself--i'll take Misha's word...for now.  Will be interested to see.

[SueB]

That puts them in the graveyard

[gonzosgirrl]

That left-side image looks like a de-aged Jack to me. Maybe they are turning back time to erase him from existence? #hopeful

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That left-side image looks like a de-aged Jack to me. Maybe they are turning back time to erase him from existence? #hopeful

Interesting idea on the de-aging.  Yes, he does LOOK like Jack - this is a job for Rowena!  Maybe they are trying that Hansel & Gretal spell so get Jack's soul back.  That would be kinda cool -- although I don't know if that would work -- like at all -- since he passed thru that stage in a nanosecond the first tme around.  

Updating Jess' sheet (with new data put in bold) -- Jess' last update was mid filming (11 Feb 19);

Episode 14x17 (currently filming ... at the time Jess stopped updating her sheet)
Title: Game Night
Written by:  Meredith Glynn
Director:  John Showalter
Filming Dates: February 5 - February 19; February 9 - February 20 (based on Jason Fischer's twitter)
Castiel? Yes. Jack? Yes
Guest stars: Mark Pellegrino (Lucifer), Danneel Ackles (Jo/Anael), Sam Smith (Mary)
Other Spoilers/info (newest to oldest):
Jo and Castiel share scenes
Scenes were filmed near a train
Seattle Convention to occur during filming (con canceled)

Other tidbits filming:

https://twitter.com/JasonFischer77/status/1094774047823486977

So the snow could not be avoided

And Sam took a picture of it (probably in front of Donatello's house). 

Note:  Sam was still in Vancouver going to work on the 21st.  Which puts her also in 14.18.

This episode was also filmed on Valentines Day - the entire Ackles family was on set and in Baby for a picture

[Jonesy]

BIG NEWS--J2M just announced season 15 is the last for SPN!!!  So that's it guys we will get 15 seasons--proud of the show but also a sad day.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jakes

[Ninamags]

Jesus, no wonder Jared was all bent out of shape filming that scene. 

Poor baby. 

[Jonesy]

26 minutes ago, Ninamags said:

Jesus, no wonder Jared was all bent out of shape filming that scene. 

Poor baby. 

Yeah, I think you are right.  In the video J2M all looked very emotional and Jensen noted Jared is very emotional.   They made the video right after telling the crew.

[Ninamags]

Actually, I was referring to the scene that Jared and Jensen filmed that they said at the con was very difficult for Jared to film. 

It took on an extra layer of meaning for him.