Spoilers With Speculation

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. Just saying that if they wanted a wackadoodle not broken Michael, I'm okay with that.

Which brings up a question. Can Asmodeus tell the difference between angel grace. I mean hasn't their grace been considered their lifeforce and thelr essence? Wouldn't someone like him be able to tell if he was siphoning a different angel's grace? Or is it more that he's only been siphoning from Gabriel for like....eons? Or what?

I don't quite get it what the grace does for him that being a demon doesn't. Demons can teleport or at least Crowley could. So what more is he getting than this demon powers. 

It's so stupid.

I assume he is injecting grace in order to be able to use the archangel blade t o kill Lucifer himself.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

IDK.  If Michael is pathetic, maybe Dean will "stabilize him". Big risk IMO.  

As for Ketch, if he doesn't die falling on a grenade for innocents, I think he'll stay behind when the 24 hrs is up and continue to look for Mary & Jack.  Now Mary may shoot him on sight (well deserved) but coming back to our Universe is just not really smart for him right now.  

The problem with Ketch is that he was a pychopath last year.  I don't see how that gets "cured" (without years of therapy and likely medication).  They've certainly made him act humble and grovelling towards the Winchesters, but humility doesn't cure an actual mental illness. And I think Ketch enjoyed torturing too much to suggest he was anything other than a psychopath.  Lady Toni as well BTW.  

Still, maybe death helped reset his brain wiring and he's not quite as deranged as before.  IDK.  We'll see how he is with Dean on this mission.  If there's anyplace one could remake yourself, it's probalby Apocalypse World.  Where everything is in ruins and people need help.  And if he choose to, Ketch would be useful.  But I just don't see a happy ever after for that dude.  A life of penance might be the best he can hope for.  I'm okay with Mary if she shoots him in the privates.  

 I Don't see how the con would work because demons in hell knew Michael was in the cage not Gabriel.   Rowena opened the cage in 11 at great risk.  I so not think Crowley or Rowena  would open it again again lightly unless they were tossing Lucifer back in.  

And two archangel woukd be double graced. No reason to play the sniveling coward.  It does not make sense. 

Better to hide in a human or a lowly cupid than another archangel.   Better yet why would  the most powerful archangel need to hide.

Too complicated.

The simplest answer is that it is AU Gabriel who was tortured by Michael and had part of his grace removed to weaken him and his mouth stitched shut to silence him and escaped here through a rift.  He may actually be a,spy for AU Michael and playing weak for access to intel.

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I assume he is injecting grace in order to be able to use the archangel blade t o kill Lucifer himself.

I still don't see how that would work either. He's still a demon with some archangel grace. I don't see why or how that would make him an archangel powerful to wield the archangel blade.

[Aeryn13]

So, the next episode is gonna have three "storylines". 

I`m not sure what is gonna A plot and B plot between "Dean and Ketch in AU world" and "Sam, Cas and Gabriel in bunker, likely under attack from Col. Sanders". Maybe they will equal time. I do reckon "Lucifer, Sister Jo and angel shenanigans" is gonna be the C plot. Though that still requires a little bit of screentime then.

If the guys in the bunker face their own attack, it does make it a bit less likely that they will handle that AND mount a big rescue mission afterwards. Maybe they are doing something to help Dean get back at the end but likely not cross over themselves. This will apparently come later in ep 22 anyway.

Now Dean and Ketch obviously won`t reach their incentive but their trip has to have a narrative purpose beyond "Ketch likely sacrifices himself" or he stays over there in a world that could use fighters. Gather some intel or accomplish something that makes this more than "padding" of an episode. It`s gonna be expensive location shooting and set dressing, with some effects and stunt work. Towards the end of the Season, there is probably not enough money to burn it on just "for shits and giggles". 

I figured meeting AU!Mike but if the actor is not in the episode, then obviously not. Just seeing how bad the world is? Dean already has seen it. Right now I`m a bit stumped. They already know in rough terms that AU!Mike wants to x-over and begin an invasion. Lucy told Cas who told the brothers as far as I can remember. Maybe they find out he is really close in making that happen.    

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

So, the next episode is gonna have three "storylines". 

I`m not sure what is gonna A plot and B plot between "Dean and Ketch in AU world" and "Sam, Cas and Gabriel in bunker, likely under attack from Col. Sanders". Maybe they will equal time. I do reckon "Lucifer, Sister Jo and angel shenanigans" is gonna be the C plot. Though that still requires a little bit of screentime then.

If the guys in the bunker face their own attack, it does make it a bit less likely that they will handle that AND mount a big rescue mission afterwards. Maybe they are doing something to help Dean get back at the end but likely not cross over themselves. This will apparently come later in ep 22 anyway.

Now Dean and Ketch obviously won`t reach their incentive but their trip has to have a narrative purpose beyond "Ketch likely sacrifices himself" or he stays over there in a world that could use fighters. Gather some intel or accomplish something that makes this more than "padding" of an episode. It`s gonna be expensive location shooting and set dressing, with some effects and stunt work. Towards the end of the Season, there is probably not enough money to burn it on just "for shits and giggles". 

I figured meeting AU!Mike but if the actor is not in the episode, then obviously not. Just seeing how bad the world is? Dean already has seen it. Right now I`m a bit stumped. They already know in rough terms that AU!Mike wants to x-over and begin an invasion. Lucy told Cas who told the brothers as far as I can remember. Maybe they find out he is really close in making that happen.    

I think that the original spot they were dumped in for the AU was Angel HQ adjacent.  It was very desert-hostile.  But we've seen Mary and Jack make it to a woods area with the help of Bobby and seen an encampment.  So, the world is a mess but not a post nuclear holocaust.  And it's big.  So, where are they dumped?  Clearly not back at desert world (where Dean was before) if they are running around in the snow.  He would head straight for the Church in the vision.  So, for Dean: Step 1: find out where they are relative to the Church and start looking for her.  Looks like the first signs of people they come across aree in this prisoner camp.  A good place to look for Mary anyway.  So....he leaves Ketch behind to gather intel. Find Mary.  Get the lay of the land.  It's going to be harder than the boys thought.  No "pop in and pop out".  

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Clearly not back at desert world (where Dean was before) if they are running around in the snow. 

Just being nitpicky, but it does snow in the desert if it gets cold enough. It snows in Death Valley. It's rare but they have gotten a dusting of snow in the valley itself on occasions. So maybe it's not that far from the desolate spot where the church was buried in rubble.

Dabb IMO is mining from THE END.  He's got Bobby,  a camp for the rebels, and now an internment camp. I'm really expecting AU Chuck and AU Cas to show up before long, and maybe even an AU "Dean" who is not named Dean but works in the rebel base.  I'm really curious how much more from THE END they mine.

Edited April 8, 2018 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

If they had made the trip closer to the Finale - and when they make the trip in either 21 or 22 again - I expect them to land in that exact same space everyone lands who immediately runs into everyone else important. I call it the land of plot convenience. 

So IMO that alone can`t be the reason for the side trip right now. Like I said, I could be convinced it`s just like the "Gog and Magog" scene, funny but ultimately completely pointless in the episode, just to pad the runtime. But that was likely not half as expensive to film as the AU world stuff is gonna be. I could also be convinced they want to give Ketch some redemption but again, that could just the same be accomplished in our world and not by blowing up their money for expensive location shooting. 

To shell out the money and time for that right now when obviously everyone is going over there again a couple of episodes later would be completely redundant if it doesn`t have a narrative purpose.  The best guess I can come up with right now would be finding some specific intel on what the angels are planning and how their invasion is imminent. Maybe the Michael-actor is in it after all, who knows. This just has to have a point. 

Just imagine if Dean is over there, searches for Mary, doesn`t find her, comes back and then three to four episodes later Dean and Sam go over there and obviously find Mary. For the sole reason that it`s now four episodes later. Even this show, I expect better from.     

[Bobcatkitten]

So Jared said today there is something in the final episode that he has wanted to say for a long time and it gave him chills when he read it. He whispered it to Jensen and Jensen said "you guys are going to hate it" to the crowd. I am so intrigued.

[SueB]

11 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

So Jared said today there is something in the final episode that he has wanted to say for a long time and it gave him chills when he read it. He whispered it to Jensen and Jensen said "you guys are going to hate it" to the crowd. I am so intrigued.

Made me think ‘Michael’ straight away.  

[gonzosgirrl]

30 minutes ago, SueB said:

Made me think ‘Michael’ straight away.  

Why would that be something Jared says though?

[catrox14]

58 minutes ago, SueB said:

Made me think ‘Michael’ straight away.  

Why would fans hate it though? There are a lot of fans really hoping for Michael!Dean.

If Jared is speaking of it, then I think it has to do with something Sam/Lucifer and is something Sam fans will hate vs Dean fans. 

So I'm putting it out there that Samifer rises again to fight Michael!Dean and what Samifer says is "Oh, aren't you a surprise" since I think they are totally repurposing THE END.

[MysteryGuest]

Do fans really want another Dean/Michael vs. Sam/Lucifer showdown?  What would be the point of that?  We're so far down the road from that storyline, I just don't get the appeal.  And what's the endgame?  Lucifer and Michael back in the cage, and what about Sam and Dean?  Rescued from hell by Castiel again?  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

I'm happy the show is continuing for another season at least, but I so want an end to the angel/demon saga.  If there was nothing interesting to write for a great actor like Mark Sheppard, then believe me, there's nothing interesting for Colonel Sanders, either.  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Do fans really want another Dean/Michael vs. Sam/Lucifer showdown? 

Another? There wasn't a first one. It was Samifer vs Michael!Adam. Dean just got the shit beat out of him by Samifer. That's not a showdown.

[MysteryGuest]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Another? There wasn't a first one. It was Samifer vs Michael!Adam. Dean just got the shit beat out of him by Samifer. That's not a showdown.

I just don't understand how this would be gratifying to anyone?  I get that some fans are disappointed that Dean didn't get to host Michael and fight Lucifer/Sam, but I just don't see what sort of satisfaction those fans would get out of this now, at this point in the series?  Honestly, I've never understood why Dean fans wanted it then, either, but certainly not now.  I want Jensen to have some great, meaty part to play just like every other Dean fan, but becoming Michael's meat suit doesn't seem like that part to me.  And I have to assume we'd get Michael vs. Michael this time, since AU Michael is supposed to be the big threat.  I'd much prefer having our Dean find a way to outsmart Michael, Lucifer, Asmodeus, etc., with the help of Team Free Will than to just have him be some archangel's vessel.  

I'm pretty sure this is what we're going to get, but I personally don't get the appeal.

[gonzosgirrl]

47 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just don't understand how this would be gratifying to anyone?  I get that some fans are disappointed that Dean didn't get to host Michael and fight Lucifer/Sam, but I just don't see what sort of satisfaction those fans would get out of this now, at this point in the series?  Honestly, I've never understood why Dean fans wanted it then, either, but certainly not now.  I want Jensen to have some great, meaty part to play just like every other Dean fan, but becoming Michael's meat suit doesn't seem like that part to me.  And I have to assume we'd get Michael vs. Michael this time, since AU Michael is supposed to be the big threat.  I'd much prefer having our Dean find a way to outsmart Michael, Lucifer, Asmodeus, etc., with the help of Team Free Will than to just have him be some archangel's vessel.  

I'm pretty sure this is what we're going to get, but I personally don't get the appeal.

At this point, for me, it *is* all about getting to see Jensen take on the new character, even if it's Michael. The storytelling, is, IMO, crappy and canon literally means nothing to the showrunners, I'm sorry to say I've given up on the expectation of a satisfying storyline for Dean (or pretty much anyone who isn't one of Dabb's pet characters), so all I have are the performances. I know Jensen will kill it, whatever it is ,and I know Dean will be back before long.

Edited April 9, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

I can't recall if this was mentioned in the posts about episode cast lists - but Jim Beaver just tweeted about leaving LAX for YVR, so I guess we know Bobby is in the finale.

[SueB]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Why would that be something Jared says though?

Because:
1) Jared loves the show and is a fan. And he could easily be in the Michael!Dean fandom.  It has many.
2) Because Jared adored Jensen and really wants a good part for him?
3) Because he's always like the mytharc stuff, this fits that love.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why would fans hate it though? There are a lot of fans really hoping for Michael!Dean.

If Jared is speaking of it, then I think it has to do with something Sam/Lucifer and is something Sam fans will hate vs Dean fans. 

So I'm putting it out there that Samifer rises again to fight Michael!Dean and what Samifer says is "Oh, aren't you a surprise" since I think they are totally repurposing THE END.

1) It was Jensen who said we'd hate it.  That's possibly because he knows there are also alot of fans who DON'T want to see Dean say yes to Michael, ever.  BUT, more than likely it's because it's like the black eyes moment and we get the "line" and then smash cut to credits.  In otherwords, Jensen playing a different character is a S14 plot and they LEAVE us with this cliffhanger and we are pissed because we have to speculate all summer what is going to happen.
2) When interviewed at Comic Con, yes, Jared almost exclusively talks about Sam. Usually in response to Sam-related questions but not always. But this notion that Jared ONLY talks about Sam is a local theory, not supported by many of his convention comments IMO.
3) Just because it's a distopian world doesn't make it a repurpose of "The End".  Sam and Dean don't exist in this AU except to hop over there now.  So there is no embittered Dean and Sam-in-a-Luci-Suit-for-years element.  That people end up collecting together in little encampments and resistance groups is pretty much par for ANY wartime story, let alone a distopian universe. I think Luci is locked in a Nick suit and TPTB love Mark P.  That character is not going to hop again IMO.  So other than encampments & resistance groups, I don't see "The End".  Like, at all. Now if we had a nearly human Castiel show up and he was a drug addict/hippy type (or even an weirdo hermit) then I would see some parallels. 

 

Personally, I don't want Dean as Michael.  I'm counting on "give them what they expect but not in the way they are expecting it" to make it palatable.  And yes, Jensen's acting.  But, I think we have our cliffhanger and we won't get enough intel on "Michael!Dean" to get a read on the characters' angle.  I could be wrong, but I suspect the pissed offedness is the cliffhanger part.  Jensen, IMO, wouldn't make a 'you're going to hate it" comment about Dean's story.  He'd handle it with more subtlety.  And he was pumped about the new character at Paleyfest.  So... I'm gonna guess it's the way it's revealed versus what is revealed.  Hence, I think "cliffhanger".  

[gonzosgirrl]

49 minutes ago, SueB said:

Because:
1) Jared loves the show and is a fan. And he could easily be in the Michael!Dean fandom.  It has many.
2) Because Jared adored Jensen and really wants a good part for him?
3) Because he's always like the mytharc stuff, this fits that love.

 

What I was referring to is this, the post you were quoting when you said it lead you straight to Michael:

Quote

So Jared said today there is something in the final episode that he has wanted to say for a long time'

I understood that to mean it was a line that Sam says. I didn't understand how that would automatically lead to one to think Michael! straight away. That's all. Jared's fan status has nothing to do with it.

Edited April 9, 2018 by gonzosgirrl
clean up quotes

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, scribe95 said:

So Jared said today there is something in the final episode that he has wanted to say for a long time and it gave him chills when he read it. He whispered it to Jensen and Jensen said "you guys are going to hate it" to the crowd. I am so intrigued.

 

57 minutes ago, SueB said:

1) It was Jensen who said we'd hate it. 

I'm going by the above comment that Jensen said "you guys are going to hate it" hence the rest of my opinion on that.

59 minutes ago, SueB said:

) When interviewed at Comic Con, yes, Jared almost exclusively talks about Sam. Usually in response to Sam-related questions but not always. But this notion that Jared ONLY talks about Sam is a local theory, not supported by many of his convention comments IMO.

It's a pattern. Even if he talks about the show, he's still pretty consistent that his drops are typically tied to Sam in some way. Remember the Mark of Cain drop at a con and I kept saying it would be Sam who gets the Mark at some point and you all poo poo'd me? Sure enough even for a hot 30 seconds Sam had the Mark of Cain.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

3) Just because it's a distopian world doesn't make it a repurpose of "The End".  Sam and Dean don't exist in this AU except to hop over there now.  So there is no embittered Dean and Sam-in-a-Luci-Suit-for-years element.  That people end up collecting together in little encampments and resistance groups is pretty much par for ANY wartime story, let alone a distopian universe. I think Luci is locked in a Nick suit and TPTB love Mark P.  That character is not going to hop again IMO.  So other than encampments & resistance groups, I don't see "The End".  Like, at all. Now if we had a nearly human Castiel show up and he was a drug addict/hippy type (or even an weirdo hermit) then I would see some parallels. 

It doesn't have to be a direct repurposing. Dabb has repurposed the entire show at this point and made cosmetic changes or just flipped things a bit. That's what I consider repurposing. Agree to disagree. 

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What I was referring to is this, the post you were quoting when you said it lead you straight to Michael:

I understood that to mean it was a line that Sam says. I didn't understand how that would automatically lead to one to think Michael! straight away. That's all. Jared's fan status has nothing to do with it.

Ah..I was confused because I thought you were referring to the oft-stated theory that Jared only talks about Sam stuff.  

Let me clarify. 

First, it's something he wanted to 'say' for a long time.  Which means (IMO) that there was an opportunity to say such a line in a previous season but that line didn't come to fruition.  Second, "A long time" puts it more than 1-2 seasons I think.  Third, we're lousy with Archangels again (3!). Fourth, Jared has often stated his fondness for the mytharc material, which plays into a series-long kind of event. Fifth, we've got the Jensen is playing a new character, someone we haven't seen in a while (which means it's a character that HAS been on the show, not someone new).  So, since we've got Jensen playing a 'new' character, the obvious road not taken related to a mytharc seems to be Michael!Dean IMO.  I think Jared's fan status as a 'mytharc fan' is why I think he's so stoked about it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, SueB said:

Ah..I was confused because I thought you were referring to the oft-stated theory that Jared only talks about Sam stuff.  

Let me clarify. 

First, it's something he wanted to 'say' for a long time.  Which means (IMO) that there was an opportunity to say such a line in a previous season but that line didn't come to fruition.  Second, "A long time" puts it more than 1-2 seasons I think.  Third, we're lousy with Archangels again (3!). Fourth, Jared has often stated his fondness for the mytharc material, which plays into a series-long kind of event. Fifth, we've got the Jensen is playing a new character, someone we haven't seen in a while (which means it's a character that HAS been on the show, not someone new).  So, since we've got Jensen playing a 'new' character, the obvious road not taken related to a mytharc seems to be Michael!Dean IMO.  I think Jared's fan status as a 'mytharc fan' is why I think he's so stoked about it. 

LOL, well it's a theory I subscribe to, but that's another post. ;-)

I still don't see what line Sam/Jared could say that draws a straight line to Michael.

I'm going to bet here and now Sam's line (that Jared has been waiting to say) is directly related to Lucifer and contains the words I, my, me, or mine.

Edited April 9, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

LOL, well it's a theory I subscribe to, but that's another post. ;-)

I still don't see what line Sam/Jared could say that draws a straight line to Michael.

I'm going to bet here and now Sam's line (that Jared has been waiting to say) is directly related to Lucifer and contains the words I, my, me, or mine.

 

I'll take that bet, with the proviso that "my brother" doesn't count (Dean being the subject of the sentence) and "I" doesn't count if he's saying something like "I think..." and proceeds to talk about something that is not about Sam.  

 

Synopsis

Quote

 

Unfinished Business

DIRECTED BY AND GUEST STARRING RICHARD SPEIGHT, JR – Gabriel (guest star Richard Speight, Jr.) is back and drags Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) into his plot for revenge on the demigods who sold him to Asmodeus. Meanwhile, Jack’s (Alexander Calvert) inflating confidence leads to reckless decisions that could put others in harm’s way. Richard Speight, Jr. directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1320). Original airdate 4/26/2018.

 

posted on tumblr by  sjb6759

 

So... somehow demigods got the better of an Archangel.  MMMMkay. Maybe?  I still think he was hiding in the past or REALLY liked Seinfeld's pirate shirt.  

Oy, and Jack turns Icarus for an episode. Damn. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by SueB

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

So... somehow demigods got the better of an Archangel.  MMMMkay. Maybe? 

Oooh... maybe a god from "Hammer of the Gods" resurrected Gabriel and kept him prisoner? Were any of those gods left besides Kali? Did any come late to the party and find dead Gabriel? Do any of the pagan gods have the ability to resurrect? Hmmm.

That would actually be a plausible scenario for me.

[mertensia]

There are a metric ton of Gods who simply were not at the confab- Artemis, the Japanese pantheon, the Mayan pantheon, etc., etc. Who knows why-disinterest, wanting to stay the Hell away from the Winchesters, vacationing in Rio....

[SueB]

3 hours ago, mertensia said:

There are a metric ton of Gods who simply were not at the confab- Artemis, the Japanese pantheon, the Mayan pantheon, etc., etc. Who knows why-disinterest, wanting to stay the Hell away from the Winchesters, vacationing in Rio....

- missed their flight
- cat was sick
- scoping out from a distance
Yep.  You're right.  But they must have helped him for a reason and then turned on him.  

Regardless, they've clearly got a "story" and Gabriel is "back" baby!  In that I mean, the revenge turn sounds totally Gabriel thing to do.  Our Gabriel.  And I could see him elicit the Winchester help in exchange for helping them.  

[Myrelle]

14 hours ago, scribe95 said:

So Jared said today there is something in the final episode that he has wanted to say for a long time and it gave him chills when he read it. He whispered it to Jensen and Jensen said "you guys are going to hate it" to the crowd. I am so intrigued.

What Jensen said is intriguing to me if one considers the thought that he(IMO) sees the general viewing population of this show as predominantly fans of the Winchester brothers-first-and-before-all-other-relationships.

 

 

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

At this point, for me, it *is* all about getting to see Jensen take on the new character, even if it's Michael. The storytelling, is, IMO, crappy and canon literally means nothing to the showrunners, I'm sorry to say I've given up on the expectation of a satisfying storyline for Dean (or pretty much anyone who isn't one of Dabb's pet characters), so all I have are the performances. I know Jensen will kill it, whatever it is ,and I know Dean will be back before long.

ITA with this.

This is one of those times that I wish I could do with this show what I do with most other shows that I watch and wait until the season is over in order to binge watch and get past the dross as quickly as possible in my quest for the gold, but I can only curse The Ackles, himself, and his acting for this. He's the only reason why, personally speaking and just like Dean,  I just can't wait to do that.

I jones for JA during any kind of a hiatus, but sadly and lately under Dabb's  influence and control, I've more been jonesing to see him play someone other than Dean.

It's still, sadly, the Dabb/Singer influence that worries me the most, but I DO have a feeling that the new character that JA is playing will not be as limiting or restrictive for the actor where it concerns certain things as Dean has become for him under these two.

I know it won't last(as I'd bet JA knows by now also), but I'm excited beyond words by the "something different" aspect for him as an actor of the kind who, IMO, would, likely want to feel more challenged and emboldened by his role choices, at times.

IMO, it's way past time that this happened for him, on this show.

I just wish that we could get to it quicker, though, and that it wouldn't have to involve so much Lucifer/Gabriel/Asmodeus/Mary/Jack stuff beforehand.

IOW, hopefully this will be one of those rare occasions on this show and for this fan, where the pay-off will be much better than the set-up.

 

 

.

[Bobcatkitten]

Now that the video is up I went back and transcribed it exactly. Seems very much Michael to me.

 

Jared - There are some scenes that I read that I have literally been waiting for years to read the words I read and gave me chills.

(whispers to jensen)

Jensen - Oh yeah, That's a good one. That's years, years in the making. Y'all are going to hate it. Or are you?

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Now that the video is up I went back and transcribed it exactly. Seems very much Michael to me.

 

Jared - There are some scenes that I read that I have literally been waiting for years to read the words I read and gave me chills.

(whispers to jensen)

Jensen - Oh yeah, That's a good one. That's years, years in the making. Y'all are going to hate it. Or are you?

AH!! "words I read" is definitely not the same thing as "line I say". Now I can agree that he may well be referring to and excited by Michael/Dean. But I can equally see them being something Sam gets to say/do to Lucifer.

Thanks!

Edited April 9, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Myrelle]

42 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Now that the video is up I went back and transcribed it exactly. Seems very much Michael to me.

 

Jared - There are some scenes that I read that I have literally been waiting for years to read the words I read and gave me chills.

(whispers to jensen)

Jensen - Oh yeah, That's a good one. That's years, years in the making. Y'all are going to hate it. Or are you?

 

27 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

AH!! "words I read" is definitely not the same thing as "line I say".

IA. Their actual dialogue at the con sheds a whole different light on things-especially the bolded part.

[Aeryn13]

I think Jensen was a bit sarcastic - in a playful way -  when he said "you`re all going to hate it". If it IS Michael, then he knows that some will and some will love it very much. It`s not exactly a quiet, never-talked about topic in fandom and I presume stuff like that is known by the actors. 

Yes, on the first tweet being misleading. I watched the vid yesterday but had to sleep and then work before I could post. :)   Jared refering to scenes and lines he had been waiting for years to read while not 100 % point to Michael are still a big indicator. 

I assume it`s Jensen playing or rather Dean becoming a different character for a change which would change Sam`s response to him. And if both actors thought Michael!Dean would be a thing in Season 5, then obviously this would be a case of "okay, now it`s happening". 

Now I do not see a complete redo of 5.22 in terms of Sam also becoming Lucifer. I frankly do not even see Lucifer as the main villain. I think they are getting Michael for Michael. If it`s Michael. 

Curious that the actor for AU-Michael is not listed for any of the upcoming episodes on the spoiler tumblr. Surely, that can`t be right? Unless they bring the big invasion story and M vs. M into Season 14. Still, he should make at least one threatening appearance till the Season is over.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Curious that the actor for AU-Michael is not listed for any of the upcoming episodes on the spoiler tumblr. Surely, that can`t be right? Unless they bring the big invasion story and M vs. M into Season 14. Still, he should make at least one threatening appearance till the Season is over.

Or he's not listed because Jensen is playing Michael. 

[Myrelle]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Curious that the actor for AU-Michael is not listed for any of the upcoming episodes on the spoiler tumblr. Surely, that can`t be right? Unless they bring the big invasion story and M vs. M into Season 14. Still, he should make at least one threatening appearance till the Season is over.

IA and can't understand why he's not listed also-even if Jensen is going to be playing AUMichael instead of OurWorldMichael, I would hope that they would show us the actual possession scene; but with this set of writers, who knows. Maybe they would deem that "unimportant" or "unnecessary" just going by their track record. :-/

Otherwise, the only other reason that I can think of is the first bolded sentence. Maybe Dean learns of AUMichael's actual plan from an underling in this week's episode and returns with the intel and that's why Cas is trying to gather an angel army in 19.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Myrelle

[DeeDee79]

The actor that portrays AU Michael is one of the leads in a new show titled “In Contempt” on the BET network. I’ve been seeing commercials for it for a few weeks now. I’m guessing that he was no longer available.

[Bobcatkitten]

Just now, DeeDee79 said:

The actor that portrays AU Michael is one of the leads in a new show titled “In Contempt” on the BET network. I’ve been seeing commercials for it for a few weeks now. I’m guessing that he was no longer available.

So they are just dropping a character with no explanation with just a few episodes left? Yikes. 

[gonzosgirrl]

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Still, he should make at least one threatening appearance till the Season is over.

Especially when at least two of the eps have scenes over there. Strange, indeed.

ETA: Just saw the other posts. Surely they would have contracted him to play out the season? Although I guess it's easy enough for an angel/demon to switch vessels when necessary. Being the 'ideal' to house an archangel doesn't seem to be the issue it was in S5.

Edited April 9, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Or he's not listed because Jensen is playing Michael. 

They`d still have to set up AU!Michael even taking notice of him, being interested in him and why and how Dean would say "yes" to this. You need AU!Michael-not-played-by-Jensen for that. It`s unfortunate if the actor is no longer available but then have him change vessels. And give him a confrontation scene with Dean when he is still Dean. If it all happens offscreen, it will be a super letdown. 

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

So they are just dropping a character with no explanation with just a few episodes left? Yikes. 

I would think that there would be some explanation since he’s been shown to be a major player in the AU. Who knows with these writers.

[emilyhall205]

I’m pretty sure AU!Michael turns up again in episode 22.

 

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm so glad that I am on season five in my rewatch. Good timing indeed. Michael just showed up in The Song Remains the Same. All this will be fresh in my head. 

[Myrelle]

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Yeah, 6 days ago puts him in the finale, at least.

Well, 22 and/or the finale.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, emilyhall205 said:

I’m pretty sure AU!Michael turns up again in episode 22.

 

I really do enjoy this actor.  I wish his Michael was a little less one note.

[Aeryn13]

They might have shot some scenes for ep 22 and 23 with him in one go if they only had him for a limited amount of time. If it`s all set in AU-world anyway, you can easily make that happen.

[Jonesy]

Yeah, I'm sure he's available for last couple of episodes even if he is doing some BET work--his part isn't that big overall time wise.

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Curious that the actor for AU-Michael is not listed for any of the upcoming episodes on the spoiler tumblr. Surely, that can`t be right?

 

The spoiler sheet is complied using publicly available information. The list of appearances is usually based on things such as; fans recording the show while it’s filming in a public space, or one of the actors tweeting about their journey to Vancouver or how much they’re enjoying their time there. She has been known to get things wrong on occasion for example assuming an actor is in Vancouver for SN, but it’s actually for another show or missing out actors who are more low key.

 

Christian Keyes could still be in future episodes as a result. It may just be that none of his scenes have taken place in public spaces for example he may have been present for the curtained off J2M scene in 13x22.

 

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Just saw the other posts. Surely they would have contracted him to play out the season?

Since he’s a guest star they wouldn’t have. Recurring guest stars, like Christian Keyes, work on an episode by episode basis. They have no commitments to the show, and likewise the show has no commitment to the actor if they decide to drop storylines, and the actor is therefore free to pursue better opportunities (such as a starring role) elsewhere.

 

That’s the key difference between recurring guests and the series regulars (Misha, Mark P and Alexander). The series regulars have formal contracts with the show. The contracts usually include things such as; a set number of episodes they’ll appear in that  season, the amount they’ll be paid, potential billing obligations (for example Misha now has the “And” billing) and the actors are obliged to put Supernatural commitments first.  For example Eric Kripke stated he wanted to make Misha a large part in an episode of Timeless last season. However, due to commitments with Supernatural he was forced to reduce the part as they only had Misha for a days filming. Had Misha been a guest star that season he’d have been in the position to ask the show to not use Cas for that particular episode as he had a prior commitment with Timeless. 

 

The obligation to put the show first can often be the deciding factor on whether an actor wants to make a recurring guest or regular. Jim Beaver was actually offered a series regular role (IIRC it was offered when they first promoted Misha back in season 5)), but Jim rejected the offer as he enjoyed the flexibility and lack of commitment a recurring guest role allowed.  

Edited April 9, 2018 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Quote

The spoiler sheet is complied using publicly available information. The list of appearances is usually based on things such as; fans recording the show while it’s filming in a public space, or one of the actors tweeting about their journey to Vancouver or how much they’re enjoying their time there. She has been known to get things wrong on occasion for example assuming an actor is in Vancouver for SN, but it’s actually for another show or missing out actors who are more low key.

I know it`s just pieced together but I wondered because it`s usually so on point and detailed. Now since this vid by Keyes has surfaced, I reckon she`ll update the info. 

[Wynne88]

As I recall, there have been a few times where a guest star's name was deliberately withheld, to ensure their appearance on the show would be a surprise.  Perhaps that's happening here, since so many people are anticipating Dean/Michael?  His supposed absence might create a little more uncertainty.

[Jonesy]

TVLine just dropped a juicy bit:

 

 

Mary likes the pure fight of the AU world(and fighting for a cause) and likes being there--when the boys get there and she's somewhat hesitant to leave, it causes tension.  I say leave her there Sam and Dean!  That's the perfect solution...she's been on the show long enough imo.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, Jakes said:

TVLine just dropped a juicy bit:

 

 

Mary likes the pure fight of the AU world and likes being there--when the boys get there and she's somewhat hesitant to leave, it causes tension.  I say leave her there Sam and Dean!  That's the perfect solution...she's been on the show long enough imo.

 

I think leaving her might be the plan and it is probably for the best. Her resurrection has been such a waste and not at all worth it IMO. The last two seasons have simply been a series of nonsensical excuses to keep her away from the brothers, often character damaging ones at that, because they know the Mary we knew from seasons 1-11 would have moved in with her boys and got to know them and this show is far too cowardly to try promoting someone else to full time. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

I had a feeling this episode was going to end with Dean finding Mary and her not wanting to leave.  I wonder if Jack stays or goes with Dean because the synopsis for episode 20 says that Jack finds his confidence growing.