Spoilers With Speculation

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

S4 was probably the most divided the boys have ever been over a single season.  Sam and Dean were at odds from the get go and never really reconciled until the season finale. And they were not on the same page until the final moments of s4.  The boys beat the shit out of each other. Yes,  I know supernatural influence battles but  the point  being that Kripke s writing /storyline still put them  on opposite sides and angst was at Defcon 1 going g into s5.

I agree with you on this one in terms of the amount of angst in season 4. It's probably the main reason season 4 is one of my least favorites of the show and is one that I don't revisit all that much. When it's being rerun on TNT, I skip it entirely, not even using it as background noise. One of the other reasons I don't like season 4 all that much is that I thought that Sam's behavior in that season was taken over the top unnecessarily in order to ramp up that angst. There was also unnecessary piling on with Dean's hell experience for the same reason. And this is where I'm fairly consistent. My problem is less the angst, because as you and @ILoveReading have said above, it is often there. It's with what I called above manufactured angst: angst for the sake of angst that doesn't spring from the characters' natural personalities and differences.

And for me season 8 and 9 was full of that. There could have been plenty of natural angst to be had from Dean coming back from purgatory changed from the experience and Sam feeling guilty for not having been able to save him. But nope, Carver had to pile on Sam not looking for Dean or even more weirdly, Kevin, acting unusually antagonistic towards Benny, and several other things Sam normally wouldn't do mainly so that there would be angst. Season 9 was almost as bad. There was already enough angst with Dean helping Gadreel get an invite to save Sam, but Carver had Dean lie about it again and again, way past when I thought he would or should have, and then when Sam did find out, Carver had Sam not forgive Dean and hold a grudge (which I hadn't really seen Sam do before season 8) and be horrible to Dean, again just to ramp up the angst when there already could've been enough tension based on the situation.

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean pointed out some very rational arguments as to why it wasn't God.  The strongest being the point about God never saying that God helps those who help themselves.  That was from Aesop.  Yet Sam didn't listen.  He was convinced he was God's chosen and nothing was going to deter him.  After Sully told Sam that it was something only he could do, it was the deciding factor for Sam.  Yet he never stopped to ask a question that should have been obvious.  Why would Lucifer help?  It appeared, even if it wasn't the writers intention that Sam valued Sully's words over Dean's. 

My interpretation of this whole scenario was a bit different. For me Sam's discussions with Sully were less Sam thinking he was "God's chosen" and Sully implying  "only you can do this" - since Sully was talking about heroes in general not necessarily Sam - and more "if you want/need to do this, don't let your fear stop you." Which was why the whole "do you ever feel like running away" theme came up several times. Even Sully's situation was him this time not running away and finally facing the mistakes he had made with Reese. As Sam said at the end of the episode "I can't let this lump in my throat stop me." And that, I think is in character for Sam... as is the generally overly optimistic hope that he can fix a mistake he's made and his desire/need to do so. Nothing manufactured about that for me.

The other things - like the lying - were angsty, but they were quick and didn't provide the bulk of the angst/conflict in the latter half of the season. For the most part, Sam and Dean were working together to defeat the darkness and Amara was the antagonist - not each other.

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

It didn't take Rowena long to goad Sam into going alone and breaking his promise to Dean. 

Sam said that he would call Dean if it was a go. Sam did call. Dean didn't answer the phone. Yes, Sam shouldn't have gone ahead, but Rowena can be a bit persuasive when it comes to Sam - Sam really should try to stop that. Don't listen to the witch, Sam - she lies.

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam did continue to work behind Dean's back.   He didn't tell Dean about his conversation with God about him carrying the mark.  So we have a lie by omission. 

I'm not sure I would call that one thing Sam continuing to work behind Dean's back, but okay. And Dean didn't really tell Sam about the problems he was having with Amara at first, either. This wasn't just a one-sided thing. However in season 11, the difference was in when Sam and Dean each found out about these things, there was understanding on why the other hadn't shared. (like Sam being understanding when he found out about Amara in "Love Hurts" or Dean not being angry with Sam in "The Devil in the Details.")  They didn't have a huge fight about it and then pout or pick at each other about it for the rest of the season. They understood, put it behind them and continued on. For me, that was a huge improvement over the petty snipe fests that were season 8 and 9.

What I am enjoying so far this season is a continuation of this kind of thing. I'm not seeing any indication of any contrived situations where the brothers are at odds. Natural conflicts based on their individual differences don't really bother me. It's the manufactured stuff that rankles.
 

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

The writers do have Sam make some unfortunate decisions sometimes just to further the plot along, and if I were a Sam fan, it would annoy the hell out of me.  Actually, I am a Sam fan, and it does annoy the hell out of me.  I may be a bigger Dean fan, but I absolutely have issues with how the writers tend to screw with Sam's character. 

This! Yes, thank you.

Edited February 9, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

Oh no. This is horrifying.???

This is not okay. His face. Not a word of a lie. I cried. This is hard because I've watched someone with dementia experience the loss of ability to remember how to drive. And Dean is trying to hide that he can't remember or doesn't know he can't remember. JFC.

 

http://tvline.com/2017/02/09/supernatural-spoilers-season-12-episode-11-dean-memory-loss-baby-video/

Edited February 9, 2017 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

Oh my. My stomach dropped when he said "Who's Dean..."  But Good Lord, Jensen looks so unbelievably Beautiful there. *Swooooooooooooooooon*

[ILoveReading]

There is a producer preview on the CW site.

"Eventually, he'll forget how to breathe and eat.'

It also looks like Dean gets hexed on a case. 

[catrox14]

West Guantanamo? Really? If that whats they were going for yeah, no. They didn't communicate that at all

[Boopsahoy]

24 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

It's probably the main reason season 4 is one of my least favorites of the show and is one that I don't revisit all that much. When it's being rerun on TNT, I skip it entirely, not even using it as background noise.

Its funny, season 4 has many of my favorite episodes-Lazarus Rising, Monster Movie, Yellow Fever,I know What You Did Last Summer, Heaven and Hell, Its a Terrible Life, Monster AT The End Of This Book-the rest of the episodes are either meh or I hate them. I cannot watch On The Head Of A Pin at all for one. The season I really didn't like was season 9 at all.

[DittyDotDot]

35 minutes ago, Diane said:

Oh no, poor Baby! ;)

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Whilst Carver had his failures re Canon and I think he mishandled Sam not looking for Dean and Kevin , I really think there was no more angst under Carver era than Kripke or Gamble. . Every season under Kripke had a crapton of angst and division.

If you ask me, there's a difference angst and division.

[Boopsahoy]

9 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Oh my. My stomach dropped when he said "Who's Dean..."  But Good Lord, Jensen looks so unbelievably Beautiful there. *Swooooooooooooooooon

My eyes teared up! Jensen is going to kill me tonight!

[Aeryn13]

Quote

There is a producer preview on the CW site.

"Eventually, he'll forget how to breathe and eat.'

It also looks like Dean gets hexed on a case. 

Did they say anything else? As usual, I can`t even access the CW site, let alone view content there.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oh no, poor Baby! ;)

If you ask me, there's a difference angst and division.

Kripke had division between the two fromthe outset of the series.  The angst came out of that division. Overall though,  there has been some level of manufactured angst in all seasons.  Carver didn't have a monopoly on that aspect. It may not have been handled as deftly as Kripke,  but it was still there with Kripke and Gamble. And with Dabb too,

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Did they say anything else? As usual, I can`t even access the CW site, let alone view content there.

Nothing we don't already know.  We see Dean chasing someone through a forest and he has the guy cornered when he's hexed. 

[AwesomO4000]

4 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

Its funny, season 4 has many of my favorite episodes-Lazarus Rising, Monster Movie, Yellow Fever,I know What You Did Last Summer, Heaven and Hell, Its a Terrible Life, Monster AT The End Of This Book-the rest of the episodes are either meh or I hate them. I cannot watch On The Head Of A Pin at all for one. The season I really didn't like was season 9 at all.

I don't disagree with you much there. There are a couple of episodes I liked in season 9, but only a few. Season 8, there were 1 or 2 episodes I liked.

I, too, loved "It's a Terrible Life" and "Monster at the End...." and I liked "Monster Movie," so I misspoke,  if those happen to be on, I'll watch them. Thank you for reminding me that not all of season 4 was a downer. I tend to forget sometimes that those eps were in season 4, since the rest were often such a downer. And "I Know What You Did...." had its moments. But "On the Head of a Pin?" Agreed. That episode is a complete downer for me and tends to annoy me just thinking about it.

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There is a producer preview on the CW site.

"Eventually, he'll forget how to breathe and eat.'

It also looks like Dean gets hexed on a case. 

Those are dementia symptoms. The brain can no longer make the body do what it needs to do. I dunno man. Please let this be sensitive.

I couldn't find the preview on th CW site. Weird

[Diane]

I think this is it, I found it on twitter, couldn't find it on the CW website.

[Wayward Son]

I am trying to wait until I have seen the actual episode to judge, but I am worried about the characterisation of Sam in this episode. He seemed far too harsh towards Dean rather than displaying the concern I would have expected of Sam especially when he was struggling to remember which key to use. 

[Diane]

http://tvline.com/2017/02/09/jane-the-virgin-season-3-jane-rafael-romance-spoilers/

Question: Any Supernatural spoilers? —Maria
Ausiello: Misha Collins confirms what co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previously told TVLine about there being another big Castiel episode in the pipeline. “Particularly getting close to the end of the season, things heat up dramatically for Cas,” Collins previews. “The pursuit of Kelly and her spawn turns into a transformative experience for Castiel, and that is meant with every possible type of entendre. We’re going to see a new iteration of Cas coming up.”

[PAForrest]

18 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

My eyes teared up! Jensen is going to kill me tonight!

This is one I'm going to watch live for once. It's been so long since Jensen had something really meaty to work with, and I'm looking forward to seeing his performance tonight!

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, Diane said:

http://tvline.com/2017/02/09/jane-the-virgin-season-3-jane-rafael-romance-spoilers/

Question: Any Supernatural spoilers? —Maria
Ausiello: Misha Collins confirms what co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previously told TVLine about there being another big Castiel episode in the pipeline. “Particularly getting close to the end of the season, things heat up dramatically for Cas,” Collins previews. “The pursuit of Kelly and her spawn turns into a transformative experience for Castiel, and that is meant with every possible type of entendre. We’re going to see a new iteration of Cas coming up.”

I hope this doesn't mean we go from Cas being  possessed by Lucifer in season 11 to Cas being possessed by Lucifer's unborn child in season 12. The whole "new iteration" makes me wary :s

[Diane]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

I hope this doesn't mean we go from Cas being  possessed by Lucifer in season 11 to Cas being possessed by Lucifer's unborn child in season 12. The whole "new iteration" makes me wary :s

Oh God me too, I didn't even think of that.

[ILoveReading]

I think they are going to turn Cas into a reaper.  Misha gave a spoiler at a con that Cas is more powerful than he should be.

[Icarus]

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I am trying to wait until I have seen the actual episode to judge, but I am worried about the characterisation of Sam in this episode. He seemed far too harsh towards Dean rather than displaying the concern I would have expected of Sam especially when he was struggling to remember which key to use. 

This worries me as well,

 

30 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

Its funny, season 4 has many of my favorite episodes-Lazarus Rising, Monster Movie, Yellow Fever,I know What You Did Last Summer, Heaven and Hell, Its a Terrible Life, Monster AT The End Of This Book-the rest of the episodes are either meh or I hate them. I cannot watch On The Head Of A Pin at all for one. The season I really didn't like was season 9 at all.

and this brings back memories of the lighthearted way Sam and Bobby, but especially Sam behaved towards Dean in yellow Fever - just did not sit right that they would not be more worried.  Hope they don't go that route again. 

In the main though I am really looking forward to a meaty Jensen episode.

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I think they are going to turn Cas into a reaper.  Misha gave a spoiler at a con that Cas is more powerful than he should be.

Did he imply that he would grow more powerful? Or that he is currently more powerful? If the latter we have definitely seen no signs of that. Castiel was defeated by the BMoL member and he has shown little displays of power this season. The only thing I can think of is that he seemed to heal Isham a little too well if his comments on feeling better than ever is anything to go by. 

[DittyDotDot]

9 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Did he imply that he would grow more powerful? Or that he is currently more powerful? If the latter we have definitely seen no signs of that. Castiel was defeated by the BMoL member and he has shown little displays of power this season. The only thing I can think of is that he seemed to heal Isham a little too well if his comments on feeling better than ever is anything to go by. 

I wonder if Cass, being "chosen" by God and all, isn't more powerful than his class of angel is supposed to be? Obviously he's not the most powerful angel out there, but maybe he's overpowered for his rank? Maybe it has something to do with God resurrecting him multiple times, residual effects of being possessed by Satan or maybe even residual effects of being powered up with all the souls of Purgatory, or a combination of all of them?

I wonder if they're going to make him an arc angel...of sorts? Maybe he'll become a new class of arc angel?

[catrox14]

Maybe Cas becomes the new Death not just a reaper.  That would be more powerful than a reaper or an angel. Maybe he finds out he's Death because he accidentally kills someone just with his touch when he didn't intend to kill them.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I am trying to wait until I have seen the actual episode to judge, but I am worried about the characterisation of Sam in this episode. He seemed far too harsh towards Dean rather than displaying the concern I would have expected of Sam especially when he was struggling to remember which key to use. 

To be fair, the two clips shown so far seem to be from pretty early in the episode, well before Sam realized there was anything really wrong.  It seems that he just thought Dean was either hungover or still stressed out about their capture/escape, and was more annoyed than worried, especially since Dean seemed to be shrugging it off.  Until proven wrong (as in Yellow Fever, as Icarus pointed out), I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it'll be as painfully angsty as anyone could want. :)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I am trying to wait until I have seen the actual episode to judge, but I am worried about the characterisation of Sam in this episode. He seemed far too harsh towards Dean rather than displaying the concern I would have expected of Sam especially when he was struggling to remember which key to use. 

He may think Dean is just drunk and hungover but once he realizes he's in big trouble he might soften his way.  It's possible Sam might react poorly because he's terrified himself of seeing Dean go through this. Sam has seen Dean die 100's of times and he saw Dean as a demon for a hot minute but Dean knew who he was etc. But here, Dean doesn't know how to do things anymore and that might be more than Sam can handle, which is not an uncommon reaction to this sudden kind of change. Even if Sam is reacting poorly or angrily at first, I would imagine he'll adjust pretty quickly.

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

To be fair, the two clips shown so far seem to be from pretty early in the episode, well before Sam realized there was anything really wrong.  It seems that he just thought Dean was either hungover or still stressed out about their capture/escape, and was more annoyed than worried, especially since Dean seemed to be shrugging it off.  Until proven wrong (as in Yellow Fever, as Icarus pointed out), I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it'll be as painfully angsty as anyone could want. :)

 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

He may think Dean is just drunk and hungover but once he realizes he's in big trouble he might soften his way.  It's possible Sam might react poorly because he's terrified himself of seeing Dean go through this. Sam has seen Dean die 100's of times and he saw Dean as a demon for a hot minute but Dean knew who he was etc. But here, Dean doesn't know how to do things anymore and that might be more than Sam can handle, which is not an uncommon reaction to this sudden kind of change. Even if Sam is reacting poorly or angrily at first, I would imagine he'll adjust pretty quickly.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am sure that Sam will display the appropriate level of worry once he finds out the truth. The expression on his face at the end of the clip certainly conveys his sudden worry. However, even with that in mind the characterisation just didn't feel quite right to me. Even if Sam did think it was simply post prison stress he is the type who would try to get Dean to talk it out with him rather than dismissively tell him to "get it together". I am not trying to accuse Sam of being a bad brother, or anything like that, I just don't think the response is true to his character. Of the two Dean is the one more likely to tell someone to get it together. Not because he doesn't care, but as shown by his behaviour towards Castiel last episode he isn't always the most comfortable with expressing concern for others. 

Just my two cents and I do hope to be proven wrong once I see the episode as a whole :)

[Geordiegirl1967]

32 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

However, even with that in mind the characterisation just didn't feel quite right to me. Even if Sam did think it was simply post prison stress he is the type who would try to get Dean to talk it out with him rather than dismissively tell him to "get it together". I am not trying to accuse Sam of being a bad brother, or anything like that, I just don't think the response is true to his character

I agree. I have the same concerns based on the 2 clips. There's something off about Sam. Hope the ep gives us some deserved and long overdue brotherly moments. 

[catrox14]

38 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am sure that Sam will display the appropriate level of worry once he finds out the truth. The expression on his face at the end of the clip certainly conveys his sudden worry. However, even with that in mind the characterisation just didn't feel quite right to me. Even if Sam did think it was simply post prison stress he is the type who would try to get Dean to talk it out with him rather than dismissively tell him to "get it together". I am not trying to accuse Sam of being a bad brother, or anything like that, I just don't think the response is true to his character. Of the two Dean is the one more likely to tell someone to get it together. Not because he doesn't care, but as shown by his behaviour towards Castiel last episode he isn't always the most comfortable with expressing concern for others. 

Just my two cents and I do hope to be proven wrong once I see the episode as a whole :)

Maybe the boys were butting heads during the time between the Lily Sunder ep and this ep. If Sam irritated with Dean already and he now thinks Dean is slacking or drunk or what have you, it's exacerbating Sam's attitude with Dean. But to me, I don't find Sam all that much off when he gets irritated with Dean. And   Sam has been on edge IMO all season but has been repressing it. Maybe now it's bubbling through a bit more.  I dunno, just a thought.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 2/8/2017 at 7:29 AM, Demented Daisy said:

Well, slap my ass and call me Sally!  That's what I get for mis-reading Kripke's tweet.  ;-)

*walks in, reads quoted post, fights with & tries to lock the inner pervert back up, and fails so walks back out before it can make a fool of me*

[AwesomO4000]

Hee, don't worry @iRarelyWatchTV36.... remember there are quite a few of us here who have inner perverts... or inner 12 year olds... or both. We won't tell.

Edited February 10, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[Boopsahoy]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Thank you for reminding me that not all of season 4 was a downer

Season 4 gets 5 stars just for Lazarus Rising.  :-)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Hee, don't worry @iRarelyWatchTV36.... remember there are quite a few of us here who have inner perverts... or inner 12 year olds... or both. We won't tell.

Phew.  That's a relief.

I have to admit I know that a good time was had around here, but I wasn't aware it involved spanking derrieres and name-calling.  :)

[AwesomO4000]

13 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

Season 4 gets 5 stars just for Lazarus Rising.  :-)

*Looks around warily* That one's not a favorite of mine. I have reasons, I swear. *Ducks in case of flying tomatoes.*

13 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I have to admit I know that a good time was had around here, but I wasn't aware it involved spanking derrieres and name-calling.  :)

Then you must not have spent any time over in the hangman thread. Back in it's heyday, yes, sometimes we even managed to make that naughty. I'm pretty sure spanking was involved at least once - pretty sure it was my fault, too. Not sure about the name calling. ; )

[Diane]

[catrox14]

WTF is that promo? No no no no no.

[catrox14]

Shit.

[SueB]

35 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

WTF is that promo? No no no no no.

I know.  I want to panic but am not going to go there just yet.  They better not permanently ruin Cas.  

[enaiowen]

That promo is not ok.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Then you must not have spent any time over in the hangman thread. Back in it's heyday, yes, sometimes we even managed to make that naughty. I'm pretty sure spanking was involved at least once - pretty sure it was my fault, too. Not sure about the name calling. ; )

Naughtier than slapping asses?  Wow, I might have to go check that out... for, you know, research purposes and being able to say I read a lot of the threads around here.  Even if you caused it, sounds like a spanking good time was had by most.  Have to admire a trouble-maker that can incite such fun. 

 

And so as to not keep being completely OT, looks like next week will be a big Cas!whump episode.

[Aeryn13]

Wasn`t it just yesterday the spoiler came out about a third Cas-centric ep in ep 19ish? So, I`m not too worried about the promo. I`m worried about the episode because Perez is writing it - urgh - but not on account of the promo. I know the spoiler for the last Cas-centric-one is that there will be a yet-unseen-iteration of the character but I doubt they`ll change vessels. This isn`t the kind of show where I come online the day after an episode airs, only to find producer interviews discussing why (one of) my favourite actor/character left the show without anything on the rumor mill before and I go "What the hell?" Yeah, other CW shows, I`m looking at you. 

Other than that, I find it almost comical when they try to drum up the "someone is dying" angst these days. No, they`re not. And even if they are, it isn`t for long. I`m sure Cas will be fine at the end of it. 

And in terms of Mary`s decision-making coming back to bite her (and everyone) in the ass, let me channel Nelson from the Simpsons: haha!

[Geordiegirl1967]

7 hours ago, enaiowen said:

That promo is not ok.

No it isn't, not least because it implies another Cas centric ep. I like Cas fine but I watch for Sam and Dean. I feel like Dabb and the current writing team are more interested in writing for Mary or BMOL or Cas or pretty much anyone who isn't Sam and Dean (though this weeks ep gets an exception).

Are you the enaiowen who used to post on the IMDb Board? If so 'hi'. I remember you as one of the (ever diminishing sadly) group of intelligent sensible posters.

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

I know.  I want to panic but am not going to go there just yet.  They better not permanently ruin Cas.  

I'm not worried yet, he supposedly has at least one more episode this season. I'm more annoyed they tried to play the "We're killing Cass" card, though. Seriously, that's been the speculation for a few years now and it never comes to fruition. 

11 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Then you must not have spent any time over in the hangman thread. Back in it's heyday, yes, sometimes we even managed to make that naughty. 

We need to revive that thread. It was good times.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Wasn`t it just yesterday the spoiler came out about a third Cas-centric ep in ep 19ish? So, I`m not too worried about the promo. I`m worried about the episode because Perez is writing it - urgh

You and me both. This one is definitely and w/o a doubt being DVRed. They're obviously going to change Cas' "iteration", so we know that he's not going to die for good and given that MC told us at a recent con that the character is going to be stronger than he should be or some such thing, this just reeks to me of Dabb doing something to the character that will likely alienate him from the brothers and/or make him more powerful and full of himself again as has been done in the past because redundant, old, moldy, and stale is the predominant word to describe Dabb's writing, storytelling, and showrunning so far, IMO.

Oh well, I'm just going to bask in the joy of this week's episode for a little while longer before I think of next week's. Maybe I'll even try not to think of it at all. That will likely work better for me.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

Considering Perez is writing next week, I'll be happy if Dean doesn't disappear half way through the episode with no explanation.

[Wayward Son]

I am also a part of the club that isn't particularly worried by Cas' fate next week since we know he is going to be in episodes 15 and 19 after this. However, while we are on the subject, I am worried about his fate later in the season for several reasons. Firstly, last weeks episode was the first truly Castiel centred episode since season six and now we are suddenly getting another two in the same season. As a Castiel fan, this seems a little too good to be true and an unusual turn of events, and I am worried they're treating us to a large dose of Cas in order to give him a proper goodbye in his final season.  Secondly, one of the key themes of Lily Saunders has Regrets is that Dean and Sam are more important to the world than Cas and he is willing to make sacrifices in order to ensure they survive. It can be argued that this is setting the stage for Castiel to sacrifice himself later in the season in order to ensure Sam and Dean stay alive. Thirdly, spoilers have revealed that episode nineteen will "focus on Cas in a way the first two haven't". Unless they're going to make it an episode purely devoted to Cas with Sam and Dean in one or two scenes just I really can't see how they intend to do this other than making it a Death's Door type episode. 

 

Also I've never understood the complaints Castiel or any other character are 'overshadowing the brothers'. They're in every single episode. Castiel, Crowley and the other recurring character are in half the seasons episodes at best. So Sam and Dean are still the main focus of the show. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

I did see a post on tumblr where someone said Misha alluded to already being signed for s13.    I still think they're going to make Cas into a reaper. 

[bearcatfan]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I did see a post on tumblr where someone said Misha alluded to already being signed for s13.    I still think they're going to make Cas into a reaper. 

If they make Cas into a reaper does that mean that Sam and Dean won't have to worry about dying anymore? I mean, WE know that they aren't going to die but THEY don't know that.

[catrox14]

8 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And so as to not keep being completely OT, looks like next week will be a big Cas!whump episode.

Isn't Supernatural pretty much character-whump central?

I swear, y'all. I'm trying my best to not believe my own fears about Cas' status this season but I don't like the sounds of what is coming.  It looked to me like Cas has the Darkness infection.  Those lines on his face look like what Sam and those other people had in s11. Could Amara be doing something to Cas because of killing Billie?

I don't think this episode will kill Cas because he's supposed to be in 12.16 but I fear this is really going to kill Castiel, the angel as we know him, forever.  Someone needs to talk me off my ledge.  

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

If they make Cas into a reaper does that mean that Sam and Dean won't have to worry about dying anymore? I mean, WE know that they aren't going to die but THEY don't know that.

If they go with Reaper!Cas I can see some drama being rung out of Cas having to make a choice to reap a Winchester or some horrible consequence arises if he doesn't. 

I had a thought that maybe  BMoL have put Cas on their hit list because he is a supernatural creature. I got to thinking about Mr. Ketch's comments about "Oh, I DO love angel" in a kind of flirty yet patronizing manner, calling Cas "Halo" and trying to order him around could be markers of the psychopath that Lady PleaseBeDead said he was. Mr. Ketch might get off on torturing angels.  

As to Misha signing for s13 that could be true and they could still kill him off in the first episode like Sera did in s7. :(.

(That "and" credit is looming for me)