Spoilers With Speculation

[Bobcatkitten]

I saw that at JIB. I think all he has done as the new character is walk down a street. Which would mean he hasn't really played it yet. But where does the flying fit in? Just a stunt we are making too much of? 

[Bergamot]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That could be of course. 

Almost certainly when he walks down the street in that outfit, he is not Dean. But since he will have no dialogue or anything, I guess Jensen could consider this not having a chance to really play the character yet. 

But, with as much as it was already spoiled and discussed as the Finale for this Season, there will be something in this Finale. I`m thinking Jensen uses semantics here. It would have been equally valid to say he hasn`t had a chance yet to play Demon!Dean as of the time of the Season 9 Finale and yet technically Demon!Dean was in it, as per "the eye opener".    

Yes, I agree.

Actually though, if first we see a Dean who is using some kind of powers to fight with, that would be a bonus for me!

Edited May 12, 2018 by Bergamot

[Aeryn13]

Quote

But where does the flying fit in? Just a stunt we are making too much of? 

No, him and Lucifer matrix-jump at each other. A human would be able to make a leap like that from a vantage point but you can see that Dean and Lucifer start up from level ground. Which Lucifer can do because of supernatural powers but Dean couldn`t as a mere human. It`s pretty clear in the scene that Dean has to be powered up somehow.

Michael could be somehow powering him up remotely. Stranger things have happened.  

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

No, him and Lucifer matrix-jump at each other. A human would be able to make a leap like that from a vantage point but you can see that Dean and Lucifer start up from level ground. Which Lucifer can do because of supernatural powers but Dean couldn`t as a mere human. It`s pretty clear in the scene that Dean has to be powered up somehow.

Michael could be somehow powering him up remotely. Stranger things have happened.  

Or it’s AU Michael Deansays yes too. He’s dying and dean agrees to be possessed, takes out Lucifer and Michael grows stronger in his true vessel so he takes off with Dean. 

I don’t think it’s going to be cage Michael because there is no time for it. 

As for it not fitting all the spoilers, Dabb doesn’t know what he’s talking about from one minute to the next. 

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I’m at a JIB and Jensen said he hasn’t had a chance to play the new character yet. 

This kind of throws all my theories out the window. 

Wait, what? What about the picture he tweeted? Is it something he filmed now for s14? I'm so confused.

[Aeryn13]

Dean has a bloody lip when AU!Michael is choking him in the bunker. Then in the promo pics he has a lip with some dried blood on it and appears very much Dean. This seems to be the scene where Lucifer is in the bunker, arguing with everyone. At this point, AU!Michael is likely to have been defeated, it makes the most sense if it was done by a duo of Lucifer and Jack. The Christian-Keyes-vessel will be gone and Dean is still Dean afterwards.

This will IMO take place no later than act 2 of the episode, so before halfway point. 

Then it`s all Lucifer as the Big Bad. And the big fight in the church. 

I`m thinking there will be some set up for cage!Michael in the episode. Like in the gas`n sip when everyone but Dean has to cover their ears - because obviously an angel is screaming at them. My guess is this will be cage!Michael communicating with Dean to warn him. Before AU!Michael shows up.

Maybe there will be more during the episode to set-up some later power-up of Dean. 

Then maybe they`ll have a little celebration. Only suddenly Dean vanishes and you see not!Dean walking down a street in a spiffy suit as the final

scene . Roll credits.

They can easily fit this all in with the way they write their Finales. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Aeryn13

[Myrelle]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

As for it not fitting all the spoilers, Dabb doesn’t know what he’s talking about from one minute to the next. 

Or he and everyone on the show could be conflating AUMichael with OurWorldMichael.

[Aeryn13]

Singer did say, though, it was "a character who fans have seen on the show many years ago". That is too specific to conflate the two Michaels. 

[Myrelle]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Singer did say, though, it was "a character who fans have seen on the show many years ago". That is too specific to conflate the two Michaels. 

*Fingers crossed*

I'm so friggin' nervous about this now.

Dean's face does look insane with rage when he's making that jump.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Dean's face does looks insane with rage when he's making that jump.

Could we be getting a demon!Dean or MoC!Dean redux.  Like maybe something triggers it? 

[mertensia]

He looks like a vampire jumping like that with his arms like that and the grimace. All he needs is a cape.

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Could we be getting a demon!Dean or MoC!Dean redux.  Like maybe something triggers it? 

I haven't studied the photos or clip enough to guess at the sequence of events, but I'm wondering if he goes all rage monster due to Luci beating the crap out of Sam. 

[Pondlass1]

There could be a residue of Demon Dean or MOC Dean still there. 

I'm finding all this speculation quite exciting.

[BoxManLocke]

28 minutes ago, mertensia said:

He looks like a vampire jumping like that with his arms like that and the grimace. All he needs is a cape.

They way they're trying to change how angels fight to try to make it look cool or high-budget or whatever is completely misguided. Nothing beats a well choreographed fist fight, and that's how angels fought before season 13. Not by flying around and sending balls of energy at each other like goddamn Dragon Ball characters.

 

Also, it's nice to be excited, but I hope next year the cast & crew don't spoil the hell out of the cliffhanger weeks in advance, especially when they know there will be set pictures and the most obvious answer to the speculations is the right one.

Jensen's comment about the season 9 finale cliffhanger being "eye-opening" is the kind of cheeky, smart hint that I like. It doesn't give anything away before you've seen the episode, but totally makes sense the moment the episode ends.

Edited May 12, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Bergamot]

42 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Singer did say, though, it was "a character who fans have seen on the show many years ago". That is too specific to conflate the two Michaels. 

Yes. Also, I find it hard to believe that AU Michael, who in the promo grabs Dean by the throat and is all Evil Megalomaniac with his "Now this world is MINE!", is going to change his clothes and then quietly and anonymously walk off down the street at the end of the episode. AU Michael is a character in himself, and that doesn't fit the character.

46 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

They can easily fit this all in with the way they write their Finales.

Oh yeah. And I have no doubt that if their plan is to bring back the original Michael, they will fit it in. A couple of clips in the "Then" sequence to remind us, a couple of minutes of dialogue to explain things, and they would be good to go! That would actually be pretty typical.

23 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm finding all this speculation quite exciting.

Me too! We just need more data though, another interview or picture or something!

[Aeryn13]

I think the previouslies will tell us at the latest.

Or they will say "fuck it" and spoil everything in the producer`s preview. 

Quote

Also, it's nice to be excited, but I hope next year the cast & crew don't spoil the hell out of the cliffhanger weeks in advance, 

I gotta say I didn`t mind being spoiled because as a Dean-fan, I`ve only been hanging on for that spoiler. The last two episodes were acceptable to me because I had hope for something better. Without that spoiler? Not so much.

[Jonesy]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:43 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Promo pics for the Finale  here

So Lucifer seems to make it to the bunker early on. And Jack looks less than pleased. He probably initially goes with Lucifer once the latter comes in with "this is how your friends betrayed me". 

It seems to be the starting point of the fight and it looks goofy as hell. It`s almost impossible to get a scene like that back to thrilling and suspenseful if the viewer is still laughing from the flying squirrel moment. Very bad call IMO. 

Disagree on starting point.

[BabySpinach]

Holy shit, guys. I know we've been speculating about Rowena opening the cage to release Michael, but I haven't heard anyone mention how Billie figures into this. Remember how Death just strolled down into the cage to get Sam's soul out, and how he had the ability to put up walls so he would stay sane? What if Billie is the one who gets Michael out and fixes whatever state he's in? That would take a much shorter run time to accomplish than getting Rowena to do it.

Given Jensen's remark that he hasn't really had a chance to play the character yet (aside from the closing shot, probably), then the Dean that's fighting Lucifer in the church might still be Dean. He gets some sort of power up that is temporary and maybe deadly. When(?) he wins, his body starts to fall apart from the inside. Billie comes along at the moment of his supposed death ("see you again, soon"), with Michael in tow to save his life (and maybe to save the angels in heaven as the "important work" Billie mentioned). Boom, Michael gets his true vessel and he leaves. It all fits!

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Holy shit, guys. I know we've been speculating about Rowena opening the cage to release Michael, but I haven't heard anyone mention how Billie figures into this. Remember how Death just strolled down into the cage to get Sam's soul out, and how he had the ability to put up walls so he would stay sane? What if Billie is the one who gets Michael out and fixes whatever state he's in? That would take a much shorter run time to accomplish than getting Rowena to do it.

Given Jensen's remark that he hasn't really had a chance to play the character yet (aside from the closing shot, probably), then the Dean that's fighting Lucifer in the church might still be Dean. He gets some sort of power up that is temporary and maybe deadly. When(?) he wins, his body starts to fall apart from the inside. Billie comes along at the moment of his supposed death ("see you again, soon"), with Michael in tow to save his life (and maybe to save the angels in heaven as the "important work" Billie mentioned). Boom, Michael gets his true vessel and he leaves. It all fits!

I can see this scenario in and of itself, but honestly, I'll be pissed (again) if they allow Billie to do what Chuck himself implied he couldn't do it in less than a age for the fight against Amara. I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

ETA for clarification. I just don't think they can have it both (all?) ways with Michael. Either Luci was lying and he's not a drooling shell of an archangel (which would make Chuck either a liar or not the omnipotent being his press agent sold us), or he wasn't, and Michael is far enough gone that God himself couldn't fix him. In that case, having Billie or Rowena heal him with a snap of their fingers is going to be an unbelievable ret-con for me. The only thing I could somewhat accept is that somehow being in his OTV allows for faster healing - but then why didn't Chuck think of that? Which leads right back to the circular Luci-was-lying merry-go-round.

Edited May 13, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Myrelle]

31 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

IA.

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

IA.

This plus AT plus the pics of him around people that don't seem to see him and that 1920s garb still brings me back to Death.

[Aeryn13]

So if it was a collaboration, that sounds like "hm, what do we want him to look like?" And not anything that previously was a distingushing look for the character. Michael would fit that bill. 

Death seems to go with "long black coat" and AU!Michael with camo.

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

 

Do we know that Billie is in this last episode? Although I guess an appearance by her could be one of those things they are keeping secret.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bergamot

[ukgirl71]

I'm going with Death being in there somehow too - the PeakyDean walk mirrors "Oh Death" too closely.  Well, either that or they really are jerking our collective chains.

[BoxManLocke]

Really curious to see how Dabb's going to fit all of that stuff in the finale. There's also all the refugees and Mary to deal with.

[Aeryn13]

I just find it funny that the pictures with the 20`s style outfit that led to so many speculations are probably a result of:

Costume designer:  "So what are you thinking for your new characters?"

Jensen:  "Hm, I`m really into that new show Peaky Blinders, maybe a 1920`s style suit?"

Costume designer:  "Works for me."

 

Because that`s pretty much what I`m getting from that tweet. And Jensen mentioning Peaky Blinders before.   

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I just find it funny that the pictures with the 20`s style outfit that led to so many speculations are probably a result of:

Costume designer:  "So what are you thinking for your new characters?"

Jensen:  "Hm, I`m really into that new show Peaky Blinders, maybe a 1920`s style suit?"

Costume designer:  "Works for me."

 

Because that`s pretty much what I`m getting from that tweet. And Jensen mentioning Peaky Blinders before.   

I think Jensen said as much, either at JIB or the last con. I can't find the tweet ATM.  ETA: Never mind - apparently my reading comprehension needs some work, lol. Sorry.

I'm still going with what/whoever he is finding that outfit in the bunker storage room after whatever happens with Dean happens.

Edited May 13, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Res]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I can see this scenario in and of itself, but honestly, I'll be pissed (again) if they allow Billie to do what Chuck himself implied he couldn't do it in less than a age for the fight against Amara. I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

ETA for clarification. I just don't think they can have it both (all?) ways with Michael. Either Luci was lying and he's not a drooling shell of an archangel (which would make Chuck either a liar or not the omnipotent being his press agent sold us), or he wasn't, and Michael is far enough gone that God himself couldn't fix him. In that case, having Billie or Rowena heal him with a snap of their fingers is going to be an unbelievable ret-con for me. The only thing I could somewhat accept is that somehow being in his OTV allows for faster healing - but then why didn't Chuck think of that? Which leads right back to the circular Luci-was-lying merry-go-round.

While Billie might be in the finale because of the "see ya later" remark and she could get Cage!Michael out. I would be seriously ticked if she cured his crazy though. I'd rather have Jensen play the crazy, which would make much more sense, IF Luci was telling the truth.

[SueB]

Michael has been alone without Lucifer for over one hundred years in Hell Time.  He could have simply regained his sanity or partially recovered.  Lucifer has been topside 15 months.  

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Michael has been alone without Lucifer for over one hundred years in Hell Time.  He could have simply regained his sanity or partially recovered.  Lucifer has been topside 15 months.  

So Lucifer bullied Michael into insanity ? Was that clearly stated at some point ?

[SueB]

23 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

So Lucifer bullied Michael into insanity ? Was that clearly stated at some point ?

Not at all.

 

In fact, I figure Michael being in the cage in the first place may have been enough to unhinge him.  Michael thought he was ‘the good son’ and yet he not only didn’t achieve his victory, he was locked away with Lucifer.  If there’s one consistent theme with the Archangels, it’s that they have ‘Daddy issues’.  I think it’s a reasonable leap that he may have come to the conclusion God LET him fail.  Let him be in that cage.  Which would mean his whole ‘good son’ mental construct pretty much crumbled.  And if Dad was okay with him being in that cage, does that mean he deserved to be there?  

 

Now add Lucifer seeing that weakness and just going into verbal attack mode in that way that Lucifer can do.  I think that would have at least made it harder for Michael to come to grips with what happened.  But with Lucifer silent, maybe Michael could work through his issues.  So, not that Lucifer broke him but that Lucifer added enough ‘noise’ that he couldn’t really self-heal.  

That’s  my speculation as to why he won’t be a drooling mess, no canon to say that it is true.  But IF God wasn’t lying and Michael was in no shape to help, then something had to change.  Or, we get an insane Michael.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by SueB

[BabySpinach]

19 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

So Lucifer bullied Michael into insanity ? Was that clearly stated at some point ?

I like to think that Lucifer actually didn't dare touch Michael because he knew he'd get his ass kicked. Maybe Michael retreated into himself to block out his annoying little brother and Lucifer interpreted that as insanity.

[SueB]

1 minute ago, BabySpinach said:

I like to think that Lucifer actually didn't dare touch Michael because he knew he'd get his ass kicked. Maybe Michael retreated into himself to block out his annoying little brother and Lucifer interpreted that as insanity.

Also a valid option. I’m not remotely wedded to my speculation.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by SueB

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:14 AM, ILoveReading said:

Or it’s AU Michael Deansays yes too. He’s dying and dean agrees to be possessed, takes out Lucifer and Michael grows stronger in his true vessel so he takes off with Dean. 

I don’t think it’s going to be cage Michael because there is no time for it. 

As for it not fitting all the spoilers, Dabb doesn’t know what he’s talking about from one minute to the next. 

Billie said  "See You Later Dean" in Funeralia... There is time for it because she can freeze time and escort him to Michael in spirit form as he lays dying to negotiate.  It is NOT AU Michael.

Dean would never say yes. It does not fit his tragic flavor m.o. at all and the writing does not support that in any, way, shape or form.  The only answer is Dean!Michael as in Cage Michael.

They have seeded 2 seasons with a myriad of clues including several in the last 2 episodes.

I wrote a long piece detailing the evidence for this which I believe will be posted on WFB tomorrow if anyone is interested.  It is a busy week obviously so ... but that is the eta Alice gave me.

19 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I like to think that Lucifer actually didn't dare touch Michael because he knew he'd get his ass kicked. Maybe Michael retreated into himself to block out his annoying little brother and Lucifer interpreted that as insanity.

I think the nonstop bad jokes and off key singing wss enough 

19 hours ago, SueB said:

Not at all.

 

In fact, I figure Michael being in the cage in the first place may have been enough to unhinge him.  Michael thought he was ‘the good son’ and yet he not only didn’t achieve his victory, he was locked away with Lucifer.  If there’s one consistent theme with the Archangels, it’s that they have ‘Daddy issues’.  I think it’s a reasonable leap that he may have come to the conclusion God LET him fail.  Let him be in that cage.  Which would mean his whole ‘good son’ mental construct pretty much crumbled.  And if Dad was okay with him being in that cage, does that mean he deserved to be there?  

 

Now add Lucifer seeing that weakness and just going into verbal attack mode in that way that Lucifer can do.  I think that would have at least made it harder for Michael to come to grips with what happened.  But with Lucifer silent, maybe Michael could work through his issues.  So, not that Lucifer broke him but that Lucifer added enough ‘noise’ that he couldn’t really self-heal.  

That’s  my speculation as to why he won’t be a drooling mess, no canon to say that it is true.  But IF God wasn’t lying and Michael was in no shape to help, then something had to change.  Or, we get an insane Michael.  

Also he may be similar ebough to Dean that failing at his responsibility would eat at him.

Dean remembers his failures.  The big ones especially.

[Castiels Cat]

21 hours ago, SueB said:

Michael has been alone without Lucifer for over one hundred years in Hell Time.  He could have simply regained his sanity or partially recovered.  Lucifer has been topside 15 months.  

My money is on him not being well. No one else is.  Every other angel is seriously messed up.  A part of me wonders if he is the reason. If somehow Dean praying or Jack waking Castiel awoke Michael too and he has been sernding out crazy on angel radio

Naomi was nuts and so was playground angel.

Everyone this season has a form of mental illness.  Especially Dean who may be communicated with Michael since he prayed too.

I hope they address this and resolve this next season.  They should since Dean's breakdown is part of his heroic tragic fall arc.  His healing will be part of the aftermath and redemption.

22 hours ago, Res said:

While Billie might be in the finale because of the "see ya later" remark and she could get Cage!Michael out. I would be seriously ticked if she cured his crazy though. I'd rather have Jensen play the crazy, which would make much more sense, IF Luci was telling the truth.

Luci was telling the truth in my opinion.   Per my other post.  Everybody is messed up in the head.  Michael has to be too.  Billie will take Dean to Michael and may ask for something in return to rebalance the natural order. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:27 AM, catrox14 said:

Wait, what? What about the picture he tweeted? Is it something he filmed now for s14? I'm so confused.

What picture?!!!

On 5/13/2018 at 2:11 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I think Jensen said as much, either at JIB or the last con. I can't find the tweet ATM.  ETA: Never mind - apparently my reading comprehension needs some work, lol. Sorry.

I'm still going with what/whoever he is finding that outfit in the bunker storage room after whatever happens with Dean happens.

I think you nailed it.

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:23 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I can see this scenario in and of itself, but honestly, I'll be pissed (again) if they allow Billie to do what Chuck himself implied he couldn't do it in less than a age for the fight against Amara. I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

ETA for clarification. I just don't think they can have it both (all?) ways with Michael. Either Luci was lying and he's not a drooling shell of an archangel (which would make Chuck either a liar or not the omnipotent being his press agent sold us), or he wasn't, and Michael is far enough gone that God himself couldn't fix him. In that case, having Billie or Rowena heal him with a snap of their fingers is going to be an unbelievable ret-con for me. The only thing I could somewhat accept is that somehow being in his OTV allows for faster healing - but then why didn't Chuck think of that? Which leads right back to the circular Luci-was-lying merry-go-round.

My spec... Billie implied Dean was needed to save the world from AU Apocalypse in AT which to me meant Dean!Michael.  She saw his death wish so she gave him a baby sitter. She says "See you later Dean in "Funeralia". She will see him in the finale.  4 things have happened that look like deliberate foreshadowing.  

1. Ridiculous Sam dies and is resurrected by Lucifer. SAM is otv for Lucifer but not in this Apocalypse.  Foreshadowing for Dean being resurrected by cage Michael who was name dropped in Exodus and described as being a studly good looking warrior type like Dean.

2. Bizarro Inglorious Bastards entire purpose was Cas vs Cas to foreshadow Michael vs Michael.

3. SAM has tried twice to get rid of Lucifer and failed.  Dean always has plan B when other people's plans fail per "Scoobynatural".

3. Dean screaming "Kill him Now." Dean wants him dead.  It is Cage Michael's job to end Lucifer in the Apocalypse over here and it is long overdue. Dean!Michael will take care of Lucifet.

Dean will be mortally injured and Billie will freeze time and escort his spirit to Michael to negotiate leading to Dean!Michael.

I wrote an article about the signs, portends, etc. Over two seasons that were seeded by the writing leading up to Thursday which should be posted on WFB Tuesday per Alice... It is a hectic week so... hopefully...

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:23 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I can see this scenario in and of itself, but honestly, I'll be pissed (again) if they allow Billie to do what Chuck himself implied he couldn't do it in less than a age for the fight against Amara. I do believe Billie/Death is going to play a part in whatever becomes of Dean though. There have been too many ominous moments between them this season.

ETA for clarification. I just don't think they can have it both (all?) ways with Michael. Either Luci was lying and he's not a drooling shell of an archangel (which would make Chuck either a liar or not the omnipotent being his press agent sold us), or he wasn't, and Michael is far enough gone that God himself couldn't fix him. In that case, having Billie or Rowena heal him with a snap of their fingers is going to be an unbelievable ret-con for me. The only thing I could somewhat accept is that somehow being in his OTV allows for faster healing - but then why didn't Chuck think of that? Which leads right back to the circular Luci-was-lying merry-go-round.

 

Chuck lies.  Michael could have been pissed.  Maybe Michael was mad that Chuck allowed the Winchesters to stop the Apocalypse and refused to help. They can say anything or ignore it.

I think he will be nuts though because everyone does have a mental health issue.

On 5/12/2018 at 9:06 AM, Pondlass1 said:

There could be a residue of Demon Dean or MOC Dean still there. 

I'm finding all this speculation quite exciting.

Me... I have never gotten over that Dean DRANK PHOENIX ASH AND DID NOT BECOME A PHOENIX.

from the ashes of the old Phoenix rises the new Phoenix.  

Shakes head. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/13/2018 at 9:48 AM, BabySpinach said:

Holy shit, guys. I know we've been speculating about Rowena opening the cage to release Michael, but I haven't heard anyone mention how Billie figures into this. Remember how Death just strolled down into the cage to get Sam's soul out, and how he had the ability to put up walls so he would stay sane? What if Billie is the one who gets Michael out and fixes whatever state he's in? That would take a much shorter run time to accomplish than getting Rowena to do it.

Given Jensen's remark that he hasn't really had a chance to play the character yet (aside from the closing shot, probably), then the Dean that's fighting Lucifer in the church might still be Dean. He gets some sort of power up that is temporary and maybe deadly. When(?) he wins, his body starts to fall apart from the inside. Billie comes along at the moment of his supposed death ("see you again, soon"), with Michael in tow to save his life (and maybe to save the angels in heaven as the "important work" Billie mentioned). Boom, Michael gets his true vessel and he leaves. It all fits!

Ever since Sam died and was resurrected by Lucifer I have totally been focused on Billie's the route for Dean!Michael.  I figure Dean is mortally wounded and she takes him to Michael as he lays dying...

Edited May 15, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[belbar]

42 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Ever since Sam died and was resurrected by Lucifer I have totally been focused on Nillie6as the route for Dean!Michael.  I figure Dean is mortally wounded and she takes him to Michael as he lays dying...

Not that I'm against it. But why would she need to do that? They both have been resurrected before without that kind of bizarre manoeuvre? using the dying body to resurrect someone through possession by and archangel? Isn't that a little too twisted?

If Billie needs Dean alive because he's supposed to be key in whatever is needed to save the world, just resurrect the guy. It wouldn't be a first in this show for sure. The only logical explenation for that would be IMO that the real one needed is Michael, and in that case why killing Dean in the first place? We're missing something here.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, belbar said:

Not that I'm against it. But why would she need to do that? They both have been resurrected before without that kind of bizarre manoeuvre? using the dying body to resurrect someone through possession by and archangel? Isn't that a little too twisted?

If Billie needs Dean alive because he's supposed to be key in whatever is needed to save the world, just resurrect the guy. It wouldn't be a first in this show for sure. The only logical explenation for that would be IMO that the real one needed is Michael, and in that case why killing Dean in the first place? We're missing something here.

Ummm....  Dean is mortally injured because Jack goes nuclear or AU Michael nearly kills him or Luci  nearly kills him... or he kills himself....  We know she will interact with him (Funeralia).  She escorts him to Michael because only Dean!Michael can defeat two archangels and Death sees the big picture (AT).  She told Dean she now sees the big picture. regarding him (AT). She told Dean she realizes he has work to do (AT).  The writers actually laid it all out in my opinion.  I do not see what is not working for you. 

Two archangels attack unexpectedly an occurrence they were unprepared for. There is no time to do the timely Rowena maneuver.  They are reacting on the defensive not prepared on the offensive.  It is a clusterFCK situation.  Dean is injured...

That is my speculation at any rate.  There is no other reason to shoehorn Sam dies/Sam lives and Billie into these last few episodes except for this.  And Billie can do it way faster than Rowena. Billie won't come unless Dean is dying.

 

I could be wrong. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

Castiel's Cat, ME,  wrote a rather long  piece about the road to the Apocalypse and Dean!Michael over seasons 12 and 13 for WFB  that is going up tonight if anyone is interested.  

Apparently the majority of ESG have left the site so Deangirls who have avoided the site should feel free to comment.i am a Deangirl and the piece is Deancentric but also Sampositive.

Me, CC, will most likely review the show next year for them.  

Anyhow I am sure it will generate comments since I seem to think about things differently than most viewers and it is pointedly Deancentric.  

Also I am Mary positive.  I liked what  Dabb did for some storylines.  I loved what he did for Dean. Over the last two seasons and thought they were totally Deancentric.  They had a plan and It was Apocalypse 2.0 and Dean!Michael. 

Feel free to stop over, read and comment if you are interested.

Thanks.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

Just now, Castiels Cat said:

Castiel's Cat, ME,  wrote a rather long  piece about the road to the Apocalypse and Dean!Michael over seasons 12 and 13 for WFB  that is going up tonight if anyone is interested.  

Apparently the majority of ESG have left the site so Deangirls who have avoided the site should feel free to comment.i am a Deangirl and the piece is Deancentric but also Sampositive.

Me, CC, will most likely review the show next year for them.  

Anyhow I am sure it will generate comments since I seem to think about things differently than most viewers and it is pointedly Deancentric.  

Also I am Mary positive.  I liked what  Dabb did for some storylines.  I loved what he did for Dean. Over the last two seasons and I

3 hours ago, belbar said:

Not that I'm against it. But why would she need to do that? They both have been resurrected before without that kind of bizarre manoeuvre? using the dying body to resurrect someone through possession by and archangel? Isn't that a little too twisted?

If Billie needs Dean alive because he's supposed to be key in whatever is needed to save the world, just resurrect the guy. It wouldn't be a first in this show for sure. The only logical explenation for that would be IMO that the real one needed is Michael, and in that case why killing Dean in the first place? We're missing something here.

thought they were totally Deancentric.  They had a plan and It was Apocalypse 2.0 and Dean!Michael. 

Feel free to stop over, read and comment if you are interested.

Thanks.

Death has never just resurrected  snyone on the show. It is against the natural order.  In season 1 Faith a reaper  was forced to resurrect by magic.

In season 2 Dean was resurrect by a reaper forced by Azazel as part of John's demon deal.

In season 13 Death did not resurrect him. She froze time to talk with him and unfrozen it allowing the injection to work.

Why would she resurrect him.  It is against the natural order.?!!! 

Escorting a soul anywhere she pleases is a diffeent matter altogether.

[belbar]

17 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I do not see what is not working for you. 

It's not a question of working or not for me. It's an speculation as good as any.

Bringing Michael back to fight AU Michael could work. I just don't see the time frame, but they can make up whatever reason they want for it. What I didn't see was the reason for Dean dying. Not a problem with that either. He'd be back in minutes too. I just don't see the point of killling him to bring him back so he can be Michael's vessel. Again too many things crammed in 42 min. but, once more, nothing new there either.

In fact I've never been against the idea of a possible Dean Michael. But there are so many loose ends that the closer we get to the end, the less clear I've got how they'll wrap it all in just one episode. That's all.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your theory.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, belbar said:

It's not a question of working or not for me. It's an speculation as good as any.

Bringing Michael back to fight AU Michael could work. I just don't see the time frame, but they can make up whatever reason they want for it. What I didn't see was the reason for Dean dying. Not a problem with that either. He'd be back in minutes too. I just don't see the point of killling him to bring him back so he can be Michael's vessel. Again too many things crammed in 42 min. but, once more, nothing new there either.

In fact I've never been against the idea of a possible Dean Michael. But there are so many loose ends that the closer we get to the end, the less clear I've got how they'll wrap it all in just one episode. That's all.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your theory.

I think they have pretty much set up Dean!Michael as a done deal.... loads of plot, subtext, foreshadowing, etc. Over two seasons. 

I agree about jam packing the finale. They always do.

[Castiels Cat]

FYI

My magnum opus on seasons 12 and 13 and the road to the Apocalypse and Dean!Michael. In my opinion they planned it for two plus seasons.

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/articles/articles-40/5-episode-related/21137-p-s-the-road-so-far-supernatural-much-ado-about-dean-and-dean-michael

REPLY

[BoxManLocke]

No new footage since Thursday, I thought they'd hype up the finale a lot more than that.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

No new footage since Thursday, I thought they'd hype up the finale a lot more than that.

It's a little weird, but they have left SO much resolution to these last 42 minutes  (More like 40 by the time the  Carry On montage and opening exposition is done) that there are pretty much going to have to be spoilers in whatever preview they do. 

I actually think since there is only one more day now, I'm going to avoid any clips that show up. 

[SueB]

48 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's a little weird, but they have left SO much resolution to these last 42 minutes  (More like 40 by the time the  Carry On montage and opening exposition is done) that there are pretty much going to have to be spoilers in whatever preview they do. 

I actually think since there is only one more day now, I'm going to avoid any clips that show up. 

I was thinking about what "HAS" to be resolved this season, and it's narrowing down (IMO) to just 'AU Michael's active campaign to control the world and Lucifer's campaign to get Jack to 'bond' with him'.

Reviewing the 'resolved' storylines (3 of 4 resolved in "Exodus"):
- Mary & Jack are back from the AU (happy about it and done with the AU is not the same thing)
- Ketch & Rowena are firmly on the redemption path (they could fall off the wagon at a moment's notice, but we could leave the season like that)
- Asmodeus died
- Gabriel came & went

Easy to leave til next year (and likely always intended to be resolved in S14):
- Heaven is in a precarious state
- Whatever happened to Sister Jo (if it was a random actress, we might not even care... but we are smarter than that.... she'll be back)

Likely to leave til next year and it's probably okay:
- Getting the AU people back to a Michael-free world to go fight the good fight

To be resolved:
- Neutralize AU Michael as actively trying to take over our world
- Deal with Lucifer's on-going campaign to corrupt Jack (even if Lucifer doesn't see it that way)

And I think we've seen enough of the previews to suggest that now they are (at a minimum) changing the status of AU Michael, Lucifer appears to have outted himself to Jack as not worthy, and there's a big "Dean"-ish/Lucifer "Flying Squirrel/Hidden Moose" battle coming.

[gonzosgirrl]

Even if it is 'only' the AU Michael situation that gets resolved (and there is no way I think this crew can resist cramming as much Lucifer facetime in as possible, so no way we won't get long minutes of Lucifer/Jack angst), that should take several episodes, not less than 40 minutes. So I still maintain that it will be tough to make an enticing 13x23 teaser/preview without giving away the plot.