Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

When in episode 5 is Castiel supposed to be coming back?

The reason I ask is because peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are something associated with Castiel. It was his favorite food when he was human, and so he really missed being able to enjoy them when he became an angel again (as an angel, he mostly just tastes the molecules.) That was something Castiel talked about with Sam, but I would suspect that Dean would know this also.*** It could be that Dean is making the sandwich for Jack... but maybe it's because Jack asks for one, potentially because he is having a connection with Castiel? Because I can't help but feel that somehow PBJ sandwich = Castiel in some way, and that is why Dean is making a PBJ sandwich.

But I could be wrong and it might just be for Jack.

*** Maybe from some time Dean and Cas interacted when Castiel was human.

Castiel likes PBJ's and he couldn't enjoy them after he got his grace back because it all tasted like molecules now. Sam never had the crust cut off his PBJs. So I'm guessing that Dean will make a PBJ for Jack and Sam as an homage to Cas but he'll cut the crusts off because homage to Mary.

MY hope is that it's Dean making one for himself and only himself. LOL

[AwesomO4000]

48 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

MY hope is that it's Dean making one for himself and only himself. LOL

Hee. I'd rather Dean make himself a nice burger. We know he makes great burgers, because even Sam stops a moment to make sure to take it with him.

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Hee. I'd rather Dean make himself a nice burger. We know he makes great burgers, because even Sam stops a moment to make sure to take it with him.

Fair point!

[gonzosgirrl]

I am cool with Dean coming around on Jack as he gets a handle on his grief and can be more objective (and after more than a few days have passed). I just don't want it to come as a very special lesson for dumb ol' Dean a la ThinMan.

[ILoveReading]

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am cool with Dean coming around on Jack as he gets a handle on his grief and can be more objective (and after more than a few days have passed). I just don't want it to come as a very special lesson for dumb ol' Dean a la ThinMan.

I wouldn't mind it if it was handled in a similar fashion to the way Dean came around on Lenore.  He saw with this own two eyes that she deserved a chance.  So if Dean can find common ground with Jack on both of them missing their moms, then its Dean coming around on his own, not because Sam told him too.

[MysteryGuest]

I'd love to see an actual conversation between Sam and Dean where they discuss the reality of Jack.  While I'll be happy with Dean realizing he's blaming Jack for things that weren't his fault, I would also like Sam to admit that he's a bit blinded by his own past, and isn't even allowing for the possibility that Jack could go dark side.  They need to move forward with the possibility that either one of those outcomes could become a reality, not just one, and try to be as prepared as possible for both.

Edited November 1, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[ILoveReading]

Im guessing this is supposed to be is the glass half full or half empty.

Strange there was no sneak peek

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Im guessing this is supposed to be is the glass half full or half empty.

Strange there was no sneak peek

I was thinking that or a reference to an Upside Down world with the reflection in the glass as a opposite mirror. What I don't get other than actor reasons, is how Castiel is in his meatsuit given they burned him in his hunter's funeral.  That's why I wonder if he's some other version of himself that is in the empty. I dunno. It's weird. 

[companionenvy]

Maybe the same way Lucifer was still in his Nick suit in the cage, despite having gone in while possessing Sam? Not that that ever made total sense, either. But I guess it could be a psychic projection of how Cas sees himself.

Maybe the better comparison would be to Dean in hell. Dean's body was in a grave, but he still looked like himself when we see him on Alistair's rack. 

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking that or a reference to an Upside Down world with the reflection in the glass as a opposite mirror. What I don't get other than actor reasons, is how Castiel is in his meatsuit given they burned him in his hunter's funeral.  That's why I wonder if he's some other version of himself that is in the empty. I dunno. It's weird. 

Eh, other state of being. What you see is projection of your mind, Just like Dean in Hell felt his body was being ripped apart and put back together over and over and over again, but his actual body was rotting topside and never was in Hell.

28 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Im guessing this is supposed to be is the glass half full or half empty.

Strange there was no sneak peek

Yeah, I was just thinking that was strange, but they've really been holding back on the Cass stuff, so maybe they just didn't want to spoil it?

As to the glass...the episode is called The Big Empty... .

Edited November 2, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[JanetWaldo]

On 10/31/2017 at 7:57 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I'd love to see an actual conversation between Sam and Dean where they discuss the reality of Jack.  While I'll be happy with Dean realizing he's blaming Jack for things that weren't his fault, I would also like Sam to admit that he's a bit blinded by his own past, and isn't even allowing for the possibility that Jack could go dark side.  They need to move forward with the possibility that either one of those outcomes could become a reality, not just one, and try to be as prepared as possible for both.

Haven't seen the latest ep, so this all may be a moot point, but I don't think Sam was not even allowing for the possibility that Jack could go dark side.  Hoping for the best does not preclude preparing for the worst.  (Of course, that's not saying that Sam has prepared for the worst.  Most likely, in this show, he has not.)  

[goldy]

Episode 13x07  

Title: War of the Worlds

OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS:  THE RACE IS ON TO FIND JACK – As Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) continue their search for Jack (Alexander Calvert), with Asmodeus (guest star Jeffrey Vincent Parise) hot on their trail, they stumble across a familiar foe. Meanwhile, Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino) manages to escape Michael’s (guest star Christian Keyes) grasp and finds himself an unlikely and mostly unwilling ally. The episode directed by Richard Speight, Jr. was written by Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming (#1307). Original airdate 11/23/2017.

 

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/162826766658/supernatural-season-13-spoiler-sheet

[SueB]

I really can't wait to have Dean see Cas.  Will he 'test' him (silver, etc...) or just go with 'it's Cas and cosmic entities bring him back'.  I'm guessing Sam and Dean are on the case alone when Cas comes to them next week.  And it's not until the next episode that they get back to the bunker.

Based on the 13.07 discussion, I think the boys get 9/10ths of ONE episode with TFW & Jack together before Jack goes missing.  *sigh*

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Meanwhile, Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino) manages to escape Michael’s (guest star Christian Keyes) grasp and finds himself an unlikely and mostly unwilling ally.

Which will be Cas. So that`s why he makes the deal with Lucifer, he probably hopes Lucifer can function as a scrying device to find Jack.  

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Which will be Cas. So that`s why he makes the deal with Lucifer, he probably hopes Lucifer can function as a scrying device to find Jack.  

Man, and this is just going to make Cas look stupid, which I kind of hope means that it's really doppelganger!Cas.

Assuming that it is OUR!Cas, why is he in his season 4 throwback outfit? Since Empty!Cas could see all of Cas' life and that Cas seems to only remember the bad parts maybe Empty!Cas has given Original Recipe Cas, with full powers to smite and teleport but it's only temporary. That he must return to the Empty after finds Jack, kills Lucifer and IF Jack has gone darkside, he takes him to the Empty with him to save humanity.

[SueB]

I think Cas is just out, no deal.  And I think he may have a factory reset when making matter out of empty.  

[DittyDotDot]

Moved from the bitter spoilers thread because there is no bitterness just speculation about the next episode and why Sam is sort of being not himself (and an idea as to who is babysitting Jack)...

Quote

 

Yeah, I forgot about the episode 6 reunion, but if Sam is not Sam then...

Wait, wait, maybe it's not Sam who is not Sam, but maybe Dean gets dosed by a djinn? That could explain Sam not acting like Sam and it could be Jack is on a hunt with all of them? 

ETA: This is the episode with Billie, right? That could also explain her not being dead if it's all in Dean's head?

 

[Jonesy]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

I think Cas is just out, no deal.  And I think he may have a factory reset when making matter out of empty.  

I agree with this--the entity in the Empty just wants to get back to sleep without a stubborn angel buzzing in its ear.  Cas is just back underneath the Earth's sun shining in his face.

[goldy]

Supernatural - Episode 13.05 - Advanced Thanatology - Promotional Photos 

[DittyDotDot]

Looks like a bit of an old-school creeper...can't wait!

[Wayward Son]

I'm really hoping since Cas is out of the empty his reunion with the boys will take place this week and it is only his reunion with Jack pushed back to episode 6! Yockey is my favourite of the new writers and I would love to see his take on a Dean / Sam / Cas reunion :) 

[catrox14]

JFC, Billie is BEAUTIFUL. I may have a little girl crush on her. LOL

22 minutes ago, goldy said:

Supernatural - Episode 13.05 - Advanced Thanatology - Promotional Photos 

Also, Sam has some L'oreal Hair going on LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

JFC, Billie is BEAUTIFUL. I may have a little girl crush on her. LOL

Also, Sam has some L'oreal Hair going on LOL

More giant Sam perspective, too. 

[DittyDotDot]

From The Big Empty thread...

53 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

If other angels wake up that would mean that Jack woke them up for some reason.  I am thinking the reason why Cas was in his S4 outfit is because he is going to be full powered S4  Apocalypse Castiel...at least I hope so.

That's my understanding, as well. Cass will be "healed" by this reforming, so I expect him to be full powered. It could be the "screw you" from the gatekeeper for not only waking him up, but also forcing him to give Cass his way is that he resets Cass's memories to that time too? I wouldn't like this, myself, but I could see the show going that route so he has to regain some of who he became throughout the season. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

More giant Sam perspective, too. 

Heh. Maybe the writers meant "Dean will be the lowest he has ever been this Season" literally. Maybe they are doing the reverse apple-box here. 

Still do not get how Billie features in. Her death was pretty random and nonsensical but all it seemed to do is give her a haircut.  

[Bessie]

8 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

It could be the "screw you" from the gatekeeper for not only waking him up, but also forcing him to give Cass his way is that he resets Cass's memories to that time too?

In that scene where he's going through cas' memories, were they all from after season 5? I think I saw Leviathan!Cas, but that's the only one I remember clearly. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Heh. Maybe the writers meant "Dean will be the lowest he has ever been this Season" literally. Maybe they are doing the reverse apple-box here. 

Still do not get how Billie features in. Her death was pretty random and nonsensical but all it seemed to do is give her a haircut.  

Maybe Ketch scavenged Billie's body and decided to resurrect her as an agent for the BMOL. I mean they did clean up that kill site and we never saw what happened to Billie's body.

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, Bessie said:

In that scene where he's going through cas' memories, were they all from after season 5? I think I saw Leviathan!Cas, but that's the only one I remember clearly. 

I think they showed all of his deaths. I remember seeing his murder by Lucifer, exploded by Lucifer in 5.22 (that fucker has killed Castiel twice now!) going into the lake as Leviathan!Cas and I think being killed by the reaper.

Actually, I'm wrong. They showed his death in s6, the Leviathan death. Metatron stealing his grace and him being killed by Lucifer in s12. Then Empty!Cas told him he was a festering disappointment.

Edited November 5, 2017 by catrox14
Wrong!

[DittyDotDot]

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Still do not get how Billie features in. Her death was pretty random and nonsensical but all it seemed to do is give her a haircut.  

I still maintain the episode will be either a dream/hallucination or an alternate universe of some sort and that Billie will not actually be undead as much as not real or something like that.

12 minutes ago, Bessie said:

In that scene where he's going through cas' memories, were they all from after season 5? I think I saw Leviathan!Cas, but that's the only one I remember clearly. 

I really can't remember. I remember Leviathan Cass and being exploded by Lucifer, I sort of wasn't paying attention after that.

[Bessie]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think they showed all of his deaths.

Uh oh. Are they bringing back Death in the form of Misha Collins? 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Bessie

[catrox14]

Just now, Bessie said:

Uh oh. Are they bringing back Death in the form of Misha Collins? 

I updated my post. I was wrong LOL. They didn't show his Death by Lucifer in 5.22.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I updated my post. I was wrong LOL. They didn't show his Death by Lucifer in 5.22.

Really? I remembered that too. Maybe I checked out sooner than I thought and just filled that in? ;)

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Really? I remembered that too. Maybe I checked out sooner than I thought and just filled that in? ;)

Well, now I'll have to look again! Here is the clip for perusal. LOL I don't see the 5.22 death

The visions start near the end around 4:00

Another reason I think it's the Empty Cas on Earth is that he's wearing that blue suit in the spoiler pics and I don't see Cas wearing that kind of outfit but I could see the Empty!Cas wearing something like that.

Edited November 5, 2017 by catrox14

[Wayward Son]

48 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, now I'll have to look again! Here is the clip for perusal. LOL I don't see the 5.22 death

The visions start near the end around 4:00

 

Another reason I think it's the Empty Cas on Earth is that he's wearing that blue suit in the spoiler pics and I don't see Cas wearing that kind of outfit but I could see the Empty!Cas wearing something like that.

I just watched and got the same as you! 

 

I just feel sorry for Cas that he thought the brothers cared enough about him to risk making a deal for while in reality Dean was just like “burn the body” and Sam didn’t exactly put up a fight. Poor Cas :( 

[ILoveReading]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I just watched and got the same as you! 

 

I just feel sorry for Cas that he thought the brothers cared enough about him to risk making a deal for while in reality Dean was just like “burn the body” and Sam didn’t exactly put up a fight. Poor Cas :( 

Will respond in Bitch/Jerk

[DittyDotDot]

49 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I just feel sorry for Cas that he thought the brothers cared enough about him to risk making a deal for while in reality Dean was just like “burn the body” and Sam didn’t exactly put up a fight. Poor Cas :( 

Dean asked God to bring them all back, including Cass, who else is there they could make a deal with to bring an angel back? I'm pretty sure if Dean knew the answer to that question, he'd have done it, though.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I just feel sorry for Cas that he thought the brothers cared enough about him to risk making a deal for while in reality Dean was just like “burn the body” and Sam didn’t exactly put up a fight. Poor Cas :( 

replying in the B v J thread

Edited November 5, 2017 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I just feel sorry for Cas that he thought the brothers cared enough about him to risk making a deal for while in reality Dean was just like “burn the body” and Sam didn’t exactly put up a fight. Poor Cas :( 

I agree with DittyDotDot...there was no deal to be made.  The only being who could bring back a dead archangel (as far as the Winchesters know) is God, and Dean tried praying to him right away.  They aren't aware of the Empty in any real way, and have no clue about the entity there.  Cas' wings were toast, so as far as the Winchesters know, there is no coming back from that.  Crowley, Rowena and Billie were also dead, so exactly who was going to help them?

[Jonesy]

17 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Dean asked God to bring them all back, including Cass, who else is there they could make a deal with to bring an angel back? I'm pretty sure if Dean knew the answer to that question, he'd have done it, though.

Yes Dean obviously has cared about Cas as has Sam in his own way--no reason to feel sorry for Cas.  And by the way that's real Cas back on Earth as Misha has verified when talking about his return.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Jakes

[Diane]

[catrox14]

So it's back to the crossroads for a demon deal.

I am speculating Crowley will answer the call in a new meatsuit because somehow he didn't really die in the AU, figured out a way to get back via a BMOL portal of some kind

OR Rowena was killed, went to Hell and is now a crossroads demon.

24 minutes ago, Diane said:

[auntvi]

I don’t usually say never, but if they bring Crowley back as a different actor I’ll never watch the show again. That would be too shitty!!

[ahrtee]

3 hours ago, auntvi said:

I don’t usually say never, but if they bring Crowley back as a different actor I’ll never watch the show again. That would be too shitty!!

Well, maybe they can have him jumping bodies (like Lucifer) while they negotiate with MS, then they can have him suddenly resurrected in his old body by some previously-never-heard-of trick.  

[MysteryGuest]

But if they parted ways with Mark S. because Crowley's story had run it's course, would they really bring the character back again, especially so soon, and with another actor?  I certainly hope they wouldn't do that.  I think there'd be a major fan uproar, and I'd be one of them.  Mark was very well liked, as was Crowley.  I think they'd get way too much backlash if they did that.  Here's hoping they know that, too.

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

More pics from Advanced Thanatology

from Screenspy.com

[Casseiopeia]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

More pics from Advanced Thanatology

from Screenspy.com

Things aren't looking so good for Dean are they?

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Things aren't looking so good for Dean are they?

Ooh!  It looks good and creepy!  I'm getting excited this week again!