Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

Don't you use that tone of eyebrow with me, Mister....

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Oh wow. I didn't know Jared had said that.  I knew there was a "if you kill him, would you kill me" but I didn't think it was being extended into Sam thinking it's hatred on Dean's part towards him if he wants to kill the Devil's spawn.   It is possible for Dean, or any other character, to truly believe that it's not a good idea for the devil's spawn to be out in the world which has absolutely nothing to do with how that character views Sam.  That is such a strawman argument. 

And SPN writers have a terrible habit of doing that: 

Like back in s4, they used a strawman that only TWO things could happen in saving a possessed person, the Hand of Ipecac saving the meatsuit vs demon knife which is harmful to the meatsuit, conveniently leaving out the option of standard old exorcism which they have been doing for years.

Same thing with Dean and Mary and him just wanting his mommy to make him sammiches. It was never played that Dean ever wanted that, or nor behaved like that's what he wanted but then at the end of 'The Raid' that's a factor in his anger with Mary instead of her poor treatment of them:  Strawman.

I'm sure there are many other strawmen arguments the show has used to create angst and it's never good. I hope that doesn't turn out to be a thing again.

Another question for the All Seasons thread for me. :)

[catrox14]

Hey wait. Wasn't Dean arrested for bank robbery in s2 in Nightshifter in Madison, Wisconsin? Or was that Milwaukee?

ETA: Or rather was on the spotlight when he was holding the hostage and is face was all over the news?

Edited August 18, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hey wait. Wasn't Dean arrested for bank robbery in s2 in Nightshifter in Madison, Wisconsin? Or was that Milwaukee?

ETA: Or rather was on the spotlight when he was holding the hostage and is face was all over the news?

Milwaukee :)

Madison probably rings a bell for a different reason ;)

Edited August 18, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Milwaukee :)

Madison probably rings a bell for a different reason ;)

LOL NO. I know the difference between Madison the werewolf and Madison, WI.  LOL

[RulerofallIsurvey]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's gotten too poofy around his head. Maybe he's having a humidity problem LOL. I thought s11 had nice layers. So long as we never see the s10 bob/Prince Valiant do.

More layers shorter layers would probably help.  I don't remember S11's hair so much.  I thought S12 (at least at the beginning) was very similar?  S10 is a definite NO.  :)  

@gonzosgirrl: that's probably the only ep I liked Sam's hair in S8.  :)

[Aeryn13]

Quote

The way that clip is staged it very much looks like Sam/Jack vs Dean.

From everything we heard this is probably gonna be the dynamic with Sam being the "nice Dad". And oh joy, gross eating humour. I`d happily ban all such scenes.

Is this episode 4? Do we know who is gonna write it? Just from clip and the "do not want" vibe it gives me, I would guess Perez.    

[ILoveReading]

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

From everything we heard this is probably gonna be the dynamic with Sam being the "nice Dad". And oh joy, gross eating humour. I`d happily ban all such scenes.

Is this episode 4? Do we know who is gonna write it? Just from clip and the "do not want" vibe it gives me, I would guess Perez.    

Sam also seems to be in what i call his lecture stance. 

I think its Glynn writing this ep.   It looks like they switched order, from Perez, Glynn, Yockey to Glynn, Yockey, Perez.  

[Aeryn13]

Glynn? Ah no, please don`t disappoint me. I`m down to only two writers as it is. 

If they switched the order, are we back to the curse of the 6th episode? I remember that being a thing once upon a time.

[mertensia]

Yep, Madison and Fitchburg, for that (Something Wicked) matter are in Dane County.

Madison was where Claire got turned into a werewolf last season.

I'm taking this as another shout-out to me.

[Wayward Son]

I don't think I saw this posted already?

 

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/supernatural-season-13-100-actress-guest-cw-series/

 

I don't watch the 100, or know the actress in general, so I've no real opinion on this. Just posting for others to see :)

[JanetWaldo]

On 8/17/2017 at 8:28 PM, ahrtee said:

Note that it's not illegal to lie about your military service, but IMO it does show something about his character. 

I've gotten pretty behind reading the comments, so I apologize for bringing this back up - especially if it brings up bad memories of Cole.  ;)  And for the OT (possibly) question: but I thought it was illegal to lie about your military service?  I can't believe that it's not!  Wow. 

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, JanetWaldo said:

I've gotten pretty behind reading the comments, so I apologize for bringing this back up - especially if it brings up bad memories of Cole.  ;)  And for the OT (possibly) question: but I thought it was illegal to lie about your military service?  I can't believe that it's not!  Wow. 

The "Stolen Valor Act" was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2012, but another one was passed that makes it a crime to lie about your military service *in order to benefit from it.*  Just bragging is considered "free speech".  

See  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-makes-lying-about-military-service-a-crime/

"Those who lie about military service or make false claims about receiving military medals with the intent of benefiting from those claims would be committing a crime under legislation passed by the House Wednesday.

The House's 410-3 vote on what is known as the Stolen Valor Act came less than three months after the Supreme Court struck down the original act on the grounds that it violated First Amendment free speech rights.

The new bill attempts to get around the court ruling by making clear that it applies only in cases where people lie about a military record with the aim of obtaining payment or other benefits."

[Aeryn13]

Wasn`t there a guy pretending to be some Master Seargant at Supernatural Cons couple years back? I`m not sure he just used it for attention or monetary gain also. I get why just bragging or even lying to make yourself look cool/badass wouldn`t be considered a crime, though. 

However, Cole possibly coming back hasn`t been confirmed so far, has it? Personally, I wouldn`t really mind. I don`t have much of an opinion either way on the character. I never minded that vendetta on Dean because at least it had a legitime backstory. Casting was always weird ,though, for someone who is supposed to be 10 years younger than Dean/Jensen. You saw the flashbacks of child!Cole and teenage!Dean and then you see the present versions and go "huh"? Some actors can and do play several years younger than their age - basically every teen show ever - but they roughly look the part. 

[JanetWaldo]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

The "Stolen Valor Act" was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2012, but another one was passed that makes it a crime to lie about your military service *in order to benefit from it.*  Just bragging is considered "free speech".  

See  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-makes-lying-about-military-service-a-crime/

 

I did not know that.  Thanks for the information!

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

However, Cole possibly coming back hasn`t been confirmed so far, has it? Personally, I wouldn`t really mind. I don`t have much of an opinion either way on the character. I never minded that vendetta on Dean because at least it had a legitime backstory. Casting was always weird ,though, for someone who is supposed to be 10 years younger than Dean/Jensen. You saw the flashbacks of child!Cole and teenage!Dean and then you see the present versions and go "huh"? Some actors can and do play several years younger than their age - basically every teen show ever - but they roughly look the part. 

I don't think it's been confirmed that Cole is coming back on the show.  I thought the vendetta against Dean made sense, but what didn't is that both guys worked with him after that, and especially after he kidnapped and tortured Sam.  The actor's age or looking the right age didn't really bother me so much; not as much as Mary looking older than she should bothered me last season.  If Cole did come back, I have no idea what they'd have him do.  Maybe it would be just to kill him off.  :) 

[DittyDotDot]

53 minutes ago, JanetWaldo said:

I don't think it's been confirmed that Cole is coming back on the show.

No, it's not confirmed Cole is back, just speculation based on the tweet posted up thread. I don't think I'd be pissed if Cole was back, but I was never a Cole enthusiast. I have no opinion of the actor outside of the job, but I wasn't wowed by him on the show. His character was pretty typical and basic, nothing that offended, but nothing that endeared, either. Not sure why they would bring him back since the character didn't seem to take, nor was the actor well-received within the fandom?

Edited August 21, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

I think it's Cole, I don't know WHY we needed him back, but I think he's back.  

Regarding claims of military service beyond what he actually did - it likely wouldn't pass the legal standards but it makes him a schmuck.  They did their homework in that article, the accusations look legit to me.  If the article gets him to stop talking about his own service, that works for me.  

[companionenvy]

I think the misfire with Cole was presenting him like he was some good guy without any real apology for or even acknowledgment of the fact that he kidnapped and tortured Sam -- who he had no beef with -- to get at Dean. Given that he thought Dean had killed his father without justification, I get the vendetta there, but that's no excuse for his treatment of Sam. Then, somehow, we're supposed to accept him as buddy-buddy with the boys the next time they meet up. It was just bad writing. But from the actor's tweet, it does look like he's coming back. 

[SueB]

Note: the actor also tweeted he was filming Saturday.  It's MINNCon this weekend. I don't know if J2 will work on Saturday. 

[catrox14]

Boys are filming today. Monday.

 

[catrox14]

Going into a family therapy office with Jackifer.  Guess this is their case. 

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

[gonzosgirrl]

There is a satisfying amount of Jensen (Dean?) in a plain black tee in these tweets.

[catrox14]

[catrox14]

LOOL. He's not wrong

[Pondlass1]

I work for a school board and one of our older schools was rented out to Disney who were making a movie.  Staff were allowed inside to watch filming which we initially thought would be exciting.  But it's just hours of crew setting up cameras and the same bit (kids running into auditorium) filmed over and over again with long breaks in between and everyone just standing about.

In one of their panels Ian and Paul (TVD) admitted they are driven home from set each day in separate cars as they need some alone time after hours & hours of filming a scene together.

This certainly isn't the case for J2 who continue to crack each other up and make a long day of filming into fun for everyone, even the crowd watching.

Thanks for posting!

[Aeryn13]

I dearly hope the family therapy thing is just undercover for a case or just questioning witnesses. And not that they actually go there with Jackifer. Hells to the no. That would be exactly the kind of cringeworthy stuff I imagined with the supposed "my two dads from hell". I especially do not want any "Dean is mean" therapy nonsense. 

Quote

I think the misfire with Cole was presenting him like he was some good guy without any real apology for or even acknowledgment of the fact that he kidnapped and tortured Sam -- who he had no beef with -- to get at Dean. Given that he thought Dean had killed his father without justification, I get the vendetta there, but that's no excuse for his treatment of Sam. 

Since that kind of stuff - working and even becoming friends with someone you formely had severe hostile relations with, up to and including torture - happens all the time on many shows I watch, this never bothered me. There are hardly ever apologies or acknowledgments afterwards so I guess I have become completely desensitized about it.

And that he took the "bystander brother" as collateral basically, it`s what I would expect someone in his place to do. Like Henrikson, he probably grouped them together and thought they were both serial killers and Sam probably had killed other people`s dads or mums. 

If someone who was after Sam in the wake of letting Lucifer out would have kidnapped/tortured Dean for info or to bring Sam to them, it would have made sense to me as well. 

And if they can have family counselling with Lucifer or work again with Metatron and no peep about past history, then the thing with Cole was small potatoes. I actually found it more surprising that Cole came around to work with them and/or rely on them, extend his trust. 

I think Cole was mostly supposed to be a tragic guy who didn`t have the full picture, not so much a good guy or bad guy. Maybe that`s why he didn`t ping my radar either on the positive or negative sense. I have a much harder time with characters who are supposed to be faux-awesome or writers` mouthpieces.  

[gonzosgirrl]

47 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I dearly hope the family therapy thing is just undercover for a case or just questioning witnesses. And not that they actually go there with Jackifer. Hells to the no. That would be exactly the kind of cringeworthy stuff I imagined with the supposed "my two dads from hell". I especially do not want any "Dean is mean" therapy nonsense. 

Since that kind of stuff - working and even becoming friends with someone you formely had severe hostile relations with, up to and including torture - happens all the time on many shows I watch, this never bothered me. There are hardly ever apologies or acknowledgments afterwards so I guess I have become completely desensitized about it.

And that he took the "bystander brother" as collateral basically, it`s what I would expect someone in his place to do. Like Henrikson, he probably grouped them together and thought they were both serial killers and Sam probably had killed other people`s dads or mums. 

If someone who was after Sam in the wake of letting Lucifer out would have kidnapped/tortured Dean for info or to bring Sam to them, it would have made sense to me as well. 

And if they can have family counselling with Lucifer or work again with Metatron and no peep about past history, then the thing with Cole was small potatoes. I actually found it more surprising that Cole came around to work with them and/or rely on them, extend his trust. 

I think Cole was mostly supposed to be a tragic guy who didn`t have the full picture, not so much a good guy or bad guy. Maybe that`s why he didn`t ping my radar either on the positive or negative sense. I have a much harder time with characters who are supposed to be faux-awesome or writers` mouthpieces.  

This. Oh, so much this. Lucifer tortured Sam in Hell. Metatron killed Dean. And there is barely an acknowledgement of either thing happening. Lets not forget Walt & Roy, who also murdered the both of them (Dean being the bystander here, killed only because they were afraid of him), were promised vengeance from Dean, and appeared back on screen like old pals. So yeah, them making nice with Cole doesn't even warrant a blip on the wtf-o-meter for me. Now him calling them Deano and Sammy - for that, they should stab him in the eye. :P

Also: Please, for the love of Chuck, no literal family therapy. Surely even this crew wouldn't go that far. Would they?

Edited August 22, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Now him calling them Deano and Sammy - for that, they should stab him in the eye. :P

Ahahaha, it`s probably a testament to my indifference that I thought "he called them, that? huh". I`m not disputing it at all but for the life of me, I have no recollection of it. And that was two Seasons ago. Meanwhile Misery was in Season 1 and I still want her to go out like Ramsay fucking Bolton. The only thing I remember about Cole is the wonderful asskicking demon!Dean gave him but that only because I loved it as a badass!Dean scene.   

[ILoveReading]

The Sammy and Dean-O thing never bothered me too much because the nickname Sammy lost any and all significance when Sam allowed Ruby to call him that. 

I thought the character was bland, and mostly forgettable, except for the scene @Aeryn13 mentioned.  I loved the way Demon Dean toyed with Cole.  It was a like a cat playing with his food.

What took me out of the scene was Cole's was the actor being older than Jensen.  I had a hard time suspending disbelief that he was only supposed to be 24.  He just didn't look it.  If he was supposed be following Dean so closely shouldn't he have known Dean was legally dead?  I think when they cast the actor they should have modified the back story a bit.

I'm hoping the family therapy thing will just be them interviewing someone for a case.  Although, I suspect we'll get some "insights" from the doctor about the dynamic between the Jack, Sam, and Dean. 

I just hope they avoid the Dean is jealous trope. 

[Casseiopeia]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This. Oh, so much this. Lucifer tortured Sam in Hell. Metatron killed Dean. And there is barely an acknowledgement of either thing happening. Lets not forget Walt & Roy, who also murdered the both of them (Dean being the bystander here, killed only because they were afraid of him), were promised vengeance from Dean, and appeared back on screen like old pals. So yeah, them making nice with Cole doesn't even warrant a blip on the wtf-o-meter for me. Now him calling them Deano and Sammy - for that, they should stab him in the eye. :P

Also: Please, for the love of Chuck, no literal family therapy. Surely even this crew wouldn't go that far. Would they?

"Also: Please, for the love of Chuck, no literal family therapy. Surely even this crew wouldn't go that far. Would they?"

Too late!  They already did that with God and Lucifer and then God and Amara in S11.  It didn't work then but that won't stop them from doubling down on a total failure....

[catrox14]

If I thought the show had half a brain MAYBE, they could actually have had that CPS woman from 12.4 have given Dean a number to a therapist, that HE , himself decided to seek out, but fat frakking chance that happens OR SWERVE, Dean decides to drag Sam to therapy for him overidentifying with Jackifer. Again, fat frakking chance.

[MysteryGuest]

I never had a problem with the premise of Cole, I just didn't like the actor.  There was something about how he portrayed the character that rubbed me the wrong way.  The Deano/Sammy stuff was a big part of it, but it just felt to me like he was acting too familiar with them.  They weren't friends, they'd just met, and not under very positive conditions.  I just didn't think it rang true.  And the supposed age difference was also an issue.  He certainly wasn't the worst character they ever had on the show, but he was just sort of nothing special.  Certainly not a character that anyone is clamoring to have brought back from what I can tell.

Watching those scenes posted above, I don't think the acting life would be for me.  All of that standing around, doing nothing.  It's long hours, but you actually work for only a few minutes or seconds at a time.  I think it would drive me nuts.  Based on that though, the editors of the world certainly deserve a lot of credit for turning these tiny snippets into a cohesive story.  

[gonzosgirrl]

18 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I never had a problem with the premise of Cole, I just didn't like the actor.  There was something about how he portrayed the character that rubbed me the wrong way.  The Deano/Sammy stuff was a big part of it, but it just felt to me like he was acting too familiar with them.  They weren't friends, they'd just met, and not under very positive conditions.  I just didn't think it rang true.  And the supposed age difference was also an issue.  He certainly wasn't the worst character they ever had on the show, but he was just sort of nothing special.  Certainly not a character that anyone is clamoring to have brought back from what I can tell.

Watching those scenes posted above, I don't think the acting life would be for me.  All of that standing around, doing nothing.  It's long hours, but you actually work for only a few minutes or seconds at a time.  I think it would drive me nuts.  Based on that though, the editors of the world certainly deserve a lot of credit for turning these tiny snippets into a cohesive story.  

I felt the nicknames were used as a sign of disdain and disrespect, more than familiarity. But as @Aeryn13 said, he did facilitate the awesome Demon Dean fight in 12x02 and my favourite DD line of all: Did you miss?

[SueB]

I exchanged notes with Jess, SHE thinks TAW (the actor who plays Cole) is not really there.  She thinks it bullshit because the picture of his apartment is from a website and there is no filming on Saturday.  I sure hope she's right.

[catrox14]

40 minutes ago, SueB said:

I exchanged notes with Jess, SHE thinks TAW (the actor who plays Cole) is not really there.  She thinks it bullshit because the picture of his apartment is from a website and there is no filming on Saturday.  I sure hope she's right.

Who is Jess?

[Diane]

http://tvline.com/2017/08/23/this-is-us-season-2-spoilers-jack-kid-young-flashback/

Question: Please tell me there’s a chance Supernatural will do the right thing and give us some Crowley in Season 13. —April
Ausiello: Mark Sheppard may’ve closed the door on his character’s return, but the show hasn’t. “We love Mark,” executive producer Andrew Dabb tells TVLine. “We think he’s awesome, and he’s been great on the show. At this point in time, [his potential return] is a little up in the air. Where we took Crowley, where he ended up, made sense for us in a lot of different ways. I would never write off anyone coming back on the show, but I’d be lying to you if I said there were plans to bring him back in, like, Episode 3.”

Question: I’m dying for a scoop on Supernatural‘s animated episode. Will we actually meet ‘toon versions of Sam and Dean? Spoil me crazy, please! —Cordell
Ausiello: At Comic-Con, Jensen Ackles teased that the installment is “very Scooby-Doo-esque,” but “slightly darker.” And, yes, the boys will definitely get animated. (Ackles’ reaction to his cartoon self? “‘Yes!’ How cool is that? I grew up watching Scooby-Doo. Now I’m, like, on it.”) And while executive producer Andrew Dabb says the hour is “about as far outside of the box as we get” in Season 13, there is another fun adventure in store for the Winchesters. “We’ve got an episode coming up after our midseason Error: Break shortcode syntax invalid, which we’re essentially titling ‘Stakes on a Train,'” Dabb shares. “It’s our version of a train heist with vampires.”

[catrox14]

Sigh....I'm tired of Dabb. Like quit screwing around with us about Crowley. Just stop it.

Quote

And while executive producer Andrew Dabb says the hour is “about as far outside of the box as we get” in Season 13, there is another fun adventure in store for the Winchesters. “We’ve got an episode coming up after our midseason break, which we’re essentially titling ‘Stakes on a Train,'” Dabb shares. “It’s our version of a train heist with vampires.”

The train thing sounds fun  but it would be more fun if it's a time travel to the past and they are cowboys on a train.  Also, why would Dean and Sam be on a train in the first place? Maybe it's a supposedly derelict train that vampires are using for a lair and it starts moving.  BUT PLEASE SHOW, I beg you, do not make it an actual ghost train, like the Racist Ghost truck. Please don't do it. LOL

[ILoveReading]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sigh....I'm tired of Dabb. Like quit screwing around with us about Crowley. Just stop it.

Yeah.  He needs to be honest.   Mark slammed the door on that long ago.

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The train thing sounds fun  but it would be more fun if it's a time travel to the past and they are cowboys on a train.  Also, why would Dean and Sam be on a train in the first place? Maybe it's a supposedly derelict train that vampires are using for a lair and it starts moving.  BUT PLEASE SHOW, I beg you, do not make it an actual ghost train, like the Racist Ghost truck. Please don't do it. LOL

I wonder if this is the ep Dabb mentioned at comic con that is similar to The Vessel but more ambitious.  I checked Tree Toppers's spoiler sheet and if it is ep 11 then it would be Perez or Yockey.  Please be Yockey or I'll have to hope Dean makes it to the train station on time, and this isn't another ep like The Raid.

Edited August 23, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Wayward Son]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Yeah.  He needs to be honest.   Mark slammed the door on that long ago.

I wonder if this is the ep Dabb mentioned at comic con that is similar to The Vessel but more ambitious.  I checked Tree Toppers's spoiler sheet and if it is ep 11 then it would be Perez or Yockey.  Please be Yockey or I'll have to hope Dean makes it to the train station on time, and this isn't another ep like The Raid.

Let's hope Dabb doesn't do the unthinkable and have Crowley return with a different actor / new vessel

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Let's hope Dabb doesn't do the unthinkable and have Crowley return with a different actor / new vessel

That would be something Dabb would do.  But I really hope he doesn't.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

The only hope I have is that Crowley was dead. He fritzed out in yellow fashion like all other demons who are dead really most sincerely dead. That said, I would not be the least bit surprised if they didn't recast him in a new meatsuot in the AU. I'm pretty sure if he does that the backlash will be immense.

Edited August 23, 2017 by catrox14

[ILoveReading]

From Spoiler TV

Supernatural - Episode 13.10 - Wayward Sisters
Supernatural - Episode 13.11 - The Midnight Train
Supernatural - Episode 13.12 - Various & Sundry Villains
 

So the Train ep is ep 11.  Fingers crossed for Yockey

[catrox14]

13.12 . I'm thinking that might be an AU episode.

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

That would be something Dabb would do.  But I really hope he doesn't.

I have no respect left for Dabb at all. His wishy-washy answers about Crowley just add to my disdain for him. I don't think even he would have the stones to re-cast Crowley.

[SueB]

16 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Who is Jess?

ibelieveinthelittletreetopper 

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Diane said:

http://tvline.com/2017/08/23/this-is-us-season-2-spoilers-jack-kid-young-flashback/

Question: Please tell me there’s a chance Supernatural will do the right thing and give us some Crowley in Season 13. —April
Ausiello: Mark Sheppard may’ve closed the door on his character’s return, but the show hasn’t. “We love Mark,” executive producer Andrew Dabb tells TVLine. “We think he’s awesome, and he’s been great on the show. At this point in time, [his potential return] is a little up in the air. Where we took Crowley, where he ended up, made sense for us in a lot of different ways. I would never write off anyone coming back on the show, but I’d be lying to you if I said there were plans to bring him back in, like, Episode 3.”

Question: I’m dying for a scoop on Supernatural‘s animated episode. Will we actually meet ‘toon versions of Sam and Dean? Spoil me crazy, please! —Cordell
Ausiello: At Comic-Con, Jensen Ackles teased that the installment is “very Scooby-Doo-esque,” but “slightly darker.” And, yes, the boys will definitely get animated. (Ackles’ reaction to his cartoon self? “‘Yes!’ How cool is that? I grew up watching Scooby-Doo. Now I’m, like, on it.”) And while executive producer Andrew Dabb says the hour is “about as far outside of the box as we get” in Season 13, there is another fun adventure in store for the Winchesters. “We’ve got an episode coming up after our midseason Error: Break shortcode syntax invalid, which we’re essentially titling ‘Stakes on a Train,'” Dabb shares. “It’s our version of a train heist with vampires.”

First, I don't think Dabb is being all that wishy-washy.  There has NEVER been a producer that completely wrote off the potential for someone to return.  We always have flashback potential.  Second, he SPECIFICALLY mentions Mark when the question is about Crowley.  So at this time I don't think he's thinking about replacing him.  Sheppard IS Crowley.  The only fun part of him going into the 'birthday girl' was because we knew we were getting original recipe Crowley back.  Mark definitely slammed the door on Jim Michaels.  Because Michaels was tone deaf in that moment.  And frankly, because he's Jim Michaels.  The same answer, given months later and with the "not anytime soon" caveat is far more palatable.  They don't have Mark on contract.  They haven't talked to Mark about coming back.  It's too SOON.  They want his re-appearance (IF they ever go there) to be an EVENT.  And even then, flashback would be much more likely as I agree with @catrox14, Crowley looks most sincerely dead.  Perhaps very late in S13 but more likely in a S14 -- presuming they have one.  And it would have to be WORTH IT to Mark.  As in a great script.  Nothing throw-away.  Mark's a professional.  If they gave him the "Special Guest Star Mark Shepard" treatment (which is at a higher pay scale), then perhaps he'd come back.  Had to be right circumstances.  But right now?  Not happening.  And so Dabb gave, IMO, the right answer.  He essentially said "not anytime soon".  That's accurate IMO.

 

"Stakes on a Train" - I'm in love with the title.  Seriously.  

[Boopsahoy]

42 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The only hope I have is that Crowley was dead. He fritzed out in yellow fashion like all other demons who are dead really most sincerely dead. That said, I would not be the least bit surprised if they didn't recast him in a new meatsuot in the AU. I'm pretty sure if he does that the backlash will be immense.

Mark S is the ONLY Crowley!