Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

This is from TVLine.

http://tvline.com/2017/03/27/may-sweeps-scorecard-2017-spoilers-deaths/

I think now this is why SPN's finale was moved to the 18th. If it stayed on Thursday the 25th it wouldn't fall into the Sweeps month.

Quote

 Lastly, keep in mind that, if it’s on the Scorecard, it occurs during May Sweeps, which this year begins Thursday, April 27 and ends Wednesday, May 24.

[ILoveReading]

This was posted by the director of the episode. 

[catrox14]

Oh that's good. What's MCU, I wonder? 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Oh that's good. What's MCU, I wonder? 

A fight between Mary and Ketch?  MCU= Mary close up?

[catrox14]

I dunno. It says "walk in MCU"...which sounded like a place to me. 

I'm also curious what LU stab in the lower right side of the panel means. Someone gets stabbed. 

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I dunno. It says "walk in MCU"...which sounded like a place to me. 

I'm also curious what LU stab in the lower right side of the panel means. Someone gets stabbed. 

It looks a little like this scene, posted by Sam Smith

I forget who is green and who is yellow

[rue721]

Quote

SECRETS AND LIES – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate a missing person’s case in a small town. The lead witness tells the Winchesters the attacker was a man with the head of a goat. Sam and Dean aren’t sure what to believe but when the witness goes missing they realize the town is hiding a dark secret. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by John Bring (#1218). Original airdate 4/13/2017.

I think that actually sounds pretty cool -- I like the goat head man.

Isn't that what Satan is supposed to look like? Maybe it's a town of satanists.

Very Urban Legend throwback-y sounding in any case, so right up my alley!

[SueB]

MCU -- well, my first thought is "Marvel Comic Universe". Ooops... my geek is showing.

Clearly MCU is a place.  It's reminiscent of when Dean punched Sam for taking Baby and running off on a case by himself with just a "I'll be back" note (7.03).

And yes, @catrox14 I think that's EXACTLY why they are ending on the 18th.  

As for the next episode spoiler... it could be "Hamlet" and the CW promo dudes would write: "Troubled son returns home after father's death." or, since it's Supernatural "Troubled son returns home after seeing his father's ghost say he was murdered."  Seriously, those dudes could buzz-kill Guardians of the Galaxy. 

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

MCU -- well, my first thought is "Marvel Comic Universe". Ooops... my geek is showing.

That's what I thought, too! LOL

[goldy]

Not sure what this means but they're filming episode 21 right now:

[auntvi]

Quote

Damn your love, damn your lies

Fleetwood Mac! From Rumours (1977)
 

Quote

 

"The Chain"
Listen to the wind blow, Watch the sun rise
Run in the shadows
Damn your love
Damn your lies

And if you don't love me now
You will never love me again
I can still hear you saying
You would never break the chain.

Listen to the wind blow
Down comes the night
Run in the shadows
Damn your love
Damn your lies

Break the silence
Damn the dark
Damn the light

And if you don't love me now
You will never love me again
I can still hear you saying
You would never break the chain.

Chain, keep us together
Running in the shadows

 

I love that song, hope they're using it in the episode. It would go well with a frantic ending. Definitely not happy music.

Edited March 28, 2017 by auntvi

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, goldy said:

Not sure what this means but they're filming episode 21 right now:

Other than the song lyrics, what I noticed right off was how much orange tape was on that ball...lots of Crowley?

[SueB]

Good catch DDD.  

With the Padababy girl born on March 17, I'm not sure if Jared is taking any extra time off. He worked most of last week.  

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

Good catch DDD.  

With the Padababy girl born on March 17, I'm not sure if Jared is taking any extra time off. He worked most of last week.  

I figure they're doing what I think they did with Jensen: probably trying to maximize his time and working everyone else's schedule around his as much as they can. It's harder now, though, they're getting to the end of the season and it's harder to write any of the main characters lite at this point. Maybe Jared just figures, work hard for a couple more weeks and he'll be home for a couple months straight?

[ILoveReading]

Is this the episode Eileen (The deaf hunter from Into The Mystic) was rumored to be in?

That's why I never believe that Jensen's limited time available was the reason why he didn't factor into The Raid.   The writers can usually manage to work around this issue when its Sam

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

That's why I never believe that Jensen's limited time available was the reason why he didn't factor into The Raid. The writers can usually manage to work around this issue when its Sam

Personally, I didn't think Jensen was all that lite in The Raid. They split Sam and Dean up and gave Jensen less action scenes, which take more time to film, as a way to maximize Jensen's shooting schedule. I think they're gonna do something similar with Jared here. Sam probably won't be part of the action much and I would also assume Sam will end up being separated from Dean at some point so Jensen will carry the more time-consuming action scenes. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I dunno. It says "walk in MCU"...which sounded like a place to me. 

I'm also curious what LU stab in the lower right side of the panel means. Someone gets stabbed. 

It says "3/4 walk into MCU" which I think is "medium close up"? Along those lines, I'm guessing "LU stab" would be "left upper stab"?

 

ETA: For clarity, I think the character is going from a 3/4 frame setup (head, torso, and partial leg) to a medium close up (head and upper torso) so we can see the facial cuts and bloody nose better. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

The only episode this year where I thought either J's absence was glaring was American Nightmare, when Dean just was inexplicably gone for 20 minutes out of 43. And by inexplicable, I mean not having to fanwank his absence.  That episode was filmed in August so paternity leave for Jensen wasn't a factor,  but maybe he needed time off for other reasons or it was just a standard Sam-centric episode. In any case, even non-Dean fans were like "Where's Dean?". So either the writer never wrote much Dean into the episode to begin with or the director/editor did a piss poor job of making that absence less obvious.

Contrast that with Stuck in the Middle, Family Feud which were filmed right before and after the twins were born, Dean was very much in the episodes and even in the Raid which was Sam-centric, Dean's presence was at least felt throughout the episodes.

Since Jared's baby was born on March 17, he's probably going to be a bit lite in 19 and maybe 20 BUT my caveat on that is that it's the run up to the final act of the season and I would be surprised for those absences to be as glaring as Dean's in American Nightmare. It's seems like they all learned a lesson in doing a better job of camoflauging the absences with Family Feud and The Raid.

25 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

ETA: For clarity, I think the character is going from a 3/4 frame setup (head, torso, and partial leg) to a medium close up (head and upper torso) so we can see the facial cuts and bloody nose better. 

Interesting. I'm curious why you read it that way. Have you worked in the industry to understand those codes etc? I'm not being snarky, I'm legitimately asking. 

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Interesting. I'm curious why you read it that way. Have you worked in the industry to understand those codes etc? I'm not being snarky, I'm legitimately asking. 

No, but I'm a photographer and since storyboards are basically visual notes on how to frame shots, it just seemed to make sense. TBH, it was the "3/4" that jumped out to me and made me think of it since the first drawing was a 3/4-frame shot. And, since the next shot was a close up, but not a full close up, "medium" was the only word I could think of that fit, hence MCU.

So, there you have it, a glimpse into the rationale of a irrational mind. I also could be totally wrong. ;)

Edited March 28, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

No, but I'm a photographer and since storyboards are basically visual notes on how to frame shots, it just seemed to make sense. TBH, it was the "3/4" that jumped out to me and made me think of it since the first drawing was a 3/4-frame shot. And, since the next shot was a close up, but not a full close up, "medium" was the only word I could think of that fit, hence MCU.

So, there you have it, a glimpse into the rationale of a irrational mind. I also could be totally wrong. ;)

Oh cool! That's interesting. Seems reasonable to me! Thanks for answering.

[Aeryn13]

Someone somewhere usually spreads the "so-and-so just flew home/left Vancouver" or "arrived in Vancouver" on twitter so it`s easy to guess when someone didn`t film much for a particular episode. I really heard nothing that would indicate any episode will be Sam-lite due to the birth of his daughter. He didn`t seem to miss more than Jensen. I think a lot of when they were both not working was covered with side characters, either Cas, Crowley, Lucifer or episodic guest stars.

Quote

The only episode this year where I thought either J's absence was glaring was American Nightmare, when Dean just was inexplicably gone for 20 minutes out of 43. 

I don`t think it`s really that different than the Raid or the last episode with the Hellhound. Wandering around with Ketch or Crowley in scenes that neither further the episodic plot nor the plot overall really is purposeless filler. If they had shown him wandering around with someone in American Nightmare, it would have been just the same. 

The last few episodes are very likely gonna be very Lucifer-and-spawn-plot-heavy. Unless they use the as-of-yet-unseen third Yellow Eyed Demon to make a connection with the BMOL. Unfortunately, I find either plot terribly boring, either by itself or in combination.  

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t think it`s really that different than the Raid or the last episode with the Hellhound. Wandering around with Ketch or Crowley in scenes that neither further the episodic plot nor the plot overall really is purposeless filler. If they had shown him wandering around with someone in American Nightmare, it would have been just the same. 

Im not saying I was particularly happy with how he was used but just addressing that they did a better job of making it less obvious that he was not in the ep. Personally I don't think he was ever intended to be in American Nightmare at all for story reasons. Ive not heard any thing to indicate Jensen wanted time off for the kids and usually there's some chatter on Twitter or Tumbler that he wasnt seen on set for says. But that was in August so maybe set reports were sparse. IMODeane was there to be upset about Mary and be at odds with Sam. And then just gone. The hellhound episode was just bad but I didn't think that had anything to do with Jensen's paternity time off. It was Sam centric on purpose for story reasons as was the raid but at least Dean had a good scene with Ketchup in The Raid.

[ILoveReading]

Looks like Sam and Dean have a new bestie

[Lemuria]

On 3/27/2017 at 7:46 PM, SueB said:

MCU -- well, my first thought is "Marvel Comic Universe". Ooops... my geek is showing.

Mine, too!  (I would be totally up for a Doctor Strange/Supernatural crossover.)

[catrox14]

Interesting conflicting reports on SPN filming today

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by catrox14

[auntvi]

So far I've seen just one tiny promo for ep. 16 (which has THE worst title this season).  Is there less promotion than usual for this episode? It just seems so quiet....

[ILoveReading]

9 minutes ago, auntvi said:

So far I've seen just one tiny promo for ep. 16 (which has THE worst title this season).  Is there less promotion than usual for this episode? It just seems so quiet....

If the CW is following its usual pattern we should get a sneak peek sometime today.

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, auntvi said:

So far I've seen just one tiny promo for ep. 16 (which has THE worst title this season).  Is there less promotion than usual for this episode? It just seems so quiet....

Heh, I was having a conversation with a friend recently where she said basically the same thing--about it being so quiet. I mentioned that I recalled having almost the same conversation with her last year around this time. And now all I can hear is: Okay, how is that not déja vu? ;)

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

If the CW is following its usual pattern we should get a sneak peek sometime today.

Hee! It's about damn time! ;)

[Diane]

1 minute ago, Diane said:

So they tell us this will be keying up something that they will be dealing with next year, ummm.

[Pondlass1]

Some kind of cure the BMOL has that turns out to have side effects maybe?

Oh, I love Dean when he's all macho and manful

[catrox14]

OH NO. Mick you shut your stupid pie hole.

Don't you DARE question Dean about his job. He is the best fucking hunter on the planet.  That's why you numbnuts are trying to recruit him, remember? That's not a particularly good sales technique there, Mickey boy.

 

19 minutes ago, Diane said:

So they tell us this will be keying up something that they will be dealing with next year, ummm

Bait and switch, Bait and switch. Whatever. Or it's a spinoff.

[Myrelle]

Claire as a werewolf, maybe. Like that other girl they allowed to live. And they can be friends so each won't be alone.  And more monster pals for The Winchesters just to make the Brits look wrong.  We could also be heading for Bloodlines V2 which means Dabb's original desire just on a smaller scale. "Good" vampires. "Good" Werewolves. Now we just need shifters.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Myrelle

[PAForrest]

15 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Claire as a werewolf, maybe. Like that other girl they allowed to live. And they can be friends so each won't be alone.  And more monster pals for The Winchesters just to make the Brits look wrong.  We could also be heading for Bloodlines V2 which means Dabb's original desire just on a smaller scale. "Good" vampires. "Good" Werewolves. Now we just need shifters.

Well, Bloodlines was always in Dabb's, er, blood, so to speak. So I wouldn't be surprised since I feel like that's where he's been heading all season anyway.

[Aeryn13]

I always expected it to go that way, however if he thinks he can sneak that in piece by piece instead of a backdoor Pilot, I think he will end up being disappointed. There is a reason even the highly opposed factions of this fandom can agree long enough to go "what the hell was that?" re: Bloodlines. Even the CW rather produced the Originals which had a similar premise but came from a different background and point of view at it.  

[trxr4kids]

Is Claire a fan favorite? I only read stuff here and she doesn't seem all that popular, not to say she's hated or anything. What's the criteria for determining who is a fan favorite I wonder.

[ahrtee]

Maybe they figure it'll fit into the CW model:  beautiful teenagers angsting and living together...and they fight monsters, besides!  

They can have Claire and what's'er name the werewolf, maybe bring in Alex as the vampire know-it-all, and maybe even recruit Krissy and her gang.  (They'll need a few more good-looking guys, too...)  

They can try to save freshly-turned teens and hunt the badguys, with occasional visits from Jody, Cas and the Winchesters.  (Maybe they can make Mary the house mom!...oy.)  

[Wayward Son]

19 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

Is Claire a fan favorite? I only read stuff here and she doesn't seem all that popular, not to say she's hated or anything. What's the criteria for determining who is a fan favorite I wonder.

As with everything there will be exceptions, but for the most part, the reactions to Claire I've seen has ranged from ambivalent at best to outright dislike at worst. I think a lot of fans aren't overly fond of the entitled teen act and the constant age shaming of the brothers (see trailer for the most recent example). 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Well, for once it isn`t Dean getting the "haha, old man" jab. Wouldn`t have expected this from any other writer but Glynn. Spreading it around at least makes it fair even though it still strikes me as odd. These guys (and older men) still have tons of teenage fans who don`t go "eww, grandpa". They look how they look. They are on the beautiful people network and yet it`s the only CW show I watch where they pretend differently.  

[Myrelle]

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, for once it isn`t Dean getting the "haha, old man" jab. Wouldn`t have expected this from any other writer but Glynn. Spreading it around at least makes it fair even though it still strikes me as odd. These guys (and older men) still have tons of teenage fans who don`t go "eww, grandpa". They look how they look. They are on the beautiful people network and yet it`s the only CW show I watch where they pretend differently.

I would have SO! wanted 38-year-old Dean when I was 18(17 even... ;-) )

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Maybe they figure it'll fit into the CW model:  beautiful teenagers angsting and living together...and they fight monsters, besides!  

They can have Claire and what's'er name the werewolf, maybe bring in Alex as the vampire know-it-all, and maybe even recruit Krissy and her gang.  (They'll need a few more good-looking guys, too...)  

They can try to save freshly-turned teens and hunt the badguys, with occasional visits from Jody, Cas and the Winchesters.  (Maybe they can make Mary the house mom!...oy.)  

Wayward Daughters might become a thing after all.  Jody and Donna with Mary, Alex, Claire, Krissy. Etc.

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, for once it isn`t Dean getting the "haha, old man" jab. Wouldn`t have expected this from any other writer but Glynn. Spreading it around at least makes it fair even though it still strikes me as odd. These guys (and older men) still have tons of teenage fans who don`t go "eww, grandpa". They look how they look. They are on the beautiful people network and yet it`s the only CW show I watch where they pretend differently.  

That was a surprise! I liked Sam's face because he's always laughed at Dean being called the old man, and now he's getting it too. It's still a stupid ageist thing that I hate and it doesn't endear me to the episode.

They definitely don't go "Ew, grandpa".  They go, "Ohhh, Daddy".   Yeah that kind of Daddy. LOL

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Wayward Daughters might become a thing after all.  Jody and Donna with Mary, Alex, Claire, Krissy. Etc.

I wouldn't mind that, except I'm pretty sure they'd be focusing on the teens, and Jody, Donna and/or Mary will just be in the background, dispensing advice or moral support.  I'm not interested in beautiful angsty teens.  

[ILoveReading]

For once the old joke isn't aimed at Dean.  (Thank you Meredith Glynn).  But it still seem odd and out of place.  Sam and Dean usually don't have trouble getting info or interviewing witnesses on cases.  I wish they would come up with other reasons than bring out the old jokes.  It makes me wonder if Dabb really does see the Winchesters as having to retire and let the next generation take over. 

Dean getting in Mick's face is good and the Dean I know and love.  I just hope he's not put back in this place by at the end of this episode since we know that Mick will be tagging along on other cases.

If Mick gets Claire infected why are they still giving these guys the time of Day?  Unless at the end they both decide that the Brits need to be sent packing and that is why they continue to work with them. 

The tease does sound like this is setting up for a backdoor pilot or another outright attempt at a spin off.  I think this was the episode where Michaels gave us the script tease with something about heading towards the future. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I wouldn't mind that, except I'm pretty sure they'd be focusing on the teens, and Jody, Donna and/or Mary will just be in the background, dispensing advice or moral support.  I'm not interested in beautiful angsty teens.  

In theory, it would fit with the CW brand. Beautiful teens/youngsters are their brand and I actually do believe a lot of the shows that have parents/older characters in them use those characters well and create beautiful relationships that way. However, they may say Claire is a fan favourite but I don`t think she has a really big following. Some characters are such hits, they just beg to have a spin-off created for them but "Wayward Daughters", I don`t know.  

Quote

Dean getting in Mick's face is good and the Dean I know and love.  I just hope he's not put back in this place by at the end of this episode since we know that Mick will be tagging along on other cases.

Agreed. I only have some hope because it`s Glynn writing. Otherwise, even the clip would make me despair. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

ome characters are such hits, they just beg to have a spin-off created for them but "Wayward Daughters", I don`t kn

 I would check out a Jody/Donna with a side of Mary (IF i don't totally loathe her by the end of the season)  Wayward Daughters. I don't think it Claire would bring in the viewers myself. Maybe bring in Ennis from Bloodlines(I liked him well enough) and the hunter Twins. I would say Bucky but he'd have to get some redemption first.  

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I would check out a Jody/Donna with a side of Mary (IF i don't totally loathe her by the end of the season)  Wayward Daughters. I don't think it Claire would bring in the viewers myself. Maybe bring in Ennis from Bloodlines(I liked him well enough) and the hunter Twins. I would say Bucky but he'd have to get some redemption first.  

How do you avoid making Mary look worse if you show her willing to act like a mom and dispense motherly advice to teenagers she barely knows when she won't give her own sons the time of day.

If there wasn't talk of 300eps I would almost think the show was ending next season the Dabb was setting up the Winchesters to retire

[SueB]

4 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

Is Claire a fan favorite? I only read stuff here and she doesn't seem all that popular, not to say she's hated or anything. What's the criteria for determining who is a fan favorite I wonder.

Well Claire IS always considered part of the "Wayward Daughters" concept that the fans have been asking about for 2+ years. Plus she's popular at conventions, the boys seem to really like her (they do the SM thing together and she apparently has taught them a few tricks), and she's now connected to Jodi.  

So, while I think her initial appearance as angsty teen with artful jean tears and braids had some eye-rolling, I think people looked at her more fondly after she softened towards Cas, bonded a bit with Dean, and then moved into Jodi's.  

Don't get me wrong, many still eye-roll... but from Singer's perspective... I can see "fan favorite" being applied.  He listens a lot to J2 and they see her do well at conventions.  

I'm also of the opinion that it's a little too early to get hopes up for Wayward Daughters BUT that is a very logical interpretation of Bob's hint. 

[rue721]

I like the Wayward Daughters idea in theory, but I don't think that Claire is an interesting enough character to actually pull her weight on that kind of team. She's not terrible, but she's simplistic and dull IMO.

And, it's awful to say so because she's so young, but I don't like the actress (as an actress, dunno anything about her as a person, lol). I thought it might just be that I don't like Claire, but then I saw the actress in that new HBO show and she was just as dry and milquetoast as ever in that, too. So I don't have much hope for the character growing on me at this point. YMMV.

Frankly, aside from Alex, I find all the characters actually associated with the Wayward Daughters idea pretty dry and milquetoast, though.

And maybe this is weird, but I don't like the law enforcement angle that having Jodi as a real lead would bring to a show. It's already weird enough to me that the Winchesters ally themselves with law enforcement so much nowadays, because they're essentially criminals, vigilantes at best -- making a new show that has *lead characters* in law enforcement would cross the line into nonsensical and just totally out of keeping with the nature of SPN's "universe," to me. YMMV also.

And I do like Alex, but her "thing" is that she's trying to be an All-American girl and get back the life that vampire goon squad took from her, so I would be sad for her if she became a hunter.

There have been lots and lots of interesting characters on this show that I would be interested in seeing more of and that could potentially carry plotlines of their own if not an actual spinoff, but unfortunately, they've pretty much all been killed already. Why. Although death isn't forever on this show, so I continue to hold out hope, I guess!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, for once it isn`t Dean getting the "haha, old man" jab. Wouldn`t have expected this from any other writer but Glynn. Spreading it around at least makes it fair even though it still strikes me as odd. These guys (and older men) still have tons of teenage fans who don`t go "eww, grandpa". They look how they look. 

Yeah, okay - but if you actually put yourself in Claire's position, SAM isn't a beautiful actor, he's just Sam.  And he is kind of old - at least to a - what?  Nineteen year old?  I remember (back in the day) there was a difference between finding 'actors' cute, and 'real people'.  There's a disconnect there with fantasy versus reality.  To Claire, with in the context of the show, neither Dean nor Sam is the actor portraying them.  So I can believe the "old man" jab as being pretty accurate.   

[MysteryGuest]

I'm not convinced they're hinting at any spinoff necessarily, just that some part of this next episode will carry on through next season.  I'd assume BMOL, but maybe it will be something having to do with Claire.  Having her become a monster just seems redundant though, since they already have Garth, but who knows.  

I'm interested in what happens with this show, not any new show ideas they might have, so if they're really playing up some spinoff idea, that would just piss me off.  How about if we make this show interesting first!  They have to be smart enough to know that most fans tune in for Sam and Dean with some Cas and Crowley on the side.  Why screw with a winning formula?

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Yeah, okay - but if you actually put yourself in Claire's position, SAM isn't a beautiful actor, he's just Sam.  And he is kind of old - at least to a - what?  Nineteen year old?  I remember (back in the day) there was a difference between finding 'actors' cute, and 'real people'.  There's a disconnect there with fantasy versus reality.  To Claire, with in the context of the show, neither Dean nor Sam is the actor portraying them.  So I can believe the "old man" jab as being pretty accurate.   

I don't understand this comment.

The show itself acknowledges the attractiveness of Sam and Dean Winchester. Whether they look Jared and Jensen is irrelevant because within the SPN verse, Sam and especially Dean's looks are commented on by OTHER CHARACTERS IN THE SHOW.  Sam and Dean Winchester are good looking men. Objectively, most people who meet Sam Winchester (the character)  would think he is a good looking guy who doesn't look 35. I'm not talking about sexual attractiveness but appearance. Claire doesn't have to find him attractive to think 'Hey this sort of big brother of mine is a good looking guy". She can joke about him being old because brother/sister like banter but for her to say that Sam Winchester can't talk to teenagers because he's old is absurd.