Rory and Logan

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's not that I disliked Logan per se.  I disliked the Rory that I saw around Logan.  I'm a Jess girl, and a Rory/Jess girl, so that's my bias.  But I don't even see Rory as a real person around Logan.  It's hard to explain, but I'll rewatch those seasons soon.  Logan is fine on his own and I think with a better actor for Matt to play against or a more independent, challenging character for him to date maybe I'd like such a coupling.

 

Rory would say all the reasons she liked Logan.  But I didn't really see it.  Whereas Logan seemed really in love with Rory all the time.  Maybe Alexis didn't feel much chemistry with Matt and didn't know how to show it.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Athena]

I didn't like the Ace nickname either to be honest. I also agree that as annoying as Logan and his friends were in the beginning, he did push and get Rory to be more involved at Yale. I think in that way he challenged her (but not in the same way Jess did and would) to get out of her comfort zone. She was a college student and that is the time she should have had some fun and did some silly and stupid things, but she should have learned from it (she didn't really). Logan was the right college boyfriend and I think he went beyond that too because he matured very quickly towards the end.

 

Maybe Alexis didn't feel much chemistry with Matt and didn't know how to show it.

 

I feel Alexis has about the same level with Jared that she had with Matt. I'd say Matt edges it for me, but I actually liked Matt's acting and Logan so that's my bias. I don't feel Alexis is a very strong actor and I find that acting talent often does correlate to chemistry. I do think she had the best chemistry with Milo perhaps because they were together and I think he had a lot to do with it having seen him on "Heroes". Similarly, she has some OK chemistry with her now husband Vincent Kartheiser when they met on "Mad Men," but I suspect Vincent did most of the lifting there too.

[BkWurm1]

But I don't even see Rory as a real person around Logan.

Yes, yes, so much yes!

Maybe it's not fair to say someone was playing a part when they did it for so long, but Rory stopped feeling like real Rory during her time with Logan, not all the time, but soooo very often. Not blaming him, just don't think he was a good long term fit for her best self.

[junienmomo]

From the first time I heard Logan utter the name "Ace" I was transported back to the days of "His Girl Friday."

Love that name. That's a movie to watch if you're missing the rapid dialog of GG, and want to watch one of GG's inspirations.

 

I figure Alexis was chosen for her physical compatibility to Lorelai. She and her baby face would have been high on the list even if Lorelai had been played by Sherilyn Fenn. I can work with that, having seen enough "good" actors who didn't look at all like their families.

[BkWurm1]

From the first time I heard Logan utter the name "Ace" I was transported back to the days of "His Girl Friday."

Love that name. That's a movie to watch if you're missing the rapid dialog of GG, and want to watch one of GG's inspirations.

 

I'll be honest.  I've never minded the nickname.  Maybe this is why.  :)

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think the nickname is pretty cute, myself.  A guy picking a nickname based on a woman's profession/dream career (rather than something typical like honey, baby, sweetie, or rather than about her looks, etc.)  That's cool.

[Taryn74]

Heh, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who finds Ace endearing rather than annoying.

[Splash]

I'm a Rory/Logan fan and preferred their relationship over the ones she had with Dean and Jess.  Rory and Logan more on equal footing than she was with any of her other boyfriends and I think that Logan understood that more than Rory did.  I think that Logan proposed, not because he particularly wanted to get married, but because it was "the thing you did" after graduation when you wanted to make a stronger commitment than "college boyfriend/girlfriend".  I honestly don't think Logan wanted Rory to marry him, settle down in California, and be a corporate wife; I think he just wanted to let her know that he was fully committed to their relationship and it wasn't just a college relationship.

 

I liked her relationship with Logan because he understood what it would mean for their relationship when it came to her career.  Because of his father, he would have become accustomed to the weird hours, so he would have an easier time getting used her being gone.  He also had no problem with calling her out when she was she was getting too much inside her own head.  Yes, he did go about it the wrong way at times and came off as a jerk, but the way I see it, Rory had enough people in her life that were more than willing to coddle her and treat her like an ultra special snowflake.  

 

I don't know if I'm explaining how I feel correctly, but I liked that he didn't treat her like she was a girlfriend that he was "slumming with" in college.  Yes, he might have been amused because she wasn't used to it, but the fact of the matter is that her great-grandmother was rich, her grandparents were rich, her father was rich, and eventually, she will come into a ton of money.

 

Out of the three major relationships we were shown, I think that Logan and Rory were the best match and were the most likely to have made it into adulthood.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I think that Logan proposed, not because he particularly wanted to get married, but because it was "the thing you did" after graduation when you wanted to make a stronger commitment than "college boyfriend/girlfriend".  I honestly don't think Logan wanted Rory to marry him, settle down in California, and be a corporate wife; I think he just wanted to let her know that he was fully committed to their relationship and it wasn't just a college relationship.

 

I bolded that part of the statement because I don't agree with it. I do agree that he was committed to Rory, and because he loved her, he wanted to get married. Not because it was the thing to do, but because he was ready. What he didn't realize was that Rory wanted something else at that time in her life. She wasn't ready. She did love him, no doubt, but she wanted to do something other than get married and try to fit into his plans. She wanted to make her own decisions about where she would work and live. As for Logan and Rory long term, it takes more than having a lot of money in common to make a marriage work. 

 

I don't think it is fair to compare the three relationships as Rory experienced them at different times in her life. 

Edited February 9, 2015 by Aloeonatable

[ghoulina]

I don't think it is fair to compare the three relationships as Rory experienced them at different times in her life.

 

This is a very good point. I have always felt Jess was best for her, but just not at that time. He was too messed up, and she hadn't had enough life experience yet. 

 

I also agree with you that Logan's proposal WAS very serious. He had thought of the avocado tree and everything. He was really picturing a whole new life for them out in California, and Rory simply hadn't figured out, for herself, what the future held. Sure, she could have found a journalist job out there. But she didn't just want A job. She wanted to find something, on her own terms, that was really what she wanted.

[ShellSeeker]

I, in no way, blame Logan for Rory quitting Yale. That was all her. And, I think when she first did it, he assumed she'd get over that stage fairly quickly and be back in the fall. Once that time came and went, and she was all wrapped up in her DAR parties and what-not, I think it DID bother him.Logan specifically fell for Rory because she was the antithesis of all the girls he'd been around his entire life. But he just wasn't the type to challenge her like that. He was going to wait it out, whereas Jess was the type to say - "Hey, what are you doing? This isn't like you!" I'm not saying either way is better than the other, they were just very different. 

 

Yeah, this sums it up quite nicely. I'm just starting Season 7, but I know in general what's going to happen. From what I've seen of Logan, he was first presented as the rich, a-hole frat boy type, but then it turned out that there were more layers to his character than there appeared to be at first, and I like him much more than I thought I would. He was pretty dismayed that Rory seemed content to keep living in the pool house being an event planner for the DAR. I think the reason he didn't push her was that, like you said, it wasn't his style to confront her about it, and also, he wasn't sure what to do or say to get her to snap out of it.

 

His d-bag side did tend to come out when he was with his d-bag friends, and Rory putting up with them doesn't quite ring true for me sometimes. But I did like it when she told them off when she went to see Logan at the hospital, and also when she called his dad and told him to pull his head out of his ass and get down there to see his son.

 

One aspect of the Rory/Logan relationship I did really like is when Rory told him that she couldn't do the casual dating thing. She tried it, and found that it wasn't for her. So instead of just passively hoping that he'd want to start being exclusive, and then getting upset when he didn't, she told him that she wasn't upset with him, but just didn't want to continue what they'd been doing. I really liked that she spoke up and put herself and her own feelings first. Of course, it ended up that he agreed to start dating her exclusively, but she didn't know that would be the outcome when she initiated the conversation.

[Gulftastic]

Couldn't stand him. Boo hoo, poor little rich boy and his stupid friends. Rory became an idiot around hi. Well, more of an idiot.

[Artsda]

I agree that Rory became an idiot around him. I just recently finished and caught up on the Logan era, Logan himself as a character I thought grew a lot from when we first met the drunk rich kid looking down at Marty to the leaving his father's company and moving out to Seattle. Logan grew, Rory seemed to not, she became an idiot around him, Rory with Logan I hated. Stealing a yacht just because his daddy said she couldn't do something? She still has a criminal record which should be an issue with her trying to get employment.  Rory as a 16 year old had more sense, she was told she may not catch up at Chilton and she buckled down to achieve her goals. She freaked out over running out of Dosey's with baking soda and not paying for it. The Rory she was with Logan was just moronic. All the parties, the drinking, living off him, letting him treat other beneath him and not speaking up,  the trying to live the rich crowd life with them. She may have seen Lane twice while dating Logan, and the person Rory just became wasn't likeable. 

 

I preferred Logan and even Colin and Finn compared to her. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Artsda

[Aloeonatable]

Rory was often unlikeable with all of her boyfriends. She was very passive/aggressive when it came to the guys. Does anyone think it had to do with her not growing up with a father who was a consistent presence in her daily life? It's almost like she would be afraid of not pleasing the guy in her life for fear that they might get angry or leave. 

[Artsda]

It's possibly, she had daddy issues so she didn't speak up when she should and let them get away with everything. That she looked for Christopher's in her boyfriends.  With Jess she ignored all his illegal activities, his treating her badly, condoned his behavior and never spoke up about how he treated her and others. With Logan it was the same, he stole from her own grandparents and she just laughed and wasn't going to speak up or do anything even with Emily blaming the innocent maid. His rich brat behavior she defended and found cute. With Dean the first 2 go-rounds he was fine, the 3rd she ignored he was married and taken. 

 

Logan and Christopher was kicked out of all the same private/boarding schools. Lorelai said Dean looked like Christopher, which I saw no similarities in their appearance at all. lol

 

In the end though, if she really was so scared of them leaving I think she'd have married Logan instead she knew it wasn't right and he wasn't the right one. She took the road with an uncertain path, however breaking up was more Logan's doing. She could have agreed to marry him to keep him, if she couldn't let him leave.

 

With Dean he had to break up with her first, while she mooned over Jess, having feelings for him while stringing Dean along. The 2nd time he had to do it again with her already changed being around Logan/Colin/Finn. 

With Jess he walked out and left her.

With Logan, he left because she wouldn't marry him. 

 

She never once ended a relationship. I think the one time she did when Logan slept with all the bridesmaids during their "break" or not break, she took him back in minutes.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Artsda

[readster]

 

It's possibly, she had daddy issues so she didn't speak up when she should and let them get away with everything. That she looked for Christopher's in her boyfriends.  With Jess she ignored all his illegal activities, his treating her badly, condoned his behavior and never spoke up about how he treated her and others. With Logan it was the same, he stole from her own grandparents and she just laughed and wasn't going to speak up or do anything even with Emily blaming the innocent maid. His rich brat behavior she defended and found cute. With Dean the first 2 go-rounds he was fine, the 3rd she ignored he was married and taken.

 

 I don't know if you call it "daddy issues", I do agree, all of the boys that Rory dated had a lot of Chris's attributes in one way or another. The only ones who did were Tristan and Marty and with Marty, he was in her "friend zone" and with Tristan, she was not into him. I do agree, she never broke up with them, they all left her or broke up with her. Even with Dean round 3, he was the one who called it because he couldn't fit into the Gilmore Rich World. If anyone taught Rory bad boyfriend skills, that falls with Lorelai, she pined over Chris half the time and when it came to anything that she didn't like, she left or made sure her relationships with her boyfriends made them want to break up with her. Like mother, like daughter. 

[moonb]

Interestingly, Lorelai and Rory were horrible with men in different ways: Lorelai usually dumped them abruptly(Max, Jason), or in Luke's and even Christopher's case, crossing some point of no return. Rory was more caught up in being the "nice girl" who wouldn't break things off, letting them become unbearable. In that she might not have grown beyond season 2 Rory who didn't break up with Dean because then he wouldn't like her.

It's debatable whether he boyfriends were proof of daddy issues, I think, though Logan was more obviously like Christopher than her previous boyfriends. But he did get his act together earlier than Chris did. Actually, Rory's refusing his proposal was a really adult stand for her. And in fairness to Rory, she was better than Lorelai ever was at integrating boyfriends into the rest of her life (Luke notwithstanding).

Edited April 3, 2015 by moonb

[junienmomo]

Rory actually went through the TV stereotypical boyfriends:

1. Dean the good kid and mother's dream first BF
2. Jess, the bad boy/sexual awakening
3. Logan, the rich bad boy who got away with murder
4. Marty, the unrequited lover
5. Tristan, the guy who got a better job elsewhere in TVland but otherwise would have been the HS Logan

She did suck as a girlfriend, but tried to get better. 

I found Logan the best because he did challenge and inspire her (like Jess), but he was also able to help her be better, even though he had a lot of faults.

[solotrek]

I found Logan the best because he did challenge and inspire her (like Jess), but he was also able to help her be better, even though he had a lot of faults.

For sure. She did the same for him. I think this was my favorite of her relationships because they both seemed to be in the same sort of place and willing to adjust themselves for the relationship (to some extent). It's one of the more realistic relationships on the show because it showed a lot of compromise and growth without the excess silliness (Lane/Zach; Sookie/Jackson; Richard/Emily).

[Aloeonatable]

I found them boring. 

[readster]

For sure. She did the same for him. I think this was my favorite of her relationships because they both seemed to be in the same sort of place and willing to adjust themselves for the relationship (to some extent). It's one of the more realistic relationships on the show because it showed a lot of compromise and growth without the excess silliness (Lane/Zach; Sookie/Jackson; Richard/Emily).

 

 I agree there the only thing that still gets me is yacht gate with Logan skeeting off to Europe all summer with a hand wave from the courts and how much priors he had. Yet Rory got everything thrown at her and even though Logan offered his lawyer who had gotten him out so many times. He was almost smiling on how Rory worked through all the community service like it was a joke.

[lottiedottie]

I gotta admit, I kind of have a little crush on Logan. He's kind of a pompous rich guy asshole, but he is always smiling  and he was kind of cute when he was all beat up from his accident. He seems to really love Rory. It's a refreshing change from Moody McMooderson Jess.

[readster]

 I also thought Logan was the best out of all the boyfriends. If Jess would have gotten over himself, he would have been good for Rory and Logan wasn't being crazy jealous and not saying anything like Dean was. Or a moron like Tristan was. I do still hate the "slept with the bridesmaids" part of the character. Proving that the writers wanted to create drama just for the sake of it. Even if it was in character for Logan, it just was very off putting on the character. I got more of his party life and not wanting to give it up and be like his parents and grandparents attitude a lot better.

[amensisterfriend]

but he is always smiling  and he was kind of cute when he was all beat up from his accident

 

I think that's when Logan really started to grow on me. Once I stopped interpreting his smile as an insincere smirk and started taking it as the determined good cheer that I think it's supposed to be, I started liking him so much more. It also helped that we started seeing him in more scenes without his godawful 'friends.' On this particular show, where a disproportionate number of the main male characters are generally sullen, negative, bitter, and angry (Luke, Jess, Dean, etc etc!), I found Logan brought a refreshing new energy. Which is not to say that he and his relationship with Rory didn't have flaws, of course :)  

[lottiedottie]

I think that's when Logan really started to grow on me. Once I stopped interpreting his smile as an insincere smirk and started taking it as the determined good cheer that I think it's supposed to be, I started liking him so much more. It also helped that we started seeing him in more scenes without his godawful 'friends.' On this particular show, where a disproportionate number of the main male characters are generally sullen, negative, bitter, and angry (Luke, Jess, Dean, etc etc!), I found Logan brought a refreshing new energy. Which is not to say that he and his relationship with Rory didn't have flaws, of course :)  

"Determined good cheer"--That's a good way to describe him.

 

I also loved that his nickname for Rory (Ace) evolved from being condescending to affectionate. When he first started calling her Ace it was so obnoxious and felt like a put down, but later it was charming and sweet.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I do still hate the "slept with the bridesmaids" part of the character. Proving that the writers wanted to create drama just for the sake of it. Even if it was in character for Logan, it just was very off putting on the character. I got more of his party life and not wanting to give it up and be like his parents and grandparents attitude a lot better.

 

I don't see that story line as the writers creating drama just for the sake of it. It was part of his character to go back to his sleazy ways after the argument with Rory. They hadn't been in an exclusive relationship all that long and he was also drinking excessively because he was unhappy. When he had the fight with Rory, he probably thought, "WTH, let me forget about her by having sex with a bunch of other girls, like I used to do." What I found most disturbing was his attitude toward the girls he had sex with, like it was all their fault and that they were nothing but sluts." What a tool.

[BkWurm1]

Was watching A House is Not a Home (the one where Rory announces she's dropping out of Yale and moves into the pool house) and when Lorelai was laying out to Richard and Emily all the problems Rory has been having since she started dating Logan it reminded me of why I didn't like Logan. 

 

It's not just him, it's his whole family and the lifestyle and the expectations and how they cowed and intimidated Rory and how she changed to fit in or in the case of journalism, bought into their crap and let it derail her goals and dreams.   I hated how Rory let them all get into her head.  It's like Lorelai says, "These are not good people", and even though later Logan's dad comes to appreciate Rory, it doesn't make him a better person and yes, Logan eventually broke away from his family but their entitled attitude IMO stayed with him. 

 

In the end he wanted Rory to follow him out to California, drop her plans and reform them around him and it just bugs me to no end that when she said no, he broke up with her.  It came off as what I want or nothing.  

 

I go back to what Rory told her mom when she was explaining why she was dropping out.  Part of it was because she felt Logan agreed with his dad.  He ranted and raved about how cruel it was for his father to have said it but not that he was wrong and I couldn't help compare how her other boyfriends would have reacted.   How her friends would have reacted!  Dean, Jess, Paris, Lane, I can clearly hear each and everyone of them instantly jumping to her defense with a "that's crazy" but I absolutely found it in character at the time for Logan to miss the whole point of why she was upset.  It's not that I think he thinks his dad was right (I really don't know what he thought) but he clearly didn't get that her confidence was severely shaken in herself. 

 

I don't hate Logan and I think he and Rory had a real relationship with real love but I just never felt that Logan ever completely saw Rory as Rory rather than someone he could mold to fit his world.  He changed some because of his involvement with Rory but it felt like his biggest changes, the part where he actually grew up had nothing to do with her but rather his time working in London.  I don't think that in itself is a negative - after all I think it's a good thing for Jess to get his head on straight on his own as well - but I think that it's important to note how negatively Rory was impacted by her time with Logan while Logan was only effected at a minimum level aka willing to date exclusively.

 

Jess was a mess, and Dean a dead end, but at least the people associated with them never threatened to drag Rory down. 

[readster]

 

I go back to what Rory told her mom when she was explaining why she was dropping out.  Part of it was because she felt Logan agreed with his dad.  He ranted and raved about how cruel it was for his father to have said it but not that he was wrong and I couldn't help compare how her other boyfriends would have reacted.   How her friends would have reacted!  Dean, Jess, Paris, Lane, I can clearly hear each and everyone of them instantly jumping to her defense with a "that's crazy" but I absolutely found it in character at the time for Logan to miss the whole point of why she was upset.  It's not that I think he thinks his dad was right (I really don't know what he thought) but he clearly didn't get that her confidence was severely shaken in herself.

 

 That's what really made the story so stupid to me in the first place. I completely agree, Logan was not getting where Rory was at that moment. He was too caught up thinking: "Oh hey, there is a bad girl in there." Later he realized his family was not only horrible to Rory but his dad really burned her in more ways than Logan himself. That is also what got to me in the story is that we never saw anyone else's reaction sans Luke. Who felt she did go too far and knew he had a say about things since he was going to be her stepfather. Paris didn't do zilch. She was still: "Oh Fletcher is gone but I have Doyle!" Lane was caught up with Zach and living on her own. Emily and Richard were so set that the Hutzburgers did nothing wrong until Richard learned from Mitchum it was all true. Mitchum even defending himself going: "If I was so wrong about her, then she wouldn't have taken things so bad from me." Which was true. Rory was so set to fit into this world that when she was told she wasn't good enough. Something that her other grandparents Staube and Francine made abundant that they never recognized her as their granddaughter by as a mistake. Rory shouldn't have had a problem or her friends and town family telling her that wasn't true and to prove Mitchum and company wrong. Instead, everyone let Rory melt down, Lorelai said she wanted Rory to come to her and did crap. It was Jess who actually said everything that everyone else should have told her. I mean, even Dean's stupid appearances could have been: "I might not be accepted in this world but you can't settle for this life." Or even Ms. Patty who knew Rory since she was a little girl going: "Honey, this isn't you, why do you feel like you have to be like this?" 

  Nope, that was all over shadowed because Rory's perfect world was shattered by an asshole. 

[amensisterfriend]

I totally disagree---I actually don't think Logan tried to change Rory in the least. If anything, I think the writers tried to show (albeit often not very consistently or effectively!) that Logan liked Rory precisely BECAUSE she didn't fit the usual mold of the super slick, vapid, high society party girls he usually dated. (Sadly, she became suspiciously close to fitting that criteria, but not because Logan wanted her to IMO---because she was 'rebelling' and/or the victim of bad writing!) Rory's character DID change at around this time in the series (though I'd argue many of her changes began pre-Logan in S4, but that's for another thread!), and I agree completely that most of those changes weren't for the better, but I don't think they occurred because Logan was pressuring her to change in any way. 

 

I'm the first to say that Rory didn't seem wholly comfortable or 'herself' around Logan, though I tend to think that's less a deliberate choice by the writers and more because Alexis Bledel seemed so uncomfortable acting in romantic scenes with anyone other than MV, who she was dating in real life :) And, believe me, I have my share of issues with Logan as an individual character and the Rory/Logan relationship. The bridesmaid thing, while not 'cheating', still grosses me out when I think of it, I hated that Rory was so often shown merrily tolerating or even enjoying exactly the Life and Death Brigade types she'd always justifiably disliked, and---well, suffice to say that, like nearly all GG couples, I think they're better in fanfic than on screen :)  But I don't blame Logan for the vast majority of Rory's unwelcome changes and missteps...I blame Rory. And the writers, who had made her so close to perfect at the outset of the series that there was nowhere to go but backwards with her characterization by the time we hit the middle to later seasons of the show :)  

Edited April 20, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[JayInChicago]

I think also it deserves to be said that from Mitchum's perspective (limited as we saw it) he probably pretty fairly judged Rory. I mean, it could have just been the writing being bad, but she did not shine in that internship. Though he probably could have brought it up a little earlier. 

 

The big problem with late era GG is you have a) what is being told to you b) what is being shown, c) Alexis's fairly clear fatigue with the character and d) trying to decipher if whether something is good or bad because of or despite the writing. To me the whole internship is a perplexing morass.

Edited April 21, 2015 by JayInChicago

[junienmomo]

And the writers, who had made her so close to perfect at the outset of the series that there was nowhere to go but backwards with her characterization by the time we hit the middle to later seasons of the show :)  

Out of all the characters in GG, I would have expected Rory to end the show better and stronger than when she began. However, she didn't. Fine, she wasn't the perfect student that her mother raised, but neither was she the assertive Rory who told that it was unacceptable to treat Dean the way they did at dinner one night, nor was she the independent Rory who sided with Luke in defense of Jess after the car accident. If anything, I fear she gathered some of the less-admirable traits of Lorelai, namely indecisiveness and an unwillingness to commit. Not that I expected or wanted her to commit to Logan, but I had hoped that she would exit college with a stronger sense of who she was and what she wanted. She made one shot at that with the NYT internship, lost it, then took the very next job. I'd almost have to side with original Mitchum on her ability to be long-term successful in a competitive job environment.

Long-term, I felt Logan was better for her than even new and improved Jess, although he was a close second.

[Aloeonatable]

 

But I don't blame Logan for the vast majority of Rory's unwelcome changes and missteps...I blame Rory. And the writers, who had made her so close to perfect at the outset of the series that there was nowhere to go but backwards with her characterization by the time we hit the middle to later seasons of the show :)

 

Much of Rory's "perfection" was exaggerated IMO. Sure she got into all the Ivy schools she applied to and seemed to have cute guys lining up to be with her, but I think that was the intention of the writers and producers. Much like many of the characters, she was a type and an exaggeration of that type. She was also flawed in many respects and was from the beginning. She was horribly passive/aggressive and a people pleaser, not necessarily bad traits, but flaws none-the-less. I never blamed Logan for Rory's missteps, but his influence did make it easier for her to go down the path of modest self-destruction. 

 

Did Rory actually write when she was in the internship or was she just a glorified assistant/gofer? Was Mitchum referring to her lack of assertiveness when he said she didn't have it to be a journalist. Was she even given an opportunity to practice journalism? Should she have questioned her duties? I don't know if that was made clear.

[cheezwhiz346]

 

Did Rory actually write when she was in the internship or was she just a glorified assistant/gofer? Was Mitchum referring to her lack of assertiveness when he said she didn't have it to be a journalist. Was she even given an opportunity to practice journalism? Should she have questioned her duties? I don't know if that was made clear.

I always go back and forth on this, because I have no idea exactly what people are looking for in journalism students who are still so young and inexperienced. I mean, it's good to be assertive, but I also think it's crap to offer someone an internship for journalism experience, then only give them clerical and administrative experience, and then claim that, based on a few weeks of work in that internship, they don't have what it takes. Now, I can see someone like Mitchum, who I think probably has a very skewed view about the job market and what it means to be a young woman (esp. Rory, who has been particularly socialized to play up her niceness more than her ambition, I think) in a competitive field like that, saying what he said, and I do think as a journalist Rory would need to learn to be more assertive, but things like that can be learned, and take time. His expectations for that short of a time period were unreasonable and out of touch, IMO.

 

Regarding Logan and his influence on Rory, I think, as others have discussed, that Rory was influenced because she could be. I feel like she had much more backbone in the earlier seasons, and later on wavered between wishy-washy and agressive. I've never been a big Logan fan, but much like Rory's relationship with Jess, it's Rory's behavior in the relationship that bugs me more than anything else.

[Artsda]

 

But I don't blame Logan for the vast majority of Rory's unwelcome changes and missteps...I blame Rory.

 I agree, Logan was always Logan.  His life and death brigade, his events and partying with Colin and Finn. He never really asked her to change. It's Rory who changed herself to fit in with them and go to bars, be ok with him stealing from her grandma, all the drinking, Martha's Vineyard,  parties and mold herself to fit into their rich life. I don't blame Logan for how awful that relationship made Rory look. I blame Rory for who she became in that relationship with Logan. 

 

I liked Colin, Finn and Logan far more during that time period than I liked Rory. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Artsda

[Athena]

I thought it was almost natural how Rory had her "rebellion" and fell into Logan's crowd for a bit. I think many of us have experiences where we become friends with types of people whom we weren't friendly with before. I think it became problematic because the writing became over the top for it: she had an affair with a married man, she stole a boat, she dropped out of school, she and Lorelai fell out. It was almost melodramatic.

 

I liked that Logan never asked her to change either. Even the proposal where he just accepted that she didn't want the marriage. Recently, I've started to appreciate Logan's all or nothing approach to the proposal. I think he matured much more than she had done by that point so it was understandable why he would want a change for them. He was ready, but she was not. He knew going in that there was a chance she would say No and didn't really make a big deal about it. I think by that point he knew she was the one for him. If they kept on with the relationship without a solid long term commitment, he didn't think they should wait. In a funny way, he was the typically female position at the end wanting to ask for commitment. It can be hard to be with someone who does love you, but you also wonder if they will ever commit. I think he suspected that too and ended it rightly when she rejected.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Recently, I've started to appreciate Logan's all or nothing approach to the proposal. I think he matured much more than she had done by that point so it was understandable why he would want a change for them. He was ready, but she was not. He knew going in that there was a chance she would say No and didn't really make a big deal about it. I think by that point he knew she was the one for him. If they kept on with the relationship without a solid long term commitment, he didn't think they should wait. In a funny way, he was the typically female position at the end wanting to ask for commitment. It can be hard to be with someone who does love you, but you also wonder if they will ever commit. I think he suspected that too and ended it rightly when she rejected.

 

I do agree that Logan was definitely ready to settle down with someone he loved. I don't know if that necessarily makes him mature, just decisive at that point. Of course he would want the commitment,  and not want to live apart, so he wasn't wrong in walking away anymore than Rory was wrong for refusing to commit. 

[ghoulina]

I agree, Logan was always Logan.  His life and death brigade, his events and partying with Colin and Finn. He never really asked her to change. It's Rory who changed herself to fit in with them and go to bars, be ok with him stealing from her grandma, all the drinking, Martha's Vineyard,  parties and mold herself to fit into their rich life. I don't blame Logan for how awful that relationship made Rory look. I blame Rory for who she became in that relationship with Logan.

 

I completely agree. I didn't really care for her relationship with Logan (in its entirety; it had its moments), because Rory did a lot of moronic and un-Rory like things during that time. But I never really blamed that on Logan. I never felt like he pressured her or wanted to change her. As someone upthread commented, I feel like Logan liked Rory because she was so different from all the other girls he'd been with. And, in fact, I think he got annoyed at times when she strayed too far from who she was. For instance, when he was going back to school and she still wasn't, I got the impression that he thought she'd snap out of it by then and wasn't really thrilled with this DAR-party-hosting Rory. 

 

Really, the only time I got a sense of Logan wanting to call the shots was the very end, the proposal and the move to CA. I felt like he just assumed she'd drop everything and follow him, and I didn't really appreciate that. But maybe that's because she had been following him around and adapting to his life for so long at that point. 

[Athena]

I do agree that Logan was definitely ready to settle down with someone he loved. I don't know if that necessarily makes him mature, just decisive at that point. Of course he would want the commitment,  and not want to live apart, so he wasn't wrong in walking away anymore than Rory was wrong for refusing to commit. 

 

For me, Logan had matured more because he grew the most between the two of them. He was a very different Logan from when he met her to when he proposed to her. Rory did grow a bit by the end of their relationship, but again, I felt a lot of her accomplishments during the Yale post-rebellion phase were unearned. I didn't think she ever truly learned from her mistakes. She was still trying to figure things out which was fair. In the end, I think they both grew out of the relationship in the sense they weren't on the same page anymore.

[Aloeonatable]

Logan definitely had to grow up from the frat-boy party animal he was in the beginning of their relationship, so I guess you could say he matured. He made a lot of mistakes on the way to where he ended up, but that wasn't so unexpected. He finally decided to be his own man. 

 

 

Rory did grow a bit by the end of their relationship, but again, I felt a lot of her accomplishments during the Yale post-rebellion phase were unearned. I didn't think she ever truly learned from her mistakes.

 

If you're referring to becoming the editor of the Yale newspaper, or graduating with her class even after dropping out for awhile, then I agree that she seemed to accomplish things that were unearned. That was, however, in character for Rory as she was the "darling of the Universe" after all. It's hard to say how much she learned from her mistakes because the writers rarely showed any fallout. 

[swtrgrl]

Logan was my favorite of the boyfriends. As stated (probably more eloquently than I can):

 

• Dean was the perfect first boyfriend: cute and loving and easy going (best 1st kiss ever)
• Jess was the natural teen progression: angry, different, rebellious, brooding, pseudo-intellectual with shared interests in that vein (I am not a fan)

 

I agree that Logan is Christopher. I'm okay with that.

 

Logan was smart and sexy and fun...and IMO, he didn't hold Rory back. SHE was the one who made all of those idiotic decisions. He supported her either way. He thought it was a phase and she'd get back to her real self sooner than later. He fell for Rory because she was wholly unlike all the girls he was schtupping. He didn't want her to become Emily. He hated that.

 

I just binge watched their scenes. It's fresh for me.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Logan was smart and sexy and fun

 

To each his own. I didn't find Logan sexy at all. But that is just my preference. He was smart and as for being fun, if you like his type of adventures and the fact that he wasn't limited financially, then I guess you could say he was "fun."

 

 

 

I agree that Logan is Christopher. I'm okay with that.

 

I'm not necessarily a Luke/Lorelai fan, but I also didn't like Christopher and I really don't believe they assassinated his character when he and Lorelai got together. Logan was similar to Christopher somewhat, but I recall Lorelai likening Dean to Christopher in season one too. 

[junienmomo]

If Jess could be considered Rory's sexual awakening, then Logan was her pathway to adventure and independence. That's why he was my favorite of the boyfriends. 

In spite of his many weaknesses (and I agree, those reminded me of Christopher), he was much more to Rory than Christopher was to Lorelai.

He taught her to take risks, stood by her even when the risks she took were insane (think yacht theft), and with the exception of the ultimatum proposal and the deal-breaker bridesmaids, he guided her and made her a better person. In many ways he was able to show her how to live in her grandparents' world. By the end of the series, I felt he had opened the door for her to be part of society, which was more than Lorelai or her parents had done. 

I liked that her story was left open at the end of the series, because if she retained some of the Logan independence, she could do much more than she seemed to be doing under her mother's influence. 

[Aloeonatable]

 

 

If Jess could be considered Rory's sexual awakening, then Logan was her pathway to adventure and independence. That's why he was my favorite of the boyfriends.

In spite of his many weaknesses (and I agree, those reminded me of Christopher), he was much more to Rory than Christopher was to Lorelai.

He taught her to take risks, stood by her even when the risks she took were insane (think yacht theft), and with the exception of the ultimatum proposal and the deal-breaker bridesmaids, he guided her and made her a better person. In many ways he was able to show her how to live in her grandparents' world. By the end of the series, I felt he had opened the door for her to be part of society, which was more than Lorelai or her parents had done.

I liked that her story was left open at the end of the series, because if she retained some of the Logan independence, she could do much more than she seemed to be doing under her mother's influence.

 

I don't see how Logan made Rory a better person. She was doing quite well when she started seeing him. Sure, she was just coming off of having an affair with a married man, but that was not of any consequence to her dating Logan. I mostly think of the negative influence he had on her. She was already a good student, living away from home and thriving. Now I don't blame Logan entirely for Rory quitting Yale, or stealing the yacht, but I really can't see her doing those things without his influence. I really believe she would have grown independent and confident without his help. 

[Artsda]

Rory made Logan a better person, he changed and grew with her, where as Rory became a worse person with Logan. Her actions weren't his doing but her dropping out, arrested for yacht stealing etc.. all happened because of her surroundings being in the clique with the likes of Logan/Colin/Finn. Who got arrested apparently for things often and stole things from houses. Rory made no attempt to stop Logan from stealing her grandmothers item and made no attempt to speak up when her grandmother was blaming an innocent person. That was awful of her. Had Lorelai not been there Rory would have done nothing.

 

That's not on Logan, but the person Rory became with Logan was worse person. 

 

Rory said herself to the psychiatrist, she never would have stolen a yacht with Dean.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Artsda

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

Rory said herself to the psychiatrist, she never would have stolen a yacht with Dean.

Yeah, she only committed adultery with Dean. But whatever, the only person really hurt in that situation was Lindsey so why would Rory care, right?

 

I kind of think Rory was just a good person in her youth by default, at least partially. How hard is it to be good when you face no adversity and are the center of your mother and the whole towns universe. When struck with actual moral issues she had no problem playing Dean (I'm not getting into his culpability, though he certainly had some), letting Jess treat people she cared about like crap without a word from her, how often did she speak up for any of the help that her grandmother berated for the most minor of grievances, one of her best friends (Paris) was a terror to the general public but she stayed her friend mostly because she proved useful and had no problem downplaying said friendship to people. She encouraged her mother to lie to Luke. She had no problem committing adultery. She's good when life is good.

[amensisterfriend]

It's one of GG's many eternal mysteries for me: Did Rory's character changes, acts of rebellion and greater interest in exploring a high society lifestyle partly result from her association with Logan or just happen to correlate with it? I started liking Logan and Rory/Logan a lot more once I decided it was probably the latter---Rory was at a stage where she was ready to break away from her SH persona anyway, and Logan was one of the manifestations of that rather than the CAUSE of that, at least IMO. Plus, the writers kind of sucked at maintaining ANY of the characters' likability around that time in the series, so for me Rory was just one of the more extreme victims of that epidemic :) And, on paper, I actually think Rory and Logan were a very compatible balance of similarities and complementary differences, which is more than I can say for most couples on this show. 

 

It just always comes down to chemistry with me, which I realize is purely subjective---as exemplified by the fact that I'm among the only GG fans in the universe who doesn't see any romantic chemistry/compatibility between Luke and Lorelai :) Something about Alexis Bledel/Matt C.'s chemistry just didn't work for me---I could never shake the feeling that Rory wasn't totally comfortable or 'herself' around Logan in large part because of Alexis Bledel's own unintentional awkwardness around him rather than because that's what the writers wanted me to think. (Or so I'm assuming...lord knows what the writers were really aiming for at that point!) If Logan had been played by another actor---one who had less of a tendency to smirk (though yay for GG males who actually smile and take some joy out of life!) and who had more natural chemistry with Rory, I would probably adore them more than I do. As it is, I adore them far more in fanfic than onscreen :) 

 

Conversely, Jess/Rory is the 'type' of relationship I normally don't like---but the chemistry is just off the charts for me, forcing me to love them more than I ever wanted to :) 

Edited May 13, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Aloeonatable]

 

 

Something about Alexis Bledel/Matt C.'s chemistry just didn't work for me---I could never shake the feeling that Rory wasn't totally comfortable or 'herself' around Logan in large part because of Alexis Bledel's own unintentional awkwardness around him rather than because that's what the writers wanted me to think. (Or so I'm assuming...lord knows what the writers were really aiming for at that point!) If Logan had been played by another actor---one who had less of a tendency to smirk (though yay for GG males who actually smile and take some joy out of life!) and who had more natural chemistry with Rory, I would probably adore them more than I do. As it is, I adore them far more in fanfic than onscreen :)

Conversely, Jess/Rory is the 'type' of relationship I normally don't like---but the chemistry is just off the charts for me, forcing me to love them more than I ever wanted to :)

I also think MC just wasn't charismatic enough to make me see why Rory (Alexis) might find chemistry with him. I guess it was the MV/AB relationship off screen that made their on screen relationship sizzle. 

[Luckylyn]

[amensisterfriend]

I've been rewatching S6 (yes, I have a masochistic streak---but I'm actually liking it more than I expected! Or at least disliking it a lot LESS than expected ::) Anyway, I find it fascinating how much my view of this relationship would change if I saw more chemistry and even genuine comfort between the actors, which explains a lot about why I enjoy them so much more in fanfic. On paper, there's a lot of interesting and even surprisingly sweet stuff there, and for much of S6-S7 Logan is actually a really good blend of complementary differences which challenge Rory and similarities that help them connect. On screen, though, it's usually hard for me to shake the sense that Rory's not wholly HER and happy and relaxed when she's with him, though I really do think that's more the inadvertent impression I get from the actors' dynamic than a deliberate writing choice. (S5 was a little different, and the vast majority of that season reads to me as if AS-P et al. honestly didn't know until the last minute whether Logan would stick around, hence often making him more of a jerk who most viewers would likely disapprove of and be psyched to see gone---again, that's just the feeling it gives me and probably not at all based in reality!)  

 

I'm also finding myself thinking that everything about Logan and Jess is either exactly the same or exactly the opposite :) Jess and Logan are both 'bad boys' who semi-reform, they both have distant and tense relationships with their families, they both rebel against expectations, they both play the field with women who don't mean much to them until Rory comes along, they're both very bright but don't generally apply themselves academically, they both thrive on witty banter, both have trouble with deeper intimacy, at least initially, etc.  But they're opposites in other ways: Logan's blond and always smirking/smiling, Jess is dark and smiles very rarely; Jess is arguably 'too' serious and brooding a guy who needs to get in touch with his lighter, friendlier and more funloving side, while Logan is all too in touch with his lighter, more funloving side and often needs to learn to be more serious, prudent, etc. as the series progresses; Logan grew up in a high society life of privilege, while Jess very much did not.  And Rory is a lot like both and quite different from both as well. 

 

In fact, arguably both Jess AND Logan are more like Lorelai :) 

Edited June 14, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[amensisterfriend]

---So I don't agree that Rory should have accepted Logan's marriage proposal or some of the individual points here, but this was a cute and somewhat interesting take on the Rory/Logan relationship written by one of the few media types who likes him :) Mostly I just love any excuse to look at GG gifs! 

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mackenziekruvant/rory-should-have-said-yes-to-logan#.obX2rV32m