Rory and Logan

[amensisterfriend]

We have a Rory/Jess thread, so I felt it only fitting that we have a Rory/Logan thread as well :) (Fairness would probably dictate that we also have a Rory/Dean thread, but I can't bring myself to start one!) 

 

What do you guys like and/or not like about this pairing? Which scenes/episodes contained your favorite Rory/Logan moments? And, as always, feel free to post your favorite pictures! 

 

 

[AlinaRay]

I actually like Rory and Logan together; sure, he was smarmy and arrogant, but I still think he was good to Rory. I hold the UO that Rory should have accepted Logan's proposal. She could have still traveled for Barack Obama and had a journalism career, but Logan would have made her life exciting and Rory would have kept him grounded - They would be good for each other. They would have traveled together and been people of the world. I think it would have been good for Rory to get out from both her grandparent's and her mother's influences and spread her wings a little. And once they both got established in their respective careers, they could have settled closer to home.

 

One of my favorite moments between the two of them was when he bought Rory the Birkin Bag, and she told him she loved him, and he goes "the lady at the store said this would happen." It was such a quiet, throwaway line, but he did it perfectly.

[amensisterfriend]

I've always been conflicted over Rory and Logan. I go through phases where they really don't work for me at all: Logan often seems, as you noted, too arrogant and smarmy for me even when he's supposed to seem sincere, I'm not a fan of how the actor plays him, I'm a Rory/Jess fan, and Logan's entry into Rory's life happens to coincide with my decreased love for and ability to relate to the character. Other times, though, I find myself enjoying them a lot more than I ever expect to. I especially enjoy Logan (and, by extension, Rory/Logan) in Season 7. Some of the 'conflicts of the week' were silly and unrelated to whatever came before and after, but overall I thought that in S7 they were depicted as an affectionate, fairly connected couple and liked that Logan seemed to mature without becoming a radically different person. 

 

Even though S7 was definitely my favorite for the couple overall, though, I think my favorite single Logan/Rory moment may still be in Say Something when he hears that Rory has to return to Lorelai---he immediately goes from flirty, cocky, lighthearted party boy to serious, compassionate and generous, showing Rory---and the audience---that he was capable of more depth than we may have suspected :) 

I love this picture:

 

[Tangerine]

I didn't care much for Logan at first because he struck me as very temporary when he was first introduced. He was part of Rory's experimentation with the high-class lifestyle of her grandparents world. Somewhere down the line, I really grew fond of Logan. I think Matt Czuchry plays him with a lot of warmth and heart that despite all the arrogance, there's a true gentleness and kindness there. At some point in season 6 and 7, I actually liked Logan a lot more than Rory. I think it was because we actually got to see Logan grow and evolve, while Rory seemed to hang on to super special snowflake status that got increasingly unrelateable.

[junienmomo]

Although I can perfectly understand how Rory could have judged his immature behavior re: sleeping with the bridesmaids and using L&DB to escape from his responsibilities as reasons to refuse him, I can also see that those things could be forgiven and they could have forged a strong permanent relationship.

The actual reason she gave of wanting to live with ambiguity and the writers' insistence on yet another useless ultimatum (San Jose now or never) was weaker.

I think they made a killer couple, with fewer issues to mature through than Rory/Jess would have had.  

[amensisterfriend]

I think you guys make a great point about Logan evolving throughout the relationship----you could argue that he was more changed (generally in a positive direction!) by his romantic relationship than any other character in the GG universe, including Lorelai, Rory, Luke, etc. 

 

And, yeah, I try to block out the bridesmaid thing ;) Objectively, I know it's not in any way "cheating" and get why they'd move past it quickly, but subjectively it just kind of grosses me out...I'm weirdly old fashioned that way! 

 

Another thing about Rory/Logan I'm liking while I rewatch later seasons, especially season 7: unlike the vast majority of GG couples, they're allowed to be genuinely romantic, you know?! I don't mean sexy times and all that, but just the sweet gestures, surprise visits, hand holding, etc. I think that has to do in part with the fact that DR wrote couples with more overt warmth and affection than AS-P. 

 

Another couple of pictures that I really like:

 

 

Edited January 2, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Athena]

I didn't care much for Logan at first because he struck me as very temporary when he was first introduced. He was part of Rory's experimentation with the high-class lifestyle of her grandparents world. Somewhere down the line, I really grew fond of Logan. I think Matt Czuchry plays him with a lot of warmth and heart that despite all the arrogance, there's a true gentleness and kindness there. At some point in season 6 and 7, I actually liked Logan a lot more than Rory. I think it was because we actually got to see Logan grow and evolve, while Rory seemed to hang on to super special snowflake status that got increasingly unrelateable.

 

Word to this post. I didn't have a big opinion on Logan when he first appeared. I was and still consider myself more of a casual fan of GG. I watched it, like some of it, but unlike many of my friends and posters, didn't love it. I grew to adore Logan though; he is one of my favourite things about the show. I definitely agree that Mat Czuchry was a big reason. Sometimes he did walk the line to being slightly smarmy, but there is a definite sincerity to how he plays the character over the time that makes up for it.

 

My UO is that by the end of the series, I thought he was too good for Rory so I had no big issue with them not getting married. I thought she made the mistake of letting him go completely. At that point, Logan had proven more than once how much he loved her and how he was able to become a better person. He grew so much in a couple of seasons.

 

I agree that Rory's ultimate pairing would be with Jess. I never loved Rory or related to her, but I could see that her and Jess were the OTP. I did like her with Logan, but mostly because I liked Logan.

 

I think you guys make a great point about Logan evolving throughout the relationship----you could argue that he was more changed (generally in a positive direction!) by his romantic relationship than any other character in the GG universe, including Lorelai, Rory, Luke, etc. 

...

Another thing about Rory/Logan I'm liking while I rewatch later seasons, especially season 7: unlike the vast majority of GG couples, they're allowed to be genuinely romantic, you know?! I don't mean sexy times and all that, but just the sweet gestures, surprise visits, hand holding, etc. I think that has to do in part with the fact that DR wrote couples with more overt warmth and affection than AS-P. 

 

I noticed this when I rewatched the later seasons too. I didn't rewatch the earlier seasons so I can't remember how Rory was with Jess and Dean in terms of being romantic. She had different chemistry with all three of her main love interests because each of them were distinct enough from each other. This is why many fans of the show seem to be firmly ship her with one guy over the other.

 

I did like how sweet Rory/Logan were. In the episode where he visits Star's Hollow, they walk down the street and while they talk, he takes her hand and kisses it gently. It never seemed out of place or corny; he was affectionate with her.

[Tangerine]

I agree that Rory's ultimate pairing would be with Jess. I never loved Rory or related to her, but I could see that her and Jess were the OTP. I did like her with Logan, but mostly because I liked Logan.

 

I noticed this when I rewatched the later seasons too. I didn't rewatch the earlier seasons so I can't remember how Rory was with Jess and Dean in terms of being romantic. She had different chemistry with all three of her main love interests because each of them were distinct enough from each other. This is why many fans of the show seem to be firmly ship her with one guy over the other.

 

I did like how sweet Rory/Logan were. In the episode where he visits Star's Hollow, they walk down the street and while they talk, he takes her hand and kisses it gently. It never seemed out of place or corny; he was affectionate with her.

 

One of my favourite Rory/Logan moments was when he gave her that rocket ship and hearing the reason why. I never pegged Logan as a Twilight Zone fan, and to hear that left such an impression on him just really melted my heart.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Tangerine

[ghoulina]

I think at the time they got serious, Logan was what she needed. Logan was a good mix of the things Jess and Dean were lacking. Dean was a sweet, fun guy - always up to attend crazy town functions or just watch movies with Rory and Lorelei. But he just couldn't meet her on an intellectual level. Jess, OTOH, could....but he was such a mess when they were dating. He was a very unhappy person and he just wasn't capable of being good to her at that point. He was aloof and noncommittal and left her hanging a lot of the time. 

 

Logan came along and he was a very fun-loving guy, but he was also intelligent and could banter with her and get into discussions about literature and what-not. I don't think those two were a horrible match, and I agree that Logan changed A LOT over his arc on the show, probably more than any other character. I'm probably biased because I just never really liked Logan and have always been a big Jess fan, but I never really saw them going the distance. 

 

As far as Logan did come, he still had that dick side of him that would come out, and I just don't know that I'd trust he could weather all the ups and downs of a marriage with Rory, without reverting to his old ways. Maybe he could, maybe not, but I just couldn't trust him. And remember, he was the one that told Rory he would factor her in, when she was making her pro-con list, and that she should go wherever she wanted....but then when that Silicon Valley thing came up, he was just expecting her to jump and get started planting avocado trees. I guess to sum it up, I do feel Logan had changed, but not entirely. I feel sometimes it was easy for him to say and do the "right" things, but underneath he was still a bit of a self-centered asshole and I just didn't want to picture Rory leaving everything to follow him to California. 

 

In my mind, after the presidential campaign was over, Rory and Jess got back together and lived in some cozy, but cute loft in NY or Boston or something. I think once Jess had his shit together he was a much better match for her. Like I said, biased. 

[Athena]

In my mind, after the presidential campaign was over, Rory and Jess got back together and lived in some cozy, but cute loft in NY or Boston or something. I think once Jess had his shit together he was a much better match for her. Like I said, biased. 

 

I agree with you there and I think A S-P does as well. Even though I liked Logan and I believe he did change and grow (that's my bias ;) - I was OK with Rory and Logan breaking up in the end. I actually think it was a smart move for Rory to be independent again even though I wanted Logan to be in her life still.

[ghoulina]

I agree with you there and I think A S-P does as well. Even though I liked Logan and I believe he did change and grow (that's my bias ;) - I was OK with Rory and Logan breaking up in the end. I actually think it was a smart move for Rory to be independent again even though I wanted Logan to be in her life still.

 

Yea, I think Rory really loved Logan, but she just didn't want either of them so pinned down by a commitment, when they were just beginning to sort out their careers and plans for the future. Rory did not want to break-up, but I can't really blame Logan for not wanting to continue on with the long-distance dating after putting it all out there and proposing. 

[amensisterfriend]

Some random favorite Rory/Logan moments: 

 

His sudden and genuine concern upon hearing that Rory had to go back to Stars Hollow in Say Something (I rambled about that one above!)

 

Her endearing awkwardness while they talk about her binders full of notes and The Office in Come Home 

 

Logan explaining seriously that it's not that she wouldn't be a great girlfriend---it's that he doubted his own ability to be a good boyfriend 

 

Logan surprising her with a visit back from London

 

Logan leaving her the rocket----and, yes, I agree with whoever liked that he'd be a Twilight Zone fan! I also liked when we occasionally heard him allude to reading for pleasure :) 

 

Logan asking Lorelai for Rory's hand in marriage and making it clear how much he loved her 

 

Logan totally 'getting' that Rory's jealous rambling in NYC was a long-winded way of just trying to say she missed him 

 

Rory happily and proudly calling him a "work dork" 

 

Rory throwing him the type of birthday party he never got to experience in his painfully repressed family 

 

Rory giving him a farewell party before he leaves for England (I liked that in part because Rory---like I am!---is more the type who would have been content or even preferred to just hang out with him alone that last night in a very low key way, but she knew that Logan loves to socialize and would want to say goodbye to everyone, so she took the time to plan something he'd enjoy) 

 

Logan looking a little worried when Rory announced towards the beginning of S6 that she was going to be the 'queen of the sloths'---I always liked that he seemed to appreciate the ways in which she differed from the usual 'Life and Death Brigade' girls he used to date and how he knew that being a party animal just wasn't her. 

 

 

I'm sure I'm missing a ton, so feel free to add to the list! 

 

My least favorite moments are pretty obvious :) 

Edited January 2, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Aloeonatable]

 

I hold the UO that Rory should have accepted Logan's proposal.

I really am glad that Rory said no to the proposal. I don't think I ever warmed up to Logan and sadly I think MC was primarily the reason. Superficially, his hair, his clothes and just his smirky smile turned me off from the beginning. I really didn't like who Rory became once she entered his world. I don't blame him totally, of course, but he was IMO not a very good influence on her. 

 

He did seem to grow out of his immaturity, but like ghoulina posted:

 

As far as Logan did come, he still had that dick side of him that would come out, and I just don't know that I'd trust he could weather all the ups and downs of a marriage with Rory, without reverting to his old ways.

 

When he all but demanded that she fit into his life, where he wanted to work and live, I really thought of that action as selfish. I know many of his fans say that proposal and ultimatum was out of character, but I think he always thought of himself first. 

 

I don't think I have any favorite moments of Rory and Logan.

[Kohola3]

Ditto, Aloeonatable.  You summed up my every thought exactly.  Whenever I watch now, I fast forward through any of their scenes.

[amensisterfriend]

I think it's possible to like and appreciate things about both Rory/Logan and Rory/Jess. Or, as some do, flat out love or hate both pairings :) As I've said, I've always been a Jess/Rory fan and saw the most natural connection and chemistry there, possibly in part because the actors were together in real life. But certain aspects of Rory/Logan really intrigue me, and while rewatching this time around I'm happily surprised to find that I do like many of their scenes. 

 

I always found it really interesting that Jess and Logan were both like Lorelai in many respects. I won't get into the similarities I see between Jess and Lorelai here since this isn't a Jess thread, but I actually think Logan and Lorelai may be even more alike: both grew up in wealthy, repressive homes that they eventually felt the need to become independent from, both are spontaneous, extroverted life lovers who are sometimes too risky and impulsive, both adore Rory for the somewhat serious, mostly introverted semi-neurotic she is while still gently (or not so gently!) bringing her out of her shell, both can be somewhat vain yet very generous, both are generally playful and teasing (sometimes to the point of annoyance!) but able to tap into their serious sides when appropriate.

 

An insightful poster here once commented that if Lorelai hadn't been forced into a life of early responsibility by having Rory at a young age, she might have been a lot like Logan was when we first met him---though a different gender, of course ;) I resisted that idea at first, but I actually think it's very interesting and has a lot of merit. 

Edited January 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[ghoulina]

Good point, amensisterfriend, and I did like the moment when Lorelei realized all of that about Logan, when they were in the kitchen and he was trying to convince her that he wasn't just some careless risk taker. She kind of had an "aha!" moment, seeing how similar her journey and Logan's had been. It's funny that Lorelei seemed to finally be coming around to liking and respecting Logan, and then the relationship ends.

[Athena]

I realized on my rewatch of the episode where Christopher and Logan meet that they are the same guy. I think Lorelai had some of her best chemistry with Christopher, but I knew she would not end up with him. Similarly, I felt that Rory/Logan would not be the end game either.

 

I do think Logan as a character and romantic partner was polarizing. I can understand why people would not like him especially when you read him on paper based on his actions the first time he and Rory meet. I don't think the proposal was out of character since I have known couples who make big commitments after a lengthy long distance relationships. I felt the ultimatum was more OOC if only because it served as a way for Rory to end the series single.

[Aloeonatable]

 

An insightful poster here once commented that if Lorelai hadn't been forced into a life of early responsibility by having Rory at a young age, she might have been a lot like Logan was when we first met him---though a different gender, of course ;) I resisted that idea at first, but I actually think it's very interesting and has a lot of merit.

 

Lorelai is also not one of my favorite characters for the very reason she is similar to Logan. Her redemption in my mind comes from her leaving the repressive life style and making it on her own. I really did not like Logan's poor-little-rich-boy attitude when his family made demands, yet he had no problem taking advantage of the perks.

[Kohola3]

I really did not like Logan's poor-little-rich-boy attitude when his family made demands, yet he had no problem taking advantage of the perks.

 

Exactly the reason for my dislike for that character.  His ultimatum proposal just fostered the whole "I'm rich and always get what I want so it's my way or the highway" attitude that he displayed throughout the series.  Even with her faults, Lorelai put aside the entitlement of her parent's wealth when she left home and made it on her own.  Logan just used his family wealth and connections to his own advantage despite his whining about his father "making" him do things.

[amensisterfriend]

I can understand why people would not like him especially when you read him on paper based on his actions the first time he and Rory meet.

 

Yeah, as one of those people who winces through many of Logan's S5 and even S6 scenes, I'm convinced that in S5 the writers didn't think Logan would be an enduring love interest---the swigging from a flask, overly smarmy Life and Death Brigade-y, 'ladies' man who's slept with every woman in the tri-state area' nonsense, pilfering trinkets from her grandparents' house ,etc. were all red flags that screamed "he's not permanent!!!" to me. I'm always curious about how I (and other viewers who initially didn't like him) would have viewed the character if he had been *deliberately* written from the outset as someone who was meant to become Rory's love interest for the remainder of the series. I'm thinking he still would have possessed the same flaws, but that they'd have been presented in a softer and less extreme light. As much as I snark on the writers, I give them credit for giving Logan growth and maturity that felt pretty natural to me. My 70-year-old mom, who finally gave into my pleas to watch the series this past year, turned to me at some point during S7 and remarked on how surprised she was to find that somewhere along the way she started genuinely liking Logan and his romance with Rory: "How did THAT happen?!" As remarked here and elsewhere, I now find myself wishing that other characters had undergone as much growth as Logan (and, interestingly, Jess!) 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I honestly saw the intent behind the Logan proposing/California thing as him doing that guy thing where they think they have to fix instead of just listening. If I remember correctly Rory was on really unsteady ground about her life and career at that point. She had turned down the job and didn't get the fellowship. She had no plan and she was freaking, and he knew she needed a plan so he made one when he saw a path opening up for him in California. He looked at houses and checked out job prospects for her. He wasn't a planner but he was making plans because he knew she was and didn't have any at the moment. And I think he might have fallen in love with the the life he was starting to envision.

[takalotti]

So, I'm kind of middle of the road on the proposal 'ultimatum.'

On the one hand, I don't understand how a person can love someone enough to propose marriage, and yet call off the relationship if they don't get a resounding yes. If they get a 'No, I don't ever see myself marrying you,' then I understand because the person learned it's not going anywhere and they want to be free to find that with someone else. But that's not how Rory responded.

On the other hand, Logan wasn't indignant or offended by her answer. He didn't have a petulant or ego-driven 'I didn't get my way!' reaction. Maybe he just saw it as, if she can't say yes now, she probably won't be able to later, so just call a spade a spade.

I mean, where would they be if they stayed together after her 'not a yes but not a no' answer? How will he know when she's ready for him to propose again? Should he wait for her to propose? If they end up breaking up, will he resent (or feel foolish for) having stayed with her after her 'not now' answer?

Rory tends to avoid hurting people with directness (probably because she seems like one of those people who doesn't want people to dislike her). Her "we can try long distance" was kind of wishywashy. Maybe Logan saw Rory's real answer as 'I'm not saying yes, but I'm not saying no, but only because saying no makes me the bad guy.'

There was a point in time where I thought 'Hey Rory, being engaged doesn't mean you have to get married right way. You can say yes, follow your career, and get married later, you know.' But then I realized Rory was right. What's the point of getting engaged if you know you're not going to even start planning the wedding in the foreseeable future? What's the point of following your career if you're already saying you're going to either pick a career path that factors in Logan or change your path for Logan later?

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I agree with a lot of what you said, takalotti. When they did long distance the first time it was under some of the best possible circumstances. He had access to a private jet and she was still in school and had somewhat of a steady schedule. They would know what to expect and could work around it.  And most importantly had an end date of a year. And it was still extremely difficult.

 

But Long-Distance when you're both starting time-consuming, mind consuming careers? With no end in sight? It would be really hard to maintain the intimacy and keep up with the changes. Rory especially hasn't experienced anything really real in life yet at that point. She has lived in a bubble of Stars hollow and Hartford and Yale. She's going to go through some major important growth during the next years of her life and its not something easily articulated to someone who's not there to see it and experience it with her. I think she was a little naive to suggest it and I think he might have gotten that.

[eledgy]

 

I honestly saw the intent behind the Logan proposing/California thing as him doing that guy thing where they think they have to fix instead of just listening. If I remember correctly Rory was on really unsteady ground about her life and career at that point. She had turned down the job and didn't get the fellowship. She had no plan and she was freaking, and he knew she needed a plan so he made one when he saw a path opening up for him in California. He looked at houses and checked out job prospects for her. He wasn't a planner but he was making plans because he knew she was and didn't have any at the moment. And I think he might have fallen in love with the the life he was starting to envision.

 

I agree with your take on this, RoyRogersMcF -  I think you make a really good point about the common male "fixing things" approach. I think this exchange from Lorelai, Lorelai, when he's still out in California, backs that up:

 

LOGAN: And, hey, don’t worry about the Times or the final or any of it. I have a feeling, in the next couple days, you will have moved on and forgotten all about this.

RORY: I don’t know.

LOGAN: Things will be looking up, I promise.

[Taryn74]

My 70-year-old mom, who finally gave into my pleas to watch the series this past year, turned to me at some point during S7 and remarked on how surprised she was to find that somewhere along the way she started genuinely liking Logan and his romance with Rory: "How did THAT happen?!"

 

 

HA!  That was pretty much my exact reaction!

[Aloeonatable]

 

On the one hand, I don't understand how a person can love someone enough to propose marriage, and yet call off the relationship if they don't get a resounding yes. If they get a 'No, I don't ever see myself marrying you,' then I understand because the person learned it's not going anywhere and they want to be free to find that with someone else. But that's not how Rory responded.

 

Though a somewhat different situation, Dean had a similar reaction when Rory didn't respond with an "I love you too." 

 

 

There was a point in time where I thought 'Hey Rory, being engaged doesn't mean you have to get married right way. You can say yes, follow your career, and get married later, you know.' But then I realized Rory was right. What's the point of getting engaged if you know you're not going to even start planning the wedding in the foreseeable future? What's the point of following your career if you're already saying you're going to either pick a career path that factors in Logan or change your path for Logan later?

 

Word. Rory didn't want to marry Logan then. She wanted to pursue a career of her own choosing, not try to find a job to fit into his plans. She may have loved him, but she loved the idea of making her own way more.

[takalotti]

Though a somewhat different situation, Dean had a similar reaction when Rory didn't respond with an "I love you too." 

 

Well, (1) I didn't understand Dean's reaction then, either, for the same reasons (2) to me, similar only in the sense that it ended in a breakup when they didn't get their desired responses from Rory because (3) they differed in that Dean was rather angry (I get that it came from feeling humiliated, but still, inappropriately angry IMO) and Logan was not.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Well, (1) I didn't understand Dean's reaction then, either, for the same reasons (2) to me, similar only in the sense that it ended in a breakup when they didn't get their desired responses from Rory because (3) they differed in that Dean was rather angry (I get that it came from feeling humiliated, but still, inappropriately angry IMO) and Logan was not.

Also, Dean was a teenager probably saying it for the first time. Teens can be stupid, and don't always handle hurt feelings in a rational manner and tend to lash out. Plus Logan had quite a bit of time where he could have possibly thought through what Rory's various responses could be, and what they would mean, and how he would handle the situation.

 

I have to say I really like this message board. Especially this thread in particular because I'm a big Logan fan and as someone mentioned his character is very polarizing and it can be hard to find people that will discuss his character(love him or hate him) in a civil, respectful, non-judgemental manner.

Edited January 4, 2015 by RoyRogersMcFreely

[LeafontheWind]

Having just finished my Netflix binge watch, I appreciate the setup that the audience was given regarding Rory's choice to turn down this proposal. When Paris and Doyle have their "break-up" after she gets all of her medical school acceptance letters, the two girls have a great conversation about how young they are and how important these choices are. Rory makes it very clear in that conversation that she loves Logan, but isn't ready to put him first. She hesitates to phrase it that way, but that was the feeling I was left with. She knows what she wants and is ready to go after it, even if it means she and Logan can't be together.

While I was never a huge fan of Logan, there were times when I genuinely appreciated his relationship with Rory. He did help her grow, in some ways, and I think he was good for her in the end. However, I am still hoping she ended up with Jess in the end :)

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Having just finished my Netflix binge watch, I appreciate the setup that the audience was given regarding Rory's choice to turn down this proposal. When Paris and Doyle have their "break-up" after she gets all of her medical school acceptance letters, the two girls have a great conversation about how young they are and how important these choices are. Rory makes it very clear in that conversation that she loves Logan, but isn't ready to put him first. She hesitates to phrase it that way, but that was the feeling I was left with. She knows what she wants and is ready to go after it, even if it means she and Logan can't be together.

While I was never a huge fan of Logan, there were times when I genuinely appreciated his relationship with Rory. He did help her grow, in some ways, and I think he was good for her in the end. However, I am still hoping she ended up with Jess in the end :)

 

i think you're right they did a good job foreshadowing what the end would be. I also think they did pretty well in hinting that Logan was in deeper or looking longer term than Rory for quite a while. Starting with him sending rocket and its meaning, all the while she's got some pretty big doubts about them in that episode. Then in the episode where she flirts innocently with the T.A. and guiltily tells Logan then they have the "Do you belong to me" conversation that makes it seem like Logan is way more cool with and sure of them than Rory seems. Somewhere along the way it felt like he leapfrogged her.

[Tangerine]

From the Rory and Jess thread:

Jess demanded a level of realness that I never saw from Logan. Rory and Logan played house and while Rory was good for Logan, I can't say that Logan was good for Rory.  He enabled her when she was at her worst and really didn't prove to be dependable when it counted.  (Plus the whole expecting her to drop her dreams for the privilege of marrying him)

 

I have to disagree with this. Logan was definitely a harder character to relate to because everything about his world was so over the top. He came from privilege, he went on expensive and ridiculous excursions with his secret society, but I never got the sense he was playacting when it came to his relationship with Rory. I thought there was genuine affection there and I don't think his proposal to Rory was because he wanted her to be a good housewife. I think the fact that Rory was driven, intelligent and ambitious was part of the reason why Logan liked her, so I don't think he was aiming to change that. Rory was at a crossroads in her life, and I think Logan thought that he would be able to give her some stability at least in one aspect of her life through the proposal.

 

I don't think he enabled her at her worst, but he was definitely not equipped to help her when she had her breakdown. He had expected her to be back at school within a month. The fact that Logan had pretty much every single one of his life decisions made for him probably stopped him from trying to be too pushy when it came to Rory's choices.

[BkWurm1]

I have to disagree with this. Logan was definitely a harder character to relate to because everything about his world was so over the top. He came from privilege, he went on expensive and ridiculous excursions with his secret society, but I never got the sense he was playacting when it came to his relationship with Rory. I thought there was genuine affection there and I don't think his proposal to Rory was because he wanted her to be a good housewife. I think the fact that Rory was driven, intelligent and ambitious was part of the reason why Logan liked her, so I don't think he was aiming to change that. Rory was at a crossroads in her life, and I think Logan thought that he would be able to give her some stability at least in one aspect of her life through the proposal.

 

I don't disagree that there were genuine feelings, but I do think they quite often seemed to be playing parts.  Going back to the trip to Cape Cod with the brunch and the little routines and traditions, they were a pretense, a playtime, not real life, enjoyable but just surface stuff.  So much of their interaction was Rory splashing around in new waters and while she was very good at blending and belonging in the moment, for me at least, it never felt real or at least permanent.  Just not something she was supposed to become in the long run. 

 

My objection to his proposal stems from feeling like if he really knew Rory and her dreams and ambitions, he would never have asked.  It frustrated me all the time that he was away in London and she was trying to make it work and now when she was probably going to be away or wrapped up in a career thing, he wasn't willing to make the same sacrifices.  He very likely meant only the best but it just proved to me that their time together was not meant to be a long term thing.

 

I don't think he enabled her at her worst, but he was definitely not equipped to help her when she had her breakdown. He had expected her to be back at school within a month. The fact that Logan had pretty much every single one of his life decisions made for him probably stopped him from trying to be too pushy when it came to Rory's choices.

 

She said steal me a boat and he stole her a boat and the maddening thing was he probably could have made a call or walked up to someone with a boat and flashed some cash and legally obtained a vessel to let them be one with the ocean.  He wasn't the source or even cause of most of Rory's problems but too often he was part of the tide carrying her out to sea.  The funny thing about Logan is I never hated him.  He was fun and charming, though yes, in the early days frequently thoughtless to a level of almost casual cruelty but I saw his appeal and didn't feel like he was acting with intended maliciousness.  I liked that he challenged Rory to expand her horizons but at some point Rory got more than a little lost and I do blame Logan to a point because while Rory tended to ground him, she was often left adrift. 

 

Rory didn't IMO need someone telling her what to do or how to do it or constantly questioning her, but she needed people in her life that didn't sugar coat the truth or life or grin broadly and whisk her away to the next distraction.  Oddly that's probably why she and Paris eventually became real friends.  Rory could get her head lost in the clouds pretty easily.  She also could get overwhelmed by all the changes and choices and decisions she faced.  She was happiest with a plan and Logan was by his very nature anti-plan.  I won't say that Jess was pro-plan by any measure but with him, I felt he pushed her to question her plans and test them but Logan made her just ignore or forget about them in favor of the easy path or the more pleasant now.

 

It's not fair to say that Logan was a phony because I really don't think he was but he knew how to operate in a phony world and sometimes for someone kind of on the outside of that, like Rory, it gets hard to tell what's real.  I felt that Rory got a little lost in Logan at the expense of herself, but in the end when the insulated world and structure of college was going away, she had to look to the future and despite her disappointments, she did reconnect with what her dreams and ambitions were and had always been and I couldn't help feel that Logan didn't know the real Rory or maybe she didn't let him completely get to know her or maybe she was deceiving them both.  By the end of Yale, she was, as Logan told her, one of them in all intents and purposes, but that was part of the act she was putting on. 

 

Be careful of what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. 

 

Perhaps it was Rory that had learned too well to operate in a phony world and led Logan to believe she was willing to be something she was not.

 

I don't hate Logan, and I didn't hate their relationship.  I believed that Rory did love him and he her but I also was certain the moment he started talking about marriage that the answer was going to be no.  I was as certain as it was possible to be about fictional characters on TV and now I have to wonder if given the ultimatum, he suspected that Rory's graduation would be marking more than just one ending. He took his shot and I can't blame him but I don't think Rory was her best self or could become her best self with Logan.

 

To be fair, who she would have become had she said yes to his proposal wouldn't have been a terrible person and the life they would have had wouldn't have been unpleasant at all, but for who she was shown to be all through the series, she couldn't have been Mrs. Huntsberger and stayed that same person at her core.  

 

At least that's how I see it. 

[ghoulina]

To be fair, who she would have become had she said yes to his proposal wouldn't have been a terrible person and the life they would have had wouldn't have been unpleasant at all, but for who she was shown to be all through the series, she couldn't have been Mrs. Huntsberger and stayed that same person at her core.

 

I completely agree. It would have been fine, but (to quote Jess) - "That's not you,Rory". 

 

 

He enabled her when she was at her worst and really didn't prove to be dependable when it counted.

 

I completely agree that Logan enabled Rory to make some really bad decisions. But I do think he became more dependable as time went on. The thing that really stands out for me is how much help he was when Richard had his heart attack. He was at the hospital daily and dealing with the fish guy. Logan was really ready to step up and be a part of her world and her family. But, as I posted earlier, I don't think I could ever trust 100% that that entitled dick wouldn't come back out. 

[BkWurm1]

I completely agree that Logan enabled Rory to make some really bad decisions. But I do think he became more dependable as time went on. The thing that really stands out for me is how much help he was when Richard had his heart attack. He was at the hospital daily and dealing with the fish guy. Logan was really ready to step up and be a part of her world and her family. But, as I posted earlier, I don't think I could ever trust 100% that that entitled dick wouldn't come back out.

 

It's stuff like Logan stepping up and being there during Richard's heart attack time that makes him a more than a 2 dimensional character, all teeth and flash.  He did care about Rory and he didn't run away from family crises but he still in the end couldn't be depended on to fully take into account the kind of life Rory really wanted. His ambitions and goals and assumptions always in the end trumped everything.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

He did care about Rory and he didn't run away from family crises but he still in the end couldn't be depended on to fully take into account the kind of life Rory really wanted. His ambitions and goals and assumptions always in the end trumped everything.

 

I'm not sure this is quite fair. At the time of the "factoring in" conversation Rory had two prospects in the air and Logan didn't have anything yet. So it made sense to follow Rory"s lead in that situation. But then those prospects fell through. Then, Logan got the offer in California. Thought processes change, as situations and circumstances change. He might have thought since he had this opportunity that they could try out the California thing for a while since she had nothing at that point. He probably thought it didn't make much since for both to be idle, especially after making his case to Lorelai about how serious he was about making it on his own. Maybe he saw it as he would sacrifice in certain situations and she would sacrifice in certain situations. Like a true partnership. 

 

This could also be my Logan bias talking.

 

[cheezwhiz346]

I'm so ambivalent about Logan and Rory as a couple. The first run-through of the show, I absolutely hated him, largely because of his casual condescension in season 5, and because the type of character I could feel Rory was becoming during that time. I could tell that he genuinely liked Rory, but I felt like the qualities he liked about her most weren't really the qualities I, as a viewer, had come to appreciate about her over the years. I felt like he liked her in a bit of a patronizing way (oh, she's so sweet/principled but in a naive way/book-ish but fairly easily won over by my own arguments/cares about things like how much things cost/etc.). I think he thought she was adorable and just smart/confident enough to entertain him/keep his interest without really challenging him. And I'm not blaming him for that, because a lot of that is Rory (or at least was at that point in the show), but I ultimately think him liking those qualities about her was what prevented her from really getting more out of the relationship. And maybe she needed that; maybe she needed Logan to be a part of that time in her life when she's questioning a lot about herself and life. But I never saw him as someone who was the right one for her for the long haul. I thought they could be sweet and loving together, ultimately, and it's not that he was necessarily bad for her, but I really didn't get a 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' feeling from them as a couple. I'm not sure how well I phrased all that, but my thoughts on them are kind of rambling/all over the place, anyway.

Edited January 5, 2015 by damngoodcoffee

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I'm so ambivalent about Logan and Rory as a couple. The first run-through of the show, I absolutely hated him, largely because of his casual condescension in season 5, and because the type of character I could feel Rory was becoming during that time. I could tell that he genuinely liked Rory, but I felt like the qualities he liked about her most weren't really the qualities I, as a viewer, had come to appreciate about her over the years. I felt like he liked her in a bit of a patronizing way (oh, she's so sweet/principled but in a naive way/book-ish but fairly easily won over by my own arguments/cares about things like how much things cost/etc.). I think he thought she was adorable and just smart/confident enough to entertain him/keep his interest without really challenging him. And I'm not blaming him for that, because a lot of that is Rory (or at least was at that point in the show), but I ultimately think him liking those qualities about her was what prevented her from really getting more out of the relationship. And maybe she needed that; maybe she needed Logan to be a part of that time in her life when she's questioning a lot about herself and life. But I never saw him as someone who was the right one for her for the long haul. I thought they could be sweet and loving together, ultimately, and it's not that he was necessarily bad for her, but I really didn't get a 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' feeling from them as a couple. I'm not sure how well I phrased all that, but my thoughts on them are kind of rambling/all over the place, anyway.

 

I can actually agree to a certain point about the beginning of the relationship. The turning point for me was him coming back to her after the break up, trying all his little tricks to win her back and when they didn't work, that cocky, smarmy, arrogant little turdboy that he was, humbled himself in front of Lorelai. And the woman who loves Rory beyond all reason saw at least enough genuine feeling in him to write that letter(whatever it said) that finally convinced Rory to take him back. He finally understood that he didn't always have to go for extravagance like the birkin bag, yes he still gave her jewelry and paid for apartments but he also sent her rockets with meaning and care packages for uplifting spirits. And I think she challenged him a great deal. First to be a boyfriend period, then to be a good boyfriend because I think there was a difference in Logan pre-first break up and post, then to go to London scared as he was and strong as she was to let him go, and I think what truly shook him from his funk after his deal at the company went south was the fight with Rory when she said she was beginning to see him as a jerk. After that he went to his father quit, then came to apologize.

 

Regarding the long haul point. Myself, I go back and forth and sometimes sideways when thinking about Rory's future. I can see her happy and fulfilled with either Jess or Logan in the land of fanfiction where characters are allowed to grow and learn from mistakes. Sometimes I hope she finds better than both of them because every guy on this show you could rate on a scale of dumbass or that after the inevitable happens and Doyle dies young of stress and Paris, she's harangued into helping Paris hilariously raise the kids. I personally think no relationship she was ever going to have on the show would be lasting, because they weren't interested in her destination, it was about her potential and promise of the future.

[BkWurm1]

I personally think no relationship she was ever going to have on the show would be lasting, because they weren't interested in her destination, it was about her potential and promise of the future.

 

It's hard to write a forever kind of love for someone in their early twenties fresh out of college.  Sure, lots of people do find a marriage partner during their college years but then again 50% of them get a divorce partly because they are still undergoing so many changes in what they want and who they are. 

 

Maybe that's why I do fall back to the allure of a future Jess/Rory romance.  It's always something I imagine working five or ten or even fifteen years down the road.  It's still about the potential the growth, and the payoff of waiting for the right time.  Maybe it's my bias speaking but when I play the "what would Logan be like in the future" game, I don't find a lot to get excited about. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

Maybe that's why I do fall back to the allure of a future Jess/Rory romance.  It's always something I imagine working five or ten or even fifteen years down the road.  It's still about the potential the growth, and the payoff of waiting for the right time.  Maybe it's my bias speaking but when I play the "what would Logan be like in the future" game, I don't find a lot to get excited about.

 

I totally respect that. While I lean towards Logan/Rory myself, I certainly understand the appeal of Jess/Rory to their fans. I think that is the beauty of where they left Rory at the end of the show. Her future can be whatever someone one wants to imagine it to be.

[Aloeonatable]

Yesterday I watched the episode where Richard and Emily learn how horrible Logan's family treated Rory at dinner. Both Richard and Emily confront Mitchum and Shira with harsh words. Why then was Emily so wanting Rory to marry Logan? I know Emily values money, position, and "good families," but why in the world would she want Rory to be in that family?

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Yesterday I watched the episode where Richard and Emily learn how horrible Logan's family treated Rory at dinner. Both Richard and Emily confront Mitchum and Shira with harsh words. Why then was Emily so wanting Rory to marry Logan? I know Emily values money, position, and "good families," but why in the world would she want Rory to be in that family?

 

I think she might have saw that sort of thing as a necessary evil to endure in that world. Given the way she was treated by Trix and the fact that she pushed Christopher on Lorelai even though she saw him as a weak pathetic sort and his parents were monstrous about Rory. She wanted a certain life for the girls, come hell or high water.

[ghoulina]

I think she might have saw that sort of thing as a necessary evil to endure in that world. Given the way she was treated by Trix and the fact that she pushed Christopher on Lorelai even though she saw him as a weak pathetic sort and his parents were monstrous about Rory. She wanted a certain life for the girls, come hell or high water.

 

Agreed. She was never treated well by Trix, and then later found out that the damn woman tried to sabotage her marriage! So I think she just assumed that nasty inlaws were par for the course. There were times when Richard mentioned wanting "more" for Rory (sort of alluding to more than Emily had), but Emily always seemed to get really defensive about that idea and thought her life was just fine for her granddaughter. Also, it's possible that Emily thought after she had put Shira in her place that she would be nicer to Rory going forward? 

[amensisterfriend]

I totally respect that. While I lean towards Logan/Rory myself, I certainly understand the appeal of Jess/Rory to their fans. I think that is the beauty of where they left Rory at the end of the show. Her future can be whatever someone one wants to imagine it to be.

 

Amen! I think that's why the only fanfic I've ever written (and, don't worry, I won't subject you guys to it!) turned out to be about Rory/Jess and Rory/Logan. (With a liberal dose of the Rory/Paris friendship sprinkled in, of course!) I find both characters and relationships weirdly intriguing, albeit deeply flawed. I could see either OR neither working out. I did get more of that inexplicable, soulmate-y, meant-to-be-even-if-sometimes-you-wish-it-weren't connection between Jess and Rory, but I attribute a lot of that to the chemistry between AB and MV, who were dating in real life. 

 

As noted above, I find myself really liking S7 Logan/Rory this time around. It makes me wonder how showrunner DR, who IMO wrote romance with more warmth, affection, charm and connection than AS-P, might have written Rory/Jess if he had popped back into the picture at that time. I'm also curious as to whether  DR had always intended to break up Logan/Rory at the end of the season---so much of the season seemed devoted to showing their individual and joint growth and how they navigated successfully through various conflicts that, even for someone who had always been more of a Jess/Rory fan, the Rory/Logan breakup felt kind of jarring for me. I wonder if the network executives 'suggested' that Rory end the series single. (Which I do understand and even support, though it just didn't necessarily feel consistent with what we had seen that season.) 

[amensisterfriend]

I found a couple of other favorite Logan/Rory scenes: Their bittersweet parting in, well, Partings (bonus points because it's one of the few times that Alexis' crying was even a little bit convincing to me!), "Normal is not why you love me" in the otherwise rather dreadful Lorelai's Planetarium, Rory by his bedside in Super Cool Party People and Logan's assurance that she couldn't have stopped him, coupled with his tacit admission that he didn't know why he was being so self-destructive but knew it had to stop, etc.

 

Another least favorite: Every time he calls her Ace. Ugh. I'm all for nicknames, but Ace sounds like the name of a pet to me, and somehow it comes off as so patronizing and condescending. I get that it's supposed to stem from him encouragingly thinking she's an "ace reporter" or whatever, but it just makes me cringe. Couldn't he have taken to calling her something else?! 

Edited January 8, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Aloeonatable]

 

Another least favorite: Every time he calls her Ace. Ugh. I'm all for nicknames, but Ace sounds like the name of a pet to me, and somehow it comes off as so patronizing and condescending. I get that it's supposed to stem from him encouragingly thinking she's an "ace reporter" or whatever, but it just makes me cringe. Couldn't he have taken to calling her something else?!

 

I don't like the nickname either. Then again, I don't like most words of endearment like honey, sweetie or sugar.  What's wrong with calling her by her name. Rory is her nickname anyway. The more I think about it, how do you get Rory from Lorelai?

[Llywela]

The more I think about it, how do you get Rory from Lorelai?

Lorelai - Lori - Rory. I guess.

 

Did Lorelai herself give her daughter the nickname Rory, or was it adopted later because Rory herself struggled to say her own name as a toddler? Were we ever told? I have an aunt named Lesley, who has always been known in the family as Lel or Lelly because her younger brother couldn't say her name properly as a toddler and it stuck, so Rory never seemed that odd to me, somehow.

[ghoulina]

Count me in on hating Ace. It just sounds too platonic to me. 

 

 

As for Rory, I don't think it was ever clearly explained, but I'm guessing that the child herself made the mispronouncement and it stuck. Her middle name is Leigh, so I guess I can see how if her mother said Lorelei Leigh very fast (and they DO talk fast) it might sound sort of similar to Rory. To a child at least. 

[larapu2000]

I like Logan, but I have always found it impossible to believe that Logan of The Rocket would propose to Rory in a public forum.  

 

I also think a lot of Logan's worst qualities were just based in youthful arrogance in a way, so he got a pass from me because he always seemed kind at heart.  I thought he was written pitch perfect as the "college guy," and I think Logan did more to tie Rory to Yale than Dean or Jess would have done.  He got her involved and connected with other students when she appeared to be operating on a "I'm friends with 2 people at Yale, and that is enough" basis.  

 

I also don't think it's on him that Rory dropped out of Yale, nor do I think that it was his job to kick her ass about it.  He took time off from Yale and came back, so why would he think that she wouldn't return when she was ready?  

 

One of my favorite moments is when Logan and friends bring her home from the Emily/Richard dude party, it just seemed like they were having a really fun time.  (Bonus:  that's when Dean finally goes away).  I also love the exchange in the library between the two of them before they start dating when Rory is showing the Chilton kid around.

[amensisterfriend]

He took time off from Yale and came back, so why would he think that she wouldn't return when she was ready?

 

One thing I really appreciated this time around was that Logan actually didn't seem to want Rory to be the 'queen of the sloth', DAR party girl; he seemed to always know and appreciate that she was a different type of person with different goals than the usual Life and Death brigade-y types. If my memory weren't so lousy these days, especially when it comes to the dreadful S6, I could offer a few specific examples! Rather than totally and magically transforming each other, I tend to think Rory and Logan were both at stages of their lives where they were ready to change anyway---Rory going through the rebellious, uncertain 'finding herself' stage she never experienced during her teens, and Logan ready to (slowly but surely!) grow up. 

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in cringing my way through every utterance of "Ace."

 

 

 

(Bonus:  that's when Dean finally goes away)

 

Ha! 

Edited January 9, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[ghoulina]

I, in no way, blame Logan for Rory quitting Yale. That was all her. And, I think when she first did it, he assumed she'd get over that stage fairly quickly and be back in the fall. Once that time came and went, and she was all wrapped up in her DAR parties and what-not, I think it DID bother him.Logan specifically fell for Rory because she was the antithesis of all the girls he'd been around his entire life. But he just wasn't the type to challenge her like that. He was going to wait it out, whereas Jess was the type to say - "Hey, what are you doing? This isn't like you!" I'm not saying either way is better than the other, they were just very different.