Empire in the Media: Read It In Billboard

[pennben]

On 3/3/2019 at 9:38 PM, jsbt said:

Will we, though? 

No!  Nor should anyone  

Honestly. 

[Biggie B]

Is this show coming back, or has it been shelved?

[Dee]

Empire returns next Wednesday!

[jsbt]

[Rickster]

NBC said there could be separate Federal charges related to mailing himself a fake death threat.

[Apprentice79]

16 counts sounds excessive in my opinion. I hope they don't send him to prison.  A stiff fine and his ruined reputation is enough punishment for me.  He will never work in Hollywood and his name will forever be met with derision, mockery and shame. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

NBC said there could be separate Federal charges related to mailing himself a fake death threat.

Well, no sympathy here. Do the crime, do the time. ETA: Or vice versa, which has been corrected.

[Ohwell]

I could have had a bit of sympathy for him if he had apologized immediately after the incident, and not sat there and lied his ass off during that Robin Roberts interview.  As it stands, if convicted, he needs to suffer the same consequences as anyone else in that situation. 

[jsbt]

I'm in a strange spot in that I agree that it both seems excessive and that I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

[RealReality10]

6 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

16 counts sounds excessive in my opinion. I hope they don't send him to prison.  A stiff fine and his ruined reputation is enough punishment for me.  He will never work in Hollywood and his name will forever be met with derision, mockery and shame. 

I think that the strategy is to go for a high number of counts and then use it as potential leverage to negotiate a deal.

[thebigboot]

13 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

16 counts sounds excessive in my opinion. I hope they don't send him to prison.  A stiff fine and his ruined reputation is enough punishment for me.  He will never work in Hollywood and his name will forever be met with derision, mockery and shame. 

Excessive? No prison? Can’t say I agree with you. Faking a hate crime in this day and age is unacceptable. He earned his ruined reputation, and just think, if he’s connected to the threats sent to him in the mail then it becomes a federal issue. 

Bottom line is if Jussie didn’t want this to happen, he should have never done it. Everything that happens from here on out is deserved.

[Apprentice79]

5 hours ago, thebigboot said:

Excessive? No prison? Can’t say I agree with you. Faking a hate crime in this day and age is unacceptable. He earned his ruined reputation, and just think, if he’s connected to the threats sent to him in the mail then it becomes a federal issue. 

Bottom line is if Jussie didn’t want this to happen, he should have never done it. Everything that happens from here on out is deserved.

Black people are often punish harsher than White people who have committed the same crimes. Just like nobody cares when Black women and Black children disappear in comparison to their White counterparts. Our society treat people who are addicted to Opioids with compassion and understanding. Whereas, crack heads were locked up for life, with no chance at redemption or treatment for their illness, I wonder why.  I think Jussie being a pariah and ruined for life is much worst than being put in a prison cell.  An artist like him not being able to create art is a special type of hell on Earth. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Apprentice79

[Artsda]

TMZ has info on the testimony, how they rehearsed and Jussie made his own hate mail. 

He's ruined his life over this plot.

[thebigboot]

5 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Black people are often punish harsher than White people who have committed the same crimes. Just like nobody cares when Black women and Black children disappear in comparison to their White counterparts. Our society treat people who are addicted to Opioids with compassion and understanding. Whereas, crack heads were locked up for life, with no chance at redemption or treatment for their illness, I wonder why.  I think Jussie being a pariah and ruined for life is much worst than being put in a prison cell.  An artist like him not being able to create art is a special type of hell on Earth. 

The irony of using racism to defend someone who faked a hate crime, and just might be the one to send the threats through the mail is hilarious. 

That being said, he was given a second chance after he lied to police about his identity during his DUI case. He should have embraced that and kept his nose clean. He didn’t, he is responsible for his own actions. 

[Dee]

Queen Latifah Is Standing By Jussie Smollett Until She Sees ‘Definitive Proof’ He Lied

Quote

“Until I can see some definitive proof — which I haven’t seen yet — then, you know, I gotta go with him until I see otherwise,” she said. 

[Artsda]

2 minutes ago, Dee said:

Queen Latifah Is Standing By Jussie Smollett Until She Sees ‘Definitive Proof’ He Lied

What more does she want?  The 2 men he paid testified to the grand jury.  

[Margohill]

7 minutes ago, Dee said:

Queen Latifah Is Standing By Jussie Smollett Until She Sees ‘Definitive Proof’ He Lied

Queen Latifah has a right to her opinion but I think the damage is done. She can never reverse that damage because she chooses to stand by him.

Majority believes JS lied and created a fake assault and went on a major TV interview (GMA) and double downed on it. 

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, thebigboot said:

The irony of using racism to defend someone who faked a hate crime, and just might be the one to send the threats through the mail is hilarious. 

That being said, he was given a second chance after he lied to police about his identity during his DUI case. He should have embraced that and kept his nose clean. He didn’t, he is responsible for his own actions. 

I never defended him and I don't think prison is the answer either, in my opinion..

Edited March 10, 2019 by Apprentice79

[RealReality10]

4 hours ago, Artsda said:

What more does she want?  The 2 men he paid testified to the grand jury.  

Sadly, this line of ridiculous reasoning as been used before, but I thought queen latifah was above it. 

It's the same thing when, in spite of the wealth of evidence against him, certain people, to this day, claim that there is not "definitive proof" that OJ did it.  I guarantee there will be certain people who say the same thing when r. Kelly's trial comes around.  It's certainly not limited to those two examples, there will be people who straight up ignore the evidence against Casey Anthony, because there wasn't an eyewitness so the proof isn't "definitive"

I think this "well, the proof is only 95% and until I see 100% there is reasonable doubt" just the person espousing that view look terribly biased to the point of being untrustworthy.

[RealReality10]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I never defended him and I don't think prison is the answer either, in my opinion..

I was thinking about this earlier because someone had made the point that 16 counts seemed high.

I feel like it's mostly strategy, and as I understand most criminal defendants in that county plead out.  So I think the high number of counts will likely be used as leverage to negotiate a deal, which I don't think would involve prison time

BUT I think any deal should be contingent on a full alocution.  Like he has to admit to everything in open court, no Alfred plea where he gets to say that he is just pleading guilty because he thinks there is enough evidence to convict.  That would be unacceptable.  He needs to make a full and public accounting and apology.  Because there should be no way for him to avoid jail and then try to spin some elaborate lie or defense if he gets interviewed by Oprah or whatever.

I think the high number of counts changes the risk / reward calculus.  I mean if there were just two counts, JS might think the reward of wiggling out of it would be worth the risk of a small amount of potential jail time.

And, I believe that just because the criminal counts come down doesn't mean that they can't later be dropped at the discretion of the prosecutor, but it's probably harder to convene.another grand jury to seek additional counts.

So ultimately, I think there is a good chance that JS doesn't see the inside of a jail....unless he wants to drag this out and go to trial.  And if he decides to drag this ugliness out, I think he will have rightfully earned whatever jail time he gets.

Edited March 10, 2019 by RealReality10

[thebigboot]

9 hours ago, RealReality10 said:

I was thinking about this earlier because someone had made the point that 16 counts seemed high.

I feel like it's mostly strategy, and as I understand most criminal defendants in that county plead out.  So I think the high number of counts will likely be used as leverage to negotiate a deal, which I don't think would involve prison time

BUT I think any deal should be contingent on a full alocution.  Like he has to admit to everything in open court, no Alfred plea where he gets to say that he is just pleading guilty because he thinks there is enough evidence to convict.  That would be unacceptable.  He needs to make a full and public accounting and apology.  Because there should be no way for him to avoid jail and then try to spin some elaborate lie or defense if he gets interviewed by Oprah or whatever.

I think the high number of counts changes the risk / reward calculus.  I mean if there were just two counts, JS might think the reward of wiggling out of it would be worth the risk of a small amount of potential jail time.

And, I believe that just because the criminal counts come down doesn't mean that they can't later be dropped at the discretion of the prosecutor, but it's probably harder to convene.another grand jury to seek additional counts.

So ultimately, I think there is a good chance that JS doesn't see the inside of a jail....unless he wants to drag this out and go to trial.  And if he decides to drag this ugliness out, I think he will have rightfully earned whatever jail time he gets.

At this point I’d be shocked if he pleaded out, he double downed and then triple downed on the whole situation. Even if the letters turn out not to be done by him, his situation with the DUI shows he has a history of this kind of behavior. I’d be willing to bet on some jail time.

[Anela]

22 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I never defended him and I don't think prison is the answer either, in my opinion..

I agree, but then I remember that I heard he was going to allow two white men to go to prison, when he heard they'd brought in suspects, until he found out it was the brothers. Then he said that he felt sorry for them. If he was okay with two innocent men going to prison, that is not okay. 

It also bothered me that he used a noose. Just... I can't imagine faking something anyway, but to that extent? I don't understand how anyone can do that. 

[jsbt]

I don't particularly care if he goes to prison and I never believed he'd serve time. His career and life as we know it being ruined is enough for me.

[RealReality10]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:30 AM, thebigboot said:

At this point I’d be shocked if he pleaded out, he double downed and then triple downed on the whole situation. Even if the letters turn out not to be done by him, his situation with the DUI shows he has a history of this kind of behavior. I’d be willing to bet on some jail time.

Looks like you're right that he is going to drag this ugliness out.  

https://amp.tmz.com/2019/03/11/jussie-smollett-check-training-osundairo-brothers-chicago-police/

[iwasish]

His high powered attorney Geragos is sending  his seccond/third string staff to attend these court hearings in Chicago. 

The brothers’ attorney has said the check was for “training and nutrition advice” AND other things. No one would pay someone 3500 bucks to be told to eat tuna and chicken. 

He’s going to try and drum up sympathy (from who I don’t know) and eventually take a plea. Then hopefully disappear. 

Empire producers will probably kill his character off in a plane crash. But I think the show won’t last more than another season. 

I thought his story was bogus right from the start and his interview with Robin Roberts sealed it. He Isn’t as good an actor as he thinks he is. 

[Dee]

Empire is still a huge hit show. It's not going anywhere.

[RealReality10]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Empire is still a huge hit show. It's not going anywhere.

It will be interesting to see how viewership fares due to the scandal.  

If JS is prominently featured in the new season as Jamal AND viewers see the same guy every day as real life JS dealing with a criminal fight it may reduce viewership.  Not because people assume he is guilty but because it breaks the ability to believe see JS on screen and not think of his real life situation instead of thinking about the storyline on empire.

For a long time I couldn't watch Tom cruise movies when he was really acting loudly about Scientology.  I don't really care about Scientology, but how can I lose myself in a movie about tomorrow cruise in mission impossible when all I'm thinking about is him jumping up and down on a couch.

But I agree that any network will focus on ratings.  Which is why JS will never be back on empire and they will have to work double time to get his stink off that show.

ETA: I guess it could be an issue

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/13/entertainment/empire-preview/index.html

Edited March 13, 2019 by RealReality10

[Margohill]

1 hour ago, RealReality10 said:

It will be interesting to see how viewership fares due to the scandal.  

If JS is prominently featured in the new season as Jamal AND viewers see the same guy every day as real life JS dealing with a criminal fight it may reduce viewership.  Not because people assume he is guilty but because it breaks the ability to believe see JS on screen and not think of his real life situation instead of thinking about the storyline on empire.

For a long time I couldn't watch Tom cruise movies when he was really acting loudly about Scientology.  I don't really care about Scientology, but how can I lose myself in a movie about tomorrow cruise in mission impossible when all I'm thinking about is him jumping up and down on a couch.

But I agree that any network will focus on ratings.  Which is why JS will never be back on empire and they will have to work double time to get his stink off that show.

ETA: I guess it could be an issue

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/13/entertainment/empire-preview/index.html

They should have given Andre (Trai) the most powerful storylines and scenes of the 3 brothers because he is a much better actor and deserved it. But no, no, no, for quite a long time it was all about Jamal even after he kicked his own mother out of the house in S2 and this is the thanks they get. Trai would never have let them down this way. Oh! well, I guess hindsight is 20/20.

[Dee]

All the articles written about Empire's supposed ratings "decline" are hilarious. Especially in this era when every show (especially long-running shows) are experiencing sharp ratings declines.

After 5 years, Empire remains the second biggest show on its network, in the Top 50 in overall ratings, top 10 (non-sports shows) in all desired demographics & regularly wins its timeslot nearly every week.

Other hit "watercooler" shows like How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal, Grey's Anatomy & Desperate Housewives experienced similar, (if not worse) "declines" but of course they get a pass. Wonder why......

Edited March 13, 2019 by Dee

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, Margohill said:

They should have given Andre (Trai) the most powerful storylines and scenes of the 3 brothers because he is a much better actor and deserved it. But no, no, no, for quite a long time it was all about Jamal even after he kicked his own mother out of the house in S2 and this is the thanks they get. Trai would never have let them down this way. Oh! well, I guess hindsight is 20/20.

To be fair, Jamal is an out and proud Gay Black man, something that is not seen everyday on tv.  I understand why Lee Daniels focused a lot on Jamal, but, it was not to the detriment of the other brothers. Representation matters and if Jamal's story can help young gay men of color become comfortable in their own skin, it was worth it..

[Dee]

In the early years of the show, Trai received lots of airtime, and in the aftermath of Rhonda's death, Andre has had a TON of story. The only reason he doesn't get more airtime is because Andre doesn't perform (and the show has even figured out inventive ways to circumvent that). 

[Margohill]

52 minutes ago, Dee said:

In the early years of the show, Trai received lots of airtime, and in the aftermath of Rhonda's death, Andre has had a TON of story. The only reason he doesn't get more airtime is because Andre doesn't perform (and the show has even figured out inventive ways to circumvent that). 

That's not true but anyway with the huge disgrace and horrible national scandal JS has brought this show, I bet Lee Daniels would have preferred Andre as the main center character of the 3 brothers anyday, anytime. This mess will get dragged in court and who knows if he gets a sentence. Well, that would be bad, really, really bad.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Margohill

[RealReality10]

7 hours ago, Dee said:

All the articles written about Empire's supposed ratings "decline" are hilarious. Especially in this era when every show (especially long-running shows) are experiencing sharp ratings declines.

After 5 years, Empire remains the second biggest show on its network, in the Top 50 in overall ratings, top 10 (non-sports shows) in all desired demographics & regularly wins its timeslot nearly every week.

Other hit "watercooler" shows like How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal, Grey's Anatomy & Desperate Housewives experienced similar, (if not worse) "declines" but of course they get a pass. Wonder why......

Could have been because their stars weren't involved in the same shenanigans that JS is? 

I don't think there is anything more nefarious there.

Isiah Washington is the one scandal I can think of off hand on those other shows, and he was fired pretty immediately, and he wasn't involved in an elaborate criminal hoax so I think the fallout was easier to manage.

[thebigboot]

17 hours ago, Dee said:

All the articles written about Empire's supposed ratings "decline" are hilarious. Especially in this era when every show (especially long-running shows) are experiencing sharp ratings declines.

After 5 years, Empire remains the second biggest show on its network, in the Top 50 in overall ratings, top 10 (non-sports shows) in all desired demographics & regularly wins its timeslot nearly every week.

Other hit "watercooler" shows like How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal, Grey's Anatomy & Desperate Housewives experienced similar, (if not worse) "declines" but of course they get a pass. Wonder why......

They probably get a pass because one of their stars didn’t get arrested and charged with faking a hate crime, most likely involved with sending threats through the mail after getting a second chance after lying to police. Just going out on a limb there.

[sempervivum]

It's now being reported that Jussie and fam tried to get a Michelle Obama aide to help move the initial investigation to the FBI as a hate crime, rather than leaving it with the Chicago PD, alleging that the police were 'leaking'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6809053/Jussie-Smollett-cheered-court-enter-plea.html

He also 'welcomes cameras' in the upcoming proceedings.🙄

[thebigboot]

7 hours ago, sempervivum said:

It's now being reported that Jussie and fam tried to get a Michelle Obama aide to help move the initial investigation to the FBI as a hate crime, rather than leaving it with the Chicago PD, alleging that the police were 'leaking'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6809053/Jussie-Smollett-cheered-court-enter-plea.html

He also 'welcomes cameras' in the upcoming proceedings.🙄

Wish I could eye roll this, Jussie and fam tripled down on this one. Maybe the FBI would be a great asset to put this to rest. I mean with all the other hate crimes going on seems to be caught on film and the such. Jussie seems to be the only “victim” with no evidence.

[SimoneS]

The ratings in the key demo for the return episode are down, 1.2 compared to 1.6 when it went off.  

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/wednesday-final-ratings-march-13-2019/

[RealReality10]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/44658/so-hows-empire-doing-after-smollett-debacle-not-james-barrett

This goes over a lot of the same things regarding the drop in viewership, which, I guess could be explained.

I DID find it interesting that JS's attorney called the 16 counts "prosecutorial overkill" which sounds like code for "yeah, my client did it, but it wasn't THAT bad, come on guys!"

[Dee]

The show returned down by a couple of points and about half a million viewers which isn't really a huge deal.

The winter finale tends to be one of the higher rated episodes of the season and viewers tend to watch less television in spring.

[saber5055]

I've never watched this show and had never heard of JS before the "attack," which I heard a lot about since I listen to Chicago talk radio. I'd think viewership would be up based on non-viewers wanting to see Jamal on the show, and Jussie's acting skills. I'd be a one-and-done though, after seeing Jussie on an episode. So I can see ratings spiking, then leveling. JMHO, of course!

[RealReality10]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I've never watched this show and had never heard of JS before the "attack," which I heard a lot about since I listen to Chicago talk radio. I'd think viewership would be up based on non-viewers wanting to see Jamal on the show, and Jussie's acting skills. I'd be a one-and-done though, after seeing Jussie on an episode. So I can see ratings spiking, then leveling. JMHO, of course!

I had sort of thought things might end up that way too.  It'll be interesting to see where ratings go from here.

[RealReality10]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/18/activists-call-on-naacp-to-drop-jussie-smolletts-image-award-nom.html

Annoyed with JS for making me agree with these people

[Margohill]

Post moved to the correct topic

Edited March 19, 2019 by Margohill

[jsbt]

[SimoneS]

Ugh, the key demo has slipped another point to 1.1. Hopefully, the show will rebound next season after there is some distance from this scandal.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-wednesday-march-20-2019/

[thebigboot]

7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Ugh, the key demo has slipped another point to 1.1. Hopefully, the show will rebound next season after there is some distance from this scandal.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-wednesday-march-20-2019/

Depends if they make a connection to the mail threats and when the trial is. 

[RealReality10]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Ugh, the key demo has slipped another point to 1.1. Hopefully, the show will rebound next season after there is some distance from this scandal.

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-wednesday-march-20-2019/

As far as I can remember the show was already losing some viewership though it remained very successful.  It's hard to tell if maybe the JS scandal is just causing viewers who were already kinda bored to leave faster?

This show has been wildly successful, and no show wants to jump the shark, so maybe it's time to think of a graceful way to end it in like 3 years or so.

[Dee]

The demo rebounded to a 1.2 to tie for the best of the night.

[RealReality10]

Meh, I don't know, still may be time to start thinking of an exit strategy at this point.  The ratings were already slipping, which is just a natural consequence IMO of being on the air for a number of seasons. 

Anecdotally, empire is not the show that everyone talks about at the watercooler anymore. 

To me, the show nearly jumped the shark when they started putting cookie in some weird outfits.  I did not watch empire for experimental fashion, I wanted to envy cookies hot looks!

But, in addition to the natural slip in ratings even before JS, now there is the JS controversy, the cast coming out publicly in support of JS even when there was mounting evidence against him and it all just distracts from the show.  Taraji is finding success in the film world and good for her.  I'm sure all the other cast and crew can find great opportunities after being on such a successful show.

Just seems like a good time to gracefully come up with an exit plan before the show is forced off the air. 

[Dee]

What show isn't slipping in the ratings? Every show on mainstream television is dropping sharply these days.

A couple of comedies on CBS and This Is Us (which has dropped heavily from last season) are not the benchmark for what constitutes a 'hit' tv show.

Empire is still a huge hit, still does strong numbers in a peak tv era and boasts one of the few predominately Black casts on mainstream television.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Dee