Empire in the Media: Read It In Billboard

[BuyMoreAndSave]

14 hours ago, RealReality10 said:

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-claims-he-has-an-untreated-drug-problem/amp/

I don't know how to clear my editor, but I'm going to drop this off here...any thoughts?

Given the level of stupidity involved (crime payout by check, really?) I'm not surprised at all that drugs were involved.

8 hours ago, jsbt said:

I feel so bad for them. They have all worked really hard on this show and now Jussie Smollett's idiocy is the #1 association the general public has with this show. I'm not surprised they continued to support him because they knew him for years and probably never thought he would stab them in the back like that. I still believe he may be a sociopath and he appears to have zero remorse for his actions and gives zero fucks about how it may have affected anyone else.

Edited February 23, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[jsbt]

Supposedly he claimed it was a problem with MDMA. Which is amusing, since I'm pretty sure molly does the opposite of making you fake hate crimes and betray and devalue everything you claim to stand for.

[thebigboot]

21 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Supposedly he claimed it was a problem with MDMA. Which is amusing, since I'm pretty sure molly does the opposite of making you fake hate crimes and betray and devalue everything you claim to stand for.

I was about to say, I’ve seen some people on molly and that certainly didn’t make them do this.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

Supposedly he claimed it was a problem with MDMA. Which is amusing, since I'm pretty sure molly does the opposite of making you fake hate crimes and betray and devalue everything you claim to stand for.

It's like the Roseanne thing where she claimed Ambien made her racist and the makers of Ambien tweeted that was not a side effect of the drug.

[Growsonwalls]

This is one of those situations where there's a rather simple, elegant solution that might solve a world of problems for Jussie Smollett: a sincere, no ands-ifs-or-buts apology to his fans, to the Chicago police, to the two brothers, to the whole entire Empire cast and crew, and to all the people on social media who didn't even know who he was but supported him. This will serve him well both in the courtroom and the court of public opinion.

But because Jussie seems to be one of those people who makes excuses for himself for a living, it's unlikely to happen.

[RealReality10]

4 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

It's like the Roseanne thing where she claimed Ambien made her racist and the makers of Ambien tweeted that was not a side effect of the drug.

It's especially bizarre because if you were under the influence of drugs or liquor, yeah maybe you do things you don't normally do, like steal 20 bucks, steal a car radio or pawn your parents vcr, but they don't make you suddenly organized over a course of days or weeks to send yourself a letter, discuss getting yourself beaten up and how you shouldn't be too hurt but just hurt enough and then write out a check.  Like what?  

[pennben]

16 hours ago, Dee said:

In the Jussie Smollett case, we don’t know what’s true, but we know what’s real

I’m sorry, but being older and having grown up on a farm, this strikes me as the epitome of “putting lipstick on a pig”.  Just nope to any credit to Smollett if this is a hoax. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. 

Also, him lying makes things better for actual victims.....lipstick/pig and big ole nope again.  Honestly  

Edited February 24, 2019 by pennben

[Margohill]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

This is one of those situations where there's a rather simple, elegant solution that might solve a world of problems for Jussie Smollett: a sincere, no ands-ifs-or-buts apology to his fans, to the Chicago police, to the two brothers, to the whole entire Empire cast and crew, and to all the people on social media who didn't even know who he was but supported him. This will serve him well both in the courtroom and the court of public opinion.

But because Jussie seems to be one of those people who makes excuses for himself for a living, it's unlikely to happen.

The worst was his performance on Good-morning America. I watch that clip and I can't imagine for the life of me how someone can pretend and even cry so effectively. It just makes my skin crawl and makes me extremely angry because even if a real victim shows grief and devastation about being victimized some may just think about JS's performance on GMA and dismiss them. How sad can things get?

This to me this represents such a selfish, self-centered person who only thinks about themself and no-one else. For all Empire and Lee Daniels have done for him, he never for once even thought about how this could affect real victims, his career, the show and all involved.

This is just sad all around. I watch new shows and see how some pundits struggle to talk about this whole debacle with expressions of embarrassment and shock on their faces. Others have a good laugh about it but it is no joke. Sad really. Lee Daniels must be besides himself right now. I know I would be fuming mad if I were in his shoes for this terrible betrayal. A huge stab in the back if you ask me.

[RealReality10]

5 minutes ago, Margohill said:

The worst was his performance on Good-morning America. I watch that clip and I can't imagine for the life of me how someone can pretend and even cry so effectively. It just makes my skin crawl and makes me extremely angry because even if a real victim shows grief and devastation about being victimized some may just think about JS's performance on GMA and dismiss them. How sad can things get?

This to me this represents such a selfish, self-centered person who only thinks about themself and no-one else. For all Empire and Lee Daniels have done for him, he never for once even thought about how this could affect real victims, his career, the show and all involved.

This x100,000,000.  That Robin Roberts interview was even worse, because like I've said, some people will never believe a victim, but most people are at least open to listening to a victim and trusting in their ability to smell a bullshit story.

Jussie Smollett being such a convincing liar basically makes even reasonable, normal people question their internal bullshit meter.  Which will make it harder for people to believe a real victim even when they sound believable.

[Growsonwalls]

Here is the full Robin Roberts interview. The UNFORGIVABLE line to me was "if my attacker was black or Muslim people would believe me." Knowing what we now know about his "attackers" indeed being two men of color, what he says here is so sociopathic. 

[Dee]

49 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

The UNFORGIVABLE line to me was "if my attacker was black or Muslim people would believe me."

The statement wasn't wrong though.

[mtlchick]

Terrance is standing by him.  He also has a lengthy reply to a comment.  

[jsbt]

The problem with Jussie's point in that disastrous interview is that his 'attackers' are black and people don't believe him. 🤔

[thebigboot]

10 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Terrance is standing by him.  He also has a lengthy reply to a comment.  

A wife abuser supports a hoaxer who’s lied to the police before. What a world we live in.

[Margohill]

28 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Terrance is standing by him.  He also has a lengthy reply to a comment.  

Here comes damage control. Leave the baby out of this. It's not working. JS has to come out himself, confess to his lies and give a full apology.

[Apprentice79]

5 minutes ago, Margohill said:

Here comes damage control. Leave the baby out of this. It's not working. JS has to come out himself, confess to his lies and give a full apology.

I don't think Jussie will ever do that. I would hate to call him a certain name for people like him, but, I am extremely uncomfortable going there, since I am not a therapist.  Terrence Howard needs to shut up, if he doesn't want a backlash to threaten the very existence of his show Empire.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Apprentice79

[RealReality10]

8 minutes ago, Margohill said:

Here comes damage control. Leave the baby out of this. It's not working. JS has to come out himself, confess to his lies and give a full apology.

It's like his team is just floating various things to see if they work.  Baby pictures, drug abuse, saying that the check was for a "nutritional program"

I agree that a full apology and explanation would be the decent thing to do, but I suspect he MIGHT do that when all other options have been exhausted.

Terence Howard is a good example of someone who needs to learn to let people go.  Sometimes people just aren't defendable based on their actions.  To me, it's almost as bad as people who defend racists by saying that they are somehow "good people"

[jsbt]

You don't hire Mark Geragos to confess and throw yourself on the mercy of the court. You hire him to obfuscate as much as possible.

[Dee]

Who's defending Jussie? What I said was his statement wasn't wrong.

As has been exhibited time & again, there has been a rush to put people of color under the microscope that does not happen to white people.

How many times have victims of police brutality been immediately treated like perpetual suspects? How many times have women of color been presumed to be angry & hostile for simply expressing an opinion? How many times have LGBT people of color gone ignored because the 'mainstream' LGBT community refuses to acknowledge its privilege? How many times have people of color been railroaded because they conveniently 'fit the description' of a crime that occurred?

The statement may not apply to Jussie, but it wasn't wrong.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Dee

[Dr.OO7]

On 2/19/2019 at 9:05 PM, dttruman said:

You think this will make it as an episode of SVU by the end of the season?

I think that's safe to say.

[RealReality10]

8 minutes ago, Dee said:

Who's defending Jussie? What I said was his statement wasn't wrong.

As has been exhibited time & again, there has been a rush to put people of color under the microscope that does not happen to white people.

How many times have victims of police brutality been immediately treated like perpetual suspects? How many times have women of color been presumed to be angry & hostile for simply expressing an opinion? How many times have LGBT people of color gone ignored because the 'mainstream' LGBT community refuses to acknowledge its privilege? How many times have people of color been railroaded because they conveniently 'fit the description' of a crime that occurred?

The statement may not apply to Jussie, but it wasn't wrong.

But I think this is all the more reason why JS has done such a disservice to both communities.  Because his story was nearly universally accepted without any real critical questioning.  Even trump, who I frankly despise (but I'm not judging those of you who are into him) said that what happened to JS was terrible.....without any lack of belief that it had occurred.

People were absolutely willing to accept his story about two white attackers that were racist and homophobic.

Now, next time a POC or gay person has a hate crime story and their justice relies on believing their story, how much harder will it be?  Whatever small progress has been made is invariably set back because of this incident.

Edited February 24, 2019 by RealReality10

[Dee]

There have been no setbacks because those people weren't being believed in the first place.

[jsbt]

But there will be, not just tomorrow but for years to come. That's the crux of it for me. What Jussie has done is doing so much damage to those exact causes. It's getting worse, not better, and he just helped exacerbate that effect. It's a betrayal of everything he claims to stand for, it emboldens the bigotry and persecution mindset of the Trump right, and it has put future LGBT and POC folks in danger from a system that is designed to disbelieve and doubt their stories and their burdens. And for what? All so he could preen on a stage and call himself the gay Tupac?

If you don't think it matters, we're not living with the same problems. And that's fine, but it doesn't make this crime or his actions any less reprehensible.

Edited February 24, 2019 by jsbt

[Dee]

The problem is people speaking over the most marginalized within marginalized communities to make one person emblematic of entire groups which they represent.

That is way more of a problem than anything Jussie did. Because it presumes that those people's voices don't matter.

If it's not enough to listen to, and actually heed what those very real people are saying, then it's not enough to claim setbacks for those communities.

[RealReality10]

11 minutes ago, Dee said:

There have been no setbacks because those people weren't being believed in the first place.

But they were apparently because js, a gay person of color was believed by nearly everyone without question.  And had has story been more than a hoax it would have meant an easier time for the next person to be believed.

[jsbt]

20 minutes ago, Dee said:

That is way more of a problem than anything Jussie did.

More of a problem than faking a hate crime for clout/a pay bump and enabling more disenfranchisement and devaluing of black and LGBT lives and abuse victims for years to come? Okay.

People have only recently begun listening to these/our varied communities within a deeply polarized society. The problem is that what Jussie has done will mean less people do in the future; it will also mean less people come forward, out of fear of their voice being associated with his and dismissed. That's because what he has done has already made him emblematic of those communities and voices in the eyes of countless right wing ideologues, bigots and media personalities who will continue to spread that gospel to an audience for a generation. And that pushback will continue to influence mainstream media and perspective. It shifts the window. That is the problem and that is a fundamental, vile betrayal. You can't talk about listening to those people without acknowledging that what Jussie Smollett has done has ensured that less people will hear or believe or protect them. That is his crime.

Edited February 24, 2019 by jsbt

[Margohill]

42 minutes ago, Dee said:

As has been exhibited time & again, there has been a rush to put people of color under the microscope that does not happen to white people.

And what do you think will happen going forward after this disastrous behaviour by JS? 

Why do you think people are so upset about this? All the issues the black and LGBTQ communities have been facing when it comes to being victimized and listened to has been worsened by what JS did.

If you think there has been a rush to put people of color under the microscope, I can guarantee you it will get even worse now and you can thank JS for that .

There is absolutely no excuse anyone can give for this disgraceful behaviour by JS because he has given homophobes, bigots and racists a gift. 

[Growsonwalls]

I'm so disturbed my the total lack of remorse from JS. He doesn't feel the slightest bit remorseful at the pain he's put his colleagues and supporters through?

[Dee]

20 minutes ago, jsbt said:

 You can't talk about listening to those people without acknowledging that what Jussie Smollett has done has ensured that less people will hear or believe or protect them. That is his crime.

Except those very people have made, have been making, and will continue to make the point that they were not (and still aren't) being believed in the first place; thereby rendering Jussie's actions as pointless & only reflecting on him.

White gays reducing Jussie to a symbol, instead of amplifying LGBT voices of color, is a clear example of exerting one's privilege to the extreme detriment of others.

Until the stratified nature of marginalized communities is acknowledged, the larger marginalized communities will continue to only serve those it has always served.

Hence why the aftermath of this entire debacle is focused on dogpiling Jussie, instead of genuine truth and reconciliation.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Dee

[Margohill]

18 minutes ago, Dee said:

Until the stratified nature of marginalized communities is acknowledged, the larger marginalized communities will continue to only serve those it has always served.

Roseanne Bar was fired immediately from a major show for making derogatory/racist statements.

19 minutes ago, Dee said:

Hence why the aftermath of this entire debacle is focused on dogpiling Jussie, instead of genuine truth and reconciliation.

In case you are missing the big picture, the majority of those "dogpiling" on JS are the people from his own community because what he has done only works to their disadvantage. This doesn't help them make their case in any way shape or form. On the other hand JS has just set them back in many ways in terms of having the larger community listen and pay attention to their plight. You can't expect the larger community to believe your story and reach a genuine reconciliation when members of your representation come out and fabricate lies and hoaxes. Their stories have to be based on the truth as well. JS has failed his community bigtime.

[Growsonwalls]

30 minutes ago, Dee said:

Except those very people have made, have been making, and will continue to make the point that they were not (and still aren't) being believed in the first place; thereby rendering Jussie's actions as pointless & only reflecting on him.

White gays reducing Jussie to a symbol, instead of amplifying LGBT voices of color, is a clear example of exerting one's privilege to the extreme detriment of others.

Until the stratified nature of marginalized communities is acknowledged, the larger marginalized communities will continue to only serve those it has always served.

Hence why the aftermath of this entire debacle is focused on dogpiling Jussie, instead of genuine truth and reconciliation.

"Dogpiling" on Jussie Smolett has been from people who were 100% supportive of him and he made them look like fools. This includes the producers of Empire who stood by him until he got arrested and have continued to maintain a dignified silence on the matter. 

It seems that you still want to think that JS is the victim here. He is not a victim. He is a man who knowingly planned a cruel hoax because he wanted attention and a salary step. 

[RealReality10]

34 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I'm so disturbed my the total lack of remorse from JS. He doesn't feel the slightest bit remorseful at the pain he's put his colleagues and supporters through?

And consider the disrespect to people who have been lynched.  I think of the pain and horror emmitt till.and his family went through and for someone to use that horrible legacy to get more money?  

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, RealReality10 said:

And consider the disrespect to people who have been lynched.  I think of the pain and horror emmitt till.and his family went through and for someone to use that horrible legacy to get more money?  

And George Stinney, and Trayvon Martin, and the Central Park 5, and the Scottsboro Boys, all young men who were killed/executed/wrong jailed and UNLIKE JS did not have tons of money, Hollywood influence, and widespread support from entire communities behind him. 

[thebigboot]

Dee, you know what’s funny. In the past 4 months 17 Jews have been physically assaulted, targeted for being Jewish. These assaults were caught on camera, and yet as a Jew I have yet to see outrage like Jussie’s bs has gotten. Maybe it’s because the people committing the assaults aren’t white Trump supporters? Who knows. Bottom line is, what Jussie did was a slap in the face to everyone. 

[RealReality10]

43 minutes ago, Dee said:

Except those very people have made, have been making, and will continue to make the point that they were not (and still aren't) being believed in the first place; thereby rendering Jussie's actions as pointless & only reflecting on him.

White gays reducing Jussie to a symbol, instead of amplifying LGBT voices of color, is a clear example of exerting one's privilege to the extreme detriment of others.

Until the stratified nature of marginalized communities is acknowledged, the larger marginalized communities will continue to only serve those it has always served.

Hence why the aftermath of this entire debacle is focused on dogpiling Jussie, instead of genuine truth and reconciliation.

See, I don't think it's as black and white as all that.  I think that there is a relatively small subset of people who will never believe a victim.  There is a relatively small subset who will always believe a victim.  

The larger majority are open either way and will generally trust their bullshit meter to determine whether or not they believe a victim.  This is part of the reason why the Robin Roberts interview was so awful, because js was so believable and now people will feel like they can't trust their internal bullshit meter....and it gives a great counterpoint for those who never believe a victim.

Jump high, jump low, no matter what position of believability the lgbtq, POC were in before, it is worsened by a gay POC faking a hate crime.  I just don't see how that point can be reasonably argued, though I think you make a valiant effort.

[jsbt]

Exactly. "These very people" include a lot of us, some in one category or the other or both, and it's not a hive mind. The fact is I feel Jussie Smollett's foolishness has fundamentally weakened the fight to preserve and protect people like me and made all sorts of folks less safe and less likely to be believed. You can dismiss that if you want to, but I suspect you won't find much company outside his legal team. There isn't any truth or reconciliation to be had in this situation if we can't acknowledge what Jussie has apparently done and call it dangerous and deeply hurtful and irresponsible, to say the very least. There is no deflecting to a larger issue without facing what's been done, and who did it.

[Dee]

It is a black and white issue. That's the point.

Those ultra marginalized within marginalized communities who have said they weren't being believed to begin with, have already condemned Jussie's actions. There was no giving him a free pass.

However there was no dogpiling or beating a dead horse because one person's actions will not change what has been happening to those ultra marginalized parties all along.

To make it about how Jussie affects the 'larger community' is to speak over those who are affected most. Hence why there's a stubborn refusal to cede any ground to LGBT POC on this issue.

Which makes those who make this the hill they want to plant their proverbial flag on, no better than Trump Supporters/ALT-Right.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Dee

[RealReality10]

10 minutes ago, Dee said:

It is a black and white issue. That's the point.

Those ultra marginalized in marginalized communities who have said they weren't being believed to begin with, have already condemned Jussie's actions. There was no giving him a free pass.

However there was no dogpiling or beating a dead horse because one person's actions will not change what has been happening to those ultra marginalized parties all along.

To make it about how Jussie affects the 'larger community' is to speak over those who are affected most. Which makes those who make that the hill they want to plant their proverbial flag on, no better than Trump Supporters/ALT-Right.

I see no logic in that argument because it assumes that how some people may react or feel is generally how everyone reacts or behaves to a crime victim.

How saying that the actions of a high profile victim who basically faked a hate crime and doubled down by sounding completely believable while lying about it on national television won't affect those in the middle who have open minds does not make any sense to me and seems like a way to marginalize the impact of js's actions and behavior and thereby relieve him of some of his responsibility.  Which I also do not understand at all.... particularly as js himself has undertaken to be a prominent voice in the POC lgbtq community.

How can you seek to be a prominent voice to represent a community on the one hand thereby seeking influence in behalf of that community and then on the other deny your influence?

Edited February 24, 2019 by RealReality10

[Margohill]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

White gays reducing Jussie to a symbol, instead of amplifying LGBT voices of color, is a clear example of exerting one's privilege to the extreme detriment of others.

All because Jussie has given them a very good reason to continue to do so which takes us back to reason why people have been very upset about Jussie's selfish, disgraceful behavior which is a betrayal to the very people you seem to be advocating for. 

He took time to fabricate a hoax, lied and even came on national TV to give an award winning performance. How is this not a gift to the racists and homophobes? 

[RealReality10]

24 minutes ago, Dee said:

So now you speak for "many others" instead of just yourself? Good to know.

Saying what he did was unacceptable & wrong is acknowledging what he did. Insisting the impact is bigger than it is is wrongheaded thinking and evidence of the stratification of privilege.

Except it hasn't. All that it's proved is privileges must be protected no matter whose necks get stepped on in the process.

No. For you it will mean continuing to big mad that LGBT people of color refuse to allow you to speak over them.

It's a bitter pill but you'll get over it.

I find your assertions hard to understand.  How can you know that JSs behavior doesnt affect the majority of Americans who are willing to believe a lgbtq person of color is a hate crime victim based on their word alone? 

Evidence that the majority of Americans are willing to believe the veracity of such an attack is evidenced by the fact that the majority of people believed jussie smolett was attacked without any evidence other than his word.

The majority of people took the word of a prominent high profile lgbtq person of color and were lied to...very convincingly lied to, in fact.  So yeah, that is going to have a deliterous impact on the willingness of the.majority of Americans open minded enough to believe that hate crimes happen

I do not know how this is "speaking over" people when it seems like it states a logical truth.

[RealReality10]

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/24/jussie-smollett-reportedly-has-evidence-to-dispute-police-claim/amp/

So, I guess jussie Smollett was paying $600 a week for a workout plan when he wasn't even going to be in the same city with the trainer and $100 a week for a meal plan that included Smuckers peanut butter and starkist tuna.  Neither is bad, but $100 a week for that?

I just can't.  Is the story now going to be that the brothers just decided to attack him for no good reason?  That they bought a bunch of supplies for the attack randomly?  Is it going to be that the brothers were coerced into a confession?  That people pay $100 a week to be told to eat Smuckers peanut butter and chicken breast? This story gets messier and messier.  

[jsbt]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Saying what he did was unacceptable & wrong is acknowledging what he did.

So, to be clear, you are now agreeing that what Jussie Smollett did was unacceptable and wrong. Much appreciated.

Quote

Insisting the impact is bigger than it is is wrongheaded thinking and evidence of the stratification of privilege.

That's your opinion. Another is that a studied pattern of dismissal of both the act and its potential consequences and people's feelings about it for days is its own form of privileged disinterest.

Quote

Except it hasn't.

Except it has. It's not just a workplace controversy. Jussie has been removed from the final episodes of the season. He will almost certainly lose his job. It is not a tempest in a teapot. And both LGBT and black fans have turned on him en masse. He's being dragged across the Internet from all corners; Jaboukie Young White nailed him on The Daily Show, Charles Barkley clowned him, among many others. These are facts - they may not fit your argument but they are what's happened, and they have nothing to do with any of us and everything to do with what he's done. And the reason any attempts to control this discussion and dismiss any and every black and queer poster who feels devalued and betrayed by this scam have failed is because in the end, it's just too big an ask for such a small person who did such a shitty thing for a payday.

Edited February 24, 2019 by jsbt

[Artsda]

If the brothers told the truth to the police then why would they tell the grand jury that the payment was for training?

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, RealReality10 said:

And consider the disrespect to people who have been lynched.  I think of the pain and horror emmitt till.and his family went through and for someone to use that horrible legacy to get more money?  

I have been thinking about this a lot. That noose represents the brutal merciless murders of thousands of Black men and women (though fewer than men) who were lynched by whites in the north and south. In some instances, whites would bring the kids and have picnics at the lynching. I think of Ida B. Wells who risked her life and lost her newspaper in Philly to publicize the evils of lynching exposing the truth; that they were being done to oppress Blacks who threatened white power and influence. Even now, white supremacists put nooses on campuses and homes to terrorize black people. Whole situation is horrific, but it enrages me that a Black person could perpetrate such a fraud knowing what the noose symbolizes about Black experience on top of the claims of the use of the N-word.

[Dee]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

So, to be clear, you are now agreeing that what Jussie Smollett did was unacceptable and wrong.

When did I ever say it wasn't?

Quote

Another is that a studied pattern of dismissal of both the act and its potential consequences for days is its own form of privileged disinterest.

No. The rate of actual hoaxes being dwarfed by the rise of hate crimes which began long before this Jussie debacle happened is proof that one person's actions do not "set us back,"

Quote

These are facts

No.

Jussie being removed from the final episodes is a fact.

Jussie losing his job is speculation.

LGBT & Black fans turning on Jussie en masse is conjecture.

Quote

And both LGBT and black fans have turned on him en masse.

Also the fact that you stated those labels as separate undercuts any potential points you were attempting to make.

Quote

And the reason any attempts to control this discussion

Which is what you're attempting to do. If you have an issue with others expressing their opinions, that's your fault.

[jsbt]

Just now, Dee said:

When did I ever say it wasn't?

So what Jussie Smollett did was unacceptable and wrong? Just checking.

No. The rate of actual hoaxes being dwarfed by the rise of hate crimes which began long before this Jussie debacle happened is proof that one person's actions do not "set us back,"

That is one opinion, yes. Do you acknowledge many other folks seem to disagree?

Jussie losing his job is speculation.

It's also exceedingly probable according to every major trade, with Lee Daniels apparently advocating a recast.

LGBT & Black fans turning on Jussie en masse is conjecture.

It's not exactly conjecture when both of us can use Google and Twitter. Or this forum. Or any forum, on Earth.

Also the fact that you stated those labels as separate undercuts any potential points you were attempting to make.

You separated them yourself many times, but there is certainly intersectionality for fans dragging him too, as you know.

[Dee]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

It's not exactly conjecture when both of us can use Google and Twitter. Or this forum. Or any forum, on Earth.

It's conjecture when neither of us speaks for everyone en masse.

Hence why it's important to heed marginalized voices instead of rushing to maintain the status quo.

Quote

You separated them yourself many times

Discussing the stratification of privilege is not separating identities. I've consistently advocated for amplifying voices that reflect the communities that Jussie purportedly represents, ie, Black & Gay. But acknowledging the points that a significant degree of that community has expressed/is expressing would greatly derail the plans of those that simply want to beat a dead horse.

[Dee]

Jussie Smollett and the Court of Public Opinion

Quote

This story is exceedingly abnormal, and it’s drawing the worst out of many of us, but it doesn’t speak for us either. It is not a symptom of the times or a commentary on the people living through them. It is a moment of colossal recklessness, a perfect ideological booby trap built to get inside people’s heads, if not to hold up very long under the scrutiny of a few detectives. This case isn’t an indictment of hate crimes, or people who say they’ve been assaulted, or people who vouch for hate crime and assault victims. The statistics on how often attacks of this nature go unreported or else unprosecuted, and how few attacks are proven false in court should speak for themselves. This case is not an indictment of blackness or queerness. Anyone who thinks so should spend more time listening to the concerns of people in both communities. By all appearances, this case is an indictment of a guy who had a good thing going and wanted more. Regardless of whatever happens to him, we have to refuse the urge to close ranks on each other. The lesson from this muck, if there is one, is to read patiently, speak carefully, and love endlessly.

[Apprentice79]

4 hours ago, RealReality10 said:

And consider the disrespect to people who have been lynched.  I think of the pain and horror emmitt till.and his family went through and for someone to use that horrible legacy to get more money?  

It is why Emmitt Till mother's made sure that he had an open casket at his funeral so the whole world could see the horror that he went through before he died. It was also to combat the naysayers back then who said it was a hoax by the northern agitators. So for that Jussie could go fuck himself.  

[Dr.OO7]

The merry-go-round keeps spinning: 

https://thegrio.com/2019/02/24/jussie-smollett-new-evidence/