The Flash and Other Superheroes

[phoenics]

Has anyone watched Daredevil on Netflix? I just binge watched the entire season - it was AMAZING. It's far grittier than both Arrow and Flash (obviously) and the characters are so very well fleshed out.

They have fewer characters than The Flash, but they seem very real and very accessible. Unlike with Arrow or other superhero shows with heroes with no powers - the fights are really realistic in a way that Arrow, Gotham and even Batman have never touched.

But the main thing I was really, really impressed by - are the women characters. They are extremely well written and skirt a ton of tropes. Even though the initial romance on the show wasn't the canon couple - the coupling was smoking hot and it worked really well even if you knew they weren't long term (because canon - both for him and her, actually). I think the show couldn't resist because Rosario Dawson's character and Daredevil's character had such amazing chemistry. Anyway - it was just the right way to handle couples without causing crazy shipping war stuff - just so good.

The fight sequences? Epic.

The plot lines? So good.

The villains? You're actually kinda sad when some of them are caught, lol.

Just a darn good comic hero show. Brava netflix and Marvel. Brava.

The Flash writers need to take a lesson - especially in the female characterization. The "love interest" (she's not one yet) actually has - *gasp* her OWN STORY where she drives that story rather than be led around by her nose. She doesn't know of the hero's secret identity yet - but she hasn't been left out of the narrative - she literally drives her own plotline herself and eventually helps to bring down a boss as a result (once she and everyone else teamed up with the info they had). Just EXCELLENT storytelling.

And this is coming from a fan who much preferred the Dawson character - and thought the other actress paled in comparison - but she (Karen) was so well fleshed out and had her OWN story, I didn't care. It's hard to hate on a character with agency who is just doing her thing RIGHT.

The Flash writers should be shot for not writing Iris' story better. And, tbh, Flash's. I still don't get why it's necessary for EVERYONE else to know he's The Flash.

I can't wait for Luke Cage's show.

Agents of Shield has its issues - but DD is one show Marvel got right.

[Sakura12]

I'm also enjoying Daredevil, and like that women have their own things going on. I also like that they managed to get all the good characters to meet without really knowing about each other. 

 

I also like that Daredevil is not running around telling everyone who he is like Barry does. He's actually keeping his identity a secret. Claire found out by accident and having a person with medical knowledge being able to patch you up is a plus for a vigilante. I guess Claire's supposed to be a match up of two characters and connect the other Marvel Netflix shows. They also did some AoS connections as well, Creel the boxer Matt's dad beat was on Shield and Matt and Skye were at the same orphanage. 

[FurryFury]

I'm watching ep 5 right now, and I'd rank Daredevil below Arrow seasons 1-2 in terms of female characters (and obviously much lower than Agent Carter or AoS), but definitely higher than Flash. I'm not a big fan of Rosario Dawson's character (I did like her in her first appearance, not as much after that... She became a damsel and distress and the romance came WAY too soon), but I really like Karen (in fact I like all three main characters and I feel like there is not enough interaction between the 3 of them). But hey, when it comes to women, Flash is probably the bottom of TV barrel right now, so it's not that hard to be better than that.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[phoenics]

I'm watching ep 5 right now, and I'd rank Daredevil below Arrow seasons 1-2 in terms of female characters (and obviously much lower than Agent Carter or AoS), but definitely higher than Flash. I'm not a big fan of Rosario Dawson's character (I did like her in her first appearance, not as much after that... She became a damsel and distress and the romance came WAY too soon), but I really like Karen (in fact I like all three main characters and I feel like there is not enough interaction between the 3 of them). But hey, when it comes to women, Flash is probably the bottom of TV barrel right now, so it's not that hard to be better than that.

Maybe I spoke too soon about the shipping/fandom wars, lol.

Being captured does not make you a damsel in distress. If that's the case, then Karen was that in episode 1 - where she was captured or almost killed. I think for her to be a true DiD, she'd have to be that continuously and I've watched all of the episodes - and she's not that. She's also supposed to become NightNurse - so far from a DiD, imo.

And no - for me, this show is still way above Arrow for its treatment of female characters. Vanessa, Karen and Claire (even Claire) would kick S1 Felicity's ass in terms of how well they were fleshed out - hell even S2. And that's with only 13 episodes compared to Arrow's 20+.

[FurryFury]

If that's the case, then Karen was that in episode 1

 

Yeah, and I specifically called her that in my post in the pilot discussion. I could forgive one use of this trope, but another one that soon? That's annoying.

 

Vanessa, Karen and Claire (even Claire) would kick S1 Felicity's ass in terms of how well they were fleshed out

 

Vanessa so far is just someone whom Fisk can monologue to. Not much of a character. Maybe that'll change, I hope so. (I'm on 6th episode)

 

But I was talking about Moira and Sara, not Felicity. Hell, there were also recurring characters such as Helena and McKenna who kicked ass, at least, and had their own motivations. I don't consider Felicity a very fleshed out character in s1-2 of Arrow, she was fun, but pretty shallow (not sure if it has changed now).

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[phoenics]

Yeah, and I specifically called her that in my post in the pilot discussion. I could forgive one use of this trope, but another one that soon? That's annoying.

 

Vanessa so far is just someone whom Fisk can monologue to. Not much of a character. Maybe that'll change, I hope so. (I'm on 6th episode)

 

But I was talking about Moira and Sara, not Felicity. Hell, there were also recurring characters such as Helena and McKenna who kicked ass, at least, and had their own motivations. I don't consider Felicity a very fleshed out character in s1-2 of Arrow, she was fun, but pretty shallow (not sure if it has changed now).

Sorry - when I meant kick ass - I meant in terms of characterization and being fleshed out. Also - it's unfair to fully compare given DD only has 13 episodes and Arrow has over 20. That's why I'm saying that with that same length of time, given what I'm seeing on DD, I would project that the development of the women there would be even more (not with Claire - as she will probably go to another show soon given canon).

So after S2 of DD, I would expect Karen/Vanessa and Claire to be able to kick any S1 Arrow character in the teeth in terms of characterization.

[FurryFury]

I don't think it's fair to compare shows on amount of episodes, network 20+ episodes shows often have to have a lot of unneeded filler (although I'd argue Daredevil has as well, some of the scenes are just way too long which makes me bored). Also, DD's episodes are longer, time-wise. 

 

One thing that jumps out is that it generally has very few female characters, there are basically none in minor roles - no cops, journalists, etc. I remember only the chief nurse in the hospital and that's it. And all of the females participate in different storylines and don't interact at all, makes me sad. Even early Arrow had them interacting regularly, IIRC, even if it was usually just Moira/Thea.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

I don't consider Claire and Karen's situations to be completely DID. Yeah, they were kidnapped and had to be rescued. But I am also taking that has those situations is what is going/has made them stronger. Sara went through hell to become who she is. Every story needs a beginning, that was theirs. Karen refuses to back down even after a threat of death, she wants the people responsible to pay for what they are doing. Claire didn't think of herself as the victim of Daredevil's antics, those people were taking women and children off the streets for years. She said she knew she was getting into something dangerous by helping him but she too wants to see city safe for everyone. I like that she calls Matt out on his stupid plans of just going in without much of a plan. Heroes need someone like that on their side. 

[FurryFury]

Yeah, they were kidnapped and had to be rescued. But I am also taking that has those situations is what is going/has made them stronger.

 

I don't think it means they weren't DID'd. I was just specifically waiting if they'll avoid diving into the pretty cliched and predictable storyline with Claire - she helps him, she's kidnapped, he saves her, she falls for him - and they couldn't. I was hoping  she'll save herself at least partially, but no such luck. The fact that this was justified by the story doesn't make it any less annoying, for me.

 

I don't dislike Claire or anything (I feel like I need to clarify it), I just think that slotting her into the temporary love interest role too soon hurt her character. I liked her attitude and I still do, but can't help but feel the romance was unneeded. Especially her words about falling in love, etc - I totally cringed.

 

Frankly, I almost want Karen to hook up with Foggy for good, simply because I'm tired for the male lead in a superhero show to get all the girls around him to fall for him. So over this trope.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

I don't think that's going away anytime soon. The lead always gets the love interests. 

[phoenics]

I don't think it means they weren't DID'd. I was just specifically waiting if they'll avoid diving into the pretty cliched and predictable storyline with Claire - she helps him, she's kidnapped, he saves her, she falls for him - and they couldn't. I was hoping  she'll save herself at least partially, but no such luck. The fact that this was justified by the story doesn't make it any less annoying, for me.

I think/hope you'll like the direction it's going - I don't know if you're a comic fan or not - but if you look at the background of Claire - it's pretty clear she's not meant to be on this show forever... I actually think she could end up in one of the Avengers movies actually.

I don't dislike Claire or anything (I feel like I need to clarify it), I just think that slotting her into the temporary love interest role too soon hurt her character. I liked her attitude and I still do, but can't help but feel the romance was unneeded. Especially her words about falling in love, etc - I totally cringed.

I guess I have seen so many shows growing up where the hero would hook up with a girl in one episode that this didn't seem rushed for me... they just kissed.

Frankly, I almost want Karen to hook up with Foggy for good, simply because I'm tired for the male lead in a superhero show to get all the girls around him to fall for him. So over this trope.

Ugh I don't wanna spoil you! LOL.

*sits on hands*

[FurryFury]

I don't think that's going away anytime soon. The lead always gets the love interests.

 

Yeah, but just compare the amount to what female superheroes/superhero-esque character get. Barry has had FOUR potential LIs in one season (Iris, Caitlyn, Felicity, Linda). Buffy had, like, 3 in the entire run. Sydney Bristow on Alias had one plus a one-episode character, IIRC. And this is despite Barry being supposedly a nerdy guy hung up on his BFF. I wonder if it's the current trend though, let's see what happens with Supergirl. Peggy didn't get any romance on Agent Carter, but it made sense, considering how short the show was and how traumatized she had been by Steve's death.

[bettername2come]

Sydney Bristow on Alias had one plus a one-episode character, IIRC.

 

She also had Will! 

[FurryFury]

Oh yeah, haha. Totally forgot him. Never really considered him a legit LI, but he did get some eventually, so he probably should count.

[bettername2come]

They kissed, they had sex and she hid a secret identity from him. If Caitlin counts as Barry's love interest, Will should count for Sydney.

[FurryFury]

I did say he should count, I just forgot about him. As for Caitlyn, I don't really think she's a confirmed LI, but I'm like 90% sure they'll go there in s2 or 3.

[bettername2come]

I would hate for Caitlin and Barry to really be a couple. I feel like it would have worked better if they'd done it this season than if they went there later. Especially with Ronnie back and Iris returning Barry's feelings (at least in one timeline).

 

Daredevil is certainly reminding me of Arrow first season, with the darker, grittier vibe, although I thought it was interesting that even with the darker tone, they decided not to have Daredevil kill when early Oliver was totally different. I think it's kind of funny that this show has also done the two male, one female trio that Arrow and Flash have. I feel like that started with Arrow, at least in terms of superhero shows. 

[FurryFury]

I don't think so. The pilot of Daredevil gave me more of an Angel vibe, which also started with 2 guys and a girl - a broody hero, a funny sidekick and a female secretary, even.

[phoenics]

I would hate for Caitlin and Barry to really be a couple. I feel like it would have worked better if they'd done it this season than if they went there later. Especially with Ronnie back and Iris returning Barry's feelings (at least in one timeline).

 

Daredevil is certainly reminding me of Arrow first season, with the darker, grittier vibe, although I thought it was interesting that even with the darker tone, they decided not to have Daredevil kill when early Oliver was totally different. I think it's kind of funny that this show has also done the two male, one female trio that Arrow and Flash have. I feel like that started with Arrow, at least in terms of superhero shows.

Actually that's part of DD canon - the 3 team of Matt, Foggy and Karen. Or at least Foggy and Matt. In some versions, Karen is on the team there too - though she doesn't always know the secret until much later.

As for DD not killing - that's because his Catholic faith is a HUGE part of the character - I'm so glad they are sticking to that part of the story - it's part of what makes him such a compelling character.

Edited April 13, 2015 by phoenics

[FurryFury]

So, continuing with the comparisons - why, exactly, couldn't The Flash give Iris & Mason the storyline that Karen and the reporter have on DD? I mean, I actually like their investigation and their dynamic is OK. And Karen isn't even a reporter! This is what Iris should be doing if she's not allowed to learn Barry's The Flash.

Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[phoenics]

So, continuing with the comparisons - why, exactly, couldn't The Flash give Iris & Mason the storyline that Karen and the reporter have on DD? I mean, I actually like their investigation and their dynamic is OK. And Karen isn't even a reporter! This is what Iris should be doing if she's not allowed to learn Barry's The Flash.

That's exactly what I thought - and what I meant when I lauded Daredevil for giving it's top-billed/leading actress a real storyline to drive apart from the hero. It's just a grown up way to write for adult super heroes. That the Flash writers didn't do this is just so glaring.

[Actionmage]

Anyone besides me watch the Super-hero Fight Club during iZombie? I watched it again on the CW site.

 

It's about three minutes worth of silly fun; I hope everyone involved in front of the cameras got some money for it because it added nothing to either show. Still? Goofy fun.

 

I am starting to wonder about how much it costs to have Ray do stuff in his regular-sized suit. 

[Trini]

Dude -- there was a Cisco/Ray scene in tonight's Arrow! I hadn't heard anything about any Flash characters appearing. And Ray brought up the issue of how they feed the pipeline prisoners. It wasn't answered though.

[bettername2come]

That's how they should do crossovers! I was pleasantly surprised to see Cisco. Weird that the metahuman on Arrow wasn't in Central City the day of the explosion. I'm guessing that will be relevant to The Flash in the future.

[ParadoxLost]

Anyone besides me watch the Super-hero Fight Club during iZombie? I watched it again on the CW site.

 

It's about three minutes worth of silly fun; I hope everyone involved in front of the cameras got some money for it because it added nothing to either show. Still? Goofy fun.

 

I did and thought it was fun.  It worked well enough that I think the CW should think about doing spinoffs of it for the network promos.  Almost all of their shows have, if not super heroes, then supernatural elements that could lend themselves to fight club.  The narrator from Jane the Virgin can narrate in comic book font to make it inclusive.

[Trini]

Is the Iron Heights Prison on Arrow the same Iron Heights Prison on the Flash? So Barry's dad has been there the whole time when all the various prison shenanigans happened on Arrow? I would have to double check, but I think the two shows use dissimilar sets, for the supposed same location.

[Velocity23]

Didnt the Count escape out of Iron Heights on Arrow during the Undertaking? And the Dollmaker escaped because Count Vertigo gave him the keys to his cell during the earthquake, and the ensuing chaos.

[quarks]

Roy's prison cell was from Arrow (in a nice touch, it was the one used in the episode where Roy joined Team Arrow) and so far I don't think that one has been used on Flash, but the Roy/Thea conversation happened on a Flash set, with different lighting, and a couple of the Flash prison scenes have been on Arrow sets.  Anyway, I am fanwanking this as Central City wanting to stay bright and pretty so it ships all of its grimy dark convicts off to Starling. It's not a really good fanwank, but it's all I have.

[bettername2come]

I thought the shows had a nice symmetry this week, Barry fighting a crazy non-powered scientist while Oliver and Ray fought a metahuman.

[Trini]

Someone brought up Lois and Clark in another thread, and it reminded me of how Lois & Clark handled Superman's secret identity. On that show, outside of a very small group of people, anyone who found out either died, got amnesia/mind-wiped, or the evidence got destroyed and the person discredited. I think Smallville took a similar approach. I don't remember how the first Flash series handled it.

[Cirien]

Someone brought up Lois and Clark in another thread, and it reminded me of how Lois & Clark handled Superman's secret identity. On that show, outside of a very small group of people, anyone who found out either died, got amnesia/mind-wiped, or the evidence got destroyed and the person discredited. I think Smallville took a similar approach. I don't remember how the first Flash series handled it.

Well the only one to find out and then get his mind wiped was Lex. Though there was a large amount of danger people were put in (especially with Pete Ross), I can't remember anyone else dying (Well maybe Tess, and Lionel)

[cambridgeguy]

 

Is the Iron Heights Prison on Arrow the same Iron Heights Prison on the Flash? So Barry's dad has been there the whole time when all the various prison shenanigans happened on Arrow? I would have to double check, but I think the two shows use dissimilar sets, for the supposed same location.

In the comics Iron Heights Prison is supposed to be in Keystone City, which is close to Central City - Barry and Eddie visited it in the Girder episode.  Since Starling and Central are 600 miles apart that's one heck of a trip if anyone from the Arrow crew wants to visit.

[Trini]

About Felicity and her nemesis; both she and Brie have the same chair, but Brie's is white instead of black.

[CabotCove]

Using the names, Ray Palmer and The Atom, imply certain parameters, for some of the audience. It would be like Arrow  being Carter Hall and he uses Ping-Pong paddles to fight crime.  The Flash with Eel O'Brien and he fights crime with a Kodak Instamatic camera.  Just because it was written that way in the show, doesn't keep us who know what comic book Ray Palmer/The Atom do from being disappointed, especially as there are two other shows  on this network that get a lot of the stuff right about the named heroes of the series.

 

Yeah I get it, as noted the problem was that they wanted to use Ted Kord and then they were denied by DC and given Ray Palmer instead. Since he was just being used as a supporting character on Arrow, he could be a bit different. Maybe this "Iron man" like alter ego will be like a proto-type, and then when he goes to his own spin off he can shrink over there and become a different kind of Atom?. There he will become the hero of the series (one of)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Conell

[marketdoctor]

 

Yeah I get it, as noted the problem was that they wanted to use Ted Kord and then they were denied by DC and given Ray Palmer instead.

 

What I don't understand is why the writers thought those were the only two choices.  There's a rich tradition of new characters being added to the canon; you could have done someone entirely new.  The legal hurdles are higher, considering how many comics are out there, but it's not impossible to have a new person.  (Or cross over another way, and pick someone from Starship Troopers, which also had powered battle armor and has already been adapted away from book canon.)  

 

I wonder what the rights would have been for Dan Drieberg, but I can see Alan Moore being less than interested--and Nite Owl only tried powered armor once.  The odd thing is, if I didn't know who Ray Palmer was supposed to be, I'd have liked this interpretation a lot better; it's a credit to Brandon Routh that he shows he's having fun with it, so he's inviting the audience to come along.

[Trini]

Merlyn mentioned STAR Labs and Central City in last week's Arrow episode.

 

And it looks like in this week's Arrow,

Laurel uses her new Canary Cry made by Cisco

.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Trini

[Trini]

So they mentioned Coast City and Ferris Air; I wonder if they'd actually introduce Green Lantern on this show? I don't think DC/WB has any immediate plans for that character.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Well the only one to find out and then get his mind wiped was Lex. Though there was a large amount of danger people were put in (especially with Pete Ross), I can't remember anyone else dying (Well maybe Tess, and Lionel)

A lot of people found out Clark's secret and then conveniently died. Just in the first season or two off the top of my head:

 

Ryan (the mind reader kid)

Cassandra (the blind prophet lady)

I think the rogue cop from Metropolis

Roger Nixon (the skeezy reporter from the Inquisitor)

Kyla (the wolfgirl shifter)

Tina Greer (the anything shapeshifter)

 

And although actual mind wipes weren't shown, that is the only explanation for how on pretty much a weekly basis, Clark would throw someone 30 feet and the person would not apparently remember that there was something strange about this.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[kikaha]

Has anyone watched Daredevil on Netflix? I just binge watched the entire season - it was AMAZING. It's far grittier than both Arrow and Flash (obviously) and the characters are so very well fleshed out.

They have fewer characters than The Flash, but they seem very real and very accessible. Unlike with Arrow or other superhero shows with heroes with no powers - the fights are really realistic in a way that Arrow, Gotham and even Batman have never touched.

But the main thing I was really, really impressed by - are the women characters. They are extremely well written and skirt a ton of tropes. Even though the initial romance on the show wasn't the canon couple - the coupling was smoking hot and it worked really well even if you knew they weren't long term (because canon - both for him and her, actually). I think the show couldn't resist because Rosario Dawson's character and Daredevil's character had such amazing chemistry. Anyway - it was just the right way to handle couples without causing crazy shipping war stuff - just so good.

The fight sequences? Epic.

The plot lines? So good.

The villains? You're actually kinda sad when some of them are caught, lol.

Just a darn good comic hero show. Brava netflix and Marvel. Brava.

The Flash writers need to take a lesson - especially in the female characterization. The "love interest" (she's not one yet) actually has - *gasp* her OWN STORY where she drives that story rather than be led around by her nose. She doesn't know of the hero's secret identity yet - but she hasn't been left out of the narrative - she literally drives her own plotline herself and eventually helps to bring down a boss as a result (once she and everyone else teamed up with the info they had). Just EXCELLENT storytelling.

And this is coming from a fan who much preferred the Dawson character - and thought the other actress paled in comparison - but she (Karen) was so well fleshed out and had her OWN story, I didn't care. It's hard to hate on a character with agency who is just doing her thing RIGHT.

The Flash writers should be shot for not writing Iris' story better. And, tbh, Flash's. I still don't get why it's necessary for EVERYONE else to know he's The Flash.

I can't wait for Luke Cage's show.

Agents of Shield has its issues - but DD is one show Marvel got right.

 

Actually, the fight scenes are one thing that turned me off DD.  Just one or two of those blows would take out a trained fighter.  But DD (and several of his opponents) take scores of them... hundreds of them.  Makes the fights so fake, I can barely stand them.  Same with when he fights more than one opponent. 

 

Then there's DD's miraculous recovery time.  He's not invulnerable, like Superman.  He doesn't heal at super-fast speed, like the Flash.  He's just a person.  Those injuries he sustains in just about every episode should have sidelined him for months.  Instead he's back on his feet the next morning, often in full fighting form by evening.  More absurdity for me. 

[Trini]

Wasn't sure where to put this... from to Arrow promos

the Flash shows up in Nanda Parbat next week on Arrow.

Tagged just in case.

 

Wow, we'll have had quite a few crossovers by the time this season is over. If this spin-off happens, it's going to be bananas.

 

Edited for clarity

Edited May 7, 2015 by Trini

[bettername2come]

Wasn't sure where to put this... from to Arrow promos

the Flash shows up in Nanda Parbat next week on Arrow.

Tagged just in case.

Wow, we'll have had quite a few crossovers by the time this season is over. If this crossover happens, it's going to be bananas.

I'm really curious what order these promo events are happening in. It seems like the Arrow episode would have to take place first.

[MarkHB]

Marc Guggenheim said on his Tumblr that Flash and Arrow are going to be back in sync next season.  It seems like Berlanti is accumulating a fair amount of clout in Hollywood these days.  I would think that LoT might be as well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I won't lie. As I watch this show, in the back of my head, I wonder sometimes, if the show runners might bring in Tom Welling's Superman for an episode. WAIT! why not? I mean, he should be Supes by now, I think. Right? They could have the whole who is the fastest? Like they did in Superman: The Animated Series' "Speed Demons", even though it was that annoying Charles Schlatter who voiced Flash and it was Wally and not Barry.

 

What? Can I help it if I miss Tom's prettiness on my screen?

[Trini]

Quote from the THR interview with Guggenheim: (Tagged for Arrow spoilers just in case.)

How do you work Barry Allen into the episode without having him solve all of Oliver's problems?

 

That's one of the things we talk about a lot, having a shared superhero universe. On the one hand, why doesn't Team Arrow just call Barry all the time? And if he does, why doesn't Barry make the episode five minutes long? That question gets answered pretty specifically in the season finale. We wrote it in close consultation with The Flash writers, knowing where Barry was in his story and if you watch episode 23 of Arrow with 23 of Flash back to back, Barry goes straight from Arrow into the season finale of Flash. There's a pretty good explanation in The Flash story as why he can't just solve all of Oliver's problems in five minutes.

 

So... Flash #22 --> Arrow #23 --> Flash #23. I hope that's right.

 

But it still might be confusing anyway, since Arrow #23 probably picks up right where Arrow #22 ended -- meaning

the scene with Barry/Flash in Arrow #23 might more closely align with the events of Arrow #22.

Now we need to figure out where Oliver's scenes in The Flash fit in the timeline of Arrow.

 

 

[Sakura12]

From seeing the Supergirl trailer it looks like both her probable love interests know her secret  Yay for no secrets!

 

Edited May 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[phoenics]

Eh - I'm not feeling that at all... Maybe I'll feel differently after it airs. I don't like the "normal life" they have for Kara - getting coffee? Really? It's like they made a "Clarkina" character, but worse.

[Trini]

From the Arrow finale: Now we can add Malcom Merlyn to the list of people who know the Flash's identity.

[opus]

From the Arrow finale: Now we can add Malcom Merlyn to the list of people who know the Flash's identity.

I wrote this in the ARROW forum . Felicity just said Barry. Unless Malcolm knows Barry Allen exists.......

Edited May 14, 2015 by GaryE

[bettername2come]

It can't be that hard to figure out who Felicity knows that's named Barry.

[Trini]

Plus Malcolm already knows about STAR Labs from a previous Arrow episode. I think he'd be able to figure it out.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Trini