S08.E03: First Week of School

[watcherwoman]

This was a cute episode.  Will taking the Goldfish crackers was entirely normal to me.   I can't count the number of times one of my own kids, or one of the children I cared for, grabbed a toy, food, pet, shoe or whatever, after I told them to drop it.  That's what little kids do sometimes.  No big deal, they are becoming more independent at that stage and will challenge authority.  They all grew up to be normal people without doing time in prison.

 

Will telling his dad to sit down at the pool just seemed like one of those moments where Will wanted to say "let me do this myself, dad.  I got this!"  How many times have we as parents heard that?  Again, just seemed like a little boy wanting to be independent.  Missing his parents at school?  He's still a child, and he's dealing with wanting to grow up and be independent, and still being a little guy.

 

I thought Judy looked like she lost weight.  I don't see any lack of wrinkles on her face.  I think she looks great for her age.  The high chairs don't bother me at all.  I prefer to sit at counter height, or bar stools, so I guess I like a higher chair too.

[joanne3482]

Just like seeing Jen and Bill being able to enjoy riding around with the kids in their special cars solely because of their sizes.

 

I just realized that Will and Zoey will be able to get so much more use out of those cars than the average kid. Most kids grow out of them, but they will be able to play with them and drive around in them for quite some time. 

[CPP83]

Bill said that he expected Will to "take the world by storm" at school. Do Bill and Jen not realize that Will is not as mature as other children his age? I would have thought they would be very concerned for him, considering his maturity level. I thought Bill had a nephew about Will's age. Can't they see that Will is not as advanced as their nephew?

 

 

I took that to mean that Bill was thinking about Will's social prowess that he's often displayed. Will has shown that he can charm the pants off of people, his laugh, his smile, his general attitude and demeanor. 

 

I think they thought Will was going to have a positive reaction as a social butterfly in a school setting, and instead they got the opposite. He seemed to pull away from everyone, not just run up to all the other kids determined to make friends and play around.

 

I don't believe that his maturity is even a factor in any of that, Bill certainly didn't mention that he thought Will would be outperforming the other kids.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I just realized that Will and Zoey will be able to get so much more use out of those cars than the average kid. Most kids grow out of them, but they will be able to play with them and drive around in them for quite some time. 

 

And I think Jen and Bill have discovered a whole new world of toys for themselves too!  Trix are not just for kids!  LOL

[QuinnM]

I think their size will dictate what chair they can use.  Will might be big enough for a pull up high chair to the table but no way is Zoey big enough for that.  She will slide right out.  

 

Not sure what experience folks have with foreign adoptions but children never forget the feeling that they were not always the center of their universe.  Foreign adopted kids have support groups even as adults.  Different children have different struggles with it but they do remember forever.

[CPP83]

Kids who are immature, have problems socially, with their peers. Shouldn't Bill and Jen have thought of this?

 

 

 

They've seen their children have varying reactions to situations, some good and some bad. Especially because they are little kids they're incredibly unpredictable in how they may behave or react to things, imho.

 

Bill and Jen I am sure weigh the pros and cons often but at the end of the day I can see them leaning towards the positives whenever possible, as I've so often heard Bill and Jen themselves say about their approach to life and its' challenges.

 

It may not end up that way but they couldn't keep him away from school so they wanted to focus on things working out, on things going well. And they did have past evidence that Will has interacted well with other kids his age.

 

 

I just realized that Will and Zoey will be able to get so much more use out of those cars than the average kid. Most kids grow out of them, but they will be able to play with them and drive around in them for quite some time.

 

 

And they are the deluxe models, heh, or so it seems. How helpful would they be when they go to the beach or roam around the park? And they'd also be good with helping them learn how to drive when they get old enough I'd think. As long as they learn that the cones are meant to be missed and not run over, heh.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

 

He seemed to pull away from everyone, not just run up to all the other kids determined to make friends and play around.

 

Ok I missed seeing this?  Was there a school scene?  

[CPP83]

Ok I missed seeing this?  Was there a school scene?  

 

 

There were no scenes, I was speaking hypothetically about what might have happened based on their comments about Will having a difficult time. From the comments about how upset he was, crying for his parents, how he said he wasn't making friends, etc.

[mbutterfly]

I hate to revisit diapergate, but is there some way we know Will still wears diapers? 

[gunderda]

Here we go again on certain topics--at the risk of opening up THAT can of worms again, I must ask why people think Will is not yet potty trained?  Did they see a glimpse of pull-ups again to put everyone in a tizzy?  And how do we know that Will is in a class of children his age or in a class of children a bit younger?  I haven't heard either Bill or Jen make a comment on that (however, I'm not saying they didn't, just that I didn't hear it). 

I was going to question this as well - we were never told what age group Will was put into.  Just because they are in different rooms does not mean they are in different "ages".  My cousin has a set of twins who started preschool this year.  They both have different teachers.  My cousin was worried that they would freak out not being together all the time.  Preschool's aren't like they used to be - when I went it was at a church and there was one class and one (maybe 2) teacher.  Now they're like mini-schools.

 

Someone asked if Jen was already in the pantry when Will scored the goldfish bags but she wasn't.  She was packing things up and heard Will in the pantry and went in to find him helping himself.  He made it clear to her when she tried to take them from him they were MINE.  Even for the school pic sitting on the desks she tried to hold them NO MINE.  

Thank you for clearing that up - I was the one who asked.  I must not have been paying attention much.

 

I'd like to know where Will learned the "don't touch!" "mine!" vocab.  is that normal?  I'm used to seeing kids be very territorial about stuff they think is there's but not sure I've experience one be that aggressive about it. 

[camom]

There were no school scenes that I saw.  And I was pleased about that.  Let them (and everyone else) have some privacy.  I assume the school said NO.

[gunderda]

There were no scenes, I was speaking hypothetically about what might have happened based on their comments about Will having a difficult time. From the comments about how upset he was, crying for his parents, how he said he wasn't making friends, etc.

 

We don't know if he really didn't make any friends.  If Will is truly worried that it's an orphanage situation and he doesn't think at some point he will come home, he may just be saying he hasn't made friends in hopes that he won't have to go back. 

[CPP83]

We don't know if he really didn't make any friends.  If Will is truly worried that it's an orphanage situation and he doesn't think at some point he will come home, he may just be saying he hasn't made friends in hopes that he won't have to go back.

 

 

 

Personally I don't see a child Will's age thinking so methodically or having a prepared answer if he might be asked a certain question.

 

Considering he is just starting school I could see it taking time for Will to make any real friends yet or feeling very comfortable around a bunch of strangers. In time I think he'll more than warm up to the new atmosphere and situation but for now I got the impression he just isn't yet sold on this school idea, heh.

 

Now if they had swimming classes at his school he might come home a far happy camper. I still can't get over how he was tossed straight up in the air while holding onto his feet and he didn't flinch for a second, it's as if he's part fish.

Edited December 18, 2014 by CPP83

[aunt jen]

I feel strongly enough about some recent discussion that I feel the need to speak up. I have a special needs child. Intellectually he is intact but physically and developmentally he is way behind. He is three. He is in a school district run classroom for children with all kinds of disabilities or delays. There are several classrooms in the district divided by age.

Due to their stature and delays both Zoey and Will probably qualify for a similar program. Classrooms like my sons' have therapy incorporated into the school day. One of the teachers is a speech therapist. Physical therapy and occupational therapy take kids out for one on one time. The main teacher is certified in early childhood special education. The goal of the program is to prepare the children for mainstream kindergarten when they turn five or six.

I can certainly see the Kleins simply calling their kids' program "school". I seriously doubt the children are going to a commercial preschool, partially because their children would need special services. Both of them!

 

Thank you - I was about to say exactly this when I saw your post.  My son is 4 and is in a similar program; it is a 3 hour session.  He's very speech delayed (Will is a little ahead of where my son is) and overall, on average, about a year behind where he should be in all the social/occupational/behavioral areas.  I did put him in the program with mostly 3 year olds, because 1) the kid still takes a 3 hour nap every day and we tried the other session, during which he lost his nap AND his damn mind, and 2) his birthday is less than a week before school starts in my county, so he'd already be the youngest in his class, and a year behind to boot, so I am holding him back a year from the start.  He's in class with the kids who will start kindergarten with him.

Children with invisible disabilities can "pass" (for lack of a better word) so you don't get all the stares in public.  But there's a special kind of worry with kids whose issues are not apparent; we've all seen the kid having a tantrum or meltdown and thought the parents were just ineffective, but the reality is that many kids, more than one might think, have sensory problems and get easily overwhelmed, may be autistic, or may be mentally ill.  I am grateful my teeny preemie is still short because the communication delays have made potty-training difficult, and he's still small enough that people don't think I'm a lazy mom that won't potty-train her kid.  They can also be more vulnerable to predators - ambulatory, independent, but unable to communicate anything that parents might see as a red flag.  

IF Will is developmentally delayed, that may be something the Arnold/Kleins are aware of (super-likely for Jen as a ped/neonatologist) but are glossing over.  They are walking a fine line between using their family to educate, and making sure they don't hurt their kids.  All of us can (and do) have opinions on their degree of success, but if they publicly labeled Will as delayed that could hurt him long after he "catches up." Not pride or denial, but protection would be the first instinct.  I am very cautious about allowing my son to be labeled with anything that may hold him back from what I know he can do, while weighing the benefits of those labels (diagnoses get services).  I can't imagine that on a national TV scale.

On another note, I loved getting to see the simulation center in action.  My NICU was amazing but if they had a center like that I was not aware of it.  We did "room in" the night before we went home, and were required to take an infant CPR class, and that was it.  We were very fortunate in that we didn't come home on a trach, but I completely understood the gratitude and pride in herself that mom showed.  

[ZoloftBlob]

Bill said that he expected Will to "take the world by storm" at school. Do Bill and Jen not realize that Will is not as mature as other children his age?

 

Does Bill have to publically acknowledge Will's delays in every statement about Will in order to be considered honest and up front? I know parents with children with obvious, no questioning it, intellectual delays and they say things like "Lil Johnny is taking his class by storm" and "Lil Jessica did so well in math today!" and I don't take that to mean they're deluding themselves and actually think nothing is wrong with their child. Does Bill have to hang a sign on himself with "Our son has delays" in order to prove he intimately understands and openly acknowledges his child is not mature like other children?

 

What does Bill have to do on screen to prove he understands Will has problems? Other than follow up every compliment he gives will with "But Will is a delayed child and I know it"?

[Bellalisa]

It was also interesting that Jen didn't want Will driving that car by himself. Isn't that what they are for? Most kids don't have a parent in the car with them. If you don't want them driving it themselves, or you think solo driving is dangerous- don't buy it for them! 

[gunderda]

Will also could have been in a bad mood at the time they asked him that question.  I have very frequently witness little kids answer in a negative response to anything they are asked if they are being moody about something else or are pouting.  

It was also interesting that Jen didn't want Will driving that car by himself. Isn't that what they are for? Most kids don't have a parent in the car with them. If you don't want them driving it themselves, or you think solo driving is dangerous- don't buy it for them! 

 

Most adults can run after the kid and stop the car.  It's a little bit harder for Jen and Bill to do that. A regular sized adult can probably stand in front and stop it from moving.  Jen would probably get run over.

[NausetGirl]

I told Bill to just take the picture of Zoey's back, but he didn't listen  :)

 

My favorite picture of my sons is on my computer desktop - we're high up in the Rockies and they're sitting in Adirondack chairs looking out over the view.  Both of them were in teenage snits and refused to turn around for the camera, so I took it of their backs and the beautiful view.

 

I have to say I think the "first day of school" shot with Zoey's back to the camera - because she's situated herself at her little "desk" - is just adorable. And much more real than if they'd turned her around to get a traditional posed photo. Because it is SO Zoey - just three years old but still doing it her way!  I hope she retains that aspect of her personality forever. In the future, Bill & Jen are always going to smile a little bit wider when they look at that picture.

Edited December 18, 2014 by NausetGirl

[Bellalisa]

 

Most adults can run after the kid and stop the car.  It's a little bit harder for Jen and Bill to do that. A regular sized adult can probably stand in front and stop it from moving.  Jen would probably get run over.

I disagree as these cars are made for that age group. For kids 3 and up (It costs $439 for the one Will had!)  Jen is a nervous nelly. It had nothing to do with their size. Plus they were surrounded by camera and crew - I imagine if he was in real "danger" one of them could have stopped the car. We forget they are trailed by 5 people.

[CPP83]

Most adults can run after the kid and stop the car.  It's a little bit harder for Jen and Bill to do that. A regular sized adult can probably stand in front and stop it from moving.  Jen would probably get run over.

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. Jen expressed the most concern and rightfully so, imo, when Bill thought it was a good idea to let Will drive around with Zoey. I think she might not have been so nervous if it hadn't been the first test run with the kids. Or seeing Will target those cones while laughing like a manic hyena.

 

And like you said both she and Bill can't just reach down and grip the back of one of those things and bring it to a halt straight away or just stand guard in front, easily able to keep up with their child or divert any danger.

 

I thought it worked best with Bill and Jen riding with the kids, at least the first few times, especially with Will who was obviously excited about having his own car to drive.

 

I think they need to make sure that he understands how to properly operate the toy, and also that if they say "Stop Will" he obeys and doesn't just ignore them, as he's been shown that he can, and gun it in the opposite direction for his own safety and others.

[mtnrunner]

I think falling back on the orphanage all the time for issues that may or may not be normal is getting old.  We know Will had a great time at the orphanage and loved playing with the other kids.  The kids have primarily been with adults jet setting the world and have had little time to be kids.  Hell they likely think of their parents as playmates and friends so why do they have to go somewhere else.  They kept saying Zoey did well, still surprises me, she is the shy one and Will goes happily off with his speech therapist and I think he even told them GO.  LOL  I think they were creating some drama where there really was nothing out of the ordinary going on.  

 

Will could very well struggle the rest of his life because of his beginning and his time in the foster home, plenty of other adopted children have.  Regardless of how good a orphanage or foster home is it is never a substitute for a real home.  Will has now experienced a real home and he might have frecked out being in a similar setting to a group home.  I was surprised that he had such a reaction given he seems to embrace any new situation.  Bill's musings could very well have been correct.  Every child wants a true home of their own and are affected in many different ways that will show up throughout their lives when they weren't born into one.

[Honey]

Will also could have been in a bad mood at the time they asked him that question.  I have very frequently witness little kids answer in a negative response to anything they are asked if they are being moody about something else or are pouting.  

 

Most adults can run after the kid and stop the car.  It's a little bit harder for Jen and Bill to do that. A regular sized adult can probably stand in front and stop it from moving.  Jen would probably get run over.

Exactly.  A normal height adult can catch up to those cars in just a couple of strides.  For Jen and Bill, they would be full out running, and maybe still not catch up until the kids ran into something.

[gunderda]

I disagree as these cars are made for that age group. For kids 3 and up (It costs $439 for the one Will had!)  Jen is a nervous nelly. It had nothing to do with their size. Plus they were surrounded by camera and crew - I imagine if he was in real "danger" one of them could have stopped the car. We forget they are trailed by 5 people.

 

But for tv show purposes they are suppose to pretend those people don't exist.  Yes we know they are there... but in normal circumstances they are not. And likely the crew is probably told "don't intervene" 

[BitterApple]

The car scene seemed like a product placement set-up for the show anyways, so any concerns might be moot. We'll probably never see the cars again. I don't think Bill and Jen are in denial or delusional about their physical limitations. I think that they would either a) avoid situations where safety might be an issue, or b) ensure they had Kate or a family member along as a back-up.

[Absolom]

There are so many reasons a child like Will may not have taken to school immediately.  It could be from being in an orphanage, it could having scheduled activities, it could be having rules, he might not like the teacher, he could have been having a bad couple of days, or he could have just been being ornery and saying no because he can.  There could be any number of other reasons. 

 

I think Will is catching up.  He's now acting more like my two year old grandson than he was earlier.  Grandson still has more vocabulary and better sentence structure, but Will is much closer to it.  The behavior is also similar and oddly I have bought grandson an electric car for Christmas.  We will not be turning him loose in a church parking lot from the get go.  We have plans to go to an enclosed tennis court for his first try.  I can easily understand Jen's concern about letting him go immediately.  The commands to the adults are similar along with the No, mine, etc.  I do see a difference in parenting styles as my daughter automatically takes anything out of grandson's hand that he filches from the pantry or the fridge.  She may then let him have it if he asks properly and it's OK.  They also react differently to the demands to sit, etc.  They tell him he needs to express that nicely and being bossy is not nice.  I hope Jen and Bill begin doing that or something similar at least when the cameras are not there.

[NausetGirl]

I think falling back on the orphanage all the time for issues that may or may not be normal is getting old.  We know Will had a great time at the orphanage and loved playing with the other kids.  The kids have primarily been with adults jet setting the world and have had little time to be kids.  Hell they likely think of their parents as playmates and friends so why do they have to go somewhere else.  They kept saying Zoey did well, still surprises me, she is the shy one and Will goes happily off with his speech therapist and I think he even told them GO.  LOL  I think they were creating some drama where there really was nothing out of the ordinary going on.  

 

I'm hoping the continual references to the orphanage, at least in Will's case, begin to transition to the real reason for his difficulties, which IMO is the extremely rough start this poor kid had in life.  IIRC, he arrived at New Day as a 6-pound 3-month old baby!!  Severe malnourishment, especially at such a young age, must have some effect on brain development.  It just makes sense.  In some cases it might be reversible, but in some, it might not.  The fact that his hearing issue has been addressed will definitely help in the language area, but I also believe there is real credibility to the sleep apnea/brain damage theory.  Will could have been permanently-affected by that.  After knowing just some of the troubles Will has faced [and there very well could be others], I'd be amazed if he's able to completely overcome all of these issues.  But I'm sure Bill & Jen are absolutely working toward that goal.

[NausetGirl]

There are so many reasons a child like Will may not have taken to school immediately.  It could be from being in an orphanage, it could having scheduled activities, it could be having rules, he might not like the teacher, he could have been having a bad couple of days, or he could have just been being ornery and saying no because he can.  There could be any number of other reasons. 

 

I think Will is catching up.  He's now acting more like my two year old grandson than he was earlier.  Grandson still has more vocabulary and better sentence structure, but Will is much closer to it.  The behavior is also similar and oddly I have bought grandson an electric car for Christmas.  We will not be turning him loose in a church parking lot from the get go.  We have plans to go to an enclosed tennis court for his first try.  I can easily understand Jen's concern about letting him go immediately.  The commands to the adults are similar along with the No, mine, etc.  I do see a difference in parenting styles as my daughter automatically takes anything out of grandson's hand that he filches from the pantry or the fridge.  She may then let him have it if he asks properly and it's OK.  They also react differently to the demands to sit, etc.  They tell him he needs to express that nicely and being bossy is not nice.  I hope Jen and Bill begin doing that or something similar at least when the cameras are not there.

 

Agree to all this. And BTW, your daughter sounds like a great mom!  Her "you can have this - or do this - if you ask nicely, but being bossy is not nice..." approach is an excellent one, IMO. It would be the perfect tactic for Bill & Jen to use - especially on camera since it would be firm, fair discipline without appearing severe. I bet your grandson knows who the boss is in his house too - LOL.

[Jellybeans]

Maybe Will is just one of those kids, like many, many kids who prefers to socialize on his own or with 1-2 kids. My son was not and still is not, a social butterfly. And should it really bother anyone?

We can't give this family a break over goldfish and M&M's. I am guilty of giving in to both of my kids as well. I am such a bad parent. Once, my kids had chocolate ice cream for breakfast because well, it's fun to be a parent.

[mbutterfly]

Does Bill have to publically acknowledge Will's delays in every statement about Will in order to be considered honest and up front? I know parents with children with obvious, no questioning it, intellectual delays and they say things like "Lil Johnny is taking his class by storm" and "Lil Jessica did so well in math today!" and I don't take that to mean they're deluding themselves and actually think nothing is wrong with their child. Does Bill have to hang a sign on himself with "Our son has delays" in order to prove he intimately understands and openly acknowledges his child is not mature like other children?

 

What does Bill have to do on screen to prove he understands Will has problems? Other than follow up every compliment he gives will with "But Will is a delayed child and I know it"?

I taught children with special needs and this was almost universally true of parents. We all understood we meant within the individual context of that child's achievements at that moment. My students all had physical disabilities and some had additional developmental delays. This was pretty true across the board. 

[watcherwoman]

Maybe Will is just one of those kids, like many, many kids who prefers to socialize on his own or with 1-2 kids. My son was not and still is not, a social butterfly. And should it really bother anyone?

We can't give this family a break over goldfish and M&M's. I am guilty of giving in to both of my kids as well. I am such a bad parent. Once, my kids had chocolate ice cream for breakfast because well, it's fun to be a parent.

[watcherwoman]

Maybe Will is just one of those kids, like many, many kids who prefers to socialize on his own or with 1-2 kids. My son was not and still is not, a social butterfly. And should it really bother anyone?

We can't give this family a break over goldfish and M&M's. I am guilty of giving in to both of my kids as well. I am such a bad parent. Once, my kids had chocolate ice cream for breakfast because well, it's fun to be a parent.

I totally agree with everything you said!

[4leafclover]

 

We can't give this family a break over goldfish and M&M's. I am guilty of giving in to both of my kids as well. I am such a bad parent. Once, my kids had chocolate ice cream for breakfast because well, it's fun to be a parent.

 

You are so right!  Not being very handy in the kitchen myself, my kids were raised on food that either came out of a box or a drive-thru window and surprise!  today they are grown, healthy, smart men who function normally in society.  Thank Goodness we didn't have cameras following us, the feedback would have devastated me.  

[jnymph]

Well I don't have kids, and very little experience with them. Coming from this non judgmental standpoint ..... Everything I saw on this episode was completely normal parental/kid interactions.

Will driving his new "car" was so much fun. His enthusiasm is contagious. I don't even care about kids & he had me squealing right along with him ! LOL!

Edited December 18, 2014 by jnymph

[Foghorn Leghorn]

There were no scenes, I was speaking hypothetically about what might have happened based on their comments about Will having a difficult time. From the comments about how upset he was, crying for his parents, how he said he wasn't making friends, etc.

 

Oh ok, thanks, I thought I missed something like when they add scenes to give you an enhanced episode and my pvr doesn't recognize it as new! 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I wonder if Zoey made any friends?  I wonder why they didn't ask her too.  I am sure Will didn't have a clue what friend means anyway just like they didn't expect Zoey to so they likely didn't ask her for that reason.    

 

"Will do we need a theme in here?" NO

"Will did you make any friends?" NO

 

It would have made better sense for both kids to be assigned a buddy in their class, I don't just mean Will and Zoey, I mean each child.  So you go in and meet a buddy and then the parents can say so did you make friends with "Tommy" today?  Do teachers use that kind of strategy I wonder?

Edited December 18, 2014 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Jellybeans]

I think most of the comments referred to Jen not wanting Will to have the goldfish, yet not being able to enforce this with Will. Jen did not give Will the goldfish because she wanted to. He took them against her wishes.

If I had a dollar for every hollar I didn't enforce I could buy Trump Towers. And my children did just fine.

I am a parent, not a dictator.

Bring on the next fish-gate.

[BitterApple]

I understand everyone's viewpoints but in the case with Jen and Will it's even more imperative that Will respect his mother and listen to her because she does not have the physical size or strength to control him. I don't think one instance of Jen caving is a huge deal, but it seems to be developing into a pattern. She tells him not to throw blocks, he throws blocks. She tells him he can't have cake, he pitches a fit until he gets cake. She tells him no goldfish, he takes and eats the goldfish. She threatens time-outs, but never follows through. I don't blame her, because I have the feeling Bill lets the kid get away with murder when she's not around, but for me personally, if I was dealing with a kid that was my size and had the maturity of a two-year old I'd probably run a tighter ship.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

There are so many reasons a child like Will may not have taken to school immediately.  It could be from being in an orphanage, it could having scheduled activities, it could be having rules, he might not like the teacher, he could have been having a bad couple of days, or he could have just been being ornery and saying no because he can.  There could be any number of other reasons. 

 

I think Will is catching up.  He's now acting more like my two year old grandson than he was earlier.  Grandson still has more vocabulary and better sentence structure, but Will is much closer to it.  The behavior is also similar and oddly I have bought grandson an electric car for Christmas.  We will not be turning him loose in a church parking lot from the get go.  We have plans to go to an enclosed tennis court for his first try.  I can easily understand Jen's concern about letting him go immediately.  The commands to the adults are similar along with the No, mine, etc.  I do see a difference in parenting styles as my daughter automatically takes anything out of grandson's hand that he filches from the pantry or the fridge.  She may then let him have it if he asks properly and it's OK.  They also react differently to the demands to sit, etc.  They tell him he needs to express that nicely and being bossy is not nice.  I hope Jen and Bill begin doing that or something similar at least when the cameras are not there.

 

Was that a typo when you said Will is catching up to your "2" year old grandson?  

 

I liked how your daughter isn't tolerating bossy behavior too.  The basics of please and thank you and saying things nicely before you get what you want.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Foghorn Leghorn

[mojito]

 

Thank Goodness we didn't have cameras following us, the feedback would have devastated me.

Especially coming from all the childless experts.

[NausetGirl]

I took that to mean that Bill was thinking about Will's social prowess that he's often displayed. Will has shown that he can charm the pants off of people, his laugh, his smile, his general attitude and demeanor. 

 

I think they thought Will was going to have a positive reaction as a social butterfly in a school setting, and instead they got the opposite. He seemed to pull away from everyone, not just run up to all the other kids determined to make friends and play around.

 

I don't believe that his maturity is even a factor in any of that, Bill certainly didn't mention that he thought Will would be outperforming the other kids.

 

This was my interpretation as well.  I think Bill expected that Will would ace his first day at school socially, as he has repeatedly been an enthusiastic participant in nearly everything they've done with him.  If I was Bill, I would have thought exactly the same thing. I think they were pleasantly-surprised that Zoey liked school though, since she's definitely the more hesitant of the two.  Zoey doesn't leap into new situations as easily as Will; she definitely hangs back and observes but eventually, when she realizes she's OK and safe, she'll venture forth.  I also see this trait as an indication of her intelligence and maturity, since even at three, it shows she thinks before acting.  I wouldn't have said this when we first saw her in India, right after her adoption, but Zoey looks like she's going to be quite an independent little spirit.

[Absolom]

Was that a typo when you said Will is catching up to your "2" year old grandson?

 

No, it was accurate and I wish it was a typo.  Grandson is a bit advanced for his age in several areas.  That isn't proud grandma, he was moved up a classroom at pre-school because of it.  Will is ahead of grandson in a few things like swimming, but not by much and Will does get one on one instruction.  I fear that if we put them in a room together, people would think they were of an age with each other.  Grandson is closer to three now than two, but Will still has quite a bit to catch up on or else grandson is way more far ahead than we've been lead to believe.  The behaviors are very similar and so are their interests.  Just last visit we dealt with the throwing of the blocks and trying to get into crackers.  It's like watching the same behavior in a different body for me. 

[NausetGirl]

I wonder if Zoey made any friends?  I wonder why they didn't ask her too.  I am sure Will didn't have a clue what friend means anyway just like they didn't expect Zoey to so they likely didn't ask her for that reason.    

 

"Will do we need a theme in here?" NO

"Will did you make any friends?" NO

 

It would have made better sense for both kids to be assigned a buddy in their class, I don't just mean Will and Zoey, I mean each child.  So you go in and meet a buddy and then the parents can say so did you make friends with "Tommy" today?  Do teachers use that kind of strategy I wonder?

 

Speaking personally, yes, I assigned buddies for different situations or events - although not usually at the very beginning of the year.  It's often better to observe for a while and see what's what and who's who before doing that. Otherwise you could end up with two very shy kids as buddies [not cool] or two very "verbal" kids [worse - LOL].  Always worked better for me to mix things up a little.

 

In Zoey's class I don't think the children would be talking all that much to each other at this point. The interaction is mostly teacher-to-students right now. The concept of "making a friend, having friends" is likely beyond what Zoey could comprehend right now. The kids are probably just watching everything that's going on intently, listening to the teacher etc. Activities would include playing, simple puzzles, being read to, learning short songs, doing very simple art activities, maybe a snack and short rest period, maybe learning little prayers if it's a church-affiliated program etc. The teacher could pair the children up as "buddies" - they'd hold each other's hands while walking to various activities, going on field trips etc. But I'm fairly sure most of the children wouldn't even know each other's names for quite a while, though I'm sure some of the brighter kids have learned some.

No, it was accurate and I wish it was a typo.  Grandson is a bit advanced for his age in several areas.  That isn't proud grandma, he was moved up a classroom at pre-school because of it.  Will is ahead of grandson in a few things like swimming, but not by much and Will does get one on one instruction.  I fear that if we put them in a room together, people would think they were of an age with each other.  Grandson is closer to three now than two, but Will still has quite a bit to catch up on or else grandson is way more far ahead than we've been lead to believe.  The behaviors are very similar and so are their interests.  Just last visit we dealt with the throwing of the blocks and trying to get into crackers.  It's like watching the same behavior in a different body for me. 

 

Wow, this is significant. I hope Bill and Jen get the chance to observe Will in his classroom where they can compare his abilities at present to what the other kids his age are doing. Even if all they're able to see is the ballpark to aim for in getting him up to speed.

Edited December 18, 2014 by NausetGirl

[mtnrunner]

 

Wow, this is significant. I hope Bill and Jen get the chance to observe Will in his classroom where they can compare his abilities at present to what the other kids his age are doing. Even if all they're able to see is the ballpark to aim for in getting him up to speed.

 

While Jen's speciality is neonatology the majority of her training is pediatrics and her personality isn't going to let her ideally sit back while her child is behind.  I have no doubt that Will has had a complete evaluation with many specialists and they know he isn't at age level in certain areas.  Given Jen's personality she will be getting him every possible therapy to make sure he has everything he needs to be successful.  Zoey as well.  My youngest is two weeks older than Will and even if I think of how she was acting last spring there is a big difference between her and Will.  Honestly I don't think Zoey is age appropriate either and behind at least 6-12 months.  Given both of their backgrounds I'm not surprised but also not worried.  Jen and Bill aren't going to let these kids fail, I see them doing whatever needed to get the kids caught up regardless if their insurance covers it or not.  One of my children was born premature and has ongoing issues from it.  In all these years of her therapy I have seen numerous parents stop therapy for their child for the year because insurance stopped paying and mom/dad have to drive their Audi/BMW/etc and that is more important to them then continuing their kids therapy.  We don't drive new cars, etc so our daughter can continue therapy when insurance stops paying for the year.  I see Jen and Bill doing the same thing without giving it a second thought.  Whatever the definition of success will be for Will and Zoey I don't see Jen doing anything other than 110% to get them there.

[Honey]

For the record I have children and grandchildren.  In my opinion, too many parents want to be their child's friend.  You should not be your child's buddy, you should be his/her parent.

 

If a child never hears the word "no" from his parents, then he expects the whole world to always say "yes".  When he gets older he's in for a rude awakening.

[NausetGirl]

While Jen's speciality is neonatology the majority of her training is pediatrics and her personality isn't going to let her ideally sit back while her child is behind.  I have no doubt that Will has had a complete evaluation with many specialists and they know he isn't at age level in certain areas.  Given Jen's personality she will be getting him every possible therapy to make sure he has everything he needs to be successful.  Zoey as well.  My youngest is two weeks older than Will and even if I think of how she was acting last spring there is a big difference between her and Will.  Honestly I don't think Zoey is age appropriate either and behind at least 6-12 months.  Given both of their backgrounds I'm not surprised but also not worried.  Jen and Bill aren't going to let these kids fail, I see them doing whatever needed to get the kids caught up regardless if their insurance covers it or not.  One of my children was born premature and has ongoing issues from it.  In all these years of her therapy I have seen numerous parents stop therapy for their child for the year because insurance stopped paying and mom/dad have to drive their Audi/BMW/etc and that is more important to them then continuing their kids therapy.  We don't drive new cars, etc so our daughter can continue therapy when insurance stops paying for the year.  I see Jen and Bill doing the same thing without giving it a second thought.  Whatever the definition of success will be for Will and Zoey I don't see Jen doing anything other than 110% to get them there.

 

Completely agree - and well-said.

[CPP83]

I don't know why this suddenly came to mind but I just had to chuckle when Zoey was in the pool, wailing her head off but when she was asked to dip her head down into the water and blow her bubbles she would and then go right back to hollering in-between, heh, I thought that was so cute.

 

Her lungs have always been one of her strongest assets and it appears that hasn't changed. Though I could guess that in the years to come she and Will might challenge each other in the pool as they get older.

Edited December 19, 2014 by CPP83

[NausetGirl]

Thank you - I was about to say exactly this when I saw your post.  My son is 4 and is in a similar program; it is a 3 hour session.  He's very speech delayed (Will is a little ahead of where my son is) and overall, on average, about a year behind where he should be in all the social/occupational/behavioral areas.  I did put him in the program with mostly 3 year olds, because 1) the kid still takes a 3 hour nap every day and we tried the other session, during which he lost his nap AND his damn mind, and 2) his birthday is less than a week before school starts in my county, so he'd already be the youngest in his class, and a year behind to boot, so I am holding him back a year from the start.  He's in class with the kids who will start kindergarten with him.

Children with invisible disabilities can "pass" (for lack of a better word) so you don't get all the stares in public.  But there's a special kind of worry with kids whose issues are not apparent; we've all seen the kid having a tantrum or meltdown and thought the parents were just ineffective, but the reality is that many kids, more than one might think, have sensory problems and get easily overwhelmed, may be autistic, or may be mentally ill.  I am grateful my teeny preemie is still short because the communication delays have made potty-training difficult, and he's still small enough that people don't think I'm a lazy mom that won't potty-train her kid.  They can also be more vulnerable to predators - ambulatory, independent, but unable to communicate anything that parents might see as a red flag.  

IF Will is developmentally delayed, that may be something the Arnold/Kleins are aware of (super-likely for Jen as a ped/neonatologist) but are glossing over.  They are walking a fine line between using their family to educate, and making sure they don't hurt their kids.  All of us can (and do) have opinions on their degree of success, but if they publicly labeled Will as delayed that could hurt him long after he "catches up." Not pride or denial, but protection would be the first instinct.  I am very cautious about allowing my son to be labeled with anything that may hold him back from what I know he can do, while weighing the benefits of those labels (diagnoses get services).  I can't imagine that on a national TV scale.

On another note, I loved getting to see the simulation center in action.  My NICU was amazing but if they had a center like that I was not aware of it.  We did "room in" the night before we went home, and were required to take an infant CPR class, and that was it.  We were very fortunate in that we didn't come home on a trach, but I completely understood the gratitude and pride in herself that mom showed.  

 

Very well-said, AuntJen. I believe Bill and Jen are completely aware of Will's issues and are not going public with everything for the exact reasons you give. Having a reality show doesn't mean they have to share every detail of their lives with us. That being said, if there are issues they prefer to keep private for the sake of the kids and the future, it might be time to pull the plug on TLC. What's best for the kids needs to be their greatest concern.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

...if there are issues they prefer to keep private for the sake of the kids and the future, it might be time to pull the plug on TLC. What's best for the kids needs to be their greatest concern.

 

Unfortunately privacy and having a show on tv don't go together.    

[BitterApple]

  Zoey doesn't leap into new situations as easily as Will; she definitely hangs back and observes but eventually, when she realizes she's OK and safe, she'll venture forth.  I also see this trait as an indication of her intelligence and maturity, since even at three, it shows she thinks before acting. 

I think as they get older, Will and Zoey will provide good balance for one another. If Will gets too reckless, Zoey will be the voice of reason that pulls him back. In turn, Will's sense of adventure may push Zoey to come out of her shell and try new experiences. They're like the perfect yin and yang.

Edited December 19, 2014 by BitterApple

[NausetGirl]

Especially coming from all the childless experts.

 

Many people who have never given birth/raised kids know a great deal about children and child development.  And it is often individuals who are not personally-involved or have an emotional stake that can more correctly assess situations, offer suggestions, do therapy or remediation, plan and carry out treatment.  You don't have to lay the egg to know how to cook it.