S04.E09: Tupperware Party Massacre

[Mattipoo]

Sarah Paulson's acting in this episode was fantastic! I totally believed the 2 twins' bond and love for each other.

Was surprised that Ryan Murphy did not take the opportunity to show a freaky sex scene between conjoined twins and lobster boy. It might still happen in a future episode I think.

If I were Gabourey Sidibe I would have gladly gotten in the tub with Dandy.

[Guest]

Also, I don't know if RM meant it this way, but when the least disturbing sexual overture comes from the two-headed woman, you know you have written some twisted stuff. Jimmy using Ima for "comfort?" Nasty. Stanley stroking off his massive wang to manipulate Dell? Gross. Women paying Lobster Boy for sexual pleasure? Ick.

I also found it kind of gross that they had to throw a line in there when Bette was trying to talk Jimmy into being with her, something about "Two of us to care for you, two mouths..."  I mean, they had just explained that Dot was going to give them privacy.  Now, Bette is pimping out her mouth?  I think the writers just couldn't NOT go there.  Half of the opening montage is freak sexual innuendo, isn't it? 

[designing1]

 

I'm glad that we didn't see the Tupperware party killings but I'll admit that I would have liked to have seen the moment where one or more of the women present suddenly realize that the handsome and charming young stranger that they've allowed to join their party is..."off" to put it mildly.

 

I would have liked to see how one man -- presumably without a gun, as that hasn't been his MO -- managed to kill so many women at once.

Edited December 12, 2014 by designing1

[ladyrott]

I am guessing the lovely 50s housewives just stood there having vapors while Dandy murdered their cohorts.  LOL  Those women cracked me up every time they were on screen.  I am kind of sorry Dandy managed to whack them all.  What is Jimmy gonna do for spare money now?  And was I the only one in a fit of laugher when the first wife was talking about giving her husband and blowjob and getting a new stove (or was it a refrigerator?)?! 

[Avaleigh]

I'm guessing that Dandy went to use the phone in another room. He might have killed the host out of sight of the others. Then one or two go to check on them and and Dandy is ready waiting to attack. After that he'd have about three women to go and do we even know if he used a gun?

Not that I've thought about this much or anything. ;-)

[Captanne]

I find ManBaby unbelievably tedious and I absolutely don't want to see his ass.

 

If much more time is spent on this childish "ooh we show his bottom" business and on this character, the show will lose me as a viewer.  I haven't like his character or the actor since he first came on the scene and this immature shit isn't helping.

 

Honestly, if I want to see narcissistic sadism, I'll watch Bob Guccione's* "Caligula" with Malcolm McDowell, Helen Mirren, Peter O'Toole and John Gielgud.  Plenty of freakish behaviour, murder and genitals.  Hey, Murphy -- you bore me.  It's been done before and far better.

 

*Yes, that Bob Guccione.  The man's a pro, Murphy.  Take a lesson.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Captanne

[RazzleberryPie]

I'm guessing that Dandy went to use the phone in another room. He might have killed the host out of sight of the others. Then one or two go to check on them and and Dandy is ready waiting to attack. After that he'd have about three women to go and do we even know if he used a gun?

Not that I've thought about this much or anything. ;-)

You've clearly thought about it more than RM and the writers......

[AlwaysWatching]

I would have liked to see how one man -- presumably without a gun, as that hasn't been his MO -- managed to kill so many women at once. designing1

 

 

I think my mind went right to Richard Speck and that might be why a scene that they didn't graphically show upset me more than I thought it would. Speck killed eight nurses...I'm not looking this up...it was close to eight, if not eight, by threatening to kill one of the others until they were all dead. I think he used a knife.  One of them ( all nursing students in a dorm type room) hid under a bed and was saved and they caught him right away.  I remember seeing it on the front page of the Chicago papers in the morning before I went to school.  I realized then that the world was a very different place than I had thought.

[RedheadZombie]

Why is Ima so eager for Drunken Sot Jimmy's attentions? She literally just met him! And are the freaks going to put on a damn show again anytime soon while there's still enough of a cast to do so? 

 

Because she's fat.  Everybody knows that fat women are disgusting and desperate.  At this point, it looks like this character was written simply to laugh at the insecure fat slob, begging for a fuck. 

 

Stanley whips it out to show Del! and starts doing his thing.     Again....gross!  Actually a little part of me was kind of wanting to see, but it's best we don't. Plus I don't think it would get past the censors.  Maybe on a channel like HBO or the likes.

 

I have HBO, and haven't seen male full frontal.  There's a rumor that an erect penis qualifies for porn or rating NC-17.   Anyway, this episode crossed into frat boy for me.  How much penis could be fit into an hour program?  Talking about them, fumbling in your pants for them, referring to them, jerking off, and culminating in a "Suck my cock" - in the literal sense.  I'm sure it was supposed to be titillating, but I found it the opposite.  And sexist.  Can you even imagine a female character with her hand at her crotch, masturbating with her hand in her pants, and saying the female equivalent to "Suck my cock"?   I get it Ryan Murphy - you've got a penis.  You obviously love it and spend the majority of your day with your hand down your pants.  Well we all have sexual organs, big deal.

 

I think my mind went right to Richard Speck and that might be why a scene that they didn't graphically show upset me more than I thought it would. Speck killed eight nurses...I'm not looking this up...it was close to eight, if not eight, by threatening to kill one of the others until they were all dead. I think he used a knife.  One of them ( all nursing students in a dorm type room) hid under a bed and was saved and they caught him right away.  I remember seeing it on the front page of the Chicago papers in the morning before I went to school.  I realized then that the world was a very different place than I had thought.

 

I thought of that, too.  I'm from Chicago, and grew up on those stories.  The worst part was the Tupperware ladies were deliberately unlikeable, so it was supposed to be cute that Dandy killed them all.

[Captanne]

On HBO there is full frontal.  As a matter of fact, I mentioned John Oliver's "old man penis" montage in my first version of my comment above.  Then, for editorial reasons deleted it.  (I thought we saw Sir John Gielgud's penis in "Caligula" but was mistaken.  That wasn't until he did Peter Greenaway's version of The Tempest called "Prospero's Books."  Delighted viewers will want to know that Sir John was MUCH older by that time so we really got a treat.  Or not.)

Edited December 14, 2014 by Captanne

[Captanne]

ETA:  John Oliver is a wonderful comedian who has a "fake" news show on HBO.  He is of the Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert group.  His half hour "news" show puts a very European spin on the reportage.  It's just wonderful.

[Guest]

Because she's fat.  Everybody knows that fat women are disgusting and desperate.  At this point, it looks like this character was written simply to laugh at the insecure fat slob, begging for a fuck. 

I don't really understand their message too when they show Jimmy getting aroused by feeding her or watching her eat.  Is it just that they have to sexualize every aspect of these people?  Like how poor Bette had to disrobe to show her love for Jimmy, she couldn't just say it and see how he replied.  

 

Stanley masturbating would've been less stupid to me if he hadn't been apparently slapping it against his leg.  And the implication was that a closeted gay man can't resist a giant cock, even on someone who disgusts him?  

[Captanne]

I found this whole past episode amazingly insulting.  None of it made any sense.  It was like a 7th grader trying WAY too hard to shock an adult with absurd non-sensical prurience.  Like someone who vaguely knows what is taboo but doesn't understand why so he has all the right pieces but arranges them wrong.  

 

It was just way off.  The whole hot mess.

[DollEyes]

Delurking with my thoughts on this episode. Just when it seems like Stanley can't get any worse, he does, whether it's at Dot/Bette or Dell's expense. Stanley's flogging his log at Dell and "Dr. Hustler," as I call him, just proves how repulsive he is, as does his scamming Dot and Bette. Stanley can't meet Mordrake soon enough for me.

 

 

I think Dandy just may be the last one standing.

 

 

  I hope not. Dandy's just a spoiled, sociopathic brat who doesn't care about any human life but his own, partially because of the way he was raised-or rather, not raised- by Gloria, who coddled, enabled and/or covered for Dandy every chance she got, which backfired, to say the least. That said, Dandy's crimes are just that-Dandy's crimes. Dandy has kidnapped, tortured and/or killed way too many victims for me to be turned on by him or to feel sorry for him. Most of Dandy's victims weren't/aren't saints, but they were still better people than Dandy. Regina wasn't my favorite character either, but she didn't deserve to die because of Dandy anymore than Dora did. Regina's downfall was her naivete, aka her stupidity, whether it was her, a poor Black woman, accusing Dandy, a rich White man, of murder without proof, going back to Dandy's house with just one cop or thinking that when confronted, Dandy wouldn't have either flat-out denied her accusations or have her killed to cover up the truth.

 

  Speaking of which, the cop who killed Regina shouldn't have taken Dandy's word for it where the million-dollar-bribe was concerned. Instead of asking Dandy for a shovel, the cop should have asked for cash or a signed check. Dandy may be a rich, handsome, straight White man, but his victims aren't. Gloria aside, they didn't have the advantages that Dandy has, physical, social nor financial, especially the latter. Dandy needs to learn the hard way that beauty, wealth and power aren't licenses to get away with murder. Since the cops can't or won't stop Dandy, I predict that Maggie will join forces with the other freaks to deal with him, Stanley, Dell and Elsa and to save Jimmy. I also predict that Mordrake will take Dandy's soul, but not to Heaven like Dandy might expect, since Dandy thinks he's a god now. Mordrake might be so offended by Dandy's arrogance and sense of entitlement that he makes sure that Dandy goes to Hell, where he'll get the punishment that he richly deserves. My definition of Dandy's Hell would be losing his looks and his status and being stuck in the lowest depths with the lowest of the low while being tormented by the images of all his victims but one-Gloria, who'll be right there with him where she belongs, being and making Dandy miserable forever.

Edited December 16, 2014 by DollEyes

[Mattipoo]

Is Denis O'Hare gay in real life? He seems to be having lots of fun playing a gay character this season, compared to his previous roles as the mute butler in "Coven" and the burned man in "Murder House".

Edited December 13, 2014 by Mattipoo

[giovannif7]

Is Denis O'Hare gay in real life? He seems to be having lots of fun playing a gay character this season, compared to his previous roles as the mute butler in "Coven" and the burned man in "Murder House".

According to Wikipedia O'Hare has been out since high school, and married his husband a few years ago, so I'd go with gay. And while he always does a good job in his roles, I definitely appreciate the little (and big) things he brings to gay characters like Freak Show's Stanley and True Blood's Russell Edgington.

[Madding crowd]

I found this episode disgusting as well. I also don't understand TV censorship at times. On the last episode of SOA, the after show was bleeped several times, once when the character said shit and another time bullshit. This show, also on FX and showing at an earlier time can say "Suck my cock" and that's alright? I have no problem with language, sex or nudity as long as it fits the story. This episode was just one long "See how shocking I am".

 

Ryan Murphy obviously doesn't know much about women. We do not want to see a drunk man screwing a fat women in disgust (nor feeding her to make her fatter). Also, the Tupperware women would not want someone with scarily rough hands, doing anything to them, and penetration is not the only thing that turns women on. And a woman who was too shy to give her own husband oral sex, would not let Jimmy do anything to her. 

 

Sadly, I am also tired of Dandy. The actor is very handsome and I liked his interaction with Twisty, but a whining man baby can only be tolerated in small doses. The only left for the character is to murder some more and then be made into a freak and taken in by Elsa.

[Blakeston]

I have HBO, and haven't seen male full frontal.  There's a rumor that an erect penis qualifies for porn or rating NC-17.

 

I'm guessing you weren't a fan of Oz, then?

 

There have also been penises on HBO on Game of Thrones, True Blood, and Deadwood, off the top of my head. 

 

FX, being on basic cable, doesn't have restrictions on what it can show. But I'd imagine they have policies against showing a penis - let alone an erect one, let alone a man masturbating. That's the kind of thing that could lead to Congress trying to place limitations on what they can show.

[sheetmoss]

I'm guessing you weren't a fan of Oz, then?

 

There have also been penises on HBO on Game of Thrones, True Blood, and Deadwood, off the top of my head. 

 

FX, being on basic cable, doesn't have restrictions on what it can show. But I'd imagine they have policies against showing a penis - let alone an erect one, let alone a man masturbating. That's the kind of thing that could lead to Congress trying to place limitations on what they can show.

No, cable is not under FCC purview, but my understanding  is any censorimg is due to not offending.the sponsors/advetisers

 

Also, somebody upthread mentioned how language on SOA was bleeped, I noticed that when USA's SUITS is rerun during the daytime it's also bleeped. Noticed it w/Sirens as well.

Edited December 14, 2014 by sheetmoss

[Blakeston]

No, cable is not under FCC purvue, but my understanding  is any censorimg is due to not offending.the sponsors/advetisers

 

Right, but I'm saying that if basic cable networks started showing things like a man stroking his erect 13" penis, Congress might try to change the way the system currently works.

[Captanne]

I am not a First Amendment attorney (I wish I was!), I have no idea about FX and what AHS/Murphy can show because I am an appointment television watcher.  I tune in for the show not the network.  All I know is what does appear on my television -- not the likelihood.  A quick Google search would tell me if I cared to look it up.

 

Murphy's episode this past week was atrocious and no full frontal was going to help it, in my opinion.

 

But HBO routinely shows full frontal male and female.  If a film has it, HBO leaves it uncensored.  Along with other lists, I mentioned the most recent one I saw which was John Oliver's 5 minute (or it felt like it) homage to Old Man Penis.  We saw many, many old man penises.  Up close and personal.

 

Penis. *

 

So, anyway, I believe that when it comes (Ha!) to cable, it's up to the network's discretion.  Comedy Central self-censors.  That's why the Oliver piece would never have aired when he was guesting for Jon Stewart over the summer.

 

But on HBO he has free rein.

 

(Cinemax used to be called "Skin-emax" if that's a clue.)

 

ETA:  *Finally found it.  YouTube pulled it because it -- wait for it -- violated its censorship self-policed rules.  See what they did there?  It's not just cable.  The Internet also self-censors.  God, that's better than Congress getting involved.  Just another argument for net neutrality if you ask me.

 

For the penises, please go to the 9:40 point in the embedded video on their site.

 

EETA:  Chattygal, excellent point about whether or not a channel has paid advertising or sponsors.  There can be no doubt that $$ is a factor in any (or, all of the) decision making process.

 

E3TA:  Also, while I think we are bordering on being off topic -- I think it's an important public conversation to have when discussing a show like AHS, especially when it flounders.  The descent into childish prurience which can gut a show's credibility -- as we see here, in my opinion, in last week's episode, naturally leads one to a conversation about censorship and the role it plays in modern media.

 

Perhaps it's a topic worthy of its own thread but I don't think so.  The only episode of Freakshow I've seen get ruined by immaturity was this one.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Captanne

[bunnywithanaxe]

The more I hear about the stuff that Natalie Dormer says, the more I like that woman.

[DollEyes]

  Back on topic, I'm among those who doesn't feel the least bit sorry for Dell re his suicide attempt. At least he had a choice in the matter; otoh, his victims, especially Ma Petite, not so much. Desiree's boyfriend may not be a paragon of virtue, but he's not a cold-blooded killer either, I'm guessing. Dell's a self-centered, self-loathing closet case who deserves to die, not because he's a homosexual maniac, but because he's a homicidal one who's willing to kill innocent people to protect himself. I'm glad Ethel came back to haunt Dell because he treated her like shit like he treats everyone else. My theory about why Dell's suicide attempt failed is because Fate has something worse in store for him. I don't have much use for Maggie, but if she can make Dell and/or Stanley suffer, that's fine with me. Regarding Jimmy and his downward spiral, it's a disgrace to Ethel's memory. Jimmy's booty call with Ima doesn't bother me because she's letting Jimmy use her. Like the saying goes, "No one can take advantage of you without your permission." It's Dandy's setting Jimmy up that bugs me. Jimmy's no saint by a long shot, but he doesn't deserve to be framed for something he didn't do by someone who's worse, to put it mildly.

 

 

Honestly, if I want to see narcissistic sadism, I'll watch Bob Guccione's* Caligula with Malcolm McDowell, Helen Mirren, Peter O'Toole and John Gielgud. Plenty of freakish behavior, murder and genitals. Hey Murphy-you bore me. It's been done before and far better.

 

*Yes, that Bob Guccione. The man's a pro, Murphy. Take a lesson.

 

  As someone who's seen the Director's Cut of  Caligula, I respectfully disagree. It was over 2 and a 1/2 hours of my life that I'll never get back. That movie was almost as hideous as the title character and a waste of the stars. Caligula is a prime example of a bad movie happening to great actors. When it comes to well-made cinematic portraits of "narcissistic sadism,"  Caligula doesn't hold a candle to Silence Of the Lambs-which, despite Jame Gumm's lack of genitals, had plenty of craziness and death, courtesy of Gumm and Dr. Hannibal Lecter. As infuriating as Ryan Murphy can be, at least he's shown that he's occasionally capable of greatness, as The Normal Heart proves; otoh, Bob Guccione wasn't even capable of that much.

Edited December 15, 2014 by DollEyes

[Avaleigh]

Rome had male full frontal too definitely more than one scene. Not only that but in one scene fully clothed women are discussing the man's size right in front of him as though he were nothing more than a sexual object.

HBO definitely has a history of showing penises. (As do Starz and Showtime.) I personally don't feel like I need to see a penis every time I see a naked woman being shown in a scene. (This doesn't mean I cheer for lopsided nudity when it comes to gender I'm just not sure that I'm convinced that this is a huge issue--the idea that male full frontal nudity is this super rare thing doesn't seem to be the case anymore as it once was. ) Furthermore I can't say that I've ever seen a show where a woman has done full frontal without a merkin or open legged while the men who do go full frontal completely have to put everything out there.

To yank this post back on topic, I didn't exactly feel like the show was trying to say that Jimmy having sex with Ima was gross specifically because she's fat. If say Lizard girl had been the girl he was caught with or even some random average girl I still would have felt like Jimmy wasbeing a sloppy mess. I also agree with the coment from Emma's character that Ima could have been anyone as far as Jimmy was concerned. Jimmy was clearly wasted and has been for days. I thought the scene said a lot more about Jimmy being in a bad place emotionally as opposed to being especially insulting about obese women in general.

Also, since this is AHS I think that an image of a guy manipulating a lonely fat woman while spoon feeding her some horribly unhealthy substance is a pretty unsettling image so I can see why it was used. The idea of that woman being encouraged to pack on more weight and the scenes of that giant table of food being for one person definitely qualifies as horrifying IMHO.

ETA

I hate that Ethel went to her grave being okay with and accepting of Dell as a more or less alright person while her feelings about Elsa turned to full blown hatred when Dell is the one responsible for killing an innocent like Ma Petite. Ma Petite was the dealbreaker for Ethel and probably would be for a few others if they knew but it seems like Dell isn't going to be held to account. Unless Elsa or Eve find out--I think they're probably the only two characters along with Jimmy who would instantly want to avenge her death.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Avaleigh

[editorgrrl]

I hate that Ethel went to her grave being okay with and accepting of Dell as a more or less alright person while her feelings about Elsa turned to full blown hatred.

Dell's and Jimmy's hallucinations reflect their respective feelings—not Ethel's.

Edited December 14, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Captanne]

DollEyes, I didn't mean to imply I liked Caligula!!  LOL  But I do think it was done better -- which is what I said.  Certainly the acting was superior.  Hard to get that sort of cast together and not have better acting than a less well-trained or experienced group that consists of a real head-liner like Jessica Lange or Cathy Bates and the rest are up and down.  Chiklis brings it, Angela Bassett chews the scenery and I don't like either the Manbaby or the Fortune Teller.  Also, they were better funded  -- which is bound to end up with better production values (given respect for the difference in technological advances based on when the respective cinematography was done.)

 

Neither here nor there, but Caligula was a mess.  I'd still take it over last week's episode of AHS if we're looking for something that wasn't a waste of space and, frankly, a disappointment because there are parts of AHS this season I've genuinely enjoyed.  More often than not, as a matter of fact.  

Edited December 14, 2014 by Captanne

[LoneHaranguer]

 

But HBO routinely shows full frontal male and female.  If a film has it, HBO leaves it uncensored.

The local PBS stations take the same approach (and they have no trouble getting corporate sponsors), but nudity is often used as a crutch in movies to keep viewer attention in lieu of good writing, so I hate to think how much worse this season would be if this show could employ the same trick.

[rubinia]

 

I don't really understand their message too when they show Jimmy getting aroused by feeding her or watching her eat.  Is it just that they have to sexualize every aspect of these people?

At first, I thought it was implied that Ima was replacing Ethel as Jimmy's need for a mother figure. When Jimmy first hugged her and buried  his face on her bosom, it seemed more like a child needing comfort than a sexual thing. And maybe he likes her getting fatter because it means she's bigger and softer for him to cuddle with. But then I'm not sure how that leads to him banging her and talking about how she "tastes."

 

Caligula was able to take 2.5 hours of insanity and hardcore sex and make it BORING.

[editorgrrl]

Sarah Paulson killed it this episode, but it bothers me that the media is making such a huge deal about her playing two characters when Tatiana Maslany plays so many on Orphan Black.

[marcee]

Seems to me the twins aren't long for this world. Didn't they intentionally show us Ma Petit floating in the glass jar before it happened? Then it happened...

If I'm not mistaken, we've seen the twins on display as well. (Remember, they explained how one died before the other.) It may not have happened the way Stanley imagined it would happen (ie poisoned cupcakes) but I fully expect it to happen. I believe those 'fantasies' were actually flash forwards and it makes me sad.

[Blakeston]

Seems to me the twins aren't long for this world. Didn't they intentionally show us Ma Petit floating in the glass jar before it happened? Then it happened...

 

We saw a dream sequence involving Ma Petite and a jar, but it showed her drowning in the jar. We didn't see anything in that dream sequence that actually happened.

[Avaleigh]

We also saw the seal guy on display so I'm not sure that the shots of the twins were meant to be flashes forward.

[marcee]

Yeah, the dream sequences were the fakeouts, but the end result (at least for Ma Petit) was the same. I fear for the twins.

And I completely forgot about seeing the seal guy on display. Ouch. Yeah.

[editorgrrl]

And I completely forgot about seeing the seal guy on display. Ouch. Yeah.

Paul's been set dressing for several episodes. Then again, Toulouse has never been anything else. At least Paul had a storyline for a while.