TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[opus]

I'm not a big watcher of this channel, but I noticed tonight they're running CHICAGO (2002). That seemed new-ish to me. How recent do they usually get?

[Bastet]

Oh, they'll throw in something fairly recent (in the grand scheme of film) from time to time, and there's always a segment of the audience that pitches a fit when they air anything from the '70s forward.  I recall someone representing the network made a statement back at the beginning of TCM's existence that "classic" wasn't reserved for old, but it has been a bone of contention for the lifetime of the network.

 

TCM is premiering a few modern films tonight, part of its "31 Days of Oscar" programming; we'll see how many future airings any of these films get.

 

Bastet, I'm unfamiliar with the Fonda-Ford battles on Mister Roberts. Also didn't know portions were directed by others. If you can fill us in on all of that, I'll appreciate it.

 

That could be a novel.  I searched for a concise - and seemingly accurate - article somewhere, but wound up with a hodgepodge.  Perhaps someone else will have a good suggestion?  The absolute bare bones version is Fonda took issue with Ford's interpretation of the play (too much silly and slapstick) and the two came to blows.  Mervyn LeRoy ultimately took over as director, but the Broadway production's director is also unofficially credited with some parts, even though only Ford and LeRoy are named as such in the credits (I think the other guy got a co-writing credit).

Edited March 2, 2015 by Bastet

[Julia]

That could be a novel.  I searched for a concise - and seemingly accurate - article somewhere, but wound up with a hodgepodge.  Perhaps someone else will have a good suggestion?  The absolute bare bones version is Fonda took issue with Ford's interpretation of the play (too much silly and slapstick) and the two came to blows.  Mervyn LeRoy ultimately took over as director, but the Broadway production's director is also unofficially credited with some parts, even though only Ford and LeRoy are named as such in the credits (I think the other guy got a co-writing credit).

Oh, please, short form? I've never heard this story and I'm all acquiver.

[monakane]

Yes. I am tempted to say, "Never trust someone who doesn't like Eve Arden."

 

Amen.  Who wouldn't want Eve as their best friend?  

 

I love the pre-code movies on TCM.  My particular favorites are "Three on a Match", "Babyface", "Public Enemy", and "Night Nurse".  The dialogue and the situations were much more realistic than the movies that came after.  One of the things about the movies from the 1930s that strikes me is that Joan Crawford seemed to be a better actress on screen than Bette Davis.  I find Bette too theatrical and Joan more natural.  This switched as they matured and Bette became the better actress and Joan got campy.  YMMV.  I would love to get some feedback.

[Sharpie66]

For those that like the early '60s British movies, I highly recommend Seance on a Wet Afternoon, starring Richard Attenborough and Kim Stanley. It is just excellent!

[Coffeecup]

A somewhat heady New York Times piece on the therapeutic value of TCM:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/01/magazine/letter-of-recommendation-turner-classic-movies.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=nytimesarts

 

I thnk we can all somewhat relate. :-)

I disagree about Eve Arden too; I love her.

 

But I agree with him about the authenticity of old movies -- no green-screening, no CGI crowds of extras. The old movies had real sets and real live extras. "Cast of thousands!"  I love seeing actors with real bodies too, in the days before breast implants and six-pack abs. Women and men looked natural in the old films, or as natural as you could look with makeup and wigs. I remember reading an article about the trouble producers had recently when casting a movie about Andy Warhol and the nightclubs of the 60s. They needed people who were not well-toned gym rats and didn't have implants. In the 60s few people went to gyms, and (I think) breast implants hadn't been invented yet.  Nobody had puffy fake blowfish lips either.

 

He's also right about the value of escapism. It can be very calming to sit down and watch TCM for a few hours when you are under stress. I think this is why I prefer pre-1980s movies on TCM. The more recent movies tend to be about characters with problems I face in my everyday life. It's better escapism to watch movies from the 30s through the early 70s. Maybe this depends on your age. I was an adult in the 70s, so many of the 70s-90s storylines feel too contemporary for me to relax and "escape" while watching the films.

[elle]

I'm not a big watcher of this channel, but I noticed tonight they're running CHICAGO (2002). That seemed new-ish to me. How recent do they usually get?

Last night was the Oscar winner of 1998 Shakespeare in Love.  As mentioned, these films are being shown as part of the 31 Days of Oscar.

 

While the Lord of the Rings trilogy on TCM tonight is like planets realignment for me, I am excited to see that tomorrow I will finally get the chance to see The Artist.

 

Tripping back to the Jack Lemmon discussion, my favorite quote about him is from Carrie Fisher.  She narrates the TCM tribute to her mother and at the end she adds that her mom had a crush on Jack Lemmon, "Huge!"  The only time she thought her mother should good taste in men.  :o)

[Wiendish Fitch]

I love the pre-code movies on TCM.  My particular favorites are "Three on a Match", "Babyface", "Public Enemy", and "Night Nurse".  The dialogue and the situations were much more realistic than the movies that came after.  One of the things about the movies from the 1930s that strikes me is that Joan Crawford seemed to be a better actress on screen than Bette Davis.  I find Bette too theatrical and Joan more natural.  This switched as they matured and Bette became the better actress and Joan got campy.  YMMV.  I would love to get some feedback.

 

 

My favorite pre-code film is Design for Living. It's directed by the great Ernst Lubitsch, and it's about a menage a trois. Yup, it's a love triangle movie, where no one (refreshingly, it's two men, not two women) is "chosen". It's handled in a lighthearted yet surprisingly adult way that could never, ever be made today. Lubitsch was the only director who could make the normally shrill and hammy Miriam Hopkins tolerable, and Gary Cooper (who I admit has never done anything for me) has never looked more handsome. It even has good ol' Edward Everett Horton, and for once the screenplay is almost sympathetic towards him (though he's still as hilariously pompous and clueless as ever). I think it's one of Lubitsch's best.

 

I also admire Red-Headed Woman. Holy Moses, Jean Harlow is out of control in this movie! She seems to truly relish playing of the most amoral anti-heroines ever (for the record, Harlow was said to be an absolute doll in real life), and she really gives a fearless, visceral performance… and she was only 21!  I really think it paved the way for movies like Body Heat, The Last Seduction, and Basic Instinct.

Red-Headed Woman was written by Anita Loos, who also wrote Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, and I think the former is superior to the latter. Harlow's Lil would eat Marilyn Monroe's Lorelai for dinner.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Wiendish Fitch

[monakane]

Wiendish Fitch, I have seen Red-Headed Woman and I love it.  I have not seen Design for Living.  I will check it out.  Thanks!

[chitowngirl]

I watched Fiddler on the Roof last night for the first time. Wow, that movie did nothing for me. 

[voiceover]

Let me now praise Shakespeare in Love; totally deserving of the Best Picture Oscar.  A screenplay that's clever, hilarious, smart, and ultimately, touching; a cast that is terrific, down to the one-line roles.  One of my favorite things about this film? the throwaway stuff for anyone paying attention ("I liked all the blood.."  "What's your name, boy?"  "John Webster.")  I think the writer's branch of the Academy voted en masse for this one.

 

The opening of Saving Private Ryan was original and stunning; after the first 20 minutes, though, it reverted to type.  Not that there's anything wrong with that! but Spielberg did it better with "Band of Brothers", IMO.

 

I watched Fiddler on the Roof last night for the first time. Wow, that movie did nothing for me.

 

That's a mileage thing.  I think Topol is wonderful; "If I Were a Rich Man" brings tears of joy, every time I watch him deliver it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by voiceover

[aradia22]

I decided to put on Kiss Me Kate (1953) today. I can't believe this is the first time I'm getting around to this movie, but then I've always opted for that PBS filmed stage version with Rachel York and Brent Barrett which I love. And now for some very scattered thoughts...

 

I think we talked about this on the old TWoP board but I'm very curious about what this movie would be like in 3D.

Howard Keel is very attractive. 

The Cole Porter in this movie is not as bad as Cary Grant as Cole Porter but it's still... a flattering portrayal.

Kathryn Grayson does not seem like a very good actress.

Ann Miller is a ball of fire. She woke up the movie. I'm not in love with the choreography in the Too Darn Hot number but her legs are fantastic. Her dancing has just been better in other movies. I don't think she plays dumb that well though. She was fine up to a point when the character just seemed naive but say, when she was accusing Fred of giving the song to Lily, it felt forced. 

Bill is kind of a useless character in this version but the actor is a great dancer.

Even though that makeup and red hair looked very harsh on her, I finally found Kathryn Grayson charming during Wunderbar. She really seems more suited to operetta. Maybe I'll give one of them a chance one day. I tend to skip them when they come up on the schedule.

Oh, God. That terribly unfortunate green eyeshadow on Kathryn Grayson during So In Love.

"I Hate Men" felt particularly lackluster to me comparing it to Rachel York's version. Kathryn Grayson has the wrong vocal style and she doesn't play the comic song very well. It's all one note.

Howard Keel is adorable in this part. It does feel like his other characters (Adam Pontipee, Frank Butler) but he's a bit softer here. There's more of that actor's vanity. It's a sillier part. He doesn't have to wear the same kind of arrogance and male machismo.

 

Overall, I'd say the stars of this movie were Howard Keel, Ann Miller, and the tap dancing. Like a lot of movie musicals, I feel like they sacrificed any substance in favor of musical numbers. I'm glad that I've seen it but if this was my first introduction to Kiss Me Kate, I don't think I'd like the show as much. 

[Julia]

The opening of Saving Private Ryan was original and stunning; after the first 20 minutes, though, it reverted to type.  Not that there's anything wrong with that! but Spielberg did it better with "Band of Brothers", IMO.

 

and my husband is duly grateful, because the fingermarks I left on his arm during that first twenty minutes didn't fade for weeks.

 

That's a mileage thing.  I think Topol is wonderful; "If I Were a Rich Man" brings tears of joy, every time I watch him deliver it.

I thought Topol was just fine, but it kind of breaks my heart that it wasn't Zero Mostel. I know Norman Jewison tried to play it as preferring the more naturalistic style of the London production, but I'm always going to believe that he was still letting HUAC tell him who to hire in 1971, which is kind of craven. I also think he hired Josh Mostel for Jesus Christ Superstar as a sort of amends, but it reportedly didn't work (Zero Mostel is supposed to have said he should have hired Topol's kid).

 

ETA: aradia22, I saw Kiss Me Kate in 3D at the old 8th Street Playhouse. It was wonderful. Better than Dial M for Murder, the only other movie in the 3D festival which actually used the 3D instead of just throwing things at the audience occasionally.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Julia

[Wiendish Fitch]

I thought Topol was absolutely, undeniably fantastic in Fiddler on the Roof. Sometimes I prefer it when they get a fresh talent for the film adaptation of a Broadway musical. I've no doubt Zero Mostel was marvelous, but you know what? After that many performances, who's to say he wasn't burned out on the part? Rex Harrison seemed to be treading water in the film version of My Fair Lady, and Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick may as well have been comatose in The Producers. Topol was great, and I think it's unfair to him that, almost 45 years later, we're still lamenting that Zero Mostel wasn't in the movie.

 

I'm not saying this is always the case; Joel Grey was wonderful in Cabaret (I'm so thrilled he beat out Al Pacino for the Best Supporting Actor Oscar). And the good folks at Motown should have fought tooth and nail to get Stephanie Mills to star in the film version of The Wiz and told Diana Ross to sit her skinny, too old ass to sit down and shut up ("Dorothy's an ageless character"? Whatever, Diana).

[elle]

re: Fiddler on the Roof

That's a mileage thing.  I think Topol is wonderful; "If I Were a Rich Man" brings tears of joy, every time I watch him deliver it.

I agree that Topol is wonderful in this movie.  I think he does a wonderful job showing the humanity of this man and how he was feeling as his world is coming apart around him.  My favorite song is "To Life" where the townspeople are dancing and celebrating with Topol.  There is also the great nightmare sequence, Topol makes up to convince Golda that their eldest daughter is meant to marry the tailor.  I wonder how that worked out on stage.

 

I decided to put on Kiss Me Kate (1953) today. I can't believe this is the first time I'm getting around to this movie, but then I've always opted for that PBS filmed stage version with Rachel York and Brent Barrett which I love. And now for some very scattered thoughts...

 

I think we talked about this on the old TWoP board but I'm very curious about what this movie would be like in 3D.

Howard Keel is very attractive. 

The Cole Porter in this movie is not as bad as Cary Grant as Cole Porter but it's still... a flattering portrayal.

Kathryn Grayson does not seem like a very good actress.

Ann Miller is a ball of fire. She woke up the movie. I'm not in love with the choreography in the Too Darn Hot number but her legs are fantastic. Her dancing has just been better in other movies. I don't think she plays dumb that well though. She was fine up to a point when the character just seemed naive but say, when she was accusing Fred of giving the song to Lily, it felt forced. 

Bill is kind of a useless character in this version but the actor is a great dancer.

Even though that makeup and red hair looked very harsh on her, I finally found Kathryn Grayson charming during Wunderbar. She really seems more suited to operetta. Maybe I'll give one of them a chance one day. I tend to skip them when they come up on the schedule.

Oh, God. That terribly unfortunate green eyeshadow on Kathryn Grayson during So In Love.

"I Hate Men" felt particularly lackluster to me comparing it to Rachel York's version. Kathryn Grayson has the wrong vocal style and she doesn't play the comic song very well. It's all one note.

Howard Keel is adorable in this part. It does feel like his other characters (Adam Pontipee, Frank Butler) but he's a bit softer here. There's more of that actor's vanity. It's a sillier part. He doesn't have to wear the same kind of arrogance and male machismo.

 

Overall, I'd say the stars of this movie were Howard Keel, Ann Miller, and the tap dancing. Like a lot of movie musicals, I feel like they sacrificed any substance in favor of musical numbers. I'm glad that I've seen it but if this was my first introduction to Kiss Me Kate, I don't think I'd like the show as much. 

Howard Keel is very attractive. - especially in the Petruchio makeup!

 

I think we talked about this on the old TWoP board but I'm very curious about what this movie would be like in 3D.

I think you can kind of get hints of it by the angles of some scenes, for example in Keel's number "The Life of late I Led", one can see how that part of the stage was to project out "into" the audience.  I think the whole 3D thing would have been very distracting for the type of movie it is.

 

I finally found Kathryn Grayson charming during Wunderbar 

That is a fun scene!  Grayson and Keel make a lovely singing duo.  The only other person who comes close is Jane Powell.  Doris Day seems to modern for Keel's more operatic baritone.

 

Ann Miller is a ball of fire.

For me, this is the movie that made me appreciate Ann Miller.  She's funny and, of course, the woman can dance!  Love the Tom, Dick, or Harry scene.

 

Must mention Bob Fosse and Tommy Rall!

[aradia22]

 

I think you can kind of get hints of it by the angles of some scenes, for example in Keel's number "The Life of late I Led", one can see how that part of the stage was to project out "into" the audience.  I think the whole 3D thing would have been very distracting for the type of movie it is.

Oh, I didn't even make that connection. It does make me wonder how often the stage was built out like that. Of course there are shows like Hair or Hedwig where the performers go out into the audience and other shows where people enter from weird places or Peter Pan or Mary Poppins where the actor flies over the audience. But I don't think there are a ton of shows with a platform like that into the audience. It doesn't seem very practical having to build that part of the stage and also sacrificing the number of seats you can fit in the theatre. But I'm sure it must have happened at some point.

 

You know it's odd how Howard Keel generally doesn't bother me in movies. I'm not sure if it's the way he plays the part or the way the part is written but I feel like he's the opposite of Gene Kelly almost. Even when I should dislike his character, there's something there that makes him likable. And no, it's not just how handsome he is. ;)

[Rinaldo]

Let me now praise Shakespeare in Love; totally deserving of the Best Picture Oscar.  

 

The opening of Saving Private Ryan was original and stunning; after the first 20 minutes, though, it reverted to type.  .

Total fervent agreement on Shakespeare in Love. It's a wonderful amalgam of everything I most love. On so many websites (the ones with movie quizzes, for instance), some commenter is bound to mouth off about "worst Oscar-winning movie ever," and their argument always seems to boil down to "any war movie is by definition better than any literary-historical-romantic comedy."

 

Besides being by-the-book for most of its length (though I certainly concede that it has its effective stretches), Saving Private Ryan doesn't play fair (I would even call it fraudulent.)

The main action is a flashback by a present-day figure who turns out to be Ryan, even though he wasn't there for half the action, and thus can't be in a position to remember it.

 

Kiss Me Kate (1953)...

 

Kathryn Grayson does not seem like a very good actress.

 

 

Bill is kind of a useless character in this version but the actor is a great dancer.

 

Overall, I'd say the stars of this movie were Howard Keel, Ann Miller, and the tap dancing. 

That all seems a fair evaluation to me, except that I would add that Kathryn Grayson is a poor singer as well as a poor actress. (And it's not any prejudice against her voice type; she's just a bad example of it.) I know I'm prejudiced by having first seen her give the worst professional stage performance of my long theatergoing life (Guenevere in the national tour of Camelot) but I see the lack of true quality in her film performances too. I'd say your summation is spot on: Keel is most welcome, Miller is fun, the dancing (Hermes Pan!) is good. The one number that really comes off well was not in the stage show (it was cut from a flop show), "From This Moment On." That's a wonderful showcase for the three boy dancers and their partners (and an early example of what Bob Fosse really liked to do).

 

The dancer who played Bill is worth a paragraph of his own: Tommy Rall. He's still alive, and I wish someone would write his biography, because it's pretty amazing. He did some early work in ballet onstage, he became known as a dancing juvenile in the movies (check out his challenge dance with -- and choreographed by -- Bob Fosse in My Sister Eileen). Then when the market for dancing juveniles in the movies dried up, he turned to stage musicals and was as valued for his singing as much as his dancing in Broadway shows till the 1970s. Then he turned to opera, and was a plausible leading tenor in operas like Lulu, Carmen, Our Lady's Juggler, Tosca. He would very occasionally show up for bits in movies like Funny Girl and Pennies from Heaven (tap-dancing alongside Steve Martin). He now lives in Los Angeles.

 

 I thought Topol was just fine, but it kind of breaks my heart that it wasn't Zero Mostel. I know Norman Jewison tried to play it as preferring the more naturalistic style of the London production, but I'm always going to believe that he was still letting HUAC tell him who to hire in 1971, which is kind of craven. 

It would be if it was true, but it doesn't seem to be supported by any of the accounts of those involved. (Altman's The Making of a Musical gives a good first-hand account of the creation of the stage show, its foreign companies, and the movie.)

 

 Mostel had made a number of movies by this time (several right around the time of Fiddler), and it seems that any qualms anybody had about letting him carry a big musical onscreen were aesthetic. The authors of the musical, Bock and Harnick and Stein, were disenchanted with Mostel by this time, having seen how irresponsible he could be onstage: they made no attempt to renew his stage contract after a year in the original production (he was outraged and said the show was sure to close without him in it). He would break character onstage, referring to items in the news or adding off-color jokes. Obviously he would not have done that in a movie, but the authors felt that they could get a better portrayal from someone else (at least one campaigned for Herschel Bernardi, one of the later Tevyes).

[chitowngirl]

That's a mileage thing.  I think Topol is wonderful; "If I Were a Rich Man" brings tears of joy, every time I watch him deliver it.

Oh, most definitely! My husband was watching with me. The only reason it was on was that The Music Man was on before it. He hates musicals (but loves opera, go figure!) and he was riveted and loved it. He liked that there was dialog and not just song, song, song. 

[Charlie Baker]

Pretty much agree with what's been said about Kiss Me Kate. Keel is quite good casting--good looking man with big voice, but he also played it very well.  I'm not so down on Grayson--I"ve enjoyed her, but she is not great casting for Lili. Jane Powell probably would have been more fun.  Love James Whitmore and Keenan Wynn as the hoods.  The revival with Marin Mazzie and Brian Stokes Mitchell was quite good--the basis of that production with Barrett and York, I think? There's a kinescope of a shortened 50s TV version with original cast Alfred Drake--don't know how available it is and don't remember how I saw it, but it's worth a look.

 

I like the movie of Fiddler but found it more affecting on stage. 

 

Am I wrong that part of the reason Shakespeare In Love's win suffered some backlash was that it was an example of Harvey Weinstein's heavy duty campaigning?

[Bastet]

Am I wrong that part of the reason Shakespeare In Love's win suffered some backlash was that it was an example of Harvey Weinstein's heavy duty campaigning?

 

That* and Gwyneth Paltrow are the main topics of grumbling about the film's wins that I remember. 

 

*As if he's the first, or only, studio head to do that; he may be the most heavy-handed at it since L.B. Mayer, but that's about it.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Bastet

[Rick Kitchen]

I just want to chip in with the Tommy Rall love.

[ennui]

I've noticed that TCM's films are becoming more recent. The LOTR trilogy is on tonight, and I see The Artist and The King's Speech listed for tomorrow. New management?

[elle]

I've noticed that TCM's films are becoming more recent. The LOTR trilogy is on tonight, and I see The Artist and The King's Speech listed for tomorrow. New management?

No.  As mentioned above, this is all part of TCM's 31 days of Oscar.  They seem to be ending it this year with the Best Picture winners of more recent years.

 

It will be nice to see any and all of the above WITHOUT commercials!

[bmoore4026]

voiceover, on 02 Mar 2015 - 4:47 PM, said:voiceover, on 02 Mar 2015 - 4:47 PM, said:voiceover, on 02 Mar 2015 - 4:47 PM, said:

That's a mileage thing.  I think Topol is wonderful; "If I Were a Rich Man" brings tears of joy, every time I watch him deliver it.

 

For me, it's Far From the Home I love.  "Papa, God alone knows when we will see each other again."  "Then, we will leave it in his hands."  Oh, God!  The feels!

 

Right now, I'm watching The Lord of the Rings trilogy.  Viggo Mortensen is a sexy, sexy man. :)

Edited March 3, 2015 by bmoore4026

[ratgirlagogo]

 

this is all part of TCM's 31 days of Oscar

Soon to come to it's blessed end for this year.  Thank god.  Whatever happened to the days when they used to show wacky things like King of the Zombies (soundtrack nomination) during 31 days of Oscar?  I really love Lord of the Rings but please.

[Julia]

Viggo Mortensen is a sexy, sexy man. :)

If you get a chance, see A Walk on the Moon. It's as opposite this role as you can imagine, but the hot is still there.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Julia

[Pickles Aplenty]

Still Netflixin' my way through all their classic movies.  Last night, I watched All About Eve for the first time, and I was...kind of bored?  It's not that I didn't enjoy the movie at all, but I thought it lagged any time Bette Davis wasn't onscreen; she was luminous while everyone else was just sort of there.  George Sanders** was all right, though, and I liked seeing Marilyn Monroe in a bit part.  She must have had some work done before becoming a big star, because she looked different somehow, especially around the chin.

 

**Speaking of George Sanders, his character is creepy as all get out, and a rapist.  No matter how despicable Eve was, she didn't deserve to have some slimeball blackmail her into sleeping with him, but I know I'm viewing this with 21st century eyes.  I'm sure audiences in 1950 felt differently.

 

 

[ennui]

I thought the 31 Days of Oscar ended with the Oscars. How odd to keep going (imho).

[Sharpie66]

A Walk on the Moon is really excellent, not just for the Viggo factor (which, yummmm!), but for all the actors, especially Tovah Feldshuh as Liev Schrieber's mother. She is one of my favorite character actors working today.

 

As for Topol in Fiddler on the Roof, I just love his performance. One of my favorite moments is during "To Life," when he is approached by the Russian to join him in the dance. He eyes the man very suspiciously and then strokes his beard in thought--that little bit speaks volumes to me. I'm a big fan of the film and the musical play itself, which I've seen several times, both at the high school level (our school did a really excellent version!), and in a touring production in Chicago with Topol himself (this is where my sister and I found out about our old high school classmate Michael Berresse's success in the stage world--it was his first paying gig outside of Disneyworld and he was one of the featured dancers, and he's since gone on to be nominated for a Tony and star in lots of stuff on Broadway). What speaks to me the most in the play is the three daughters, but what works the most in the movie is Tevye.

[magicdog]

.Speaking of George Sanders, his character is creepy as all get out, and a rapist.  No matter how despicable Eve was, she didn't deserve to have some slimeball blackmail her into sleeping with him, but I know I'm viewing this with 21st century eyes.  I'm sure audiences in 1950 felt differently

 

 

Don't sell audiences of the past short!  Sometimes my dad (who's 76) and I will watch an old film, see something that makes me gasp and I look at him and ask, "Did the audience know about such things back then?".  He always says yes.  Just because movies couldn't express things overtly didn't mean audiences at the time didn't know what was up.

 

As for Eve's character, I think many audience members believed that was the price she had to pay to be a star.  She wanted it so badly (to the point of being so underhanded with Margo and her friends) she probably thought is was a small price to pay.  The casting couch is still all too real.

 

Besides,

 she got her comeuppance with HER little fan in training who came on to her the way Eve came on to Margo.

Edited March 3, 2015 by magicdog

[Charlie Baker]

Mileage does vary. Maybe Gary Merrill and Hugh Marlowe are less than scintillating in All About Eve, but they're competent enough.  I enjoy Gregory Ratoff, and just love Celeste Holm and the one and only Thelma Ritter too. I go back and forth on Anne Baxter, but the last time I saw the movie I thought she was excellent. But yes, Miss Davis dominates whenever she's on screen. And rightly.

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Mileage does vary. Maybe Gary Merrill and Hugh Marlowe are less than scintillating in All About Eve, but they're competent enough.  I enjoy Gregory Ratoff, and just love Celeste Holm and the one and only Thelma Ritter too. I go back and forth on Anne Baxter, but the last time I saw the movie I thought she was excellent. But yes, Miss Davis dominates whenever she's on screen. And rightly.

I wasn't at all impressed with Anne Baxter at the start of the film; I thought she came off as wooden and not young enough to be called a "kid" (though I know that said more about Margo's fear of aging than anything else.)  Towards the end of it, though, I started to come around and I realized why she was cast in the role.  She was much more interesting when her "perfect" facade started to crack.

 

Still not anywhere near as interesting as Ms. Davis, though. :)

 

[Athena]

Still Netflixin' my way through all their classic movies.  Last night, I watched All About Eve for the first time, and I was...kind of bored?  It's not that I didn't enjoy the movie at all, but I thought it lagged any time Bette Davis wasn't onscreen; she was luminous while everyone else was just sort of there.  George Sanders** was all right, though, and I liked seeing Marilyn Monroe in a bit part.  She must have had some work done before becoming a big star, because she looked different somehow, especially around the chin.

 

**Speaking of George Sanders, his character is creepy as all get out, and a rapist.  No matter how despicable Eve was, she didn't deserve to have some slimeball blackmail her into sleeping with him, but I know I'm viewing this with 21st century eyes.  I'm sure audiences in 1950 felt differently.

 

I referenced All About Eve the other day I was talking to male colleague about the glass ceiling for professional women. He had never heard of this movie which I found surprising. I do think Davis steals all her scenes. She's one of the reasons I watched the movie in the first place. Not that everyone else was bad, but Davis was just so good and had such a strong screen charisma her whole career.

 

I do think the movie is interesting because of gender roles and relations. George Sanders is very creepy in that role. Ugh.

[Rinaldo]

It's a funny thing... when I first saw the movie I expected it to be a total vehicle for Davis, and found it to be much more Anne Baxter's picture -- she had more screen time and somehow made more of an impression on me. Seeing it again years later, I wondered why I'd ever thought that.

 

Incidentally, the stage musical adapted from it, Applause, is not recommended. It was set in its own time, 1970, though Strouse and Adams (the Bye Bye Birdie people) really weren't at home in the current new styles. And despite being designed as a vehicle for Lauren Bacall, it somehow loses the focus on her character. She's given a wisecracking gay dresser for a sidekick, which though it seems a tired notion now, deserves a nod as the first definitely (as opposed to "coded") gay character in musical theater. The whole thing hasn't weathered the years well, though.

[ennui]

Just because movies couldn't express things overtly didn't mean audiences at the time didn't know what was up.

I think actors were better then. I watched Now, Voyager, and Bette Davis and Paul Henried make smoking a cigarette look like sex. We didn't need to see them take off their clothes.

I like George Sanders in All About Eve. He was the only one not fooled. I didn't really think of it as blackmail; Eve used him, too. And it's not like she was a nice girl. Eve's home town chased her out.

[3pwood]

I like George Sanders in All About Eve. He was the only one not fooled. I didn't really think of it as blackmail; Eve used him, too. And it's not like she was a nice girl. Eve's home town chased her out.

 

I love George Sanders in everything.  Addison deWitt was a cad who didn't pretend otherwise -- more honest than Eve, but they deserved each other.

[elle]

I like George Sanders in All About Eve. He was the only one not fooled. I didn't really think of it as blackmail; Eve used him, too. And it's not like she was a nice girl. Eve's home town chased her out.

I love George Sanders in everything.  Addison deWitt was a cad who didn't pretend otherwise -- more honest than Eve, but they deserved each other.

Agreed!

 

George Sanders is very creepy in that role. Ugh.

George Sanders specialized in creepy roles, he was the quintessential smooth talking, purring villain or "cad".  Think of many of his more famous roles: Jack Favell in Rebecca; De Bois-Guilbert in Ivanhoe, Miles Fairley in The Ghost and Mrs. Muir and of course the voice of Shere Khan in the Jungle Book.

 

For me, it is so much fun to see him as a "good guy" like ffiollet in Foreign Correspondent and his turns as The Saint and The Falcon (before he turned that one over to his brother.

[Julia]

I think the point of Addison De Witt was that Eve counted on everyone around her being too decent/trusting/stupid to stop her, and she forgot that bigger pools have meaner fish in them. She could have walked away. She chose not to.

I've always wondered if Addison knew what she was when he was raving about her fire and passion at the audition.

[ennui]

I think the point of Addison De Witt was that Eve counted on everyone around her being too decent/trusting/stupid to stop her, and she forgot that bigger pools have meaner fish in them. She could have walked away. She chose not to.

I've always wondered if Addison knew what she was when he was raving about her fire and passion at the audition.

Eve wasn't looking for people to stop her; she counted on people to help her. Addison helped her, but he knew what she was. That changes the table stakes.

[Athena]

George Sanders specialized in creepy roles, he was the quintessential smooth talking, purring villain or "cad".  Think of many of his more famous roles: Jack Favell in Rebecca; De Bois-Guilbert in Ivanhoe, Miles Fairley in The Ghost and Mrs. Muir and of course the voice of Shere Khan in the Jungle Book.

 

Yes, he did creepy so well. He was just so particularly oleaginous in All About Eve. I like that he owned up to being a cad, but he was still creepy though. Heh.

 

I adored The Ghost and Mrs Muir. I haven't seen a lot of Rex Harrison films, but I really liked him in that.

[Rinaldo]

George Sanders is also very enjoyable as a different sort of character in Call Me Madam, playing initial adversary / eventual love interest to Ethel Merman. It gave him a rare opportunity to display his excellent singing voice, too.

[Charlie Baker]

Clearly we're not in 31 Days of Oscar anymore.  Today: Macabre, The Brain that Wouldn't Die, Wild Guitar, Dementia 13.  Can't take the time to watch, but was amused.

[Milburn Stone]

Re Mr. Roberts--correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going totally from memory here--but isn't Ford's very first reveal of Fonda's title character identical to his very first reveal of Fonda's title character in Young Mr. Lincoln? In both cases, our introduction to the character finds him with legs outstretched, just sort of idly whittling or something.

[monakane]

Agreed!

 

 

 

George Sanders specialized in creepy roles, he was the quintessential smooth talking, purring villain or "cad".  Think of many of his more famous roles: Jack Favell in Rebecca; De Bois-Guilbert in Ivanhoe, Miles Fairley in The Ghost and Mrs. Muir and of course the voice of Shere Khan in the Jungle Book.

 

For me, it is so much fun to see him as a "good guy" like ffiollet in Foreign Correspondent and his turns as The Saint and The Falcon (before he turned that one over to his brother.

 

My favorite role of his is in Ivanhoe.   The character was a bastard but he could feel love for Liz Taylor's character.  It made him a more complex villain than you would normally see in movies at that time.  So sad that George Sanders committed suicide.  

 

I love the Ghost and Mrs. Muir.  I watch it whenever it's on.

[Rinaldo]

I love the Ghost and Mrs. Muir.  I watch it whenever it's on.

I need to see that. (Another of the major holes in my movie viewing.) Gay though I am, I find her just hypnotically beautiful and riveting -- not just visually (though certainly that), but in something she radiates onscreen -- in Laura of course, and as late as The Mating Season. Awareness of the tragedies in her personal life just enhances the poignancy of her onscreen appearances for me (and usually I'm irritated by fans who get stars' offscreen life muddled with their onscreen work, but she's the exception for me in this respect too).

[Charlie Baker]

Another prime George Sanders role was the Oscar Wilde representative in Picture of Dorian Gray. 

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir is a lovely movie, with Rex Harrison in top form, along with Sanders and the gorgeous Ms. Tierney.

[monakane]

I need to see that. (Another of the major holes in my movie viewing.) Gay though I am, I find her just hypnotically beautiful and riveting -- not just visually (though certainly that), but in something she radiates onscreen -- in Laura of course, and as late as The Mating Season. Awareness of the tragedies in her personal life just enhances the poignancy of her onscreen appearances for me (and usually I'm irritated by fans who get stars' offscreen life muddled with their onscreen work, but she's the exception for me in this respect too).

 

Gene Tierney did have an other worldly quality to her.  I think you are right that her personal tragedies enhance her poignancy.  I hope you got to see Leave her to Heaven.  She was terrific in that.

[Julia]

I need to see that. (Another of the major holes in my movie viewing.) Gay though I am, I find her just hypnotically beautiful and riveting -- not just visually (though certainly that), but in something she radiates onscreen -- in Laura of course, and as late as The Mating Season. Awareness of the tragedies in her personal life just enhances the poignancy of her onscreen appearances for me (and usually I'm irritated by fans who get stars' offscreen life muddled with their onscreen work, but she's the exception for me in this respect too).

It worked beautifully for her in this movie. She really seemed to be drifting between worlds.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Julia

[Crisopera]

I can't tell you how much I love The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.  In general, I find Gene Tierney stunningly beautiful but a bit stone-faced (which works perfectly for Leave Her to Heaven).  But she is really lovely as Mrs. Muir.  She and Rex Harrison have real chemistry, and there's a scene towards the end  which completely destroys me every time.  Not just discreet sniffles, but full-on, heaving, whole-body sobs.

[monakane]

I can't tell you how much I love The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.  In general, I find Gene Tierney stunningly beautiful but a bit stone-faced (which works perfectly for Leave Her to Heaven).  But she is really lovely as Mrs. Muir.  She and Rex Harrison have real chemistry, and there's a scene towards the end  which completely destroys me every time.  Not just discreet sniffles, but full-on, heaving, whole-body sobs.

 

I cry like a baby every time I see the end of that movie and I've seen it at least 20 times.