Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

I was thinking more about Alice, and the gender swap is pretty much complete (eg. Henry is Emma/Snow, Lucy is Henry, Cinderella is Charming) if she is basically going to play Rumple in the flashbacks.  Give her "Wonderland" connections, she could give a "Make Small" potion to Cinderella to throw onto Lady Tremaine.  She could be trying to get Lady Tremaine or Drizella to enact the Curse, so she could be reunited with her family in The World Without Magic.  

[Rumsy4]

51 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Sounds like they made some super spicy tacos. ;)

Or pancakes with maple syrup. ;-) 

27 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was thinking more about Alice, and the gender swap is pretty much complete (eg. Henry is Emma/Snow, Lucy is Henry, Cinderella is Charming) if she is basically going to play Rumple in the flashbacks.  Give her "Wonderland" connections, she could give a "Make Small" potion to Cinderella to throw onto Lady Tremaine.  She could be trying to get Lady Tremaine or Drizella to enact the Curse, so she could be reunited with her family in The World Without Magic.  

I think she might turn out to be that Realm's version of Rumple/Dark One. Or alt!Rumple's daughter. She's the only character that sounds remotely interesting/not infuriating about this season.

[KingOfHearts]

I love how Regina's cursed identity moniker derives from Veronica, the name of a legendary saint. Cue all the St. Woegina jokes. It also means "true image".

[Camera One]

From THR interview with A&E:

Quote

Was this always your plan?

Kitsis: We were coming from Lost and Lost was six years and that just felt really perfect. It felt like that was the plan because six felt like what a show ran.

Horowitz: It's not like we ever put a number on it.

Kitsis: We always planned for six years. You look at Marvel and these reboots we were like, "Why can't fairy tales be rebooted? Why can't we be the new Wonderful World of Disney?" Because I love these stories. If we do one version of Cinderella, why can't we do another one seven years later?

Lost had 6 so we could too!  But we never put a number on it!  But we always planned for 6 years!  Can anyone interpret what they actually mean?

Quote

Kitsis: Yes! The show is about the thing we love best about the world: there is unity if we find it and you have to work at it. Once is a show for everyone. And you're right, I am so bombarded by a day-to-day news cycle that is changing and the polarization of the country. You just want a place where everyone says at the end of the day, 'Don't we all want the same things?' And that is to be happy and maybe there's a better way to get to it.

Horowitz: On a very basic level, the show says if the Evil Queen — the worst person in all of literature and storytelling — can find hope and happiness and goodness in her, and heal her heart, maybe everyone can. It's political without being political. We just want to find that in the world.

Oh boy, how do you even start with this?  If you're angry at the injustice of the world, this show might just make you even angrier.

[Camera One]

Quote

Horowitz: The Indiana Jones model is very apt. In the first movie he's with Marian, going after the ark. And then you drop him in with Short Round and then he's with his dad. If you think of those as seasons of television, you can see multiple stories with the same character. And then wonder where the next adventure is going to take you. That's the fun for us as writers is each season: seeing where the adventure going to take us.

How is that example apt?  It would be like if there was an Indiana Jones movie and Indiana Jones is gone.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How is that example apt?  It would be like if there was an Indiana Jones movie and Indiana Jones is gone.

Well, the first movie is really good (like season 1) and then someone rips a heart out of someone's chest and traumatizes my childhood in the second movie  (like Snow's dark heart) and then there is a good adventure with father and child (like the time Charming and Emma bonded on screen while Snow was on maternity leave around the time of Frozen) and then there is the freaking space alien requel that tries to hand over the franchise to his motorcycle riding progeny and was so bad that South Park dedicated an episode to it (S7?).

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How is that example apt?  It would be like if there was an Indiana Jones movie and Indiana Jones is gone.

Maybe they're talking about Henry and the potential future? But in a sense it's apt, in that one of the frustrations with the Indiana Jones movies and a lot of the Bond films is that while the main character and maybe some secondary characters continue from movie to movie, there's usually some very important relationship and/or character development in each film that's completely dropped like it never happened in subsequent films. So, like with Once, they can devote an entire arc to something, and the character who was very important to that arc will then just vanish and all the continuing characters will be reset, with most of their experiences in the arc forgotten. This is the show that devoted an arc to two characters forced into being Dark Ones and then another arc to a character being killed, going through all kinds of experiences in the Underworld, and then being brought back to life by Zeus -- and there wasn't a single mention of any of this in the following season. So, yeah, that's kind of like the Indiana Jones movies, where the order in which they take place doesn't really matter because nothing that happens in any one film will have any bearing whatsoever on any of the other films.

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We never try to do black and white because the world isn't black and white. A villain can be a hero and a hero can be a villain.

Except for the whole arc about how villains are villains and the world is totally unfair to them because they're not allowed to have happy endings unless you rewrite the rules of the universe. Except not, but no one ever actually acknowledges that their previous thesis upon which they based all their actions was totally wrong.

Quote

On a very basic level, the show says if the Evil Queen — the worst person in all of literature and storytelling — can find hope and happiness and goodness in her, and heal her heart, maybe everyone can.

And meanwhile, people who weren't nearly as bad get far worse punishments and fates, so, no, not everyone can. Like Milah or Auntie Em, who got obliterated in the afterlife, or Ingrid, who saw the error of her ways but still had to die.

Quote

Six years into a show you're encumbered, for better or for worse, by everything that has come before — from wardrobe choices to story choices. Finding this way to rejigger the show has freed everyone from wardrobe to the actors to the writers to do the same show but do it a little differently.

It's hard to be too encumbered by stuff you never bother to develop, and it is possible to change. Most people do, especially as they go through extreme events. Yeah, they are kind of stuck by what they show in the past (and even there, they love them some retcons), but they had plenty of opportunity to change in the present. The characters are no longer their cursed selves and could have explored what they really wanted to do. They could have questioned those personas and adapted their wardrobes. Hook could have worn something other than black leather as his character changed. He was brought back from the dead, which gave them all kinds of opportunities to do things differently -- he could have been resurrected with his hand restored and could have treated it like a fresh start, changing the way he dressed and what he did with his life. As Regina changed, she could have decided it was wrong to stay in a position she essentially stole, so she could have stepped down or run for mayor in a real, fair election. She could have gone casual instead of wearing the pantsuits.

[Camera One]

LOL, the Indiana Jones parallels are apt in all the ways that Adam didn't mean.  Sorry, I should have broken those quotes apart and posted some of them in the All-Seasons Thread, for the stuff that didn't directly reference spoilers.

Quote

So what's a potential season eight? Do Andrew J. West and Dania Ramirez come back or is it a new location again?

Horowitz: Should we be lucky enough to continue on to season eight and beyond, yes, Andrew and Dania, their story — if they survive the season! [laughing] — it would continue on as well. And as would any of our legacy characters.

Do they actually have a plan for those two if this gets a Season 8?  Somehow, I doubt it.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

We never try to do black and white because the world isn't black and white.

Right. But we get repeatedly told by Snow and Charming that retaliating against Regina would make them as bad as she, most recently from Snow to the Count of Monte Cristo in what sounded like an intentionally sappy voice. Oh, and apparently some people are more important than others, so according to Henry Sr. crushing Snow's heart would make Regina "dark forever" but crushing a random guard's heart doesn't.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[KingOfHearts]

Judging by both sneak peeks, the writing seems stale even by A&E standards. S6 was stagnant, S7 just seems dead. I'm not talking about the major plot elements or the characters themselves necessarily, but just the dialogue and scene structure. Henry reading the note aloud to himself was awkward. Alice jumping on a dumpster and walking away was supposed to be weird/intriguing, but it too felt unintuitive. Roni made me cringe.

Edited October 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Guest]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Judging by both sneak peeks, the writing seems stale even by A&E standards. S6 was stagnant, S7 just seems dead. I'm not talking about the major plot elements or the characters themselves necessarily, but just the dialogue and scene structure. Henry reading the note aloud to himself was awkward. Alice jumping on a dumpster and walking away was supposed to be weird/intriguing, but it too felt unintuitive. Roni made me cringe.

That and it was two minutes long and felt like an hour.  This is the first episode of a reboot.  How can they have so little story that they didn't edit that down.

The sneak had the feeling of the handful of episodes that were so boring that I turned them off and never finished because they were so slow that it felt like time was moving backward.

Even something as simple as Henry showing up at the bar for the first timing while it was open and Romi was busy would have helped. 

I wonder if this is a sign of the realities of the budget.  Will they be set in an eerily devoid of any people Seattle?.  No extras, etc.

Edited October 3, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Shanna Marie]

36 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I wonder if this is a sign of the realities of the budget.  Will they be set in an eerily devoid of any people Seattle?.  No extras, etc.

That's the way Storybrooke has been for years. It may just end up being more glaring in a big city. I don't know if it's budget or if it's the producers' complete lack of caring about anyone other than the main characters.

[Camera One]

Quote

Alice jumping on a dumpster and walking away was supposed to be weird/intriguing

I was actually intrigued when I saw that in the promo, so I was surprised that was actually all there was.  Alice doesn't actually say anything to Henry and only smirks.  Shiver me timbers.  You'd think an episode scene would have more substance than clips in a promo.

What was the point of the troll under the bridge?  Isn't it 2017?  You don't need a landmark to find a place on Google Maps.  

Roni had this look she usually reserves for The Evil Queen when she turned around and smile.  I agree the line "I hope so" about the sign was so lame for a "big" moment.  

So who stole Henry's laptop?  Lucy?  Are we supposed to care?  

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's the way Storybrooke has been for years. It may just end up being more glaring in a big city. I don't know if it's budget or if it's the producers' complete lack of caring about anyone other than the main characters.

Maybe it goes more towards their complete lack of interest in world building vs only caring about main characters. 

I'm not expecting them to create a bar full of recognizable patrons from fairy tales.  I'm not naïve.  But a lot of these scenes would be less awkward and obviously slow if there was something visually going on.  Like other traffic honking when he pauses to look at the troll. Someone else to exchange a that was weird look when Alice bizarrely hangs out on a roof until Henry shows up, jumps to a dumpster and walks away just to cover up that it was the laziest way to do whatever it was they were doing.   Build anticipation to Henry and Regina's first meeting by having her distractedly dealing with staff or patrons. 

They could get away with this stuff in Storybrooke.  I doubt that its occurred to them that this is going to be much more glaring and a problem in "Seattle"

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

So who stole Henry's laptop?  Lucy?  Are we supposed to care?  

I don't think it can be Lucy, considering he/she asked to meet Henry at a bar.

Quote

Alice doesn't actually say anything to Henry and only smirks.  Shiver me timbers.  You'd think an episode scene would have more substance than clips in a promo.

For other writers, things like that are merely icing on the cake. They're not the main focus. Just subtle neat details that add to a scene's tone or atmosphere. But for A&E, the bonus actually is the main attraction. Alice jumping on a dumpster is good, but was that the only "clever idea" that could muster for her entrance? Even Henry just reacts like, "yeah, ok" and moves on. Yes, she's weird, but there's a lot of weird people lurking the alleys of a city. She doesn't give off the, "something is not right about this neighborhood" vibe we got in S1 when Emma first came to Storybrooke. These writers royally suck at subtly. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Cringeworthy and embarrassing doesn't begin to cover the second sneak peek. I don't think the writing has gotten worse than season 6 (terrible though it was). It's likely that without the familiar settings and characters, my tolerance level for bad writing has gone way down. And Alice was peculiar, and not in a good way. I take back what I said before about her character seeming interesting. And why does Henry need to look at the postit to double check he's at Roni's, and then ask the bartender again? He got dumber, if that's possible. Must be all those classes he missed. 

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And why does Henry need to look at the postit to double check he's at Roni's, and then ask the bartender again? He got dumber, if that's possible.

I was just thinking that. Why would he need to double check something as simple as "Roni's"? Especially when the directions were so specific. And then to have to ask when there was a literal neon sign over the door.

It does seem like the bar is empty because it's during the day, but then the streets should be busier during the day, with cars on the road. Alice kind of reminded me of Cat in season one of Gotham -- at least, that seemed to be what they were going for, the semi-feral wild child prowling the streets, watching from perches above, jumping and running.

I'll judge the writing when I see the sequence in context. That's when we'll know the purpose of these moments and whether they could/should have been done better. But I do think that, given "go to Roni's, turn left at the troll," if Henry had to double check the note when seeing a neon sign and then ask about it, either there's bad writing or Henry is Too Stupid to Live, and what's up with his reaction to the troll? Doesn't he live in this neighborhood? Wouldn't he have seen the troll before or at least known about it?

[Camera One]

"I'm Roni.  What can I getcha?"  That response felt really weird.  It doesn't seem like the bar is open.  Clearly, this guy who came in is specifically looking for this establishment. Wouldn't "How can I help you?" be more appropriate?  

He turns left at the troll (as per instructions) but then he actually turns two other times to get to Roni's.  Huh?  

I've said this before in other hiatuses, but all they need to do is to post a scene of the show everyday, and it should keep us "entertained" 365 days a year.

[Guest]

I just realized that the police station is on the same block as Roni's .  Its going to be a small, small world.  I'm no longer expecting any difference in the show by playing at selecting a location larger than Storybrooke. 

I wonder if they'll create a way to close off the neighborhood or just pretend that when evil runs amok no one would actually consider leaving.

I'm half expecting some kind mesmerism that stops people from coming or going to and from Hyperion Heights while not realizing its weird.

[Camera One]

I wonder if the Troll is where the "town line" is.

That "Police" sign looks temporary as hell.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm half expecting some kind mesmerism that stops people from coming or going to and from Hyperion Heights while not realizing its weird.

Except that Lady Tremaine's supposed to be trying to force fairytale people to move out so they won't meet.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

That "Police" sign looks temporary as hell.  

I'm glad I wasn't the only person who noticed that. The temporary stuff looks eerily like Storybrooke, and not in a continuity-esque way.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Except that Lady Tremaine's supposed to be trying to force fairytale people to move out so they won't meet.

Given she is evil maybe this is a variation of leaving turns them into trees.

So next theory is leaving turns them into statues of their uncursed selves and the troll is an actual troll.

Anyone seen an Emma statue around?

Final scene is Hook kissing a statue that becomes flesh and grips him. TLK.  End show.

Edited October 4, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Shanna Marie]

One positive thing: I'd said before from still photos or footage of the actor as himself that I wasn't really seeing any "Henry" there, but there was something about the way he walked and held his head in that clip that struck me as very much like Henry's movement and body language, so kudos if he's been doing his homework. I did feel like he must be Henry (well, that and the fact that he's apparently dumber than a box of hair). But I think that just shows how badly cast Neal was because even adult Henry looks nothing like his father. In that little video with the new guy and Colin, they looked more like they were related to each other than adult Henry looks like Neal.

[Camera One]

I don't feel the Henry-ness yet, but he does look incredibly awkward in the photo shoots.

[Kktjones]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

Anyone seen an Emma statue around?

There was a lot of speculation the first time they built the troll statue that the car was Emma frozen in her bug :). I think that theory was abandoned with they said 7x02 would provide closure to Emma's story and that she wouldn't return for future eps.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

There was a lot of speculation the first time they built the troll statue that the car was Emma frozen in her bug :). I think that theory was abandoned with they said 7x02 would provide closure to Emma's story and that she wouldn't return for future eps.

Interesting that the sneak downplays the bug.  Its in shadow.  The camera never focuses on it.  I didn't even notice it one the first couple viewings. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Question: On Once Upon a Time, will we see Cinderella’s other evil stepsister, Anastasia? — Rebecca
Ausiello: Yes — at least in flashbacks, seeing as Episode 9 of the “reset’ season (premiering Friday at 8/7c) will feature a tweenage Anastasia. Interestingly, this younger Anastasia, regardless of how she turns out, is described as “a happy and selfless” lass who “loves her sister andstep-sister alike.”

*cough* Helga *cough*

Anastasia is going to be fish food.

[daxx]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

*cough* Helga *cough*

Anastasia is going to be fish food.

Yeah, Hook probably killed her on one of his murder trips from Neverland...sigh.

[Shanna Marie]

8 minutes ago, daxx said:

Yeah, Hook probably killed her on one of his murder trips from Neverland...sigh.

Well, they have to come up with some excuse for piratey flashbacks to contrast with modern-day cop Rogers. If he's a good cop, then we'll get to see lots of him being a really evil pirate. No character's long-lost relative will be safe. And since he could have traveled to a variety of worlds from Neverland, he could have made it to those other worlds.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

20 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

either there's bad writing or Henry is Too Stupid to Live, 

Well, this is the guy who had to forcefully pat around an empty drawer for a laptop that is obviously not there at first glance (did he think it got stuck in the back of the small drawer? Or was he thinking the drawer was like Hermione's magic bag?) before he picked up the Post-It note which he didn't put there and was staring him in the face the whole time!

[Camera One]

Quote

Question: On Once Upon a Time, will we see Cinderella’s other evil stepsister, Anastasia? — Rebecca
Ausiello: Yes — at least in flashbacks, seeing as Episode 9 of the “reset’ season (premiering Friday at 8/7c) will feature a tweenage Anastasia. Interestingly, this younger Anastasia, regardless of how she turns out, is described as “a happy and selfless” lass who “loves her sister andstep-sister alike.”

These guys are nothing if not predictable... I will go with my prediction from above.

On 10/1/2017 at 1:21 PM, Camera One said:

The other stepsister was the nicest person one could ever ask for, but Murderella set a trap for Drizella and accidentally killed The Super Nice One.  That is why Murderella is such a complex character wracked with guilt so she built WALLS around her to cope.  

This will be excuse for Lady Tremaine and Drizella to treat Cinderella so badly since they're soooooooo complex.

Interview with actress who plays Tiana.

Quote

Interviewer: Had you watched the show before you were cast or watch any of it since then?
Cox: Yeah, I definitely went back and watched. I had seen bits and pieces.

LOL. That basically means no, right?

Quote

Interviewer: How similar is this to the actual Princess and the Frog tale?
Cox: When I first auditioned, I asked that same question, and they said that they would like to meld The Princess and the Frog from Disney’s Princess and the Frog with the real Princess and the Frog stories, so they’re taking bits and pieces of it all. I mean, her name is Tiana, and they have bits of the bayou and all of that in there, but then they’re also taking pieces from other portions of the actual fairy tale, the Princess and the Frog story.

That's encouraging, I guess.  They did do a good job with that with "Frozen" and "The Snow Queen".  I'll have to re-read the original "Princess and the Frog" to see if this is actually true.

Quote

Interviewer: Do you think new fans could just jump in now and watch?
Cox: If they wanted to, they could start here. There’s some things they’re going to miss, that they wouldn’t understand. I think what’s going to happen is if people did want to just jump in, they could jump in. They’ll start to see stuff and they’ll go, “Wait a second, I don’t understand that. Now I’ve got to go back and watch it,” and I think it’ll allow more people to go back and want to do that.

At least she's being honest about this versus Eddy's claim anyone could start in Season 7.   Or they'll go "Wait a minute, I don't understand that", and then go "To hell with it," and never tune in again.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Well, they have to come up with some excuse for piratey flashbacks to contrast with modern-day cop Rogers. If he's a good cop, then we'll get to see lots of him being a really evil pirate. No character's long-lost relative will be safe. And since he could have traveled to a variety of worlds from Neverland, he could have made it to those other worlds.

 

8 hours ago, daxx said:

Yeah, Hook probably killed her on one of his murder trips from Neverland...sigh.

I don't think so. These flashbacks with Anastasia would have happened post-Season Six.

[Camera One]

Definitely.  Cinderella killed Anastasia by revealing a secret.  Sort of like how in Season 6, that weak Ashley Cinders gave up Corinder's whereabouts so easily, and thereby ruined her life, so she needed to apologize to her and experience being impaled.

I had been hoping that Anastasia would turn out to be Ana from the "Wonderland" spinoff.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Definitely.  Cinderella killed Anastasia by revealing a secret.  Sort of like how in Season 6, that weak Ashley Cinders gave up Corinder's whereabouts so easily, and thereby ruined her life, so she needed to apologize to her and experience being impaled.

I had been hoping that Anastasia would turn out to be Ana from the "Wonderland" spinoff.

Clorinda.

That would have been nice, but since we've seen Ana's mother it would only be possible if Gabrielle Anwar is a recasting. Ana could still be the stepsister of yet another Cinderella. Except she's from the same Enchanted Forest as Robin Hood and therefore the same one as Ella/Ashley.

[KAOS Agent]

I get that the writers are trying for the Snow/Emma dynamic of S1 with Henry/Regina in S7, but it just doesn't work for me. Emma never had a mother. She grew up in a series of foster homes/group homes where she lacked food and was abused/bullied by adults or other fosters. She felt unlovable for 28 years. This was not a cursed persona. This was real life. Bonding with her mother without knowing it was a wonderful thing to see, even as it had a layer of sadness underneath it. Once the curse broke, everything wasn't going to be alright. It meant something that Emma was opening up to her mother and building a friendship with her. They were strangers, not because a curse gave them new personalities/memories, but because the curse had torn them apart for the entirety of Emma's life.

Henry left home as a young adult to see the world like most kids eventually do when they grow up. A few years later he asks for help from his parents, which means he's seen them as an adult. Later, he runs into his mother when both are cursed to not know each other. This scenario is not meaningful or particularly sad for me (and it's not because it's Regina, I'd say this if we were talking Henry/Emma).  Children grow up and move away. They get their own lives. Adult!Henry and Regina bonding means little because they actually do know each other and will be interacting as most people do in parent/adult child relationships. They aren't really missing anything. This season will probably cover a short period of time and then they'll get their memories back. Happy reunion ensues. There's no poignancy in this. It seems like the show is desperately trying to make it meaningful and sad, but I have little emotional reaction at all to it. 

I wonder if that's some of why reviewers were feeling disconnected from this new story. The writers are trying to recreate the stories that made S1 interesting and failing to understand that so much of it revolved around the emotions caused by the real loss that so many of the characters had experienced due to the curse. A curse that lasted for 28 years. The new story may be entertaining, but it's failing to engage on an emotional level.

[Shanna Marie]

If that clip is from early in the episode and is meant to establish that world, I think they kind of failed. I believe if I were in charge, that's when I'd have used a chunk of my budget to fill the street with extras, to make it seem like a real city, and I'd have hidden the major characters in plain sight among all those extras, not zooming in on them or focusing on them in a way that would draw attention, but treating them the same as the extras, so sharp-eyed viewers might catch them and then everyone would want to take another look at that scene to see what they might see. So, since the police station is in the background, have Hook/Rogers hauling a perp out of the back of a squad car and taking him into the building, or else running out of the building, jumping into a squad car, and taking off with the siren going. Pass Rumple meeting with a source in a dark alley. Pass Murderella and Tiana and whoever else on the street, but blended in among a bunch of other people, so we don't yet know who's important (well, those who don't follow spoilers and promo material wouldn't). Then have Alice jump out at him, and then have him meet Roni. Of course, they may do something like this later in the episode.

11 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

19 hours ago, daxx said:

Yeah, Hook probably killed her on one of his murder trips from Neverland...sigh.

I don't think so. These flashbacks with Anastasia would have happened post-Season Six.

I may be hallucinating, but wasn't there a spoiler picture associated with the tease about Tiana's backstory as a warrior princess, in which we saw Tiana in warrior mode, possibly with Murderella, and Pirate Hook was there with them? Maybe their world has been in some kind of time bubble, and Henry did his rapid growing up elsewhere before going to that world.

As for the theory of what happened to the "good" stepsister, how's this: The good sister and the prince had met and fallen for each other and were seeing each other in secret, all in the time before Lady Tremaine went really evil and started enslaving Murderella. Murderella learned about their relationship and knew about Lady Tremaine's scheme for the evil stepsister to marry the prince, but she naively thought that letting Lady Tremaine know her other daughter already had something going on with the prince would help matters. After all, did it really matter which daughter married the prince, as long as one of them did? But Lady Tremaine wanted her favorite to get the prince and killed the other one. She blamed Murderella for ruining things, and that's when she enslaved her. Meanwhile, Murderella blamed the prince for the death of her good sister and her own enslavement, and she wants to foil Lady Tremaine's plans, and that's why she wants to kill the prince.

There, we've managed to get all the plot elements from season one worked in.

Or else the prince is the one who killed the other sister, and thus the murder plot for revenge.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I may be hallucinating, but wasn't there a spoiler picture associated with the tease about Tiana's backstory as a warrior princess, in which we saw Tiana in warrior mode, possibly with Murderella, and Pirate Hook was there with them? Maybe their world has been in some kind of time bubble, and Henry did his rapid growing up elsewhere before going to that world.

You mean this picture, which also has Henry and Regina in it?: http://images.spoilertv.com/once-upon-a-time/Season 7/First Look Photos/once-upon-a-time-season-7-tiana-2.jpg.php

[Shanna Marie]

Okay,  I wasn't hallucinating, but it wasn't past Hook. So I guess he somehow gets his pirate gear back in another world. Is there a pirate Gap, where you can buy standardized pirate clothes in every city?

[PixiePaws1]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Okay,  I wasn't hallucinating, but it wasn't past Hook. So I guess he somehow gets his pirate gear back in another world. Is there a pirate Gap, where you can buy standardized pirate clothes in every city?

There was a pic that Lana posted with Colin in his pirate red vest while she and Dania were in modern clothes..they were in a golf cart either to or from set..no idea what is going on with his costuming.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Is there a pirate Gap, where you can buy standardized pirate clothes in every city?

It's run by same company that owns The Tavern™, with franchises located across all the realms. Whether it's an alternate reality or a feudal village down the road, we've got the exact same familiar layout you're accustomed to!

Edited October 5, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But Lady Tremaine wanted her favorite to get the prince and killed the other one.

This will make it too hard for us to feel sorry for Lady Tremaine, if she killed her own daughter on purpose.  Perhaps Lady Tremaine tries to kill Cinderella but Anastasia dies by accident (Anastasia jumps in front of Cinderella to save her but gets hit).  Of course Lady Tremaine blames Cinders instead of herself, but this makes her still redeemable, since she lost a daughter all because of Cinders.  Cinders will realize that Lady Tremaine made her stronger and she will apologize for getting Anastasia killed.  Now it's even.

[Camera One]

Is everyone planning their party tomorrow night?  I'm serving macaRONI baked on cinders, of course.  When the guests arrive, I'll have my back to the door and turn around to say, "What can I getcha?"  

[Camera One]

Henry's "Really?" in the second Sneak Peak seemed to be an attempt to make him Emma-like.  I just remembered that he's supposed to be an Uber Driver yet he had never seen that troll statue and had to exclaim to himself?  

I don't think I'm going to try to pretend it's a nice show when I'm watching tomorrow night.  I'm going to see if their intentional parallels pan out.  Will Lucy match Original Recipe Young Henry?  Will Adult Henry match Emma in the present-day?  Will Adult Henry/Cinderella match Snowing in the flashback?  Will Lady Tremaine match Regina?  Will Alice rival Rumple in crazy maniac-ness? 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Camera One

[daxx]

I've seen so little actual excitement about the hiatus ending and I'm so meh myself. It's sad for what used to be my favorite show. I don't even know what to say for my favorite show now. I guess I don't have one?

[sharky]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Henry's "Really?" in the second Sneak Peak seemed to be an attempt to make him Emma-like.  I just remembered that he's supposed to be an Uber Driver yet he had never seen that troll statue and had to exclaim to himself?  

I thought it was more of an exasperated "Really? This girl is making me go on a scavenger hunt by telling me to turn at this statue and go down this road and find this Roni place?"

[Camera One]

It felt like weird timing to me, since his exasperation would have been voiced when he first saw the note.  Seeing the troll (for the first time even though he drives around this city) would have confirmed that the note was true but I don't think "really" was the right word to express that realization.

It's a really little thing but the lines that make you go "huh?" really interrupt the flow, even in the two sneak peeks.  I guess I'll see how they work within the context of the episode.

[Rumsy4]

33 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Seeing the troll (for the first time even though he drives around this city) would have confirmed that the note was true but I don't think "really" was the right word to express that realization.

I had the same reaction as you. It seemed as though Henry had never seen the troll statue before. 

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

It felt like weird timing to me, since his exasperation would have been voiced when he first saw the note.  Seeing the troll (for the first time even though he drives around this city) would have confirmed that the note was true but I don't think "really" was the right word to express that realization.

It's a really little thing but the lines that make you go "huh?" really interrupt the flow, even in the two sneak peeks.  I guess I'll see how they work within the context of the episode.

I think they were trying to call back to Emma's "seriously?" but Emma was in a new place and had never been exposed to any fairytale stuff. Henry must have known where the troll was to go there, and he's supposedly an "Uber" driver and has probably driven around the neighborhood, so why would he react like this is the first time he's been aware of the troll under the bridge?

[Free]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think they were trying to call back to Emma's "seriously?" but Emma was in a new place and had never been exposed to any fairytale stuff. Henry must have known where the troll was to go there, and he's supposedly an "Uber" driver and has probably driven around the neighborhood, so why would he react like this is the first time he's been aware of the troll under the bridge?

Exactly, it's a weird callback in context because Henry literally grew up in a cursed town that was stuck in time unlike Emma who grew up in the real world.