Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

A musical episode seems like it would be a 2-parter and they usually reserve 2-parters for finales. (It's also random enough to be a finale, since OUAT finales tend to never relate to the rest of the season.)

Maybe (cautiously optimistic for once), this is actually a good sign for Season 7. I don't see A&E ending their entire show with a series finale musical, but they would probably be okay ending Season 6 with a musical episode if Season 7 is approved. From a marketing standpoint, the musical episode will probably generate a lot of buzz, and let's face it, the show desperately needs it. If I were an ABC exec, I'd be pushing for a musical finale to create whatever buzz they can, keep reporters talking about the show for a few weeks into the summer, and then pimp out "The Final Season" at Comic-Con in July. It would probably be enough to give them one last mini boost in viewers come fall, and then at that point, it doesn't matter how terrible the ratings are because it's the final season.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

A musical episode seems like it would be a 2-parter and they usually reserve 2-parters for finales. (It's also random enough to be a finale, since OUAT finales tend to never relate to the rest of the season.)

Maybe (cautiously optimistic for once), this is actually a good sign for Season 7. I don't see A&E ending their entire show with a series finale musical, but they would probably be okay ending Season 6 with a musical episode if Season 7 is approved. From a marketing standpoint, the musical episode will probably generate a lot of buzz, and let's face it, the show desperately needs it. If I were an ABC exec, I'd be pushing for a musical finale to create whatever buzz they can, keep reporters talking about the show for a few weeks into the summer, and then pimp out "The Final Season" at Comic-Con in July. It would probably be enough to give them one last mini boost in viewers come fall, and then at that point, it doesn't matter how terrible the ratings are because it's the final season.

It only says somewhere in Spring, I don't even think they're doing the finale right now based on their past history with filming.

They mentioned that they might wrap things and plan for a possible reboot, hence why there was talk about Jen's contract.

It sounds more a random filler like they did in 5a and b.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Mari said:

Would they have original songs composed, or would they just use Disney songs?  Because it wouldn't shock me at all if the characters burst into songs from their respective cartoon musical.

Barring us suddenly hearing that they have been working in collaboration with someone from outside the show for a while already, I think it has to be Disney songs.

1 hour ago, Curio said:

A musical episode seems like it would be a 2-parter and they usually reserve 2-parters for finales. (It's also random enough to be a finale, since OUAT finales tend to never relate to the rest of the season.)

Maybe (cautiously optimistic for once), this is actually a good sign for Season 7. I don't see A&E ending their entire show with a series finale musical, but they would probably be okay ending Season 6 with a musical episode if Season 7 is approved. From a marketing standpoint, the musical episode will probably generate a lot of buzz, and let's face it, the show desperately needs it. If I were an ABC exec, I'd be pushing for a musical finale to create whatever buzz they can, keep reporters talking about the show for a few weeks into the summer, and then pimp out "The Final Season" at Comic-Con in July. It would probably be enough to give them one last mini boost in viewers come fall, and then at that point, it doesn't matter how terrible the ratings are because it's the final season.

I'm not sure if I think it is a good sign for season 7 or not; but I'm coming around to not thinking its a last minute effort to avoid cancellation.

Following the pattern of the last two seasons, it doesn't really make sense that the Wish realm is a mid season storyline.  As a concept, Wish realm fits in more with the CS time travel and Author AU pattern of the last two seasons.  So I would have expected them to save that for the series finale.  And I digress, but since season finales are more inclusive, it would have sucked less if they saved it for later because they wouldn't have killed Snowing and relegated Hook to "comic" relief cameo.

But, I do think they probably had this in mind from the time they decided what they were doing mid season.  Or I'm just in denial because a musical episode needs a lot of planning.

[Free]

1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

Barring us suddenly hearing that they have been working in collaboration with someone from outside the show for a while already, I think it has to be Disney songs.

I'm not sure if I think it is a good sign for season 7 or not; but I'm coming around to not thinking its a last minute effort to avoid cancellation.

Following the pattern of the last two seasons, it doesn't really make sense that the Wish realm is a mid season storyline.  As a concept, Wish realm fits in more with the CS time travel and Author AU pattern of the last two seasons.  So I would have expected them to save that for the series finale.  And I digress, but since season finales are more inclusive, it would have sucked less if they saved it for later because they wouldn't have killed Snowing and relegated Hook to "comic" relief cameo.

But, I do think they probably had this in mind from the time they decided what they were doing mid season.  Or I'm just in denial because a musical episode needs a lot of planning.

They had a long hiatus to think about it and it's only being announced recently so they probably had this in mind months ago during development, this sounds like the random filler episodes that we had in 5a and b.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Free

[Curio]

1 minute ago, Free said:

It only says somewhere in Spring, I don't even think they're doing the finale right now based on their past history with filming.

We're also running out of episodes before the finale to cram in a random filler. The article made it seem like the musical was something that's still in development, and since they've just started filming episode 17, that only leaves episodes 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 as possible musical episodes. Assuming 21 and 22 is a 2-parter, there's essentially four episodes left in the season that we don't know about. It sounds like they haven't finished writing the script for the musical episode yet, so we can most likely assume episodes 18 and 19 have already been written and are not musicals just based on the current shooting schedule. That leaves the penultimate episode and the 2-part finale as the most likely options for a musical. I could maybe see the penultimate episode being a musical filler right before the big finale, but OUAT also tends to wrap up their big arcs during the penultimate and then leave the finale as a random side adventure that has nothing to do with the rest of the season. If the pattern holds, I could see the whole Emma/Gideon/Black Fairy drama being wrapped up in episode 20, and then 21/22 would be the 2-part musical finale to send us off into Dungey's retooled Season 7.

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Barring us suddenly hearing that they have been working in collaboration with someone from outside the show for a while already, I think it has to be Disney songs.

I'd imagine they'd run into some copyright or WGA issues if they stole all the lyrics from Disney songs, even if ABC owns the show. I'm in the camp that it's going to be mostly all original lyrics, which takes a lot of planning, which again makes me believe this has to be either the penultimate episode or finale. 

Now that I think about it, maybe it will end up being the penultimate. Jane probably has a better handle on writing a musical than A&E, and since A&E always write the finale, they might give the job to her.

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

If the writers can come up with some awesome lyrics and give Charming and Hook an "Agony" type of duet, then great.

If only!!

[ParadoxLost]

8 minutes ago, Curio said:

Now that I think about it, maybe it will end up being the penultimate. Jane probably has a better handle on writing a musical than A&E, and since A&E always write the finale, they might give the job to her.

I don't know.  I was hunting for an article that they did years ago about a musical episode.  I didn't find it, but I did find a con clip where Lee Arenberg (Grumpy) says "Eddie Kitsis is really musical.  He always writes with certain songs in mind. I'm a Lou Reed song or something" in response to what their song would be in a musical episode.

So Kitsis may think that this is in his wheelhouse.

I meanwhile am praying that they picked up some Galavant talent on contract and have been working this for a long time.

[Shanna Marie]

What the musical episode sounds like to me is them hearing praise and buzz for other shows doing musical episodes and seeing La La Land getting praise, and their thin skin and inferiority complex kicks in, so they suddenly have to do a musical episode.

[Curio]

20 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I didn't find it, but I did find a con clip where Lee Arenberg (Grumpy) says "Eddie Kitsis is really musical.  He always writes with certain songs in mind. I'm a Lou Reed song or something" in response to what their song would be in a musical episode.

There's liking 80s music, and then there's having the talent to write decent lyrics. Who knows, maybe A&E are better lyricists than I give them credit for. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised.

It's too bad Charlie Day can't be a music consultant on this show. (The video isn't OUAT related, but it does show a little of the process that goes into making a musical episode.)

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, Curio said:

It's too bad Charlie Day can't be a music consultant on this show. (The video isn't OUAT related, but it does show a little of the process that goes into making a musical episode.)

I know I shouldn't use Buffy as a bench mark,  But I'm not overly optimistic because they spent 6 months writing the music and filmed in between four episodes because they needed the extra time. 

I hope they just wanted to keep this a surprise and are deeper into the episode than the TV line article implies.

But I'm going to lean towards this being a musical episode, with a couple spell driven songs; but not really a musical extravaganza with more singing than talking, original songs, and choreography.

[KAOS Agent]

I would have been excited about a musical episode a couple of years ago. Now I tend to think it will be a mess. These writers are creatively bankrupt. They've got nothing. Now let's take that lack of creativity and make it harder by requiring them to fit a plot of some type into lyrics. Do they need to rhyme? I have zero confidence in this. Their prose is already cringeworthy, but the actors can usually make it work. That's a lot harder to do in song.

The actors' confidence, ability and/or willingness to sing is something that needs to be taken into account. Alyson Hannigan flat out said she wouldn't do solo work on the Buffy musical and Joss Whedon still managed to work her character in in important ways because Willow's role in a lot of what was going on was basically the main thrust of the story at that point. Could the Once writers do this if Robert Carlyle did the same? 

Please let this be only a few songs, preferably sung by Jasmine in a suddenly musical Agrabah.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

We're also running out of episodes before the finale to cram in a random filler. The article made it seem like the musical was something that's still in development, and since they've just started filming episode 17, that only leaves episodes 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 as possible musical episodes. Assuming 21 and 22 is a 2-parter, there's essentially four episodes left in the season that we don't know about. It sounds like they haven't finished writing the script for the musical episode yet, so we can most likely assume episodes 18 and 19 have already been written and are not musicals just based on the current shooting schedule. That leaves the penultimate episode and the 2-part finale as the most likely options for a musical. I could maybe see the penultimate episode being a musical filler right before the big finale, but OUAT also tends to wrap up their big arcs during the penultimate and then leave the finale as a random side adventure that has nothing to do with the rest of the season. If the pattern holds, I could see the whole Emma/Gideon/Black Fairy drama being wrapped up in episode 20, and then 21/22 would be the 2-part musical finale to send us off into Dungey's retooled Season 7.

I'd imagine they'd run into some copyright or WGA issues if they stole all the lyrics from Disney songs, even if ABC owns the show. I'm in the camp that it's going to be mostly all original lyrics, which takes a lot of planning, which again makes me believe this has to be either the penultimate episode or finale. 

Now that I think about it, maybe it will end up being the penultimate. Jane probably has a better handle on writing a musical than A&E, and since A&E always write the finale, they might give the job to her.

This was most likely discussed awhile ago we only got the announcement recently.

The source only mentions Spring and it doesn't mention the 2 part finale, if it was a big finale event, it would've mentioned just that as that would be a selling point in the spoilers and May sweeps  shows usually hypes those up.

[Curio]

Quote

Now let's take that lack of creativity and make it harder by requiring them to fit a plot of some type into lyrics. Do they need to rhyme? I have zero confidence in this. Their prose is already cringeworthy, but the actors can usually make it work. That's a lot harder to do in song.

From the people who brought you "When the Stars in the Sky Align with the Stars in the Hat" comes the smashing new musical called "Snuff Out the Light!"

But yes, generally, songs have to rhyme. Which means the writers really need to put a lot more effort into not only writing lyrics that match the plot of the episode, but they probably also needed to be working with Mark Isham over the winter break to make sure the melodies matched their lyrics. Maybe "musical episode" is just code for "we came up with a 5 minute segment that just happens to be musical and it's basically just Hook singing a sea shanty."

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

The actors' confidence, ability and/or willingness to sing is something that needs to be taken into account.

I think most of the main actors will totally be on board (well, at least Colin, Josh, Jen, Ginny, and probably Bex), but I have no idea about the others.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Curio

[Sarcastica]

9 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Guess which show has caught the musical bug that's been going around?

Oh no. I am honestly terrified.

This show is sooooooo getting canceled. 

[Souris]

I think it's probably going to be a short stint in a dream like was speculated above.

[retrograde]

[RadioGirl27]

While I think it's going to be terrible and embarrassing, this is a show about magic and fairytales, so it's easier to make it work, plot wise, than Supergirl. So I don't really understand this jumping the shark talk. This is Once, not The Sopranos. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

comes the smashing new musical called "Snuff Out the Light!"

Fun fact: "Snuff Out the Light!" was a song from the Emperor's New Groove, but got removed from the final film. It was meant to be sung by Eartha Kitt as the main villain. Now I want Nimue to sing it. 

Quote

While I think it's going to be terrible and embarrassing, this is a show about magic and fairytales, so it's easier to make it work, plot wise, than Supergirl. So I don't really understand this jumping the shark talk. This is Once, not The Sopranos. 

This is the same show where dwarves hatch out of eggs and Cruella DeVil is in the drive-thru at Mr. Cluck's Chicken. This isn't the first time something has been played for laughs, either. (Lest we forget the magnum opus, Shattered Sight.)

Edited January 23, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

I think it's probably going to be a short stint in a dream like was speculated above.

I think this is the most likely possibility. 

[Hookian]

A musical episode is not an indication of the show ending. It's just an indication that they're nearing the end. Granted this could be because they heard Supergirl/Flash is doing a musical episode and they're like why the heck not?

[kitticup]

1 hour ago, RadioGirl27 said:

While I think it's going to be terrible and embarrassing, this is a show about magic and fairytales, so it's easier to make it work, plot wise, than Supergirl. So I don't really understand this jumping the shark talk. This is Once, not The Sopranos. 

just in case you don't  know what jumping the shark means the moment that signals the end of a series because it is so bad an d writers are resorting to nonsensical ratings ploy.  It comes from a long running show called Happy Days.  One of the main characters was Arthur Fonzerelli (spelling might be off), aka the Fonz.  To get ratings the writers pulled a ratings stunt by having the Fonz jump over a shark.  It did not bring back viewers.

[Serena]

11 hours ago, Mari said:

Would they have original songs composed, or would they just use Disney songs?  Because it wouldn't shock me at all if the characters burst into songs from their respective cartoon musical.

It would be cool if the Disney characters all sing songs from their original cartoon, while Emma is the one who gets a new song.

[YaddaYadda]

They haven't started filming 6x17 yet. It should probably start towards Wednesday or Thursday.

And I loathe the idea of a musical. 

[Free]

5 hours ago, kitticup said:

just in case you don't  know what jumping the shark means the moment that signals the end of a series because it is so bad an d writers are resorting to nonsensical ratings ploy.  It comes from a long running show called Happy Days.  One of the main characters was Arthur Fonzerelli (spelling might be off), aka the Fonz.  To get ratings the writers pulled a ratings stunt by having the Fonz jump over a shark.  It did not bring back viewers.

Imo, that happened a while ago and this is just the result of that.

[Hookian]

Sounds like there may be a screening next Tuesday of episode 11. Adam and Eddy are gonna be at a panel w/ Colin and JMO.

They may just screen episode 10, because there should be a press screening happening soon to tease 6B.

Interesting line up. I go back to JMO and Colin being the only cast members that RT'd the article for S7. It may just be wishful thinking but it sounds like these two are definitely in their plans for whatever the show would do in S7. Just my opinion.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Hookian

[Curio]

10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Fun fact: "Snuff Out the Light!" was a song from the Emperor's New Groove, but got removed from the final film. It was meant to be sung by Eartha Kitt as the main villain.

That sounds like it would have been awesome.

I don't think a musical episode is necessarily jumping the shark since I think OUAT jumped the shark seasons ago. Any stunts they do from here on out are just extra sea lions and dolphins in the water.

4 hours ago, Serena said:

It would be cool if the Disney characters all sing songs from their original cartoon, while Emma is the one who gets a new song.

The only issue with having everyone sing their Disney cartoon songs is that the songs generally have nothing to do with the current complicated OUAT plot. It would only work if Emma was literally sucked into the television and was living out an exact recreation of the cartoon movies.

I imagine the lyrics will be cheesy Disneyesque with a little bit of humor thrown in to keep it from taking itself too seriously.

BOTH: I don't understand / How did this happen again? / Separated in far-off lands / Someday, we will be together / And sail through this nasty weather
EMMA: We’ve been here before / When you knocked on my door
HOOK: A message from a dove / That was sent from above
EMMA: Which lead you to me / But I couldn’t believe
HOOK: So you gave me a knee / To a place that’s very special to me
EMMA: I’ve already apologized for that 
HOOK: Don’t worry luv, it’s all in the past
EMMA: But in my defense, I didn't know you
HOOK: Well, it all worked out because our love is true
BOTH: And True Love, I'll always find you

Edited January 23, 2017 by Curio

[RulerofallIsurvey]

22 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

It would be cool if they brought Alan Menken over to do it (since they brought over the actress from Galavant already).

 

14 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I meanwhile am praying that they picked up some Galavant talent on contract and have been working this for a long time.

Both of the above.  Imo, practically the only way a musical episode of Once would be awesome is if the Galavant writers wrote the lyrics.  

14 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Please let this be only a few songs, preferably sung by Jasmine in a suddenly musical Agrabah.

heh.  That could work.  However, I would be disappointed if Hook, Snow, Charming, and Emma didn't also get to sing.  And doesn't Lana have a pretty good voice?

I see a lot of folks here dreading it, but honestly, this talk of a musical is just about the only thing that has even remotely caught my interest in 6B.  

[Curio]

9 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I see a lot of folks here dreading it, but honestly, this talk of a musical is just about the only thing that has even remotely caught my interest in 6B.  

Same. It's also the only spoiler that has sparked this thread to "hot levels" again. It's sad that we're more interested in discussing a musical episode we know absolutely nothing about than the actual plot that's going on with Emma/Gideon/Black Fairy and Robin/Regina. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

16 minutes ago, Curio said:

It's sad that we're more interested in discussing a musical episode we know absolutely nothing about than the actual plot that's going on with Emma/Gideon/Black Fairy and Robin/Regina. 

I know I'm burnt out on Regina.  I think a lot of other folks feel the same.  So even with Robin coming back (who I sort of liked until he became Regina's puppet) that's still too much Regina.  

The Black Fairy was a little interesting - until she turned into Rumple's mother.  Gideon just means more RumBelle drama - and I'm burnt out on that from 6A also.  Especially since it means Rumple and Belle will likely reconcile - which has me feeling sick to my stomach just thinking about it.  

So yeah - a musical we know nothing about?  Awesome! (heh.)

[Free]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Same. It's also the only spoiler that has sparked this thread to "hot levels" again. It's sad that we're more interested in discussing a musical episode we know absolutely nothing about than the actual plot that's going on with Emma/Gideon/Black Fairy and Robin/Regina. 

It's because there isn't much to talk about and the musical is a gimmick, but it's far more interesting than the actual show itself.

[Serena]

Matt just said on TVLine Live that there will probably be more musical news in the next 7 days.

[KingOfHearts]

"Alright, the show is heading for cancellation. What do we do?"

A&E: "Bring back the Author, of course!"

They should bring back all our other favorites like: Greg and Tamara, Merida, Dorothy, Prince Jonathan, and Tiny.

Edited January 23, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

"Alright, the show is heading for cancellation. What do we do?"

A&E: "Bring back the Author, of course!"

They should bring back all our other favorites like: Greg and Tamara, Merida, Dorothy, Prince Jonathan, and Tiny.

Everything feels like a desperate gimmick.

[Curio]

I like the actor, but I hate the author as a character. What, is he going to escape jail and write some more Regina fanfic? He must be thrilled Robin and Regina are back together.

[Rumsy4]

Oh god, noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

[Curio]

Is this how they're going to do the musical episode? The Author is going to write another AU fanfic where everyone sings?

[Souris]

Seriously, who effing cares about the Author???

[Shanna Marie]

Bringing back a reminder of a very unpopular and unsuccessful story arc that makes less sense the more you think about it sounds like a great way to boost ratings and ensure renewal. Said no one ever.

[Rumsy4]

I guess Isaac's new plan of revenge is making everyone break out into song at random moments. Is he...gasp..going to make the heroes sing offkey??!

[SiobhanJW]

Maybe next season is the CS adventure? They get married in the Season Finale and spend next season on their Honeymoon Realm jumping and helping with crisis and issues? Hehe. 

[KateJones]

Is it too obvious to point out that he's not even the author anymore?

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, KateJones said:

Is it too obvious to point out that he's not even the author anymore?

Shhhh... we're post-truth now. Anyone can be anything.

Actually, you do bring up a good point. Maybe he's pissed off at Henry for murdering the pen and doesn't think Henry is doing the job well (which, I mean, he isn't...), so he steals the Author powers back from Henry and goes rogue.

[Souris]

Maybe Henry stupidly Henry-ly goes to talk to him because he wants to write Emma not dying. That seems like a Henry sort of thing that Henry would do.

[Curio]

Henry Season 5: "Ehhh...whatevs. My mom got sucked into an evil tornado and we have no idea where she went. I'm just going to slurp on this giant soda pop."

Henry Season 6: "Hey Author, I need your help."

I mean, it would be a pretty Henry thing to do.

[Camera One]

I had to embrace the Darkness to enter and say I REALLY HATE ISAAC.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I guess Isaac's new plan of revenge is making everyone break out into song at random moments. Is he...gasp..going to make the heroes sing offkey??!

Isaac is a songwriter now. He steals Henry's pen and writing music with it makes people sing.

Or the finale just takes place in Musical World. Belle teaches My Fairy Lady to be a proper woman, Danny Zuko compliments Hook on his tastes in leather, and Zelena sings Defying Gravity.

Edited January 24, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

And the announcement of the Author's return killed any and all interest I had left in the season. I'm not sure I can stick it out to the end. I'm just waiting for the inevitable return of Lily to complete the return to 4B fun.

[Curio]

10 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

I'm just waiting for the inevitable return of Lily to complete the return to 4B fun.

 

You jinxed it! Now she's certain to return.

It's strange that they're pulling so much of 4B's terribleness into 6B. It's like they looked at this forum, saw our debate about whether 4B or 6A is worse, and decided to combine them together to create a 6B monster.

[TheGreenKnight]

I don't like the Author, but if this does turn out to be the final season, I can understand why he might appear for a moment or one episode along with other characters.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

And the announcement of the Author's return killed any and all interest I had left in the season. I'm not sure I can stick it out to the end. I'm just waiting for the inevitable return of Lily to complete the return to 4B fun.

Who said the Author was actually returning?  I thought that was just a bit of sarcasm on the part of @KingOfHearts.