Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

I'm usually not a fan of Henry, but I've actually been waiting for a storyline like this to come up. It's natural for Henry to feel a little awkward now that Hook is moving from friend to father figure and living in the same house, and I'm all for the show exploring it as long as they do it on screen in a realistic and interesting way. Hook has never really had a father figure in his life, and he's never been a father either, so this should be just as awkward for him. Hook may have been a natural around Ashley's toddler, but with the way Killian's childhood was spent in servitude, I'm guessing he might be stricter with Henry now that he's a teen and can handle it.

[daxx]

And Hook is really used to giving orders and having them followed without any lip and a "yes sir" to boot. There will be a learning curve on both sides. Also Hook won't stand for Henry disrespecting Emma at all.

[tri4335]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

I'm usually not a fan of Henry, but I've actually been waiting for a storyline like this to come up. It's natural for Henry to feel a little awkward now that Hook is moving from friend to father figure and living in the same house, and I'm all for the show exploring it as long as they do it on screen in a realistic and interesting way. Hook has never really had a father figure in his life, and he's never been a father either, so this should be just as awkward for him. Hook may have been a natural around Ashley's toddler, but with the way Killian's childhood was spent in servitude, I'm guessing he might be stricter with Henry now that he's a teen and can handle it.

I agree with all this but unfortunately that is not why they are doing it. It is all for the angst and there will be no exploration of any of the above and it won't be realistic.  Yes I admit it; I'm bitter!

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Everyone let's Henry do whatever he wants. He threatens his family to get his way, he doesn't lis ten when the adults in his life talk to him. His ass needs to be reigned in.

God yes! He needs to be grounded for the next two years.

1 hour ago, daxx said:

And Hook is really used to giving orders and having them followed without any lip and a "yes sir" to boot. There will be a learning curve on both sides. Also Hook won't stand for Henry disrespecting Emma at all.

The narrative typically rewards Henry for unloading on Emma. It's time someone actually parented the brat. 

The EQ's hair and outfit in that sneak peek are terrible. It's top-heavy. I feel like Lana is going to topple over any minute. That kind of top and hairdo calls for a skirt to go with it, not tight pants. 

[Shanna Marie]

5 hours ago, Curio said:

I'm usually not a fan of Henry, but I've actually been waiting for a storyline like this to come up. It's natural for Henry to feel a little awkward now that Hook is moving from friend to father figure and living in the same house, and I'm all for the show exploring it as long as they do it on screen in a realistic and interesting way.

That really would be interesting. The problem is that they haven't set that up at all. We don't know what Henry thinks about Hook, other than that he's asked him for help a couple of times for sneaking into places. Otherwise, we have absolutely no idea what Henry thinks about Hook as a person or as a potential stepfather. We don't know what he thinks about Hook moving in. They picked out the house together, but did Henry assume Hook would be living there? We didn't get to see Emma talking to Henry about Hook moving in. Even if there is a scene setting up Henry's pissy mood in the clip and his vehement "He's not my father," that scene hasn't had the groundwork laid for it because Henry and Hook's entire relationship has taken place offscreen. They only interact when the plot requires it, and those interactions are plot-related, with almost no personal content. For us to know that there's a transition between friend and father figure, we have to know that they actually were friends to start with. We don't know if Henry looks at Hook as "it's cool to know Captain Hook," as "the guy who was friends with my dad," as an adult friend, as a big brother, as a surrogate uncle, as his step-grandfather (we don't even know if he knows about that part), as the guy dating his mom, or just as a guy who's kind of useful in a crisis and who will do anything to help Emma. Though, even if all he sees Hook as is that last one, he should know that the Evil Queen is totally wrong about Hook. How many times has the guy died or nearly died for her, how many portals has he jumped through for her? It's hard to see that as not really caring about Emma or her family.

[KingOfHearts]

Gonna reply in Relationships.

[Mathius]

Someone really oughta run a google search and find out exactly how many times A&E have used the "I'd be very disappointed if" line in interviews, then tweet Adam the number. Maybe it will convince him that they need new material.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Mathius

[RadioGirl27]

The new sneak peek is so great. At least we now the acting this episode is going to be amazing.

[KingOfHearts]

That Captain Nemo sneak peek was pretty sweet. I love the aesthetic of the Nautlius and the costumes. When Nemo said "family", I actually thought he meant he had a family member of Hook's onboard, lol! Sadly, this seems like one of those flashbacks where a character almost learns a life-changing lesson, only to choose to remain on their current path. (For obvious continuity reasons.)

Side note: I loved the fire in Hook when he told Nemo he had no idea how he felt. Haven't seen that since Dark Hook.

Edited October 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

33 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

When Nemo said "family", I actually thought he meant he had a family member of Hook's onboard, lol!

Don't be so sure there isn't.  Colin's latest interview says: “There is somebody on Nemo’s crew that Hook has a history with, and that speaks to the bigger picture of why the Nautilus and Nemo are on the show.” 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Mathius

[PixiePaws1]

Nemo was a pretty much 'all for one or you die' character in the film. He usually gave rescued sailors one choice and that was to serve with him on Nautilus or die..no middle ground. He was driven to 'fix' what he saw as a corrupt world....he came off as being oh so reasonable in the way that only the totally batshit crazy can. 

I  LOVE Faran and he and Colin on screen together is just magic...BUT....how did someone like Hook, never been on the ship before, know to push that odd looking thing on the walll that opened the window?  He went straight to it.

[Mathius]

I'm glad they're avoiding butchering Nemo's story by having this take place after it.  We don't have another Monte Cristo on our hands, then.

[Rumsy4]

Looks like the David sub-plot involving his father's death is being sidelined for now. That's pathetic. I was so sure it was going to be addressed soon. 

Nemo looks awesome. I'm really excited for the episode, though I'm sure if I'm going to be able to watch live.

[Shanna Marie]

15 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Looks like the David sub-plot involving his father's death is being sidelined for now. That's pathetic. I was so sure it was going to be addressed soon. 

It seems like their usual case of them getting started with something and losing interest and leaving it hanging. And the fact that they're not dealing with it anytime soon does raise the chance that the culprit will be Hook, since it won't be close to Hook's centric about him probably having done something else bad in the past.

I'm looking forward to the episode enough that I'm planning a themed dinner with fish, to go with the "under the sea" motif, for eating while watching. I bitch a lot about the show, but I do look forward to it every week, with that "Yay, my show is almost on!" feeling.

[kitticup]

When memo said family, I thought if Bae, but that won't make any sense.  I miss young Bae.  Then I thought Liam 2.  I wonder who it is.

[YaddaYadda]

40 minutes ago, kitticup said:

When memo said family, I thought if Bae, but that won't make any sense.  I miss young Bae.  Then I thought Liam 2.  I wonder who it is.

I think he meant it the way Hook did when he told Bae they could be family. 

[Rumsy4]

But there was a spoiler about Hook finding something more about his family, right? 

[RadioGirl27]

Maybe Nemo is the one related to Hook. We know nothing about his mom, so maybe she was Nemo's sister or daughter. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, kitticup said:

When memo said family, I thought if Bae, but that won't make any sense.  I miss young Bae.  Then I thought Liam 2.  I wonder who it is.

I don't think it could be Liam 2. Hook went straight to Wonderland after he learned about 2.0, then the curse hit soon after he got back. During the missing year, he wasn't on a vengeance quest. It would be tricky to have him have family during that era, unless this is during a cake run. However, if Nemo picked him up while he was in Neverland, maybe it could be Bae, and that's how they got over their initial rift. But I don't think Bae was mentioned in the news release, was he? It seems like it would have to be a new character.

[YaddaYadda]

yeah, 2.0 does not fit in the timeline at all. But that's never stopped our intrepid writers.

They mentioned 2 crew members in the press release. So we see one of them right off the bat, so I'm thinking maybe he knows personally the other one.

I kind of like the premise though, that Nemo might be trying to find people like him so that they can all have a second chance together. And this is so very reminiscent of episode 2.22 when Emma tells Hook that he can have a chance at something else. 

I think that this episode will probably draw on that, including the part about why Hook chooses not to stay on the Nautilus. Bae found out Hook was lying to him about knowing his parents, and he flipped his shit, with reason. Hook started out by using Bae, and then got really attached to him. I think the same scenario will apply for Hook with Nemo. He'll probably be all set to stay until he finds out that Nemo has been withholding information.

Quote

As for these flashbacks’ overall purpose, “There is somebody on Nemo’s crew that Hook has a history with,” O’Donoghue teases, “and that speaks to the bigger picture of why the Nautilus and Nemo are on the show.”

This part of the article is really interesting and I wonder what the bigger picture is. Is it related to whatever secrets there are in his family's past? Is it too much to hope?

I also thought it was funny that a bunch of Dory fishes were swimming around the Nautilus. I don't know if this is a wink wink type of situation because the captain's name is Nemo.

[Shanna Marie]

9 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Quote

As for these flashbacks’ overall purpose, “There is somebody on Nemo’s crew that Hook has a history with,” O’Donoghue teases, “and that speaks to the bigger picture of why the Nautilus and Nemo are on the show.”

This part of the article is really interesting and I wonder what the bigger picture is. Is it related to whatever secrets there are in his family's past? Is it too much to hope?

Maybe a former member of his crew? I suspect, knowing this show, it will be someone we've never heard of and never will hear of again, whose path just happened to have crossed with Hook's and who then ended up in the Land of Untold Stories so he can provide a valuable lesson and a parallel with what's going on with Henry. That seems more likely than to actually learn anything meaningful about Hook.

[Souris]

Emma looks ill in that pic Jen posted, so I doubt it's a sleeping curse. Maybe effects of the Savior illness. Unless they put her in a sleeping curse to stave off the effects of the Savior illness. But it also looks like an EF-style single bed, plus there's green screen, so that makes me wonder if it's in the EF. Or perhaps some sort of dream world courtesy of Morpheus.

[Shanna Marie]

Wacky thought on the Hook connection with Nemo: It's going to be essentially a repeat of Hook and Bae: The reason we've never heard of Mama Jones is that she left, running away with a dashing submariner to get away from her no-good criminal husband. At some point, her ex caught up with her and killed her in a fit of fury. Nemo hunted down her ex, caught him, and put him in a sleeping curse, but he wasn't able to find the sons left behind -- until decades later, when Nemo comes across the youngest, now an adult, on one of the first cake runs after he went to Neverland. Nemo will hold back on telling Hook the truth until he feels like Hook might be comfortable with him, but then Hook still rejects the idea of being "family" with him, since his revenge on Rumple is more important to him, and he wants to go back to Neverland to bide his time and find a way to kill a Dark One.

[tri4335]

11 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Wacky thought on the Hook connection with Nemo: It's going to be essentially a repeat of Hook and Bae: The reason we've never heard of Mama Jones is that she left, running away with a dashing submariner to get away from her no-good criminal husband. At some point, her ex caught up with her and killed her in a fit of fury. Nemo hunted down her ex, caught him, and put him in a sleeping curse, but he wasn't able to find the sons left behind -- until decades later, when Nemo comes across the youngest, now an adult, on one of the first cake runs after he went to Neverland. Nemo will hold back on telling Hook the truth until he feels like Hook might be comfortable with him, but then Hook still rejects the idea of being "family" with him, since his revenge on Rumple is more important to him, and he wants to go back to Neverland to bide his time and find a way to kill a Dark One.

Ohh I buy this theory and then they can mirror it with Henry. Finally with Hook and Henry it works and the "son" accepts the relationship instead of rejecting it.

[Mathius]

Every Hook flashback sadly follows a formula, which is that he has a chance to be a better man due to a person he bonds with (Bae, Ariel, Ursula, his own father temporarily), but something happens that makes him go back to his selfish and vengeful ways and spoils the relationship with that person. It's just like the formula of Emma flashbacks (she meets someone, lets her walls down, gets screwed over by that person in some way...though the previous flashback had that person dying rather than betraying her) and Snowing vs. the Evil Queen flashbacks (do I even need to go into detail here?)

I'll give Rumple this, he seems to have the most variety to his flashbacks.  It's never just the same basic ordeal over and over again.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

I'm beginning to question whether or not Hook is actually involved with Charming's dad's death. The teasers at the beginning of the season seemed to point that way, but we're getting to be a little late for that. Whatever is going on with Hook's past seems to do with the Captain Nemo episode coming up. Charming's investigation seems to be pushed back closer to the winter climax, which suggests it could be a bigger deal than trust issues.

It's also possible it will be brought up at the end of the Nemo episode.

Edited October 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

To me, A&E's evasive answer seemed to suggest that storyline would be pushed to the Spring. Maybe something came up (new toy), and they changed their minds about having that story now. None of the episode titles point to a Charming centric before the winter break. They could of course keep it as a C-plot and resolve it within someone else's centric.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

They could of course keep it as a C-plot and resolve it within someone else's centric.

Pretty much how they handled the James arc in 5B.

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

To me, A&E's evasive answer seemed to suggest that storyline would be pushed to the Spring. Maybe something came up (new toy), and they changed their minds about having that story now. None of the episode titles point to a Charming centric before the winter break. They could of course keep it as a C-plot and resolve it within someone else's centric.

Probably whatever storyline they're doing with Robin.

[Mathius]

Exactly.  They probably have a rough map-out of the season, and Robin Hood coming in for multiple episodes is the first big divergence the actual season has taken from the plan (by contrast, the "Rumbelle baby = hooded figure" plot was clearly planned from the start, since "Morpheus" was in the premiere and I'm pretty damn sure they had his actor dress up and film the vision duel with Emma at the same time, similar to how they got Barbara Hershey to record lines for the Queen of Hearts in 1x17 when they brought her in for 1x18.)  David's arc getting delayed is a consequence. 

Now I wonder if in Spring, they'll make it so that Hook ISN'T David's dad's killer, and that he was originally supposed to be but so many people guessed that obvious "twist" that they decided to switch gears and go with a different culprit.  It certainly sounds likes something that A&E would do.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Agree. Besides, the promised Captain Charming "bromance" that  was teased at Comic Con hasn't happened yet. So maybe they really did change that storyline. I can only hope (I don't want Hook to have killed David's father). 

[Shanna Marie]

Since it was Josh and Colin talking about the bromance and then something that happened to mess it up, does that mean they ended up cutting those scenes? Aren't we at or even beyond the point they'd filmed at the time of Comic Con? It's weird that the actors were talking like their relationship would really be developing early in the season, and about the only scene they've had together was when they handcuffed Hyde. Have they even talked to each other?

[pezgirl7]

Does anyone else think that BTS pic that Jen posted could be from an AU? Her hair looks different, the silk sheets and headboard look like something that could be in a castle, and the green screen makes me think it's not just a normal bedroom.

[PixiePaws1]

2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Does anyone else think that BTS pic that Jen posted could be from an AU? Her hair looks different, the silk sheets and headboard look like something that could be in a castle, and the green screen makes me think it's not just a normal bedroom.

It looks like a single bed. My first thought was that she had been kidnapped or she was succumbing to the effects of Savior-itis and her family have hidden her somewhere to kerp her safe.....but, yeah...definitely could be AU.

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Agree. Besides, the promised Captain Charming "bromance" that  was teased at Comic Con hasn't happened yet. So maybe they really did change that storyline. I can only hope (I don't want Hook to have killed David's father). 

God, I hate this word so much! It's a bromance when it suits David.

10 hours ago, Mathius said:

Now I wonder if in Spring, they'll make it so that Hook ISN'T David's dad's killer, and that he was originally supposed to be but so many people guessed that obvious "twist" that they decided to switch gears and go with a different culprit.  It certainly sounds likes something that A&E would do.

The whole story as David remembers it already doesn't sound very plausible. Because why would a constable lie about the way they found the father? 

There was a spoiler that David was going to enlist Hook's assistance. I think it supposed to be about his father and figuring out what happened to him, but who knows.

I've always been in the minority, I just don't think Hook had anything to do with this death at all.

[KingOfHearts]

That flower comment.

Snow: "... And then Henry made me to read our stories to him. That night he got up and walked around, looking for the first place we met. Then I found him under the toll bridge and-"

Belle: "Why are you telling me all this?"

Snow: "It's needless continuity. It has to go somewhere."

[YaddaYadda]

14 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

That flower comment.

Snow: "... And then Henry made me to read our stories to him. That night he got up and walked around, looking for the first place we met. Then I found him under the toll bridge and-"

Belle: "Why are you telling me all this?"

Snow: "It's needless continuity. It has to go somewhere."

I'm expecting a speech about hope and then for Snow to tell Belle that she should go back to her husband, not for her, but for their baby. Because Snow says stuff like that.

[Mathius]

Quote

It's a bromance when it suits David.

More like when it suits the writers. 

As I said before, they wrote its development consistent until reversing it in 4B and 5A, then it came back in 5B, now it's reversed again.

[Writing Wrongs]

Was this in tonight's episode? 

Script tease

[Camera One]

I get why Robin Hood is coming back now.  They want to do fun stuff with Rebecca Mader in 6B and they need someone to babysit the baby.

[PixiePaws1]

45 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I get why Robin Hood is coming back now.  They want to do fun stuff with Rebecca Mader in 6B and they need someone to babysit the baby.

This made laugh so hard.....well, Archie escaped so someone has to do it!

[Curio]

13 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Was this in tonight's episode? 

Script tease

 

They must have cut that scene.

Jennifer recently posted on her Instagram a photo of her and the actress who plays young Emma Swan. I don't know if that actress dresses like that in real life or if that's an Emma Swan outfit. The grey beanie, plaid shirt, jeans, and waved hair makes it seem like they might be filming an Emma Swan flashback.

[Serena]

She's dressed just like Emma and they even did her hair like Emma, so I'm betting on flashback. 

Also... "Gold’s and the Evil Queen’s burgeoning romance"??? WHAT???

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

In a flashback to the Enchanted Forest, Bandit Snow dodges a bounty hunter known as the Woodcutter

Wait... Zelena's adoptive dad was a bounty hunter?! ;)

Quote

In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen threatens to destroy the town and everyone in it unless Snow and David surrender their hearts

So it seems like the show is finally following up on Snow and David's split heart. (Oooh! The duality!!!!) The title "Heartless" makes me think of their saga in S1.

Quote

Also... "Gold’s and the Evil Queen’s burgeoning romance"??? WHAT???

Yeah, I'm not too excited about this episode. We know Snowing aren't going to die, and we know Storybrooke remains in one piece. I really don't care what happens.

Quote

Zelena offers Belle some friendly advice

Belle: "Hey Zelena, do you have any pregnancy tips? I have these cravings, and-"
Zelena: "My sister is having an affair with your husband!"
Belle: "Wait.. what?"
Zelena: "If you want my advice, embrace his wickedness. It's the only way you can truly bond. That's how I've become so close to her."
Belle: "Why are you helping me?"
Zelena: "Because there's a better chance of getting Rumple for myself if its you in the way and not the Evil Queen."
Belle: "Gee, thanks."

Edited October 31, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

No mention of Liam 2.0 in the casting for the news release, so I guess that's a one and done thing. In a way, that ending made sense, where Liam is over trying to kill Hook, but his real family is Nemo, and he has no interest in establishing a relationship with the brother who ruined his life. But on this show, that's usually the start of a beautiful relationship. Maybe the Nautilus really does have realm-jumping abilities, and once Nemo's recovered, they'll all head off and we'll never hear of 2.0 again.

[Mathius]

Emma/Hook/Henry and Regina/Snow/Charming AGAIN?  Writers, you need to start writing some new character team-ups.

Although Belle/Zelena, that was used once in 5B but is still relatively new, so that's interesting at least.

[RadioGirl27]

For this writers, the other only real option would be Emma/Regina, so I take Emma/Hook/Henry and Regina/Snow/Charming any day of the week.

Next week's episode sounds awful.

[Free]

27 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

For this writers, the other only real option would be Emma/Regina, so I take Emma/Hook/Henry and Regina/Snow/Charming any day of the week.

Next week's episode sounds awful.

Snow and Charming are spending more time with Regina than their own daughter.

[Mathius]

32 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

For this writers, the other only real option would be Emma/Regina,

Oh, we'll be getting that in the following episode, don't worry. 

Quote

Snow and Charming are spending more time with Regina than their own daughter.

The writers honestly think their relationship is more interesting and touching than the Snow/Charming/Emma relationship.  It's sad but true.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

Yep, Emma's going to die, but they continue to work with Regina and don't even bother worrying about spending what could be Emma's final days with her. I get that the writers want Regina protecting Snow from her evil self, but it only furthers the idea that they really don't have a relationship with their daughter.

Edited October 31, 2016 by KAOS Agent