Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Free]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I really, really hate the Neal tributes. I disliked Rumple's speech at the gravestone, Snowflake's name, his cameo at the beginning of 5x12, and all the times his mentions are shoehorned in. Somehow, I feel like Robin is going to get a similar treatment. Maybe it will burn less because I don't hate him as much.

My problem with Neal is that they're trying to turn him into a ghost sage trope who spouts out things when he was just a character that the writers struggled to do anything with his character after reuniting with Rumple, Emma, and Henry.  He gives out a warning to Emma in the UW arc and that ended up going nowhere, they try to use him for sad scenes for Rumple but they've turned Rumple into a cartoon villain for the last couple of seasons so it has no impact whatsoever.

Robin has even less going for him tbh, he's just there and if he's really brought back like the spoilers seem to suggest then he's just Regina's endgame because it's way too late for them to try and dump another one for her this late into the series.

[YaddaYadda]

The only thing I can see come out of Robin's return is Regina reabsorbing EQ, and even with that, if she hasn't learned anything before Robin comes back, then I give up. Uncle, mercy, whichever. I also don't care for Robin one bit. While I agree that his ending was very abrupt, I'm pretty sure the writers had decided after 5x02 that they were going to do away with the character. I just thought it would happen in the first arc instead of the second one.

And now I'm reading that we have some fuckery with the dwarfs dressed like they are in the EF, but they're really in Storybrooke, and that Stealthy is alive and well. 

[Serena]

2 hours ago, Free said:

Robin has even less going for him tbh, he's just there and if he's really brought back like the spoilers seem to suggest then he's just Regina's endgame because it's way too late for them to try and dump another one for her this late into the series.

I agree. This may be weird for me to say as a CS shipper, but if I had to choose between Neal at his best (yes, there were moments when he wasn't annoying) and Robin at his best, I'd choose Neal. For one, MRJ was actually a good actor, and Neal was actually an important part of the show. Robin was just... there.

[maryle]

I try not to care as much for the spoiler because last week I looked too much at whatever speculation was out there.

When we just don't have enough information to have a real understanding of how the storyline will be going.

 with the next shooting we will have more clearer picture about what I care Emma,  Killian and the Charming

For the rest I think RH will be back in the present as a form of ghost and mostly for Regina splitting storyline.

And, others (Charming dead mystery, Killian involved or not, Rumbelle soap and Emma arc )will still going on mostly separately. I think it is more probable than multiple episode in some alternate universe. But, will see soon enough.

[KingOfHearts]

Have we seen Aladdin or Jasmine film anything past 6x05?

[Kktjones]

They were both seen in Steveston filming for 6x06 and I know that Karen David recently posted a pic of her with Colin and Jared. I believe that one was during filming for 6x09. Not sure about other episodes...

[Free]

5 hours ago, Serena said:

I agree. This may be weird for me to say as a CS shipper, but if I had to choose between Neal at his best (yes, there were moments when he wasn't annoying) and Robin at his best, I'd choose Neal. For one, MRJ was actually a good actor, and Neal was actually an important part of the show. Robin was just... there.

Neal's problem seems to be a lack of foresight on the writers' part, they simply didn't know what to do with his character after he reunited with everyone in S2.  Robin is simply there to be a de facto LI for Regina and nothing more: Marian and Roland were just plot devices for OQ drama.

[PixiePaws1]

Can't wait to see Colin and Faran share scenes. Faran always brings such gravity to everything he does...so hoping they give him some really meaty scenes ...oh yes., TS;TW...expectations lowering....

[PixiePaws1]

Could an aged up baby Robin be under the hood....EQ's comment about her makes me wonder....perhaps RH's return/summoning is also about putting his  daughter back on the good path and off the wicked..

[InsertWordHere]

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

They were both seen in Steveston filming for 6x06 and I know that Karen David recently posted a pic of her with Colin and Jared. I believe that one was during filming for 6x09. Not sure about other episodes...

This was the episode where Emma was in her dress/hoodie combo and was talking to Aladdin, right? I suppose it's too much to hope that Aladdin will tell Emma something that will make her completely change her mind about the shears and she'll regret tossing them and then Hook will whip them out and everything will be all sunshine and roses and no one will be mad?

Yeah, yeah I know it's probably too much to hope for that. 

[RadioGirl27]

5 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

This was the episode where Emma was in her dress/hoodie combo and was talking to Aladdin, right? I suppose it's too much to hope that Aladdin will tell Emma something that will make her completely change her mind about the shears and she'll regret tossing them and then Hook will whip them out and everything will be all sunshine and roses and no one will be mad?

Yeah, yeah I know it's probably too much to hope for that. 

Nah. The villain du jour would steal the shears from Hook and use them on Emma. And of course Emma (and everyone else, really) would be mad at him. He has no right to be mad and react to Emma lying to him, but she can and will do it. I mean, she is a character, he is just a prop.

Edited October 24, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[PixiePaws1]

wonder if the Scissors of Fate can be used to cut away any other magic. ..like the EQ's or Jafar's...

[Mathius]

3 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Nah. The villain du jour would steal the shears from Hook and use them on Emma. And of course Emma (and everyone else, really) would be mad at him. He has no right to be mad and react to Emma lying to him, but she can and will do it. I mean, she is a character, he is just a prop.

The shears don't work that way, they can't be used on Emma by anyone else but Emma.  

Otherwise, Jafar would have just used them on Aladdin himself.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

13 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Have we seen Aladdin or Jasmine film anything past 6x05?

episodes 6x06, 6x08, 6x09 or 6x10. There's 3 more episodes for sure with them. 

[Watt]

Is robin staying? Is he back on the show? I'm having trouble figuring that out. Just back as a one off for closure?

[InsertWordHere]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

The shears don't work that way, they can't be used on Emma by anyone else but Emma.  

Otherwise, Jafar would have just used them on Aladdin himself.

I know some on tumblr have headcanoned this, but Emma said to Hook, "Take them. I don't want them used as a weapon. If they fell into the wrong hands- We need to be sure to be rid of them." So maybe they can be used against someone? Maybe it's only the Savior's main squeeze villain who can't use them, which means EQ can't use them on Emma, but Zelena can. Maybe Emma's wrong. Who knows? But I don't think we have enough information to say those shears definitely can't be used against Emma or any other "good" character for that matter, including Regina, because I bet both versions count as the same person to the shears. 

[Serena]

2 hours ago, Mathius said:

The shears don't work that way, they can't be used on Emma by anyone else but Emma.  

And that's why Evil!Emma will use them against good!Emma and that's what her vision is all about.

[RadioGirl27]

We don't know how the shears work, I don't think A&E know how they work. That's why they didn't really explain who can or can't use them, and why we never saw them being used. That way they don't need to retcon anything when the moment of actually using them arrives.

[Kktjones]

Does anyone know if we're getting anymore characters from the Land of Untold stories beyond Captain Nemo next week? I can't recall hearing about any others, but I may have missed a spoiler here or there. If not, they really didn't dig too deep into that land, did they? They had the Count of Monte Cristo and Nemo - who are both literary characters. And then Cinderella's step mother and sister, and Jasmine/Oracle - who are really from fairy tales.

[scenicbyway]

Anyone else think the scissors are last season's magic mushroom?  Or tiny colander/star map/shadow trap from Neverland?  A device that never ends up being useful.  My guess is that each Savior has their own version of the "scissors" and these won't work on Emma.  Blah, blah, blah.

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Anyone else think the scissors are last season's magic mushroom?  Or tiny colander/star map/shadow trap from Neverland?  A device that never ends up being useful. 

They did use the shadow trap to trap the shadow, stick it to the sail, and get them home. But I do suspect that the only way the shears will come into play will be for relationship angst with Emma and Hook when she learns he kept them. Or else they'll be forgotten entirely, that it was all just to create that cliffhanger moment, and it will never pay off. It'll be like the voice mail message.

[Souris]

Henry the Truest Stupid still in effect. When will he learn to stop listening to the villain du jour? Pan, Cruella, now the EQ.

[Mathius]

It is nice that Hook's plot centers around him and Henry, not him and Emma for a change.

But ugh, just let Snowing freaking adopt Regina already!  They have literally spent more time with her than with Emma.

[Souris]

2 minutes ago, Mathius said:

It is nice that Hook's plot centers around him and Henry, not him and Emma for a change.

That would be very nice at a different time, but NOT when the situation cries out so much for a Hook/Emma focus with her vision/death looming.

[Rumsy4]

First David. Now Henry. Both of them have forgotten Season 5 existed in how they feel about Hook. Meh. 

It is nice that Jiminy is not forgotten. 

Was the lesson Gold taught Regina "magic is power" or something like that?

[Rumsy4]

16 minutes ago, Souris said:

Henry the Truest Stupid still in effect. When will he learn to stop listening to the villain du jour? Pan, Cruella, now the EQ.

Well--she is his mother. :-p

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Was the lesson Gold taught Regina "magic is power" or something like that?

Or, "You can't have everything, dearie."

[formerlyfreedom]

Just putting this out there, but since the magical shears are already part of the show, they may be best discussed in the Speculation topic? Obviously if a spoiler is released about them, back here, but some of the folks who post in Speculation may enjoy discussing what they may or may not do and how exactly they work. Thanks!

[Free]

3 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Anyone else think the scissors are last season's magic mushroom?  Or tiny colander/star map/shadow trap from Neverland?  A device that never ends up being useful.  My guess is that each Savior has their own version of the "scissors" and these won't work on Emma.  Blah, blah, blah.

Yep, it's the new plot device.

[Shanna Marie]

Hook has the hook in the promo photos, so I guess this is during his revenge phase. Unless Nemo kidnapped him from Neverland, as much time as he seems to have spent back in his world during the Neverland era, he should have aged about 20 years during that century. That's getting to be his version of the Regina tries and fails to kill Snow yet again flashback phase. Now, how will his desire for revenge play into the story with Nemo? It's pretty much a given that there's something else he could have had, but he fails the test by putting revenge first. And what will drive him and Henry apart? It's not like they're super-close. One fake sword fight doesn't mean they have much of a relationship. We'd need to see them actually interacting and have the slightest idea what Henry feels about Hook.

[InsertWordHere]

My question is how does Nemo get to the Land of Untold Stories since so far everyone seems to have used the key? I wonder if Nemo had the key first and Rumple got it later or if Nemo makes a deal with Rumple in the flashbacks. 

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

First David. Now Henry. Both of them have forgotten Season 5 existed in how they feel about Hook. Meh. 

IDK, I think the EQ could very easily play on Henry's feelings to drive him and Hook apart. She is his mother and would know exactly how to do it. Plus, season five had Henry witness Hook go totally wild and try to send everyone to the Underworld. He also saw the emotional distress Hook's actions caused for Emma. 

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

IDK, I think the EQ could very easily play on Henry's feelings to drive him and Hook apart. She is his mother and would know exactly how to do it. 

I'm sure she could manipulate Henry using Hook's actions as the Dark One. But it's not like she has a clean slate herself. But then, the EQ is Henry's mother. So, it would be odd for him to disown her. I'm actually surprised EQ! hasn't done more to get Henry "back", so to speak. Other than the posture lesson, she has left him alone so far. lol

[InsertWordHere]

Yeah, even during that Dark One escapade Henry was going around forgiving Rumple and Regina while blaming Emma for everything. Maybe it's as simple as Henry having more forgiveness for the people he's known longer? 

[Shanna Marie]

6 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Maybe it's as simple as Henry having more forgiveness for the people he's known longer?

Or it may be what Emma said when she was so disappointed with her parents about the eggbaby thing and Hook (I think it was him) pointed out that she'd forgiven him and Regina, that she expected more of her parents because they were supposedly good all along. It's that villain/hero double standard, where a villain doing one good thing makes him/her a hero, while a hero who slips even a little looks like a villain. So Rumple and Regina/Evil Queen doing anything not totally evil makes them okay with Henry, while Emma being less than perfect makes them awful. I'm not sure where Hook falls on that spectrum with Henry. He was a villain but is now a hero, so does he have to be perfect or is he getting points for being good now?

Though, really, it's hard to see how any rift between Henry and Hook would have any emotional impact on either the characters or the viewers since we haven't seen them having a relationship. We know Henry means a lot to Hook because he's the product of just about everyone he's ever loved -- Emma's son, Bae's son, Milah's grandson. But we still don't have a good sense of how Henry feels. We never saw him react to Hook's death. He only got condolences for Robin's death and didn't mention that Hook was also dead. He didn't react at all to Hook coming back to life. We haven't seen him react to Hook moving in with Emma. They did pick out the house together and have pulled off a couple of jailbreaks together, but we really don't know what Henry thinks about him. That makes it kind of hard to be all "oh no, the Evil Queen is going to tear them apart!" Based on Henry's track record, he won't even notice.

[Curio]

Yeah, maybe if the writers allowed Operation Light Swan to happen on screen, or showed us a few seconds of Hook and Henry supposedly sailing together on screen, or basically showed us any significant interaction between those two instead of shoving them off to Offscreenville, this upcoming plot would have a lot more emotional resonance. Maybe they won't drag out the shears secret for multiple episodes and Regina will whisper to Henry the location of where Hook is keeping the shears, Henry will find them in Hook's jacket or treasure chest and confront Emma about it, and then we'll have a bunch of family fallout. But it's not like it'll last for long because Hook is the one comforting Henry in the vision, so they're back on solid terms in a few episodes anyways.

Edit: Now that I think about it, have we ever even had a conversation between Hook and Henry where Hook says how much he cares for Emma and wants the best for her? Obviously, if they were house hunting together in Season 5 you'd assume they had that conversation, but the audience has never gotten to see it on screen. Maybe Henry confronts Hook about the shears without going to Emma, and Hook confesses that he kept them because he doesn't see Henry's mom as a Savior. Instead, he fell in love with Emma just because she was Emma Swan—Hook didn't even know Emma was a Savior until Season 3—and he refuses to give up the one option that could help normal Emma in the long run. So maybe Henry is the one who talks to Hook and gives him the push he needs to talk to Emma about the shears, which would parallel Emma pushing Aladdin to confront Jasmine about Agrabah. But that's probably asking for way too much characterization and "boring talk" out of TS;TW.

Those photos of the Nautilus look absolutely gorgeous. Can we forget Season 6 ever happened and have a spin-off mini-series where Hook and Nemo are badass captains who work together and travel the seas defeating bad guys and sea monsters? One ship above water, one ship below. I'd totally watch that over whatever the hell it is they're trying to do right now on the mother show.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

Hook is my favourite character, but next episode sounds so, so boring. The flashback seems cool but totally unrelated to the story and the Storybrooke part seems even more pointless, with everyone running around like headless chickens and the EQ chewing the scenary.

[Curio]

Quote

The flashback seems cool but totally unrelated to the story and the Storybrooke part seems even more pointless, with everyone running around like headless chickens and the EQ chewing the scenary.

 

This has been the issue with every Land of Untold story this season—all the flashbacks seem very disjointed and I don't feel like I'm watching a cohesive show right now. Captain Nemo's flashback at least seems like fun and he could fit right in with Storybrooke, but I doubt we'll seem him again past this episode. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Curio

[PixiePaws1]

Sounds like Emma and Killian won't get so much as a scene together, let alone an actual deep and meaningful about the Big Revelation and the handy Slice-O-Savior's-Magic (also comes with steak knives!)....*sigh*

[YaddaYadda]

I think the EQ might just use Hook's past with Milah as in he got the woman, he didn't care for her son who so happens to be Henry's father in this situation. He left him, abandoned him to Pan. EQ doesn't need to say anything about the Dark One, Henry lived through that, and he knows what happened, but she can manipulate the information from something that happened centuries ago. Plus Henry is in a similar situation now where Hook has come into his life, is living with Emma, so he's got the woman, and now there's her son. If Henry already sees Hook as some kind of a father figure, the EQ coming in and being yeah, so here's what happened with your father when he was a boy, I can see that causing friction.

I remember reading that Eduardo Castro designed diving suits for this episode, so we'll probably get some actual under water stuff. The episode is kind of shaping up to be different from the stuff that we've had.

And we're also supposed to find out something about Hook's family.

[Souris]

3 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Sounds like Emma and Killian won't get so much as a scene together, let alone an actual deep and meaningful about the Big Revelation and the handy Slice-O-Savior's-Magic (also comes with steak knives!)....*sigh*

Yeah, I doubt there will be much if any CS in this ep, certainly not the follow-up that was sorely needed after the last ep. There's too much else going on, and the focus seems to be on Hook/Henry instead.

They have really cut down on the CS scenes this year. You can thank the anti-CS SQ brigade for that.

[maryle]

The CS are definitely being cut off but I think it is mostly because of the plot and be temporary more than the anti winning.

They have to have Emma with Archie in the beginning of the season but now Archie is back being a cricket. So, more space for Hook. 

And, they will have to come back to the new angst eventually. They love stuff like that.

Every other character plot will be involving their love interest soon even Regina.

If, it is the last year they will have to build up Emma happy ending with Killian. Cannot have a wedding without  having your couple on screen together more. 

I do believe we will have some good cute domestic scene. Surprised that not already happened.

The rating is not good enough to loss CS fans right now.

For, the speculation I am on the  world of the enchanted forest and storybook will be mixing in someway bandwagon.

This way I can see all storyline for the respective character go on and Robin Hood come back for Regina.

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Yeah, I doubt there will be much if any CS in this ep, certainly not the follow-up that was sorely needed after the last ep. There's too much else going on, and the focus seems to be on Hook/Henry instead.

They have really cut down on the CS scenes this year. You can thank the anti-CS SQ brigade for that.

Yeah, for two characters that are supposed to be in a relationship and that are supposed to be TL (who knows if that is still true, almost all of season 5 development has already been eliminated), Hook and Emma spend very little time together, and they talk to each other even less. And I doubt that would change. Looking at the spoilers we know, they haven't filmed together all that much.

Edited October 25, 2016 by RadioGirl27
Grammar

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, maryle said:

I do believe we will have some good cute domestic scene.

That will probably be in this next episode as their way of setting up the rift the Evil Queen creates between Henry and Hook. We'll have the sweet family scene at the breakfast table, and then it will all be torn apart.

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Henry is in a similar situation now where Hook has come into his life, is living with Emma, so he's got the woman, and now there's her son. If Henry already sees Hook as some kind of a father figure, the EQ coming in and being yeah, so here's what happened with your father when he was a boy, I can see that causing friction.

And that's where the lack of relationship building over the years is going to hurt them because we have no way of knowing what Henry already knows about Hook and his father's family. We saw Hook talking to Henry about being friends with his father back in 3B, when Henry didn't have his memories and Hook couldn't be entirely honest about how he knew his father. Have they talked at all since then? During all those sailing lessons, did Henry never ask a follow-up question about that conversation, now that he has his real memories? Does Henry know that Hook was involved with his grandmother? Does Henry know that his grandfather killed his grandmother? Does Henry even see Hook as a father figure? For this rift to have any real emotional impact, they'd have to do Zelena's spell and travel back in time to season 4 and show us a few of those sailing lessons and bits of the conversations they had during that time, then go to 5A to show bits of Operation Light Swan and how they chose a house that things chosen in part for Hook's interests (the view of the sea), and then go to 5B and maybe show Henry's reunion with Hook in the Underworld, then Henry's reaction to Hook being thought dead for good and his reaction to Hook being alive again. As it is, it's hard to get too emotionally invested in a rift between people who barely interact with each other and haven't done so with any semblance of depth since season 3 when they talked about Hook's friendship with Henry's father.

[KingOfHearts]

Victoria Smurfit posted a picture on Twitter of A&E's office and said, "Look what I just walked past, @AdamHorowitzLA!" Is there any reason she would be at ABC that we could guess?

[Mathius]

Unsure, maybe they want her for a new show in development?  The tweet definitely suggests it wasn't for Once, as she just walked past that office.

[Hookian]

If some kind of AU is happening then I imagine that Killian, Henry, Belle, and Zelena will be incorporated in unique ways.

Killian is obviously still a pirate cause Rumple is the DO meaning the Milah stuff happened. Henry wouldn't exist or he would have a new father(maybe Killian?). Belle... I have no idea, and Zelena...Zelena may still be working on casting the curse. It's obvious these four characters probably would not appear on arrival at this AU world. 

I look forward to seeing CS meet each other again for the first time. I don't expect we'll see Killian upon arrival in this AU, because of that reason. In every universe the writers have shown us Hook and Emma are drawn to each other. I expect nothing less this time.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Hookian

[RedKeep]

I'd like time travel better than yet another AU because I just don't see the point of that. The show has always been repetitive and I know time travel has been done before as well, but there's new ground to be covered there if they don't just largely re-enact scenes from season 1 (or any other previous season) again. Whereas I can't think of any reason why we'd need an AU again since the characters should have learned to appreciate the life they actually have based on that Operation Mongoose finale. And that involved everyone of the main cast back then so no one has the excuse of not having been around for that lesson. ;)

[Souris]

I think Emma is being escorted to her fate by Hook & David. Another pic where she looks like she's holding David's hand.

[Curio]

Do these writers watch their own show? Why is Hook asking about Wookiees when he's already been introduced to that word twice? He first learned about it in the AU when he and Henry pulled off the Wookiee prisoner gag, and then Hook even mentioned it by name in the Season 5 premiere. Do they want me to believe Henry never elaborated or told Hook about that Star Wars reference not even one time in over 27 episodes? 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Curio

[PixiePaws1]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

I think Emma is being escorted to her fate by Hook & David. Another pic where she looks like shing David's hand

very curious why you get this vibe from this pic....and any idea what Colin has in his hand in the first one or is it just my terrible eyesight?