Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

His daddy sold his first future grandson in exchange for his farm. So, someone from the LoUS is coming to collect Do-Over. 

I wonder if Charming's dad didn't die but actually fled to LoUS.

[YaddaYadda]

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I wonder if Charming's dad didn't die but actually fled to LoUS.

The number of characters on this show parental issues is staggering. But that would be a really cool twist.

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

The number of characters on this show parental issues is staggering. But that would be a really cool twist.

I can imagine Hyde or someone from the LoUS arranging fake deaths for people so they could escape their problems. (For a price, of course.)

Edited September 2, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I wonder if Charming's dad didn't die but actually fled to LoUS.

I was thinking that this would be where Hook's terrible secret came in, but now that we know something about Nemo, maybe that's it, and we get something more interesting with Charming. Hook's terrible secret can cause issues with his friendship with David if it puts Emma in danger.

[RadioGirl27]

It seems they did more reshoots yesterday for 6x01, a scene with Jennifer and Colin.

This doesn't bode well for the quality of the premiere (and I really hope it's just the premiere) when they keep reshooting things.

[Curio]

It seems weird that they're doing this many reshoots. Have they ever done this many before? Maybe they're playing around with a "what if" timeline scenario, and the premiere episode features one big moment for each main character that they wish they could go a different direction. Maybe Emma wishes she could go back and shoot white magic at The Count's flying airship to prevent something else from happening, which was reshoot #1. And then reshoot #2 is Hook wishing he could go back and tell Emma the truth about Nemo in the first episode instead of waiting until episode 6, which is reshoot #2.

Or I'm just overthinking this entirely.

[sharky]

It would be one thing if maybe it was a reshoot here or there but this seems quite excessive. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Maybe the execs at Disney have decided its time to take some control over A&E and demand reshoots to make the premiere better. Or could this be them trying to control their Aladdin property like they did with Frozen?

[PixiePaws1]

35 minutes ago, Curio said:

It seems weird that thn ere doing this many reshoots.  Have they ever done this many before? Maybe they're playing around with a "what if" timeline scenario, and the premiere episode features one big moment for each main character that they wish they could go a different direction. Maybe Emma wishes she could go back and shoot white magic at The Count's flying airship to prevent something else from happening, which was reshoot #1. And then reshoot #2 is Hook wishing he could go back and tell Emma the truth about Nemo in the first episode instead of waiting until episode 6, which is reshoot #2.

Or I'm just overthinking this entirely.

Or maybe the work experience person hit the wrong button and....whoops! Reshoots required!

[mjgchick]

Or maybe ABC noped so many scenes because Adam and Eddy creativity all went to Dead Pf Summer. lol

[Rumsy4]

It's not like they can reshoot all the episodes they've filmed so far, even if Disney/abc is interfering. I wonder how cohesive the first few episodes are going to be, after episode 1 has been retooled!

[daxx]

If we see more reshoots for other episodes it could be a direction change. Otherwise it could just be one set up that didn't work.

[tri4335]

3 hours ago, Curio said:

It seems weird that they're doing this many reshoots. Have they ever done this many before? Maybe they're playing around with a "what if" timeline scenario, and the premiere episode features one big moment for each main character that they wish they could go a different direction. Maybe Emma wishes she could go back and shoot white magic at The Count's flying airship to prevent something else from happening, which was reshoot #1. And then reshoot #2 is Hook wishing he could go back and tell Emma the truth about Nemo in the first episode instead of waiting until episode 6, which is reshoot #2.

Or I'm just overthinking this entirely.

 

3 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Or maybe the work experience person hit the wrong button and....whoops! Reshoots required!

I would buy either of the above explanations.  It could be  some type of "What If" or even a time loop like that Star Trek TNG where the characters are reliving the same day with small variations until they can break free or that some technical problem happened with the first filming and here we are back filming the episode but its not a reshoot to change content just replacing it due to a loss.

[RadioGirl27]

This is what Adam has said about the reshoots

Quote

we've shoot stuff for episodes a week before airing. Sometimes it's about scheduling. When you can get to a location, etc

[Rumsy4]

It's not like Adam is going to admit if the abc bosses forced a direction change. 

[KingOfHearts]

I do wonder what effect the 22-episode format and the new ABC executive influence are having on the shooting schedule. They have less time to shoot the season overall now.

Edited September 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

34 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I do wonder what effect the 22-episode format and the new ABC executive influence are having on the shooting schedule. They have less time to shoot the season overall now.

How do they have less time? The season is still 22 episodes long just like the last 2 seasons, plus they gave them 2 extra episodes two seasons in a row. 

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

How do they have less time? The season is still 22 episodes long just like the last 2 seasons, plus they gave them 2 extra episodes two seasons in a row. 

They don't have the long winter break. I thought the point of having 2 arcs was to have more time for production so they wouldn't have to take so many breaks.

Edited September 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Kktjones]

So the new writer posted a photo on her twitter and you can see some text from the 6x08 outline. I can make out the first line, but not much else. Anyone here with better vision or the ability to sharpen the photo up?

The line I can read says "But for now, Belle's only concern is getting getting the <REDACTED> out of Storybrooke with her unborn son (?). Zelena waves the wand."

I forget, did we know her baby was a son?

Edited September 4, 2016 by Kktjones

[orza]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

They don't have the long winter break. I thought the point of having 2 arcs was to have more time for production so they wouldn't have to take so many breaks.

The point of the 3-month winter break was to eliminate the annoying pattern of a few new episodes then a break of one or two weeks the a couple more episodes then another short break and so on.  Regardless of when the episodes air the time available for production remains the same. Like all other shows that have to out crank out 22+ episodes a year, filming starts right after the July 4th holiday and goes to the beginning of April. Production for most everyone but the actors starts in June and goes right up until the finale airs for the people involved in post-production.

Edited September 3, 2016 by orza

[KAOS Agent]

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

I forget, did we know her baby was a son?

I think there may have been mentions of the baby as a boy, but I don't think it was definitive. That said, this baby is Bae 2.0, so I'd be very surprised if it was a girl.

I'm confused as to why they'd be doing reshoots so late into the schedule. That episode was filmed two months ago. It needs to be edited, scored and sent out/made available as screeners in two weeks' time. And they're just now doing reshoots on it? That seems really odd. I know reshoots are normal, but this is cutting it very close. Maybe they ran into issues when they were finalizing things for later episodes and realized the need for changes in the premiere? 

[mjgchick]

Yeah they are tryin. To give Rumple a second chance with Bae2.0 like they did with Snowing and the other Neal. That man shouldn't be near children but whatever.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I think there may have been mentions of the baby as a boy, but I don't think it was definitive. That said, this baby is Bae 2.0, so I'd be very surprised if it was a girl.

Rumple was looking for "his son" when he used the eyeball. But Hades later clarified that it was "his child".

Quote

Regardless of when the episodes air the time available for production remains the same. 

Why were the breaks so spotty then?

Edited September 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

7 hours ago, Kktjones said:

So the new writer posted a photo on her twitter and you can see some text from the 6x08 outline. I can make out the first line, but not much else. Anyone here with better vision or the ability to sharpen the photo up?

The line I can read says "But for now, Belle's only concern is getting getting the <REDACTED> out of Storybrooke with her unborn son (?). Zelena waves the wand."

I forget, did we know her baby was a son?

We didn't know, but I always assumed it would be a boy because of Baelfire.

She has gone back & cropped the photo so you can't the script anymore, but I got it before she did that. I sharpened it in Photoshop, and in the next scene, Violet walks into Granny's "still in her dress" and "with a corsage on her wrist." Also there was something "in/on the ceiling" but I couldn't get any further. So I guess there's a dance at some point? Maybe a school dance since Jasmine is apparently a teacher?

According to Adam, "next week, for ex, we're planning to shoot bits of 602,603,604,605,606. #normal"

He wrote a lot of tweets about being normal for them & other shows, but I think he is just covering/deflecting. I don't think shooting so much of eps already filmed is "normal" at all. We have NEVER seen the amount of reshoots that we've seen for 6x01 before. And we haven't seen such extensive belated filming, either. If that is actually "normal," no wonder the continuity is such a hot mess.

My guess is that they belatedly decided to flip it and make Jekyll the real baddie instead of Hyde. Jekyll filmed with the hero group in the woods during initial 6x01 filming; Hyde filmed with them in the reshoots. And then they had Jekyll chasing Belle & swordfighting with Hook in 6x04. That would likely mean getting rid of all the footage they shot in Steveston when Hyde was arrested, strangled Regina & tried to strangle Emma in the cell (which we just saw in the promo!). That would also mean they'd need to reshoot bits of subsequent eps, too.

They reshot Emma looking at her shaking hand & a solo scene with Rumple, both of which originally happened in Steveston that day. I wonder if they reshot the Emma dream of being stabbed? I think they might not have to do that since it was a dream & could take place anywhere, but maybe they did.

My God, the poor actors. I know I HATE having to redo stuff at work because somebody higher up changed their mind -- and that involves a LOT less work & time than what the actors are going through here.

I just want to shake the writers. How can they be this disorganized & change their story so much??? It's appalling & makes me table-flippy.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

Ugh...can Violet disappear, please? I don't know if i can sit through more of Henry's teen romance. 

24 minutes ago, Souris said:

My guess is that they belatedly decided to flip it and make Jekyll the real baddie instead of Hyde. Jekyll filmed with the hero group in the woods during initial 6x01 filming; Hyde filmed with them in the reshoots. And then they had Jekyll chasing Belle & swordfighting with Hook in 6x04. That would likely mean getting rid of all the footage they shot in Steveston when Hyde was arrested, strangled Regina & tried to strangle Emma in the cell (which we just saw in the promo!). That would also mean they'd need to reshoot bits of subsequent eps, too.

That's an interesting theory. It would be typical of the writers too. The Jekyll/Hyde story seems like a hot mess if the writers are changing direction five episodes into filming. I'm not super fazed about the reshoots though--A&E retcon stuff all the time. It's just more obvious to us this time because we follow filming spoilers.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Rumsy4

[sharky]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Why were the breaks so spotty then?

Do you mean when the show aired without an A or B season? Things got in the way, especially in January and February. Awards shows and Super Bowl are the big ones.

And yea that seems likes a lot of reshoots. Maybe the Hyde actor wasn't available until now so there's scenes with him they need to back fill episodes with. I just have to remind myself that I have faith in Channing Dungey after she saved Prince Charming from death. 

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, sharky said:

And yea that seems likes a lot of reshoots. Maybe the Hyde actor wasn't available until now so there's scenes with him they need to back fill episodes with. I just have to remind myself that I have faith in Channing Dungey after she saved Prince Charming from death. 

That wouldn't be a reshoot if they were merely waiting for Witver to become available. It makes no scence to shoot a scene knowing they'd have to throw it out once an actor became available. Besides, Witver has been on set all along, hasn't he?

Yeah--let's trust Dungey. It's A&E we need to worry about. hehe Though we don't really know who called for reshoots.

[YaddaYadda]

There's nothing that says they're reshooting though. I mean on Thursday they were filming at the CS house, but it looked like they were doing exteriors, so that wouldn't exactly be a reshoot as much as it would be an insert, I guess.

I think everyone has sort of run with the whole "they're possibly rewriting the episodes" and that's why they're reshooting. Maybe they found a continuity issue which they needed to correct which would be kind of a miracle if that happened.

There's also the fact that they're dealing with two Regina's this season. So there is that to take into consideration.

When they shot 6x03 by the Cannery, they called them "alternate scenes".  So maybe that's what it is? 

There's also location availability. Vancouver has a lot of productions going all at once. Like Riverview where they filmed the scenes in the asylum last season, Supernatural uses that place a lot, along with a bunch of other shows. Steveston had another show shooting there a week ago. So I'm assuming there's a lot of logistics that go into all of this, and they seem to do the location scouting a few days before they start shooting the episode. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

I just think that Adam is being too defensive with this and that's why some people (myself included) are suspicious. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

That's an interesting theory. It would be typical of the writers too. The Jekyll/Hyde story seems like a hot mess if the writers are changing direction five episodes into filming. I'm not super fazed about the reshoots though--A&E retcon stuff all the time. It's just more obvious to us this time because we follow filming spoilers.

Their reasoning is probably that they'd rather keep Hyde as a regular because he has more gravitas. (Or better potential to be a love interest for Regina.) Also, having poor, meek Jekyll turning out to be a villain is your typical A&E shocking!twist.

[YaddaYadda]

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Their reasoning is probably that they'd rather keep Hyde as a regular because he has more gravitas. (Or better potential to be a love interest for Regina.) Also, having poor, meek Jekyll turning out to be a villain is your typical A&E shocking!twist.

It's "interesting" that the guy who took the bad out of himself might turn out to be the villain, while Regina who took out the bad out of herself will still be poor victim, misunderstood Regina. 

Can't having it both ways, which of course means they will be having it both ways.

I'm really hoping that Jekyll doing whatever he's doing on the JR is him being controlled by Rumple or someone else. 

Also, it seems confirmed that the RB baby is going to be a boy which Bae 2.0.

Edited September 4, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Amerilla]

21 hours ago, Kktjones said:

 

So the new writer posted a photo on her twitter and you can see some text from the 6x08 outline. I can make out the first line, but not much else. Anyone here with better vision or the ability to sharpen the photo up?

The line I can read says "But for now, Belle's only concern is getting getting the <REDACTED> out of Storybrooke with her unborn son (?). Zelena waves the wand."

I forget, did we know her baby was a son?

 

FWIW, Adam tweeted back to a Rumbelle fan than tweeted him about it that, while he doesn't usually comment on spoilers, there is no scene between Belle and Zelena. So, either the writer photo-ed a script-snip that's since been snipped, or Adam is fibbing. The details may change, but it's likely that storyline will be heavy on the *drama* of Belle trying to get Fetus-Stiltskin the hell outta Dodge. 

I don't think we knew it was a son in story, and that's another thing pissing off the Rumbelle ranks: a boy, as we note, carries more than a whiff of Bae 2.0, whereas a girl would be a Rumbelle-only thing. As more and more spoilers come out, they are starting to understand that S6 is going to be the same joyless slog towards an inevitably unsatisfying ending that S4 and 5 were.

[Shanna Marie]

14 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Ugh...can Violet disappear, please? I don't know if i can sit through more of Henry's teen romance. 

They do remember that he's only 13 (at most, and even that's a stretch that requires him to have aged more than the time jumps would likely warrant, though that's the last age they gave for him), right? Maybe I'm old and a prude, but it's a bit creepy for a 13-year-old to be having a romance that involves kissing on the mouth and actual one-on-one dates. If they're doing prom/homecoming, something a big enough deal for a corsage, that gets even worse.

[YaddaYadda]

Well if Adam is lying, I'd say don't go on Twitter after that episode airs? 

1 hour ago, Amerilla said:

I don't think we knew it was a son in story, and that's another thing pissing off the Rumbelle ranks: a boy, as we note, carries more than a whiff of Bae 2.0, whereas a girl would be a Rumbelle-only thing. As more and more spoilers come out, they are starting to understand that S6 is going to be the same joyless slog towards an inevitably unsatisfying ending that S4 and 5 were.

The script says "show me who I seek." So he doesn't say show me Neal/Bae because the crystal ball would likely have shown him nothing, or shown him Neal's grave and he would have found out he moved on that way. And Hades talks about "child". 

That being said, I totally see where RBers are coming from that a boy would reek of Do Over. Considering how this pairing has been going since the tail end of season 3, there's nothing shocking about that.

And to top it off, Belle seems to have gone to Hook for help and holed up on the JR. So that's what? 2 wives that have gone to him in their moment of need? I can't pretend I don't see the irony in all of this. It's like they wanna keep the feud between Rumple and Hook going, but don't know how to go about it at this point? This is such a replay of season 2. All I see are shades of 2x04 and the Tiny episode with all those confrontations.

Edited September 4, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

And to top it off, Belle seems to have gone to Hook for help and holed up on the JR. So that's what? 2 wives that have gone to him in their moment of need? I can't pretend I don't see the irony in all of this. It's like they wanna keep the feud between Rumple and Hook going, but don't know how to go about it at this point?

We've been talking about this some in the Relationships thread, and the weird thing is that they haven't (so far) acknowledged that Rumple's wives keep ending up turning to Hook. They missed the ball entirely on that in 4B, when they had Rumple impersonating Hook to get the dagger from Belle and get her to talk to him about Will, which indicates that Rumple was aware that Belle and Hook were friends, but with no sense of paranoia or anger that this was yet another wife getting close to Hook. You'd think Rumple would have been keenly aware of that. I wonder if it will come up this season if she's moved on to Hook's ship -- then it's not just that Rumple's wives end up turning to Hook when their marriages with Rumple go bad, but they end up on the Jolly Roger.

[Souris]

9 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

There's nothing that says they're reshooting though. I mean on Thursday they were filming at the CS house, but it looked like they were doing exteriors, so that wouldn't exactly be a reshoot as much as it would be an insert, I guess.

The costuming says reshoots. Lots of filming in the woods with their 6x01 outfits with the same group that already filmed in the woods for that ep, with Hyde this time instead of Jekyll. And 6x05 is taking much longer to film than usual because of filming for other eps. Something different is going on, regardless of what Adam is saying.

[YaddaYadda]

I get it about the costumes. All I'm saying is that they may not necessarily all be reshot scenes as much as scenes they are inserting. 

There was a scene that Bobby filmed at night on his own on the Lady Washington when they were shooting 6x04, and the set stalkers were told that it was for episode 6x02, so that's not a reshot, it's an insert since Bobby was nowhere near the actual ship during the filming of 6x02. I think everyone is just running with the idea that they are reshooting stuff and that might not be 100% accurate.

[retrograde]

7 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

They do remember that he's only 13 (at most, and even that's a stretch that requires him to have aged more than the time jumps would likely warrant, though that's the last age they gave for him), right? Maybe I'm old and a prude, but it's a bit creepy for a 13-year-old to be having a romance that involves kissing on the mouth and actual one-on-one dates. If they're doing prom/homecoming, something a big enough deal for a corsage, that gets even worse.

13 year olds having one-on-one dates and kissing on the mouth seems pretty normal and innocent to me. There were quite a few 13-year-olds doing a lot more than that when I was in high school.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm pretty sure we're supposed to think that Henry is older than 13. I wish they had sent back the people from Camelot to during 5x11 so that I wouldn't be subjected to Henry being in a relationship. Maybe the EQ will think out the herd and kill her.

Edited September 5, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

All those "I'm not a little kid anymore" whining Henry did last yr better mean he's suppose to be older. Plus he drove Regina's car on his own so he should at least be 14/15 at this point. 

God I could careless about who Henry's dating. I don't think the actors have chemistry at all. I've seen better on the Disney Channel...well just Zendaya and her co-stars. 

Belle has gone to Hook for help and now Zelena? Slay, Belle.

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, mjgchick said:

All those "I'm not a little kid anymore" whining Henry did last yr better mean he's suppose to be older. Plus he drove Regina's car on his own so he should at least be 14/15 at this point. 

Except not enough time has passed. We're not really three years from the pilot, when he was ten. He apparently turned 11 sometime between the pilot and mid-season 2, then there was the missing year. During 3B, Regina said he was 12. Only about 6 months at most has passed since then (2 weeks for 4A, 6 weeks between 4A and 4B, a few weeks for 4B, maybe 2 months total for 5A -- 6 weeks in Camelot and then two more back in Storybrooke, then however long they were in the Underworld in 5B). How can Henry have aged up to 15 from 12 in that time when Snowflake, who was born within days of Regina saying Henry was 12, is still not even sitting up on his own? I don't think the writers even think about what age Henry is. Half the time they write him as a teenager who's about the same age as the actor. Half the time they write him like he's still the cute kid from season one. The character's actual age in the story timeline is in-between the two extremes. He's barely a teen who's dating like he's 15-16 but talking and acting like he's 10.

[orza]

It doesn't matter that Henry's age and Jared's age don't line up in the show timeline. Most viewers know that and don't care. It happens on TV and people accept that a juvenile character is as old as the actor looks. It's not important to the story they are telling whether Henry is 12 or 14. But it makes business sense to have Henry a bit older since he is the pov character for young teens watching the show. The show is popular with teenage girls so letting Henry be a bit older and have a girlfriend gives those girls a couple to ship.

The alternative would be to recast Henry each season. Jared and Henry have their fans. It would he just as poorly received as recasting Snow or Emma each season. Long time jumps just to accommodate Jared's growth are also impractical and clearly that is not what abc wants for its show or it would be happening.

Season 1 Henry acted like a 10-year-old but not Season 5 Henry. I find Henry is a bit more mature than many  teenage boys. It is also totally normal for 13-years-olds to date and kiss and it is not at all creepy. Millions of middle schoolers can attest to that.

Edited September 5, 2016 by orza

[InsertWordHere]

56 minutes ago, orza said:

The alternative would be to recast Henry each season.

The alternative would be simply to allow some time to pass in the show. Not everything has to be piled on day after day. Allow things to breathe. It's really not hard. Recasting Henry is absolutely not necessary when all they need to do is show a clear passage of time. We don't even need another huge timejump, just make it clear seasons are taking place over the course of months, not weeks. 

[tri4335]

3 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

The alternative would be simply to allow some time to pass in the show. Not everything has to be piled on day after day. Allow things to breathe. It's really not hard. Recasting Henry is absolutely not necessary when all they need to do is show a clear passage of time. We don't even need another huge timejump, just make it clear seasons are taking place over the course of months, not weeks. 

Exactly! I don't know why they had certain events only take one week when they easily could've taken months and moved time along.

[mjgchick]

Yeah, they really should've had a year gab between S4 and 5 again at least. But nope they had to have their cliffhanger which I guess worked because people were praising them for turning their protagonist into an antagonist and then they A&E it up and we got S5. Then they killed Hook but instead of having Emma save him last minute before 5A ended they just needed a reason to go to hell. 5B ended and we are stuck with a cliffhanger even Stevie Wonder saw coming so Henry won't have time to age after this because they won't cut the seasons half story arcs.

 

ETA: why did they not do a year jump between S1 and 2 when the only cliffhanger was really that magic was back? The real cliffhanger was Emma and Snow falling in that hat for S2 to be honest.

Edited September 5, 2016 by mjgchick

[tri4335]

So ever since the Emma "learning something about the Savior mythology" spoiler I've been kicking around a new crack theory that was solidified after re-watching Unbreakable this weekend.  My crack theory is that we will find out that since Emma was destined to be born the Savior this resulted in Regina becoming the Evil Queen. Because you can't be the savior unless people need to be saved thus someone had to evil!  Therefore, Emma is directly responsible for all of Regina's bad choices. If Emma wasn't the savior then Regina would've remained a good person and none of the evil acts she committed would've happened if it wasn't for those pesky White/Charmings!

[daxx]

Except Emma was born after Regina decided to go down the evil path. More likely Emma was born the savior because of Regina's turn to evil.

[sharky]

Whoa, that crack theory is indeed crack. That being said, it is possible if you base it on the idea of choice vs. fate. For example, if you want to get religious about it, the Immaculate Conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary, not Jesus (even Catholics get that wrong). She was conceived to be pure since she was destined to be the mother of Jesus. So you could turn that around and say Regina was conceived by Cora to be evil, that the fates or fairies or whatever deemed her to have a life where she would cast the dark curse that would need a savior to break it. So she was conceived with darkness by the fates knowing that in the future there would be a savior to balance it out. 

That could end up being really interesting if Emma grapples with the idea that she never had a choice to be the savior, that fate had been set before she was even born and therefore she had an inevitable fate as a savior that she can't change.

[tennisgurl]

The idea of Emma dealing with being predestined to be the Savior could also lead to the meta narrative that this show has always skirted around, that Emma is the Hero of a story, who is doing what the Story commands her to. Unlikely to go in that direction, but it could be interesting to consider. 

I do not mind the idea of Henry getting a girlfriend of Henry getting a girlfriend or a first kiss. I had my first boyfriend at 13, and we had an awkward kiss and held awkward hands, and it was all very innocent and cute, and many of my friends had similar experiences. I am totally ok with Henry growing up. But they are going to have to work a lot harder than they did last season on making that interesting. Violet is nice enough, but is not a super interesting character, and Henry...tends to seem younger than he actually is. For Gods sake, last season he stood up in the middle of NYC and yelled about how everyone needs to believe in fairies and clap to bring them back to life (basically)! Show him being a teenager, and maybe make his story a bit more interesting, then I can get behind it. Its just hard to contrast super villains and fiction run amuk with puppy love between two of the most boring characters on your show. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by tennisgurl

[Curio]

Taking my thoughts about Henry/Violet to the Henry thread.

[tri4335]

14 hours ago, daxx said:

Except Emma was born after Regina decided to go down the evil path. More likely Emma was born the savior because of Regina's turn to evil.

 

5 hours ago, sharky said:

Whoa, that crack theory is indeed crack. That being said, it is possible if you base it on the idea of choice vs. fate. For example, if you want to get religious about it, the Immaculate Conception is the conception of the Virgin Mary, not Jesus (even Catholics get that wrong). She was conceived to be pure since she was destined to be the mother of Jesus. So you could turn that around and say Regina was conceived by Cora to be evil, that the fates or fairies or whatever deemed her to have a life where she would cast the dark curse that would need a savior to break it. So she was conceived with darkness by the fates knowing that in the future there would be a savior to balance it out. 

That could end up being really interesting if Emma grapples with the idea that she never had a choice to be the savior, that fate had been set before she was even born and therefore she had an inevitable fate as a savior that she can't change.

Yes it is indeed crack! My theory is based on Rumple knowing hundreds of years before there would be a savior and once that was out in the "universe" fate had to dictate there would be an evil.  Fate then looked to find someone to hold this mantle of evil and landed on Regina and made her be evil.  It ties into their love of Star Wars and the concept of a "force" of both light/dark existing.  We always ask the questions: how was Regina able to do light magic, have a TLK without her heart? Well her "true" self was to be "good" then she would have those underlining qualities. It was having to carry this mantle of being the evil one that made her do bad things and why she could never get her Happy Ending and why nothing is her fault. Regina is their Darth Vader and the one who is destined to bring balance between good/evil.