Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[scenicbyway]

It's not going to be a TLK that saves Hook. It's got to be Emma facing her fear of losing him that saves him. Don't we have a spoiler of her carrying around his soul in Storybrooke though?

From what Hades has said, it takes a TLK to restart a heart, so who knows which way they'll go.

[Curio]

“Firebird” — Hades turns to the heroes to ask for help with getting Zelena back from Rumplestiltskin and Peter Pan. In return, he offers to take all their names off their tombstones. However, when Hook is still unable to leave, he and Emma must journey into the depths of the Underworld. Meanwhile, Cruella De Vil is determined to keep the heroes trapped in the Underworld. In flashbacks, Emma searches for answers about her family and makes an unexpected friendship on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, MAY 1 (8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT), on the ABC Television Network.

 

This should have been the two-part episode, not the finale.

[SiobhanJW]

It's not going to be a TLK that saves Hook. It's got to be Emma facing her fear of losing him that saves him. Don't we have a spoiler of her carrying around his soul in Storybrooke though?

From what Hades has said, it takes a TLK to restart a heart, so who knows which way they'll go.

Agree I think it will be facing her fear of losing him that saves him, but it will be the fact that they are TL will get them out of the maze or wherever they are. It is possible that the scale is at the end of their journey. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[Rumsy4]

The press release for the episode looks very interesting. Good to see Hades turning to the Nevengers for help. I'm also happy Cruella hasn't given up yet. I do like having her around in this arc.

Emma's flashback seems promising as well.

[InsertWordHere]

 

Geoff Gustafson as Stealthy

Yay! But with Snow and the dwarves not present, who is he going to interact with? David? Will we find out Stealthy did something horrible to Sleepy and that's his unfinished business?

 

ETA: It seems like they rescue Zelena at the beginning of the episode before they go on their quest. Then Cruella attacks or messes with the others while they're waiting for Emma and Hook.

Edited April 25, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[SiobhanJW]

Quite the bout of Spoilery Photos they released. But I thought the one of Emma holding Killian's Hook was adorable. Lol. 

[RadioGirl27]

After looking at the promo pics, either the confrontation with Rumple and Pan lasts ten seconds or it's the TL test what lasts ten seconds.

 

I feel this way, too. There may be some sort of nebulous TL moment or something, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be nearly as epic and wonderful as everybody has firmly assumed it will be. This show NEVER meets the expectations that people have when it comes to payoff. So I doubt this will be any different.

Yeah, with this show I learnt a long time ago to have the lowest expectations.

[Rumsy4]

It looks like the Nevengers managed to rescue Zelena from Pan & Rumple. I wonder how, and what they did to Rumple (these people should never have stopped watching their backs where Rumple is concerned). Pan most likely either ends up in the Lost souls River or falls in the Fire. I think Cruella's fate is likely to be the similar. 

 

What's in the bag Emma is holding? Hades gives it to her. Maybe it holds the feather to balance the Scales.

[Hookian]

I'm just ready for CS to be confirmed TL.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hookian

[YaddaYadda]

Can I just say how disappointed I am in how Hades turned out to be?

 

I was expecting someone dangerous. Instead, from episode 5x16 on, he's been all about Zelena. I don't know, seeing him in the promo stills needing the help of the Nevengers to go up against Pan (who is dead) and Rumple over whom he is holding his child's life is all very meh. Can't wait to see the last of him.

[Mathius]

After looking at the promo pics, either the confrontation with Rumple and Pan lasts ten seconds or it's the TL test what lasts ten seconds.

 

 

I'm thinking more that the confrontation lasts the first half (or first two acts at most), while the TL test is the second half.

 

I was expecting someone dangerous. Instead, from episode 5x16 on, he's been all about Zelena. I don't know, seeing him in the promo stills needing the help of the Nevengers to go up against Pan (who is dead) and Rumple over whom he is holding his child's life is all very meh. Can't wait to see the last of him.

 

Disagree entirely, being "all about Zelena" (which he isn't really, but she is a big thing for him) doesn't make him any less dangerous.  The man successfully played Rumple, then he played Rumple, Belle AND Gaston all at once, and he screwed the heroes over by doing things like destroying their boat, putting their names on gravestones, and liquefying Auntie Em then using it as a way to demotivate everyone around him.  He's been as dangerous as he possibly can be given his limitation of not being able to harm the living, and if he gets his heart working again that limitation won't exist anymore. 

 

As for why he needs the Nevengers help, it's less because of Pan than it is because of Rumple: Rumple is a living soul that Hades cannot harm, the baby contract means nothing now that Belle is under the sleeping curse, AND if Rumple kills Zelena then a TLK between her and Hades would never work.  Relying on the Nevengers is the best he can do at this point.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Mathius

[Serena]

I think whatever Emma does to get Hook's heart beating again has the unintended consequence of getting Hades' heart to beat as well, leading to him following them to SB.

[Mathius]

We've not seen Greg Germann filming for SB, so I doubt it. He probably reconciles with Zeus and stays on Mt. Olympus.

[YaddaYadda]

So Hades only needs TLK to get his heart restarted, but Hook has to run True Love's obstacle course to come back to the living. That seems fair with TS/TW. One man is a cursed god and the other is a former Dark One who was killed.

 

Captain Swan got nothing for free, ever. 

 

Do we have any word of any of the guests who were sent to the River of Lost Souls being in 5X20 or 5X21? I mean other than Josh Dallas? Because Milah and Auntie Em deserve better.

 

I think we're going to get a CGI of the souls moving on instead of having Milah, Gaston, Auntie Em come back for 30 seconds cameos. I'm disappointed Hook never got his scene with Milah.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yay for Stealthy! Too bad Snow left, I would have liked that reunion and then Snow could touch bases with Grumpy once back home...but then again they'd probably just offscreen that. Or there is the fact that Snow's and Grumpy's formerly sweet relationship has been pretty much axed.

I predict that all the CS drama will be inhibited by poor CGI of some sort. That way it can parallel Tallahassee's poor CGI.

:P

As for the one couple who maybe won't make it...it could be OQ or Zades imo. We don't seem to see Hades in Storybrooke, so either he dies, moved on or stays in the UW. I could see him and Zelena parting on good terms, though.

I feel like the OQ trouble will take place when they're back in Storybrooke (probably dealing with Arthur).

I have my fingers crossed that after creating a whole half season's worth of episodes in between, that they haven't forgotten about Guinevere being magically sanded and just send her back all willynilly.

Edited April 25, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Notwisconsin]

It would be nice to see Pope John XX (the one who was numerically skipped) show up and inform Hades that he's not a god anymore as Christianity has taken over or something like that.

[mjgchick]

I'm assuming Hook and Emma fails but then they realize she has to let him go. It all started with her not being able to let him go so she'll finally do it and then tada they pass. I don't know what else people should expect. I think that's epic on Emma learning her lesson then they both pass through whatever it is they are suppose to pass I guess. No matter what Hook and Emma are confirmed True Love by the end of the season. Everyone gets True Loves kiss but for whatever reason Emma has to go through loopholes to get her happy ending. Same with Hook.

 

I'm more hopeful just because Adam and Eddy aren't writing this episode if I'm being honest. Jane wrote Tallahassee and that turned out great now she gets to write another Emma backstory where her and Hook are on an adventure alone at that. In the first one Emma failed by not trusting Hook this time she'll fail again but get it right in the end. lol

 

Zelena's excitement is killing me. lol

Edited April 25, 2016 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

I'm assuming Hook and Emma fails but then they realize she has to let him go. It all started with her not being able to let him go so she'll finally do it and then tada they pass.

 

I think that's 100% what will happen. I think it's about fixing whatever happened between them in 5A as well. 

 

If it gives me the conversations that I want, I say bring it. This is the best time to clear the air completely, so give me all the talks I'm dying to hear.

[pezgirl7]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up for the next episode, but what I don't understand about the theory being discussed here is, how does Emma having to give up Hook prove true love?

 

Watching the promo, I was hoping Hook's "You should have let me go" is in response to Emma not leaving Hook down in the tunnels. Like something happens where Emma could have left him behind, while saving herself, but she decides to stay with him, even if it dooms them both. Yea I know, I'm being too optimistic.

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, I'm sure they are going to fail the test, and I find it unnecessary angst and a bit insulting. It would be the forth/fifth time they fail the TL confirmation. I don't care if it later works, it would be ridiculous.

 

And, really, I don't know which show are you all watching. Since when does Once do meaningful conversation between characters?

[Rumsy4]

I doubt we're going to get any in-depth conversations about all that happened in 5A. But I do think we'll get something significant. If Emma's issue is letting Killian go, what is his? Believing in his self-worth? Fighting for their future?

I hope Emma's relationship with her mentor in the flashback lasts for more than a few hours, but given the precedent in this arc, I'm not too hopeful. I'm still on the fence about Cleo being a fairy tale character. The present day stuff seems packed even without Emma running into Cleo in Underbrooke.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

I didn't even think of Emma running into her in the underworld. If she's in the Underworld chances are she'll be a fairytale character. Emma can never have a normal friend from our world. I wonder if she tells Emma she was wrong to give her the advice of never letting anyone in or something.

[YaddaYadda]

Watching the promo, I was hoping Hook's "You should have let me go" is in response to Emma not leaving Hook down in the tunnels.

 

I thought it might have to do with 5x08 when he asked her the first time to let him go, and she turned him into the Dark One instead. Her words were that she wasn't going to lose him, and that her having a future without him was not enough for her. 

 

 

 

I doubt we're going to get any in-depth conversations about all that happened in 5A.

You are ruining it for me!

 

I don't know about an in-depth conversation, but I'm assuming they'll be talking about some things, like the future. If they think that this is it for him, and for them, that this is over, I've seen enough shows with this trope where it becomes about the stuff they will miss out on and regrets (of course normal shows also have their characters have sex for old time's sake, but this is Once).

 

They're starting with rescuing Zelena before they go anywhere.

 

We'll see what happens. 

 

I have hope that it won't be a dud. I'm sure it won't be a dud. Plus this is the episode before they come back to Storybrooke, so they need to resolve some things with CS.

 

The wording about Cleo is interesting. They said "an unexpected friendship." Why? Is it because she could easily pass for Emma's mother in the flashbacks? I don't understand how or where that day scene with Emma in the blue hoodie fits into the whole thing.

Edited April 25, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Man Emma is going to be devastated when she realizes she can't find her parents because someone was so petty and decided to curse them.

[YaddaYadda]

Man Emma is going to be devastated when she realizes she can't find her parents because someone was so petty and decided to curse them.

I think this is going to be more about what Neal and August did.

 

They sent her to jail when they could have told her exactly where her parents were. I know Emma is a massive non believer. But she comes out of jail and is looking for her parents while dumb and dumber had the answers she needed.

Edited April 25, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

I'm assuming in the past, Emma struggles to say goodbye to Cleo and her death is what causes Emma to build her walls sky high for the next decade, and that's somehow going to mirror having to say goodbye to Killian in the Underworld? I'm struggling to see how they're going to do a proper parallel here because the two situations are totally different.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Curio

[chrisvee]

I don't understand why Emma has to 'learn' to let go of Killian while Snow gets to split her heart with Charms. Arbitrary rules. And Emma did let him go last season it was only after she realized Rumple rendered the sacrifice moot that she decided to make like a Charming and find him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm assuming in the past, Emma struggles to say goodbye to Cleo and her death is what causes Emma to build her walls sky high for the next decade, and that's somehow going to mirror having to say goodbye to Killian in the Underworld?

Because that's what we need - more reasons for Emma to have walls.

 

 

And Emma did let him go last season it was only after she realized Rumple rendered the sacrifice moot that she decided to make like a Charming and find him.

I'm not complaining about getting payoff for 5A, but this. Emma already learned to let him go. She wasn't thinking, "Oh, I don't mind killing him. I'll just go to the Underworld and get him back!" Her idea to go to the Underworld didn't come until later.

 

It's so weird to get an Emma centric in a climactic episode of an arc that's been so Emma-lite.

Edited April 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Is Emma and Killian being true love going to get Milah and Gaston out of that damn goop because I need that for those two.

[mjgchick]

Didn't his idiot son force him out? The only good thing that families done for Emma was give her Henry and Killian.

[Souris]

Not never, the season 3 finale was far and above any expectations I had.

  

It was awesome, but it wasn't really payoff for something big they'd set up. When they set something up with clear expectations, they consistently fail to deliver.

We've not seen Greg Germann filming for SB, so I doubt it. He probably reconciles with Zeus and stays on Mt. Olympus.

Somebody posted a BTS pic of Hades/GG's trailer with his name on it during ep 21 filming after they were back in SB.

[daxx]

It was payoff for the setup of Emma not believing Storybrooke was home in my opinion. She'd been all NY, NY all arc. The scene in Rumples vault was great payoff as well as her acceptance of her parents and love.

[Rumsy4]

From the episode stills, it looks like the Nevengers manage to rescue Zelena from the clutches of Rumple and Pan. So, I think it is safe to assume that Rumple did not get out of his contract with Hades. What if that is the reason for Rumple going to the Lw/oM at the end of the season? Presumably, Hades would have no power in the Real World. So, he takes Belle (still under the Sleeping Curse, perhaps) and goes to New York until he can figure out another way to get out of the contract, and wake Belle.

[Souris]

Found the pic with the trailer that says Hades: https://twitter.com/leafladygreens/status/707385502815498245

[Curio]

There should be more to this "test" than Emma learning to let go. Good grief. She's had the dude die on her three times?

 

Yeah, it really makes no sense to me. I'm hoping there's some other conclusion to this test than "Emma has to let go for real, no seriously, not joking this time" because what kind of terrible lesson is that? That Emma's life is so screwed up that she constantly has to say goodbye to the people she loves, so properly letting Killian go this one particular time without any other strings attached gets rewarded with a True Love stamp? Come on Emma, learn to say goodbye and mean it! You didn't mean it with Cleo, so you better mean it now! There's plenty of other fish in the sea who will probably die on you, too! No thank you. If you're truly willing to let someone go for real, that means you've officially accepted you can live your life without that person, which seems to be the opposite of True Love.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Curio

[mjgchick]

What's worse is Killian's literally the only person other than Henry to not betray her or make her feel like she's not wanted. Jesus.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe it's the cheesy Hallmark message of "If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you... etc. etc." (I can't even finish typing it... lol). 

 

I think the key to Emma letting go is that Hook still doesn't seem convinced she should have come for him. It's not very romantic if he keeps saying she should have let him go. It's already sort of rubbing me the wrong way. Emma had this one guy who was fighting tooth and nail for their future together, and now he suddenly wants to just move on. I hope the episode makes it clear that Hook wants to come back, and not just becasue Emma is desperate to have him back.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a housekeeping note - the site will be down tomorrow for most of the day (here's the link) for a forum upgrade. Dave tells where to go to keep track of what's happening there, so follow those, and enjoy some down time! I will be not putting away laundry, as I never do.

 

 

And it will all be okay, promise!

[Dianthus]

Rumsy4, on 25 Apr 2016 - 2:34 PM, said:

I doubt we're going to get any in-depth conversations about all that happened in 5A. But I do think we'll get something significant. If Emma's issue is letting Killian go, what is his? Believing in his self-worth? Fighting for their future?

I hope Emma's relationship with her mentor in the flashback lasts for more than a few hours, but given the precedent in this arc, I'm not too hopeful. I'm still on the fence about Cleo being a fairy tale character. The present day stuff seems packed even without Emma running into Cleo in Underbrooke.

I thought Killian had that all figured out by the end of The Brothers Jones. He's no longer holding himself to some impossible standard and he already reaffirmed his commitment to Emma and their future.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Just a housekeeping note - the site will be down tomorrow for most of the day (here's the link) for a forum upgrade. Dave tells where to go to keep track of what's happening there, so follow those, and enjoy some down time! I will be not putting away laundry, as I never do.

Little did we know, the biggest, juiciest spoilers of 6A would be coming out that very day. ;)

Edited April 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Something that bothers me about this TL test is that it seems that it's not about CS as a couple but just about Emma as an individual. Every speculation I've seen (here, in tumblr) is the same: Emma has to learn to give up and she would be rewarded with the hot pirate. And, yeah, I know, she is the protagonist and he is just a supporting character, but a couple is made by two people. Maybe they should have made this only a test for Emma and not a couple test.

Edited April 26, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

It is possible that it's a Gift of the Magi kind of test, where each has to be willing to sacrifice him/herself for the other. So if they think only one can get out, he tells her to go while he stays, and she wants him to go while she stays, and the fact that they were both willing to put the other first means they pass the test. Or something like that. I can't imagine that the test of true love would be your willingness to let that person go. That whole "if you love something, set it free" thing is about things you hold onto so tightly that you can't tell if it's meant to be or if they want to be with you. It's about giving someone the freedom to choose to be with you, which makes their being with you more meaningful. We already know that, given the choice, Hook would choose to be with Emma. He's been free from her, and he gave up everything he owned to reach her again. She doesn't need to let him go in order to have him.

 

It already kind of looks, based on the episode description and spoiler photos, like Hades just sends everyone back, but he can't just send Hook back because he's dead, and Emma chooses to stay with Hook to find the other way out where he can come with her. That seems like it would be an odd setup for a "you have to let him go" test. If she had to let him go, then she'd have left with the others.

 

Another possibility is that there will be an Orpheus and Eurydice test, where she has to have faith that whatever they've done is working and that he's behind her on the way out, and if she looks back to make sure he's there, she loses him. That might be a kind of letting go.

[Scovies]

I've gotta say, I'll be baffled if the test is Emma "learning to let go." Isn't that exactly what she did when she, y'know, killed Killian at his request? She only went to the UW after she learned Rumple had screwed them all over.

[maryle]

That silly but I am use to read all the comments on this site when I have nothing to do.

So I missed it yesterday!

 I want to thanks everybody who make this site what it is now!

For once I do not want calme down my excitment for the up coming episode because for one 

I was sure before the promo it was not à CS episode but a Emmas'one and I was already happy to know more about her bailbond debut adding the CS stuff is the icing on the cake.

The TL confirmation in any formation is the cherry on top.

[Shanna Marie]

Quote

I've gotta say, I'll be baffled if the test is Emma "learning to let go." Isn't that exactly what she did when she, y'know, killed Killian at his request? 

The way I can possibly see that working is if she learns to let it really be his choice -- if, say, the bridge to heaven appears, and we can see Milah (freed from the River of Souls), Liam, and Neal standing on the other end, waiting for him, and she can tell Hook is torn, and she makes it clear that it's totally his choice whether to go on to them or come back to life with her, with no guilt, no "but I risked everything to come after you." Killing him was doing the thing that had to be done, and his earlier reluctance was about him not feeling worthy. But if he knows he can come back, and he knows that he can move on, and if out of love for him she lets him make his own choice, with the knowledge that she will love and support him no matter what he chooses, then that might be a test of True Love.

[Dianthus]

Only with this show could there be even the slightest hint of doubt that CS is True Love. I don't need them to tell me what I already know. Validation would be nice, but my mind is already made up, regardless of whatever they throw at us.

[YaddaYadda]

I've been wondering about one thing.

If Hades is set to go to Storybrooke, does that mean Zelena gives him the kiss he's been coveting, or does he manage to turn whatever happens under the library between Captain Swan to his advantage, like siphon whatever magic that may come from their quest (since true love is magic and all) onto himself the same way Rumple siphoned the magic from Excalibur in 5x11?

Because I'm pretty sure Hades isn't getting a TLK from Zelena.

Plus we know Zeus is coming in 5x21, and that's probably because the curse he placed on Hades no longer applies.

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I've been wondering about one thing.

If Hades is set to go to Storybrooke, does that mean Zelena gives him the kiss he's been coveting, or does he manage to turn whatever happens under the library between Captain Swan to his advantage, like siphon whatever magic that may come from their quest (since true love is magic and all) onto himself the same way Rumple siphoned the magic from Excalibur in 5x11?

I was going to say that this would be a repeat of 5x11 and that a competent writer wouldn't repeat a plot point so soon, but then I remembered that we are talking about A&E, so, yeah, Hades is totally going to play Emma and Hook and use whatever they do to save himself and leave Hook stuck in the UW.

There is a speculation going around Tumblr that Zeus is going to be the one that in the end saves Hook and brings him back to life. Personally if it's not Emma who saves Hook but a random guy we are going to see once (even if that random guy is the father of Gods), I would be really mad. After everything that have happened this season both Emma and Hook (and we as fans) deserve more than that. And it would make all this half season pointless, because even if Hook comes back in the end (and we know he does) Emma, the supposed hero of the show, would have failed not once but twice in saving him and everyone would have put their lifes in danger for nothing (well, except Regina who has seen her parents one last time and made amends with them).

Edited April 27, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[InsertWordHere]

44 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

45 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

There is a speculation going around Tumblr that Zeus is going to be the one that in the end saves Hook and brings him back to life. Personally if it's not Emma who saves Hook but a random guy we are going to see once (even if that random guy is the father of Gods), I would be really mad.

Talk about a real Deus ex machina. (Please ignore this quote box I can't seem to remove)

[Hookian]

I kind of have that same theory.

Emma and Killian will be confirmed TL but Hades screws them over and uses whatever they got back on himself and leaves Hook stuck in the UW. It's why we have those pics of Emma looking furious and determined when they come back.

Meanwhile Hook works with Zeus on something and in the end is rewarded to come back to life and I'm sure it's gonna be an amazing reunion for Emma and Killian. 

It's a parallel of Tallahassee from beginning to end including Emma letting Hook go. Except the first time it was willingly and this time it's unwillingly and she has no choice.