Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Jul 68]

I'm hoping that the trip to NY was just to show Violet what the LWoM is like. Henry would pick NYC because he erzatz lived there and wants to show her his old haunts before she goes back to living without electricity, internet, and cell phones.

[formerlyfreedom]

Topic = Spoilers.

[Rumsy4]

Going back to the scintillating script tease, I think shady Blue realizes that Belle is preggo, and sensing the Darkness in half its makeup, suggests Damien as a suitable name.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

If they're doing Jekyll/Hyde, they're the same person/body, but just morph into the other. Or they do something wacky and the one "detaches" from the other for a time.

 

Okay, but isn't one supposed to be brutish and evil and whatever? Shouldn't they be mildly concerned about inviting this guy along with them if he morphs or whatever? Oh who am I kidding? These people are all too stupid to live.

 

How is the baby going to understand any message, even if it is heart-felt??

 

He can have it for when he is old enough to understand that his parents are idiots. A nice video message will be sure to cheer him up.

 

Dear Unfortunately Named Child,

 

Sorry we left you with Shady with our very ill planned and rash decision to follow your sister into the Underworld. We weren't any real help for her in locating her True Love (she actually does much better when we're not around), but it was important to support her by bringing all of our insecurities along and having identity crises while Emma was searching and Killian was being tortured. Anyway, we feel real bad about leaving you, so now we're working real hard to get back, but just in case we don't, know that we didn't mean to abandon you with a shady fairy and we totally love you to pieces.

 

Sincerely,

 

Your Loving Parents

Edited March 31, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[scenicbyway]

Pictures!  Yay!  Considering it's Thursday...

 

Well, Robin is in the episode, but is it necessary to have his bow and arrows on him all the time?  Even in the loft?  CaptainSwan look cozy on the couch, but it looks like the conversation centers around Snow's fretting about baby Snowflake.  I like Dorothy's tiny house in the woods, I guess I'm supposed to be wondering why she's at a tiny house in the woods, but I really don't care.  I suppose we'll find she friended Snow who hooked her up with the latest in hunter on the run fashions.

 

What I can't figure out is that Snow's name is on a head stone, which is supposed to mean she can't leave, but aren't their spoilers that after this episode she is back in Storybrooke?

[YaddaYadda]

A few things from those promos...

 

1. Dorothy is wearing the silver slippers;
2. Zelena is holding what looks like the scarecrow's brain. Since Hades is interested in a spell of hers, then I guess we're looking at the time travel spell;
3. Hades is on a bicycle!
4. Looks like whatever the problem that were between Emma and Killian are in the past
5. Are they looking at a map?
6. I think Robin is supposed to be pivotal in this episode from what I'm getting from the promo

[Selina K]

I kind of love the bicycle.  I keep singing 'A Bicycle Built for Two' in my head.  I'm very uninterested in Dorothy, but I'm sort of in for the over the top campiness that will be Hades and Zelena.

[YaddaYadda]

I kind of love the bicycle.  I keep singing 'A Bicycle Built for Two' in my head.  I'm very uninterested in Dorothy, but I'm sort of in for the over the top campiness that will be Hades and Zelena.

 

I think Dorothy is dead. Everyone in the flashbacks thus far is in the Underworld with unfinished business. Cora, Henry Sr, Hercules, Milah, Liam and Silver. It doesn't bode well for Dorothy.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think Dorothy is dead. Everyone in the flashbacks thus far is in the Underworld with unfinished business. Cora, Henry Sr, Hercules, Milah, Liam and Silver. It doesn't bode well for Dorothy.

She's not dead. In the pictures, she's in Oz. She teams up with Red and Mulan later there too.

[KAOS Agent]

 

Hades is on a bicycle!

 

Hades is Miss Gulch.

 

 

I think Dorothy is dead. Everyone in the flashbacks thus far is in the Underworld with unfinished business. Cora, Henry Sr, Hercules, Milah, Liam and Silver. It doesn't bode well for Dorothy.

 

Isn't there an Oz-ian adventure with Ruby, Mulan and Dorothy coming up? I'm not sure how that would happen if Dorothy is dead.

[YaddaYadda]

Hades is Miss Gulch.

 

 

Isn't there an Oz-ian adventure with Ruby, Mulan and Dorothy coming up? I'm not sure how that would happen if Dorothy is dead.

 

Ruby also ends up in the Underworld somehow in 5x18. Maybe the Mulan/Ruby/Dorothy adventure is in flashbacks, not in present time since present time is in the Underworld. Maybe Ruby "inherits" the slippers somehow, and that's why they end up calling the episode "Ruby Slippers".

 

 

She's not dead. In the pictures, she's in Oz. She teams up with Red and Mulan later there too.

 

I know she's in Oz. I'm just saying that everyone in the flashbacks is somehow in the Underworld. That is all.

Edited March 31, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[KAOS Agent]

 

Maybe the Mulan/Ruby/Dorothy adventure is in flashbacks, not in present time since present time is in the Underworld.

 

I'm sure it's flashbacks but it's got to be the recent past. Ruby & Mulan hadn't met until the Camelot adventure. So we're looking at the two days Zelena was in Oz while Team Storybrooke was looking for Hook in the Underworld. Maybe they all die at that point? The point is that if Ruby/Mulan/Dorothy are teamed up in Oz, Dorothy couldn't have died more than a couple days ago in show time.

[KingOfHearts]

It's also possible Dorothy uses the silver slippers to send herself, Ruby and Mulan to the Underworld for some reason. Maybe she discovers Zelena is there and tries to track her down. Hades foreshadowed it when he mentioned the slippers.

Edited March 31, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I figured Hades' interest in Zelena's spell was gonna just be in flashbacks, but based on the pics with adult dorothy and the brain she's trying to do the time travel spell again in present-ish day as well???

Or am I just confusing myself?

Hades riding a bike (like the one in the wizard of oz) amuses me.

[MostlyC]

Breakdown: Don is as angry with death as he is was with life. Harassed and mocked by nephews and a greedy uncle, his bad temper is also an endless source of amusement for Hades.  3 scenes, possible recurring 601-03

[Rumsy4]

But I want Don to be a series regular!!  

[KingOfHearts]

But I want Don to be a series regular!!

He should get together with Regina after Robin dies!! Perfect pairing!!

[snarkastic]

 

Breakdown: Don is as angry with death as he is was with life. Harassed and mocked by nephews and a greedy uncle, his bad temper is also an endless source of amusement for Hades.  3 scenes, possible recurring 601-03

 

Only 3 scenes??? That's hardly enough to establish his history with the Apprentice. ;(

[pezgirl7]

 

Breakdown: Don is as angry with death as he is was with life. Harassed and mocked by nephews and a greedy uncle, his bad temper is also an endless source of amusement for Hades. 3 scenes, possible recurring 601-03

Poor Donald Duck. At first when I read that, I thought it was real, and was sad that the Hades arc wasn't over yet. Haha Gosh, it's not even April 1st here yet! I better get used to it. You know they could easily have these characters appear, just in an old cartoon on a TV somewhere.

Edited April 1, 2016 by saoirse

[formerlyfreedom]

Poor Donald Duck. At first when I read that, I thought it was real, and was sad that the Hades arc wasn't over yet. Haha Gosh, it's not even April 1st here yet! I better get used to it. You know they could easily have these characters appear, just in an old cartoon on a TV somewhere.

 

It's the one time a year the Spoiler Discussion mod condones Off-topicness! Enjoy! ;)

[YaddaYadda]

Why is Hades back in season 6?

 

Oh right, April Fools.

[KingOfHearts]

Because gods don't die?

That sneak peek. They keep trying to parallel Emma's birthday cupcake from the pilot. Also, it's strange how Zelena instantly recognized Dorothy and took no note that she grew up.

Edited April 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

Because gods don't die?

That sneak peek. They keep trying to parallel Emma's birthday cupcake from the pilot. Also, it's strange how Zelena instantly recognized Dorothy and took no note that she grew up.

Yep, I'm so annoyed that Regina and Zelena had "lonely" birthdays too.  The thing is, they are villains, they've done terrible things, they shouldn't parallel Emma's story because she's a "hero" but yet Emma constantly has to pay the price for everyone else's actions.  I can only think the writers are out of ideas that they've not only made Zelena a regular character but have brought us back to OZ.  Seriously, why do we need to go back to OZ?  Zelena is not a character that requires redemption or attention.

[Curio]

Yep, I'm so annoyed that Regina and Zelena had "lonely" birthdays too. The thing is, they are villains, they've done terrible things, they shouldn't parallel Emma's story because she's a "hero" but yet Emma constantly has to pay the price for everyone else's actions.

 

It really annoys me, too. At least I can sympathize a bit more with Zelena's lonely birthday, because up until this point in the flashback, I don't think Zelena has killed anyone yet. (Even though it sounds like she's plotting it at the moment.) With Regina's birthday moment, it's like...why should I feel sorry for you again? You literally just killed someone who tried to cheer you up on your birthday. Get over yourself.

 

Funny enough, this Zelena centric will probably keep more entertained than the 100th episode, if only because it's a flashback we haven't seen a million times before.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm glad we're getting some Oz worldbuilding finally with Zades, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the munchkins. I'm hyped.

[Curio]

I wish the CGI for the Scarecrow wasn't so terrible...but it's TS;TW so of course they wouldn't put too much effort into one of my favorite fictional characters.

[Rumsy4]

I guess Zelena is attempting the Time Travel spell with the Scarecrow (brain), the Tin-man (heart), and the Lion (courage). Scintillating.

[mjgchick]

The show needs to stop trying it with that birthday cake stuff. Zelena had parents who loved her. Regina had a father who loved her. What did Emma have? Just stop.

 

That being said I'm begrudgingly excited for this episode.

[YaddaYadda]

i don't think the birthdays are meant to parallel Emma, as much as they're meant to parallel both Zelena and Regina, especially since they have a centric coming up in 5x19. I don't think either has anything to do with Emma.

 

Zelena had parents who loved her.

She had a mother who loved her, and a father who despised her. Since we have no clue when her mother died, and going by 5x19, the woman probably bit it when Zelena was still pretty young. She essentially got stuck with someone who called her wicked, and hated her magic. Plus she was dirt poor, so I have a bit more empathy for Zelena.

 

Because gods don't die?

 

Hmm, enlightening! 

 

What I meant was that "villains" tend to not make it past the end of the arc they're supposed to be causing mayhem in.

 

Plus Hades is allergic to light magic, which makes him sort of lame as far as godding goes. Glad he has weaknesses, but it's still weird. I wonder if they will touch on at all on Persephone considering the whole I can't bring anyone alive to the UW. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I love how Zelena's bday treat parallels more closely (being both cupcakes) with Emma's than Regina's (who had a giant cake). because I'm petty like that.

Should I even try figuring out the Oz timeline? Where does this scene fit into it all? Obviously it takes place after the last time we saw Dorothy.

Is it after the Rumple stuff too? Before or after the Robin stuff? Just how old is Zelena?

I'm all sorts of confused.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I love how Zelena's bday treat parallels more closely (being both cupcakes) with Emma's than Regina's (who had a giant cake). because I'm petty like that.

The cupcake doesn't bother me because Zelena actually does have legitimate issues. She felt rejected by her biological mother, her adoptive father, the man she was in love with, and the witch sisters that took her in. And, even though she self-inflicted it, everyone in Oz hated her as their tyrannical green monster. Because of all that, I can see loneliness taking effect on her birthday. With Regina, she still had both parents loyal to her. (Well, in their own ways.) Even her nemesis cared about her. #TeamZelena

 

 

Should I even try figuring out the Oz timeline? Where does this scene fit into it all? Obviously it takes place after the last time we saw Dorothy.

 

The 3x16/3x20 flashbacks occurred shortly after Regina started taking lessons from Rumple. Snow and Dorothy were around the same age. Dorothy's return seemed to happen several years later.

Edited April 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

I have to agree, at least they do manage to make Zelena a bit sympathetic because of how she grew up compared to Regina. Its a wonder why she's so whiny. (Maybe that's why I have a problem with her though.)

Hades being afraid of light magic, well uhh does that mean Zelena or Regina will have light magic and that's why Emma is cuffed with those anti magic bracelets? Oye. This is so she doesn't save the day even though they all went there for her and Hook initially. lmao

[YaddaYadda]

Hades being afraid of light magic, well uhh does that mean Zelena or Regina will have light magic and that's why Emma is cuffed with those anti magic bracelets? Oye. This is so she doesn't save the day even though they all went there for her and Hook initially. lmao

 

They leave the Underworld either during Emma's centric or right after. As of 5x21, they're not longer in the UW, and Emma's centric is 5x20. I'm thinking she's directly responsible for whatever goes down in the UW that frees them, sends Hades packing, or whatever it is that happens to him.

[Serena]

I don't mind the Emma/Zelena cupcake parallels because they actually make sense. Both abandoned as babies (though for different reasons), the only characters in the show born with magic, abusive adoptive parents (Zelena had her mother for a while, Emma had Ingrid, but in general shitty childhoods). I can believe them more than the shitty Emma/Regina "You're the only one who knows what it's like to be misunderstood" fake parallels. Fakallels?

[Curio]

fake parallels. Fakallels?

 

Parafails?

[YaddaYadda]

Oh, okay, so I've got one.

 

If Hades in the Underworld is the equivalent of the Evil Queen in Storybrooke during the curse, then does that mean that Zelena is the equivalent of Emma in the Underworld since she parallels with Emma? 

[CheshireCat]

YaddaYadda, on 01 Apr 2016 - 2:58 PM, said:

i don't think the birthdays are meant to parallel Emma, as much as they're meant to parallel both Zelena and Regina, especially since they have a centric coming up in 5x19. I don't think either has anything to do with Emma.

 

 

 

She had a mother who loved her, and a father who despised her. Since we have no clue when her mother died, and going by 5x19, the woman probably bit it when Zelena was still pretty young. She essentially got stuck with someone who called her wicked, and hated her magic. Plus she was dirt poor, so I have a bit more empathy for Zelena.

 

I think all three - Emma, Regina and Zelena - had tough childhoods because they didn't have the support system a child should have/needs. Regina's father wasn't strong enough to stand up to Cora, so he couldn't really support Regina, Zelena's mother died early and Emma was in foster care and constantly disappointed by the people she cared about or thought she cared about.

But I'm not sure if they're angling for comparison in any way, really. If anything, I think they want to show that it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor or if you have a big birthday cake or a cupcake because you can be unhappy or happy with either and that it's not money which defines your happiness. Which I think is also part of the show - the happy ending isn't about money or riches or power, it's about family and love.  

[retrograde]

I typically enjoy this show's crappy CGI, but that scarecrow is just the worst. It also doesn't make any sense for that character to be cartoonish -- Zelena has green skin, Rumple has scales... why can't the scarecrow just be a human actor dressed as a scarecrow like in the movie Wizard of Oz?

[KingOfHearts]

I typically enjoy this show's crappy CGI, but that scarecrow is just the worst. It also doesn't make any sense for that character to be cartoonish -- Zelena has green skin, Rumple has scales... why can't the scarecrow just be a human actor dressed as a scarecrow like in the movie Wizard of Oz?

It belongs on that cheesy Oz sequel from a year or two ago called Dorothy's Return...

[Dianthus]

At least we didn't see wee Killian with a cupcake.

 

Speaking of, just how is Emma supposed to put a ring on it? C'mon, Show.

[Serena]

How dares the Hollywood Reporter not know Pistachio is a girl? For shame.

 

Is this the first the first finale where we haven't been completely spoiled by filming? We still basically don't know what's happening.

[YaddaYadda]

Is this the first the first finale where we haven't been completely spoiled by filming? We still basically don't know what's happening.

 

Pretty much!

 

Season 2, I was unspoiled, but I had a pretty good idea they were setting up a Neverland arc.

Season 3, we had a good idea that it was a time travelling adventure, and the titles gave it away that about Emma.

Season 4, we knew from the start that it would be about Regina and the whole Author stupidity.

 

This season though, I haven't got a clue what they're doing. 5x22 is clearly about Henry because of the title, but 5x23? Can the title be anymore vague?

[YaddaYadda]

That THR was a bit of a mess. The most interesting thing for me was the hinting at Hades' brothers coming on board at some point. Interesting from a mythology standpoint, but I'm sure Hades was picked on, and bullied and that's why he is the way he is.

[legaleagle53]

That THR was a bit of a mess. The most interesting thing for me was the hinting at Hades' brothers coming on board at some point. Interesting from a mythology standpoint, but I'm sure Hades was picked on, and bullied and that's why he is the way he is.

 

Which interesting because Hades is actually the oldest of the three sons of Cronus (Hades, Poseidon -- whom we've already met as Ursula's father -- and Zeus).  Perhaps he grew jealous of the fact that his baby brother Zeus is the King of all the Gods and therefore the most powerful of them all.  He doesn't seem to give a toss about his three sisters (Hestia, Demeter, and Hera), which is why he had no compunction about kidnapping Demeter's daughter Persephone in order to marry her.

[YaddaYadda]

Which interesting because Hades is actually the oldest of the three sons of Cronus (Hades, Poseidon -- whom we've already met as Ursula's father -- and Zeus).  Perhaps he grew jealous of the fact that his baby brother Zeus is the King of all the Gods and therefore the most powerful of them all.  He doesn't seem to give a toss about his three sisters (Hestia, Demeter, and Hera), which is why he had no compunction about kidnapping Demeter's daughter Persephone in order to marry her.

 

This is the other interesting thing that I found from the 1st sneak peek that they released. Hades cannot kidnap anyone to the Underworld. He can't grab someone that's alive and drag them down there with him.

 

It got me wondering if they are going to completely forgo the whole Persephone deal (which I think it seems headed towards that anyway), or they will go with it, where Hades does kidnap her, but when she goes up to the "overworld", someone intervenes, and is like no no, you can't do that anymore, and she is freed that way, and he can't have his way anymore.

 

He using Rumple to make a grab for Zelena it seems, and that means that she very likely refuses to follow him to the UW.

[legaleagle53]

This is the other interesting thing that I found from the 1st sneak peek that they released. Hades cannot kidnap anyone to the Underworld. He can't grab someone that's alive and drag them down there with him.

 

It got me wondering if they are going to completely forgo the whole Persephone deal (which I think it seems headed towards that anyway), or they will go with it, where Hades does kidnap her, but when she goes up to the "overworld", someone intervenes, and is like no no, you can't do that anymore, and she is freed that way, and he can't have his way anymore.

 

He using Rumple to make a grab for Zelena it seems, and that means that she very likely refuses to follow him to the UW.

 

Well, in the original myth, Zeus did partially overrule him regarding Persephone when her mother appealed to him for help.  He told Hades that Persephone had to be returned to Demeter, provided that she hadn't eaten anything while in the Underworld.  When Zeus learned that Hades had tricked Persephone into eating six pomegranate seeds, Zeus modified the decree to state that each year, Persephone had to stay in the Underworld for one month for every pomegranate seed she had eaten, after which she would spend the remainder of the year with Demeter in the Overworld. That's why we have seasons; during Spring and Summer, Persephone is spending quality time with her mother, and during Fall and Winter, she is in Hades with her uncle/husband, while Demeter and the Overworld go into a period of mourning during which nothing grows.

[PixiePaws1]

Which interesting because Hades is actually the oldest of the three sons of Cronus (Hades, Poseidon -- whom we've already met as Ursula's father -- and Zeus). Perhaps he grew jealous of the fact that his baby brother Zeus is the King of all the Gods and therefore the most powerful of them all. He doesn't seem to give a toss about his three sisters (Hestia, Demeter, and Hera), which is why he had no compunction about kidnapping Demeter's daughter Persephone in order to marry her.

when they first announced the casting notice for the two brothers i did wonder if they were Hades' brothers and the progression from the UW arc would be on to Olympus and the other gods but we'd already seen Posiedon and not so long ago that they'd recast.

I am glad though because then we'd have magical beings again. I am hoping if it's Jekyll &Hyde that they go with the medical miss step that created Hyde so we have non-magical but clever possible villains for a change. A lot of movies portrayed Hyde as a brutish idiot monster but he has also been shown as a very smart but brutally violent creature with a hair trigger temper.

[Curio]

"Disney's Princess and the Frog characters are set to appear in at least two episode of the upcoming season, according to executive producers Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis."

 

Glad to see proofing is still alive and well. I'm sure they require at least two copywriter to look over their pieces before they send to print.

 

Also, I'm sure Tiana is going to be like Merida (but not as annoying) in Season 6 where she'll be pimped out in all the marketing before the season begins, but ends up showing up for like 10 minutes in a completely uneventful and useless side quest.

[legaleagle53]

 Glad to see proofing is still alive and well. I'm sure they require at least two copywriter to look over their pieces before they send to print.

 

I see what you did there!  LOL

[KingOfHearts]

Princess and the Frog? Where is my Aladdin?? Wouldn't that be a better headliner?

Edited April 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts