Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[tennisgurl]

They will need to bring in True Loves Kiss at some point. That will finally prove whether or not they are really True Loves. I mean, it wont stop the shipping wars, but it will be a big win for Captain Swan. 

 

I am really interested in some of the episode titles this season, especially the last two. It seems to have a bit of a religious/spiritual vibe, which has never really been a thing on this show. The Firebird is a part of Slavic Mythology, and I assume is a reference to resurrection (either that or they wander into a magical version of *Eastern Europe), and Last Rites is VERY Catholic sounding, the Last Rites being given to a person who is about to die. Resurrection, last rites, all sounding rather religious. No idea what that means, but its interesting. 

 

*I have always wondered if the world with the Enchanted Forest has multiple fantasy counterparts to real world regions. We know there is a magical Scotland, and a magical China, what else is out there? Oh how I wish the world building on this show was better!

Edited February 26, 2016 by tennisgurl

[maryle]

My fear is that Emma and CS will be sidelining more than I was already expecting. With the b arc usually mostly about Regina thing.

I do not know if all the fandom drama caught up with me but I really feat they forget "..about Emma will find that her role as savior is not over."

They tease for 5b and I do believe the final for 5b should have something big for her and CS but if the spoiler about something big happened to Robin in 5X21 (not necessary is dead) and Regina is the real leader for operation firebird than the final will be mostly again about her like last year.

[Scovies]

maryle, while I don't think 5B will be quite as heavy on CS as 5A was, I still think we'll get some pretty amazing stuff. The "Firebird" episode is written by Jane, is an Emma flashback, and includes Hook's dad -- it sounds like we're going to get something incredibly significant for them towards the end of the season, and we'll still have "The Brother Jones" to look forward to as well. If nothing else, it seems like they've slotted some meaningful time for CS, unlike 4B where it usually felt like an afterthought (well-written and acted, mind you, but still an afterthought).

[ABitOFluff]

I am really interested in some of the episode titles this season, especially the last two. It seems to have a bit of a religious/spiritual vibe, which has never really been a thing on this show. The Firebird is a part of Slavic Mythology, and I assume is a reference to resurrection (either that or they wander into a magical version of *Eastern Europe), and Last Rites is VERY Catholic sounding, the Last Rites being given to a person who is about to die. Resurrection, last rites, all sounding rather religious. No idea what that means, but its interesting. 

 

If I remember my Catechism classes correctly (and from what I observed from my own father being given Last Rites), the Last Rites are provided to a dying person to clear their souls to prepare them for their journey to enter the kingdom of heaven and the final judgement of God. Confession is a big part of the Last Rites. As long as you confess and/or a priest blesses you with the Sacrament of Confession, you're good. Also, the Catholic Church used to have a belief of limbo and pergatory, where those who hadn't been fully forgiven for their sins waited to be absolved of their sins. This is what I'm thinking the OUAT Underworld is like.

 

So, I'm thinking the title has to do with the pictures of Henry writing in the story book while dead people such as Cruella and the Blind Witch surround him, and their Last Rites and moving on the afterlife/heaven/paradise or whatever.

 

In summary, I don't think the title means anyone else is dying, but that the dead are moving on.

Edited February 26, 2016 by ABitOFluff

[maryle]

I hope your right and we do have some good stuff ti looking for and that they do not diminush Emma role.

[Souris]

You know, I bet the old Dark Ones are PISSED that Hook thwarted their plans to be corporeal again. They could be the ones who have him. I could see them using Dark Swan to torment & torture him -- that would explain using the costume again. It's an excruciatingly painful idea, but I also kind of love it because the acting would be awesome. But ... the pain. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Souris

[PixiePaws1]

You know, I bet the old Dark Ones are PISSED that Hook thwarted their plans to be corporeal again. They could be the ones who have him. I could see them using Dark Swan to torment & torture him -- that would explain using the costume again. It's an excruciatingly painful idea, but I also kind of love it because the acting would be awesome. But ... the pain.

this sounds like a very likely scenario. ..

The torture Killian endures may be part of the reason for the writers setting it up so that his body wasn't taken to the UW...they can mark the soul hideously, such as the burning. ..but the corporeal form is not touched (just moldering away in the morgue unless it's been preserved...maybe that's one of the time limits. ..get him before the body has ...well..you know..)

Edited February 26, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[KAOS Agent]

It would allow for Emma to go in and kick Nimue's ass which I would appreciate.

 

I want to know if there's anything to the idea that the David with everyone at the clocktower is really James. What was up with the taser and taking David's stuff? Are they going to make everyone look like idiots for not being able to tell the difference? Or did that whole thing get resolved? 

[chrisvee]

Ugh. I really refused to believe that Snow can't tell her husband apart from his twin. But I can see them going there.

[sharky]

To be fair, casting did an excellent job. The actors who play James and David are practically identical so I can see where she would have trouble telling them apart.

[tennisgurl]

Then everyone would cheer about how awesome it is that Regina has no regrets about her raping and killing and destroying countless lives over a bit of miscommunication which could have been the plot of an episode of Friends. Oh goodie. 

 

But I really love ABitOFluff`s idea that the dead are moving on, and maybe that is where our story will end for the season. If done right, this could actually be really good, and allow a lot of closure for a lot of characters and storylines. If they do it right, it could be really powerful stuff. It also means having all the emotions of a death scene, but without actually having to off a main character, and risk pissing fans off.

[Free]

Since Last Rites is about absolving one of sin...what if the way the Nevengers get back from the UW is basically like the Echo Caves redux. They have to go around confessing things. Never mind. These writers would never have Regina confessing wrongdoing. Snowing, Emma, Hook, Robin, etc. could all write books of confessions and she/Rumple would just sort of shrug and say they regret nothing. 

 

It would make the Neverland arc comparison all the more apt.

[Shanna Marie]

I guess this should probably go in the spoilers topic, as it deals with plot lines and characters that haven't been introduced yet in the show:

 

If you want to catch up on Disney's take on the Hades and Hercules mythology in preparation for the Hades and Underworld arc, my cable guide shows that they're running the Disney Hercules a couple of times this weekend on Disney Jr. I think one of the showings is 5 p.m. Central on Saturday.

[KingOfHearts]

Well that's... a "coincidence".

[Curio]

I think I'll actively avoid watching anything Hercules/Hades-related because I know this show won't come anywhere close to honoring the original stories.

 

Is it bad that my own personal "premiere" episode for 5B isn't until the third episode in? The 100th seems like it's going to be a let-down, and then the Snow/Hercules second episode seems like it has the potential to be another useless one-off like "The Tower." I've already kind of accepted 5B is going to mirror 4B in a lot of ways...the only two episodes I genuinely liked in 4B were "Poor Unfortunate Soul" and "Sympathy for the De Vil," and the only two episodes in 5B I see myself enjoying are "The Brothers Jones" and "Firebird." The jury's still out on whether or not the finale will be better than last year.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Curio

[sharky]

I think I'll actively avoid watching anything Hercules/Hades-related because I know this show won't come anywhere close to honoring the original stories.

But but but....there's blue hair!

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think I'll actively avoid watching anything Hercules/Hades-related because I know this show won't come anywhere close to honoring the original stories.

To be fair, the Disney version doesn't exactly honor the original stories either.

 

 

“The second half is going to be very similar to the first season in that we’re going to see Storybrooke as a place of people with unfinished business,” executive producer Edward Kitsis says. “We have to wonder if we can’t help them find their happy endings even in the afterlife.”

This sounds odd considering many of the guest stars are villains. Are we going to give Cora and Pan happy endings? Cruella? I guess they're speaking more about Milah, Hercules and Megara. 

 

Does anyone else think James is going to try and hitch a ride back to the land of the living by pretending to be David? Snow would fall for it every. single. time.

Edited February 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

KingOfHearts, on 26 Feb 2016 - 4:37 PM, said:KingOfHearts, on 26 Feb 2016 - 4:37 PM, said:

Does anyone else think James is going to try and hitch a ride back to the land of the living by pretending to be David? Snow would fall for it every. single. time.

 

If she's really dumb enough to fall for it when (a) she's never even met James and (b) a wife should know her own husband well enough not to be completely fooled by an impostor, ever, then Regina has been right about her all along that she's too damn dumb to live.

Edited February 27, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Curio]

If she's really dumb enough to fall for it when (a) she's never even met James and (b) a wife should know her own husband well enough not to be completely fooled by an impostor, ever, then Regina has been right about her all along that she's too damn dumb to live.

 

Regina has no right to brag here, considering she let Zelena trick her into thinking she was actually Marion for the entirety of 4A and part of 4B.

[YaddaYadda]

If she's really dumb enough to fall for it when (a) she's never even met James and (b) a wife should know her own husband well enough not to be completely fooled by an impostor, ever, then Regina has been right about her all along that she's too damn dumb to live.

 

Regina should take several seats on that one.

 

I think James is going to try to take David's place, and if the writers are smart, they will play up the whole Snowing share a heart. If there's ever a moment to bring that up, this is it.

[KingOfHearts]

 

If she's really dumb enough to fall for it when (a) she's never even met James and (b) a wife should know her own husband well enough not to be completely fooled by an impostor, ever, then Regina has been right about her all along that she's too damn dumb to live.

Well, according to spoilers for 5x12, she is.

 

 

Regina has no right to brag here, considering she let Zelena trick her into thinking she was actually Marion for the entirety of 4A and part of 4B.

 

I give Regina a little slack here since not even the audience nor writers knew it was Zelena.

 

 

Regina should take several seats on that one.

Regina has done some really, really dumb things. But it's not like she was smarter at one point then grew stupider over time. The heroes weren't always idiots but Regina has always been theatrically insane.

Edited February 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I think James is going to try to take David's place, and if the writers are smart, they will play up the whole Snowing share a heart. If there's ever a moment to bring that up, this is it.

 

Considering the writers consistently miss such opportunities... But I'm sure she will realize once they kiss (ew!!). I don't think the cliffhanger will be Charming left behind in the UW, and Snow deciding to go back for him. The writers don't care enough about Snowing for that.

 

I give Regina a little slack here since not even the audience nor writers knew it was Zelena.

 

LMAO

[chrisvee]

Now Emma has to worry about the happy endings of the dead. ::eyeroll::

[PixiePaws1]

My curiosity about the piece of paper Emma is holding in the shots from 5x20 knows no bounds.

Could it be:

-list of things she had to do to earn Killian's freedom

-contract for her own soul in the future to free Killian's now

-map to getting out of the UW

-a page written by Henry with a remade Author pen

-her UW wedding license (lol)

-Hades'grocery list

-list of grievances from SQ fans who don't even let the boundaries of the UW keep them from voicing their self-entitled vitriol

-letter from the school board asking why a minor keeps missing classes

-list of happy endings she has to bring back before her own

-script update from the writers that they've changed the entire plot and can she please try to keep up

-map to the secret hiding place of her parents'awesome bad assness from s1

-get out of the UW free pass

...suggestions???

[mjgchick]

Now Emma has to worry about the happy endings of the dead. ::eyeroll::

I'm going to need Hook to lock their house door when they get back. Mama needs a break. When was the last time she slept? She clearly didn't after he died either.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why is the underworld a twisted version of Storybrooke? Robin and Regina discuss a theory on that matter. Think the chicken and the egg.

This plays into what I was thinking. Storybrooke originated from the Underworld, not the other way around. Maybe whatever curse Hades used to create the Underworld was actually kept safe by the Chernabog? That beast could definitely be hell-related. So... the Dark Curse was created by Hades. That's my theory.

Edited February 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

-list of grievances from SQ fans who don't even let the boundaries of the UW keep them from voicing their self-entitled vitriol

I thought the Underworld was where that came from in the first place.

 

Hmm, maybe it's Ingrid's scroll, which is useful for getting back into Storybrooke no matter where you're coming from.

 

I would hope that Snow is only momentarily fooled by James. Given that James never met David and may never have even known he existed (did James even know he was adopted?), how could he possibly imitate him perfectly, unless being dead gives him some kind of special insight? James may be genetically identical (especially since they're played by the same actor), but their personalities are polar opposites, and you'd think that someone would have to spend more than a little time around someone to imitate him well enough to fool his wife. Twins can only get away with switching places when they know each other well enough to imitate each other. Twins who've never met wouldn't be that successful.

[Curio]

Given that James never met David and may never have even known he existed (did James even know he was adopted?), how could he possibly imitate him perfectly, unless being dead gives him some kind of special insight?

 

Maybe James got imitation lessons from Zelena who taught him how to perfectly mimick someone, even if you've never met or interacted with that person before and have opposite personalities.

[Watt]

So where do I find real spoilers and not half spoilers? I get not wanting to spoil it compeletely bc of personal reasons if you've seen it, but I want real spoilers!

[KAOS Agent]

Here's a good roundup of spoilers for the episode. She's got pages and pages of stuff including a bunch of asks from different people who've seen the episode. They didn't want to spoil everything obviously, but put it all together and you can tell exactly what happens in this episode.

[Shanna Marie]

I watched Hercules this evening, and I swear, I felt like I was digging through a kids' movie looking for hidden codes. Cute film, BTW. I'd thought I'd seen it, but I don't seem to have because none of it was familiar. I suppose the connection to the way they do this arc will depend on how much they steal/borrow, whether they're doing a prequel or sequel or whether they're just using characters and situations and giving it their own twist.

 

Some thoughts as they relate to existing spoilers and how it might work out:

I wonder if maybe Emma and company will cross paths with Hercules while he's in the Underworld to rescue Meg (as in the movie, but the Underworld in this case looks like Storybrooke), and that will be the wink to the movie.

There's the fact that Meg owes her soul to Hades for saving her boyfriend's life, which could hint at what's in store for Emma -- that piece of paper we've been wondering about? -- only I would hope Hook wouldn't dump her right after she saves him. If he did, it wouldn't likely be for another woman (unless he loses his memories and that's where Milah comes in, and that's a trick of Hades), but possibly out of his own guilt, not knowing the price she paid and not wanting to face her after everything that happened.

Or is Hook Meg and Emma Hercules? There was the deal of Hercules to give up his strength for a day so that Hades could do what he wanted, as long as Meg was safe and freed, and that could equate to that anti-magic cuff. Could Emma be giving up her powers for a day to pay for Hook?

Hook being in the role of Meg might also mean him trying to earn his own freedom, not knowing that Emma is coming for him, so he does things he normally wouldn't be happy with (yeah, it's a repeat of him with Rumple in 4A, which makes it likely because they love a good retread)

 

I wonder if we'll be getting a Zeus/Zeus equivalent, someone Hades is up against and needing leverage against.

[Camera One]

I read just one quote but had to stop to avoid spoilers... 

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/02/24/once-upon-a-time-is-there-redeeming-rumplestiltskin-again

 

"He has learned something," Kitsis said when asked whether Rumple might have learned from previous mistakes "I think that if fans are like, 'Oh, are they going to do the same thing again?' -- absolutely not. He's learned a lot."

 

Give me a freak'in break, Eddy.  I want to go back to this quote at the end of 5B and sees if it actually pans out.

[KingOfHearts]

There better be some sneak peeks this week, or I won't be a happy camper... until Sunday.

[Serena]

They should release an Oscars promo, don't they always do that?

Edited February 28, 2016 by Serena

[KingOfHearts]

New Promo with a shot of Hades. The elevator scenes are purely from previous episodes. Can anyone tell me who's saying "Hello, Hades"?

Sounds like Zelena to me.

Is Zelena even in 5x12 though? Or are they cherry-picking scenes from future episodes like they did with Cruella? Is "Hello, Hades" in the episode, Souris?

Edited February 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Is Zelena even in 5x12 though? Or are they cherry-picking scenes from future episodes like they did with Cruella? Is "Hello, Hades" in the episode, Souris?

 

No, she isn't. I don't think the bit is from 5x12 anyway, but I could be wrong.

Edited February 29, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

That bit looks like Emma from S1 finale where she goes to kill Maleficent.

[Souris]

Is Zelena even in 5x12 though? Or are they cherry-picking scenes from future episodes like they did with Cruella? Is "Hello, Hades" in the episode, Souris?

I think Cora says it in 5x12, but I don't remember for sure.

[Dianthus]

I can certainly see them doing the Emma/Herc and Hook/Meg thing. The gender role reversal with those two isn't as pronounced as it could be with Spuffy, but it's there.

[Rumsy4]

I was browsing through the tumblr of an Evil Regal who had seen the premiere. In several answers, she says she was surprised at how Regina-focused the episode was, despite the promotion leading up to it has been so different. Several other reviewers who are Regina fans have said the same. I think in this forum we predicted right from the start the B arc was going to be all about Regina, but A&E do love to bait and switch the audience, don't they? 

[Curio]

It's interesting how the marketing for the show is often drastically different than what's shown on screen. I saw a commercial for ABC's Quantico during the Oscars, and there wasn't any fluff or stretching the truth—it laid out in simple terms who the characters are, what the pairings are, and nailed the cheesy, melodramatic vibe of the show. But with Once, their promotion thus far has been very Hook heavy. All their banners and marketing materials have Hook's face on it, the commercial talks about going to the Underworld to save Hook, and the "One More Week" social image has a hook hanging off it. For the casual view, it's going to be a real surprise to find that Hook isn't really even in the premiere episode, and based on the spoilers we have, he's not playing a large part of 5B either. Not that this is anything new, as we've seen with the Dark Swan and the Queens of Darkness marketing campaigns that were also very misleading. It just makes me wonder what goes on in ABC's marketing department where they feel the need to promote what seems like an entirely different show than what we get on screen.

[YaddaYadda]

I think it will be interesting to see the ratings from 5x12 to 5x13. Although I'm thinking that those who are waiting on the Hook storyline might have enough incentive to tune in when they see the state of him. But this really is typical bait and switch on the part of the writers. They've used Hook all over to promote 5B, hopefully they do deliver on that.

 

I know that some are annoyed that he is in for 20 seconds in 5x12, and that he isn't found right away, but I think it's a good call on the part of the writers. I thought that Emma was found way too quickly in 5x01.

[Rumsy4]

I too think it's good Emma doesn't find Hook in the first episode, but that doesn't mean the episode itself had to be so Regina-heavy. Ideally, an Emma flashback of her bailbonds person days would have been a perfect way to start the arc. And it would dovetail nicely into Firebird where her beginnings as a Bailbondsperson is shown. But 5A was too Regina-lite for A&E apparently. So they seem to have gone overboard with showing the Evil Queen in this episode.

The marketing department promotes what they think will sell. Last year's comic con promoted Regina so heavily, that we were all surprised the arc wasn't about Regina being the new savior., and Emma crushing hearts. A&E don't seem to realize the dissonance between marketing and storytelling is jarring.

[RadioGirl27]

5A ended with Hook dying and everybody going on a mission to save him, so that's what they have to promote because that's what the general audience is waiting for. So, even if 5B is really about Regina and Zelena and not about Hook, they have to center the promotion around him. Probably, after the first episodes, the promotion will drift towards "Regina, the Savior of the UW" and "Zelena and Hades, the ultimate TL couple".

 

I know that some are annoyed that he is in for 20 seconds in 5x12, and that he isn't found right away, but I think it's a good call on the part of the writers. I thought that Emma was found way too quickly in 5x01.

I don't have a problem with them not being reunited right away, but I have a big problem with the enormous focus on Regina while Hooks gets a blink and you miss it 3 seconds scene.

Edited February 29, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[mjgchick]

I'm just upset that they decided to celebrate the 100th episode on such a dull character and not the whole cast. TVD did the same thing but instead of using either Elena or the boys they used Katherine accept she's not as dull as Regina.

[YaddaYadda]

but that doesn't mean the episode itself had to be so Regina-heavy

 

Oh, I agree with that part. It's the 100th episode, it should be a celebration of all the characters.

 

That's why I was hoping the 100th would be a AU, magicless episode. Let's see what a "normal" day in Storybrooke looks like. Hey, there's that dysfunctional family meeting for breakfast. Regina's egg benedict is overcooked, but she's at Granny's and unless you're getting scrambled, you're shit out of luck. Look, it's Do Over taking his first steps in the Loft living room, it's Hook taking Henry sailing. Mary Margaret helping Emma pick out a dress. You know, silly stuff.

 

It would have been fun if they did flashbacks like these while the gang is headed to the Underworld to find Hook.

[tennisgurl]

A really good 100th episode should celebrate the show and its history, not its favorite pet character. Personally, I would like a multi cast flashbacks episode, where we learn more about the characters, and how they have gotten to where they are now, with call backs and cameos from characters past. I get that Regina is a big character on this show, for better or for worse, but she really isn't the main character. Emma is. If they had to make the 100 episode about anyone, it should have been her, plain and simple. 

[Serena]

No doubt about it, having the 100th be so Regina-centric is a slap to the face to loyal fans. I'm not bothered, for some reason (maybe I've given up hoping for more from A&E? Or I know there will be some kind of CS payoff so I'm just watching for that and ignoring the rest). About the only thing I'm looking forward to is the writers getting called out on the stupid decision they made.

[sharky]

That's why I was hoping the 100th would be a AU, magicless episode. Let's see what a "normal" day in Storybrooke looks like. Hey, there's that dysfunctional family meeting for breakfast. Regina's egg benedict is overcooked, but she's at Granny's and unless you're getting scrambled, you're shit out of luck. Look, it's Do Over taking his first steps in the Loft living room, it's Hook taking Henry sailing. Mary Margaret helping Emma pick out a dress. You know, silly stuff.

That's what the Yahoo questionnaire is for. :)

 

As for the rest.... Let me preface this by saving I've seen the episode so proceed how you want. I'm not the biggest Regina fan -- same as most of you. But now that I've seen the episode and digested it a bit, I actually liked Regina's story in this episode. I thought it tied back to the show's origin story well when you sit and think about it and, dare I say it, Regina even made me sympathize for her. Not enough Hook, definitely, but I think they tried to cram a few things into this episode as set-up for the rest of the season, and Hook is one of those set-ups.

 

Regarding Regina as the savior of the Underworld, I've seen it mentioned a few places now, but people are making this assumption with the limited spoilers that are out there. Based on what I saw, I'm asking you to not worry just yet.

[Rumsy4]

Thanks for your post, sharky. What did you think of the Neal scene?