Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[regularlyleaded]

Pretty darn sure. Scene of the group, Dark Emma, Hook & hooded figures near the lake. Then a scene with the group minus Hook & the hooded figures, and Emma is de-Darkened and she's wearing his ring on a chain around her neck.

There are photos from the cemetery filming for 5x12 that appear to show a grave marker with "Killian Jones" on it. An intrepid CSer searched that cemetery's online database and found a real marker in that exact spot for a "Lillian Jones." So they probably just set-dressed the "L" to a "K." Handy!

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for the rundown, Souris :)

But if Hook is dead and Emma and Co. go to the Underworld to get him back then that raises a million other questions (which I'm sure others have raised previously). The biggest question (IMO) being, why not resurrect everyone else who has died? (not that I want any of them back, except Graham. But I know Jamie Dornan is in a far, far, far better (professional) place now. RIP, Sheriff Sexypants) If this were any other show I'd say “I'm excited to find out how they explain this”, but, haha, it's this show so I'm not at all. I'll probably sprain my eyeballs from them rolling so far back into my head with the level of wank the writers will use to “explain” away the logistics of it all.

If it is Hook's grave that those spoiler pics were about, then I guess they'll believe Hook to be dead for a whole hot minute (they used that minute to erect a tombstone over Hook's grave. *yup, totally rolling my eyes here*) before the fall finale ends with Ghost!Hook (or Ghost!Dark!Hook?) coming to Emma in a dream, or as a vision or something, and telling her he's still alive and needs her help – a ghostly callback to the 3A ending, perhaps....and then a deluge of velveeta cheese will gush forth from the TV screens drowning the audience because killing a decent idea with bad fan fiction level of writing is what these writers excel at.

 

As much as I love Emma (and Hook) none of these 5B spoilers sound very...well, it sounds very "meh" to me. The characters look like they're just running around in Underbrooke (or has Storybrooke been invaded by ghosts/undead?) and are reacting to whatever situation they're faced with in their mission to #Save<insert character's name here> so.....status quo.

 

I think a show can only sustain a certain level of angst and anticipation for so long without a pay-off before the energy inherent in the story and the audience interest starts to evaporate. I think the show is bumping up against that threshold here by spreading this Captain Swan angst too far. 5A has felt (to me) like they've dragged all this angst out for far longer than the story they constructed could sustain (not because the idea itself wasn't interesting enough, but simply because the show-runners only do shallow explorations of story and don't know how -- or don't want -- to write anything with meaningful depth and so they plow over any juicy material they could really mine for depth and complexity). So now with 2 episodes left in 5A,, I'm starting to move from feeling like "OMG, just get on with it already!" and I'm settling into indifference. And given that 5B won't air until March? I may actually lose complete interest in this show. In the past I've been pissed at what's happened, but at least that means I still felt something about the show. Now? Meh. There's a couple of episodes of The Great British Bake Off I haven't seen yet. I'm gonna go learn about baking pastries and watch Paul Hollywood "punch bread and shatter dreams".

[ParadoxLost]

We need a theory that accounts for both de-darkening Emma and killing

 

Did Rumpel die in process of becoming the Dark One?  Emma didn't.

Hook's death may be as simple as in de-darking Hook and Emma they get returned to their pre-Dark One state and Emma was alive and Killian was dead/dying.

I presume that Charon comes to get Hook like he tried with Robin but they don't do the wonder twins unite thing to stop him from being taken across the River Styx.

[chrisvee]

Did Rumpel die in process of becoming the Dark One?  Emma didn't. Hook's death may be as simple as in de-darking Hook and Emma they get returned to their pre-Dark One state and Emma was alive and Killian was dead/dying. I presume that Charon comes to get Hook like he tried with Robin but they don't do the wonder twins unite thing to stop him from being taken across the River Styx.

I was assuming that Emma's conclusion about needing to kill the Dark One with Excalibur to vanquish the darkness (aka the Zelena plan) was true. I suppose Regina could run them both through with Excalibur ala Pan/Rumple.

[ParadoxLost]

I was assuming that Emma's conclusion about needing to kill the Dark One with Excalibur to vanquish the darkness (aka the Zelena plan) was true. I suppose Regina could run them both through with Excalibur ala Pan/Rumple.

 

I'm discounting any theory where the Darkness is destroyed because it cuts off too much future story and, its so easy to go with there must be dark to have light and despair to have hope and sadness to have joy, etc. narrative.  But mostly I just can't see them not reverting Rumple back to the Dark One.  So somehow Rumple will become the Dark One again in freeing Emma/Hook.

Edited November 18, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Souris]

I'm discounting any theory where the Darkness is destroyed because it cuts off too much future story, its so easy to go with there must be dark to have light and despair to have hope and sadness to have joy, etc. narrative.  But mostly I just can't see them not reverting Rumple back to the Dark One.  So somehow Rumple will become the Dark One again in freeing Emma/Hook.

 

I wonder if perhaps the Darkness itself is destroyed for good, but each surviving former Dark One -- Gold and Emma -- will be "returned" the darkness they did as the Dark One. So they get just their personal level of darkness, but not something that is to the level of the Black Flubber that needs to be tethered or that can be transferred. So Rumple will then have a lot of Darkness and power, but not BE the Dark One. The dead Dark Ones will go back to the UW.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

Gold may get his magic back, but I don't think he's becoming the Dark One again. That's likely why they are bringing in Hades in 5B. To one-up the Darkness as antagonist. 

[PixiePaws1]

I'm so very confused...

Tethering Killian to the broken sword...made of the Holy Grail...makes him a DO because? ? Merlin didn't become a DO when he got hooked up (yeah..puns). Even when he did something not overly evil under Arthur's control. Shouldn't Killian have been ok unless he committed a Dark act like kill as per Nimue (who was perfectly justified in my book ) ?

Did they whack a anti magic cuff on him and it's glamored so we can't see it?

Why doed DO Hook get rid of the leather?

I am so so lost *sigh*

The only anvil I recognized was Regina reminding the audience that Emma gave her the dagger to do what might need doing *vomit*...

[mjgchick]

Every other DO has had their scaly face but Jones and Swan ain't about that life so one gets platinum blonde bun and the other pushes their hair to the other side. Those two idiots.

[KAOS Agent]

If Regina kills Hook because that's what needs doing, it's a total cop out. I'm sorry, but no. This is Emma's mess. She needs to clean it up. I despise where this story is going. I'm not a fan of heavy angst like this (partly because I know it won't be dealt with in a decent manner), but throwing Regina into the end of this story to "save" everyone would be absolutely terrible writing. Which is probably where it will go knowing how these writers love to make a story about other characters and then go haha, nope and have Regina/Rumpel come in and do whatever in the end.

 

I'm also extremely against any storyline where Rumpel gets his newly minted clean heart as a reward for screwing everyone over and then walks off with all of his power back at the end of this arc. Seriously, this show is very much telling me that being bad will reward you infinitely more than doing the right thing.

[formerlyfreedom]

People.

 

EPISODE DISCUSSION DOES NOT BELONG HERE. This topic is for spoiler discussion for future episodes, NOT discussion of what has happened.

 

This is EXACTLY WHY the topic gets locked after the episode. If you'd like it to remain open (which honestly, we'd prefer), then take the conversation to where it belongs.

 

Posts that do not belong here in the future will disappear without notice.

 

[regularlyleaded]

If Regina kills Hook because that's what needs doing, it's a total cop out. I'm sorry, but no. This is Emma's mess. She needs to clean it up.

 

Heh, I'm amused by how gung-ho you all are for Emma to have to kill her true love. Take that, Emma! That's what you get for trying to fight for Hook no matter what. Suffer, Emma! Suuuuuuuffer! Heehee, y'all are twisted ;-)

 

....And the "Let's torture Emma" train picks up speed. Wheeeee! -___-

Edited November 18, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Shanna Marie]

It's not so much that I want Emma to kill Hook, more that I want her to be the one who resolves the arc issue, for a change, and I'd prefer that either Emma be strong enough to do what needs to be done or that Hook set it up to make the sacrifice on her behalf because only her killing him will do the trick. If Regina does it, it looks like Emma has failed yet again and wasn't strong enough to do it, and you know that on this show it won't even get in the way of their "wonderful" friendship. Emma will be forced to apologize for not being strong enough and to thank Regina for doing it. Regina destroying the darkness will make her the new Savior. Ugh.

 

On another note, which episode was Papa Hook supposed to be in, this next one or the arc finale? We don't really have any spoilers at all, other than his name (which I can't recall off the top of my head) and his existence. There was just the one behind-the-scenes photo of him with his "son," but his shooting must have been in the studio or on a closed set because I don't recall hearing any shooting reports or seeing any pictures. Wasn't young Killian (and presumably Liam) supposed to be in those flashbacks, as well? Did we ever learn anything about casting, or are we dealing with young enough children that there'd be no news in naming who's playing the roles?

[Hookian]

It's almost definitely a plan between them, since it's meant to parallel the flashback of Hook and the Evil Queen working together. That won't stop the SQ shippers from changing the context entirely in gifs and whatnot to be Regina killing Hook over Emma's love.

 

Well they're clearly delusional so let them do what they want. I really don't care what they say because in the end we win over them. :)

 

Emma is going to go to the Underworld to save Killian and everybody is gonna go with her because they owe it to her as much and I'm all for it. 

 

SQ shippers won't be happy because Robin is going as well and Emma is likely gonna be 100% determined on saving Killian. Nothing they will like at all. 

 

I do think Hook and Regina are defintiely working together though.  Regina does agree to go to the UW to go and get Hook back which SQ shippers will not be happy about. So honestly who cares what those irrelevant people think?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Hookian

[chrisvee]

I'm discounting any theory where the Darkness is destroyed because it cuts off too much future story and, its so easy to go with there must be dark to have light and despair to have hope and sadness to have joy, etc. narrative.

Getting rid of the darkness that powers the Dark One isn't the same as getting rid of all evil. They'll just come up with something else. And this Dark One schtick is getting sort of played out so its time for it to go.

Edited November 18, 2015 by chrisvee

[KAOS Agent]

 

Heh, I'm amused by how gung-ho you all are for Emma to have to kill her true love.

 

Who said anything about killing? They could have them mutually decide to give up the power which they know will result in Hook dying. The issue isn't how it happens or making it terrible, it's requiring Emma to deal with what happened. In this case, she needs to let go no matter how much it hurts. If someone else comes in and ends Hook, then Emma isn't given the chance to make amends for her actions.

 

 

On another note, which episode was Papa Hook supposed to be in, this next one or the arc finale? We don't really have any spoilers at all, other than his name (which I can't recall off the top of my head) and his existence.

 

It's the finale. I kind of wonder if that actor isn't going to be a bit like Belle's mom with two minutes of screentime. Just enough for it to be a big shock when he's revealed to be Charon.

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think Hook will need to be killed. Once the Dark One power is removed, he will just die. He's dead already, technically. It's like Neal and Gold in Season 3. Emma didn't kill Neal when she separated him from Gold. So the question really is, will Hook need to be forcefully separated or will he give it up himself? I think he will choose to give up the power, even though it means death. Regina might be needed to stab him or whatever to remove it, but he's already dead, so she won't be killing him. I'm fine with it as long as it's his choice and I think it will be. He did not choose to become a Dark One but he will get to choose to die as himself.

 

If someone does have to stab him and Emma just can't do it, then I'd rather it be David. I liked the idea of Regina and Hook being redemption buddies back at the start of Season 3, but it's been too long since they've had any meaningful interaction. However, Regina has kept Hook from hurting himself (even though we now know he wouldn't have been harmed except for maybe when he tried to reach for the sword that he was unaware had his name on it) multiple times this half season and the writers might think that's just great foreshadowing. 

 

 

Had a sudden thought. I'm afraid the writers might use the memory loss plot devise again in 5B, because we know how much they love it. When Emma &co. find Hook in the UW, he may have no idea of who they are. The shades drink from the Lethe soon after arrival right? I can't see Hook willingly drink the waters, but he maybe forced to by Hades or someone else.

I've been thinking this as well. He might forget Emma. It could be like a callback to Hook finding Emma in NYC when she didn't remember him. There's a possibility that he'll be chilling with Milah in the afterlife. I am not really against that as I kind of want everyone to meet Milah because I'm twisted like that. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[regularlyleaded]

Who said anything about killing? They could have them mutually decide to give up the power which they know will result in Hook dying. The issue isn't how it happens or making it terrible, it's requiring Emma to deal with what happened. In this case, she needs to let go no matter how much it hurts. If someone else comes in and ends Hook, then Emma isn't given the chance to make amends for her actions.

 

No you're right. You didn't say anything about killing Hook. I interpreted your comment about Regina being the one to kill Hook instead of Emma cleaning up her own mess as a desire to have Emma kill Hook because there would be some sort of justice in that.

 

It's not like I don't want Emma and Hook to resolve this situation together, because I too am sick of the Alien Vampire Bunnies and the “All Hail Regina, she has saved us!” moments. But I take issue with double standards that this show applies to these characters. Emma having to suffer the consequences for taking extreme actions to save the life of someone she loves when other characters don't pay for actions that have been far and away worse is galling.

 

I'm going to take the rest my response to the "Morality" thread (not sure if that's the right place, but let's just say it is) because it has nothing to do with spoilers.

Edited November 18, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[kitticup]

So I've been thinking....

Scenario A - what I want

For 200 years in A&E time, hook has wanted nothing more then to kill the Dark One. What if he is fighting Rumple and head worm Rumple appears, making killian realize that he becoming just like Crocodile and he doesn't want that and it stops him for killing rumple. Instead he decides to kill the darkness entirely - the true dark one. Once Hook has a mission he is all in and wiling to die for it. He will de-darks Emma by taking the darkness and ends up dying. He is also the one villian that would give up everything for love - his home, power and his life. So maybe he is the one Merlin spoke of as being able to handle the darkness.

Scenario 2 - what I think is A&E scenario

Hook goes full on dark. He doesn't do things half way. So what stops him from killing Rumple is that he wants him (rumple) to suffer like he did. So he decides to crush belle's heart. Emma and others are able to protect belle long enough for her to drive over the county line in Rumple's car. And I think she will turn out to pregnant with Rumple's kid, but we won't know that until she comes back, baby or baby belly in tow.

Hook resurrects the other dark ones proving that when he goes for something he goes all out. He might struggle with himself. Maybe he is able to break free of the darkness hold for a bit. Maybe it's Henry who helps break the hold by reminding hook about who he used to be and a call back to Bae's you're just like my father would be nice. It is long enough for him to stop the darkness and Regina to kill him.

Worst case for me is all of the above but it's Rumole who kills him and now rumple becomes the one to be able to handle the darkness without surcombing to it. Proving once again there is no reason to be good and every reason to be bad.

Edited November 18, 2015 by kitticup

[Serena]

I just saw a theory that Young Hercules (Not played by one of the Ryan's) must've been in love with Young Snow and that's how they know each other. I can't if this is true.

Aww, I think it would be cute. A cute little teenage romance. And finally an example of "First love does not mean True Love!"

[Spartan Girl]

That might be a clever way to go.

I know they are just BTS pics, but I'm still a little disappointed that this Hercules doesn't have a perfect package that packed a pair of pretty pecs.

LOL now I have "Zero to Hero" stuck in my head.

[chrisvee]

I don't think Hook will need to be killed. Once the Dark One power is removed, he will just die. He's dead already, technically.

For me this is a bit of a distinction without a difference. He lives now -- such as it is -- having both his soul and body -- and if someone forcibly stabs him or otherwise removes his life force from his body against his will, it's killing him because he dies. And I'm Emma will feel the same.

I'm not clear that the Excalibur cut will kill him once the Dark One is removed. Was that Emma's original plan? When she made him DO did she think he'd be DO forever and she would break Excalibur to control him? Or was she going to remove the darkness from both of them, put it into Zelena, kill her, and then expect them both to live?

ETA: I'd like to believe they'll go the route of having Hook behave heroically and destroy himself to destroy the darkness but I don't have enough faith in A&E. I think they'll have Emma do it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by chrisvee

[PixiePaws1]

admittedly. ..with strategic editing and a carefully worded voice over those promos can lead you to think something happening on screen for a few seconds can vary wildly from what is actually going on. As much as I don't want to think it I don't think Killian is in anyway playing any kind of con. I think he is fueled by anger and he is furious with Emma but he is not fully Dark since there is the spoiler of what looks like earworm Rumple there during the fight on the ship (& we know that means he hasn't fully embraced the DO powers unless the rules have changed ), I can only imagine how enraged Killian will be to have the Crocodile in his head!! I don't want Emma or anyone to have to kill him. I do think he will be on the brink of killing Rumple and perhaps earworm Rumple egging him on is exactly what he needs to reject the Darkness because giving ANY version of the Crocodile what he wants is something Killian would fight tooth & nail not to do.

Having been reborn as the DO may have healed the Excalibur wound (?) so removing what makes him the DO may not kill him but I can see him taking all.the Darkness from Emma and then doing whatever it is that cuts down the Darkness with Excalibur himself..someone really needs to make it clear exactly how Excalibur is used to do that because there didn't seem to be any indication that Emma had to be stabbed with it when Merlin and Co were watching her start to rejoin the sword.

Edited November 18, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[FierceAfroChick]

I think Earworm Rumpel will be egging Killian on, but RumpelGold will be the one to talk Hook down.  Will probably apologize for killing Milah and go, “See how the Darkness corrupts you?  It was the Darkness that made me kill Milah, blah…blah…blah.”  And then Hook will come to his senses and he and Gold will truly bury the hatchet and maybe he and Gold will start working together to get rid of the Darkness.

[KAOS Agent]

Everyone has been assuming that Merida's ale would be used to contact Hook in the Underworld, but her appearance at Regina's house makes me wonder if they aren't using it to contact Merlin or Nimue. If they get poor information and/or need to resurrect Nimue to solve their Darkness problem, that could lead to the multiple Dark Ones running around in the finale. Or maybe Rumpel is part of things and decides to use this opportunity to get his power back while everyone else decides it's a really bad idea to bring back Nimue.

[ABitOFluff]

admittedly. ..with strategic editing and a carefully worded voice over those promos can lead you to think something happening on screen for a few seconds can vary wildly from what is actually going on.

Funny, I was just having the same thought. Like in last week's promo with Killian telling Emma he loves her no matter what. Then, surprise! Cool, cause I made you a Dark One. This week's line about "I want to hurt you as much as you hurt me"  could have followed something like "Of course I love you, but RIGHT NOW..." It could be exactly what he said, but the powers that be do like to use misdirection in those promos for maximum impact. Who knows.

 

Also, I don't remember seeing any spoilers of DarkKillian and DarkSwan running around Camelot. I have so many different theories of what happened there, but I'm sure they're probably all wrong.

Edited November 18, 2015 by ABitOFluff

[kili]

someone really needs to make it clear exactly how Excalibur is used to do that because there didn't seem to be any indication that Emma had to be stabbed with it when Merlin and Co were watching her start to rejoin the sword.

We are talking about Merlin here. He never lets anybody know what to expect. It could be that Emma would have to stab everybody she loves or even kind of likes before the darkness could be removed, but Merlin wouldn't mention it until it has to be done. Oops.

[YaddaYadda]

Everyone has been assuming that Merida's ale would be used to contact Hook in the Underworld, but her appearance at Regina's house makes me wonder if they aren't using it to contact Merlin or Nimue. If they get poor information and/or need to resurrect Nimue to solve their Darkness problem, that could lead to the multiple Dark Ones running around in the finale. Or maybe Rumpel is part of things and decides to use this opportunity to get his power back while everyone else decides it's a really bad idea to bring back Nimue.

 

Finally, someone else who is thinking what I'm thinking! The only thing is, this manifestation of Dark One!Nimue is the same one as Dark One!Rumple. 

 

If Merlin asked them to find Nimue, it's because he cannot help them with what they need help with. I've really been wondering if Nimue didn't get rid of the darkness (without destroying it since she didn't have access to the sword), retained her magic, and became the Lady of the Lake. Lakes are also portals to the Underworld,

 

Also...Hook's life is tethered to Excalibur. That means in order for him to die, his can't be tethered to it any longer. 

 

If he's dead, dead, dead, in the Underworld, that means Hades has to give him back his soul, and let him go, something he might refuse, because he's Hades, and doesn't wanna lose his peeps.

 

And since Captain Swan mirror Snowing, I think we might be witness to some soul splitting in the future.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe the way to destroy the Darkness is by manifesing it and stabbing it with Excalibur. We have all the previous DOs running around because Hook/Emma lost control of them at some point.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe they let them loose on purpose. Maybe for whatever plan to work, the Dark Ones have to be set free.

 

There's no way Emma doesn't know what the outcome of this will be though. Hook's life is hanging on by a thread, and I'm sure she knows that this ends with his name being erased from Excalibur. The moment that's done, he dies.

 

Emma's lesson, and really, she's the only one who keeps getting taught these harsh, hard to swallow lessons. So it's on par with her writing.

[FierceAfroChick]

Also...Hook's life is tethered to Excalibur. That means in order for him to die, his can't be tethered to it any longer. 

 

If he's dead, dead, dead, in the Underworld, that means Hades has to give him back his soul, and let him go, something he might refuse, because he's Hades, and doesn't wanna lose his peeps.

 

I don't know whether this goes in the nitpick thread or here or somewhere else, but the convoluted rules of death and life and tethering and Dark Oneness are bothering the hell out of me.   I need to go back and rewatch Hook's "death" scene because I'm not sure if he died in that moment or was just unconscious when Emma began the tethering.

From another thread: 

 

 

Emma [to Merlin]: That's what he said ,but it's not true, is it? You told me how powerful I am. Let's use that power. I can use the Promethian flame to release you from Excalibur and then I can use it to tether Hook's life to it instead. It could save him.

 

I know the general consensus is that taking the darkness out of Hook will mean he's dead because he died, but did he really?  How can you tether a life to Excalibur if there's no life in there?   And if he was only dying, not dead, won't that buy them some time to heal him after the darkness is taken out? 

 

And if he was dead...so you die, your body is buried, your soul goes to the UW.   If he's de-darked, where is Hook's dead body then?   Are they gonna keep it on a cold slab until they can talk Hades into giving back his soul?  Or is Hook alive when he's dragged to hell because they do indeed figure out a way to heal him once he's de-darked? 

 

I'm reaching and being really technical and that probably didn't make a lick of sense.  I'm beginning to hate these writers.

Edited November 18, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[mjgchick]

Who do you guys think put the sword back in the stone? I'm thinking either Emma or Merlin.

[FierceAfroChick]

Who do you guys think put the sword back in the stone? I'm thinking either Emma or Merlin.

 

Maybe Hook?  Isn't he running around Camelot for another three weeks before they return to Storybrooke sans memories?

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know whether this goes in the nitpick thread or here or somewhere else, but the convoluted rules of death and life and tethering and Dark Oneness are bothering the hell out of me.   I need to go back and rewatch Hook's "death" scene because I'm not sure if he died in that moment or was just unconscious when Emma began the tethering.

 

I think he was alive, but his life is directly tied to his name being on Excalibur.

 

Who do you guys think put the sword back in the stone? I'm thinking either Emma or Merlin.

I don't think it was Emma. It wouldn't make sense since she spent days trying to get it out of the stone. She had everything she needed to to put the sword back together except for the half that was in the stone.

 

Merlin or even Hook could've done it. If Merlin died, I'm most definitely okay with that. He's been holding the idiot ball since season 4.

[sharky]

Isn't that crazy that he's had the idiot ball since season 4 but only first showed up a few episodes ago? And then is going to be gone again? Whatever.

 

I'm saying Merlin put the sword back in the stone, and I'm saying he did it while he was recording his voice mail. "The Dark Ones found me," are Emma and Hook trying to get the sword so they have control over it. But oops! Merlin put it back in the stone and then perhaps decided to send them all back to Storybrooke so they couldn't get control of it. And then of course, Emma hijacks the curse, erases memories, and does enough to get the sword in her basement. Boom!

[kili]

Merlin put it back in the stone and then perhaps decided to send them all back to Storybrooke so they couldn't get control of it

 

Is it possible that Merlin killed himself to invoke the curse? Crushed his own heart? I know that A&E have said that Emma cast the curse, but they are known to lie. The curse seems to be enacted as soon as one finishes with the heart crushing, so if you loved yourself the most, that might work? Of course, that would be a retcon of when Pan invoked the curse because clearly he loved himself more than Felix.

 

Remember when you used to need a special scroll and a lot of prep work to cast the curse? It took Regina months (she got the scroll while Snowing were on their honeymoon and didn't cast it until Emma was born).  That was the olden days when everything needed to be done by hand. Now you just pick up your curse-in-a-box at 7-11 and crush a handy heart.

 

Maybe the Dark Ones escaped in Camelot and that is why the curse is cast. They've just been chillaxing watching Netflix in the family room of Emma's house until now. When they've finished watching all the "Lost" episodes watch out. They will be especially ragey once they see how the series ends.

 

If Nimue did manage to escape the curse and seperate herself from the Dark One, I bet she was the Brave witch. That lady had a lot of Dark One quirks like making signed deals and taking IOUs.

Edited November 18, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Isn't that crazy that he's had the idiot ball since season 4 but only first showed up a few episodes ago? And then is going to be gone again? Whatever.

 

I'm saying Merlin put the sword back in the stone, and I'm saying he did it while he was recording his voice mail. "The Dark Ones found me," are Emma and Hook trying to get the sword so they have control over it. But oops! Merlin put it back in the stone and then perhaps decided to send them all back to Storybrooke so they couldn't get control of it. And then of course, Emma hijacks the curse, erases memories, and does enough to get the sword in her basement. Boom!

 

I wonder what Emma and Hook's plan would be for the sword though. Are they planning on cutting down Merlin's immortality with it? The broken sword can't hurt him, but a whole sword might.

 

There was something about how Hook will find out it's not Emma he should be angry at. 

 

So who should he be angry with? Merlin? I can see why anyone should be angry with Merlin. He's mislead them, lied, manipulated. No one should be okay with that. Maybe they planned on putting the darkness in Merlin, and then cutting it down with the sword. Merlin would still be alive since he is immortal.

 

And if Merlin cast the curse, whose heart did he use? The person Merlin loves most, he asked the Nevengers to go and find her, so it couldn't be her. 

Arthur? Doubtful.

Lancelot? There's no relationship between the two, and I hope it doesn't come to that, because I'd like for as little WTF moments as possible for the last 2 hours.

 

I don't think Emma cast the curse, but I agree that she might've hijacked it in an effort to keep Hook from finding out what she did, until she figured out a solution. She wasn't planning on telling him that he was a Dark One at all.

Edited November 18, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[oliverwendell]

 

There was something about how Hook will find out it's not Emma he should be angry at.

 

When I read that article my immediate thought was: he's going to find out he should be angry at himself. I think he's going to engage in some serious fuckery in Camelot, and when he finds out about it he will hate himself way more than he hates anyone else, even as the DO.

[Souris]

When I read that article my immediate thought was: he's going to find out he should be angry at himself. I think he's going to engage in some serious fuckery in Camelot, and when he finds out about it he will hate himself way more than he hates anyone else, even as the DO.

 

You know what, that makes total sense.

 

I was thinking about that spell to destroy the light that needs the cries of a newborn. We've been told that Excalibur can cut out lightness or darkness, depending on who wields it. IF IF IF Dark Hook has a plan (and I'm still skeptical because I have to be with TS, TW), then I could see the show making it look like he's planning to destroy the light. But it turns out his plan is to destroy the darkness, and the same spell works for that, too. He could use Excalibur to cut the Darkness out of Emma, take it into himself and then stab himself with Excalibur. It would be like when Rumple stabbed himself and Pan, but this time because the dagger and Excalibur are joined, it destroys the Darkness.

[YaddaYadda]

I think they mean "cut" literally, especially after what happened with Hook during 5x08.

 

Hook was cut with Excalibur and almost died. I think Emma will have to be cut with it to take away the darkness, and her immortality. And Hook will cut himself with it, and since his life is basically holding to nothing, then it ends that way.

 

They break the sword after that because it's way too dangerous as a whole weapon.

[PixiePaws1]

not sure if this goes here...

Emma has the spark...do you think she could melt down the full sword and remake Grail?. That would get rid of the damn sword.

Do you think if she did it would have the same powers?

[HoodlumSheep]

not sure if this goes here...

Emma has the spark...do you think she could melt down the full sword and remake Grail?. That would get rid of the damn sword.

Do you think if she did it would have the same powers?

Maybe she could toss it into the Sorcerer's hat? Bye bye sword. She'd just have to make sure no one tries to take stuff out of the hat.

[YaddaYadda]

not sure if this goes here...

Emma has the spark...do you think she could melt down the full sword and remake Grail?. That would get rid of the damn sword.

Do you think if she did it would have the same powers?

 

The grail is as dangerous as the sword. If it falls in the wrong hands, they can just take a swig, and we're back to square one. If anything, this thing should be completely obliterated. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

If anything, this thing should be completely obliterated.

I'm wondering if we'll ever gets it origin. It seems to be connected to a higher authority, probably one of the gods. Maybe the Hades shenanigans will include a way to destroy it once and for all? Not sure how they calculates against Rumple. I still don't understand how he doesn't have his magic. Regina and Cora didn't need a dagger.

[kili]

Maybe she could toss it into the Sorcerer's hat

 

Didn't they break the hat when they tried to put the black stuff they hoovered out of Rumple into it?

[Souris]

We know the sword gets split again because Rumple cuts his hand with the dagger in BTS pics for 5x11.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Souris

[mjgchick]

Can Merlin channel Nimue like Emma can?

[PixiePaws1]

maybe Killian takes the top half of the sword with his name on it to the UW ...or it is used to force him to go there..

Edited November 18, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[HoodlumSheep]

Didn't they break the hat when they tried to put the black stuff they hoovered out of Rumple into it?

Wait, did the hat break? I thought it just kind of backfired and then Mickey got dark goo'd.

*just watched the clip. I guess it breaks? Or at least, there's a flash and the dark goo is back, but no signs of the hat/box???? I suppose that would equate to being no more.

Edited November 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Dianthus]

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I don't remember...So Belle is in the shop standing right next to Rumple when DO Hook storms in to make his challenge, but she wasn't seen on the Jolly for the fight. Was anyone else there beside Clippy!Rumple? This is a fight between her husband and her friend, but she's too intent on getting the f*ck out of Dodge to tell anyone? I mean, I can understand if DO Hook poofs himself and Rumple away before she could say or do anything at that point, but still. It's also funny to think of DO Hook poofing away magically (given his utter lack of magical ability and newness to DOing) but if he can't do it then that would officially make him the lamest DO ever.

[Free]

It's also funny to think of DO Hook poofing away magically (given his utter lack of magical ability and newness to DOing) but if he can't do it then that would officially make him the lamest DO ever.

 

That would be an accomplishment given how disappointing Dark Swan has been and how Hook as a villain was back in S2 when he kept ending up on he ground.