Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[stealinghome]

As someone who finds romance on shows the least enjoyable part of watching, I hope they don't focus too much on Hook and Emma as a couple. Oddly, I can only tolerate Snow and Charming together romantically.

It's because, of all the things this show writes terribly, romantic relationships may actually be the thing they're the absolute WORST at. Snow and Charming only work because Goodwin and Dallas have crazy chemistry--the chemistry covers the enormous holes in what they're given. Any couple that has less chemistry (read: all of the other couples) can't do the same, so the awful writing shows.

 

I guess I don't think we're going to get too much of anything in these first few eps, unless it's too much pointless running around by Emma and her posse and some bonus Regina angst. This show has a formula.

Oh, I agree. In between 4x01 and 4x11, we're going to get nothing except our protagonists running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Then someone will have some big unearned emotional revelation in 4x11.

 

I've tried to remain optimistic, but the news about ABC running that "Making of Frozen" special has tipped me over into pessimism for this season. It's just so obvious that ABC and Adam&Eddie have no interest in fixing what's wrong with the show. It just frustrates me so.

[Rumsy4]

It's not like I have high hopes for the season (I've been burned two seasons in a row now), but I'm not going to be all gloom and doom. Even with the heavy focus on the Frozen characters, it looks like we are going to get some CS moments. Will/Knave may be grouped with the Charmings and Emma for at least part of the time (and partly with Robin and Marian, perhaps...), and may not have a whole separate storyline.

I will have to disagree that Hook is anything like Belle. The love interests of the main characters (including Charming) will always have a secondary role, but Hook has been developed at least as much as Charming, and in a much shorter time. He already has some separate scenes with Elsa, and it's likely he will continue to have scenes with Henry, Charming, etc.. It will be good to have him interact more with the other characters, but it can't be easy for him to start being best friends with everyone right away after being a loner for so long.

For that matter, none of the characters seem to interact much with anyone outside the core few. Charming hardly has lines with anyone other than Snow, and five lines of dialogue with Emma per season. The main cast is so bloated, that the writers can't fit in important secondaries like Red and Tink anymore. It's a shame...

Edited August 14, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

TVLine:

 

As excited as I am for Once Upon a Time‘s Frozen storyline, I’m curious as to how The Knave (played by Michael Socha) is going to fit in in Storybrooke. Know anything about that? – Sarah
Do I! Just seconds before publishing this week’s Inside Line, I got off the horn with Once creators Adam Horowitz and Eddy Kitsis, the former of which said that The Knave’s “background as Will Scarlett, who was one of the Merry Men and a thief, comes into play very early.” Kitsis then added that for Wonderland fans, “We will be explaining why he’s in town. I can also say that he fits rather nicely into Storybrooke, and his introduction is a really fun one.”

 

Will Once Upon a Time’s Emma go house hunting or will she be living in that loft with Charming and Snow and a crying baby forever? –Shen
“Emma needs her own place, and we’d love for her to see it this year,” Eddy Kitsis agrees. And perhaps to that end, Adam Horowitz notes, “The domestic situation of the Charmings and Emma and Henry and Regina does fit into the early episodes” of Season 4, premiering Sept. 28.

[Jean]

It's the damn useless flashbacks which takes up half or more than half an episode and don't really move story or plot that prevents any real storytelling in the present with all their cast.  And 80% of those flashbacks consist of Woegina whining and snarling and chasing Snow around like Wile E. Coyote. Warner Bros should sue A&E and Disney for ripping off their material.

 

From all the comic-con stuff it sounds like at least a big hunk of the 4A flashbacks will be in Arendelle, so at least that's different. I'm just not sure how that will work with just Rumple as the connection. That could be where Will comes in with his mysterious past.

 

I agree Rumsy that they give Hook far more to do than the other love interests. In fact he gets about as much as Emma does. They're the only couple that the writers are capable of writing as a couple and just about on even playing ground. I don't think they're going to set the world on fire but they're enjoyable as the adventure couple, running around working together like in the S3 finale. It's what Snow and Charming should be and was in S1 but aren't anymore. They might have given Emma, Charming and Will and running around investigating but Hook is also given something to do with Elsa. He's not offscreen twiddling his thumbs.

 

Rumbelle spend more time apart than together and he clearly drives whatever story they're given. Charming only gets something to do when Snow is sitting on the couch offscreen. It's not even worth discussing Mr. Bold and Audacious. My feeling is that it shook out like that because Woegina, Snow and Rumple are really their lead characters. They like to pretend Emma is one but she's more second string, so it makes it easier to write her pairing as equals. Just look at Graham and her. The story was as much his issues as hers. Neal and Emma were pretty equal too.

[KAOS Agent]

To be fair, all of the spoilers that the cast gave out were obvious spoilers that were all things we knew would be stories based on the season finale. No one has any real idea how the Frozen storyline will play out. I mean, we can all guess and given how not shocking their twists are, we'll probably be right, but how the characters and their various arcs will play out in conjunction with that is unknown. Colin can say little things about Captain Swan and Lana can talk a bit about the Robin/Marian/Regina story without really saying much of anything about the overarching story. Hook getting new clothes and Regina contemplating revenge aren't going to spoil casual viewers' enjoyment of the show if they happen to see some interviews from Comic Con or whatever. The only deviation from this closed mouth style is Robert, God bless him, who can spoil the crap out of everything. 

 

I'm not at all interested in the Frozen stuff, so the little character moments are what will determine whether I continue watching. If those moments involve skipping over all of the Charming family issues in lieu of screaming baby shenanigans, this show won't hold me, so I'm hoping for at least one non-Frozen related plot that can keep me interested.

[YaddaYadda]

I didn't know that was a popular desire from CSers. It's funny, most CS fanfics seem to consist of Hook, Emma, and Henry all living together as a family (which probably isn't going to happen anytime soon), not Henry left to the wolves or forced over to Regina's. I've yet to see anyone from any ship want Henry in military school.

 

I do, I do, I do!!!!  But that's because I really just plain dislike Henry.  TV children should be seen, not heard.  Or not seen at all.

[RadioGirl27]

I will have to disagree that Hook is anything like Belle. The love interests of the main characters (including Charming) will always have a secondary role, but Hook has been developed at least as much as Charming, and in a much shorter time. He already has some separate scenes with Elsa, and it's likely he will continue to have scenes with Henry, Charming, etc.. It will be good to have him interact more with the other characters, but it can't be easy for him to start being best friends with everyone right away after being a loner for so long.

 

 

I agree Rumsy that they give Hook far more to do than the other love interests. In fact he gets about as much as Emma does. They're the only couple that the writers are capable of writing as a couple and just about on even playing ground. I don't think they're going to set the world on fire but they're enjoyable as the adventure couple, running around working together like in the S3 finale. It's what Snow and Charming should be and was in S1 but aren't anymore. They might have given Emma, Charming and Will and running around investigating but Hook is also given something to do with Elsa. He's not offscreen twiddling his thumbs.

 

Rumbelle spend more time apart than together and he clearly drives whatever story they're given. Charming only gets something to do when Snow is sitting on the couch offscreen. It's not even worth discussing Mr. Bold and Audacious. My feeling is that it shook out like that because Woegina, Snow and Rumple are really their lead characters. They like to pretend Emma is one but she's more second string, so it makes it easier to write her pairing as equals. Just look at Graham and her. The story was as much his issues as hers. Neal and Emma were pretty equal too.

Ok, maybe comparing Hook with Belle was a bit too much (she is probably the least developed character among the regulars), and probably I should have compared him with Charming. What bothers me, not only here but in general (other tv shows, books, movies), is that, when writers put two characters together, one of them is always reduced to the girlfriend/boyfriend role and stops being a character on his own.

Ok, I don't know if this is exactly a spoiler, but Jennifer Morrison has said this on twitter:

 

The chemistry that hook and Emma have is intense and real. That is not going anywhere. So just calm down folks.

It seems some media had published an article saying she had said Hook and Emma wren't going to last, or something like that.

 

Ok, I have found the articles. They are so funny:

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/once.upon.a.time.season.4.spoilers.emma.hook.not.happy.ending/39585.htm

 

http://www.vcpost.com/articles/25475/20140813/once-upon-a-time-season-4-update-rumbelle-captain-swan-frozen-edward-kitsis-emma-swan-hook.htm

Edited August 14, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

“Emma needs her own place, and we’d love for her to see it this year,” Eddy Kitsis agrees

Then, uhm, write that into your show?

I doubt this is happening in 4a (though I reckon the entirety of 4a will only cover two weeks of time anyway).

[Souris]

Ok, I don't know if this is exactly a spoiler, but Jennifer Morrison has said this on twitter:

It seems some media had published an article saying she had said Hook and Emma wren't going to last, or something like that.

 

I saw her response, but I have no clue what original article people were freaking out about. I feel bad for JMo, she seems to get people freaking out on her more than any other actor on the show. It's bad enough (and generally unwarranted) when it's over something she actually said, let alone if she was misquoted, which it sounds like happened here. I'm still rage-y over the whole incident where the Neal fans lambasted her into apologizing for saying that it would've been hard for Neal to be Emma's happy ending given how he betrayed her.

 

Honestly, people need to take entertainment reporting with a grain of salt, especially internet entertainment reporting. Most of them are hacks who read too much into things and add their own supposition, or simply reword what they found on some other website. I mean, jeez, Kristin with E! reported Colin's jokes about auditioning for the Peter Pan musical and Hook's wardrobe change being an '80s shell suit as if they were actual facts. And other sites picked up on that and reported it.

 

Then, uhm, write that into your show?

I doubt this is happening in 4a (though I reckon the entirety of 4a will only cover two weeks of time anyway).

 

They do that "we'd like to see that on the show" line all the time, as if they have no control over what happens. LOL.

 

This site has a promo pic of Anna and Elsa that I haven't seen before. Looks like the surprise that Elsa had for Anna was a wedding dress. (Maybe their mother's?)

Edited August 14, 2014 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

It doesn't look like Jen was misquoted so much as misinterpreted (I've actually seen the video of the interview these quotes come from). All she said was that because they were TV characters, it wouldn't be total bliss. Which makes sense -- how many TV couples, especially on adventure-type shows (as opposed to domestic-oriented sitcoms), have total bliss? Drama is conflict, so there's going to be conflict, whether it's between the two members of the couple or between the couple and outside forces. Then someone who really should try going to journalism school wrote an article using that quote to say that Emma and Hook wouldn't get a happy ending. Jen said nothing about the ending because she hasn't seen the ending. It hasn't been written yet, unless they're somehow managing to keep secret the massive spoiler that they're killing Hook off.

 

They do that "we'd like to see that on the show" line all the time, as if they have no control over what happens. LOL.

The secret is out! The plot fairies come to them in the night and dictate everything that happens on the show. That explains so much.

[legaleagle53]

Actually, whenever one of them says, "You know, I'd be really pissed if X didn't happen, say, within the next two episodes," I take that as a cute way of saying that X sure as hell will happen within the next two episodes.

 

And by "cute,' I mean that Adam and Eddie are getting cute.  And by "getting cute," I mean "annoying the hell out of me."

Edited August 14, 2014 by legaleagle53

[Jean]

If Emma's getting a new home, I hope Elsa builds her an igloo, as a token of their friendship of course.

[ParadoxLost]

I'm not at all interested in the Frozen stuff, so the little character moments are what will determine whether I continue watching. If those moments involve skipping over all of the Charming family issues in lieu of screaming baby shenanigans, this show won't hold me, so I'm hoping for at least one non-Frozen related plot that can keep me interested.

 

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm marginally reassured that they pointed out in the press release that raising baby Neal doesn't erase the sadness the Charmings feel over not having that opportunity with Emma.

[stealinghome]

@ParadoxLost, I feel the same, and I actually wonder if the show is going to play it as Snow and Charming are actually MORE sad about missing things with Emma because of raising Snowflake. I mean, as much as Snow was all "I want diapers and first steps!" last season, I have to think that raising a child is still a very intellectual thing for Snow and David--they don't really get it yet, you know? They don't really (and can never have) that real parent/child bond with Emma; Snowflake is going to, for all intents and purposes, be their first kid. So I wonder if having those things with Snowflake, having those moments and really experiencing the kinds of things they wanted but didn't get with Emma, will make them sadder because it will drive home what they were deprived of with her (and I realize as I type this that this is absurd, because the writers will never write this much character stuff ever, but let me have my pipe dream).

 

I am, however, pissed that Snowing doesn't have a real storyline but everyone else does. Sigh.

Edited August 15, 2014 by stealinghome

[KAOS Agent]

 

I am, however, pissed that Snowing doesn't have a real storyline but everyone else does. Sigh.

 

I guess i can't fault the writers on this if Ginny has requested a lesser role due to the new baby. Josh doesn't have the physical issues surrounding having a baby, but he may not be real keen to work 16 hour days either. He may want to enjoy being a daddy. Since it seems that they're giving David a separate story (and a non-Snow related friend!), I can see where Snowing won't get their own story outside of the baby. I'm just happy that they may actually show that David has a life outside of Snow. 

[angelwoody]

@ParadoxLost, I feel the same, and I actually wonder if the show is going to play it as Snow and Charming are actually MORE sad about missing things with Emma because of raising Snowflake. I mean, as much as Snow was all "I want diapers and first steps!" last season, I have to think that raising a child is still a very intellectual thing for Snow and David--they don't really get it yet, you know? They don't really (and can never have) that real parent/child bond with Emma; Snowflake is going to, for all intents and purposes, be their first kid. So I wonder if having those things with Snowflake, having those moments and really experiencing the kinds of things they wanted but didn't get with Emma, will make them sadder because it will drive home what they were deprived of with her (and I realize as I type this that this is absurd, because the writers will never write this much character stuff ever, but let me have my pipe dream).

 

I am, however, pissed that Snowing doesn't have a real storyline but everyone else does. Sigh.

What I would love to see on this front is Emma being a big resource and help to Snowing with the baby.  It is weird to type it out, but Snow and Charming's daughter (especially with her fake memories of raising Henry) has more "hands on" experience in caring for a baby than either Snow or Charming.  I would love to see her being able to soothe Snowflake easily and give helpful advice to an exasperated/ exhausted Snow.  It could be a great way for them to bond.

[legaleagle53]

What I would love to see on this front is Emma being a big resource and help to Snowing with the baby.  It is weird to type it out, but Snow and Charming's daughter (especially with her fake memories of raising Henry) has more "hands on" experience in caring for a baby than either Snow or Charming.  I would love to see her being able to soothe Snowflake easily and give helpful advice to an exasperated/ exhausted Snow.  It could be a great way for them to bond.

 

That's a fascinating take on it, and it would indeed be an unusual (and interesting) role reversal to have the child give her parents advice on parenting.  

 

For that matter, it would also be funny for Regina to give parenting advice to Snow and David, since she also has experience with the care and raising of a child from infancy.  Granted, she was a crappy mother to Henry (and she'd have to get over her eternal hatred of his biological family for more than five minutes), but it would still be fascinating to see whether she really does have any true maternal instincts and would attempt to advise Snow and David.

Edited August 15, 2014 by legaleagle53

[ShadowFacts]

I love these ideas for how Snow and David need help with coping with a new baby, but my guess is the writers will go for the cheap twist of having someone unlikely end up as the one with the soothing touch with little Neal.  Like Killian, or Grumpy or even Gold, who does have experience (rusty though) and it is his son's namesake (or alias-sake).

[sharky]

I actually think Grumpy or Hook being the unlikely baby whisperer would be adorable. I'm really not a 12-year-old girl or a writer for this show! But seriously, for Hook especially it may be a nice way for him to connect back to Neal Version 1.0, especially now that he also has this relationship developing with Henry.

 

Also making the rounds on tumblr right now is a report from someone who has seen Colin in his new costume and explained to her friend, "I think you're going to die in episode 4! ... Black leather jacket and all. #hot" Again, sounds totally adorable and I'm not a 12-year-old girl.

 

What have you done to me, show??!?!?!?!?!?

[Curio]

Also making the rounds on tumblr right now is a report from someone who has seen Colin in his new costume and explained to her friend, "I think you're going to die in episode 4! ... Black leather jacket and all. #hot

Come on, tumblr! Pictures or it didn't happen.

 

I'm going to be refreshing my Internet all day at work, aren't I?

Sounds like the person who saw it works on set so I think it's unlikely they'd leak photos.

Well that's no fun. Edited August 15, 2014 by Curio

[retrograde]

Come on, tumblr! Pictures or it didn't happen.

I'm going to be refreshing my Internet all day at work, aren't I?

Sounds like the person who saw it works on set so I think it's unlikely they'd leak photos.

[Amerilla]

This is the problem with using LobotomySnow as the prop for Zelena getting in close to the Magical Snowflake: we're assuming she's going to be a clueless, bumbling new mother who needs help from Some Random Character. Well done, Writers!

 

If they do go the "clueless new mom" route and I had to guess, they'd go with Regina - because having the woman who stole Snow's chance to raise her own newborn daughter and ended up raising Snow's grandson to end up being the one who shows Snow the parenting ropes would be horrific, but  it's exactly the type of thing A&E would think it was beautiful and meaningful.

 

But seriously, for Hook especially it may be a nice way for him to connect back to Neal Version 1.0, especially now that he also has this relationship developing with Henry.

 

 

Nothing would surprise me at this point, but I have to say: between giving a 14-year old over to a bunch of psychopaths for rejecting his proffer of love and teaching Henry life-lessons like "cheating is great as long as you don't get caught," I don't see Hook as being some sort of natural father figure. Making him a "baby whisperer" would cause ME to spit up. Or at least spit at something.

 

On a slightly related note: how does Cap'n Cobra play out if Henry gets closer to Rumpel, as Henry spoilers have been hinting for the last couple of weeks? That's probably going to be the foundation of Henry as Nealfire 2.0 in the lives of those two characters, because there's no way Gold is going to be keen on Henry being parented by Hook.

[Souris]

Sounds like the person who saw it works on set so I think it's unlikely they'd leak photos.

 

Given that the person who posted the info posted a screengrab with her friend's name in it, I fear somebody is going to get in trouble or fired if she shares a picture. Somebody with a tumblr account needs to tell that person to blur out her friend's name! Though at this point, that cat is out of the bag.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Souris

[Kaw912]

Nothing would surprise me at this point, but I have to say: between giving a 14-year old over to a bunch of psychopaths for rejecting his proffer of love and teaching Henry life-lessons like "cheating is great as long as you don't get caught," I don't see Hook as being some sort of natural father figure. Making him a "baby whisperer" would cause ME to spit up. Or at least spit at something.

On a slightly related note: how does Cap'n Cobra play out if Henry gets closer to Rumpel, as Henry spoilers have been hinting for the last couple of weeks? That's probably going to be the foundation of Henry as Nealfire 2.0 in the lives of those two characters, because there's no way Gold is going to be keen on Henry being parented by Hook.

First, I will start by saying that I don't really see Hook playing "Baby Whisperer." It would be just too cutesie and cheesy, and in my opinion not consistent with his character. Of course, nothing these writers do would shock me at this point.

However, with regard to any opinion that Gold might have regarding Henry's parenting, I have two words: SCREW HIM. He has shown no desire to connect with Henry as his grandfather since he learned of their blood relationship. He made an offhand, interrupted attempt at killing the boy at one point so he couldn't be his "undoing." Oh, and let's not forgot, he KILLED HENRY'S GRANDMOTHER. If Henry in Season Four demonstrates a desire to have a relationship with Gold as a way of feeling connected with his paternal line, Gold/Rumple (does anyone on the show actually call him my Gold anymore?) would be extremely fortunate, but it should have no bearing on any actual or potential relationship Henry might have with Hook. I don't see where Gold gets to have any say in Henry's upbringing. Emma is his mother, Regina is his adoptive mother. They call the shots.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Kaw912

[retrograde]

Given that the person who posted the info posted a screengrab with her friend's name in it, I fear somebody is going to get in trouble or fired if she shares a picture. Somebody with a tumblr account needs to tell that person to blur out her friend's name! Though at this point, that cat is out of the bag.

Yeah, though I guess all she really revealed is which episode the change happens - the leather jacket part was already known (and a bit of a no brainer anyway). Assuming the info about two days of filming in Steveston next week is accurate, I would guess we'll see it soon enough anyway (unless he isn't in those scenes or he doesn't have the new duds yet in them; actually the latter situation would be hilarious).

[Souris]

Yeah, I expect we'll see the new outfit next week -- if they're filming two days, surely Hook will be there at some point. I don't think she's revealed anything major at this point, but from now on, any spoilers or pics she posts are going to be linked to that person on-set. Which could be trouble for that person.

 

As for Henry hanging out with Rumple, I wouldn't expect Hook to be too happy about that. They may have "buried the hatchet" and Hook really has no say in that if Emma is OK with it, but given Hook's past with Bae and the fact that he really does care about Henry, I'd expect him to be concerned about Rumple being a bad influence. Frankly, everybody should have some concerns about that.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Souris

[ShadowFacts]

 

I don't see where Gold gets to have any say in Henry's upbringing. Emma is his mother, Regina is his adoptive mother. They call the shots.

 

If Henry does start to work in the shop and begin a relationship with his granddaddy, I don't think Gold would necessarily be heavy-handed in calling any shots regarding his upbringing.  He would be more subtle than that.  It actually makes sense that they would be gravitating toward each other since Neal's death.  The question is how much has Gold learned over these hundreds of years and the fiasco his quest for his son turned into.  Will he be a positive influence on a fatherless kid entering tumultuous years?  Not bloody likely, as Gold or Killian or Will might say.

[l star]

I would be very surprised if Snow and Regina didn't bond over Snowflake. Regardless of rationality, they have a bond that has lasted a long time through a lot of bad without breaking. At the end of last season, they had some of their nicest moments of the series. Add in that neither of them seem to be too involved in the Frozen storyline, Regina has her triangle drama and getting Henry back while Snow is dealing with Snowflake, and Regina does have experience raising a baby, and I'm expecting and actually looking forward to some Snow/Regina time. They are one of my favorite relationships on the show though because I find them very interesting. I think the actresses play well off each other.

 

Why would Gold have anything to do with raising Henry? Maybe this is just my hope, but I am thinking this will be Henry's version of teenage rebellion. I don't see any way that Regina, Emma, Hook or the Charmings will be happy he's spending time with Gold. With everything going on and the lost year from last season, I think he is going to slip through the cracks and guilt trip his way past any obstacle.

 

Seeing all the photos of Elizabeth Mitchell have made me SO excited for her part of this storyline. The Oz storyline was stupid but Rebecca Mader was a lot of fun as Zelena. I'm hoping for the same from Mitchell. She looks like she's made of sunshine but from her past roles, I know she makes an awesome duplicitous ice queen.

[Souris]

Adam Horowitz on the show's timeline and whether the Frozen characters are related to anybody here.

[stealinghome]

Honestly, given that they apparently have no second thoughts about letting Henry hang out with "redeemed" mass murderer/rapist/destroyer and enslaver of an entire civilization Regina, I'm really not sure the Charmings--or ESPECIALLY Regina--have a leg to stand on with objecting to Henry and Rumpel hanging out, given that right now they don't know about the dagger switch/Zelena murder. Once they find out about that, then yeah, but before then? Rumpel is really no better or worse than Regina in their eyes right now.

Edited August 15, 2014 by stealinghome

[InsertWordHere]

 

As Horowitz explains, Once Upon a Time “occurs in a semblance of real time,” starting with Emma Swan’s Oct 23, 2011 birthday aka the series premiere. With Season 2 encompassing less than a year, and even factoring in Season 3’s midseason time jump, “We calculated that we are now living in the early part of 2013,” Horowitz notes. Meaning, Henry not only couldn’t have seen Frozen yet, but its first teaser trailer won’t hit the Storybrooke Cinema for months.

Even my lowest estimates for time passage put the show in the Fall of 2013 before Frozen was released. How, how is Henry 12 even if he's rounding up, if Emma and Neal didn't meet until 2001? Even if they met in January and he was conceived right away.

[retrograde]

I'm having trouble reconciling Elizabeth Mitchell's character with either the ice queen OR the mum.

If it was the former, what, this powerful magic user has just been chilling (boom boom) in Storybrooke all this time with all this magical shit going on and she never reared her head? Just content to put her powers towards making desserts?

If it's the latter, it only works if she was shipwrecked JUST before the curse. Otherwise why didn't she ... send a carrier pigeon or whatever saying she was ok? And even then, what did she do in the missing year?

I'm leaning toward the mom thing just because we know the season opens with a regal woman being shipwrecked. But I don't know how it's gonna fit.

[RadioGirl27]

So, who in Storybrooke will wind up having family ties to Elsa, Anna or any of the other Frozen visitors?

In a word: nobody. (Cue many sighs of relief.) “We will go on record as saying that we are not going to reveal that, for example, Elsa is somebody’s sister,” Horowitz makes clear.

So, this means Elizabeth Mitchell is not playing Elsa's mom but the real Snow Queen? Because it looks like she is already living in Storybrooke.

 

I'm having trouble reconciling Elizabeth Mitchell's character with either the ice queen OR the mum.

If it was the former, what, this powerful magic user has just been chilling (boom boom) in Storybrooke all this time with all this magical shit going on and she never reared her head? Just content to put her powers towards making desserts?

Maybe she has just arrived to Storybrooke, like Will. Or maybe her presence is a consequence of Emma and Hook's little adventure in the past. Maybe they changed the timeline after all. I will prefer the first option, that she has just arrived and Will is following her because of something she did in Wonderland. But the second option is there. I would hate it, but with this writting team you never now.

Edited August 15, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[stealinghome]

So, this means Elizabeth Mitchell is not playing Elsa's mom but the real Snow Queen? Because it looks like she is already living in Storybrooke.

That's not how I would read the answer.  I took Horowitz to be saying only that none of the Frozen characters will be related to the core Once cast.

[RadioGirl27]

That's not how I would read the answer.  I took Horowitz to be saying only that none of the Frozen characters will be related to the core Once cast.

Yeah, probably. I just think she is the Snow Queen for three reasons. First, because I don't think Disney is going to let them change things too much, and bringing the dead mother back to life is a big change. Second, because A&E like their twists, so having the original Snow Queen and Elsa together in the same show would be totally up their alley. Finally, because they love villians, so I don't think we are going to have a half season only dealing with romantic and family stuff, without a real threat. It would be wonderful, but it's not what this show has been for the last three years.

Edited August 15, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Apparently the shirt Hook was wearing under his new leather jacket is blue. That should make his eyes pop!

 

(I'll laugh if it's just Colin in his own clothes on set.)

[Kaw912]

Apparently the shirt Hook was wearing under his new leather jacket is blue. That should make his eyes pop!

 

(I'll laugh if it's just Colin in his own clothes on set.)

Except that Colin doesn't typically wear a black leather motorcycle jacket IRL based on pics that I've seen. He seems to tend towards plaid flannel button-down shirts and blue jeans off-set, sometimes plain solid color t-shirts in summer. And, it's really disturbing to me, who is turning forty next month, that I know this.

[Jean]

Elsa's not related to anyone in Storybrook? Hallelujah.  If there was ever a sign that A&E are being kept on a tight leash this would be it. But this also means EM's character is undoubtedly related to someone to make up for it.

 

I don't know if Disney would let them make Anna/Elsa's mom evil and since so far 4A seems to be without a "big bad" it seems obvious that EM's character whoever she is, is the big bad. They wouldn't give her a throwaway role. I think she's even better than Mader. I also don't think they would make Elsa's mom "evil" but really a victim ala Woegina in the way A&E define those words in their warped way. She would have to be really misunderstood and not just lip service.  ABC pres Paul Lee said John Lasseter visited the set.  Now I don't know how involved he is cause I think a bigwig like him would be too busy to micromanage a mediocre TV show.  I do hope some underling of his is closely involved because at least we know he and his team have a better understanding of the words evil, villain, misunderstood, victim etc. than A&E do.

 

I'm curious to see if there's going to be a noticeable difference in the Elsa/Frozen story from the rest of the 4A stories or the ones we've gotten in the past. Does anyone think the Arendelle flashbacks are going to be like S1 flashbacks? Where the flashbacks will all lead up to how and why Elsa got urned and whatever happened to Anna and Kristoff? I'm thinking the twist is EM's character did it and not really Rumple.

[Souris]

More tidbits:

 

The date takes place in Ep 4. There was a lot of green screen. (I bet the date gets interrupted with some hullabaloo.) Robert Carlyle was also on set.

 

Except that Colin doesn't typically wear a black leather motorcycle jacket IRL based on pics that I've seen. He seems to tend towards plaid flannel button-down shirts and blue jeans off-set, sometimes plain solid color t-shirts in summer. And, it's really disturbing to me, who is turning forty next month, that I know this.

 

I didn't really think it was just Colin's clothes. Certainly not a leather jacket if Vancouver's weather is as warm as ours is today! Just that it would amuse me if it was, given all the tizzy. :)

 

I also think EM's character is going to have to be the Big Bad, because I can't see them going without one. Though that would be nice for a change.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Souris

[RadioGirl27]

I'm not sure of how I feel about the change of clothes for the date. If it's his idea and he does it alone, great. If someone like Snow or Henry suggest it to him or help him, then it would be too cheesy and I would hate it.

But, leather motorcycle jacket and skinny jeans :-)

Edited August 15, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Spoiler talk from EW:

 

Anything on Hook and Emma on Once Upon a Time? —Jessica
Hook and Emma might’ve ended things on a good note last season, but as we all know by now, nothing’s simple in Storybrooke. Colin O’Donoghue revealed that season 4 picks up right where we left off, which means that “the relationship is still very very complicated and they both have to sort of figure out who they are and how they can make it work if they’re going to make it work,” he said. “Hook is still a pirate at heart even though he very much cares for Emma and really has strong feelings for her, that point being who he is will sort of complicate things. And in the same way, I think with Emma, she’s got her own walls that she needs to break down and figure out if she’s able to feel again and love again. It’s going to be complicated. It’s not going to be plain sailing. Excuse the pun. You know what I mean.” And about Hook’s bad boy side? “You might see a little bit of that,” O’Donoghue teased. “I think people will be happy with his development in this season and they can expect to see a little bit of the pirate back, I think.”

 

Any scoop on The Knave’s arrival to Storybrooke on Once Upon a Time? —Charlee
I asked O’Donoghue if he was at all worried about The Knave stealing any of Hook’s “stud thunder” and he didn’t seem too worried. “I think that The Knave and Hook are very different characters. I think Michael [socha] is fantastic, and I think he’s a great addition to Once Upon a Time. Obviously, in Wonderland he was fantastic. I’m excited to see how he’ll interact with the characters from Once Upon a Time and with Hook.” O’Donoghue added: “Maybe they can have a dual, a stud-thunder duel.”

Edited August 15, 2014 by Souris

[ParadoxLost]

And now I'm never going to be able to see Knave and Hook in a scene without picturing a stud thunder duel.  There are horses and jousting and ripped shirts.

Edited August 15, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[retrograde]

I know Colin is just offering the talking points he's told to, but I really don't understand all the "it's complicated because he's still a pirate." Both because he managed a pretty long and apparently healthy relationship when he actually WAS a pirate, and given he isn't actually a pirate in any meaningful way now, how does it even interfere anyway? Is he trying to slip phrases like "Shiver me timbers" into pillow talk? Has he acquired a parrot for his shoulder that is interrupting date conversations?

I'm pretty sure he has been given the pirate and bad boy lines to reassure fans that he hasnt gone soft. But... I don't see where it fits into this relationship?

[ParadoxLost]

I know Colin is just offering the talking points he's told to, but I really don't understand all the "it's complicated because he's still a pirate."

 

I think they've forgotten that Emma isn't Snow.  It makes more sense when you forget that Emma isn't a princess in anything but lineage and she wasn't a cop, she was a reformed thief turned bounty hunter.

 

ETA that they also forgot that Snow was ever Bandit Snow

Edited August 15, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[YaddaYadda]

I just thought I'd bring something up, wasn't sure if it should be here or in the Speculation without spoiler thread. 

 

Regarding EM's character...I guess I hate must be bored silly right now, but I was thinking back on episodes and the one that popped in my head was the Jolly Roger, though not memorable.  Mr. Smee, the most throwaway line you can have but that may be significant now.

 

He said he never had anything like Frozen Yogurt before.  I always assumed he got it at Granny's.  Thinking back now...Easter egg?

[RadioGirl27]

I know Colin is just offering the talking points he's told to, but I really don't understand all the "it's complicated because he's still a pirate." Both because he managed a pretty long and apparently healthy relationship when he actually WAS a pirate, and given he isn't actually a pirate in any meaningful way now, how does it even interfere anyway? Is he trying to slip phrases like "Shiver me timbers" into pillow talk? Has he acquired a parrot for his shoulder that is interrupting date conversations?

I'm pretty sure he has been given the pirate and bad boy lines to reassure fans that he hasnt gone soft. But... I don't see where it fits into this relationship?

I've been thinking the same. They gave him an episode, flashback included, about not being able to go back and being who he was before Emma and now him being a pirate is going to be an issue? The lack of consistency in the writing is amazing.

I'm all for the pirate coming back. What I fear is them having Hook act out of character just to create even more angst between him and Emma.

But, on the other hand, they are kissing in episode 3 and going on a date in episode 4. Hey, maybe hestoles the new clothes.

Edited August 15, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

I think they've forgotten that Emma isn't Snow. It makes more sense when you forget that Emma isn't a princess in anything but lineage and she wasn't a cop, she was a reformed thief turned bounty hunter.

ETA that they also forgot that Snow was ever Bandit Snow

Yeah I mean if he's robbing stores and burying the treasure, I can see where she would have a problem but she's clearly not THAT bothered with picking locks and stealing clothes and underage drivers and some unprovoked violence. I think most likely he does something to annoy her, but I bet it's nothing very piratey.

[sharky]

I'm assuming it's Gold related. With Henry working at Gold's shop, I can see how that would bring up some jealousy and some of his former pirate tendencies in relation to Rumple and Milan. After all this Captain Cobra time, perhaps he's just trying to protect Henry in a way that perhaps feeds his former anger and revenge. It would also parallel well to Regina if she backslides a bit as well.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote from a TVLine article:
 

 

As Horowitz explains, Once “occurs in a semblance of real time,” starting with Emma Swan’s Oct 23, 2011 birthday aka the series premiere. With Season 2 encompassing less than a year, and even factoring in Season 3’s midseason time jump, “We calculated that we are now living in the early part of 2013,” Horowitz notes. Meaning, Henry not only couldn’t have seen Frozen (a late-November release) yet, but its first teaser trailer won’t hit the Storybrooke Cinema for months.

 

Argh! That really makes me mad. No jokes about Emma and Henry wanting Elsa to sing Let It Go or the like. You can now throw real world relevance out the window. Frozen is now officially a random fairy tale with no specific significance to the real world characters.

 

I really wish we were time jumping instead of going right where we left off...

Edited August 15, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

Yeah I'm disappointed too. Emma or Henry cheekily telling Elsa to Let it go might've been the highlight of the entire arc. They really need to take themselves less seriously. They obviously can't do serious drama, might as well go all out in campy fun.

As for Hook I don't think it's that deep either. In the dvd commentary Colin said that Hook doesn't feel like a part of Storybrook. (Gee man maybe you shouldn't have tried so hard to convince Emma to stay there then since she felt like you.) So I'm guessing thats the pirate bit. He's never going to be a regualr citizen. I'm sure this is where A&E with their deep fancy metaphors come in with the Hook in modern clothes. And to make it even deeper and more fancy they're probably doing this story to shoehorn in their parallel about Kristoff marrying Anna and not being comfortable in the palace life. "Pirate at heart" = iceman at heart.