Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

Hook might think he lost it in Camelot since he doesn't remember what happened there. Plus Emma kept the flower, why wouldn't she keep the ring. He wouldn't suspect she took it, especially since she's not supposed to know about it.

 

I think the ring belonged to his mother. Nothing's gonna make me change my mind, at least until after 5x08.

 

I can't get over how happy Emma looked. This is how you know the shit's gonna hit the fan fast and hard.

Edited November 6, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KAOS Agent]

Robert Carlyle has said he has no interest in playing a hero, so no way is Rumpel going to change his spots, but I will be so ridiculously pissed if he's back to being the Dark One at the end of this arc. I'm still really interested in what's going down with the sword fight on the Jolly Roger.

 

I don't watch sneak peeks, but I do think that Merlin is playing Hook/Emma to do what he and Nimue couldn't do. I would assume he started by trying it out with Arthur/Guinevere, but that fell apart went Arthur went power mad, so now he's moved on to Hook/Emma. Those two really will sacrifice themselves for the other, so he's got what he wanted.  It really, really sucks that Emma has been paying her whole life to fix everyone else's mistakes. 

[scenicbyway]

Anyone else think Henry is required to write reports for school about his adventures in lieu of being in class? In last night's filming he was dressed for school again with his backpack. Poor kid never makes it to the bus. Also, would Regina and Emma really allow him to go to the Underworld or does he sneak along?

Robert Carlyle has said he has no interest in playing a hero, so no way is Rumpel going to change his spots, but I will be so ridiculously pissed if he's back to being the Dark One at the end of this arc. I'm still really interested in what's going down with the sword fight on the Jolly Roger.

I don't watch sneak peeks, but I do think that Merlin is playing Hook/Emma to do what he and Nimue couldn't do. I would assume he started by trying it out with Arthur/Guinevere, but that fell apart went Arthur went power mad, so now he's moved on to Hook/Emma. Those two really will sacrifice themselves for the other, so he's got what he wanted. It really, really sucks that Emma has been paying her whole life to fix everyone else's mistakes.

But it doesn't work right? Because Merlin and Nimue are no where to be found in the present. I do think he's using Emma but why not take Hook along if he needs to be there too?

Edited November 6, 2015 by scenicbyway

[YaddaYadda]

Robert Carlyle has said he has no interest in playing a hero, so no way is Rumpel going to change his spots, but I will be so ridiculously pissed if he's back to being the Dark One at the end of this arc. I'm still really interested in what's going down with the sword fight on the Jolly Roger.

 

I don't watch sneak peeks, but I do think that Merlin is playing Hook/Emma to do what he and Nimue couldn't do. I would assume he started by trying it out with Arthur/Guinevere, but that fell apart went Arthur went power mad, so now he's moved on to Hook/Emma. Those two really will sacrifice themselves for the other, so he's got what he wanted.  It really, really sucks that Emma has been paying her whole life to fix everyone else's mistakes. 

 

Merlin called Arthur his "great hope". What was he hoping or thinking Arthur was going to achieve?

 

I also think Merlin is using Emma and Hook to his own end. I still think the reason he didn't destroy the Dark One when he had the chance was because he saw that he wasn't supposed to. 

 

Hooks reaction in the first sneak peek was exactly the same one Arthur had when Merlin came out of the tree. Merlin speaks in riddles and half truths. I think both men have a point.

[Rumsy4]

 

Robert Carlyle has said he has no interest in playing a hero, so no way is Rumpel going to change his spots

 

I don't know if I would place so much importance on this quote. I know RC is not really interested in playing Rumple as a good guy, but there comes a time in every show where they need to start wrapping things up for character arcs. It would be a retread if he becomes the Dark One again, not to mention making the Dark Swan arc a pointless exercise. But who knows with this show...

[YaddaYadda]

Well, Rumple doesn't have his cane, so either they fixed his foot magically, or he's back to being the Dark One. I remember Rumple saying that he didn't wanna fix his leg magically as a reminder of the man he used to be or something. So I don't know what explanation there is. Plus he had the dagger in 5x11 BTS. 

[KAOS Agent]

Belle's disappearance seems to lend some credibility to Rumpel not remaining a "hero" for long too. I don't think good guy Rumpel would be particularly interesting anyway. And his attitude post pulling Excalibur was really, really arrogant, so he's totally not Hero!Rumpel for the long term.

[YaddaYadda]

And his attitude post pulling Excalibur was really, really arrogant, so he's totally not Hero!Rumpel for the long term.

 

I'm pretty sure A&E mentioned something about this half season being about hubris as well. That was a nice display on Rumple's part. 

 

Besides, heroes are supposed to be humble, not arrogant. 

[retrograde]

I don't think Robert Carlyle really gets a say in what happens to his character -- he is under contract. But I do think he might be dark again -- it seems like he was doing some blood magic and it could also be the reason Belle seems to have bailed.

[mjgchick]

Emma being a fan of The Spinners doesn't surprise me for some reason. Its a shame the technology is stuck in the mid 90s. Emma's probably the only person who knows about Napster and the likes.

[LizaD]

I don't think the writers want Rump as a good person though. They don't know what to do with a good Rump. An evil Rump is their main plot driver, sucky as it may be. I mean they went out of their way to do Head!Imp Rump even though it makes zero sense, so that says something. I think we'll know exactly how much "say" Robert has at the end of the series. He flat out said he didn't want a happy ending for Rump and yet these writers are dead set on some fluffy sappy happy ending for everyone I think. I'm positive he'll get some kind of magic powers back at the end of this arc, especially with Hades and Underworld coming. Can't see them passing up the opportunity for Hades vs Rump and we all know Rump spends the majority of his time with the villain of the hour, even with a half-assed villain like DS.

This show lives and breathes useless retreads, see the millionth amnesia plots.

If I wasn't convinced of Hook "dying" before, that sneak pretty much sealed it. Subtle they are not. That random ring of anvil was so huge, it was like getting crushed under a whale. And once again the fact that entire plot points could be figured out with blurry pictures of a ring and plaid pants amazes me.

[Rumsy4]

Sudden thought: we haven't seen Merlin in any of the bts/filming pictures past this episode. It could be RIP Merlin in 5.07. It would be a sad waste of a charismatic actor, but Merlin is not really needed for the plot once he tells Emma how to reforge Excalibur. 

 

This is probably the episode where Emma finds out the price for getting rid of the Darkness. That would make her angry and betrayed about Merlin. When Emma channels the first DO, maybe she lets that original DO take over and either kills or re-trees Merlin. Another possibility is DS imprisons Merlin. That way, she could channel Nimue and use his heart to cast the Dark Curse. :-/

[YaddaYadda]

Merlin is not really needed for the plot once he tells Emma how to reforge Excalibur.

 

Merlin is not needed because he served his purpose, which is to introduce Nimue. I think that much was clear how last episode ended. Their story is supposed to have ramifications, and impact the gang. In what way remains to be seen, but I'm assuming it's not a positive impact.

 

I'm guessing Emma and Merlin fail at bringing back the flame/spark with them, so technically, they wouldn't even be able to reforge Excalibur, unless Merlin isn't telling the whole truth, which I'm pretty sure he isn't.

Edited November 6, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[PixiePaws1]

does anyone get the vibe this could be the last time Emma sees Killian in a 'live' in Camelot?

[scenicbyway]

What I don't understand about the ring is if Killian really thinks it's kept him safe and the speculation is that it belonged to his dad, why didn't it keep his dad safe when he owned it?

does anyone get the vibe this could be the last time Emma sees Killian in a 'live' in Camelot?

I think the curse is cast before Nimue or Emma can kill him. Or he can sacrifice himself. Once Emma figures out the price, she won't go through with it but Nimue will try.

[Shanna Marie]

Wow, I spend the day driving, then the Internet is out when I get to the hotel, and what do I miss? I swear, they post the best stuff when I'm offline. But the WiFi is back, and I got to see the sneak peek.

 

Though I lose all obsession points because I couldn't begin to tell you what stuff Hook generally has around his neck. It's always seemed to me like he has so much jewelry that I wouldn't notice one more or less piece. He could have had a dozen rings all this time, along with the other pendants/charms/amulets, without me noticing anything other than "jewelry."

 

Does anyone else get "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" running through their head when you read "Nimue"?

[Rumsy4]

What I don't understand about the ring is if Killian really thinks it's kept him safe and the speculation is that it belonged to his dad, why didn't it keep his dad safe when he owned it?

 

That's making a lot of assumptions though. First we don't know w​ho gave Hook the Ring. If it was his dad, his dad seems to be alive/immortal. Maybe Hook's mom or dad simply gave him the ring one day, the way Hook gives it to Emma. 

 

ETA: Also, this is probably an unpopular opinion. But I don't like the idea that Hell looks like an undead version of Storybrooke. Why should the UW look like Storybrooke? I feel like they could have just shot it at night in the locations they typically use for the Enchanted Forest scenes, especially if they are able to rescue Hook and come back to Sb in one episode. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

I see Hades is a fan of warm-colored lighting.

[retrograde]

Emma still had the ring necklace in filming yesterday.

[Dianthus]

legaleagle53, on 05 Nov 2015 - 1:36 PM, said:legaleagle53, on 05 Nov 2015 - 1:36 PM, said:

After seeing that sneak preview, I have to wonder what the Swan Queen shippers are doing today.

Gnashing their teeth and rending their garments? Weeping bitter tears? Bashing Hook for whatever transgression(s) over which they can work up the most poutrage? Sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting "La-la-la, I can't hear you!" at full volume? I'm leaning towards the latter myself. Delusional I tells ya.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Dianthus

[legaleagle53]

Gnashing their teeth and rending their garments? Weeping bitter tears? Bashing Hook for whatever transgression(s) over which they can work up the most poutrage? Sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting "La-la-la, I can't hear you!" at full volume? I'm leaning towards the latter myself. Delusional I tells ya.

 

"Poutrage"?  I love it, and I am so stealing it!  :)

[Dianthus]

Enjoy! I stole it myself (from Wonkette, maybe?)

 

ETA: It's a pity Emma can't find time to introduce Hook to some classic rock tunes. Movie nights and musical history, that's what I like to imagine for them. BttF would be a good entry point. Dirty Dancing, La Bamba, Help!, any/all of those cheesy Elvis movies, Footloose... I could go on and on.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Dianthus

[shipperx]

What I don't understand about the ring is if Killian really thinks it's kept him safe and the speculation is that it belonged to his dad, why didn't it keep his dad safe when he owned it?.

Davy Jones is immortal (usually). Since he carries away dead sailors (by legend), wouldn't it be possible that giving his navy son the ring signifies that Killian gets a pass if death comes for him?

[retrograde]

Who's to say the ring didn't keep his dad safe? Assuming he left the ring with Hook when he abandoned his sons, then it did keep him safe when it was in his hands. 

[InsertWordHere]

If Emma finds out on her quest with Merlin that Hook's life is somehow in danger, she could give the ring back to him in Camelot and then do whatever it is that makes her go dark because Hook's life is still in danger. 

ETA: Also, this is probably an unpopular opinion. But I don't like the idea that Hell looks like an undead version of Storybrooke. Why should the UW look like Storybrooke?  

It depends on how they chose to portray the underworld, but this could be the way Hook sees the Underworld. Storybrooke destroyed and Emma's burned out bug.

[Hookian]

That's making a lot of assumptions though. First we don't know w​ho gave Hook the Ring. If it was his dad, his dad seems to be alive/immortal. Maybe Hook's mom or dad simply gave him the ring one day, the way Hook gives it to Emma. 

 

ETA: Also, this is probably an unpopular opinion. But I don't like the idea that Hell looks like an undead version of Storybrooke. Why should the UW look like Storybrooke? I feel like they could have just shot it at night in the locations they typically use for the Enchanted Forest scenes, especially if they are able to rescue Hook and come back to Sb in one episode. 

 

I personally think it's brilliant that the UW is a burned out version of SB. It shows how sadistic Hades is. He knows these people are coming for Killian so he wants to give them a warm welcome and make them feel at home by giving them home sweet home only in hell. Also it makes a mind game as wel, Hades is a genius.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I personally think it's brilliant that the UW is a burned out version of SB. It shows how sadistic Hades is. He knows these people are coming for Killian so he wants to give them a warm welcome and make them feel at home by giving them home sweet home only in hell. Also it makes a mind game as wel, Hades is a genius.

Or it could be that the UW has no single form, but it's represented by the memories of those who visit. It takes shape based on what you're accustomed to... only more hellish. So Cora might see EF while the others see SB, for example.

Edited November 6, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

What I don't understand about the ring is if Killian really thinks it's kept him safe and the speculation is that it belonged to his dad, why didn't it keep his dad safe when he owned it?

I think it did. I mean, his father had to be "safe" and alive to give it to him... and after he gave up the ring to Killian, whatever happened, happened.

 

I think they do managed to get the "spark" and the Nevengers get Excalibur, but when they're reunited at the end Merlin goes ooops! Little thing, I forgot to tell y'all we also need a little human sacrifice. CLIFFHANGER. Then next episode is the one when Killian jumps off a roof (right?) and he and Dark Swan hold hands, so obviously that's when he finds out what really happened in Camelot and why she went bad (to save him) and forgives her.

[PixiePaws1]

If a soul is tethered to the dagger end it stands to reason the sword end also needs to be tethered to a soul. Perhaps it is a struggle to find the right balance of souls.

[Serena]

I just realized the reason why the writers created a whole new ring for this and didn't use one of the several ones Hook is always wearing. None of those rings probably fit Jen! She's wearing the ring on a chain now, but I'm betting they want to use it as CS's future engagement ring. Hook's rings are probably too big, and they're so clunky they'd look ridiculous on Jen's fingers. So they created a new one that will look good on her.

[YaddaYadda]

What I don't understand about the ring is if Killian really thinks it's kept him safe and the speculation is that it belonged to his dad, why didn't it keep his dad safe when he owned it?

 

 

I don't think the ring belonged to his dad. Yesterday, I thought the ring would've belonged to his mother, and my friend completely sold me on it.

 

Snowing and Captain Swan parallel each other. Snow's ring belonged to Ruth, David's mother. She gave it to him for his new bride. The parallel is there, Emma goes to try the ring on, and stops because Merlin is standing there, creeping up on her with that look on his face.

[YaddaYadda]

Look like Emma is on Charon's boat to the Underworld in the pic Jen tweeted. But why is she wearing a gas mask? Is there literally burning sulphur that's poisonous for the living to breathe in?

 

It's not the first time that mask made it in pics. Ginny had it in 5x11. I thought it was just something they had. Now it might actually be a prop.

[daxx]

Between filming they will wear gas masks to avoid breathing too much of the smoke used on set. Not a problem when you are shooting outdoors but on a set it is. The stuff is nasty to breathe for 12 hours.

[Rumsy4]

I just realized the reason why the writers created a whole new ring for this and didn't use one of the several ones Hook is always wearing. None of those rings probably fit Jen! She's wearing the ring on a chain now, but I'm betting they want to use it as CS's future engagement ring. Hook's rings are probably too big, and they're so clunky they'd look ridiculous on Jen's fingers. So they created a new one that will look good on her.

I agree. But there may be more continuity than we think. Hook wore a similar (same?) ring on his left hand pinky in 4A. The ring was not on the hand when it was lying in Gold's shop (ugh).

We may assume that when Gold vanished the hand again, the ring remained with Hook. I need to go back and watch screenshots to be 100% confident, but I don't think it's a retcon. They planted the ring a whole season before.

[InsertWordHere]

The pinky ring was different. It had more squiggly stuff around the band. 

[YaddaYadda]

But there may be more continuity than we think. Hook wore a similar (same?) ring on his left hand pinky in 4A. The ring was not on the hand when it was lying in Gold's shop (ugh).

 

The ring didn't go in the jar with the hand.

 

I can't believe we're debating a ring! Thanks writers! The way I look at it is simple. There are things Hook might've stolen, might've purchased, like his rings, or whatever. But we also know he's a bit of a hoarder. He kept the robe Bae was wearing when he arrived in Neverland, the cutlass he gave him, the flap from Liam's satchel, and who knows what else.

 

Maybe that ring has a huge sentimental value to him that goes beyond keeping him alive. Maybe he planned on giving it to her all along.

[Mari]

While we're debating the ring, if the ring is spelled somehow, it's always possible that the ring slightly alters size or design to suit the new bearer--especially if it does something the bearer would want to keep secret as an advantage.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

The pinky ring was different. It had more squiggly stuff around the band.

Ah, too bad... I think I'm just going to pretend it's the same ring for the sake if my satisfaction. Like Mari says, it probably changes designs based on whether it's worn or not. ;-)

[Hookian]

Look like Emma is on Charon's boat to the Underworld in the pic Jen tweeted. But why is she wearing a gas mask? Is there literally burning sulphur that's poisonous for the living to breathe in?

 

Maybe that's Charons mask not hers. It's probably everybody on the boat to the UW. Save Killian is gonna be an amazing arc, can't wait. It'll probably last half the season and they do have 12 episodes in the next half.

[daxx]

Mark my words, save Killian will not be a half season arc. He'll be saved by the end of the episode. Besides, I don't want to go that long without Colin on my screen or CS separated.

[Hookian]

Mark my words, save Killian will not be a half season arc. He'll be saved by the end of the episode. Besides, I don't want to go that long without Colin on my screen or CS separated.

How would a save Killian arc mean no Colin on the screen? If anything that would mean Colin is on screen a lot because what do you think he's just gonna be taking a nap or something? He's not gonna be trying to find his own way out of the UW?

 

Also saving him by the end of the episode is pointless, they have to be separated longer than that. Especially to bring in Hercules and Megara.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Hookian

[Rumsy4]

Also saving him by the end of the episode is pointless...

 

When has that ever stopped the writers? They resolve things quickly all the time. Even the supposedly "forever" separation of Emma and Henry from the others did not last until the end of the episode in the S3A finale. At the most, the Nevengers will be in the UW for two episodes. The, Hades is coming to Storybrooke... dun dun dun...

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Hookian]

When has that ever stopped the writers? They resolve things quickly all the time. Even the supposedly "forever" separation of Emma and Henry from the others did not last until the end of the episode in the S3A finale. At the most, the Nevengers will be in the UW for two episodes. The, Hades is coming to Storybrooke... dun dun dun...

 

I expect it will be half UW for a couple of episodes and then half Hades comes to SB for the other half of 5B.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Hookian

[YaddaYadda]

I wonder if Hades comes to Storybrooke to take back what's his. Would he consider Hook to be his? 

[mjgchick]

I wonder if Hades comes to Storybrooke to take back what's his. Would he consider Hook to be his? 

Emma vs Hades? Dark One VS A God? My kind of love triangle tbh.

 

I too think they will be out of UW by the end of either the 100th episode or 101. I think Hades will be coming to SB to troll and get his man back.

[OnceUponAJen]

Hades might consider Hook to be his! I just knew that the UW wasn't going to accept the result of that first Fury attack.

Edited November 6, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Rumsy4]

I just knew that the UW wasn't going to accept the result of that first Fury attack.

 

So, it all goes back to Regina once again. Stop saving her, people! It never leads to any good. ;-)

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

But Hook had nothing to do with the Fury. He was off probably mopping. Wouldn't Hades then want to collect either Robin or Regina? Either way stop saving Regina, nothing good ever comes of it.

[Mari]

But Hook had nothing to do with the Fury. He was off probably mopping. Wouldn't Hades then want to collect either Robin or Regina? .

Maybe he recognizes someone else who just had a lot of bad press because of totally necessary decisions, and decided to make sure to grab a person connected to the evil White family.

[retrograde]

Yeah the masks are for he smoke machine. I'd have to go dig them up, but several fans on set that night noted cast members were wearing them between takes.